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Stefka Bulgaria removed a recent source that says Rajavi is presumed to have died. This is significant information coming from a WP:RS because the article currently merely says it is "unknown" whether he is dead or alive. I also disagree with Stefka's demanding for peer-reviewed sources on this issue. If peer-reviewed sources can be found, great, but otherwise non peer reviewed sources are sufficient.
VR talk 14:36, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
"He disappeared in the 2003 invasion of Iraq and it is not known whether he is still alive.": [1]
"But after the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, he went into hiding."[2]
"wife of PMOI founder Masoud Rajavi, whose whereabouts are unknown"[3]
"Masud Rajavi disappeared shortly after the U.S.-led invasion"[4]
“Just before the Iraq War in 2003, MEK leader Massoud Rajavi disappeared. He has not been seen since, with his wife Maryam taking over his public duties.”NewsWeek
“Massoud Rajavi has not been heard of since the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003."France 24
"Masoud Rajavi's whereabouts have been unknown since 2003"RFERL
"Massoud mysteriously disappeared from the group’s former base in Iraq during the American invasion in 2003."Sunday Times
Massoud disappeared in 2003, believed dead." Source: Jonathan K. Zartman (Editor) (2020). Conflict in the Modern Middle East: An Encyclopedia of Civil War, Revolutions, and Regime Change. ABC-CLIO. p. 209. ISBN 978-1440865022.
Massoud disappeared in 2003, believed dead.
{{
cite book}}
: |author1=
has generic name (
help)Massoud Rajavi (1948‒2015)...Rajavi went into “hiding,” with unconfirmed reports of his death emerging in 2016." Source: Amin Saikal (2019). Iran Rising: The Survival and Future of the Islamic Republic. Princeton University Press. p. 209.
References
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References
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:37, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
Vice regent, I reverted your two edits.
In this edit [4], I don't see why a source from 2011 couldn't be used.
In this edit [5], you are making WP:SYNTH out of WP:UNDUE material. An "unconfirmed report" cannot be used as a source for making the claim that Masoud Rajavi has been reported dead, especially when most sources describe him as only being missing. Fad Ariff ( talk) 11:59, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
According to members of the NCRI, Massoud Rajavi is still alive". It is now 2022, and an 11 year old source can't be used to make claims about the present. I actually wrote this in my edit summary.
"Several thousand Iranian expatriates living in France smuggled shirts and banners into the State de Gerland displaying a photo of Massoud Rajavi, head of an opposition group called the National Council of Resistance."The FIFA World Cup: A History of the Planet's Biggest Sporting Event, 2022, Rowman & Littlefield Publishers , page 232. Iraniangal777 ( talk) 07:19, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
"Rajavi went into "hiding," with unconfirmed reports of his death emerging in 2016"is not the same as a "reported death" (which is what you put in the article, which is editorial synthesis because "unconfirmed reports of his death emerging in 2016" is not a "reported death". If there had been a confirmed reported death, then that’s what the source would say (but it does not say that).
"Masud Rajavi was (and still is) the leader of Mojahedin-e Khalq."Routledge book "Literary Subterfuge and Contemporary Persian Fiction: Who Writes Iran?" from 2019 By Mohammad Mehdi Khorrami.
"The faces of Mujahedin-e-Khalq leaders Massoud and Maryam Rajavi briefly disrupted state TV programming"[1]
"MEK leaders Massoud Rajavi and his wife, Maryam Rajavi"[2]
"Massoud Rajavi - leader of the MEK but has not been seen in public since the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq."Potomac Books publisher "Iran's Revolutionary Guard: The Threat That Grows While America Sleeps" from 2015 by Steven O'hern.
"Opposition to the Iranian regime The People's Mujahidin of Iran (mujahidin e-khalq) Leader: Massoud Rajavi (in exile in France from 1981 to 1986, then in Baghdad)."Harvard University Press book "The Iran-Iraq War" from 2015 by Pierre Razoux.
"The dominant militant force in opposition against the Islamic Republic of Iran was Mujahideen-e-Khalq (MEK). Led by a husband and wife team, Massoud and Maryam Rajavi..."Rowman & Littlefield Publishers book "Historical Dictionary of Islamic Fundamentalism" from 2017 by Mathieu Guidère.
"At the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, the US military briefly bombed MEK camps in Iraq. Massoud Rajavi then disappeared from public life. His fate is unknown. Rumors have suggested that he is either dead, seriously wounded, or under US protections and providing intelligence related to Iran. The MEK spokespeople say he is alive and evading Iranian assassins."The US Army War College Quarterly: Parameters. Volume 38. Number 4. Parameters Winter 2008. " United States-Iranian Relations: The Terrorism Challege" by Gawdat Bahgat
"Crowds waved posters of group leader Maryam Rajavi and founder Massoud Rajavi — not seen since 2003 in Iraq"Arab News 2019
According to members of the NCRI, Massoud Rajavi is still alive". I say no, because it is now 2022 and a source from 2011 can't be used to make claims about the present.
