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It seems that Ruby Sparks (2012) should be a paradigmatic example of this? Ruby is conjured up literally from the imagination of the depressed male protagonist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:BB8:2002:1500:FDE5:7510:9B00:48C1 ( talk) 14:13, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Source for Zooey/Summer as MPDG? Because I thought the whole plot of that film was that she WASN'T a MPDG. She had her own goals and dreams (so she dumps the main character and proceeds to live that life). 93.182.134.163 ( talk) 18:00, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Would Maude from Harold and Maude count? She's _older_, but beyond that I think perhaps a perfect fit? Kaolin fire ( talk) 05:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
I was thinking Kate Winslet in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind captures it pretty well (and has the modern indie elements). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.49.100.92 ( talk) 19:14, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Finding good examples is problematic in that the archetype you're looking for in the term is incompatible with good writing, such that even good MPDG candidates usually have, at the very least, some tacked on motives. For instance, Maude in Harold and Maude clearly has her own goals and agenda, which are revealed (to the protagonist's chagrin) at the end of the film. Even Penny Lane becomes a meta-MPDG, as we and the protagonist see her backstage collapse in her attempt to play that inherently emptying role, not with the protagonist, but with another major character. So, not sure these two examples work, but perhaps they serve to gesture at the point. 69.178.57.36 ( talk) 07:04, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
I was thinking Lisa from Weird Science is definitely an MPDG. In light of the fact that I'm not quite certain if adding her would fall in the scope of this article as the commenter above referenced, I'll leave it to someone else to determine whether she's a good enough fit to add. Ø ( talk) 19:39, 30 January 2011 (UTC)Ø
Source for Shirley MacLaine in The Apartment? That character has a pretty dark story, and an awful lot going on. I'd be pretty surprised to see her seriously suggested as a good example. spoko ( talk) 18:56, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Madonna in Who's That Girl (1987 film)? Robert K S ( talk) 02:09, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Many have described Alaska from "Looking for Alaska" as an MPDG. A Google search for the two together turns up an unending list of blog posts on the topic, but I'm not sure what might be a reliable source. GCNovus ( talk) 17:26, 02 November 2011 (UTC)
I hadn't thought to look for Green's own thoughts on the subject. He discusses Alaska as an MPDG in the Destruction of Manic Pixie Dream Girls: "I actually think the MPDG criticism is more fairly leveled against a novel like, say, Looking for Alaska–in which the narrator, by nature of his circumstances, is never able to see the other as fully human." GCNovus ( talk) 23:02, 03 November 2011 (UTC)
Cassie from "The Nightmare Stacks" by Charles Stross is described by the author as a "maniac pixie dream girl". She superficially appears to fit the description perfectly, but it's an act to advance her own goals (conquest of Earth and enslavement of mankind). Her species are the source of legends of elves and other fae folk, so she is also literally a pixie, in a way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.107.186.18 ( talk) 16:41, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
MPDG is purely an American (United States) classification of stereotypical/stock characters. However, movies of non-American origins may have characters that correspond to MPDG. If so, those inclusions should be made into a separate section "Non-American media".
I extracted the following, removed it from the article and placed it here because without attribution of any reference, I take it as original research by whomever who inserted it:
I also further wish to modify its structure a little to make the sentence more acceptable:
Someone please work hard to find references to justify the inclusion of the above and insert it back into the article under the section name I proposed.
Hence Jewish Anderstein ( talk) 18:27, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
I have no clue what kind of references I would have to insert, but a classic example of a MPDG is Betty Blue in Betty Blue / 37°2 le matin.
I think the stereotype exists in literature also. Sabeth in Max Frisch's Home Faber comes to mind - she (and her lover, Faber) fit all the criteria. But we'd need somebody who knows more about literature to tell us if the cliché exists in literature as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.87.141.2 ( talk) 22:22, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
I think on this talk page it would be useful to compile a list of all the movies mentioned in this article (plus any others in the references or mentioned on this talk) and arrange them in chronological order.
