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Veteran producer Edward R. Pressman and filmmaker David Gordon Green are teaming to produce Adam Bhala Lough's retro slasher film "Splatter Sisters," with Marilyn Manson and Evan Rachel Wood attached to star. variety.com -- MishaelNSK ( talk) 16:55, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
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I suggest that a link to http://www.nachtkabarett.com/Grotesque be added to the external links portion of this page, as it is considered an official Marilyn Manson page, and in fact, is endorsed by Manson himself. It deals in-depth with the meanings and sources of all the symbolism and metaphorical images throughout Manson's body of work. For proof that Manson promotes this site and its "Babalon" forums, see: http://www.nachtkabarett.com/Update/83:MarilynManson-com-Announces-Babalon-as-Official-BBS.
He has made a recent appearance on Tim And eric Awesome Show Great Job! in the episode "Crows" He plays Darkman, a crow-like human who makes Tim And Eric pay for their cruelty to birds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.216.155 ( talk) 05:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Manson's song Disposable Teen's was used for TNA Wrestler Christopher Daniels theme song for a short while, lyrics were not included as it was the instrumental version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.149.172 ( talk) 23:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Manson was one of the characters regularly caricatured in the British TV Series "Bo Selecta". Would have added this to the main article, but it appears uneditable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.188.147.34 ( talk) 08:19, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I don't see why the article can't be edited. I'm able to edit. I will add it for you if you can't.-- Artsupplymannequin ( talk) 18:57, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
There's a song by Relient K called Marilyn Mason ate my girlfriend. It is not on here. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
72.183.250.4 (
talk)
14:39, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Second foot note : it's season 2 episode 18 "Prehistoric Ice Man" instead of episode 219 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.239.139.168 ( talk) 17:56, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
third footnote, should be Family Guy, season 5, episode 4, not 504. There aren't 504 episodes in season five o.0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erkferrari ( talk • contribs) 23:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
MrHyperborean (
talk) 13:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Done Joe Gazz84
(user)•
(talk)•
(contribs)
17:29, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
i'm pretty positive there is an album that's been missed out; 'Smells Like Children'
i own this album myself, and am just wondering why it hasn't been included anywhere?
it was clearly a key part in the bands style development.. and was also a very early product of theirs.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.147.246.163 ( talk) 23:34, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
He is a freak. --How may I serve you? Marshall Williams2 Talk Autographs Contribs 03:53, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
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edit semi-protected}}
Under Music, Please remove:In 2010 Manson was featured in the Motionless in White song, "London in Terror".
There are no sources that can validate that Manson appeared in the song. The song does not credit him as a contributor. Also, as a person very familiar with Manson, I can confidently say that Manson's voice appears no where in the song. Mrjack465 ( talk) 12:34, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Marilyn Mason appeared in Celebrity Ghost Stories. add it to other media stuff kay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danooky ( talk • contribs) 02:01, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Marilyn Manson's "Sweet Dreams" is used in the movie "Gamer" but isn't listed in the filmography section of the page. Could we get this added?
(Later edit) The cover of "Sweet Dreams" is also featured in the remake film House on Haunted Hill (1999).
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
173.69.45.142 (
talk)
08:50, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
timmmy turner liked marylin manson —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.207.45.178 ( talk) 18:38, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Nothing about satanism at personal life? -- 188.27.126.114 ( talk) 08:29, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
He Is Not Crazy He Is The Man —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.39.185.133 ( talk) 15:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Cardinal Gibbons High School is listed incorrectly, he actually graduated from GlenOak High School in Canton, Ohio in 1987. I believe the incorrect information is coming from an article that was in the Sun Sentinel May 26, 2009. A correction was published the following day (May 27, 2009) with the correct high school. Ljw1127 ( talk) 04:21, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
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We were reading Annie Lennox's page which linked to Androgyny. If anyone should be included on the Androgyny list it is Marilyn Manson.
173.77.137.131 (
talk) 04:02, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Not done: Thanks for the opinion, but Wikipedia should only include information based on reliable sources. If you have a reliable source linking Manson and androgyny, please list it here.
Qwyrxian (
talk)
06:50, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I see in the section "Appearances in other media" that the Metalocalypse episode is called "Regionklok", this is not correct as it is called "Religionklok". You can see this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metalocalypse_episodes, it is season 1 episode 15. Could someone please correct this? Thanks 41.240.9.161 ( talk) 11:31, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
The relationship has ended between Brian Warner and Evan Rachal Wood, even though they reconciled this year the two have split and she is currently seeing Jamie Bell and Brian Warner is currently seeing a woman who's name will be disclosed for her privacy. According to sources related to Warner, he is " happily involved and is truly in love".
Spokespersonsteve (
talk)
20:15, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
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The article claims, under 'Early Life', that "The environment in his childhood made him vulnerable to further abuse and he was molested several times by a neighbor" -- there is no evidence of him being molested, let alone several times, in his autobiography, if this sentence follows on from the previous; and if not, then what evidence is there of him having suffered child sexual abuse? Citation needed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.36.52.53 ( talk) 13:43, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
I have a feeling that this is just a random edit that someone made, so I'm going to go ahead and change it back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.180.191.131 ( talk) 15:42, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
I added a short awards section. Anything else anyone has is welcomed. I think an artist should be noted for their awards/nominations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xffactor ( talk • contribs) 19:42, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I think M. Manson, the individual person, is eponymous, not the band. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jive Dadson ( talk • contribs) 04:07, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
"Brian Hugh Warner, under stage name Marilyn Manson" this is not true. His name was legally changed to Marilyn Manson a long long time ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.10.159.159 ( talk) 08:09, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Marylin Manson isn't classic rock... he's Industrial Metal.
Entry should include a section on Brian's political views - namely his support for Republican candidates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.7.118.70 ( talk) 13:36, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I know, it's so weird... He's got these (and I'm NOT being sarcastic here) ultra anti-Christian, anti-religion, anti-family, anti-fascist, anti-G-d, anti-racist ways so much so that you'd think he'd be a Social Democrat or even a Socialist, but no... Turns out he's like a hyper-ultra-mega-capitalist-conservative Republican! Ha! Who'd have thought? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.149.119.227 ( talk) 06:34, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Why aren't Rachelle or Missi mentioned under relationships/private life? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.88.10.41 ( talk) 09:33, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Maybe add a "see also" for Josh Saviano? Just to get a mutual linking. Ssredg ( talk) 23:33, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
I see it's cited now, but I must question how reliable that source is. Many people confuse Gothic rock as a fashion and not for a musical style, and I suspect that's what's happened here. Does Manson look "goth" in terms of the associated fashion? Yes, to many people that's a goth look. But does he play it musically? His primary influences seem to be post-industrial and heavy metal when you listen to the albums. He does claim to be a fan of Bauhaus and such, although I personally wonder how much of that is just for goth street cred as I can't hear it in the albums. I do admit that's a personal opinion, but let's take him at face value. Let's say he is into Gothic rock. That doesn't mean he plays it, Skinny Puppy were influenced by Bauhaus too, but no one would say they play it. Let's look at radically different bands and genres too. New wave music was an influence on Barenaked ladies, but no one would say they play it. Punk rock was largely influential on Joy Division and their earliest recordings are punk, but it's not a large enough part of their work to place it in genres. Anyway, just something to think about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.250.197.229 ( talk) 02:27, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
My edit, calling Manson a murderer was reverted by @ Homeostasis07:. Manson was convicted of murder and is therefore legally a murderer. And I think that this is a more instructive way of describing him than "leader of the Manson family." (What does that mean?) — goethean 01:42, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
@ Rystheguy: A recent claim in a Rolling Stone promo is not a usable source for Native heritage. His genealogy has been done and this is untrue. The fact other sources suck doesn't mean we use a bad one for additional content. Diff: [1] - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 18:05, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. The consensus is the current title is the most common name. Jenks24 ( talk) 15:10, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Marilyn Manson →
Brian Hugh Warner – That is his actual name. Plus, Marilyn Manson kind of is the band himself, so I don't like it that there is a page called
Marilyn Manson (band). The latter should just be called
Marilyn Manson. It kinda makes me nervous the
Brian Hugh Warner page is a redirect, but Twiggy Ramirez's page redirects to his actual name,
Jeordie White. I wanna know what you think of this.
