This page is not a forum for general discussion about Mains electricity. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Mains electricity at the Reference desk. |
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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I am far from knowledgeable in the field, but in the US, and US-dominated online forums such as /., I often hear/see the "domestic electrical power supply" referred to as the "grid". It might be useful to add that term, rather than simply say that the term "mains" is not used in the US/Canada. -- Danny Rathjens 07:07, 2004 Aug 23 (UTC)
The term "Hydro" is a regional term in Canada - I suspect it's called that in provinces where the power companies have "hydro" in their name - Quebec Hydro, BC Hydro, Hydro One (Ontario), Manitoba Hydro. I've lived in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Nova Scotia and the only people I've heard call it "hydro" have been from Ontario. -- Thavron ( talk) 06:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I must confess that in over a half-century of being an American, I have yet to hear anyone use the three terms the lede says are in common use here. Most people I know refer to this as "household electric" regardless of what use the power provided is actually being put to. Daniel Case ( talk) 03:18, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
Um, I dunno what the usual practice is in the USA, but here in Australia there are plenty of devices - most of them for heating of one kind or another - that use the full capacity of the standard outlets. Electric kettles, electric frypans, and space heaters that use the full 10 amperes available are commonplace. Anybody like to put the case for retaining that claim in the article?-- Robert Merkel 07:43, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
It's idiosyncratic, at best, that the title of the article uses a regionalism that's unheard of by the great majority of the world's native English speakers. It really should have a more intuitive title, although with the numerous redirects that have been incorporated, most people should still be able to find it.
That being said...if you need that many redirects just so that people can still find an article despite its clunky title, that would be your tip-off that the title could use re-working, in the first place. User:2601:195:c100:f220:3daa:c769:ac63:12b9 06:04, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
Electrical grid says it covers the topic from Generating stations... to Distribution lines that connect individual customers. So that leaves AC power plugs and sockets, we have that. Mains electricity seems to be a regional colloquialism for power you get from an electrical grid, so named because it originally came into a house through a "main", as apposed to getting electrical power from batteries, a generator in the basement, photovoltaic systems, etc. So we seem to have what one group calls something, not what it is, i.e. WP:DICDEF territory. Fountains of Bryn Mawr ( talk) 22:17, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
WP:TITLEVAR and
MOS:ENGVAR say we're not allowed to just change from UK to US English on the theory that there are more people in the US than UK, but WP:TITLEVAR and
MOS:COMMONALITY do say that if there's a term that speakers of all dialect would understand, that's better than using the primary one from a single dialect. This is not the first time we've gotten complaints about the title, so perhaps it is too unfamilar for most Americans. (I have no problem understanding it, but I watch a lot of British TV.) So if we want to change the title of this article without changing its scope, I think we'd want to find a term that is comprehensible to UK readers, and also other countries. So far this article says only "mains" is used there; does anyone know what the other intelligible if less common terms are in the UK? It's unclear to me that it's a "colloquialism" as opposed to simply vocabulary that is strongly different in all UK vs. US dialects. The article also has no information about most other English-speaking countries, so I've planted some talk page messages around WikiProjects asking for input from
Indian,
South African, and
Australian English speakers. --
Beland (
talk)
01:29, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
The fact this article is still using a british term that the majority of english speakers would not understand is really silly. The page is rife with dubious terminology (saying socket instead of receptacle), british phrases that nobody understands ("the mains"). Labeling this article "power grid" makes zero sense either, the power grid refers to the infrastructure that transports power, not a wall receptacle voltage. This article should be titled "Residential Electrical Power" or something along those lines, because commercial and Industrial sites receive entirely different services. I'd also like to point out that the "Building wiring" section talks about the services that European homes get, but not a single mention of what happens in America (a single phase from the transformer, at 240V, with a neutral going to the centertap to allow 120V). There is also zero citations in most of these sections. I hate this article.
24.194.198.194 (
talk)
09:01, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
In describing US industrial voltages, the article mentions: but the common voltages listed here would still be found for lighting and portable equipment. While this is certainly true for plug-in equipment, including lighting, as well as I know 277V is very common for permanently wired lighting in larger buildings. (That is, line to neutral in a 277/480 system.) The 277/480 three-phase is also available for larger induction motor loads. For one, in larger buildings the lines from breaker panels to loads are longer, but also 277V is convenient for fluorescent lamp balances common in commercial building lighting. More recently, electronic fluorescent lamp ballasts will run from between 120V and 277V with no adjustment. Gah4 ( talk) 10:29, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
AFAIK - the normal US supply voltage is ~240v and it is thus very misleading to state it is ~120v. Within a domestic customer's building (eg a house) the common circuits - eg lighting, outlets, are wired only to 'one half' of the split-phase supply and thus operate at ~120v. However the incoming supply (for typical single residences etc) and up to the service panel (consumer unit) is centre tapped ~240v. The breakers for each circuit may connect to either 1 or 2 'line' busbars as appropriate for that circuit. So, ~240v is supplied and available for use as appropriate to need. Consequently, most portable and/or low power appliances plus most lighting equipments are designed to operate at ~120v. Higher power/'installed' equipments are designed for the split phase ~240v. This situation is directly comparable to the ~110v split phase arrangements used for construction equipment in the UK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.64.179.87 ( talk) 20:33, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
→mains refers to what happens when you measure a wall outlet. Almost all accessible receptacles in an American house are 120V. 240V are only used for driers, ovens, stoves, and air conditioners. So it is very much 120v. 24.194.198.194 ( talk) 08:47, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
This page is not a forum for general discussion about Mains electricity. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Mains electricity at the Reference desk. |
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
|
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 30 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
I am far from knowledgeable in the field, but in the US, and US-dominated online forums such as /., I often hear/see the "domestic electrical power supply" referred to as the "grid". It might be useful to add that term, rather than simply say that the term "mains" is not used in the US/Canada. -- Danny Rathjens 07:07, 2004 Aug 23 (UTC)
The term "Hydro" is a regional term in Canada - I suspect it's called that in provinces where the power companies have "hydro" in their name - Quebec Hydro, BC Hydro, Hydro One (Ontario), Manitoba Hydro. I've lived in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Nova Scotia and the only people I've heard call it "hydro" have been from Ontario. -- Thavron ( talk) 06:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I must confess that in over a half-century of being an American, I have yet to hear anyone use the three terms the lede says are in common use here. Most people I know refer to this as "household electric" regardless of what use the power provided is actually being put to. Daniel Case ( talk) 03:18, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
Um, I dunno what the usual practice is in the USA, but here in Australia there are plenty of devices - most of them for heating of one kind or another - that use the full capacity of the standard outlets. Electric kettles, electric frypans, and space heaters that use the full 10 amperes available are commonplace. Anybody like to put the case for retaining that claim in the article?-- Robert Merkel 07:43, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
It's idiosyncratic, at best, that the title of the article uses a regionalism that's unheard of by the great majority of the world's native English speakers. It really should have a more intuitive title, although with the numerous redirects that have been incorporated, most people should still be able to find it.