Then, those who have trouble understanding this meme (like myself) could undergo a movie marathon, hopefully reflecting upon these characters and their roles, to understand it. Ranze ( talk) 06:16, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Diane Keaton's title character in "Annie Hall" doesn't fit the description of someone with no "inner life" or goals. Numerous scenes focus on her goal of singing and how she struggles with self-confidence in that regard, which has parallels to her uncertain approach to relationships. Her inner life is explored in discussions with her boyfriend (Woody Allen's character), her therapist, her discussion of her stage fright, her attachment to marijuana, etc. There's even a scene in which subtitles reveal her inner thoughts, which should disabuse anyone of the notion that the character lacks inner thoughts!
So to suggest that the movie presents her as having no inner life is misleading and inaccurate, which doesn't meet the standards of Wikipedia. Yet the entry puts her in a list of "Manic Pixie Dream Girls in film." This list doesn't include any qualification saying that this is just what some people have said and it may be questionable or ill-founded. That one writer in AV Club once labeled Annie Hall an MPDG without explanation isn't sufficient to make the MPDG label a fact about that character. It's a fact about what was once said about that character by one person.
Later in the Wikipedia article, there is some criticism of labeling Annie Hall as an MPDG. I could see leaving in that criticism along with any counterpoints. But the current inclusion of her in a list of MPDGs just as inaccurate as if the entry on "Annie Hall" called it a drama rather than a comedy. Even though labeling the genre of a movie is often a tricky judgment call, that would be quickly changed because it's clearly an inaccurate way to describe this movie. And even if it can sometimes be a close question whether a character is an MPDG, it's so clearly inaccurate in the case of Annie Hall that it should not be left up as if it were an unequivocal statement of fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaltcoh ( talk • contribs) 05:26, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
Preceding section was not signed. CapnZapp ( talk) 22:15, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
The article quality was really bad, since it conflated one critic's opinion for facts. We should not say "N.N is a Manic Pixie Dream Girl", whether we can source a critic saying so or not.
What we can do, however, is point to notable instances where a critic considers a character a MPDR, and say so. That is, not say N.N a MPDR, but that critic so-and-so said she was.
Article has been comprehensively improved. CapnZapp ( talk) 22:06, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Manic Pixie Dream Girl article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 180 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was the subject of an educational assignment in Fall 2014. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Cornell University/Online Communities (Fall 2014)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki. |
![]() | The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: |
It seems that Ruby Sparks (2012) should be a paradigmatic example of this? Ruby is conjured up literally from the imagination of the depressed male protagonist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:BB8:2002:1500:FDE5:7510:9B00:48C1 ( talk) 14:13, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
Source for Zooey/Summer as MPDG? Because I thought the whole plot of that film was that she WASN'T a MPDG. She had her own goals and dreams (so she dumps the main character and proceeds to live that life). 93.182.134.163 ( talk) 18:00, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
Would Maude from Harold and Maude count? She's _older_, but beyond that I think perhaps a perfect fit? Kaolin fire ( talk) 05:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
I was thinking Kate Winslet in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind captures it pretty well (and has the modern indie elements). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.49.100.92 ( talk) 19:14, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Finding good examples is problematic in that the archetype you're looking for in the term is incompatible with good writing, such that even good MPDG candidates usually have, at the very least, some tacked on motives. For instance, Maude in Harold and Maude clearly has her own goals and agenda, which are revealed (to the protagonist's chagrin) at the end of the film. Even Penny Lane becomes a meta-MPDG, as we and the protagonist see her backstage collapse in her attempt to play that inherently emptying role, not with the protagonist, but with another major character. So, not sure these two examples work, but perhaps they serve to gesture at the point. 69.178.57.36 ( talk) 07:04, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
I was thinking Lisa from Weird Science is definitely an MPDG. In light of the fact that I'm not quite certain if adding her would fall in the scope of this article as the commenter above referenced, I'll leave it to someone else to determine whether she's a good enough fit to add. Ø ( talk) 19:39, 30 January 2011 (UTC)Ø
Source for Shirley MacLaine in The Apartment? That character has a pretty dark story, and an awful lot going on. I'd be pretty surprised to see her seriously suggested as a good example. spoko ( talk) 18:56, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
Madonna in Who's That Girl (1987 film)? Robert K S ( talk) 02:09, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
Many have described Alaska from "Looking for Alaska" as an MPDG. A Google search for the two together turns up an unending list of blog posts on the topic, but I'm not sure what might be a reliable source. GCNovus ( talk) 17:26, 02 November 2011 (UTC)
I hadn't thought to look for Green's own thoughts on the subject. He discusses Alaska as an MPDG in the Destruction of Manic Pixie Dream Girls: "I actually think the MPDG criticism is more fairly leveled against a novel like, say, Looking for Alaska–in which the narrator, by nature of his circumstances, is never able to see the other as fully human." GCNovus ( talk) 23:02, 03 November 2011 (UTC)
Cassie from "The Nightmare Stacks" by Charles Stross is described by the author as a "maniac pixie dream girl". She superficially appears to fit the description perfectly, but it's an act to advance her own goals (conquest of Earth and enslavement of mankind). Her species are the source of legends of elves and other fae folk, so she is also literally a pixie, in a way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.107.186.18 ( talk) 16:41, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
MPDG is purely an American (United States) classification of stereotypical/stock characters. However, movies of non-American origins may have characters that correspond to MPDG. If so, those inclusions should be made into a separate section "Non-American media".
