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The entry that his spouse was "Louise Linant" is absolutely incorrect. He was not married to his sister. The correct entry would be "Ann P. Nickerson". Source: << http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/01/us/for-ex-wife-of-leader-no-wish-for-the-limelight.html>> -XATMO92 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.114.61.107 ( talk) 16:04, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Someone should put up that weird picture of him with the "cult-like" eyes on this page as *the* picture for his entry. Anyone who saw the news story at the time would know what I'm talking about.
The picture in this article is terrifying, I think it should be changed. :-\ -- 72.191.122.214 05:37, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Not rat poison and cyanide. Where it says "He committed suicide with 38 other members in Rancho Santa Fe, California by mixing liquid with rat poisoning and cyanide. " is wrong. The suicide was accomplished by ingestion of phenobarbital (which is a medicine still used to treat certain seizures) mixed with vodka, along with plastic bags secured around their heads to induce asphyxiation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Senhuan ( talk • contribs) 01:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
I wondered about this, since it is inconsistent with the "Heavens Gate" article's description. I didn't know which was right, so I didn't change it. If someone has a good sorce for this, they should change it and cite it. Thanks.
If this blurb from the Bonnie Nettles page is to be believed, then this page should be the redirect instead of Herff Applewhite:
"Bonnie Nettles was co-leader of a group with Herff Applewhite, (Herff never went by the name "Marshall" according to friends and family) and became the leader of what turned into the Heaven's Gate cult after Nettles death."
Either that, or the Bonnie Nettles page should be changed to note the un-cited information.
On the other hand, it might make as much sense to link it to Do or Peep. Since any group that commits mass suicide is insane by definition (either they're insane, or we all are, and we outnumber them), perhaps it's just as well that Wikipedia doesn't call the guy by his preferred name. -- Robertb-dc 23:52, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Too lazy/underqualified to post this [1]
Creepy though, his username? Doe. Everybody mocked him.
The news story given as citation 2 says applewhite pretended to his sister that he was in hospital for heart problems, when in fact the admission was psychiatric, there he met Bonnie. The article then repeats that he was admitted for heart problems? Sounds wrong. Merkinsmum 13:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Hang on, I always heard he was against the castration, but permitted it as a way of making it easier to abstain from sex.
It says in the article about the Heavens Gate Cult that the members drank vodka and took phenobarbital before putting bags over their heads; the Marshall Applewhite article however states under Heavens Gate Suicide that the members drank liquid and took rat poison and possibly cyanide. Which of these is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.122.0.246 ( talk) 21:35, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
The comment about the Level Above Human being equivalent to a mainstream Christian's Heaven is inaccurate. I'm not even sure what the Heaven is that is being referred to ambiguously as mainstream. Regardless, Applewhite clearly describes this Level as both physical and spiritual, in the video at http://www.illuminatiarchives.org/video/heavens-gate-cult-classroom-video-sessions/ Also, why are there so many objectionable phrasings and borderline homophobic language on this discussion? I no longer find the associated page so credible due to language like "was Applewhite a homo?". Dylan Hunt ( talk) 23:43, 26 January 2009 (UTC)Dylan Hunt
I've cleaned this article up considerably (grammar, redundancy, etc.) but it still does not sound all that great. If someone has the time and energy, I think it needs to be rewritten. -- Prewitt81 18:43, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
How could he be sent to Salzburg, Austria, while in military service, if Austria is a neutral and not NATO country. There should be none american military stationing there like for exemple in Germany. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.11.49.236 ( talk) 23:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
The article states: "After his service was up, Applewhite became a college teacher." What does "After his service was up" mean? Religious service? No mention of any service precedes this sentence. Have I run into a Wikipedia Americanism? Alpheus ( talk) 09:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Was Applewhite homosexual? I think I recall reading that somewhere when the Heaven's Gate thing occurred. Didn't he lose a job because he got caught with a boy? I think including this would go a long way to help understanding Applewhite (why he had himself castrated, etc). Was he a self-loathing homosexual? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.153.188 ( talk) 19:25, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
I was always under the impression that he was gay too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.238.74 ( talk) 20:00, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
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An image used in this article, File:Marshall Applewhite.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
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There are several reliable sources that mention Applewhite's sexuality as gay or bisexual:
etcetera. I propose adding to the "Bonnie Nettles" section the following:
In reading some of the above links, though, it occurs to me that some sources attribute a *lot* of the cult's beliefs to Applewhite's suppressing his homosexual urges. There could be a larger section added to the article regarding this subject. Thoughts? -- SatyrTN ( talk / contribs) 01:57, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
I met my wife-to-be at a dorm mixer at the University of Colorado, Boulder, on June 16, 1956. She told me she was in the chorus line for a school production of "Oklahoma." I attended most of the rehearsals and the opening day performance of that show. The lead role of "Curly" was played by Herff Applewhite. At that time he had just turned 25 years old. He was always known as "Herff"--in fact, I didn't know he had a first name until the news articles about the Heaven's Gate suicides came out in 1997. I have, somewhere among my late wife's possessions, a clipping from the student newspaper that appeared the day after the opening of "Oklahoma" (to mixed reviews). It includes a picture with Herff in the lead role. "Reliable citations" were asked for. Is an eyewitness account good enough? Gdthayer ( talk) 17:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
I hit this on request. Here are some comments:
The distinction about whether the cult members was brainwashed is very odd, and ambiguous. What is this saying? Some argue that they were brainwashed, while others say... something that sounds like a definition of brainwashing.
