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Manti is part of the Armenian cuisine it is wide spread. This source: "Armenian Food: Fact, Fiction & Folklore By Irina Petrosian, David Underwood" says it all about the Armenian foods explains how it originated or how Armenians observed it into there cuisine or culture for Mantı . Nareklm 15:01, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Did you folks know that Korean cuisine has a dish called "Mantuk", or similr sounding? It basically Manti we know, but bigger parts, more regular and round, and soupy. It clearly points to the Central Asian origins. Murat ( talk) 02:30, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
I've never seen this "bibliography section" type of a sourcing anywhere else. It sounds like the english essays with pharaphrasing we did in the university. Can someone with a good command on how sourcing works can fix that section? I'll do it if nobody else does but I guess first I'll have to learn how to. Ombudsee 08:29, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Should we split the article into two as Mantı and Mantu? As far as I see Mantı (Anatolian version, namely Turkish and Armenian versions) are quite different from Mantu (the central asian versions by the Kazakh, Uzbek and the Afghan) in terms of sizes, serving, style of serving, and style of cooking (I mean look at the pictures) We can link the articles to each other and mention about the etimology and the similarities but imho it's absurd to put all of them together in the same article just because their name sound similar. Regards, Kerem Özcan ( talk) 01:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move. PeterSymonds (talk) 12:41, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Manti and mantu are closely related historically (see Zaida & Tapper, Charles Perry, Anderson & Buell). I think they should not be separated. Ellenois ( talk) 02:22, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Mantı → Manti (dumpling) — the original name of the article Mantı cannot be typed on a standard English keyboard — Zlerman ( talk) 12:11, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.I have added the paragraph to the Afghan section as the regions in which mantu are consumed in Pakistan are on the Afghan border and this dish has been made popular due to close cultural links with the Badakhshan province of Northern Afghanistan. Please do not delete it again. If you wish to seperate it from the Afghanistan section, then create a new Pakistan section. [Unsigned comment by anon User:119.152.246.129 12:23 25 September 2008. Info added by -- Zlerman ( talk) 13:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
I tagged the article as unbalanced and as having disputed factual accuracy due to the following statements:
-- Gordon Ecker ( talk) 22:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know if the name of the dish originated with Chinese " mantou" (Korean mandu)? Thanks! -- 152.3.130.195 ( talk) 12:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
According to Charles Perry (article in Anderson & Buell) and Gene Anderson and Paul Buell, A Soup for the Qan, the source is actually in the Turkic language and entered Chinese when the Mongols, with their large cohort of Turkic peoples, ruled China. Ellenois ( talk) 02:24, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
I think the history section is in need of modification. Manti of the former Ottoman Empire is of Armenian style manti because it is distinct from the Central Asian manti of today. I wish this would have a separate category otherwise everything in the dumpling category can be described as manti including ravioli, baozi, jiaozi, wonton, mandu (Korean), khinkali, etc. What Central Asians eat as manti today is vastly different than what Armenians eat, because Armenian manti is small whereas Cenral Asian manti is apparently larger and eaten differently. Turkish manti is also small, taking after Armenian manti. In the book Armenian Food: Fact, Fiction & Folklore the authors explain that Manti is indeed of Asian origin but it was not brought by migrating Turkic tribes, but rather during the alliance of the Mongols and Armenians in the middle ages through their friendly interaction. Consequently the Armenians developed their own style of manti-making where it was later adopted by the Ottoman Turks. The mongol-Armenian alliance was some 200 years before the Ottoman period. Note that the Armenian-Mongol Alliance was with (western) Cilician Armenia, whereas the Armenians in Eastern Armenia have another style of manti called khinkali which was also brought by the Mongols by way of Georgia. In the article on Mandu, apparently in Korea mandu = manti was also brought by the Mongols further reinforcing these facts. Thus the fact remains that Armenian style manti (which is also part of Turkish cuisine but not Turkish-Azerbaijani) is distict from the manti of Central Asia - the idea may have come from there by Mongolia to Clician Armenia, but the two foods are not the same, and I would like to hear opinions on how to address this issue. Thinkfood ( talk) 18:24, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