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04:44, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
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I'm a new user and I keep trying to add some information to this page, but it keeps getting rejected and I'm not sure why. Manson has mentioned this information in several interviews. I can keep piling on the sources, but I am a bit confused about why a Larry King interview from his official Youtube channel and registration documents from the United States Trademark and Patent office aren't being considered legitimate. I provided links to increase the chances of my edits being approved, but it is my understanding that links are not required by Wikipedia to legitimize the information. It is my understanding that I could just give enough information for readers to look up the information themselves (something that, I believe, giving the date of the interview, the name of the person performing the interview, and also giving the serial number and registration date of Manson's trademark would allow anyone to do). I thought everything was collaborative, so I assumed if my citations were wonky (which is definitely the case since I don't know html very well) that someone would help fix it. I am getting very discouraged by the fact that my edits keep getting rejected in full without much comment. I understand that you are probably busy, but I would appreciate a bit more feedback on how to fix my proposed edit so that it will not be rejected. I assume you are rejecting it based on something I am doing wrong, not based on the nature of the information itself? After all, it is a verifiable fact that Marilyn Manson is a trademark held by Brian Hugh Warner. It is not very productive for me to keep trying to guess what I could do differently. I was under the impression that Wikipedia espoused postmodern conceptions of knowledge acquisition and dissemination. However, I can provide my credentials to you if that would allow me to participate in this community. Just let me know if that is necessary. For your reference, here is the edit I am trying to make:
"Marilyn Manson" is more than a stage name. As the musician himself noted in a June 2013 interview with Larry King, "Marilyn Manson... is trademarked, much like Mickey Mouse."[37] According to trademark registration records held by the United States Patent and Trademark Office, Brian Hugh Warner registered the trademark on February 24, 1998 and renewed the trademark on March 11, 2008 under serial number 75248374. The registration records indicate that Warner's trademark protects his body of work, that is, his "series of musical sound recordings and prerecorded videotapes and videodiscs featuring music." The trademark "does not specify a living individual." [38] This suggests that "Marilyn Manson" may be a character invented by Brian Warner.
JessamynSwan ( talk) 14:16, 3 July 2016 (UTC)JessamynSwan
No reply to this thread or the one posted on Govindaharihari's talk page, despite recent activity on the Marilyn Manson Article. Submitted the following edited version without receiving further guidance. Just to be clear, this means that any improvement in the below entry is due to my own guesswork, not from any communication I have received from Govindaharihari, who keeps rejecting my edit without much feedback
Brian Warner has mentioned on at least two occasions that the name “Marilyn Manson” is actually a trademark, not a stage name. In a 2015 interview at the Cannes Lions Festival, the musician said “I trademarked the name Marilyn Manson in the same way as Walt Disney and Mickey Mouse. It’s not a stage name. It’s not my legal name. Marilyn Manson is owned by Brian Warner.” [37] Manson also mentioned this in a 2013 interview with Larry King.[38] Trademark registration records held by the United States Patent and Trademark Office show that Brian Hugh Warner registered the first of four trademarks on “Marilyn Manson” on December 20, 1994, protecting "entertainment services; namely, live musical performances of a solo musician and/or musical group; and fan club services." Three subsequent trademarks, issued between 1995 and 1999, give Warner exclusive branding rights to “Marilyn Manson." In both the Larry King and Cannes Lions interviews, Manson reports using these trademark registrations in order to secure a cease and desist order to silence media who were wrongly blaming him for the Columbine High School shooting after one journalist erroneously reported that one of the shooters was wearing a Marilyn Manson T-Shirt. [39]
Govindaharihari previously rejected my edit on the basis of "original research," so I have attempted to make sure there is nothing remotely interpretative about the above information. He/She also rejected the previous edit on the basis of the legitimacy of the sources. However, the Larry King interview I referenced is actually used elsewhere in the extant Marilyn Manson article, except whoever posted that reference used the Manson Wiki. I used Larry King's official YouTube channel. which qualifies as a primary source. I thought a primary source would be preferable to a tertiary source like Manson Wiki. i am certain it would be elsewhere, but clearly I am not versed in all the rules and practices of wikipedia. At any rate, I made sure that both interviews I cited came from Manson Wiki since this appears to be a source that has been accepted as valid in the past. As far as the records from the United States Patent and Trademark office, I am unsure how to make those more acceptable. The Untied States Patent and Trademark Office is a federal agency required to keep official documents. If you could share with me why you have concerns about the legitimacy of this source, perhaps I can do something more.
If you reject my edits again, please give me detailed feedback on how you would like them fixed or explain to me why it is not relevant to Marilyn Manson's wikipedia page that he has trademarked his name. If you do not have the time or ability to address these concerns, please direct me to someone who can.— Preceding unsigned comment added by JessamynSwan ( talk • contribs) 12:16, July 5, 2016
- This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Take extra care to use high-quality sources" - none of your sources imho reach that level standard
Re this, the same rationale governs content as per the BLP policy. The first reference used is from 1996 at the height of the Manson controversy, and is by no means recent (and possibly not even serious), which means that it should not be used unless re-worded. It could possibly be reworded as "In an interview conducted in 1996, Manson stated that he was a Satanist". The second reference has no source for their claim. Did Manson state that in an interview? Or is it just based on his image? Either way, it is not a good reference for a religious claim, as Manson is not the source. Nymf ( talk) 10:38, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
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I've seen like 5 or 6 revisions claiming Marilyn is or is not a rapper. None of them are going to be accepted by me until sufficient proofs are wheeled out starting with today's. Got it? L3X1 My Complaint Desk 16:41, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
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Have sending Msg to mm (I love you3) Mohamadreza esmaeilpor ( talk) 14:52, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
Hey @ Homeostasis07: I appreciate if you add your citation for this edit. Because the citation it already has, and lots of other sources, say that his mother's last name is "Wyer". Obzord ( talk) 05:03, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
Is there any reason to keep the entries of the singer and the band as the separate things? (I may be wrong with this question, then.) Gleb95 ( talk) 14:59, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
The coverage of lawsuits may place undue weight on these lawsuits or be imbalanced. There are a lot of details for each lawsuit. Arguably article is about musician/artist first, with lawsuits being secondary. In place of the details, we could have a summary of each lawsuit: "X sued Marilyn Manson for Y on [Date]. Court Z ruled in favour of Q, awarding $XX,XXX to Q". I await comments on this proposal. Note: WP:UNDUE says that there should not be undue weight in Wikipedia articles. The "Balance" section following "undue weight" says "An article should not give undue weight to minor aspects of its subject, but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight proportional to its treatment in the body of reliable, published material on the subject". OnBeyondZebrax • TALK 15:03, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
I'm not going to fight for this as I'm not a Manson fan, but from what I've seen of him in interviews, he really doesn't seem anti-Christian in particular. He's not a Christian himself, doesn't like aspects of how the Church is run and a lot of what it does, but he has plenty of good to things to say about Christian ideals, values, and messages. He doesn't seem to be a practicing Satanist either as far as I can tell. Like with Christianity (and other religions too), he seems to view it as a place he finds certain wisdom, but just takes what he considers to be the good ideas he finds in all religions and leaves what he considers to be the bad ideas. Moreover, his role of minister in the Church of Satan seems to be title more than anything, which accepted mainly because he considered Anton LaVey a friend. Honestly, he even seems to have spiritual beliefs of some kind; he doesn't seem to be an atheist like LaVeyian Satanism would dictate. Right now, the section on Manson's religious views seem to either have been written by a Christian who wants to demonize him or by someone with anti-Christian beliefs looking to confirm that Manson is on "their side." Perhaps we should try to find some more balance in that section and reflect what Manson actually has to say on the subject? And I'll just leave these below for you guys to discuss and perhaps properly cite if you think what I had to say is reflected in 'em...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujSiIUJHG-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WENtxp3vqyc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUdF2CbKIa8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whAs5cbIozs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.74.67.15 ( talk) 00:28, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
