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How is that a basis for claiming 95% of modern day Hungarians have no genetic relation to the original Hungarians 1000 years ago? 184.96.242.187 ( talk) 19:22, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Please add here for the sake of clarity what viewpoints are there and what viewpoints are missing. Regards, Octavian8 ( talk) 22:03, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Nothing? Octavian8 ( talk) 20:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Nothing? Octavian8 ( talk) 20:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Please describe here what would be a worldwide view of this topic. Regards, Octavian8 ( talk) 22:04, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
I don't think writing this article was of any use. Why are you going on about the so-called "magyarization". Obviously, in Hungary, people hardly can pronounce foreign place names, so in Hungary, you can't use foreign place names officially. But in private, everybody calls everything as they like, don't they?! So I think a name's origin is not a question, because nobody cares about that. I wouldn't want the French to call Paris Párizs officially because that's more convenient for me, would I? So in my opinion, do not care about "magyarized" or "non-magyarized" words, use any word you like! Vargamate ( talk) 15:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
This article is necessary .magyarisation happened and it`s well documented. even today in romania some hungarian parties are using the process of magyarisation on the romanian communities especially in parts of romania where hungarians are the majority denying people of other enticity their basic rights unless they accept to learn hungarian .another example is the so called "csangos" (religious catholic minority in eastern romania some of them speak hungarian and others are indoctrinated). —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
94.52.225.123 (
talk)
05:27, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
It is odd of speaking of "magyarisation" in Romania, and "Hungarians denying people of other ethnicity their basic rights". Such a statement ignores history, and in fact represent gross revisionism. Translyvania has always been populated by mostly Hungarians, especially before WWI. It has only become a part of Romania because of the Trianon Treaty. Much has been said about that treaty, it's worth doing some research on it instead of twisting the truth. What succeeded the annexation of Transylvania to Romania can best be labeled "romanisation" of Transylvanian cities and villages, many of which were outright bulldozed. Romanians were transplanted and moved into the region specifically to overwhelm the native Hungarian population. Sound familiar? Just for a second, consider what would happen if Alaska were all of a sudden ripped from the U.S. and annexed to Russia? Would one consider "americanisation" the inhabitants of Alaska attempting to continue speaking English and live like they had before? How would an American majority in Alaska even have the power to deny rights to anyone when they were under the authority of the Russian government? It simply doesn't make sense. "Magyarisation", as presented in this Wikipedia article, comes across as some strange, distorted smear campaign conducted against Hungarians for reasons that still elude me. And none of it is "well documented". Simply saying that it is doesn't make it so. On the contrary, there are more and more documents being uncovered that provide an insight into how and why the Trianon Treaty resulted in Central Europe being carved up the way it was, and what happened to the various regions inhabited by Hungarians that were annexed to various different countries as a result of the Treaty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.42.186.162 ( talk) 15:27, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Nowadays criticism of societies of the past is sometimes based on the novel and modern philosophy. This article, and another opinions and historical point of views related to ethnic policy often do this kind of mistake. It's a bad approach, because they doesn't examine the phenomenon it the proper historical context. According to the Enlightenment, people should have to be politically equal. But this ideology formed in France with nationalism, avoiding the problem of living ethnics close together. Only in Central-European region the reformers had to face this problem. The nowadays ethnic policy was unknown in that days, and the first trials were in Hungary in 1949/1868: giving the same political rights to the citizens. "all citizens of Hungary form, politically, one nation, the indivisible unitary Hungarian nation (nemzet), of which every citizen of the country, whatever his personal nationality (nemzetiség), is a member equal in rights." I think it was a forward-looking policy, in spite of the fact that the gowernment ignored the nationalist ambitions of the ethnics. We can't blame them for the elementary practice of law, alike we don't blame people in the middle-age not using trains for transportation. Lynxof ( talk) 23:00, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Taking Sándor Petőfi as an example of how Magyarization could turn an originally non-Hungarian person into a speaker of Hungarian national identity is totally fake: Hungarian replaced German (and previously Latin) as the official language of Hungary in 1844 - 21/20 years after the suspected "State-driven Magyarization" of the poet. Petőfi's choice was only a result of a mixed-language family where the son adopted the fathers language instead of the mother's (Slovakian). User:bmagyarkuti
