This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Mary didn't "pick" Maximilian--her father and step-mother had been working on him for years as a possible match for her, as well as to keep the French away. Why are you using the 1911 encyclopedia as a reference for this?
Does anyone know where the lady lived about the time when her father died? I am extensively researching her.
The Dutch & Flemish articles have two very good pics which aren't yet on commons. I'm no good on pics - can someone put them there & here? Thanks Johnbod 17:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC) Done now Johnbod 00:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I have a sideboard cabinet purchased from an antique store (originally shipped here to states from Paris) .. with brass pictures on it (3 D). Under Mary and Maximillian's it has their names. It also shows some other ancestors (Durk 1V, and V11). And 4 others. Along with this it shows 2 castles. I cannot read the names, since they have been polished almost off. Does anyone have photo's to the castles where she was born? It shows a 3D picture of Mary and Maximillian exchanging rings...so I assume the two castles are family residences. It also shows family crest over each castle.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mary of Burgundy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:57, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Just because someone is not a trained historian, that does not mean they don't meet the requirements of Wikipedia, which does accept even journalists's works and commentaries. I don't see anywhere the requirement that one must only cite trained historians. If we had a lot of sources on the subject to choose from, and the writer in question happened to have a controversial opinion, I would agree that we should move to a better choice. Van Loo's work definitely has an unorthodox, unacademic structure, but I don't hear anywhere that the basic events he describes are contested. Hans Cools, who is certainly a serious historian, thinks that the work does a good job in providing a Netherlandish/Flemings' take on the stature of its dukes, rather than the more known but propaganda-influenced of French (great!) historians like Jules Michelet, and that it provides good psychological portraits of personalities involved. I think the work is notable enough. -- Deamonpen ( talk) 16:13, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
Why do we have to make this complicate? I did not just simply reverse the other edit - I choose a middle road. My opinion is that we should just change it to "pregnant" without specific details (third time or fourth time; it was likely not one nor the other). In that way, it does not contradict the source given by the article or other sources, nor will it contradict the apparent fact that this could not have been her third child. Deamonpen ( talk) 17:15, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
Under the a portrait painting of Mary of Burgundy it is written “Mary of Burgundy wearing a hennin, portrait possibly painted by Michael Pacher, c. 1490.”
Why on earth is it important to state that Mary of Burgundy is wearing something said to be called an “hennin”? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:9C97:5D01:584F:7A87:56A9:F548 ( talk) 04:02, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
It misbemuddles: “reigned over the Burgundian State, now mainly in France—with the exception of the Duchy of Burgundy returned to the Kingdom of France (1477)—and the Low Countries, from 1477 until her death in a riding accident at the age of 25”
The whole aforshown wording both of and around “now mainly in France” is bemuddling and from what one can eyeball- it is not right to peddle that the aforesaid “Burgundian State” now lies mainly France whatever the percentage of that uncitationed claim.
It is as if to make up some excuse/agenda to write the word “France” as many a times as possible at the beginning of the herein article. Why not also claim said Burgundian State wherever it once lied has spent less time being thought of as France than in it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:9C97:5D01:F5DA:ADA6:7D3B:FDAE ( talk) 22:49, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
I recognize that Mary herself did some masculine posturing in her lifetime. She appears on one of her coins as Dux and not Ducissa. However, moving her from the category of "Duchesses" to "Dukes" (and "Countesses" to "Counts") implies that the term "Duchess" in English cannot imply power or rights possessed by a suo jure ruler. That is simply not right. The article itself calls her "duchess" and modern accounts of her life and deeds call her as such too. Including her in "Dukes of..." categories makes as much sense as including Philip II of Spain in a category called "Queens of England".
A solution is that you might create new categories of Duchesses regnant and Countesses regnant for these territories, and then put her in those categories.
A similar matter has been discussed extensively in Talk:Jadwiga of Poland (Jadwiga or Hedwig was even crowned with a "male" title). She is still "queen".
The move is also degrading towards the consorts of Medieval and Early Modern Europe. Generally, by traditions, they were also considered monarches, sovereigns and co-rulers (unlike modern First ladies and First Gentlemen). There were changes towards the negative in the early modern/modern time period, but at least the style survived. And in both Medieval and Early Modern/Modern time, there were consorts who did the ruling part more than the "natural" rulers. - Deamonpen ( talk) 12:52, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Mary didn't "pick" Maximilian--her father and step-mother had been working on him for years as a possible match for her, as well as to keep the French away. Why are you using the 1911 encyclopedia as a reference for this?
