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Mahathir Mohamad article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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![]() | Mahathir Mohamad was the
Malaysian collaboration of the month for January 2008. For details on improvements made to the article, see history of past collaborations. Malaysian WikiProject |
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from Mahathir Mohamad was copied or moved into Second premiership of Mahathir Mohamad. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: ZKang123 ( talk · contribs) 04:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Ah... Mahathir Mohamed. Certainly a controversial person who likes to piss off Singaporeans from time to time especially over the water price. So, let me do the honours by doing a GA review of this page. Given the length of this article, the review will take some time.--
ZKang123 (
talk) 04:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Rate | Attribute | Review Comment |
---|---|---|
1. Well-written: | ||
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1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. | |
![]() |
1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. | |
2. Verifiable with no original research: | ||
![]() |
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. | |
![]() |
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). | |
![]() |
2c. it contains no original research. | |
![]() |
2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. | |
3. Broad in its coverage: | ||
![]() |
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. | |
![]() |
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). | |
![]() |
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. | |
![]() |
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. | |
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: | ||
![]() |
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. | |
![]() |
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. | |
![]() |
7. Overall assessment. |
I also almost forgot to do this, but I ran the article through Earwig. There are certain direct lifting of quotes of what he had said, especially on LGBT, and his criticism of OIC and Israel. But I further encourage rephrasing some of the quotes instead of entirely lifting.
As of now, no edit warring, though from what I last heard he's in treatment at the moment..-- ZKang123 ( talk) 08:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
The lead is still way too long. Typically per WP:LEAD it should be four paragraphs or less. The last two paragraphs, which touches on Mahathir's later political career, could be further summarised. Maybe it could be summarised as:
-- ZKang123 ( talk) 05:30, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
More to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 04:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
While the article, at first glance, seems comprehensive, I felt there's a lack of substance and depth behind providing necessary context and explanations. Especially under the section of "early political career", which I say would further benefit with explaining the political context of Malaya at the time. Some sections, especially on foreign relations, could also benefit by reorganizing the essential points, such as how ties deteriorated when Mahathir disagreed with Gore's call for freedom and democracy in Asia.
I'm puzzled that the section of his relations with neighboring Singapore is very thin and brief, given he has raised many issues, and that we have a larger section on Bosnia. I felt there's undue weight given to Bosnia over Singapore.
I suggest you could take a look at similar articles, such as Robert Mugabe (who lived nearly as long as Mahathir until 2019), Winston Churchill and perhaps Lee Kuan Yew. The last might not be a GA, but it has gone through significant rewrites to focus more on the important bits.
I might continue reviewing and see if the article can be salvaged to GA. But I do suggest reorganizing the essential points instead of just blow-by-blow accounts and lifting quotes of what he said on world affairs in general.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 08:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Just an observation, in the section Return to politics (2015–2018), Lee Kuan Yew was mentioned a few times, sometimes using his full name, sometimes his surname. As the mention of Lee is in close proximity, there is no ambiguity on which Lee is being mentioned, so per MOS:SURNAME, we should reduce to just Lee. -- Justanothersgwikieditor ( talk) 03:00, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
More to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 06:03, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Other comments:
More to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 08:58, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
More comments to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 12:19, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
More to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 01:48, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
More to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 03:13, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
More to come. -- ZKang123 ( talk) 07:51, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
I see plenty of source formatting issues. Version reviewed.
This is all I can go through, but help check the other half of the references.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 13:27, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
As much as I wish to help this article attain GA status, halfway through reviewing, I regret to say I find this article still contains various ungrammatical and unecyclopedic prose and source formatting issues. The point of a GA review is not to hand-hold editors until their article is up to an acceptable standard, but instead point out small mistakes that help polish up the work; the number of issues listed in my above review was well above the minimum that other reviewers would use to quick-fail a nomination.
Personally, I find this article gives quite a lot more weight to his recent political life than his first premiership. This might be understandable given more accessible coverage, but some details could be better summarised.
I will like to present two options:
These are my general thoughts. The article could still see better polish, and having it copyedited thoroughly would benefit it a lot.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 00:25, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
From myself, nothing else.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 02:54, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
Oh Im unaware. I thought its the second reviewer who decides whether to pass. Alright, since everything else is good, I decided to pass.--
ZKang123 (
talk) 09:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
97198
talk 12:43, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Arcahaeoindris ( talk). Self-nominated at 12:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Mahathir Mohamad; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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|
QPQ: Done. |
It seems odd to me that this section of the article is titled "Allegations of antisemitism," rather than something like "Antisemitic comments" or just "Antisemitism." Saying that Mahathir has only been "accused" of antisemitism, saying that he has "allegations" of antisemitism seems a bit too close to whitewashing the comments listed in this section. These well-documented and repeated comments all rely on blatantly antisemitic tropes and conspiracy theories, up to and including Holocaust denial. Mahathir has himself said he is proud to have been called an antisemite. I would understand using the word "allegations" in the section heading if it was just one event or if he only used mildly antisemitic tropes, but Mahathir's antisemitic comments have been frequent and extreme and have been made throughout his political career. Wouldn't it be reasonable for us to rename this section? WiJaMa ( talk) 03:55, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Add his doctor title in his infobox 2400:4050:8841:EE00:A44B:6EB4:B144:B679 ( talk) 03:17, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mahathir Mohamad article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3 |
![]() | Mahathir Mohamad has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Mahathir Mohamad was the
Malaysian collaboration of the month for January 2008. For details on improvements made to the article, see history of past collaborations. Malaysian WikiProject |
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from Mahathir Mohamad was copied or moved into Second premiership of Mahathir Mohamad. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() |
|
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: ZKang123 ( talk · contribs) 04:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Ah... Mahathir Mohamed. Certainly a controversial person who likes to piss off Singaporeans from time to time especially over the water price. So, let me do the honours by doing a GA review of this page. Given the length of this article, the review will take some time.--
ZKang123 (
talk) 04:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Rate | Attribute | Review Comment |
---|---|---|
1. Well-written: | ||
![]() |
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. | |
![]() |
1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. | |
2. Verifiable with no original research: | ||
![]() |
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. | |
![]() |
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). | |
![]() |
2c. it contains no original research. | |
![]() |
2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. | |
3. Broad in its coverage: | ||
![]() |
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. | |
![]() |
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). | |
![]() |
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. | |
![]() |
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. | |
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: | ||
![]() |
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. | |
![]() |
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. | |
![]() |
7. Overall assessment. |
I also almost forgot to do this, but I ran the article through Earwig. There are certain direct lifting of quotes of what he had said, especially on LGBT, and his criticism of OIC and Israel. But I further encourage rephrasing some of the quotes instead of entirely lifting.