How the hell would Petőfi have been forced to change his name to Hungarian?! If he were such a great Serb, he wouldn't have considered writing '12 pont' or 'Nemzeti dal', let alone dying for Hungary. Adam vg ( talk) 15:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
If Jewish people claim to be Hungarian, they should be counted as Hungarians. Squash Racket 18:24, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Weren't the adoption of other languages by the Jews a uniformal trend in Europe throughout the past centuries? I'm not expressing problems with this article (that is kind of eye-opening, since it expresses historical facts that are recognized by everyone, but Hungarians. we simply forgot these things), so I'm just curious, because I don't really know. I'm sure about the German trends, but not that of the French, Italians, etc. Hunmihaly 07:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
132.77.4.129 ( talk) 12:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)Speaking as a Israeli Jew of Non-Hungarian origin (Father's mother from Transcarpatia, evryone else from Galicia or U.S): One thing that always struck me about Jews who immigrated from Modern Transylvania (that is western Rumania) is that they ALWAYS identified them as Hungarian rather than Rumanian. Jews who Immigrated from Slovakia ALWAYS identified themselves as Czechs or Czechoslovaks rather than Slovaks or Hungarians. Likewise, Jews immigrating from Central Asia or the Caucaus always identified themselves as "Russian"- even if they were Bukharan (Jews who lived in Central Asia since 600 C.E rather than immigrants who came during Russian/Soviet period).
I think this has absolutely nothing to do with "National identification", Magyarization or Russification. Jews simply preferred to identify with the portion of the population which was more "advanced" and cultual- regardless of the political conditions at the time. Thus, Jews living in Transylvania continued to Identify themselves as "hungarians" during 70 years of Rumanian rule because Rumania and the Rumanian population were poorer and less educated than the Hungarians. Jews living in Slovakia/Czechoslovakia quickly switched to being Czechs because the Czechs were better educated and richer than either the Hungarians or the Slovaks. 132.77.4.129 ( talk) 12:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Claiming that Hungarian Jews cannot be Hungarians strikes me as antisemetic. Seamusalba ( talk) 09:11, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
After the Treaty of Trianon hundreds of Hungarian placenames were changed to Slovakian, Romanian etc. You're talking about 'Magyarization'? Maybe a bit misleading?
You forgot to mention that that is obviously not true, a lot of new names were invented in that period. Squash Racket ( talk) 11:30, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
"Examples of places where original non-Hungarian names were replaced with newly invented Hungarian names: Szvidnik - Felsővízköz (in Slovak Svidník, now Slovakia), Najdás - Néranádas (in Romanian Naidǎş, now Romania), Sztarcsova - Tárcsó (in Serbian Starčevo, now Serbia), Lyutta - Havasköz (in Ruthenian Lyuta, now Ukraine), Bruck - Királyhida (now Bruck an der Leitha, Austria)[citation needed]."
I think this is completely misleading and should be removed as most settlements in the course of history had/obtained Hungarian names in the historical Hungary. Most of the magyarization examples are translations. I would consider Magyarization if a town would gain a new official name, name of a Hungarian national hero(one that was even hostile with the people living there). There are good examples of national"izations" in settlement names: The village with the name "Zoltán" (a first name), or "Szentmihály" (Saint Michael) was translated as Mihai Viteazu (Mihai the heroic), or the town "Párkány"(the name has turkish origin, 68.7% of the inhabitants being ethnic Hungarian) is named after the 19th century Slovak national leader, Ľudovít Štúr.. I believe the Serb, Slovac and Romanian nationalist interest would regret to dispute the origin of settlement names and fooling around with who was where first.
I just looked up a single village "Tárcsó" and found a site telling that:
"Az 1717. évi összeírás szerint 50 házból állt. 1764-ben határőrvidéki szerbeket és németeket telepítettek. A horvátok telepítése 1773-1774-ben kezdődhetett. A II. világháború után a németek helyére 160 szerb családot telepítettek, de azok több mint harmada visszatért szülőhelyére. A betelepülés a következő években is folytatódott, mára szinte csak szerbek lakják." http://vajdasag.netoktato.hu/T%C3%A1rcs%C3%B3 (site about the settelments of Vojvodina in hungarian language)
Which means that: In the census of 1717 the village had 50 houses. Beginning with 1764 Serb and German military frontiers were established. After WII in the place of Germans 160 Serb family was settled, though most of these families returned to their native place the settlement of Serbs continued and today is a village with an almost completely Serb population."