According to Amin Saikal, there were uncomfirmed reports of Rajavi's death in 2016"? I say yes, because Saikal says exactly that in his book. VR talk 12:31, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
References
Iskandar323, I reverted your edit on the basis of WP:NPOV and WP:CHERRYPICK, so do not reinstate it unless the issue has first been resolved in the talk page (see WP:ONUS). The marriage between Maryam and Massoud is already mentioned in this article. There is a detailed section about the MEK going through the ideological revolution in the MEK article. If you’re interested in expanding that information, that’s the section (and article) where to do it (I will expand that section further shortly). Cherrypicking one aspect of the ideological revolution and putting it in this article would be a WP:NPOV fail. Also adding all of the aspects of the ideological revolution to this article would be irrelevant since this is mainly about the MEK (which is where the detailed information about this is already mentioned). Fad Ariff ( talk) 13:01, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
"While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article. Such information should be omitted or presented instead in a different article. The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.") Since I already started a RFC about this same content you are trying to add in a different article [6], then you could now request input from new users through the RFC consensus process for this article here. Fad Ariff ( talk) 13:11, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Fad Ariff You seem to have deleted very old messages, some of them seem to be decade old or so. Why not archive then just deleting which might seem subjective to some other users?
One side note: @
Fad Ariff & @
Iskandar323 both of you seem to be well aware of dispute resolution mechanism including ARE working etc. Continuous slow edit warring too will get noticed at some point of time, why not deescalate a little bit and wait for inputs from new set of users and proper RFC consensus process.
Bookku (
talk)
13:48, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
ParadaJulio: Could you elaborate on your reason for this revert
[7]? You dismissed the changes as simply lacking in constructive value
, but it is not self-evident why these changes would be deemed as unconstructive.
MarioGom (
talk)
17:59, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
This was justified on the basis of the new relationship being "a matter of revolutionary necessityis being observed in the MR page. Relating to
He disappeared during the 2003 invasion of Iraq and it is not known whether he is still alive.in the lead, Iskandar323 please elaborate why you are seeking to change this. ParadaJulio ( talk) 15:05, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Massoud Rajavi article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 120 days
![]() |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Stefka Bulgaria removed a recent source that says Rajavi is presumed to have died. This is significant information coming from a WP:RS because the article currently merely says it is "unknown" whether he is dead or alive. I also disagree with Stefka's demanding for peer-reviewed sources on this issue. If peer-reviewed sources can be found, great, but otherwise non peer reviewed sources are sufficient.
VR talk 14:36, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
"He disappeared in the 2003 invasion of Iraq and it is not known whether he is still alive.": [1]
"But after the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, he went into hiding."[2]
"wife of PMOI founder Masoud Rajavi, whose whereabouts are unknown"[3]
"Masud Rajavi disappeared shortly after the U.S.-led invasion"[4]
“Just before the Iraq War in 2003, MEK leader Massoud Rajavi disappeared. He has not been seen since, with his wife Maryam taking over his public duties.”NewsWeek
“Massoud Rajavi has not been heard of since the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003."France 24
"Masoud Rajavi's whereabouts have been unknown since 2003"RFERL
"Massoud mysteriously disappeared from the group’s former base in Iraq during the American invasion in 2003."Sunday Times
Massoud disappeared in 2003, believed dead." Source: Jonathan K. Zartman (Editor) (2020). Conflict in the Modern Middle East: An Encyclopedia of Civil War, Revolutions, and Regime Change. ABC-CLIO. p. 209. ISBN 978-1440865022.
Massoud disappeared in 2003, believed dead.
{{
cite book}}
: |author1=
has generic name (
help)Massoud Rajavi (1948‒2015)...Rajavi went into “hiding,” with unconfirmed reports of his death emerging in 2016." Source: Amin Saikal (2019). Iran Rising: The Survival and Future of the Islamic Republic. Princeton University Press. p. 209.
References
|
---|
References
|
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:37, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
Vice regent, I reverted your two edits.
In this edit [4], I don't see why a source from 2011 couldn't be used.
In this edit [5], you are making WP:SYNTH out of WP:UNDUE material. An "unconfirmed report" cannot be used as a source for making the claim that Masoud Rajavi has been reported dead, especially when most sources describe him as only being missing. Fad Ariff ( talk) 11:59, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
According to members of the NCRI, Massoud Rajavi is still alive". It is now 2022, and an 11 year old source can't be used to make claims about the present. I actually wrote this in my edit summary.
