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quote from a First Nation leader described this as a concentration camp. i wonder if this will change the narrative. im not going to categorize it as such, at least yet.(mercurywoodrose) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:5FA1:61B0:B509:71A2:9022:160D ( talk) 17:58, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
Searchign this document for "crooked lake boarding school" will return many details on the initial school. Not adding it myself as the nb in the history section regarding the first school is quite complicated. --- Possibly ☎ 20:23, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
This CBC article says that the bodies were discovered in a cemetery that was near the school. It is also less clear about whether it is known that the Catholic Church had in fact removed any markers, or if that was just speculation on Chief Delorme's part. Fullmetalalch ( talk) 00:29, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Though the media is using the term, zero evidence has been presented thus far to even suggest this was a literal "mass grave" as opposed to a cemetery. A mass grave is one large pit dug to inter dozens/hundreds/etc of bodies at once and they are placed beside and/or dumped on top of each other. Discovering bodies in the same area does not a mass grave make. The WP entry, however, presents this as factual. I'd suggest changing the term to "burial ground" or something similar until more details emerge. 216.154.4.118 ( talk) 14:32, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
216.154.4.118 ( talk) 00:10, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
The article says mass graves were discovered and then just goes to reactions about how families are being supported. Its not really clear what the graves or bodies are for or what they mean, is it simply the fact that people were (i assumed dumped in the graves), maybe some context that people have been searching for loved ones or something — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:53A1:E001:98AF:3FB3:FF75:4AFA ( talk) 16:50, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
"The Cowessess First Nation says 751 unmarked graves have been uncovered on the grounds of a former residential school in Saskatchewan." https://winnipeg.citynews.ca/2021/06/24/remains-saskatchewan-residential-school/ They never said mass graves. The School Opened in 1899, closed in 1997. 98 years, 751 unmarked graves, 7.7 per year on average. And the Spanish Flu pandemic has to be taken into account. Death rates back then were high. greater than 250 per 1000. There is no evidence of only child graves. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1041751/canada-all-time-child-mortality-rate/ This article needs facts. There is a grave yard with missing head stones and decayed head stones. So far no "mass grave".
The article quotes the source that correctly mentions it. Perhaps some sources also offer better precisions. Although illegal today, corporal punishment was common in most schools for a long time in Canada. — Paleo Neonate – 01:40, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
review
WP:NOR,
WP:V,
WP:SOAPBOX and
WP:SYNTH. WP does not editorialize, speculate, or come up with "plausible" anything.
|
---|
Has anyone investigated or consider the possibility that the spanish flu so dominant around 1918-1920 killed off many of the inhabitants, perhaps so many at once that the school (or other schools operating at the time) was overwhelmed? The flu of the time attacked the youngest most fiercely and killed millions worldwide. There are unmarked graves around the world from that period of time (generally 1918-1920). -- 2600:6C48:7006:200:B056:6066:1296:EF0B ( talk) 01:49, 29 June 2021 (UTC) It would not have to be the Spanish flu -- it was common for children to die of infectious diseases until the relatively very recent past, and it was even common at times of pandemics to use mass and/or unmarked graves -- as happened in New York City during Covid. My own uncle died in one of the many polio epidemics and was buried in what was until recently an unmarked grave (though the family had his name carved on one of the gravestones in the family plot -- where he is not interred). Any large-group living arrangement was especially susceptible, as we saw with military barracks during the Spanish flu and long-term care homes during Covid. BTW, as I write this, I am within a couple of miles of the previously unmarked mass grave (a genuinely "mass" grave) to Irish victims of the many diseases that swept the emigrant ships arriving in the mid-1800's. Unmarked graves are common in Canada where -- beyond Montreal, Vancouver or the Golden Armpit -- the population is sparse, services limited, and accessibility may be problematic even today. And just while I'm here, we also didn't (don't?) bury our dead in winter -- those little houses by our cemeteries are for when the ground is frozen. alacarte ( talk) 02:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
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Is there any media report about cause of death? -- 2402:3A80:1113:32A5:9C69:6192:35A6:4820 ( talk) 08:23, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
In nearly 50% of the cases (both in the Named and Unnamed registers), there is no recorded cause of death. From those cases where the cause of death was reported, it is clear that until the 1950s, the schools were the sites of an ongoing tuberculosis crisis. Tuberculosis accounted for just less than 50% of the recorded deaths (46.2% for the Named Register, and 47% for the Named and Unnamed registers combined). The tuberculosis death rate remained high until the 1950s: its decline coincides with the introduction of effective drug treatment. The next most frequently recorded causes of death were influenza (9.2% on the Named Register, and 9.1% of the deaths on the combined Named and Unnamed registers), pneumonia (6.9% on the Named Register, and 9.1% of the deaths on the combined Named and Unnamed registers), and general lung disease (3.4% on the Named Register, and 5.5% of the deaths on the combined Named and Unnamed registers).