For those with too strong national feelings: make justice and judge first your own nation, and when you say everything is fine there then you are probably not telling the truth. 81.181.70.7 ( talk) 10:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)surfer
Oh I see that you actually like this kind of discussion. What you want to hear is this: you can make changes to articles as long as they are referenced. If there are conflicting references to academic sources you should deal until concensus is reached, OK? That is the bottomline, right?
Squash Racket
19:28, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Please forgive me that I don't wanna end up like that
USER, OK?
Squash Racket
19:35, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
First of all, I've never heard of the term 'Magyarization' before, but I am aware that the Austro-Hungarian empire did have a lot of influence over many countries in terms of culture, particularly the Slavs of the Balkans. Second, there is an image located here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Redmap.jpg . The description under the image on the article page says that Croats aren't included. I would like to correct this, as the name being used by the Magyars to describe the Croatians is "Horvats". Horvat is the most common Surname in Croatia and the name Croats use to identify themselves is Hrvat or Hrvati. A translation of the word can be provided at this location: http://translate.google.com/#hu%7Cen%7Chorvat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.13.128.102 ( talk) 08:02, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
Could someone upload and add the Austro-Hungarian banknote from this link? [1] I am not registered and am not going to register just because of this... There is a multi-lingual banknote image in this article, so there also should be a bi-lingual banknote. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.175.98.213 ( talk) 12:26, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
The phrase "On the other hand, this kind of approach to minority languages and culture was fully in line with the trends of the time. From the onset of Enlightenment Era, the same or even more severe forced assimilation techniques were used with success by significant Western European countries, such as Spain[5], France[6] or Britain[7]." is a funny attempt of some editors to find mitigating circumstances for Magyarization.
I understand that you try to seek excuses, but there is no need for this. There is already a template called "Cultural assimilation" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cultural_assimilation on the bottom of the page, so drop it.
Besides, that phrase is an insolent manipulation of sources. There is no comparative analysis, there is not specified anywhere that assimilation was less severe than in Spain, France or Britain.
Don't just bring some sources hoping that we don't read them. Source 5 was about Fascist Spain and source 7 was about Amerindians (check the map, Britain is in Europe) ArpyArpy ( talk) 07:49, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Dear Iaaasi (alias ArpyArpy), it is not about finding mitigating circumstances for Magyarization, which was a shame by the way, but about putting the phenomena in a context. Unfortunately, enforced cultural assimilation was a common practice in that time (it still is in some countries), and providing a sentence about other examples does not exempt those Hungarian governments which were involved. On the other hand, why should we hide such an information? I agree that we should not overemphasize it, but mentioning this just makes the reader more informed about the issue. It does not count whether currently this or that article mentions such analogs, they are not etalons, why should we blindly follow them? Regarding the British Empire: just because it did something in its colonies, it was still the British Empire that committed such things (and it was not only in their colonies). The forced assimilation of Basques during the dictatorship of Franco is a classical example, that's why I have chosen that, but there are other Spanish examples, as well. Having the template of Cultural assimilation is not the same as having a sentence about analogue policies of other countries. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 10:25, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
The article did not mention that minority rights and laws were existed only in Austria and Hungary in pre-WW1 Europe! The first minority rights were invented firstly in Hungary in Europe in July 1849! But these were overturned after the Russian and Austrian armies crushed the Hungarian Revolution. When Hungary made a compromise with the dynasty in 1867 one of the first acts of the restored Parliament was to pass a Law on Nationalities (Act Number XLIV of 1868).
The situation of minorities in Hungary were much more better than in contemporary Western Europe. Other highly multinational countries were: France Russia and UK.
See the multi-national UK:
The situation of Scottish Irish Welsh people in "Britain" during the English hegemony is well known. They utmost forgot their original language, only english language cultural educational institutions existed. The only language was English in judiciary procedures and in offices and public administrations. It was not a real "United" Kingdom, it was rather a greater England.