"Lalich speculates that they were willing to follow Applewhite in suicide because they had become totally dependent upon him, and hence were poorly suited for life in his absence.[186] Davis attributes Applewhite's success in convincing his followers to commit suicide to two factors: he isolated them socially and cultivated an attitude of complete religious obedience in them.[187] Applewhite's students had made a long-term commitment to him, and Balch and Taylor infer that this is why his interpretations of events appeared coherent to them.[188]"
I just don't see how this is supposed to be *not* brainwashing.
It's like saying "while some argue that King Kong was a giant simian, others counter that he was merely an enormous gorilla." zadignose ( talk) 05:27, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
I think the article should somehow mention Jonestown in relation to the Heaven's Gate deaths. Something like "...excluding deaths at Jonestown, which are suspected to be either a mass suicide or a mass murder". Brandmeister talk 19:43, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
This anachronistic statement is sourced to Balch & Taylor 2002 p. 210 and Raine 2005, p. 107. I was able to check Balch & Taylor 2002 for the statement "his church did not support same-sex relationships and he was subsequently frustrated by his sexual desires" and found that it did not support the statement. I think it is safe to guess that it will not be found in Raine 2005 either. The societal discussion in the United States about same-sex relationships and church support did not begin until a decade later. This statement appears to be editorial synthesis or original research, however you want to describe it. It would be far more accurate to simply state the historical fact that mainstream religion and/or churches did not support same-sex relationships at that time in U.S. history. Viriditas ( talk) 01:16, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
The media describes the heaven's Gate group as "computer savvy", and they had a website. There's no mention in the article. 98.164.68.28 ( talk) 08:47, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
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The language "failing to return a rental car" is overly soft. The car was STOLEN, despite his repainting of the picture otherwise.
"In 1974, Applewhite and Nettles were thrown into the jail in Brownsville, Tex., charged with stealing a rental car and using stolen credit cards."
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/did-marshall-applewhite-steal-a-car/
"Do told us he and Ti sent a number of letters to the car rental company explaining that they fully intented to pay, though he had no way to pay and were just trusting the next level would help them."
kevinthenerd 05:36, 7 November 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevinthenerd ( talk • contribs)
Where and how and from whom did the receive a large influx of funds? Tyler Basho ( talk) 02:07, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
I believe that this reference should be linked to /info/en/?search=Earthship . The facts that the Applewhite-Nettles dwelling was built in New Mexico of tires and lumber, and called "Earth Ship," can hardly have been coincidental. For the bibliography on this building system see /info/en/?search=Mike_Reynolds_(architect) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.17.179.75 ( talk) 21:04, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
I can't verify the primary source that Applewhite had visions. His writings on his website don't indicate this, and as far as I know, none of the published interviews indicate this either. Mgamernin ( talk) 18:15, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
I can't verify the primary source that the cult was a Star Trek cult either. His writings on his website don't indicate this, and as far as I know, none of the published interviews indicate this either. Ex-cult member Sawyer seems to show in his book that references to Star Trek are uncommon as well. (I also don't see anything in his book about the two being aliens, or anything about them being transformed by aliens. So, I'm really confident in that.) Mgamernin ( talk) 18:15, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
![]() | Marshall Applewhite is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 15, 2014. | |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The entry that his spouse was "Louise Linant" is absolutely incorrect. He was not married to his sister. The correct entry would be "Ann P. Nickerson". Source: << http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/01/us/for-ex-wife-of-leader-no-wish-for-the-limelight.html>> -XATMO92 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.114.61.107 ( talk) 16:04, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Someone should put up that weird picture of him with the "cult-like" eyes on this page as *the* picture for his entry. Anyone who saw the news story at the time would know what I'm talking about.