I extracted the following, removed it from the article and placed it here because without attribution of any reference, I take it as original research by whomever who inserted it:
I also further wish to modify its structure a little to make the sentence more acceptable:
Someone please work hard to find references to justify the inclusion of the above and insert it back into the article under the section name I proposed.
Hence Jewish Anderstein ( talk) 18:27, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
I have no clue what kind of references I would have to insert, but a classic example of a MPDG is Betty Blue in Betty Blue / 37°2 le matin.
I think the stereotype exists in literature also. Sabeth in Max Frisch's Home Faber comes to mind - she (and her lover, Faber) fit all the criteria. But we'd need somebody who knows more about literature to tell us if the cliché exists in literature as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.87.141.2 ( talk) 22:22, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
I think on this talk page it would be useful to compile a list of all the movies mentioned in this article (plus any others in the references or mentioned on this talk) and arrange them in chronological order.
Then, those who have trouble understanding this meme (like myself) could undergo a movie marathon, hopefully reflecting upon these characters and their roles, to understand it. Ranze ( talk) 06:16, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Diane Keaton's title character in "Annie Hall" doesn't fit the description of someone with no "inner life" or goals. Numerous scenes focus on her goal of singing and how she struggles with self-confidence in that regard, which has parallels to her uncertain approach to relationships. Her inner life is explored in discussions with her boyfriend (Woody Allen's character), her therapist, her discussion of her stage fright, her attachment to marijuana, etc. There's even a scene in which subtitles reveal her inner thoughts, which should disabuse anyone of the notion that the character lacks inner thoughts!
So to suggest that the movie presents her as having no inner life is misleading and inaccurate, which doesn't meet the standards of Wikipedia. Yet the entry puts her in a list of "Manic Pixie Dream Girls in film." This list doesn't include any qualification saying that this is just what some people have said and it may be questionable or ill-founded. That one writer in AV Club once labeled Annie Hall an MPDG without explanation isn't sufficient to make the MPDG label a fact about that character. It's a fact about what was once said about that character by one person.
Later in the Wikipedia article, there is some criticism of labeling Annie Hall as an MPDG. I could see leaving in that criticism along with any counterpoints. But the current inclusion of her in a list of MPDGs just as inaccurate as if the entry on "Annie Hall" called it a drama rather than a comedy. Even though labeling the genre of a movie is often a tricky judgment call, that would be quickly changed because it's clearly an inaccurate way to describe this movie. And even if it can sometimes be a close question whether a character is an MPDG, it's so clearly inaccurate in the case of Annie Hall that it should not be left up as if it were an unequivocal statement of fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaltcoh ( talk • contribs) 05:26, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
Preceding section was not signed. CapnZapp ( talk) 22:15, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
The article quality was really bad, since it conflated one critic's opinion for facts. We should not say "N.N is a Manic Pixie Dream Girl", whether we can source a critic saying so or not.
What we can do, however, is point to notable instances where a critic considers a character a MPDR, and say so. That is, not say N.N a MPDR, but that critic so-and-so said she was.
Article has been comprehensively improved. CapnZapp ( talk) 22:06, 15 November 2022 (UTC)