Is there any difference between Manti and Nikuman besides meat of different livestock used. If they are similar link should be added to both articles. From the description of Nikuman and my own experience with Manti they look pretty much the same thing to me. SydykovAybek ( talk) 09:32, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
In Bosnian cuisine, the name manti IS known and used as well. See here, for instance: http://www.bosanskikuhar.ba/tag/klepe/ -andy 2.242.207.241 ( talk) 12:24, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Off-shell There is a reason I removed the source sras as unreliable. There is no such word as "mantau" in Uyghur. Go try looking it up, you will find no other source spelling it that way. Ask User:Rjanag what it is called in Uyghur. Rajmaan ( talk) 17:21, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
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The lede photo should be clearly a picture of manti - you can't tell what they are from just a few dumplings in a steamer. They could be pork buns or anything else. The excuse that I am trying to push some bias for "Turkish manti" is incredible, since the first image I put up was of Armenian manti and that was reverted too to push the lede photo. The reversions are also damaging to the formatting - I spaced the photos out correctly so the page looks much better then the version that is being reverted to. Seraphim System ( talk) 05:21, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello Seraphim System, this is to avoid edit warring. Please learn first what different styles of manti in different countries and regions mean. There are several sources in the article. Manti were probably created by Uyghurs and brought to Anatolia. The big manti filled with pumpkin (kawa manta) are typical Uyghur manti. The image is from an Uyghur restaurant. Uzbek manti as shown on the other image are typical for Central Asia; that image was made in Uzbekistan. Throughout Central Asia, manti are steamed and have this "complex" shape. The steamer has several typical regional names. At least one photo in a steamer is therefore necessary, either in the lede or in the text. You removed both. Your comments "it is not clear that it is manti - these are steamed dumplings, only etymology is the same" or "if you go to the store and ask for "manti" this is what you will get" show that you know basically only manti common in Turkey (or more generally former Ottoman Empire), and believe that these are "the real" manti. People in different regions can go to different shops and get different manti as shown on the different pictures. The current article gives an overview of the different styles, based on the same etymology, and treates them equally. The images are carefully chosen to support the current text and show most characteristic features for the regional varieties. If you disagree with this view, then start a discussion on splitting the article in several different ones (Turkish, Central Asian etc.), but do not try to enforce one style as "THE TRUE MANTI". -- Off-shell ( talk) 05:26, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
Alternative names | Mantu | ||
---|---|---|---|
Type | Dumpling | ||
Created by | Disputed | ||
Main ingredients | Spiced meat ( lamb or ground beef) | ||
Ingredients generally used | Yogurt, Garlic |
Please, split Anatolian Turkish manti with Central Asian manti. Because Turkish manti are like Russian pelmeni or Uzbek chuchvara which are boiled in water to be cooked. Unlike Central Asian manti, which requires a multi-layer steam pot to prepare the food. It will be wise decision to put, Uzbek chuchvara, Russian pelmeni and Turkish manti into one category. Because they are exactly the same food, that's boiled and shaped to similar small forms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.14.54.2 ( talk) 01:51, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
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A popular type of Turkish manti is known as Kayseri mantisi, originally from Kayseri, an Anatolian city. Kayseri mantisi is tiny and served with yoghurt, melted butter (flavored with Aleppo pepper) and seasoning including dry mint and Aleppo pepper flakes. [1] It can also be served with the water or chicken broth it was boiled in, and often in Kayseri it is consumed as a soup prior to the main dish. In Kayseri, when a couple is engaged to be married, the mother of the groom visits the bride's house and during this visit the bride should prepare manti for her prospective mother-in-law. The smaller the manti dumplings are, the more skillful the bride is considered to be in the kitchen. Traditionally the dumplings prepared for the prospective mother-in law are supposed to be so small that 40 of them can be fit into one spoon. Manti may be made from shredded meat of quail, chicken or goose in some regions of Turkey, while boş mantı ("empty dumpling") lack filling entirely.
The section in bold seems to not only lack a proper source, but also clutter the page with out-of-place information. It could definitely use a touch-up in terms of tone. The Turkish word for the dish, given in italics, should rather be written with an ı character instead (Kayseri mantısı).