The picture in this article is terrifying, I think it should be changed. :-\ -- 72.191.122.214 05:37, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Not rat poison and cyanide. Where it says "He committed suicide with 38 other members in Rancho Santa Fe, California by mixing liquid with rat poisoning and cyanide. " is wrong. The suicide was accomplished by ingestion of phenobarbital (which is a medicine still used to treat certain seizures) mixed with vodka, along with plastic bags secured around their heads to induce asphyxiation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Senhuan ( talk • contribs) 01:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
I wondered about this, since it is inconsistent with the "Heavens Gate" article's description. I didn't know which was right, so I didn't change it. If someone has a good sorce for this, they should change it and cite it. Thanks.
If this blurb from the Bonnie Nettles page is to be believed, then this page should be the redirect instead of Herff Applewhite:
"Bonnie Nettles was co-leader of a group with Herff Applewhite, (Herff never went by the name "Marshall" according to friends and family) and became the leader of what turned into the Heaven's Gate cult after Nettles death."
Either that, or the Bonnie Nettles page should be changed to note the un-cited information.
On the other hand, it might make as much sense to link it to Do or Peep. Since any group that commits mass suicide is insane by definition (either they're insane, or we all are, and we outnumber them), perhaps it's just as well that Wikipedia doesn't call the guy by his preferred name. -- Robertb-dc 23:52, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Too lazy/underqualified to post this [1]
Creepy though, his username? Doe. Everybody mocked him.
The news story given as citation 2 says applewhite pretended to his sister that he was in hospital for heart problems, when in fact the admission was psychiatric, there he met Bonnie. The article then repeats that he was admitted for heart problems? Sounds wrong. Merkinsmum 13:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Hang on, I always heard he was against the castration, but permitted it as a way of making it easier to abstain from sex.
It says in the article about the Heavens Gate Cult that the members drank vodka and took phenobarbital before putting bags over their heads; the Marshall Applewhite article however states under Heavens Gate Suicide that the members drank liquid and took rat poison and possibly cyanide. Which of these is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.122.0.246 ( talk) 21:35, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
The comment about the Level Above Human being equivalent to a mainstream Christian's Heaven is inaccurate. I'm not even sure what the Heaven is that is being referred to ambiguously as mainstream. Regardless, Applewhite clearly describes this Level as both physical and spiritual, in the video at http://www.illuminatiarchives.org/video/heavens-gate-cult-classroom-video-sessions/ Also, why are there so many objectionable phrasings and borderline homophobic language on this discussion? I no longer find the associated page so credible due to language like "was Applewhite a homo?". Dylan Hunt ( talk) 23:43, 26 January 2009 (UTC)Dylan Hunt
I've cleaned this article up considerably (grammar, redundancy, etc.) but it still does not sound all that great. If someone has the time and energy, I think it needs to be rewritten. -- Prewitt81 18:43, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
How could he be sent to Salzburg, Austria, while in military service, if Austria is a neutral and not NATO country. There should be none american military stationing there like for exemple in Germany. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.11.49.236 ( talk) 23:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
The article states: "After his service was up, Applewhite became a college teacher." What does "After his service was up" mean? Religious service? No mention of any service precedes this sentence. Have I run into a Wikipedia Americanism? Alpheus ( talk) 09:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Was Applewhite homosexual? I think I recall reading that somewhere when the Heaven's Gate thing occurred. Didn't he lose a job because he got caught with a boy? I think including this would go a long way to help understanding Applewhite (why he had himself castrated, etc). Was he a self-loathing homosexual? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.153.188 ( talk) 19:25, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
I was always under the impression that he was gay too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.185.238.74 ( talk) 20:00, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article, File:Marshall Applewhite.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status
Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 14:37, 16 September 2011 (UTC) |
There are several reliable sources that mention Applewhite's sexuality as gay or bisexual:
etcetera. I propose adding to the "Bonnie Nettles" section the following:
In reading some of the above links, though, it occurs to me that some sources attribute a *lot* of the cult's beliefs to Applewhite's suppressing his homosexual urges. There could be a larger section added to the article regarding this subject. Thoughts? -- SatyrTN ( talk / contribs) 01:57, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
I met my wife-to-be at a dorm mixer at the University of Colorado, Boulder, on June 16, 1956. She told me she was in the chorus line for a school production of "Oklahoma." I attended most of the rehearsals and the opening day performance of that show. The lead role of "Curly" was played by Herff Applewhite. At that time he had just turned 25 years old. He was always known as "Herff"--in fact, I didn't know he had a first name until the news articles about the Heaven's Gate suicides came out in 1997. I have, somewhere among my late wife's possessions, a clipping from the student newspaper that appeared the day after the opening of "Oklahoma" (to mixed reviews). It includes a picture with Herff in the lead role. "Reliable citations" were asked for. Is an eyewitness account good enough? Gdthayer ( talk) 17:59, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
I hit this on request. Here are some comments:
The distinction about whether the cult members was brainwashed is very odd, and ambiguous. What is this saying? Some argue that they were brainwashed, while others say... something that sounds like a definition of brainwashing.
