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The Cooper article-- or most of it-- appears to be online [1] but it displayed oddly when I previewed it after adding the url.
The article uses an odd definition of "trim", so I used another one from an online dictionary. The important point is that the stern was lower than the bow, which is well-handled in the efn. Kablammo ( talk) 20:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
Most disaster entries on Wikipedia seem to list the victims (or notable ones if the victim list is large). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.210.174 ( talk) 11:45, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
The term "calderbank condition" is not one that appears in legal textbooks. What does it mean? What were the terms of the settlement offer that was made?
This book explains quite well the three forms of offer that can be made to settle civil litigation in England:
Any offer can be accepted or rejected (or withdrawn before either) but a defendant's offer is not "withdrawn if a judge awarded a lower amount", it just falls away. Just as a claimaint can't wait for the judge to decide the case, and then accept a higher offer made previously by the defendant.
The effect of an offer being "without prejudice save as to costs" is that (unlike an "open" offer) the offer cannot be referred to in court until a determination is made of liability and quantum (i.e. whether the defendant is liable, and to what extent) at which point, if the Calderbank offer was higher that the judge's determination, it would affect the ability of the claimant to recover their legal costs from the time when the offer was made. (Rather than costs following the event, as is - or at least was - typically the case.)
With respect to the journalists of The Guardian in 1999, Lynne Wallis seemingly does not understand what a Calderbank offer is, and in any event a newspaper is not a reliable source for an explanation of legal terms. (A small point, but upper case is used almost universally for "Calderbank", named as it is after the litigants in the case of Calderbank v Calderbank in 1976.) 213.205.240.190 ( talk) 18:34, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
The article mentions the issueof whether watch was being kept on each vessel. But it says nothing about what lights were being shown. I recall this being discussed in the press at the time: there were accusations that that the Bowbelle was not displaying a bow light, whereas the disco boat was, inevitably, emitting any amount of light (and sound). Maproom ( talk) 16:12, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
sinking in less than a minute? why? Cramyourspam ( talk) 17:11, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
The upper superstructure of Marchioness was ripped off by Bowbelle's anchor.[44] The lower saloon was quickly flooded ... The weight and momentum of Bowbelle pushed Marchioness underwater and she sank, stern first, within 30 seconds of being hit". She was run over, split in two and pushed under by the heavier vessel. - SchroCat ( talk) 18:17, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
SS Californian, another ship that was subject to a controversial MAIB report around the same time as the Marchioness, in early 1992.
![]() | Please ping on reply. Thank you. |
This article currently uses ":" (lists) to indent text in blockquotes. I was sure I saw somewhere that this is not recommended, but I can't find where. If it is a problem, what can be done instead for indenting? Regards, DesertPipeline ( talk) 13:48, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:F099:E2EB:15CE:9C39, please do not continue to remove referenced content without explanation and with no attempt to discuss here. Please explain why you believe your opinions on this content should matter more than other editor's. Nordjyllands ( talk) 08:30, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
So the rafts (140) plus the lifebuoys (14) would accommodate 154 passengers. Why was she licensed to carry 165? Valetude ( talk) 00:59, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
There should be mention of the profound and far-reaching changes to MCA legislation, which is still happening to this day, brought about following the Marchioness disaster. 146.199.238.75 ( talk) 07:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Marchioness disaster article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() | Marchioness disaster is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 20, 2019. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
![]() | Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on August 20, 2011, August 20, 2014, and August 20, 2021. | ||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
![]() | This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The Cooper article-- or most of it-- appears to be online [1] but it displayed oddly when I previewed it after adding the url.
The article uses an odd definition of "trim", so I used another one from an online dictionary. The important point is that the stern was lower than the bow, which is well-handled in the efn. Kablammo ( talk) 20:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
Most disaster entries on Wikipedia seem to list the victims (or notable ones if the victim list is large). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.210.174 ( talk) 11:45, 3 February 2022 (UTC)
The term "calderbank condition" is not one that appears in legal textbooks. What does it mean? What were the terms of the settlement offer that was made?
This book explains quite well the three forms of offer that can be made to settle civil litigation in England:
Any offer can be accepted or rejected (or withdrawn before either) but a defendant's offer is not "withdrawn if a judge awarded a lower amount", it just falls away. Just as a claimaint can't wait for the judge to decide the case, and then accept a higher offer made previously by the defendant.
The effect of an offer being "without prejudice save as to costs" is that (unlike an "open" offer) the offer cannot be referred to in court until a determination is made of liability and quantum (i.e. whether the defendant is liable, and to what extent) at which point, if the Calderbank offer was higher that the judge's determination, it would affect the ability of the claimant to recover their legal costs from the time when the offer was made. (Rather than costs following the event, as is - or at least was - typically the case.)
With respect to the journalists of The Guardian in 1999, Lynne Wallis seemingly does not understand what a Calderbank offer is, and in any event a newspaper is not a reliable source for an explanation of legal terms. (A small point, but upper case is used almost universally for "Calderbank", named as it is after the litigants in the case of Calderbank v Calderbank in 1976.) 213.205.240.190 ( talk) 18:34, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
The article mentions the issueof whether watch was being kept on each vessel. But it says nothing about what lights were being shown. I recall this being discussed in the press at the time: there were accusations that that the Bowbelle was not displaying a bow light, whereas the disco boat was, inevitably, emitting any amount of light (and sound). Maproom ( talk) 16:12, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
sinking in less than a minute? why? Cramyourspam ( talk) 17:11, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
The upper superstructure of Marchioness was ripped off by Bowbelle's anchor.[44] The lower saloon was quickly flooded ... The weight and momentum of Bowbelle pushed Marchioness underwater and she sank, stern first, within 30 seconds of being hit". She was run over, split in two and pushed under by the heavier vessel. - SchroCat ( talk) 18:17, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
SS Californian, another ship that was subject to a controversial MAIB report around the same time as the Marchioness, in early 1992.
![]() | Please ping on reply. Thank you. |
This article currently uses ":" (lists) to indent text in blockquotes. I was sure I saw somewhere that this is not recommended, but I can't find where. If it is a problem, what can be done instead for indenting? Regards, DesertPipeline ( talk) 13:48, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
2A00:23C7:2B86:9800:F099:E2EB:15CE:9C39, please do not continue to remove referenced content without explanation and with no attempt to discuss here. Please explain why you believe your opinions on this content should matter more than other editor's. Nordjyllands ( talk) 08:30, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
So the rafts (140) plus the lifebuoys (14) would accommodate 154 passengers. Why was she licensed to carry 165? Valetude ( talk) 00:59, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
There should be mention of the profound and far-reaching changes to MCA legislation, which is still happening to this day, brought about following the Marchioness disaster. 146.199.238.75 ( talk) 07:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)