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Archive 10 | ← | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | → | Archive 20 |
hey how about we use this one it's high quality and you can clearly see her eyes/face and it's more recent-- LuxiromChick ( talk) 18:06, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
This
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I'm requesting an update to Madonna's discography. There are no compilation albums or sound tracks of hers listed. I'd also like to see the album "I'm Breathless" included as a studio album (1990). It was a full studio album in which the songs were from and inspired by the film Dick Tracy. I think its a very important album to list as it scored her one of the most successful songs of her career with Vogue.
68.166.75.34 ( talk) 00:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
I am surprised that this article has no "Criticism/controversy" section. Googling "Madonna criticism", shows there are 8,400,000 results. "Madonna controversy" has 7,620,000 results. Is this article saying she is above being criticised? I'm sure if there were a "Criticism/controversy" section, it could also contain answers/defence from the lady herself. Balance is needed in all aspects of this article.-- andreasegde ( talk) 18:28, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
"Regulating every criticism ever thrown in her direction in one section isn't exactly encyclopedic". I agree, but "every criticism" is not what is being proposed here.-- andreasegde ( talk) 04:51, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Manxwoman, did you mean to revert to the version that you did? You wiped out my edits as well. Martin Hogbin ( talk) 17:31, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
I and others have made some changes to tone down the promotional gloss and there do no seem to have been too many complaints. So far I have only looked at a small part of the article. Is there a consensus to carry on this process? Martin Hogbin ( talk) 14:27, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Binksternet ( talk) 21:16, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
I have done a bit more, trying only to remove or tone down gratuitous promotional wording. Let me know if you think I am going too far. Martin Hogbin ( talk) 18:06, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
I have now been through most of the article removing promotional gloss and excessive quotations. What is the general feeling now? Martin Hogbin ( talk) 09:30, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
This
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Please change the main picture of Madonna (Madonna by David Shankbone.jpg) to a more recent picture (2012 at least) because the current image is from 2008 (the pisture is too old). Thanks.
Agus1991 ( talk) 02:50, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am very concerned at the lack of neutrality in the main article. It would appear that certain editors are making sure that only complimentary comments are included about the subject and are creating a "generally positive image" only (as stated below) and excising anything that does not fit the intended eulogistic tone of the article. Personal thoughts of the subject matter aside, this is unbecoming to a serious encyclopaedia such as Wikipedia and does not give a fair and balanced account of the subject. It may also be a potential breech of a fundamental and non-negotiable Wiki policy Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. May we have other unbiased editors comments on this please? Manxwoman ( talk) 20:46, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
I think we should make a consensus regarding which picture to use on the article's infobox, should we keep using the shankbone one, or the more recent MDNA one??? -- LuxiromChick ( talk) 05:37, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
I find it highly suspicious that these images have already appeared on other websites. It is not likely they have no copyrights attached - see http://blameitonmadonna.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/truth-or-dare-by-madonna-launch-at.html 21st CENTURY GREENSTUFF 20:15, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
I have a personal photo of Madonna that I took during the MDNA tour, as it is mine would putting it up here be a violation of any wiki terms? The "current" infobox photo of her is five years out of date (she doesn't even look like that anymore!) and considering the level of importance of this music article I think it reflects badly on wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.234.252.66 ( talk) 20:51, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Madonna (art)#Requested Move: → Madonna which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. -- Trystan ( talk) 15:20, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
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In the Madonna article it was stated that her half time show at the super bowl in 2012 was the highest watched ever with 114 million viewers-well, in 1993 Michael Jackson performed the super bowl half time show and he had 135 million viewers (according to WIKIPEDIA) so how can Madonna's half time show be the highest watched? Please research and make necessary corrections. Thank you. Mj4everliveson ( talk) 19:11, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
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Madonna has won 11 Grammies.