See the multiethnic France:
In 1870, France was a similar-degree multi-ethnic state as Hungary, only 50% of the population of France spoke the French language as mothertongue. (many minority languages were closer to spanish or Italian language than French) French governments banned minority language schools , minority language newspapers minority theaters. They banned the usage of minority languages in offices , public adimistration, and judiciary procedures. The ratio of french mothertongue increased from 50% to 91% during the 1870-1910 period!!!
What about Russia?
Russian Empire was a similar multiethnic state as Hungary, without the existence of minority rights. The forced russification is also well known. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.6.147.1 ( talk) 08:38, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
Please accept real history and the historic facts ! It was official document !!! -- BogatRadvan ( talk) 14:13, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
-das Volksschulgesetz (Ga. 18/1879)verlangte den forcierten Unterricht der magyarischen Sprache -das Mitttelschulgesetz (Ga. 30/1883)... also the Apponyi law (Ga. 27/1907)... show the real state program for magyarisation = creation new magyar nation. Good is also work of the Gusztáv Beksics on 50th jubilee of magyarisation "Magyarosodás és Magyarositás" year 1883 , where is write word by word ,number by number about regions and towns "which can take from slovaks". Ofc I "only for you" here write the Hungarian sources, because I know that many magyars dont accept other sources even from slovak Universty studium texts :-) My friend , you must believe that under weight this proofs nobody can doubt or delete the history. I wish you nice day :-) -- BogatRadvan ( talk) 12:57, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
It can be a forced process or a voluntary process 82.79.215.221 ( talk) 10:01, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
The term Magyarization describes a process by which non-Hungarian nationals came to adopt the Hungarian culture and language, voluntarily or forcibly, regardless of era. The source clearly states that according to a theory the Szekelys are Magyarized Avars/Bulgars (it is proposed a Magyarization of Avars/Bulgars) 79.117.177.166 ( talk) 23:21, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
This is Edit war: the Seklers was not Turkic people, originally also Magyar/Hungarian ethnic group. This theory is old and outdated. Doncsecz talk 09:48, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
Current version is OK. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 12:38, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
http://books.google.ro/books?id=ytc-muwFT_IC&pg=PA193&dq=catholic+clergy+pressed+magyarization&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=zUG9Uvh4y4aFB6fygeAK&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=catholic%20clergy%20pressed%20magyarization&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.117.169.114 ( talk) 09:02, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
The last paragraph of the introduction needs rewriting. The rights offered were stingier than ...; pretty obscure if you ask me. Why not use "less" instead of "stingier". Also "chicaneries" is not really suitable for an introduction. Maybe "tricks", which has a somewhat similar meaning and is more likely to be understood. Nigej ( talk) 08:17, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
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There is an extra paranthesis that has to be removed:
(The Romanian Kingdom gained its independence from the Ottoman Empire only two years before, in 1878) (
79.117.188.107 ( talk) 15:38, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
There are numerous references in this section to ethnic identity statistics from the 1910 census, however the Summary section states "the 1910 census (and the earlier censuses) did not register ethnicity, but mother tongue (and religion) instead".
Were there separate, uncited census taken in some referenced locations (Transylvania, Budapest, etc.). The inference is that there were regional changes in ethnic composition, which seems at odds with the prior paragraphs which essentially characterise Magyarization as the adoption of the Hungarian language.
Under a strong administrative push to adopt Hungarian language, would the census data not indicate this was having effect, rather than that the ethnic balance was changing?