I also have a few personal things to note about this page, they're far from an objective judgement as you'd expect but I'd rather let a future editor know. I'm from Kayseri, having had my fair share of the dish, born and raised in Turkey. This is the first time I've read of mantı being cooked in or served with chicken broth. As for baking, while it does exist, it certainly isn't very common. These traditions the page talks about regarding mantı are quite foreign to me. As for tatar böreği, I wouldn't consider it a similar dish to the mantı I'm familiar with to be perfectly honest. -- Foora ( talk) 18:16, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).== Proposed merge of
Tatar böreği into
Manti (food) ==
There is a tatar borek in Oxford Symposium work [3] larger, like pierogi/piruhi, but called tatar borek when filled with meat. These are not served with yogurt, according to Oxford Symposium. The term is also in use for manti (served with yogurt, see the cited sources for Tatar böreği). Is the yogurt version the same dish as manti? Spudlace ( talk) 21:40, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
References
" While the Chinese word mantou has been suggested as the origin for the word manti, different Chinese characters have been used to address same food in the past which indicates the Chinese attempted to adapt a foreign word to their writing system.[2] "
The source cited is The Oxford Companion to Food (3rd ed.) by Davidson. The source states, "There's no solid evidence that the Chinese word has foreign origins" in one section, and "Mantou is the Chinese reflex of a word known all over Asia... It is almost certainly Turkic." The former suggests an origin within China, the latter among Turkic peoples. Perhaps the phrase can better reflect the ambiguity of origin, rather than taking a single approach aligned with the latter POV. Without further research and sourcing, we just won't know one way or the other.
The former is not well elaborated given the constraints of Google Books' previews. I'll do a simple exercise in reason. Having different names to refer to the same object through time is not a necessary or sufficient condition for that object to be foreign. For a country that is large, old, and linguistically diverse, one would not be surprised to find many cases of different words used to describe everyday objects either concurrently or through time. On the flip-side, obsolete words may be linguistic supporting evidence of a loaned object if they are backed up by other historicity, or by archaeology. I'm not aware of such corroborating evidence, but again, I cannot fully read the source because of a paywall.
Consider changing the sentence to (for example):
" Chinese mantou may be either the origin or a borrowing of the food known as Central Asian manti. [2]"
This way the sentence presents itself as crisp and concise - and eliminates the single-sided POV.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Manti is part of the Armenian cuisine it is wide spread. This source: "Armenian Food: Fact, Fiction & Folklore By Irina Petrosian, David Underwood" says it all about the Armenian foods explains how it originated or how Armenians observed it into there cuisine or culture for Mantı . Nareklm 15:01, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Did you folks know that Korean cuisine has a dish called "Mantuk", or similr sounding? It basically Manti we know, but bigger parts, more regular and round, and soupy. It clearly points to the Central Asian origins. Murat ( talk) 02:30, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
I've never seen this "bibliography section" type of a sourcing anywhere else. It sounds like the english essays with pharaphrasing we did in the university. Can someone with a good command on how sourcing works can fix that section? I'll do it if nobody else does but I guess first I'll have to learn how to. Ombudsee 08:29, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Should we split the article into two as Mantı and Mantu? As far as I see Mantı (Anatolian version, namely Turkish and Armenian versions) are quite different from Mantu (the central asian versions by the Kazakh, Uzbek and the Afghan) in terms of sizes, serving, style of serving, and style of cooking (I mean look at the pictures) We can link the articles to each other and mention about the etimology and the similarities but imho it's absurd to put all of them together in the same article just because their name sound similar. Regards, Kerem Özcan ( talk) 01:46, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move. PeterSymonds (talk) 12:41, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Manti and mantu are closely related historically (see Zaida & Tapper, Charles Perry, Anderson & Buell). I think they should not be separated. Ellenois ( talk) 02:22, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Mantı → Manti (dumpling) — the original name of the article Mantı cannot be typed on a standard English keyboard — Zlerman ( talk) 12:11, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.I have added the paragraph to the Afghan section as the regions in which mantu are consumed in Pakistan are on the Afghan border and this dish has been made popular due to close cultural links with the Badakhshan province of Northern Afghanistan. Please do not delete it again. If you wish to seperate it from the Afghanistan section, then create a new Pakistan section. [Unsigned comment by anon User:119.152.246.129 12:23 25 September 2008. Info added by -- Zlerman ( talk) 13:04, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
