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Why is "regarded as the most saintly, pious, chaste, and virtuous woman ever" in bold in the intro? I'm changing it because there is no reason it should stand out from the rest of the section. But if there is a good reason given, then it should be bold; I just couldn't think why it is... -- fanturmandos 22:59, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
While this section is certainly interesting reading, it is completely unrelated to the article at hand. The article is about the Virgin Mary in Islam. However, Muhammed's place in Islam is unrelated to that subject as they existed nearly 600 years apart.
The section is also non-sequitor to itself as quickly turns into a treatise on the defintion of Islam and the Muslim faith rather than talk about Mary, Jesus, OR Muhammed.
This is very good material, but it might fit better in more general articles on Islam and comparative religion.
{{rename|Islamic view of Virgin Mary}}
Nobody else?-- Striver 16:32, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Why not name this article to "Islamic view of Mary"? Bless sins ( talk) 20:57, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
That would make more sense. It's not like Virgin is her first name and Mary's her last name. Statalyzer ( talk) 15:12, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
When looking in Commons, I found that this image comes from http://mattstone.blogs.com/photos/christian_art_middle_east/mariam.html and this site says it is christian art of the Middle East, not muslim. So I think it should be removed from this article. -- Amine Brikci N ( talk) 13:16, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I have substituted a Persian miniature for the completely inappropriate European painting. I don't believe anyone can prove the religion of whoever painted it, anyhow it is closer to a Muslim view of the subject. 24.108.37.224 ( talk) 20:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Brothers, brothers, whoever wrote the section of the Birth of Mary. The Qur'an mentions two Marys: Mary the virgin, sister of Aaron, and the Mother of Jesus--pbuh; and the, also blessed Mary, daughter of Imran, sister of the prophets Aaaron and Moses--pbuth, the mother of Zakariya father of Yahya (John the Baptist), and she was married but I think her husband died before the birth of Zakariya or sometime after.
I hope anybody can confirm that, so I can bring some sources and make the needed edits. Thanks AdvertAdam talk 21:04, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
A recent IP edit brought up the issue of Mary's father, from an Islamic point of view. I have reverted those edits because Imram is a disambiguation page which leads to Amram (a subsection under St. Joachim) and they both seem to refer to the same person. Chris Troutman ( talk) 04:50, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
The subject of this article is Mary in Islam, not Mary in secular thought. Therefore her titles are germane to the article. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 13:36, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
This book was written in 1973 by Aziz Kashmiri, and is a source I would like to use. If anyone has read this book please discuss with me the use of the use of this book in fulfilling information for the article. The source is reliable however due to the nature of situation, not widespread. Joseph1100 ( talk) 07:30, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
This is the edit and I see no reason why a highly esteemed author and journalist in Kashmir is not accepted; "According to recent research and discovery, the actual burial place of Mariam is on Mount Murree, near Pindi Point in Pakistan, where during travel with her son Hazrat Immanu'el she encountered ill health." [1] [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joseph1100 ( talk • contribs) 19:30, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
This article seems to carefully skirt around the major issue that calling Mary the "sister of Aaron" and "daughter of Imran" (i.e. Amram, see verse 3:33), means that there's a high likelihood that the Qur'an confuses Mary mother of Jesus with Miriam sister of Moses (two figures who were at least a thousand years apart). AnonMoos ( talk) 17:12, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
I went to the local university library and looked at the 1989 entry "Maryam" in vol. VI of the Encyclopaedia of Islam by A.J. Wensinck and Penelope Johnstone. It has one sentence explaining the idea — "Maryam is called a sister of Hārūn (sura XIX, 29), and the use of these three names ‘Imrān, Hārūn and Maryam, has led to the supposition that the Ḳur’ān does not clearly distinguish between the two Maryams of the Old and New Testament." — and several more pooh-poohing it (which are not all that convincing to me). People differ about how credible such Qur'anic confusion may be, but regardless of such disagreements, it does seem to be prominent enough to be at least mentioned on the Wikipedia article, as Wiqi55 has said above... AnonMoos ( talk) 17:55, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