Chipinoz 17:29, 28 January 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chipinoz ( talk • contribs)
I doubt that Nádas / Néranádas has anything to do with Magyarization. The name "Nadasd" was first recorded in 1378, in 1688 it was recorded as "Nadas", only the prefix "Néra" came in 1913. [3]. Thus, even if the word had non-Hungarian origin, its connection to Magyarization, which happened in the 19th-20th centuries, is quite doubtful. Hence, it should be removed. If someone wants to keep it, he/she should provide explicit quotes from academic works, as I doubt that György Lelkes claims that it was a newly invented "Magyarized" placename. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 16:04, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
See Lelkes (1992 version) p. 290., where the name form of Najdás is mentioned, however it does not mention that the name "Néranádas" is a result of a Magyarization process, so the debated sentence is definitely WP:OR (in addition the settlement formerly was also mentioned as "Nádas" in the 14th century). -- Norden1990 ( talk) 16:37, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
How is that a basis for claiming 95% of modern day Hungarians have no genetic relation to the original Hungarians 1000 years ago? 184.96.242.187 ( talk) 19:22, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Please add here for the sake of clarity what viewpoints are there and what viewpoints are missing. Regards, Octavian8 ( talk) 22:03, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Nothing? Octavian8 ( talk) 20:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Nothing? Octavian8 ( talk) 20:01, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Please describe here what would be a worldwide view of this topic. Regards, Octavian8 ( talk) 22:04, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
I don't think writing this article was of any use. Why are you going on about the so-called "magyarization". Obviously, in Hungary, people hardly can pronounce foreign place names, so in Hungary, you can't use foreign place names officially. But in private, everybody calls everything as they like, don't they?! So I think a name's origin is not a question, because nobody cares about that. I wouldn't want the French to call Paris Párizs officially because that's more convenient for me, would I? So in my opinion, do not care about "magyarized" or "non-magyarized" words, use any word you like! Vargamate ( talk) 15:20, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
This article is necessary .magyarisation happened and it`s well documented. even today in romania some hungarian parties are using the process of magyarisation on the romanian communities especially in parts of romania where hungarians are the majority denying people of other enticity their basic rights unless they accept to learn hungarian .another example is the so called "csangos" (religious catholic minority in eastern romania some of them speak hungarian and others are indoctrinated). —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
94.52.225.123 (
talk)
05:27, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
It is odd of speaking of "magyarisation" in Romania, and "Hungarians denying people of other ethnicity their basic rights". Such a statement ignores history, and in fact represent gross revisionism. Translyvania has always been populated by mostly Hungarians, especially before WWI. It has only become a part of Romania because of the Trianon Treaty. Much has been said about that treaty, it's worth doing some research on it instead of twisting the truth. What succeeded the annexation of Transylvania to Romania can best be labeled "romanisation" of Transylvanian cities and villages, many of which were outright bulldozed. Romanians were transplanted and moved into the region specifically to overwhelm the native Hungarian population. Sound familiar? Just for a second, consider what would happen if Alaska were all of a sudden ripped from the U.S. and annexed to Russia? Would one consider "americanisation" the inhabitants of Alaska attempting to continue speaking English and live like they had before? How would an American majority in Alaska even have the power to deny rights to anyone when they were under the authority of the Russian government? It simply doesn't make sense. "Magyarisation", as presented in this Wikipedia article, comes across as some strange, distorted smear campaign conducted against Hungarians for reasons that still elude me. And none of it is "well documented". Simply saying that it is doesn't make it so. On the contrary, there are more and more documents being uncovered that provide an insight into how and why the Trianon Treaty resulted in Central Europe being carved up the way it was, and what happened to the various regions inhabited by Hungarians that were annexed to various different countries as a result of the Treaty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.42.186.162 ( talk) 15:27, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
Nowadays criticism of societies of the past is sometimes based on the novel and modern philosophy. This article, and another opinions and historical point of views related to ethnic policy often do this kind of mistake. It's a bad approach, because they doesn't examine the phenomenon it the proper historical context. According to the Enlightenment, people should have to be politically equal. But this ideology formed in France with nationalism, avoiding the problem of living ethnics close together. Only in Central-European region the reformers had to face this problem. The nowadays ethnic policy was unknown in that days, and the first trials were in Hungary in 1949/1868: giving the same political rights to the citizens. "all citizens of Hungary form, politically, one nation, the indivisible unitary Hungarian nation (nemzet), of which every citizen of the country, whatever his personal nationality (nemzetiség), is a member equal in rights." I think it was a forward-looking policy, in spite of the fact that the gowernment ignored the nationalist ambitions of the ethnics. We can't blame them for the elementary practice of law, alike we don't blame people in the middle-age not using trains for transportation. Lynxof ( talk) 23:00, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Taking Sándor Petőfi as an example of how Magyarization could turn an originally non-Hungarian person into a speaker of Hungarian national identity is totally fake: Hungarian replaced German (and previously Latin) as the official language of Hungary in 1844 - 21/20 years after the suspected "State-driven Magyarization" of the poet. Petőfi's choice was only a result of a mixed-language family where the son adopted the fathers language instead of the mother's (Slovakian). User:bmagyarkuti
