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How does Marceline have an article yet Finn, Jake, Bubble Gum Princess, and Ice King all don't? How is she more notable than them? -- Mrmoustache14 ( talk) 02:25, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Well honestly I have no intention of making them, I was just curious why the 5th most important character from a show had an article when the first 4 had not... -- Mrmoustache14 ( talk) 19:48, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
If you're going to do that, I'd say if Marceline is notable BP is definitely as well. -- Mrmoustache14 ( talk) 20:50, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
It repeats constantly what episode reveals what rather than allowing the cite episode refs handle that. That's why their there for, so that we don't have to constantly say "Source A reveals this" and "Source B reveals that".
On another note, this has an "other appearances" which mainly is just brief cameos within the series. It's far too trivial to find each and every single appearance she makes when its in the same series and not important enough to be mentioned at all. It tries to record every single detail of Marceline and its leading to collect all the trivial too.
I find the tone sounding way too WP:FANCRUFT. It's just too specific and leaning toward in-universe. Lucia Black ( talk) 23:01, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
I don't want to be bold and remove it, but considering it doesn't really have a satisfactory Fair Use rationale, it will probably get deleted. Is there really a reason that it is needed? The information can be conveyed in text, and it really isn't THAT essential to understand the character. Besides, this page has three non-free images, which is pushing it for a GA.-- Gen. Quon (Talk) 22:55, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
Re-reviewing the article, it still too precise within prose about certain things. For example, this article should be all related to Marceline yet we see Finn, Jake and Abadeer's voice actors. This needs a lot more copy editing then i thought. The article may have been nominated for GA a little too early but i guess its not that far off for a GAR, so i suggest attempting to rewrite all in-universe info from present-tense to past-tense. It will also help summarize the info better. I found a few choppy sentences here and there. If you see any, be sure to copy edit it in a more formal and educative tone. Ive mention this before but lets avoid mentioning things in an "episode"-like way to avoid making the article sound guide-like. Lucia Black ( talk) 08:19, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Not true. Whichever project told you this, is clearly wrong, there is a way to present in-universe info without changing the tone of the article. Thats like writing "promotion" info in a "promotional" way. It is Also innacurate. Who ever told you this is straying editors of good editing. It also doesnt make sense more than half of the "appearance" section was already past tense. Lucia Black ( talk) 14:22, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
This article presents the information in mainly "Fictional History" as the link you yourself provided with WP:TENSE states that "past tense" is allowed. Obviously certain aspects is mandatory to be present tense because they are physically present tense such as "Marceline is a fictional character". But you cant deny that everything has to be present tense is wrong, such as Marceline "is" an antagonist (and short lived) and now a good friend of Finn and Jake, you cant present both aspects in present tense. The other link provides absolute nothing on allowing sentences to start "In episode X this ever happened. <ref>Episode X</ref>" Problem is thats already close to redundancy as the ref already covers what episode, and actually hurts the article by using too much self reference. By removin "In episode X" you dont treat the article in a guideline of Marceline-related episodes and more of a general biography, making the episodes as refs more relevant. Its too guide like to do so within prose and guide-like structure within in-universe info is WP:FANCRUFT in my book. In fact the guideline provided states to not get too intricate in fictional biography and certain episodes are listed here that provide no new info about her such as getting a new bass guitar.
Its not "accusation" for the one getting strayed. Its the "strayer". Regardless you initially used anonymous wikiproject, so i wasnt left with much. If you provided policies and MOS first, it wouldnt have been an issue. Lucia Black ( talk) 01:40, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Keep it constructive please. This is most certainly not "ridiculous". Lets keep this a discussion, not an argument. Initially yes you stated your reasons, but that doesnt mean you refuted all points i made. I also provided new points, so you most certainly did not refute "all". In fact, you misunderstood most of it when i stated past tense. Obviously i wasnt referring to present tense info to be past tense, but all fictional history. The links you provided proves that. Also most the GAs you provided are not similar in anyway to the what im referring to, most of them split character info by media, not episodes and some by season, however still doesnt have the level of intricacy this article is leading to. Then there were ones that made no sense why you brought them, one of them was Clover (creature). The very few that do it were Nikita, Adrian Monk, and Elle Bishop. And even then, they didnt use it regularly. Actually im sure you can agree how shocking some of these articles made it to GA class as certain sections having no refs at all. Point being, you use "Episode X" reveals such info and use that very episode as a ref. So we might aswell NOT mention it in prose if we're using it as a reference aswell. Its still redundant in both prose and its still guidelike. WP:NOTGUIDE isnt limited to just the bullets listed, if any article falls with the same issues WP:NOTGUIDE provides, it counts. You also change your point aswell, initially stating that it has to be in-universe, and suddenly stating its out-of-universe.