To editor Oskimua: Please don't confuse Miriam with Mary. They're two different people. Your blanket assertions aren't helping. Chris Troutman ( talk) 10:23, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
It is also common practice in some scholarly works to use the name "Imran" and allow for the inference that it refers to Joachim (to whom it is linked in this article) without mentioning the possible contradiction. However, al-Tabari, who is cited here as an authority with respect to the identity of Mary's mother, also gives the lineage--on the authority of Ibn Ishaq--of Imran (in this case, the literal father of Mary), stating that he is the son of Josiah (7th c. BC). From this point, the genealogy is identical to that of Saint Joseph in the Gospel of Matthew, making Imran (and by extension, Mary) descendants of the Tribe of Judah rather than of the Tribe of Levi (the priestly tribe) for which she was consecrated to the Temple service in Islamic tradition. Therefore, we have yet another contradiction in the Islamic sources, and this is all related in Gabriel Said Reynolds' book, The Qur'an in Its Historical Context ( Routledge) pp. 164-165, wherein he also admits that "many modern scholars" are inclined to identify Imran with the biblical Amram, father of Miriam and Aaron. Though he ultimately dismisses the data and allegorises these names based on a logical non sequitur, this is sufficient to suggest that it deserves some mention, that is, unless we're deliberately trying to push a pro-Islamic bias, of course. ['kɔbɹa] ☠ 01:24, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
I changed most of the words "Mary" to "Maryam", and this was reverted with the comment that the article is named "Mary in Islam". Well of course the article is called "Mary in Islam", because Christians refer to Maryam as either "Mary" or "Maria" in English. If we called it "Maryam in Islam" most people wouldn't know whom it was talking about!
The fact is her name was Maryam. Even in Hebrew, at the time. (Note that the Septuagint refers to "Miriam", the sister of Aaron, as "Maryam", Μαριαμ in Greek letters, showing that this was how the name was pronounced 2000 years ago. Later in Hebrew an "a" in a position like this became an "i", as we see in other names like Midian and Bil`am for Madian and Bal`am.)
The Arabs (as well as the Aramaic speakers) have continued to pronounce her name correctly. Why should we, in an article about how she is viewed in Islam, use the truncated form "Mary" which they (the Muslims) hardly ever use? It smacks of "cultural imperialism", or at least "provincialism".
Eric Kvaalen ( talk) 14:16, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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Why is "regarded as the most saintly, pious, chaste, and virtuous woman ever" in bold in the intro? I'm changing it because there is no reason it should stand out from the rest of the section. But if there is a good reason given, then it should be bold; I just couldn't think why it is... -- fanturmandos 22:59, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
While this section is certainly interesting reading, it is completely unrelated to the article at hand. The article is about the Virgin Mary in Islam. However, Muhammed's place in Islam is unrelated to that subject as they existed nearly 600 years apart.
The section is also non-sequitor to itself as quickly turns into a treatise on the defintion of Islam and the Muslim faith rather than talk about Mary, Jesus, OR Muhammed.
This is very good material, but it might fit better in more general articles on Islam and comparative religion.
{{rename|Islamic view of Virgin Mary}}
Nobody else?-- Striver 16:32, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Why not name this article to "Islamic view of Mary"? Bless sins ( talk) 20:57, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
That would make more sense. It's not like Virgin is her first name and Mary's her last name. Statalyzer ( talk) 15:12, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
When looking in Commons, I found that this image comes from http://mattstone.blogs.com/photos/christian_art_middle_east/mariam.html and this site says it is christian art of the Middle East, not muslim. So I think it should be removed from this article. -- Amine Brikci N ( talk) 13:16, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I have substituted a Persian miniature for the completely inappropriate European painting. I don't believe anyone can prove the religion of whoever painted it, anyhow it is closer to a Muslim view of the subject. 24.108.37.224 ( talk) 20:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
Brothers, brothers, whoever wrote the section of the Birth of Mary. The Qur'an mentions two Marys: Mary the virgin, sister of Aaron, and the Mother of Jesus--pbuh; and the, also blessed Mary, daughter of Imran, sister of the prophets Aaaron and Moses--pbuth, the mother of Zakariya father of Yahya (John the Baptist), and she was married but I think her husband died before the birth of Zakariya or sometime after.