How the hell would Petőfi have been forced to change his name to Hungarian?! If he were such a great Serb, he wouldn't have considered writing '12 pont' or 'Nemzeti dal', let alone dying for Hungary. Adam vg ( talk) 15:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
If Jewish people claim to be Hungarian, they should be counted as Hungarians. Squash Racket 18:24, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
Weren't the adoption of other languages by the Jews a uniformal trend in Europe throughout the past centuries? I'm not expressing problems with this article (that is kind of eye-opening, since it expresses historical facts that are recognized by everyone, but Hungarians. we simply forgot these things), so I'm just curious, because I don't really know. I'm sure about the German trends, but not that of the French, Italians, etc. Hunmihaly 07:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
132.77.4.129 ( talk) 12:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)Speaking as a Israeli Jew of Non-Hungarian origin (Father's mother from Transcarpatia, evryone else from Galicia or U.S): One thing that always struck me about Jews who immigrated from Modern Transylvania (that is western Rumania) is that they ALWAYS identified them as Hungarian rather than Rumanian. Jews who Immigrated from Slovakia ALWAYS identified themselves as Czechs or Czechoslovaks rather than Slovaks or Hungarians. Likewise, Jews immigrating from Central Asia or the Caucaus always identified themselves as "Russian"- even if they were Bukharan (Jews who lived in Central Asia since 600 C.E rather than immigrants who came during Russian/Soviet period).
I think this has absolutely nothing to do with "National identification", Magyarization or Russification. Jews simply preferred to identify with the portion of the population which was more "advanced" and cultual- regardless of the political conditions at the time. Thus, Jews living in Transylvania continued to Identify themselves as "hungarians" during 70 years of Rumanian rule because Rumania and the Rumanian population were poorer and less educated than the Hungarians. Jews living in Slovakia/Czechoslovakia quickly switched to being Czechs because the Czechs were better educated and richer than either the Hungarians or the Slovaks. 132.77.4.129 ( talk) 12:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Claiming that Hungarian Jews cannot be Hungarians strikes me as antisemetic. Seamusalba ( talk) 09:11, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
After the Treaty of Trianon hundreds of Hungarian placenames were changed to Slovakian, Romanian etc. You're talking about 'Magyarization'? Maybe a bit misleading?
You forgot to mention that that is obviously not true, a lot of new names were invented in that period. Squash Racket ( talk) 11:30, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
"Examples of places where original non-Hungarian names were replaced with newly invented Hungarian names: Szvidnik - Felsővízköz (in Slovak Svidník, now Slovakia), Najdás - Néranádas (in Romanian Naidǎş, now Romania), Sztarcsova - Tárcsó (in Serbian Starčevo, now Serbia), Lyutta - Havasköz (in Ruthenian Lyuta, now Ukraine), Bruck - Királyhida (now Bruck an der Leitha, Austria)[citation needed]."
I think this is completely misleading and should be removed as most settlements in the course of history had/obtained Hungarian names in the historical Hungary. Most of the magyarization examples are translations. I would consider Magyarization if a town would gain a new official name, name of a Hungarian national hero(one that was even hostile with the people living there). There are good examples of national"izations" in settlement names: The village with the name "Zoltán" (a first name), or "Szentmihály" (Saint Michael) was translated as Mihai Viteazu (Mihai the heroic), or the town "Párkány"(the name has turkish origin, 68.7% of the inhabitants being ethnic Hungarian) is named after the 19th century Slovak national leader, Ľudovít Štúr.. I believe the Serb, Slovac and Romanian nationalist interest would regret to dispute the origin of settlement names and fooling around with who was where first.
I just looked up a single village "Tárcsó" and found a site telling that:
"Az 1717. évi összeírás szerint 50 házból állt. 1764-ben határőrvidéki szerbeket és németeket telepítettek. A horvátok telepítése 1773-1774-ben kezdődhetett. A II. világháború után a németek helyére 160 szerb családot telepítettek, de azok több mint harmada visszatért szülőhelyére. A betelepülés a következő években is folytatódott, mára szinte csak szerbek lakják." http://vajdasag.netoktato.hu/T%C3%A1rcs%C3%B3 (site about the settelments of Vojvodina in hungarian language)
Which means that: In the census of 1717 the village had 50 houses. Beginning with 1764 Serb and German military frontiers were established. After WII in the place of Germans 160 Serb family was settled, though most of these families returned to their native place the settlement of Serbs continued and today is a village with an almost completely Serb population."