But here's the thing, the setup you so vaguely defend hurts the article rather than help as it makes the article too intricate in detail, guide-like, and unnecessary to do. Lucia Black ( talk) 06:34, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
What's that? So a few people post comments on a youtube page or blog and thus something become a controversy due to a minority opinion and fringe theory. So again the sources are limited and not reliable. This is really great example of why Reliable Sources and Undue Weight needs to be read. Of course someone will just proclaim reliable source, ok but Newsrama the only reliable source here doesn't elaborate enough. My view is a minority opinion that purported #1 a lesbian relationship is controversial, and #2 a fringe theory interpreted that the creators were implying a lesbian relationship. The episode still airs and there has been no outcry from the expected outlets like religious groups, so I think undue weight is being given to a minority opinion and this content is being added without a NPOV and reliable sources .
is the cosplay image really necessary? i can't find any info on the body of the article relating to cosplay, so its difficult to keep such an image without coverage on it. Lucia Black ( talk) 03:52, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
With the whole Barnes and Noble panel thing exploding, I feel we need to discuss the ramifactions of what Olson said and how best to handle it. I feel that while Olivia Olson is a notable person, her comments do not really in any way confirm that Marceline is currently in a relationship with Princess Bubblegum, only that the crew members/Pen wanted her to be in one. There's a difference between confirming what the staff originally wanted and everyone screaming " canon" and jumping at the gun to categorize her as an LGBT character. Thoughts?-- Gen. Quon (Talk) 19:28, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
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Would it be better to use this image instead [1]? The current one I don't believe is a great example of Marceline. Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 19:28, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Marceline the Vampire Queen article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Marceline the Vampire Queen has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
|
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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How does Marceline have an article yet Finn, Jake, Bubble Gum Princess, and Ice King all don't? How is she more notable than them? -- Mrmoustache14 ( talk) 02:25, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
Well honestly I have no intention of making them, I was just curious why the 5th most important character from a show had an article when the first 4 had not... -- Mrmoustache14 ( talk) 19:48, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
If you're going to do that, I'd say if Marceline is notable BP is definitely as well. -- Mrmoustache14 ( talk) 20:50, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
It repeats constantly what episode reveals what rather than allowing the cite episode refs handle that. That's why their there for, so that we don't have to constantly say "Source A reveals this" and "Source B reveals that".
On another note, this has an "other appearances" which mainly is just brief cameos within the series. It's far too trivial to find each and every single appearance she makes when its in the same series and not important enough to be mentioned at all. It tries to record every single detail of Marceline and its leading to collect all the trivial too.
I find the tone sounding way too WP:FANCRUFT. It's just too specific and leaning toward in-universe. Lucia Black ( talk) 23:01, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
I don't want to be bold and remove it, but considering it doesn't really have a satisfactory Fair Use rationale, it will probably get deleted. Is there really a reason that it is needed? The information can be conveyed in text, and it really isn't THAT essential to understand the character. Besides, this page has three non-free images, which is pushing it for a GA.-- Gen. Quon (Talk) 22:55, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
Re-reviewing the article, it still too precise within prose about certain things. For example, this article should be all related to Marceline yet we see Finn, Jake and Abadeer's voice actors. This needs a lot more copy editing then i thought. The article may have been nominated for GA a little too early but i guess its not that far off for a GAR, so i suggest attempting to rewrite all in-universe info from present-tense to past-tense. It will also help summarize the info better. I found a few choppy sentences here and there. If you see any, be sure to copy edit it in a more formal and educative tone. Ive mention this before but lets avoid mentioning things in an "episode"-like way to avoid making the article sound guide-like. Lucia Black ( talk) 08:19, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Not true. Whichever project told you this, is clearly wrong, there is a way to present in-universe info without changing the tone of the article. Thats like writing "promotion" info in a "promotional" way. It is Also innacurate. Who ever told you this is straying editors of good editing. It also doesnt make sense more than half of the "appearance" section was already past tense. Lucia Black ( talk) 14:22, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
This article presents the information in mainly "Fictional History" as the link you yourself provided with WP:TENSE states that "past tense" is allowed. Obviously certain aspects is mandatory to be present tense because they are physically present tense such as "Marceline is a fictional character". But you cant deny that everything has to be present tense is wrong, such as Marceline "is" an antagonist (and short lived) and now a good friend of Finn and Jake, you cant present both aspects in present tense. The other link provides absolute nothing on allowing sentences to start "In episode X this ever happened. <ref>Episode X</ref>" Problem is thats already close to redundancy as the ref already covers what episode, and actually hurts the article by using too much self reference. By removin "In episode X" you dont treat the article in a guideline of Marceline-related episodes and more of a general biography, making the episodes as refs more relevant. Its too guide like to do so within prose and guide-like structure within in-universe info is WP:FANCRUFT in my book. In fact the guideline provided states to not get too intricate in fictional biography and certain episodes are listed here that provide no new info about her such as getting a new bass guitar.