I hope anybody can confirm that, so I can bring some sources and make the needed edits. Thanks AdvertAdam talk 21:04, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
A recent IP edit brought up the issue of Mary's father, from an Islamic point of view. I have reverted those edits because Imram is a disambiguation page which leads to Amram (a subsection under St. Joachim) and they both seem to refer to the same person. Chris Troutman ( talk) 04:50, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
The subject of this article is Mary in Islam, not Mary in secular thought. Therefore her titles are germane to the article. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 13:36, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
This book was written in 1973 by Aziz Kashmiri, and is a source I would like to use. If anyone has read this book please discuss with me the use of the use of this book in fulfilling information for the article. The source is reliable however due to the nature of situation, not widespread. Joseph1100 ( talk) 07:30, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
This is the edit and I see no reason why a highly esteemed author and journalist in Kashmir is not accepted; "According to recent research and discovery, the actual burial place of Mariam is on Mount Murree, near Pindi Point in Pakistan, where during travel with her son Hazrat Immanu'el she encountered ill health." [1] [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joseph1100 ( talk • contribs) 19:30, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
This article seems to carefully skirt around the major issue that calling Mary the "sister of Aaron" and "daughter of Imran" (i.e. Amram, see verse 3:33), means that there's a high likelihood that the Qur'an confuses Mary mother of Jesus with Miriam sister of Moses (two figures who were at least a thousand years apart). AnonMoos ( talk) 17:12, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
I went to the local university library and looked at the 1989 entry "Maryam" in vol. VI of the Encyclopaedia of Islam by A.J. Wensinck and Penelope Johnstone. It has one sentence explaining the idea — "Maryam is called a sister of Hārūn (sura XIX, 29), and the use of these three names ‘Imrān, Hārūn and Maryam, has led to the supposition that the Ḳur’ān does not clearly distinguish between the two Maryams of the Old and New Testament." — and several more pooh-poohing it (which are not all that convincing to me). People differ about how credible such Qur'anic confusion may be, but regardless of such disagreements, it does seem to be prominent enough to be at least mentioned on the Wikipedia article, as Wiqi55 has said above... AnonMoos ( talk) 17:55, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
To editor Oskimua: Please don't confuse Miriam with Mary. They're two different people. Your blanket assertions aren't helping. Chris Troutman ( talk) 10:23, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
It is also common practice in some scholarly works to use the name "Imran" and allow for the inference that it refers to Joachim (to whom it is linked in this article) without mentioning the possible contradiction. However, al-Tabari, who is cited here as an authority with respect to the identity of Mary's mother, also gives the lineage--on the authority of Ibn Ishaq--of Imran (in this case, the literal father of Mary), stating that he is the son of Josiah (7th c. BC). From this point, the genealogy is identical to that of Saint Joseph in the Gospel of Matthew, making Imran (and by extension, Mary) descendants of the Tribe of Judah rather than of the Tribe of Levi (the priestly tribe) for which she was consecrated to the Temple service in Islamic tradition. Therefore, we have yet another contradiction in the Islamic sources, and this is all related in Gabriel Said Reynolds' book, The Qur'an in Its Historical Context ( Routledge) pp. 164-165, wherein he also admits that "many modern scholars" are inclined to identify Imran with the biblical Amram, father of Miriam and Aaron. Though he ultimately dismisses the data and allegorises these names based on a logical non sequitur, this is sufficient to suggest that it deserves some mention, that is, unless we're deliberately trying to push a pro-Islamic bias, of course. ['kɔbɹa] ☠ 01:24, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
I changed most of the words "Mary" to "Maryam", and this was reverted with the comment that the article is named "Mary in Islam". Well of course the article is called "Mary in Islam", because Christians refer to Maryam as either "Mary" or "Maria" in English. If we called it "Maryam in Islam" most people wouldn't know whom it was talking about!
The fact is her name was Maryam. Even in Hebrew, at the time. (Note that the Septuagint refers to "Miriam", the sister of Aaron, as "Maryam", Μαριαμ in Greek letters, showing that this was how the name was pronounced 2000 years ago. Later in Hebrew an "a" in a position like this became an "i", as we see in other names like Midian and Bil`am for Madian and Bal`am.)
The Arabs (as well as the Aramaic speakers) have continued to pronounce her name correctly. Why should we, in an article about how she is viewed in Islam, use the truncated form "Mary" which they (the Muslims) hardly ever use? It smacks of "cultural imperialism", or at least "provincialism".
Eric Kvaalen ( talk) 14:16, 3 April 2018 (UTC)