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We need to find the official name of the association that governed this national team. According to Henshaw, it was called the "Palestine Football Association". If this is dispute by other sources, please provide them here. Regards.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 14:41, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
representatives to the founding assembly of the Eretz Israel Football Association (EIFA), set to take place on 14 August in the Maccabi Eretz Israel offices on Hasolel Street in Jerusalem. Fourteen Jews and one Arab attended the meeting. The Maccabi members were: Rosenthal, Uri Nadav, Perez Dagan, Yosef Yekutieli, Yisrael Gott, Stephen Trek, Mordechai Ben-Dror, Ezra Ichilov, Yula Braun, Meir Kaspi and Ephraim Rubinstein. The Hapoel members were: Yisrael Karmi, Aaron Orik and Ephraim Pearlstein. The Arab representative was a member of the Nuseiba family and represented the Islamic A Nadi A-Riadi sports club. A five-member directorate was elected: three Maccabi members (Trek, Rosenthal and Yekutieli) and two Hapoel members (Karmi and Orik). Stephen Trek of Maccabi served as the first chairman of the Association.45 Because the EIFA delegates represented all Eretz Israel teams (no British representatives attended the founding assembly but they joined later. A British representative, Spicer, also served as the second chairman of the Association), it could request membership in FIFA. In December 1928 the Association was accepted provisionally by FIFA and on 17 May 1929 its membership became permanent.".
The Flag of Mandatory Palestine is probably the best flag to use for this article (if a flag has to be used), but during 1927-1948 it was basically an obscure merchant shipping flag, and I'm not sure it would have been associated with the team then... AnonMoos ( talk) 16:23, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
As the sources in the article already point out, this team is associated with the Israeli national team and not the Palestinian. Please provide wp:rs to prove differently. Infantom ( talk) 00:32, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
I am really wondering why you are still instisting that this team do not belong to Palestine as well as Israel. In 1928 there were both Arabs and Jews in the country if you forgot this fact. Despite being a team consisting of only Jewish players that is not a reason to devise it to Israel which appeared in 1948. The mandate was called Palestine or EY so the first name is legal to use it in the article. Here you have some reliable sources as a confirmation:
-- Opdire657 ( talk) 07:59, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
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Since the team’s first international matches were against Egypt, who are culturally similar to Palestinian Arabs, this obviously isn’t right. Issam Khalidi says that it was because “ Immediately, after being accepted in FIFA, the Jewish leadership started to dominate the Palestine Football Association by ensuring that Jews were the majority in it. This was accomplished by such strategies as imposing the Hebrew language and incorporating the Jewish flag in the federation’s logo.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by Onceinawhile ( talk • contribs) 23:10, 23 April 2020 (UTC+2) (UTC)
It's a bit more complex than that. While the Jewish leadership certainly did not encourage Arab participation, it was the Arab clubs that decided to leave the federation of their own accord, and create their own federation (from which Jews were officially excluded). See
The Palestinian soccer league: A microcosm of a national struggle
JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (
talk) 01:21, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Cited information cannot be deleted just because another source provides a different perspective. There is no wider literature on the matter besides these Henshaw, Khalid, and perhaps a few other folk. The solution here is to provide information on what both claim and leave it at that. We are not here to judge the validity of one claim over the other.-- MarshalN20 ✉ 🕊 19:47, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Struck comments by JungerMan Chips Ahoy!, a blocked and banned sockpuppet. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/NoCal100/Archive § 06 May 2020 and Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/NoCal100 for details. — Newslinger talk 16:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
The actual team logo depicted in the article seems to contradict Khalidi's claim (currently in the article text) that the Zionist flag was incorporated into the logo. Suggestions on how to resolve this?
JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (
talk) 17:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
I suggest you all find actual sources that dispute the claim. Our job is just to point out what Khalid claims, not to evaluate its truthiness.-- MarshalN20 ✉ 🕊 19:45, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
You need to read the documentation for the "dubious" template - it is specifically for such cases where the material is verifiable (i.e., there's no question Khalidi wrote that), but its veracity is dubious.
JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (
talk) 16:29, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Struck comments by JungerMan Chips Ahoy!, a blocked and banned sockpuppet. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/NoCal100/Archive § 06 May 2020 and Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/NoCal100 for details. — Newslinger talk 16:31, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
@ MarshalN20: has added back the sentence that says: "According to soccer historian Richard Henshaw, Palestinian Arabs, specifically those of Islamic beliefs, refrained from participating in football's early formation due to their resistance to "Western cultural institutions."
Can anyone bring a quote from Henshaw supporting this? I have used the snippet search at [5] but neither the word Islamic nor the phrase "cultural institutions" came up.
Onceinawhile ( talk) 20:52, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
@ Nehme1499: does the encyclopedia give a biography for Richard Henshaw? In the article we call him a historian, but I can't see any evidence of that. All I can find is that he was born in 1945. Onceinawhile ( talk) 16:57, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Another proof that Henshaw is wrong and Khalidi is right regarding the reason for this team being 100% Jewish, is that in the 1920s there were almost as many Christians as Jews in Palestine. Henshaw's sentence (blaming religion) does not explain why the Christian Palestinians also were not represented in the team, but Khalidi's explanation (blaming nationalism) does, since the majority of Christian Palestinians were and remain vehemently anti-Zionist. Onceinawhile ( talk) 18:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Several of the sources provided in the list are by, or cite, Issam Khalidi. So, to claim that recent research on the topic has proliferated and provide as evidence the same author cited multiple times is misleading. Also, it is important to consider that being a "historian" does not require an official academic degree. "Scholar" or "researcher" would also seem like appropriate descriptions, but neither Khalidi nor Henshaw are simply "writers" or "aficionados".-- MarshalN20 ✉ 🕊 05:02, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
He analyzes the reasons behind the Arab team’s loss and calls for the introduction of professional training, “like the Jews and the Egyptians are doing.”
— Sorek, p. 420
By 1939, when the rebellion subsided, Arab soccer players remained without any institutional framework
— Sorek, p. 420
Struck comments by JungerMan Chips Ahoy!, a blocked and banned sockpuppet. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/NoCal100/Archive § 06 May 2020 and Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/NoCal100 for details. — Newslinger talk 16:32, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change this wikitext:
{{nat fs start no caps}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=GK|name=[[Willy Berger]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=DF|name=[[Avraham Reznik]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=DF|name=[[Pinhas Fiedler]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Zalman Friedmann]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Gdalyahu Fuchs]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Yohanan Sukenik]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=FW|name=[[Amnon Harlap]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=FW|name=[[Avraham Nudelman]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Perry Kraus]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Paul Kastenbaum]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Haim Reich]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[David Weinberg (footballer)|David Weinberg]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Yaacov Levi-Meir]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Yaacov Zelibanski]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs end}}
to
{{nat fs start no caps}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=GK|name=[[Willy Berger]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.|Hapoel Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=DF|name=[[Avraham Reznik]]|age=|club=[[Maccabi Tel Aviv F.C.|Maccabi Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=DF|name=[[Pinhas Fiedler]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=DF|name=[[David Weinberg (footballer)|David Weinberg]]|age=|club=[[Maccabi Tel Aviv F.C.|Maccabi Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Zalman Friedmann]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.|Hapoel Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Gdalyahu Fuchs]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Haifa F.C.|Hapoel Haifa]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Yohanan Sukenik]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.|Hapoel Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Paul Kastenbaum]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Haim Reich]]|age=|club=[[Beitar Tel Aviv F.C.|Beitar Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=FW|name=[[Amnon Harlap]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.|Hapoel Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=FW|name=[[Avraham Nudelman]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.|Hapoel Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=FW|name=[[Yaacov Zelibanski]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Perry Kraus]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Yaacov Levi-Meir]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs end}} 76.103.46.252 ( talk) 22:30, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Nehme1499: I just noticed that the year that the Arab members left was the same year that the team played its first matches. Do you know which happened first? It would be good to clarify in the article. Onceinawhile ( talk) 20:00, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Afghanistan national football team which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 15:28, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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We need to find the official name of the association that governed this national team. According to Henshaw, it was called the "Palestine Football Association". If this is dispute by other sources, please provide them here. Regards.-- MarshalN20 | Talk 14:41, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
representatives to the founding assembly of the Eretz Israel Football Association (EIFA), set to take place on 14 August in the Maccabi Eretz Israel offices on Hasolel Street in Jerusalem. Fourteen Jews and one Arab attended the meeting. The Maccabi members were: Rosenthal, Uri Nadav, Perez Dagan, Yosef Yekutieli, Yisrael Gott, Stephen Trek, Mordechai Ben-Dror, Ezra Ichilov, Yula Braun, Meir Kaspi and Ephraim Rubinstein. The Hapoel members were: Yisrael Karmi, Aaron Orik and Ephraim Pearlstein. The Arab representative was a member of the Nuseiba family and represented the Islamic A Nadi A-Riadi sports club. A five-member directorate was elected: three Maccabi members (Trek, Rosenthal and Yekutieli) and two Hapoel members (Karmi and Orik). Stephen Trek of Maccabi served as the first chairman of the Association.45 Because the EIFA delegates represented all Eretz Israel teams (no British representatives attended the founding assembly but they joined later. A British representative, Spicer, also served as the second chairman of the Association), it could request membership in FIFA. In December 1928 the Association was accepted provisionally by FIFA and on 17 May 1929 its membership became permanent.".