For those with too strong national feelings: make justice and judge first your own nation, and when you say everything is fine there then you are probably not telling the truth. 81.181.70.7 ( talk) 10:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)surfer
Oh I see that you actually like this kind of discussion. What you want to hear is this: you can make changes to articles as long as they are referenced. If there are conflicting references to academic sources you should deal until concensus is reached, OK? That is the bottomline, right?
Squash Racket
19:28, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Please forgive me that I don't wanna end up like that
USER, OK?
Squash Racket
19:35, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
First of all, I've never heard of the term 'Magyarization' before, but I am aware that the Austro-Hungarian empire did have a lot of influence over many countries in terms of culture, particularly the Slavs of the Balkans. Second, there is an image located here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Redmap.jpg . The description under the image on the article page says that Croats aren't included. I would like to correct this, as the name being used by the Magyars to describe the Croatians is "Horvats". Horvat is the most common Surname in Croatia and the name Croats use to identify themselves is Hrvat or Hrvati. A translation of the word can be provided at this location: http://translate.google.com/#hu%7Cen%7Chorvat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.13.128.102 ( talk) 08:02, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
Could someone upload and add the Austro-Hungarian banknote from this link? [1] I am not registered and am not going to register just because of this... There is a multi-lingual banknote image in this article, so there also should be a bi-lingual banknote. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.175.98.213 ( talk) 12:26, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
The phrase "On the other hand, this kind of approach to minority languages and culture was fully in line with the trends of the time. From the onset of Enlightenment Era, the same or even more severe forced assimilation techniques were used with success by significant Western European countries, such as Spain[5], France[6] or Britain[7]." is a funny attempt of some editors to find mitigating circumstances for Magyarization.
I understand that you try to seek excuses, but there is no need for this. There is already a template called "Cultural assimilation" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cultural_assimilation on the bottom of the page, so drop it.
Besides, that phrase is an insolent manipulation of sources. There is no comparative analysis, there is not specified anywhere that assimilation was less severe than in Spain, France or Britain.
Don't just bring some sources hoping that we don't read them. Source 5 was about Fascist Spain and source 7 was about Amerindians (check the map, Britain is in Europe) ArpyArpy ( talk) 07:49, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Dear Iaaasi (alias ArpyArpy), it is not about finding mitigating circumstances for Magyarization, which was a shame by the way, but about putting the phenomena in a context. Unfortunately, enforced cultural assimilation was a common practice in that time (it still is in some countries), and providing a sentence about other examples does not exempt those Hungarian governments which were involved. On the other hand, why should we hide such an information? I agree that we should not overemphasize it, but mentioning this just makes the reader more informed about the issue. It does not count whether currently this or that article mentions such analogs, they are not etalons, why should we blindly follow them? Regarding the British Empire: just because it did something in its colonies, it was still the British Empire that committed such things (and it was not only in their colonies). The forced assimilation of Basques during the dictatorship of Franco is a classical example, that's why I have chosen that, but there are other Spanish examples, as well. Having the template of Cultural assimilation is not the same as having a sentence about analogue policies of other countries. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 10:25, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
The article did not mention that minority rights and laws were existed only in Austria and Hungary in pre-WW1 Europe! The first minority rights were invented firstly in Hungary in Europe in July 1849! But these were overturned after the Russian and Austrian armies crushed the Hungarian Revolution. When Hungary made a compromise with the dynasty in 1867 one of the first acts of the restored Parliament was to pass a Law on Nationalities (Act Number XLIV of 1868).
The situation of minorities in Hungary were much more better than in contemporary Western Europe. Other highly multinational countries were: France Russia and UK.
See the multi-national UK:
The situation of Scottish Irish Welsh people in "Britain" during the English hegemony is well known. They utmost forgot their original language, only english language cultural educational institutions existed. The only language was English in judiciary procedures and in offices and public administrations. It was not a real "United" Kingdom, it was rather a greater England.