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Please replace "If you take all the basic principals of any religion" with the correct "If you take all the basic principles of any religion". Please check the definition of "principal" vs "principle" if you are unsure about it. 68.14.158.165 ( talk) 15:39, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
I added the genre "goth metal" because they are listed on the "list of goth metal bands" page with a citation. The Mo-Ja'al ( talk) 20:02, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
He married Lindsay Usich in the spring of 2020, in a private ceremony. She later confirmed it with a picture she took of him wearing his wedding band. MansonGirl15 ( talk) 14:30, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
Marilyn Manson confessed that he had Polish-German roots thanks to his father's family and the same you can read in his book: The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.2.7.80 ( talk) 01:48, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
Starred on Season 3 Episodes 1 and 4 of American Gods on Starz. Nrd0527 ( talk) 22:30, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
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Remove this man from the world wide web please. NotAbuser ( talk) 12:27, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
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At § Abuse allegations, it says: "[...] they were investigating allegations of domestic violence against Manson." This is ambiguous, because of the 'violence against Manson' bit. I suggest changing "against" to "involving". (Or otherwise rewriting the sentence, however you see fit, to get rid of the ambiguity.) -- 143.176.30.65 ( talk) 08:56, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
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2600:100E:B009:D70B:DC05:65D8:560A:37BF ( talk) 00:28, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Smells like Children is not in the discography
I believe, as the story is developing, the inclusion of the allegations of abuse in the lede are currently WP:UNDUE for now. I held back from reverting Sdkb's edit in favour of generating discussion. CaffeinAddict ( talk) 21:40, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
Esmé Bianco has sued Marilyn Manson. Can the details at this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56951794 web page be added to the article. 2A00:23C6:3B82:8500:20F8:D8CC:ADCE:2D8F ( talk) 10:04, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
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Since many people are confused of his gender, I think that we should note it under his date of birth, my only suggestion. SandboxThrowaway123214 ( talk) 22:49, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
In the section above, the consensus seemed to be to wait on the question of whether or not to add the allegations to the lead. In the months since then, the headlines have very much continued (recent example from Rolling Stone: " Fourth Accuser Sues Marilyn Manson for Rape, Human Trafficking, Unlawful Imprisonment"), and there are zero signs that Manson will just skate by this, or indeed that his reputation will ever recover. I assert that mentioning the allegations is at this point unquestionably due. If others agree, someone more familiar with the story should try out some wordings and we should discuss refinements as needed. If others still disagree, I will be inclined to start an RfC to assess the broader community's consensus on this matter. {{u| Sdkb}} talk 18:39, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Should the lead section of this article mention the allegations of sexual abuse against Manson? {{u| Sdkb}} talk 20:14, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
I'd also appreciate genuine consensus on this matter, since both of these users above have been edit warring and WP:TAGTEAMING this article over the past 48 hours. I've tried to assume good faith on the part of these two users, but considering the comments on Evan Rachel Wood's Instagram account these past two weeks about "weaponizing" Wikipedia, much like she did on Instagram back in February, I can't help but have genuine suspicions as to why this RfC is taking place right now. So, yeah... would appreciate all uninvolved commentary before any further changes are made to this article.Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 20:22, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
In 2021, multiple women accused Manson of psychologically and sexually abusing them.If you have neutrality concerns about that, now would be a good time to raise them so that others can comment. It seems to me like a pretty straightforward description of the situation; including Manson's denial in the short mention in the lead would not be appropriate per WP:MANDY. {{u| Sdkb}} talk 04:30, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, speculative history, or plausible but currently unaccepted theories [which] should not be legitimized through comparison to accepted academic scholarship." False Balance – ie, giving 'the world is flat' conspiracy theories equal precedence alongside genuine evidence to the contrary – does not apply here. These remain allegations only, are not proven, no convictions or admission, developments clearly ongoing, etc.
"Given their potential impact on biography subjects' lives, biographies must be fair to their subjects at all times."and
"Criticism and praise should be included if they can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, so long as the material is presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone."Any reasonable editor could conclude both sentences refer to the lead once any proposed addition is properly sourced in the body.
Wood has not yet granted any interviews about her allegations. But for now, she is weaponizing Instagram to great effect to keep them front of mind. She has used the platform to damningly recontextualize articles written about Manson in which he expressed violent thoughts toward her — and it was just seen as part of his shock-rocker schtick.Space4Time3Continuum2x ( talk) 16:46, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
*Yes. It should be in the lead as it is being done for other biographies.
Sea Ane (
talk)
22:49, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
References
@ Homeostasis07: Please assume good-faith editing instead of accusing another editor, who edited the article for the first time, of edit-warring. As I explained when reverting your revert, the RfC is about the lead, not the body, and the content was sourced from a reliable source that was already in the same section but whose content (paragraph just above Manson's photograph) had apparently been overlooked. Space4Time3Continuum2x ( talk) 05:27, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
@
Spy-cicle: Answering your question above: I'm referring to the quote from a Manson Instagram post, as cited by CNN, in the second paragraph of [Marilyn_Manson#Abuse_allegations]. these recent claims ... are horrible distortions of reality. My intimate relationships have always been entirely consensual with like-minded partners.
His lawyers also wrote that they were stories to turn what were consensual friendships and relationships with Warner from more than a decade ago, into twisted tales that bear no resemblance to reality
. To me that does not sound like denial of the violence, merely of it being non-consensual but that's my opinion which I haven't added to the article.
Space4Time3Continuum2x (
talk)
05:27, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
Following Wood's allegations, several other women made various allegations against Manson on Instagram." and "
In the months that followed, four women filed civil lawsuits against the vocalist...". The section's content before your edits was in chronological order, and isn't long enough to merit this repeating of information or for a summarizing statement. Your edit simply doesn't add anything to the article that wasn't already there. I don't really want to make a big stink about this, so am providing you with an opportunity to sort this out amongst ourselves before I take this further. Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 21:38, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
Aside from the personal attacks on me (and other editors, e.g., here), seems to me that it's you who should stop editing this article at least until you have cooled down and examined your own POV for neutrality. Space4Time3Continuum2x ( talk) 12:35, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
References
I propose the following change to the abuse allegations text from the end of the lead section:
In 2021, multiple women accused Manson of psychologically and sexually abusing them
, allegations which he has repeatedly denied; Manson has so far not been charged with any crime related to sexual or domestic violence.
I think this is a good compromise for those who think a counter claim is necessary and those who think Manson's denial is undue. The fact that he has yet to be charged with anything seems more important than him just denying it. –– FormalDude talk 11:29, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
In 2021, multiple women alleged Manson had been psychologically and sexually abusive, allegations he called a "coordinated attack" and repeatedly denied. As of September 2021, Manson has not been charged with any crime related to sexual or domestic violence.
Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 23:15, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
Somebody has written "Crowley's esoteric subject matter forms an important leitmotif in much of Manson's early work.[137]". Whoever has written this does not understand what leitmotif means, which is a musical phrase that is repeated and associated with a certain subject matter (like the Darth Vader theme). There is no leitmotif in the music of Marilyn Manson associated with Crowley. Perhaps the author meant 'theme'. 203.166.232.254 ( talk) 18:50, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
@ Spy-cicle:,@ FormalDude: I stand corrected on the citation, wasn't aware of the first paragraph of MOS:LEADCITE. I don't agree with this . "Repeatedly" is not neutral, it's op-ed (well, duh!). He denied the accusations, period. Space4Time3Continuum2x ( talk) 12:34, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
As per WP:ROLLINGSTONEPOLITICS (the shortcut link has a bad name; none of the false allegations in A Rape on Campus were political in nature), we can not use Rolling Stone to make serious allegations of abuse (such as the soundproof glass chamber allegation which is currently viral online right now). The allegations need to be confirmed by an actual reliable sources before they can be included in the Wikipedia. Samboy ( talk) 01:17, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
Along with the reporting on Manson's alleged domestic abuse of female ex-partners, there have been reports that Manson has engaged in sexual harassment, e.g. of Charlyne Yi (Yi's accusations were first reported on in 2018, but they've been reported again recently in articles discussing the recent lawsuits for alleged rape, abuse etc). Particularly given Charlyne Yi is notable enough to have her own article, I feel like there's an argument for including a brief mention of Yi's claims in Manson's article somewhere in the 'personal life' section? 90.246.212.113 ( talk) 01:46, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
It was English-German-Polish not Irish 2001:1C01:2BCA:3D00:A10C:1193:AE88:F7A3 ( talk) 01:30, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
While I don't believe consensus is needed to bring a BLP article in line with the policy, per
WP:EDITCONSENSUS, I would rather discuss than revert. As explained in
the edit summary, Wikipedia is
not a news source, and the running commentary currently included in the article clearly constitutes
WP:EXCESSDETAIL, i.e. "lawsuit dismissed on September 16
" ... "judge gave the complainant 20 days to refile an amended complaint
" ... "denied motion to dismiss on October 10
" ... ordered Manson to respond within two weeks
". The edit I made removed these
WP:TRIVIAL details while leaving intact the information that four different civil suits exist. Content should only be included if subject to
WP:SUSTAINED coverage. Is it important to the casual reader's understanding of this topic that a lawsuit was temporarily dismissed on September 16? Another user had previously removed the names of the accusers, as three of them are
WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURES and one of those is anonymous. This is all in line with
WP:BLP, and should have been uncontroversial, but would appreciate feedback from @
FormalDude: and others before reverting.
Homeostasis07 (
talk/
contributions)
22:31, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
Four women filed lawsuits against Manson...". Lawuits filed and dismissed and refiled; Manson "
ordered to respond within 20 days"; unencyclopedic, tabloidish verbiage like "
a woman who claims to be an ex-girlfriend of Manson who has chosen to remain anonymous"... unless a convincing, policy-based argument can be made for the inclusion of this material, it needs to go, per the WP:BLP policy. Suggest one of you do it, if you're genuinely interested in improving this article. Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 19:52, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
They filed a motion to dismiss these lawsuits, calling the claims "untrue, meritless" and alleging that several of the accusers "spent months plotting, workshopping, and fine-tuning their stories to turn what were consensual friendships and relationships with Warner from more than a decade ago, into twisted tales that bear no resemblance to reality"
Comment: For context, these are the changes Homeostasis07 is proposing:
On February 2, Manson issued a statement via Instagram, saying, "Obviously, my art and my life have long been magnets for controversy, but these recent claims about me are horrible distortions of reality. My intimate relationships have always been entirely consensual with like-minded partners." [1] His former wife Dita Von Teese stated that "the details made public do not match my personal experience during our 7 years together as a couple." [2] Former girlfriend Rose McGowan said that Manson was not abusive during their relationship but that her experience had "no bearing on whether he was like that with others before or after". [3]
¶The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department confirmed on February 19, 2021, that they were investigating Manson due to allegations of domestic violence. [4] As of September 2021, Manson has not been charged with any crime related to sexual or domestic violence. [5] [6]
In the months that followed Evan Rachel Wood's accusations,four women filed civil lawsuits against Manson seeking financial compensation: Esmé Bianco, [7] Ashley Morgan Smithline, [8] Manson's former employee, Ashley Walters, [9] and a woman who claims to be an ex-girlfriend of Manson who has chosen to remain anonymous.[10]Manson's legal team issued statements denying the allegations. [11] [12] They filed a motion to dismiss these lawsuits, calling the claims "untrue, meritless" and alleging that several of the accusers "spent months plotting, workshopping, and fine-tuning their stories to turn what were consensual friendships and relationships with Warner from more than a decade ago, into twisted tales that bear no resemblance to reality". [13]
The lawsuit filed by an anonymous woman was initially dismissed on September 16 because of the statute of limitations. [5] [14] The judge gave the complainant 20 days to file an amended complaint with additional details, which she did on September 23. [15] [16]
On October 10, 2021, a federal judge denied Manson's motion to dismiss Bianco's lawsuit and allowed the case to proceed. [17] [18] The judge ordered Manson to respond to Bianco's allegations within two weeks. [17]
I'll say more about why cutting this content is not the right thing to do as soon as I have some more time. ––
FormalDude
talk
07:32, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
References
This isn't a dispute, at least not from my end. Just a discussion to help improve the article. I probably won't be online for the next few days anyway, so it's not like there's a rush. Anyway, happy gregorian new year to everyone. Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 15:19, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
When material about living persons has been deleted on good-faith BLP objections, any editor wishing to add, restore, or undelete it must ensure it complies with Wikipedia's content policies. If it is to be restored without significant change, consensus must be obtained first." No effort has been made to address the issues currently found on the article, and I'm not seeing any legitimate counter-arguments to the policy-based concerns I raised here, specifically WP:NOTNEWS, WP:SUSTAINED and WP:TABLOID.With this in mind, I've edited the article again, but I've taken this discussion on-board and made minimal content removal this time. All I've done is rephrase the tabloid verbiage "
a woman who chose to remain anonymous and says she is an ex-girlfriend of Manson." to simply "an anonymous woman.", and removed descriptors of the complainants, e.g., "
model" and "
Manson's former employee", as these are the kinds of descriptors people read on the Daily Mail website and serve only to decimate the overall tone of the article. I've additionally WP:SUMMARYSTYLE truncated the proceeding details of the lawsuits, as Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a gossip site. The only content technically removed are the dates events occured ("
On October 10, 2021,", etc.) and the sentence fragment "
and allowed the case to proceed.". The latter is tautological; if the "federal judge denied Manson's motion to dismiss Bianco's lawsuit" – previous portion of sentence, still there – then it's redundant to say the case was "allowed to proceed". I've also removed the sentence "
The judge ordered Manson to respond to Bianco's allegations within two weeks.", since – all things considered – that will hardly be remembered as a significant case development. Important updates (i.e., long-term, subject to sustained coverage) regarding the lawsuits can then be neatly added to the end of the paragraph in future.Hope you both find this an acceptable compromise to this discussion which, again, I don't consider to be a dispute in any form... merely an attempt to remove unencyclopedic tabloid language and details. If required, I hope this discussion can continue in a respectful and productive tone. Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 22:19, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Add to associated acts column 2600:1003:B868:DFA7:A1F7:82BA:6344:7C00 ( talk) 03:07, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Veteran producer Edward R. Pressman and filmmaker David Gordon Green are teaming to produce Adam Bhala Lough's retro slasher film "Splatter Sisters," with Marilyn Manson and Evan Rachel Wood attached to star. variety.com -- MishaelNSK ( talk) 16:55, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
{{ editsemiprotected}}
I suggest that a link to http://www.nachtkabarett.com/Grotesque be added to the external links portion of this page, as it is considered an official Marilyn Manson page, and in fact, is endorsed by Manson himself. It deals in-depth with the meanings and sources of all the symbolism and metaphorical images throughout Manson's body of work. For proof that Manson promotes this site and its "Babalon" forums, see: http://www.nachtkabarett.com/Update/83:MarilynManson-com-Announces-Babalon-as-Official-BBS.