That being said...if you need that many redirects just so that people can still find an article despite its clunky title, that would be your tip-off that the title could use re-working, in the first place. User:2601:195:c100:f220:3daa:c769:ac63:12b9 06:04, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
Electrical grid says it covers the topic from Generating stations... to Distribution lines that connect individual customers. So that leaves AC power plugs and sockets, we have that. Mains electricity seems to be a regional colloquialism for power you get from an electrical grid, so named because it originally came into a house through a "main", as apposed to getting electrical power from batteries, a generator in the basement, photovoltaic systems, etc. So we seem to have what one group calls something, not what it is, i.e. WP:DICDEF territory. Fountains of Bryn Mawr ( talk) 22:17, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
WP:TITLEVAR and
MOS:ENGVAR say we're not allowed to just change from UK to US English on the theory that there are more people in the US than UK, but WP:TITLEVAR and
MOS:COMMONALITY do say that if there's a term that speakers of all dialect would understand, that's better than using the primary one from a single dialect. This is not the first time we've gotten complaints about the title, so perhaps it is too unfamilar for most Americans. (I have no problem understanding it, but I watch a lot of British TV.) So if we want to change the title of this article without changing its scope, I think we'd want to find a term that is comprehensible to UK readers, and also other countries. So far this article says only "mains" is used there; does anyone know what the other intelligible if less common terms are in the UK? It's unclear to me that it's a "colloquialism" as opposed to simply vocabulary that is strongly different in all UK vs. US dialects. The article also has no information about most other English-speaking countries, so I've planted some talk page messages around WikiProjects asking for input from
Indian,
South African, and
Australian English speakers. --
Beland (
talk)
01:29, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
The fact this article is still using a british term that the majority of english speakers would not understand is really silly. The page is rife with dubious terminology (saying socket instead of receptacle), british phrases that nobody understands ("the mains"). Labeling this article "power grid" makes zero sense either, the power grid refers to the infrastructure that transports power, not a wall receptacle voltage. This article should be titled "Residential Electrical Power" or something along those lines, because commercial and Industrial sites receive entirely different services. I'd also like to point out that the "Building wiring" section talks about the services that European homes get, but not a single mention of what happens in America (a single phase from the transformer, at 240V, with a neutral going to the centertap to allow 120V). There is also zero citations in most of these sections. I hate this article.
24.194.198.194 (
talk)
09:01, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
In describing US industrial voltages, the article mentions: but the common voltages listed here would still be found for lighting and portable equipment. While this is certainly true for plug-in equipment, including lighting, as well as I know 277V is very common for permanently wired lighting in larger buildings. (That is, line to neutral in a 277/480 system.) The 277/480 three-phase is also available for larger induction motor loads. For one, in larger buildings the lines from breaker panels to loads are longer, but also 277V is convenient for fluorescent lamp balances common in commercial building lighting. More recently, electronic fluorescent lamp ballasts will run from between 120V and 277V with no adjustment. Gah4 ( talk) 10:29, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
AFAIK - the normal US supply voltage is ~240v and it is thus very misleading to state it is ~120v. Within a domestic customer's building (eg a house) the common circuits - eg lighting, outlets, are wired only to 'one half' of the split-phase supply and thus operate at ~120v. However the incoming supply (for typical single residences etc) and up to the service panel (consumer unit) is centre tapped ~240v. The breakers for each circuit may connect to either 1 or 2 'line' busbars as appropriate for that circuit. So, ~240v is supplied and available for use as appropriate to need. Consequently, most portable and/or low power appliances plus most lighting equipments are designed to operate at ~120v. Higher power/'installed' equipments are designed for the split phase ~240v. This situation is directly comparable to the ~110v split phase arrangements used for construction equipment in the UK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.64.179.87 ( talk) 20:33, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
→mains refers to what happens when you measure a wall outlet. Almost all accessible receptacles in an American house are 120V. 240V are only used for driers, ovens, stoves, and air conditioners. So it is very much 120v. 24.194.198.194 ( talk) 08:47, 15 July 2021 (UTC)