See the multiethnic France:
In 1870, France was a similar-degree multi-ethnic state as Hungary, only 50% of the population of France spoke the French language as mothertongue. (many minority languages were closer to spanish or Italian language than French) French governments banned minority language schools , minority language newspapers minority theaters. They banned the usage of minority languages in offices , public adimistration, and judiciary procedures. The ratio of french mothertongue increased from 50% to 91% during the 1870-1910 period!!!
What about Russia?
Russian Empire was a similar multiethnic state as Hungary, without the existence of minority rights. The forced russification is also well known. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.6.147.1 ( talk) 08:38, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
Please accept real history and the historic facts ! It was official document !!! -- BogatRadvan ( talk) 14:13, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
-das Volksschulgesetz (Ga. 18/1879)verlangte den forcierten Unterricht der magyarischen Sprache -das Mitttelschulgesetz (Ga. 30/1883)... also the Apponyi law (Ga. 27/1907)... show the real state program for magyarisation = creation new magyar nation. Good is also work of the Gusztáv Beksics on 50th jubilee of magyarisation "Magyarosodás és Magyarositás" year 1883 , where is write word by word ,number by number about regions and towns "which can take from slovaks". Ofc I "only for you" here write the Hungarian sources, because I know that many magyars dont accept other sources even from slovak Universty studium texts :-) My friend , you must believe that under weight this proofs nobody can doubt or delete the history. I wish you nice day :-) -- BogatRadvan ( talk) 12:57, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
It can be a forced process or a voluntary process 82.79.215.221 ( talk) 10:01, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
The term Magyarization describes a process by which non-Hungarian nationals came to adopt the Hungarian culture and language, voluntarily or forcibly, regardless of era. The source clearly states that according to a theory the Szekelys are Magyarized Avars/Bulgars (it is proposed a Magyarization of Avars/Bulgars) 79.117.177.166 ( talk) 23:21, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
This is Edit war: the Seklers was not Turkic people, originally also Magyar/Hungarian ethnic group. This theory is old and outdated. Doncsecz talk 09:48, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
Current version is OK. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 12:38, 23 December 2013 (UTC)
http://books.google.ro/books?id=ytc-muwFT_IC&pg=PA193&dq=catholic+clergy+pressed+magyarization&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=zUG9Uvh4y4aFB6fygeAK&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=catholic%20clergy%20pressed%20magyarization&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.117.169.114 ( talk) 09:02, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
The last paragraph of the introduction needs rewriting. The rights offered were stingier than ...; pretty obscure if you ask me. Why not use "less" instead of "stingier". Also "chicaneries" is not really suitable for an introduction. Maybe "tricks", which has a somewhat similar meaning and is more likely to be understood. Nigej ( talk) 08:17, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
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There is an extra paranthesis that has to be removed:
(The Romanian Kingdom gained its independence from the Ottoman Empire only two years before, in 1878) (
79.117.188.107 ( talk) 15:38, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
There are numerous references in this section to ethnic identity statistics from the 1910 census, however the Summary section states "the 1910 census (and the earlier censuses) did not register ethnicity, but mother tongue (and religion) instead".
Were there separate, uncited census taken in some referenced locations (Transylvania, Budapest, etc.). The inference is that there were regional changes in ethnic composition, which seems at odds with the prior paragraphs which essentially characterise Magyarization as the adoption of the Hungarian language.
Under a strong administrative push to adopt Hungarian language, would the census data not indicate this was having effect, rather than that the ethnic balance was changing?
Chipinoz 17:29, 28 January 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chipinoz ( talk • contribs)
I doubt that Nádas / Néranádas has anything to do with Magyarization. The name "Nadasd" was first recorded in 1378, in 1688 it was recorded as "Nadas", only the prefix "Néra" came in 1913. [3]. Thus, even if the word had non-Hungarian origin, its connection to Magyarization, which happened in the 19th-20th centuries, is quite doubtful. Hence, it should be removed. If someone wants to keep it, he/she should provide explicit quotes from academic works, as I doubt that György Lelkes claims that it was a newly invented "Magyarized" placename. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 16:04, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
See Lelkes (1992 version) p. 290., where the name form of Najdás is mentioned, however it does not mention that the name "Néranádas" is a result of a Magyarization process, so the debated sentence is definitely WP:OR (in addition the settlement formerly was also mentioned as "Nádas" in the 14th century). -- Norden1990 ( talk) 16:37, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
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