He has made a recent appearance on Tim And eric Awesome Show Great Job! in the episode "Crows" He plays Darkman, a crow-like human who makes Tim And Eric pay for their cruelty to birds. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.216.155 ( talk) 05:02, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Manson's song Disposable Teen's was used for TNA Wrestler Christopher Daniels theme song for a short while, lyrics were not included as it was the instrumental version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.149.172 ( talk) 23:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Manson was one of the characters regularly caricatured in the British TV Series "Bo Selecta". Would have added this to the main article, but it appears uneditable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.188.147.34 ( talk) 08:19, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I don't see why the article can't be edited. I'm able to edit. I will add it for you if you can't.-- Artsupplymannequin ( talk) 18:57, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
There's a song by Relient K called Marilyn Mason ate my girlfriend. It is not on here. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
72.183.250.4 (
talk)
14:39, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Second foot note : it's season 2 episode 18 "Prehistoric Ice Man" instead of episode 219 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.239.139.168 ( talk) 17:56, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
third footnote, should be Family Guy, season 5, episode 4, not 504. There aren't 504 episodes in season five o.0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erkferrari ( talk • contribs) 23:40, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
MrHyperborean (
talk) 13:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Done Joe Gazz84
(user)•
(talk)•
(contribs)
17:29, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
i'm pretty positive there is an album that's been missed out; 'Smells Like Children'
i own this album myself, and am just wondering why it hasn't been included anywhere?
it was clearly a key part in the bands style development.. and was also a very early product of theirs.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.147.246.163 ( talk) 23:34, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
He is a freak. --How may I serve you? Marshall Williams2 Talk Autographs Contribs 03:53, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
Under Music, Please remove:In 2010 Manson was featured in the Motionless in White song, "London in Terror".
There are no sources that can validate that Manson appeared in the song. The song does not credit him as a contributor. Also, as a person very familiar with Manson, I can confidently say that Manson's voice appears no where in the song. Mrjack465 ( talk) 12:34, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Marilyn Mason appeared in Celebrity Ghost Stories. add it to other media stuff kay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danooky ( talk • contribs) 02:01, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Marilyn Manson's "Sweet Dreams" is used in the movie "Gamer" but isn't listed in the filmography section of the page. Could we get this added?
(Later edit) The cover of "Sweet Dreams" is also featured in the remake film House on Haunted Hill (1999).
—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
173.69.45.142 (
talk)
08:50, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
timmmy turner liked marylin manson —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.207.45.178 ( talk) 18:38, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Nothing about satanism at personal life? -- 188.27.126.114 ( talk) 08:29, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
He Is Not Crazy He Is The Man —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.39.185.133 ( talk) 15:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Cardinal Gibbons High School is listed incorrectly, he actually graduated from GlenOak High School in Canton, Ohio in 1987. I believe the incorrect information is coming from an article that was in the Sun Sentinel May 26, 2009. A correction was published the following day (May 27, 2009) with the correct high school. Ljw1127 ( talk) 04:21, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
We were reading Annie Lennox's page which linked to Androgyny. If anyone should be included on the Androgyny list it is Marilyn Manson.
173.77.137.131 (
talk) 04:02, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Not done: Thanks for the opinion, but Wikipedia should only include information based on reliable sources. If you have a reliable source linking Manson and androgyny, please list it here.
Qwyrxian (
talk)
06:50, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I see in the section "Appearances in other media" that the Metalocalypse episode is called "Regionklok", this is not correct as it is called "Religionklok". You can see this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metalocalypse_episodes, it is season 1 episode 15. Could someone please correct this? Thanks 41.240.9.161 ( talk) 11:31, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
The relationship has ended between Brian Warner and Evan Rachal Wood, even though they reconciled this year the two have split and she is currently seeing Jamie Bell and Brian Warner is currently seeing a woman who's name will be disclosed for her privacy. According to sources related to Warner, he is " happily involved and is truly in love".
Spokespersonsteve (
talk)
20:15, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
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The article claims, under 'Early Life', that "The environment in his childhood made him vulnerable to further abuse and he was molested several times by a neighbor" -- there is no evidence of him being molested, let alone several times, in his autobiography, if this sentence follows on from the previous; and if not, then what evidence is there of him having suffered child sexual abuse? Citation needed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.36.52.53 ( talk) 13:43, 12 December 2011 (UTC)
I have a feeling that this is just a random edit that someone made, so I'm going to go ahead and change it back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.180.191.131 ( talk) 15:42, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
I added a short awards section. Anything else anyone has is welcomed. I think an artist should be noted for their awards/nominations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xffactor ( talk • contribs) 19:42, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
I think M. Manson, the individual person, is eponymous, not the band. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jive Dadson ( talk • contribs) 04:07, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
"Brian Hugh Warner, under stage name Marilyn Manson" this is not true. His name was legally changed to Marilyn Manson a long long time ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.10.159.159 ( talk) 08:09, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Marylin Manson isn't classic rock... he's Industrial Metal.
Entry should include a section on Brian's political views - namely his support for Republican candidates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.7.118.70 ( talk) 13:36, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, I know, it's so weird... He's got these (and I'm NOT being sarcastic here) ultra anti-Christian, anti-religion, anti-family, anti-fascist, anti-G-d, anti-racist ways so much so that you'd think he'd be a Social Democrat or even a Socialist, but no... Turns out he's like a hyper-ultra-mega-capitalist-conservative Republican! Ha! Who'd have thought? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.149.119.227 ( talk) 06:34, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Why aren't Rachelle or Missi mentioned under relationships/private life? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.88.10.41 ( talk) 09:33, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Maybe add a "see also" for Josh Saviano? Just to get a mutual linking. Ssredg ( talk) 23:33, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
I see it's cited now, but I must question how reliable that source is. Many people confuse Gothic rock as a fashion and not for a musical style, and I suspect that's what's happened here. Does Manson look "goth" in terms of the associated fashion? Yes, to many people that's a goth look. But does he play it musically? His primary influences seem to be post-industrial and heavy metal when you listen to the albums. He does claim to be a fan of Bauhaus and such, although I personally wonder how much of that is just for goth street cred as I can't hear it in the albums. I do admit that's a personal opinion, but let's take him at face value. Let's say he is into Gothic rock. That doesn't mean he plays it, Skinny Puppy were influenced by Bauhaus too, but no one would say they play it. Let's look at radically different bands and genres too. New wave music was an influence on Barenaked ladies, but no one would say they play it. Punk rock was largely influential on Joy Division and their earliest recordings are punk, but it's not a large enough part of their work to place it in genres. Anyway, just something to think about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.250.197.229 ( talk) 02:27, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
My edit, calling Manson a murderer was reverted by @ Homeostasis07:. Manson was convicted of murder and is therefore legally a murderer. And I think that this is a more instructive way of describing him than "leader of the Manson family." (What does that mean?) — goethean 01:42, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
@ Rystheguy: A recent claim in a Rolling Stone promo is not a usable source for Native heritage. His genealogy has been done and this is untrue. The fact other sources suck doesn't mean we use a bad one for additional content. Diff: [1] - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 18:05, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. The consensus is the current title is the most common name. Jenks24 ( talk) 15:10, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Marilyn Manson →
Brian Hugh Warner – That is his actual name. Plus, Marilyn Manson kind of is the band himself, so I don't like it that there is a page called
Marilyn Manson (band). The latter should just be called
Marilyn Manson. It kinda makes me nervous the
Brian Hugh Warner page is a redirect, but Twiggy Ramirez's page redirects to his actual name,
Jeordie White. I wanna know what you think of this.