I tagged the article as unbalanced and as having disputed factual accuracy due to the following statements:
-- Gordon Ecker ( talk) 22:51, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know if the name of the dish originated with Chinese " mantou" (Korean mandu)? Thanks! -- 152.3.130.195 ( talk) 12:44, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
According to Charles Perry (article in Anderson & Buell) and Gene Anderson and Paul Buell, A Soup for the Qan, the source is actually in the Turkic language and entered Chinese when the Mongols, with their large cohort of Turkic peoples, ruled China. Ellenois ( talk) 02:24, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
I think the history section is in need of modification. Manti of the former Ottoman Empire is of Armenian style manti because it is distinct from the Central Asian manti of today. I wish this would have a separate category otherwise everything in the dumpling category can be described as manti including ravioli, baozi, jiaozi, wonton, mandu (Korean), khinkali, etc. What Central Asians eat as manti today is vastly different than what Armenians eat, because Armenian manti is small whereas Cenral Asian manti is apparently larger and eaten differently. Turkish manti is also small, taking after Armenian manti. In the book Armenian Food: Fact, Fiction & Folklore the authors explain that Manti is indeed of Asian origin but it was not brought by migrating Turkic tribes, but rather during the alliance of the Mongols and Armenians in the middle ages through their friendly interaction. Consequently the Armenians developed their own style of manti-making where it was later adopted by the Ottoman Turks. The mongol-Armenian alliance was some 200 years before the Ottoman period. Note that the Armenian-Mongol Alliance was with (western) Cilician Armenia, whereas the Armenians in Eastern Armenia have another style of manti called khinkali which was also brought by the Mongols by way of Georgia. In the article on Mandu, apparently in Korea mandu = manti was also brought by the Mongols further reinforcing these facts. Thus the fact remains that Armenian style manti (which is also part of Turkish cuisine but not Turkish-Azerbaijani) is distict from the manti of Central Asia - the idea may have come from there by Mongolia to Clician Armenia, but the two foods are not the same, and I would like to hear opinions on how to address this issue. Thinkfood ( talk) 18:24, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
Is there any difference between Manti and Nikuman besides meat of different livestock used. If they are similar link should be added to both articles. From the description of Nikuman and my own experience with Manti they look pretty much the same thing to me. SydykovAybek ( talk) 09:32, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
In Bosnian cuisine, the name manti IS known and used as well. See here, for instance: http://www.bosanskikuhar.ba/tag/klepe/ -andy 2.242.207.241 ( talk) 12:24, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Off-shell There is a reason I removed the source sras as unreliable. There is no such word as "mantau" in Uyghur. Go try looking it up, you will find no other source spelling it that way. Ask User:Rjanag what it is called in Uyghur. Rajmaan ( talk) 17:21, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Manti (food). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The lede photo should be clearly a picture of manti - you can't tell what they are from just a few dumplings in a steamer. They could be pork buns or anything else. The excuse that I am trying to push some bias for "Turkish manti" is incredible, since the first image I put up was of Armenian manti and that was reverted too to push the lede photo. The reversions are also damaging to the formatting - I spaced the photos out correctly so the page looks much better then the version that is being reverted to. Seraphim System ( talk) 05:21, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello Seraphim System, this is to avoid edit warring. Please learn first what different styles of manti in different countries and regions mean. There are several sources in the article. Manti were probably created by Uyghurs and brought to Anatolia. The big manti filled with pumpkin (kawa manta) are typical Uyghur manti. The image is from an Uyghur restaurant. Uzbek manti as shown on the other image are typical for Central Asia; that image was made in Uzbekistan. Throughout Central Asia, manti are steamed and have this "complex" shape. The steamer has several typical regional names. At least one photo in a steamer is therefore necessary, either in the lede or in the text. You removed both. Your comments "it is not clear that it is manti - these are steamed dumplings, only etymology is the same" or "if you go to the store and ask for "manti" this is what you will get" show that you know basically only manti common in Turkey (or more generally former Ottoman Empire), and believe that these are "the real" manti. People in different regions can go to different shops and get different manti as shown on the different pictures. The current article gives an overview of the different styles, based on the same etymology, and treates them equally. The images are carefully chosen to support the current text and show most characteristic features for the regional varieties. If you disagree with this view, then start a discussion on splitting the article in several different ones (Turkish, Central Asian etc.), but do not try to enforce one style as "THE TRUE MANTI". -- Off-shell ( talk) 05:26, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