Does anyone know where the lady lived about the time when her father died? I am extensively researching her.
The Dutch & Flemish articles have two very good pics which aren't yet on commons. I'm no good on pics - can someone put them there & here? Thanks Johnbod 17:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC) Done now Johnbod 00:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
I have a sideboard cabinet purchased from an antique store (originally shipped here to states from Paris) .. with brass pictures on it (3 D). Under Mary and Maximillian's it has their names. It also shows some other ancestors (Durk 1V, and V11). And 4 others. Along with this it shows 2 castles. I cannot read the names, since they have been polished almost off. Does anyone have photo's to the castles where she was born? It shows a 3D picture of Mary and Maximillian exchanging rings...so I assume the two castles are family residences. It also shows family crest over each castle.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mary of Burgundy. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:57, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Just because someone is not a trained historian, that does not mean they don't meet the requirements of Wikipedia, which does accept even journalists's works and commentaries. I don't see anywhere the requirement that one must only cite trained historians. If we had a lot of sources on the subject to choose from, and the writer in question happened to have a controversial opinion, I would agree that we should move to a better choice. Van Loo's work definitely has an unorthodox, unacademic structure, but I don't hear anywhere that the basic events he describes are contested. Hans Cools, who is certainly a serious historian, thinks that the work does a good job in providing a Netherlandish/Flemings' take on the stature of its dukes, rather than the more known but propaganda-influenced of French (great!) historians like Jules Michelet, and that it provides good psychological portraits of personalities involved. I think the work is notable enough. -- Deamonpen ( talk) 16:13, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
Why do we have to make this complicate? I did not just simply reverse the other edit - I choose a middle road. My opinion is that we should just change it to "pregnant" without specific details (third time or fourth time; it was likely not one nor the other). In that way, it does not contradict the source given by the article or other sources, nor will it contradict the apparent fact that this could not have been her third child. Deamonpen ( talk) 17:15, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
Under the a portrait painting of Mary of Burgundy it is written “Mary of Burgundy wearing a hennin, portrait possibly painted by Michael Pacher, c. 1490.”
Why on earth is it important to state that Mary of Burgundy is wearing something said to be called an “hennin”? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:9C97:5D01:584F:7A87:56A9:F548 ( talk) 04:02, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
It misbemuddles: “reigned over the Burgundian State, now mainly in France—with the exception of the Duchy of Burgundy returned to the Kingdom of France (1477)—and the Low Countries, from 1477 until her death in a riding accident at the age of 25”
The whole aforshown wording both of and around “now mainly in France” is bemuddling and from what one can eyeball- it is not right to peddle that the aforesaid “Burgundian State” now lies mainly France whatever the percentage of that uncitationed claim.
It is as if to make up some excuse/agenda to write the word “France” as many a times as possible at the beginning of the herein article. Why not also claim said Burgundian State wherever it once lied has spent less time being thought of as France than in it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:9C97:5D01:F5DA:ADA6:7D3B:FDAE ( talk) 22:49, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
I recognize that Mary herself did some masculine posturing in her lifetime. She appears on one of her coins as Dux and not Ducissa. However, moving her from the category of "Duchesses" to "Dukes" (and "Countesses" to "Counts") implies that the term "Duchess" in English cannot imply power or rights possessed by a suo jure ruler. That is simply not right. The article itself calls her "duchess" and modern accounts of her life and deeds call her as such too. Including her in "Dukes of..." categories makes as much sense as including Philip II of Spain in a category called "Queens of England".
A solution is that you might create new categories of Duchesses regnant and Countesses regnant for these territories, and then put her in those categories.
A similar matter has been discussed extensively in Talk:Jadwiga of Poland (Jadwiga or Hedwig was even crowned with a "male" title). She is still "queen".
The move is also degrading towards the consorts of Medieval and Early Modern Europe. Generally, by traditions, they were also considered monarches, sovereigns and co-rulers (unlike modern First ladies and First Gentlemen). There were changes towards the negative in the early modern/modern time period, but at least the style survived. And in both Medieval and Early Modern/Modern time, there were consorts who did the ruling part more than the "natural" rulers. - Deamonpen ( talk) 12:52, 13 September 2022 (UTC)