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talk)
04:44, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
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I'm a new user and I keep trying to add some information to this page, but it keeps getting rejected and I'm not sure why. Manson has mentioned this information in several interviews. I can keep piling on the sources, but I am a bit confused about why a Larry King interview from his official Youtube channel and registration documents from the United States Trademark and Patent office aren't being considered legitimate. I provided links to increase the chances of my edits being approved, but it is my understanding that links are not required by Wikipedia to legitimize the information. It is my understanding that I could just give enough information for readers to look up the information themselves (something that, I believe, giving the date of the interview, the name of the person performing the interview, and also giving the serial number and registration date of Manson's trademark would allow anyone to do). I thought everything was collaborative, so I assumed if my citations were wonky (which is definitely the case since I don't know html very well) that someone would help fix it. I am getting very discouraged by the fact that my edits keep getting rejected in full without much comment. I understand that you are probably busy, but I would appreciate a bit more feedback on how to fix my proposed edit so that it will not be rejected. I assume you are rejecting it based on something I am doing wrong, not based on the nature of the information itself? After all, it is a verifiable fact that Marilyn Manson is a trademark held by Brian Hugh Warner. It is not very productive for me to keep trying to guess what I could do differently. I was under the impression that Wikipedia espoused postmodern conceptions of knowledge acquisition and dissemination. However, I can provide my credentials to you if that would allow me to participate in this community. Just let me know if that is necessary. For your reference, here is the edit I am trying to make:
"Marilyn Manson" is more than a stage name. As the musician himself noted in a June 2013 interview with Larry King, "Marilyn Manson... is trademarked, much like Mickey Mouse."[37] According to trademark registration records held by the United States Patent and Trademark Office, Brian Hugh Warner registered the trademark on February 24, 1998 and renewed the trademark on March 11, 2008 under serial number 75248374. The registration records indicate that Warner's trademark protects his body of work, that is, his "series of musical sound recordings and prerecorded videotapes and videodiscs featuring music." The trademark "does not specify a living individual." [38] This suggests that "Marilyn Manson" may be a character invented by Brian Warner.
JessamynSwan ( talk) 14:16, 3 July 2016 (UTC)JessamynSwan
No reply to this thread or the one posted on Govindaharihari's talk page, despite recent activity on the Marilyn Manson Article. Submitted the following edited version without receiving further guidance. Just to be clear, this means that any improvement in the below entry is due to my own guesswork, not from any communication I have received from Govindaharihari, who keeps rejecting my edit without much feedback
Brian Warner has mentioned on at least two occasions that the name “Marilyn Manson” is actually a trademark, not a stage name. In a 2015 interview at the Cannes Lions Festival, the musician said “I trademarked the name Marilyn Manson in the same way as Walt Disney and Mickey Mouse. It’s not a stage name. It’s not my legal name. Marilyn Manson is owned by Brian Warner.” [37] Manson also mentioned this in a 2013 interview with Larry King.[38] Trademark registration records held by the United States Patent and Trademark Office show that Brian Hugh Warner registered the first of four trademarks on “Marilyn Manson” on December 20, 1994, protecting "entertainment services; namely, live musical performances of a solo musician and/or musical group; and fan club services." Three subsequent trademarks, issued between 1995 and 1999, give Warner exclusive branding rights to “Marilyn Manson." In both the Larry King and Cannes Lions interviews, Manson reports using these trademark registrations in order to secure a cease and desist order to silence media who were wrongly blaming him for the Columbine High School shooting after one journalist erroneously reported that one of the shooters was wearing a Marilyn Manson T-Shirt. [39]
Govindaharihari previously rejected my edit on the basis of "original research," so I have attempted to make sure there is nothing remotely interpretative about the above information. He/She also rejected the previous edit on the basis of the legitimacy of the sources. However, the Larry King interview I referenced is actually used elsewhere in the extant Marilyn Manson article, except whoever posted that reference used the Manson Wiki. I used Larry King's official YouTube channel. which qualifies as a primary source. I thought a primary source would be preferable to a tertiary source like Manson Wiki. i am certain it would be elsewhere, but clearly I am not versed in all the rules and practices of wikipedia. At any rate, I made sure that both interviews I cited came from Manson Wiki since this appears to be a source that has been accepted as valid in the past. As far as the records from the United States Patent and Trademark office, I am unsure how to make those more acceptable. The Untied States Patent and Trademark Office is a federal agency required to keep official documents. If you could share with me why you have concerns about the legitimacy of this source, perhaps I can do something more.
If you reject my edits again, please give me detailed feedback on how you would like them fixed or explain to me why it is not relevant to Marilyn Manson's wikipedia page that he has trademarked his name. If you do not have the time or ability to address these concerns, please direct me to someone who can.— Preceding unsigned comment added by JessamynSwan ( talk • contribs) 12:16, July 5, 2016
- This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Take extra care to use high-quality sources" - none of your sources imho reach that level standard
Re this, the same rationale governs content as per the BLP policy. The first reference used is from 1996 at the height of the Manson controversy, and is by no means recent (and possibly not even serious), which means that it should not be used unless re-worded. It could possibly be reworded as "In an interview conducted in 1996, Manson stated that he was a Satanist". The second reference has no source for their claim. Did Manson state that in an interview? Or is it just based on his image? Either way, it is not a good reference for a religious claim, as Manson is not the source. Nymf ( talk) 10:38, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
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I've seen like 5 or 6 revisions claiming Marilyn is or is not a rapper. None of them are going to be accepted by me until sufficient proofs are wheeled out starting with today's. Got it? L3X1 My Complaint Desk 16:41, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
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Have sending Msg to mm (I love you3) Mohamadreza esmaeilpor ( talk) 14:52, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
Hey @ Homeostasis07: I appreciate if you add your citation for this edit. Because the citation it already has, and lots of other sources, say that his mother's last name is "Wyer". Obzord ( talk) 05:03, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
Is there any reason to keep the entries of the singer and the band as the separate things? (I may be wrong with this question, then.) Gleb95 ( talk) 14:59, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
The coverage of lawsuits may place undue weight on these lawsuits or be imbalanced. There are a lot of details for each lawsuit. Arguably article is about musician/artist first, with lawsuits being secondary. In place of the details, we could have a summary of each lawsuit: "X sued Marilyn Manson for Y on [Date]. Court Z ruled in favour of Q, awarding $XX,XXX to Q". I await comments on this proposal. Note: WP:UNDUE says that there should not be undue weight in Wikipedia articles. The "Balance" section following "undue weight" says "An article should not give undue weight to minor aspects of its subject, but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight proportional to its treatment in the body of reliable, published material on the subject". OnBeyondZebrax • TALK 15:03, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
I'm not going to fight for this as I'm not a Manson fan, but from what I've seen of him in interviews, he really doesn't seem anti-Christian in particular. He's not a Christian himself, doesn't like aspects of how the Church is run and a lot of what it does, but he has plenty of good to things to say about Christian ideals, values, and messages. He doesn't seem to be a practicing Satanist either as far as I can tell. Like with Christianity (and other religions too), he seems to view it as a place he finds certain wisdom, but just takes what he considers to be the good ideas he finds in all religions and leaves what he considers to be the bad ideas. Moreover, his role of minister in the Church of Satan seems to be title more than anything, which accepted mainly because he considered Anton LaVey a friend. Honestly, he even seems to have spiritual beliefs of some kind; he doesn't seem to be an atheist like LaVeyian Satanism would dictate. Right now, the section on Manson's religious views seem to either have been written by a Christian who wants to demonize him or by someone with anti-Christian beliefs looking to confirm that Manson is on "their side." Perhaps we should try to find some more balance in that section and reflect what Manson actually has to say on the subject? And I'll just leave these below for you guys to discuss and perhaps properly cite if you think what I had to say is reflected in 'em...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujSiIUJHG-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WENtxp3vqyc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUdF2CbKIa8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whAs5cbIozs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.74.67.15 ( talk) 00:28, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