Alternative names | Mantu | ||
---|---|---|---|
Type | Dumpling | ||
Created by | Disputed | ||
Main ingredients | Spiced meat ( lamb or ground beef) | ||
Ingredients generally used | Yogurt, Garlic |
Please, split Anatolian Turkish manti with Central Asian manti. Because Turkish manti are like Russian pelmeni or Uzbek chuchvara which are boiled in water to be cooked. Unlike Central Asian manti, which requires a multi-layer steam pot to prepare the food. It will be wise decision to put, Uzbek chuchvara, Russian pelmeni and Turkish manti into one category. Because they are exactly the same food, that's boiled and shaped to similar small forms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.14.54.2 ( talk) 01:51, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Manti (food). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
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A popular type of Turkish manti is known as Kayseri mantisi, originally from Kayseri, an Anatolian city. Kayseri mantisi is tiny and served with yoghurt, melted butter (flavored with Aleppo pepper) and seasoning including dry mint and Aleppo pepper flakes. [1] It can also be served with the water or chicken broth it was boiled in, and often in Kayseri it is consumed as a soup prior to the main dish. In Kayseri, when a couple is engaged to be married, the mother of the groom visits the bride's house and during this visit the bride should prepare manti for her prospective mother-in-law. The smaller the manti dumplings are, the more skillful the bride is considered to be in the kitchen. Traditionally the dumplings prepared for the prospective mother-in law are supposed to be so small that 40 of them can be fit into one spoon. Manti may be made from shredded meat of quail, chicken or goose in some regions of Turkey, while boş mantı ("empty dumpling") lack filling entirely.
The section in bold seems to not only lack a proper source, but also clutter the page with out-of-place information. It could definitely use a touch-up in terms of tone. The Turkish word for the dish, given in italics, should rather be written with an ı character instead (Kayseri mantısı).
I also have a few personal things to note about this page, they're far from an objective judgement as you'd expect but I'd rather let a future editor know. I'm from Kayseri, having had my fair share of the dish, born and raised in Turkey. This is the first time I've read of mantı being cooked in or served with chicken broth. As for baking, while it does exist, it certainly isn't very common. These traditions the page talks about regarding mantı are quite foreign to me. As for tatar böreği, I wouldn't consider it a similar dish to the mantı I'm familiar with to be perfectly honest. -- Foora ( talk) 18:16, 2 February 2020 (UTC)
Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).== Proposed merge of
Tatar böreği into
Manti (food) ==
There is a tatar borek in Oxford Symposium work [3] larger, like pierogi/piruhi, but called tatar borek when filled with meat. These are not served with yogurt, according to Oxford Symposium. The term is also in use for manti (served with yogurt, see the cited sources for Tatar böreği). Is the yogurt version the same dish as manti? Spudlace ( talk) 21:40, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
References
" While the Chinese word mantou has been suggested as the origin for the word manti, different Chinese characters have been used to address same food in the past which indicates the Chinese attempted to adapt a foreign word to their writing system.[2] "
The source cited is The Oxford Companion to Food (3rd ed.) by Davidson. The source states, "There's no solid evidence that the Chinese word has foreign origins" in one section, and "Mantou is the Chinese reflex of a word known all over Asia... It is almost certainly Turkic." The former suggests an origin within China, the latter among Turkic peoples. Perhaps the phrase can better reflect the ambiguity of origin, rather than taking a single approach aligned with the latter POV. Without further research and sourcing, we just won't know one way or the other.
The former is not well elaborated given the constraints of Google Books' previews. I'll do a simple exercise in reason. Having different names to refer to the same object through time is not a necessary or sufficient condition for that object to be foreign. For a country that is large, old, and linguistically diverse, one would not be surprised to find many cases of different words used to describe everyday objects either concurrently or through time. On the flip-side, obsolete words may be linguistic supporting evidence of a loaned object if they are backed up by other historicity, or by archaeology. I'm not aware of such corroborating evidence, but again, I cannot fully read the source because of a paywall.
Consider changing the sentence to (for example):
" Chinese mantou may be either the origin or a borrowing of the food known as Central Asian manti. [2]"
This way the sentence presents itself as crisp and concise - and eliminates the single-sided POV.