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Marc was born in Vitebsk ( Віцебск) city. Now the city is in Republic Belarus. At Chagal time they (both the city and Belarus) belonged to Russian Imperia. I think, it's correct to put:
-- ZmiLa 13:13, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
We need to say what his legal name was at the time of his birth. With the 3 versions we have at the moment, I'm still confused.
By this logic, Adam Mickiewicz should also be listed as "Russian Poet". Belarus did not fall under Russian Empire in a peaceful manner. Claiming Marc Chagall as Russian is promotion of Colonialism! Seizing land with an army and then poaching all cultural value and claiming it as yours is WRONG! Citizenship is one thing, Nationality is completely different! The way some of you are suggesting to post his birthplace - insinuates zero difference between Russia and Belarus. Trill ille ( talk) 14:44, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
We must change the Chagall page and replace Russian with Belarusian. Malevich was born in Kyiv, but Kyiv at that time was part of the Russian empire. But still, in the English version of his page, he is a Ukrainian artist (according to MoMA as well). And it’s 100% correct. Marina Anderson-Zubkova ( talk) 21:23, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
A convincing amount of evidence indicates that Marc Chagall was born on July 7th, not July 6th. According to an article in the New York Times, Chagall himself celebrated his 90th birthday on July 7th, 1977: https://www.nytimes.com/1977/07/09/archives/happy-birthday-sung-to-chagall.html Another NYT article also referred to July 7th as his birthday: https://www.nytimes.com/1977/11/26/archives/chagall-at-90-is-a-growing-artist.html A comprehensive biography also states that July 7th was Chagall's birthday: Chagall: A Biography, by Jackie Wullschlager (2008). His birth date should, I think, be corrected in this Wikipedia entry. Gallium31 ( talk) 03:05, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Vanjagenije, both Chagall's Belarusian and Jewish nationality were important parts of his background, and per WP:ETHNICITY, should be included - Chagall is regarded as iconic in Belarus, and both his Belarusian and Jewish background formed a significant part of his art and life in general. This is reflected in the sources that were provided, as well as the Marc Chagall Museum's biography of Chagall, as seen here.
Another comparison is Francysk Skaryna, who, despite being from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, is regarded as Belarusian rather than Lithuanian, and Isaac Bashevis Singer, whose Jewish life also formed a significant part of his work, and who is regarded as "Polish-born" despite having likewise spent the vast majority of his professional career outside of Poland. Much like Singer with Poland, Chagall's experiences as a Belarusian Jew, rather than simply a Jew in the Russian Empire, shaped his work - this is something which is also reflected in provided sources. Therefore, per WP:ETHNICITY, it is entirely appropriate to refer to him as a Belarusian Jewish artist.
Mupper-san ( talk) 17:25, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
I have replaced the initial "Israel" with "Mandatory Palestine", but I can't with good conscience replace the other uses, as they contain paraphrases of what Chagall said. I think in some places "Eretz Yisrael" might be good, in others "Palestine", or "the Levant" are better. Still in other cases, I'd have to know what Chagall actually said.
But whatever it is replaced with, it is historically incorrect to talk about "Israel", without any qualifiers, before 1948. As this whole section takes place in 1931 or thereabouts, the use of "Israel" is wrong, and should be replaced. -- 91.64.59.91 ( talk) 15:30, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Marc Chagall article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 365 days |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Marc was born in Vitebsk ( Віцебск) city. Now the city is in Republic Belarus. At Chagal time they (both the city and Belarus) belonged to Russian Imperia. I think, it's correct to put:
-- ZmiLa 13:13, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
We need to say what his legal name was at the time of his birth. With the 3 versions we have at the moment, I'm still confused.
By this logic, Adam Mickiewicz should also be listed as "Russian Poet". Belarus did not fall under Russian Empire in a peaceful manner. Claiming Marc Chagall as Russian is promotion of Colonialism! Seizing land with an army and then poaching all cultural value and claiming it as yours is WRONG! Citizenship is one thing, Nationality is completely different! The way some of you are suggesting to post his birthplace - insinuates zero difference between Russia and Belarus. Trill ille ( talk) 14:44, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
We must change the Chagall page and replace Russian with Belarusian. Malevich was born in Kyiv, but Kyiv at that time was part of the Russian empire. But still, in the English version of his page, he is a Ukrainian artist (according to MoMA as well). And it’s 100% correct. Marina Anderson-Zubkova ( talk) 21:23, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
A convincing amount of evidence indicates that Marc Chagall was born on July 7th, not July 6th. According to an article in the New York Times, Chagall himself celebrated his 90th birthday on July 7th, 1977: https://www.nytimes.com/1977/07/09/archives/happy-birthday-sung-to-chagall.html Another NYT article also referred to July 7th as his birthday: https://www.nytimes.com/1977/11/26/archives/chagall-at-90-is-a-growing-artist.html A comprehensive biography also states that July 7th was Chagall's birthday: Chagall: A Biography, by Jackie Wullschlager (2008). His birth date should, I think, be corrected in this Wikipedia entry. Gallium31 ( talk) 03:05, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Vanjagenije, both Chagall's Belarusian and Jewish nationality were important parts of his background, and per WP:ETHNICITY, should be included - Chagall is regarded as iconic in Belarus, and both his Belarusian and Jewish background formed a significant part of his art and life in general. This is reflected in the sources that were provided, as well as the Marc Chagall Museum's biography of Chagall, as seen here.
Another comparison is Francysk Skaryna, who, despite being from the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, is regarded as Belarusian rather than Lithuanian, and Isaac Bashevis Singer, whose Jewish life also formed a significant part of his work, and who is regarded as "Polish-born" despite having likewise spent the vast majority of his professional career outside of Poland. Much like Singer with Poland, Chagall's experiences as a Belarusian Jew, rather than simply a Jew in the Russian Empire, shaped his work - this is something which is also reflected in provided sources. Therefore, per WP:ETHNICITY, it is entirely appropriate to refer to him as a Belarusian Jewish artist.
Mupper-san ( talk) 17:25, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
I have replaced the initial "Israel" with "Mandatory Palestine", but I can't with good conscience replace the other uses, as they contain paraphrases of what Chagall said. I think in some places "Eretz Yisrael" might be good, in others "Palestine", or "the Levant" are better. Still in other cases, I'd have to know what Chagall actually said.
But whatever it is replaced with, it is historically incorrect to talk about "Israel", without any qualifiers, before 1948. As this whole section takes place in 1931 or thereabouts, the use of "Israel" is wrong, and should be replaced. -- 91.64.59.91 ( talk) 15:30, 5 February 2024 (UTC)