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Please replace "If you take all the basic principals of any religion" with the correct "If you take all the basic principles of any religion". Please check the definition of "principal" vs "principle" if you are unsure about it. 68.14.158.165 ( talk) 15:39, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
I added the genre "goth metal" because they are listed on the "list of goth metal bands" page with a citation. The Mo-Ja'al ( talk) 20:02, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
He married Lindsay Usich in the spring of 2020, in a private ceremony. She later confirmed it with a picture she took of him wearing his wedding band. MansonGirl15 ( talk) 14:30, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
Marilyn Manson confessed that he had Polish-German roots thanks to his father's family and the same you can read in his book: The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.2.7.80 ( talk) 01:48, 28 January 2021 (UTC)
Starred on Season 3 Episodes 1 and 4 of American Gods on Starz. Nrd0527 ( talk) 22:30, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
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Remove this man from the world wide web please. NotAbuser ( talk) 12:27, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
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At § Abuse allegations, it says: "[...] they were investigating allegations of domestic violence against Manson." This is ambiguous, because of the 'violence against Manson' bit. I suggest changing "against" to "involving". (Or otherwise rewriting the sentence, however you see fit, to get rid of the ambiguity.) -- 143.176.30.65 ( talk) 08:56, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
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2600:100E:B009:D70B:DC05:65D8:560A:37BF ( talk) 00:28, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
Smells like Children is not in the discography
I believe, as the story is developing, the inclusion of the allegations of abuse in the lede are currently WP:UNDUE for now. I held back from reverting Sdkb's edit in favour of generating discussion. CaffeinAddict ( talk) 21:40, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
Esmé Bianco has sued Marilyn Manson. Can the details at this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56951794 web page be added to the article. 2A00:23C6:3B82:8500:20F8:D8CC:ADCE:2D8F ( talk) 10:04, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
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Since many people are confused of his gender, I think that we should note it under his date of birth, my only suggestion. SandboxThrowaway123214 ( talk) 22:49, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
In the section above, the consensus seemed to be to wait on the question of whether or not to add the allegations to the lead. In the months since then, the headlines have very much continued (recent example from Rolling Stone: " Fourth Accuser Sues Marilyn Manson for Rape, Human Trafficking, Unlawful Imprisonment"), and there are zero signs that Manson will just skate by this, or indeed that his reputation will ever recover. I assert that mentioning the allegations is at this point unquestionably due. If others agree, someone more familiar with the story should try out some wordings and we should discuss refinements as needed. If others still disagree, I will be inclined to start an RfC to assess the broader community's consensus on this matter. {{u| Sdkb}} talk 18:39, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
Should the lead section of this article mention the allegations of sexual abuse against Manson? {{u| Sdkb}} talk 20:14, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
I'd also appreciate genuine consensus on this matter, since both of these users above have been edit warring and WP:TAGTEAMING this article over the past 48 hours. I've tried to assume good faith on the part of these two users, but considering the comments on Evan Rachel Wood's Instagram account these past two weeks about "weaponizing" Wikipedia, much like she did on Instagram back in February, I can't help but have genuine suspicions as to why this RfC is taking place right now. So, yeah... would appreciate all uninvolved commentary before any further changes are made to this article.Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 20:22, 29 August 2021 (UTC)
In 2021, multiple women accused Manson of psychologically and sexually abusing them.If you have neutrality concerns about that, now would be a good time to raise them so that others can comment. It seems to me like a pretty straightforward description of the situation; including Manson's denial in the short mention in the lead would not be appropriate per WP:MANDY. {{u| Sdkb}} talk 04:30, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, speculative history, or plausible but currently unaccepted theories [which] should not be legitimized through comparison to accepted academic scholarship." False Balance – ie, giving 'the world is flat' conspiracy theories equal precedence alongside genuine evidence to the contrary – does not apply here. These remain allegations only, are not proven, no convictions or admission, developments clearly ongoing, etc.
"Given their potential impact on biography subjects' lives, biographies must be fair to their subjects at all times."and
"Criticism and praise should be included if they can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, so long as the material is presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a disinterested tone."Any reasonable editor could conclude both sentences refer to the lead once any proposed addition is properly sourced in the body.
Wood has not yet granted any interviews about her allegations. But for now, she is weaponizing Instagram to great effect to keep them front of mind. She has used the platform to damningly recontextualize articles written about Manson in which he expressed violent thoughts toward her — and it was just seen as part of his shock-rocker schtick.Space4Time3Continuum2x ( talk) 16:46, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
*Yes. It should be in the lead as it is being done for other biographies.
Sea Ane (
talk)
22:49, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
References
@ Homeostasis07: Please assume good-faith editing instead of accusing another editor, who edited the article for the first time, of edit-warring. As I explained when reverting your revert, the RfC is about the lead, not the body, and the content was sourced from a reliable source that was already in the same section but whose content (paragraph just above Manson's photograph) had apparently been overlooked. Space4Time3Continuum2x ( talk) 05:27, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
@
Spy-cicle: Answering your question above: I'm referring to the quote from a Manson Instagram post, as cited by CNN, in the second paragraph of [Marilyn_Manson#Abuse_allegations]. these recent claims ... are horrible distortions of reality. My intimate relationships have always been entirely consensual with like-minded partners.
His lawyers also wrote that they were stories to turn what were consensual friendships and relationships with Warner from more than a decade ago, into twisted tales that bear no resemblance to reality
. To me that does not sound like denial of the violence, merely of it being non-consensual but that's my opinion which I haven't added to the article.
Space4Time3Continuum2x (
talk)
05:27, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
Following Wood's allegations, several other women made various allegations against Manson on Instagram." and "
In the months that followed, four women filed civil lawsuits against the vocalist...". The section's content before your edits was in chronological order, and isn't long enough to merit this repeating of information or for a summarizing statement. Your edit simply doesn't add anything to the article that wasn't already there. I don't really want to make a big stink about this, so am providing you with an opportunity to sort this out amongst ourselves before I take this further. Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 21:38, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
Aside from the personal attacks on me (and other editors, e.g., here), seems to me that it's you who should stop editing this article at least until you have cooled down and examined your own POV for neutrality. Space4Time3Continuum2x ( talk) 12:35, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
References
I propose the following change to the abuse allegations text from the end of the lead section:
In 2021, multiple women accused Manson of psychologically and sexually abusing them
, allegations which he has repeatedly denied; Manson has so far not been charged with any crime related to sexual or domestic violence.
I think this is a good compromise for those who think a counter claim is necessary and those who think Manson's denial is undue. The fact that he has yet to be charged with anything seems more important than him just denying it. –– FormalDude talk 11:29, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
In 2021, multiple women alleged Manson had been psychologically and sexually abusive, allegations he called a "coordinated attack" and repeatedly denied. As of September 2021, Manson has not been charged with any crime related to sexual or domestic violence.
Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 23:15, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
Somebody has written "Crowley's esoteric subject matter forms an important leitmotif in much of Manson's early work.[137]". Whoever has written this does not understand what leitmotif means, which is a musical phrase that is repeated and associated with a certain subject matter (like the Darth Vader theme). There is no leitmotif in the music of Marilyn Manson associated with Crowley. Perhaps the author meant 'theme'. 203.166.232.254 ( talk) 18:50, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
@ Spy-cicle:,@ FormalDude: I stand corrected on the citation, wasn't aware of the first paragraph of MOS:LEADCITE. I don't agree with this . "Repeatedly" is not neutral, it's op-ed (well, duh!). He denied the accusations, period. Space4Time3Continuum2x ( talk) 12:34, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
As per WP:ROLLINGSTONEPOLITICS (the shortcut link has a bad name; none of the false allegations in A Rape on Campus were political in nature), we can not use Rolling Stone to make serious allegations of abuse (such as the soundproof glass chamber allegation which is currently viral online right now). The allegations need to be confirmed by an actual reliable sources before they can be included in the Wikipedia. Samboy ( talk) 01:17, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
Along with the reporting on Manson's alleged domestic abuse of female ex-partners, there have been reports that Manson has engaged in sexual harassment, e.g. of Charlyne Yi (Yi's accusations were first reported on in 2018, but they've been reported again recently in articles discussing the recent lawsuits for alleged rape, abuse etc). Particularly given Charlyne Yi is notable enough to have her own article, I feel like there's an argument for including a brief mention of Yi's claims in Manson's article somewhere in the 'personal life' section? 90.246.212.113 ( talk) 01:46, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
It was English-German-Polish not Irish 2001:1C01:2BCA:3D00:A10C:1193:AE88:F7A3 ( talk) 01:30, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
While I don't believe consensus is needed to bring a BLP article in line with the policy, per
WP:EDITCONSENSUS, I would rather discuss than revert. As explained in
the edit summary, Wikipedia is
not a news source, and the running commentary currently included in the article clearly constitutes
WP:EXCESSDETAIL, i.e. "lawsuit dismissed on September 16
" ... "judge gave the complainant 20 days to refile an amended complaint
" ... "denied motion to dismiss on October 10
" ... ordered Manson to respond within two weeks
". The edit I made removed these
WP:TRIVIAL details while leaving intact the information that four different civil suits exist. Content should only be included if subject to
WP:SUSTAINED coverage. Is it important to the casual reader's understanding of this topic that a lawsuit was temporarily dismissed on September 16? Another user had previously removed the names of the accusers, as three of them are
WP:NOTPUBLICFIGURES and one of those is anonymous. This is all in line with
WP:BLP, and should have been uncontroversial, but would appreciate feedback from @
FormalDude: and others before reverting.
Homeostasis07 (
talk/
contributions)
22:31, 28 December 2021 (UTC)
Four women filed lawsuits against Manson...". Lawuits filed and dismissed and refiled; Manson "
ordered to respond within 20 days"; unencyclopedic, tabloidish verbiage like "
a woman who claims to be an ex-girlfriend of Manson who has chosen to remain anonymous"... unless a convincing, policy-based argument can be made for the inclusion of this material, it needs to go, per the WP:BLP policy. Suggest one of you do it, if you're genuinely interested in improving this article. Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 19:52, 30 December 2021 (UTC)
They filed a motion to dismiss these lawsuits, calling the claims "untrue, meritless" and alleging that several of the accusers "spent months plotting, workshopping, and fine-tuning their stories to turn what were consensual friendships and relationships with Warner from more than a decade ago, into twisted tales that bear no resemblance to reality"
Comment: For context, these are the changes Homeostasis07 is proposing:
On February 2, Manson issued a statement via Instagram, saying, "Obviously, my art and my life have long been magnets for controversy, but these recent claims about me are horrible distortions of reality. My intimate relationships have always been entirely consensual with like-minded partners." [1] His former wife Dita Von Teese stated that "the details made public do not match my personal experience during our 7 years together as a couple." [2] Former girlfriend Rose McGowan said that Manson was not abusive during their relationship but that her experience had "no bearing on whether he was like that with others before or after". [3]
¶The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department confirmed on February 19, 2021, that they were investigating Manson due to allegations of domestic violence. [4] As of September 2021, Manson has not been charged with any crime related to sexual or domestic violence. [5] [6]
In the months that followed Evan Rachel Wood's accusations,four women filed civil lawsuits against Manson seeking financial compensation: Esmé Bianco, [7] Ashley Morgan Smithline, [8] Manson's former employee, Ashley Walters, [9] and a woman who claims to be an ex-girlfriend of Manson who has chosen to remain anonymous.[10]Manson's legal team issued statements denying the allegations. [11] [12] They filed a motion to dismiss these lawsuits, calling the claims "untrue, meritless" and alleging that several of the accusers "spent months plotting, workshopping, and fine-tuning their stories to turn what were consensual friendships and relationships with Warner from more than a decade ago, into twisted tales that bear no resemblance to reality". [13]
The lawsuit filed by an anonymous woman was initially dismissed on September 16 because of the statute of limitations. [5] [14] The judge gave the complainant 20 days to file an amended complaint with additional details, which she did on September 23. [15] [16]
On October 10, 2021, a federal judge denied Manson's motion to dismiss Bianco's lawsuit and allowed the case to proceed. [17] [18] The judge ordered Manson to respond to Bianco's allegations within two weeks. [17]
I'll say more about why cutting this content is not the right thing to do as soon as I have some more time. ––
FormalDude
talk
07:32, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
References
This isn't a dispute, at least not from my end. Just a discussion to help improve the article. I probably won't be online for the next few days anyway, so it's not like there's a rush. Anyway, happy gregorian new year to everyone. Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 15:19, 31 December 2021 (UTC)
When material about living persons has been deleted on good-faith BLP objections, any editor wishing to add, restore, or undelete it must ensure it complies with Wikipedia's content policies. If it is to be restored without significant change, consensus must be obtained first." No effort has been made to address the issues currently found on the article, and I'm not seeing any legitimate counter-arguments to the policy-based concerns I raised here, specifically WP:NOTNEWS, WP:SUSTAINED and WP:TABLOID.With this in mind, I've edited the article again, but I've taken this discussion on-board and made minimal content removal this time. All I've done is rephrase the tabloid verbiage "
a woman who chose to remain anonymous and says she is an ex-girlfriend of Manson." to simply "an anonymous woman.", and removed descriptors of the complainants, e.g., "
model" and "
Manson's former employee", as these are the kinds of descriptors people read on the Daily Mail website and serve only to decimate the overall tone of the article. I've additionally WP:SUMMARYSTYLE truncated the proceeding details of the lawsuits, as Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a gossip site. The only content technically removed are the dates events occured ("
On October 10, 2021,", etc.) and the sentence fragment "
and allowed the case to proceed.". The latter is tautological; if the "federal judge denied Manson's motion to dismiss Bianco's lawsuit" – previous portion of sentence, still there – then it's redundant to say the case was "allowed to proceed". I've also removed the sentence "
The judge ordered Manson to respond to Bianco's allegations within two weeks.", since – all things considered – that will hardly be remembered as a significant case development. Important updates (i.e., long-term, subject to sustained coverage) regarding the lawsuits can then be neatly added to the end of the paragraph in future.Hope you both find this an acceptable compromise to this discussion which, again, I don't consider to be a dispute in any form... merely an attempt to remove unencyclopedic tabloid language and details. If required, I hope this discussion can continue in a respectful and productive tone. Homeostasis07 ( talk/ contributions) 22:19, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Add to associated acts column 2600:1003:B868:DFA7:A1F7:82BA:6344:7C00 ( talk) 03:07, 26 April 2022 (UTC)