Its not "accusation" for the one getting strayed. Its the "strayer". Regardless you initially used anonymous wikiproject, so i wasnt left with much. If you provided policies and MOS first, it wouldnt have been an issue. Lucia Black ( talk) 01:40, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Keep it constructive please. This is most certainly not "ridiculous". Lets keep this a discussion, not an argument. Initially yes you stated your reasons, but that doesnt mean you refuted all points i made. I also provided new points, so you most certainly did not refute "all". In fact, you misunderstood most of it when i stated past tense. Obviously i wasnt referring to present tense info to be past tense, but all fictional history. The links you provided proves that. Also most the GAs you provided are not similar in anyway to the what im referring to, most of them split character info by media, not episodes and some by season, however still doesnt have the level of intricacy this article is leading to. Then there were ones that made no sense why you brought them, one of them was Clover (creature). The very few that do it were Nikita, Adrian Monk, and Elle Bishop. And even then, they didnt use it regularly. Actually im sure you can agree how shocking some of these articles made it to GA class as certain sections having no refs at all. Point being, you use "Episode X" reveals such info and use that very episode as a ref. So we might aswell NOT mention it in prose if we're using it as a reference aswell. Its still redundant in both prose and its still guidelike. WP:NOTGUIDE isnt limited to just the bullets listed, if any article falls with the same issues WP:NOTGUIDE provides, it counts. You also change your point aswell, initially stating that it has to be in-universe, and suddenly stating its out-of-universe.
But here's the thing, the setup you so vaguely defend hurts the article rather than help as it makes the article too intricate in detail, guide-like, and unnecessary to do. Lucia Black ( talk) 06:34, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
What's that? So a few people post comments on a youtube page or blog and thus something become a controversy due to a minority opinion and fringe theory. So again the sources are limited and not reliable. This is really great example of why Reliable Sources and Undue Weight needs to be read. Of course someone will just proclaim reliable source, ok but Newsrama the only reliable source here doesn't elaborate enough. My view is a minority opinion that purported #1 a lesbian relationship is controversial, and #2 a fringe theory interpreted that the creators were implying a lesbian relationship. The episode still airs and there has been no outcry from the expected outlets like religious groups, so I think undue weight is being given to a minority opinion and this content is being added without a NPOV and reliable sources .
is the cosplay image really necessary? i can't find any info on the body of the article relating to cosplay, so its difficult to keep such an image without coverage on it. Lucia Black ( talk) 03:52, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
With the whole Barnes and Noble panel thing exploding, I feel we need to discuss the ramifactions of what Olson said and how best to handle it. I feel that while Olivia Olson is a notable person, her comments do not really in any way confirm that Marceline is currently in a relationship with Princess Bubblegum, only that the crew members/Pen wanted her to be in one. There's a difference between confirming what the staff originally wanted and everyone screaming " canon" and jumping at the gun to categorize her as an LGBT character. Thoughts?-- Gen. Quon (Talk) 19:28, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
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Would it be better to use this image instead [1]? The current one I don't believe is a great example of Marceline. Blue Pumpkin Pie Chat Contribs 19:28, 17 March 2020 (UTC)