The Flag of Mandatory Palestine is probably the best flag to use for this article (if a flag has to be used), but during 1927-1948 it was basically an obscure merchant shipping flag, and I'm not sure it would have been associated with the team then... AnonMoos ( talk) 16:23, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
As the sources in the article already point out, this team is associated with the Israeli national team and not the Palestinian. Please provide wp:rs to prove differently. Infantom ( talk) 00:32, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
I am really wondering why you are still instisting that this team do not belong to Palestine as well as Israel. In 1928 there were both Arabs and Jews in the country if you forgot this fact. Despite being a team consisting of only Jewish players that is not a reason to devise it to Israel which appeared in 1948. The mandate was called Palestine or EY so the first name is legal to use it in the article. Here you have some reliable sources as a confirmation:
-- Opdire657 ( talk) 07:59, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mandatory Palestine national football team. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:39, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
Since the team’s first international matches were against Egypt, who are culturally similar to Palestinian Arabs, this obviously isn’t right. Issam Khalidi says that it was because “ Immediately, after being accepted in FIFA, the Jewish leadership started to dominate the Palestine Football Association by ensuring that Jews were the majority in it. This was accomplished by such strategies as imposing the Hebrew language and incorporating the Jewish flag in the federation’s logo.” — Preceding unsigned comment added by Onceinawhile ( talk • contribs) 23:10, 23 April 2020 (UTC+2) (UTC)
It's a bit more complex than that. While the Jewish leadership certainly did not encourage Arab participation, it was the Arab clubs that decided to leave the federation of their own accord, and create their own federation (from which Jews were officially excluded). See
The Palestinian soccer league: A microcosm of a national struggle
JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (
talk) 01:21, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Cited information cannot be deleted just because another source provides a different perspective. There is no wider literature on the matter besides these Henshaw, Khalid, and perhaps a few other folk. The solution here is to provide information on what both claim and leave it at that. We are not here to judge the validity of one claim over the other.-- MarshalN20 ✉ 🕊 19:47, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Struck comments by JungerMan Chips Ahoy!, a blocked and banned sockpuppet. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/NoCal100/Archive § 06 May 2020 and Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/NoCal100 for details. — Newslinger talk 16:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
The actual team logo depicted in the article seems to contradict Khalidi's claim (currently in the article text) that the Zionist flag was incorporated into the logo. Suggestions on how to resolve this?
JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (
talk) 17:46, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
I suggest you all find actual sources that dispute the claim. Our job is just to point out what Khalid claims, not to evaluate its truthiness.-- MarshalN20 ✉ 🕊 19:45, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
You need to read the documentation for the "dubious" template - it is specifically for such cases where the material is verifiable (i.e., there's no question Khalidi wrote that), but its veracity is dubious.
JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (
talk) 16:29, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
Struck comments by JungerMan Chips Ahoy!, a blocked and banned sockpuppet. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/NoCal100/Archive § 06 May 2020 and Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/NoCal100 for details. — Newslinger talk 16:31, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
@ MarshalN20: has added back the sentence that says: "According to soccer historian Richard Henshaw, Palestinian Arabs, specifically those of Islamic beliefs, refrained from participating in football's early formation due to their resistance to "Western cultural institutions."
Can anyone bring a quote from Henshaw supporting this? I have used the snippet search at [5] but neither the word Islamic nor the phrase "cultural institutions" came up.
Onceinawhile ( talk) 20:52, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
@ Nehme1499: does the encyclopedia give a biography for Richard Henshaw? In the article we call him a historian, but I can't see any evidence of that. All I can find is that he was born in 1945. Onceinawhile ( talk) 16:57, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Another proof that Henshaw is wrong and Khalidi is right regarding the reason for this team being 100% Jewish, is that in the 1920s there were almost as many Christians as Jews in Palestine. Henshaw's sentence (blaming religion) does not explain why the Christian Palestinians also were not represented in the team, but Khalidi's explanation (blaming nationalism) does, since the majority of Christian Palestinians were and remain vehemently anti-Zionist. Onceinawhile ( talk) 18:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Several of the sources provided in the list are by, or cite, Issam Khalidi. So, to claim that recent research on the topic has proliferated and provide as evidence the same author cited multiple times is misleading. Also, it is important to consider that being a "historian" does not require an official academic degree. "Scholar" or "researcher" would also seem like appropriate descriptions, but neither Khalidi nor Henshaw are simply "writers" or "aficionados".-- MarshalN20 ✉ 🕊 05:02, 25 April 2020 (UTC)
He analyzes the reasons behind the Arab team’s loss and calls for the introduction of professional training, “like the Jews and the Egyptians are doing.”
— Sorek, p. 420
By 1939, when the rebellion subsided, Arab soccer players remained without any institutional framework
— Sorek, p. 420
Struck comments by JungerMan Chips Ahoy!, a blocked and banned sockpuppet. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/NoCal100/Archive § 06 May 2020 and Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/NoCal100 for details. — Newslinger talk 16:32, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change this wikitext:
{{nat fs start no caps}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=GK|name=[[Willy Berger]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=DF|name=[[Avraham Reznik]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=DF|name=[[Pinhas Fiedler]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Zalman Friedmann]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Gdalyahu Fuchs]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Yohanan Sukenik]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=FW|name=[[Amnon Harlap]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=FW|name=[[Avraham Nudelman]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Perry Kraus]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Paul Kastenbaum]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Haim Reich]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[David Weinberg (footballer)|David Weinberg]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Yaacov Levi-Meir]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Yaacov Zelibanski]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs end}}
to
{{nat fs start no caps}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=GK|name=[[Willy Berger]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.|Hapoel Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=DF|name=[[Avraham Reznik]]|age=|club=[[Maccabi Tel Aviv F.C.|Maccabi Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=DF|name=[[Pinhas Fiedler]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=DF|name=[[David Weinberg (footballer)|David Weinberg]]|age=|club=[[Maccabi Tel Aviv F.C.|Maccabi Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Zalman Friedmann]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.|Hapoel Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Gdalyahu Fuchs]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Haifa F.C.|Hapoel Haifa]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Yohanan Sukenik]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.|Hapoel Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Paul Kastenbaum]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=MF|name=[[Haim Reich]]|age=|club=[[Beitar Tel Aviv F.C.|Beitar Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=FW|name=[[Amnon Harlap]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.|Hapoel Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=FW|name=[[Avraham Nudelman]]|age=|club=[[Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.|Hapoel Tel Aviv]]|clubnat=ISR}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=FW|name=[[Yaacov Zelibanski]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs break}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Perry Kraus]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs player no caps|no=|pos=|name=[[Yaacov Levi-Meir]]|age=|club=|clubnat=PAL}} {{nat fs end}} 76.103.46.252 ( talk) 22:30, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Nehme1499: I just noticed that the year that the Arab members left was the same year that the team played its first matches. Do you know which happened first? It would be good to clarify in the article. Onceinawhile ( talk) 20:00, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Afghanistan national football team which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 15:28, 23 September 2023 (UTC)