Truth and Reconciliation report page 93, 2015
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Marieval Indian Residential School article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
A news item involving Marieval Indian Residential School was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 25 June 2021. |
This article is written in Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
quote from a First Nation leader described this as a concentration camp. i wonder if this will change the narrative. im not going to categorize it as such, at least yet.(mercurywoodrose) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:5FA1:61B0:B509:71A2:9022:160D ( talk) 17:58, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
Searchign this document for "crooked lake boarding school" will return many details on the initial school. Not adding it myself as the nb in the history section regarding the first school is quite complicated. --- Possibly ☎ 20:23, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
This CBC article says that the bodies were discovered in a cemetery that was near the school. It is also less clear about whether it is known that the Catholic Church had in fact removed any markers, or if that was just speculation on Chief Delorme's part. Fullmetalalch ( talk) 00:29, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Though the media is using the term, zero evidence has been presented thus far to even suggest this was a literal "mass grave" as opposed to a cemetery. A mass grave is one large pit dug to inter dozens/hundreds/etc of bodies at once and they are placed beside and/or dumped on top of each other. Discovering bodies in the same area does not a mass grave make. The WP entry, however, presents this as factual. I'd suggest changing the term to "burial ground" or something similar until more details emerge. 216.154.4.118 ( talk) 14:32, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
216.154.4.118 ( talk) 00:10, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
The article says mass graves were discovered and then just goes to reactions about how families are being supported. Its not really clear what the graves or bodies are for or what they mean, is it simply the fact that people were (i assumed dumped in the graves), maybe some context that people have been searching for loved ones or something — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:53A1:E001:98AF:3FB3:FF75:4AFA ( talk) 16:50, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
"The Cowessess First Nation says 751 unmarked graves have been uncovered on the grounds of a former residential school in Saskatchewan." https://winnipeg.citynews.ca/2021/06/24/remains-saskatchewan-residential-school/ They never said mass graves. The School Opened in 1899, closed in 1997. 98 years, 751 unmarked graves, 7.7 per year on average. And the Spanish Flu pandemic has to be taken into account. Death rates back then were high. greater than 250 per 1000. There is no evidence of only child graves. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1041751/canada-all-time-child-mortality-rate/ This article needs facts. There is a grave yard with missing head stones and decayed head stones. So far no "mass grave".
The article quotes the source that correctly mentions it. Perhaps some sources also offer better precisions. Although illegal today, corporal punishment was common in most schools for a long time in Canada. — Paleo Neonate – 01:40, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
review
WP:NOR,
WP:V,
WP:SOAPBOX and
WP:SYNTH. WP does not editorialize, speculate, or come up with "plausible" anything.
|
---|
Has anyone investigated or consider the possibility that the spanish flu so dominant around 1918-1920 killed off many of the inhabitants, perhaps so many at once that the school (or other schools operating at the time) was overwhelmed? The flu of the time attacked the youngest most fiercely and killed millions worldwide. There are unmarked graves around the world from that period of time (generally 1918-1920). -- 2600:6C48:7006:200:B056:6066:1296:EF0B ( talk) 01:49, 29 June 2021 (UTC) It would not have to be the Spanish flu -- it was common for children to die of infectious diseases until the relatively very recent past, and it was even common at times of pandemics to use mass and/or unmarked graves -- as happened in New York City during Covid. My own uncle died in one of the many polio epidemics and was buried in what was until recently an unmarked grave (though the family had his name carved on one of the gravestones in the family plot -- where he is not interred). Any large-group living arrangement was especially susceptible, as we saw with military barracks during the Spanish flu and long-term care homes during Covid. BTW, as I write this, I am within a couple of miles of the previously unmarked mass grave (a genuinely "mass" grave) to Irish victims of the many diseases that swept the emigrant ships arriving in the mid-1800's. Unmarked graves are common in Canada where -- beyond Montreal, Vancouver or the Golden Armpit -- the population is sparse, services limited, and accessibility may be problematic even today. And just while I'm here, we also didn't (don't?) bury our dead in winter -- those little houses by our cemeteries are for when the ground is frozen. alacarte ( talk) 02:44, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
|
Is there any media report about cause of death? -- 2402:3A80:1113:32A5:9C69:6192:35A6:4820 ( talk) 08:23, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
In nearly 50% of the cases (both in the Named and Unnamed registers), there is no recorded cause of death. From those cases where the cause of death was reported, it is clear that until the 1950s, the schools were the sites of an ongoing tuberculosis crisis. Tuberculosis accounted for just less than 50% of the recorded deaths (46.2% for the Named Register, and 47% for the Named and Unnamed registers combined). The tuberculosis death rate remained high until the 1950s: its decline coincides with the introduction of effective drug treatment. The next most frequently recorded causes of death were influenza (9.2% on the Named Register, and 9.1% of the deaths on the combined Named and Unnamed registers), pneumonia (6.9% on the Named Register, and 9.1% of the deaths on the combined Named and Unnamed registers), and general lung disease (3.4% on the Named Register, and 5.5% of the deaths on the combined Named and Unnamed registers).
Truth and Reconciliation report page 93, 2015