As of now, no edit warring, though from what I last heard he's in treatment at the moment..-- ZKang123 ( talk) 08:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
The lead is still way too long. Typically per WP:LEAD it should be four paragraphs or less. The last two paragraphs, which touches on Mahathir's later political career, could be further summarised. Maybe it could be summarised as:
-- ZKang123 ( talk) 05:30, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
More to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 04:43, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
While the article, at first glance, seems comprehensive, I felt there's a lack of substance and depth behind providing necessary context and explanations. Especially under the section of "early political career", which I say would further benefit with explaining the political context of Malaya at the time. Some sections, especially on foreign relations, could also benefit by reorganizing the essential points, such as how ties deteriorated when Mahathir disagreed with Gore's call for freedom and democracy in Asia.
I'm puzzled that the section of his relations with neighboring Singapore is very thin and brief, given he has raised many issues, and that we have a larger section on Bosnia. I felt there's undue weight given to Bosnia over Singapore.
I suggest you could take a look at similar articles, such as Robert Mugabe (who lived nearly as long as Mahathir until 2019), Winston Churchill and perhaps Lee Kuan Yew. The last might not be a GA, but it has gone through significant rewrites to focus more on the important bits.
I might continue reviewing and see if the article can be salvaged to GA. But I do suggest reorganizing the essential points instead of just blow-by-blow accounts and lifting quotes of what he said on world affairs in general.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 08:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
Just an observation, in the section Return to politics (2015–2018), Lee Kuan Yew was mentioned a few times, sometimes using his full name, sometimes his surname. As the mention of Lee is in close proximity, there is no ambiguity on which Lee is being mentioned, so per MOS:SURNAME, we should reduce to just Lee. -- Justanothersgwikieditor ( talk) 03:00, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
More to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 06:03, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Other comments:
More to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 08:58, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
More comments to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 12:19, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
More to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 01:48, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
More to come.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 03:13, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
More to come. -- ZKang123 ( talk) 07:51, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
I see plenty of source formatting issues. Version reviewed.
This is all I can go through, but help check the other half of the references.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 13:27, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
As much as I wish to help this article attain GA status, halfway through reviewing, I regret to say I find this article still contains various ungrammatical and unecyclopedic prose and source formatting issues. The point of a GA review is not to hand-hold editors until their article is up to an acceptable standard, but instead point out small mistakes that help polish up the work; the number of issues listed in my above review was well above the minimum that other reviewers would use to quick-fail a nomination.
Personally, I find this article gives quite a lot more weight to his recent political life than his first premiership. This might be understandable given more accessible coverage, but some details could be better summarised.
I will like to present two options:
These are my general thoughts. The article could still see better polish, and having it copyedited thoroughly would benefit it a lot.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 00:25, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
From myself, nothing else.-- ZKang123 ( talk) 02:54, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
Oh Im unaware. I thought its the second reviewer who decides whether to pass. Alright, since everything else is good, I decided to pass.--
ZKang123 (
talk) 09:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
97198
talk 12:43, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
Improved to Good Article status by Arcahaeoindris ( talk). Self-nominated at 12:53, 1 November 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Mahathir Mohamad; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
---|
|
QPQ: Done. |
It seems odd to me that this section of the article is titled "Allegations of antisemitism," rather than something like "Antisemitic comments" or just "Antisemitism." Saying that Mahathir has only been "accused" of antisemitism, saying that he has "allegations" of antisemitism seems a bit too close to whitewashing the comments listed in this section. These well-documented and repeated comments all rely on blatantly antisemitic tropes and conspiracy theories, up to and including Holocaust denial. Mahathir has himself said he is proud to have been called an antisemite. I would understand using the word "allegations" in the section heading if it was just one event or if he only used mildly antisemitic tropes, but Mahathir's antisemitic comments have been frequent and extreme and have been made throughout his political career. Wouldn't it be reasonable for us to rename this section? WiJaMa ( talk) 03:55, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Add his doctor title in his infobox 2400:4050:8841:EE00:A44B:6EB4:B144:B679 ( talk) 03:17, 3 January 2024 (UTC)