"Lalich speculates that they were willing to follow Applewhite in suicide because they had become totally dependent upon him, and hence were poorly suited for life in his absence.[186] Davis attributes Applewhite's success in convincing his followers to commit suicide to two factors: he isolated them socially and cultivated an attitude of complete religious obedience in them.[187] Applewhite's students had made a long-term commitment to him, and Balch and Taylor infer that this is why his interpretations of events appeared coherent to them.[188]"
I just don't see how this is supposed to be *not* brainwashing.
It's like saying "while some argue that King Kong was a giant simian, others counter that he was merely an enormous gorilla." zadignose ( talk) 05:27, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
I think the article should somehow mention Jonestown in relation to the Heaven's Gate deaths. Something like "...excluding deaths at Jonestown, which are suspected to be either a mass suicide or a mass murder". Brandmeister talk 19:43, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
This anachronistic statement is sourced to Balch & Taylor 2002 p. 210 and Raine 2005, p. 107. I was able to check Balch & Taylor 2002 for the statement "his church did not support same-sex relationships and he was subsequently frustrated by his sexual desires" and found that it did not support the statement. I think it is safe to guess that it will not be found in Raine 2005 either. The societal discussion in the United States about same-sex relationships and church support did not begin until a decade later. This statement appears to be editorial synthesis or original research, however you want to describe it. It would be far more accurate to simply state the historical fact that mainstream religion and/or churches did not support same-sex relationships at that time in U.S. history. Viriditas ( talk) 01:16, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
The media describes the heaven's Gate group as "computer savvy", and they had a website. There's no mention in the article. 98.164.68.28 ( talk) 08:47, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Marshall Applewhite. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:45, 4 June 2017 (UTC)
The language "failing to return a rental car" is overly soft. The car was STOLEN, despite his repainting of the picture otherwise.
"In 1974, Applewhite and Nettles were thrown into the jail in Brownsville, Tex., charged with stealing a rental car and using stolen credit cards."
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/did-marshall-applewhite-steal-a-car/
"Do told us he and Ti sent a number of letters to the car rental company explaining that they fully intented to pay, though he had no way to pay and were just trusting the next level would help them."
kevinthenerd 05:36, 7 November 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevinthenerd ( talk • contribs)
Where and how and from whom did the receive a large influx of funds? Tyler Basho ( talk) 02:07, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
I believe that this reference should be linked to /info/en/?search=Earthship . The facts that the Applewhite-Nettles dwelling was built in New Mexico of tires and lumber, and called "Earth Ship," can hardly have been coincidental. For the bibliography on this building system see /info/en/?search=Mike_Reynolds_(architect) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.17.179.75 ( talk) 21:04, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
I can't verify the primary source that Applewhite had visions. His writings on his website don't indicate this, and as far as I know, none of the published interviews indicate this either. Mgamernin ( talk) 18:15, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
I can't verify the primary source that the cult was a Star Trek cult either. His writings on his website don't indicate this, and as far as I know, none of the published interviews indicate this either. Ex-cult member Sawyer seems to show in his book that references to Star Trek are uncommon as well. (I also don't see anything in his book about the two being aliens, or anything about them being transformed by aliens. So, I'm really confident in that.) Mgamernin ( talk) 18:15, 9 March 2022 (UTC)