"Several thousand Iranian expatriates living in France smuggled shirts and banners into the State de Gerland displaying a photo of Massoud Rajavi, head of an opposition group called the National Council of Resistance."The FIFA World Cup: A History of the Planet's Biggest Sporting Event, 2022, Rowman & Littlefield Publishers , page 232. Iraniangal777 ( talk) 07:19, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
"Rajavi went into "hiding," with unconfirmed reports of his death emerging in 2016"is not the same as a "reported death" (which is what you put in the article, which is editorial synthesis because "unconfirmed reports of his death emerging in 2016" is not a "reported death". If there had been a confirmed reported death, then that’s what the source would say (but it does not say that).
"Masud Rajavi was (and still is) the leader of Mojahedin-e Khalq."Routledge book "Literary Subterfuge and Contemporary Persian Fiction: Who Writes Iran?" from 2019 By Mohammad Mehdi Khorrami.
"The faces of Mujahedin-e-Khalq leaders Massoud and Maryam Rajavi briefly disrupted state TV programming"[1]
"MEK leaders Massoud Rajavi and his wife, Maryam Rajavi"[2]
"Massoud Rajavi - leader of the MEK but has not been seen in public since the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq."Potomac Books publisher "Iran's Revolutionary Guard: The Threat That Grows While America Sleeps" from 2015 by Steven O'hern.
"Opposition to the Iranian regime The People's Mujahidin of Iran (mujahidin e-khalq) Leader: Massoud Rajavi (in exile in France from 1981 to 1986, then in Baghdad)."Harvard University Press book "The Iran-Iraq War" from 2015 by Pierre Razoux.
"The dominant militant force in opposition against the Islamic Republic of Iran was Mujahideen-e-Khalq (MEK). Led by a husband and wife team, Massoud and Maryam Rajavi..."Rowman & Littlefield Publishers book "Historical Dictionary of Islamic Fundamentalism" from 2017 by Mathieu Guidère.
"At the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, the US military briefly bombed MEK camps in Iraq. Massoud Rajavi then disappeared from public life. His fate is unknown. Rumors have suggested that he is either dead, seriously wounded, or under US protections and providing intelligence related to Iran. The MEK spokespeople say he is alive and evading Iranian assassins."The US Army War College Quarterly: Parameters. Volume 38. Number 4. Parameters Winter 2008. " United States-Iranian Relations: The Terrorism Challege" by Gawdat Bahgat
"Crowds waved posters of group leader Maryam Rajavi and founder Massoud Rajavi — not seen since 2003 in Iraq"Arab News 2019
According to members of the NCRI, Massoud Rajavi is still alive". I say no, because it is now 2022 and a source from 2011 can't be used to make claims about the present.
According to Amin Saikal, there were uncomfirmed reports of Rajavi's death in 2016"? I say yes, because Saikal says exactly that in his book. VR talk 12:31, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
References
Iskandar323, I reverted your edit on the basis of WP:NPOV and WP:CHERRYPICK, so do not reinstate it unless the issue has first been resolved in the talk page (see WP:ONUS). The marriage between Maryam and Massoud is already mentioned in this article. There is a detailed section about the MEK going through the ideological revolution in the MEK article. If you’re interested in expanding that information, that’s the section (and article) where to do it (I will expand that section further shortly). Cherrypicking one aspect of the ideological revolution and putting it in this article would be a WP:NPOV fail. Also adding all of the aspects of the ideological revolution to this article would be irrelevant since this is mainly about the MEK (which is where the detailed information about this is already mentioned). Fad Ariff ( talk) 13:01, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
"While information must be verifiable for inclusion in an article, not all verifiable information must be included. Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article. Such information should be omitted or presented instead in a different article. The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.") Since I already started a RFC about this same content you are trying to add in a different article [6], then you could now request input from new users through the RFC consensus process for this article here. Fad Ariff ( talk) 13:11, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Fad Ariff You seem to have deleted very old messages, some of them seem to be decade old or so. Why not archive then just deleting which might seem subjective to some other users?
One side note: @
Fad Ariff & @
Iskandar323 both of you seem to be well aware of dispute resolution mechanism including ARE working etc. Continuous slow edit warring too will get noticed at some point of time, why not deescalate a little bit and wait for inputs from new set of users and proper RFC consensus process.
Bookku (
talk)
13:48, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
ParadaJulio: Could you elaborate on your reason for this revert
[7]? You dismissed the changes as simply lacking in constructive value
, but it is not self-evident why these changes would be deemed as unconstructive.
MarioGom (
talk)
17:59, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
This was justified on the basis of the new relationship being "a matter of revolutionary necessityis being observed in the MR page. Relating to
He disappeared during the 2003 invasion of Iraq and it is not known whether he is still alive.in the lead, Iskandar323 please elaborate why you are seeking to change this. ParadaJulio ( talk) 15:05, 13 June 2023 (UTC)