122.176.194.220 ( talk) 16:04, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Once again, we need to ask that the Wiki staff look beyond their personal dislike of Madonna and ad what is her official title in the music industry as stated by critics, fellow artists, and public polls. Just like Michael Jackson's page list him as King of Pop, this one needs to name Madonna as Queen of Pop. Please stop arguing the fans on this. Please! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.189.7.60 ( talk) 02:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Queen of Pop is used so lightly for some reason, and I have no idea what it is. Madonna was the first to be cited as the Queen of Pop (to my knowledge) and she has been reported as so for many years, so I don't see a problem with including it. I'm just noting that the media seems to call anybody the Queen of Pop now-a-days. Nobody calls anybody the King of Pop unless they mean Micheal. It's weird. Probably a gender thing. But yes, Madonna is well-known as the Queen of Pop for decades. St at us 03:26, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
In response to the list of arguments opposing it. Those are incredibly weak. While it's true anyone can write anything, none of those artist have accomplished what she has, and most of them I've never heard of. Diana Ross doesn't even do pop music, she does R & B, and that article said "Queen of Pop Culture" which is different than Pop music. Also, the title is not as thrown around as you say. Madonna is in the clear world wide majority when it comes to holding this title. Also, there are people who have named others as the King. Some people have said Usher, Kanye West and even Justin Beiber are the King now. Obviously, that's ridiculous. So is anyone but Madonna being given this title. It's time for Wikipedia to finally recognize this. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Djackson84 (
talk •
contribs)
23:23, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Once again, Wiki's personal feelings against her come into play. That's what breaking the neutrality of your page. Whitney and Mariah's latest work wasn't even pop, it was R&B, and Celine's career is no one near Madonna's. None of them have reached the level she is on. That's not opinion or point of view. And to say the title hasn't stuck with her, is simply incorrect as none of them have been referred to as this by even a quarter of the times Madonna has. It's unimaginable that Wikipedia still works this way. Shameful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djackson84 ( talk • contribs) 02:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Croatian writer Giancarlo Kravar: American pop star Madonna is the highest earning in the music industry last year, and it helped her highest world tour MDNA, Billboard magazine has published on its website. Madonna (54) was at the top of Billboard's charts for annual earnings for the second time in five years. The list is compiled by earnings from the tour, album and other projects of the artist. Billboard states that only Madonna on tour earned around $ 32 million, which makes up more than 90 percent of its total revenue last year of $ 34.6 million. 93.137.34.254 ( talk) 18:02, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
I've noticed that several of the headings in the life and career section are quite lengthy. Might it make sense to eliminate the album's tours in the headings? At most, they only have a couple sentences in each section, and appear to be less notable than the album itself. Since this is a good article, I figured it would be best to propose it before taking on something potentially controversial myself. WikiRedactor ( talk) 17:05, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved: there is insufficient support for the move and reasoned opposition against it. DrKiernan ( talk) 08:25, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
– I understand that this issue has been discussed multiple times in the past, but I still feel that this is a case of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The only article on the disambiguation that could compete with Madonna the singer for primary topic would be Mary, and even so the term "Madonna" is only used thirteen times in the article, not one of which is a notable term presented in the introduction. Of thw two, the singer is much more notable in this naming, and deserves the primary naming. This would require moving the disambiguation to Madonna (disambiguation) but I couldn't get the multimove template working. WikiRedactor ( talk) 04:19, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
It's simply not possible to follow this "policy". It's like changing the law to say green means go and red means stop but only when you're hungry; green means stop and red means go when you're not hungry. Now, everybody, follow that rule! It's utter foolishness to even try to follow a rule like this. -- B2 C 23:53, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
The article implies that she legally shortened her name to just Madonna. However, I couldn't find a statement and source in the article that addresses that matter. The last discussion I read about this matter (before posting this) took place in 2011, and didn't provide any sources that confirmed a name change. The only (somewhat) reliable source I found regarding this was one of Madonna's interviews back in 1985, where she states her full name is Madonna Louisa Veronica Ciccone Penn. ( http://mgross.com/writing/books/the-more-things-change/bonus-chapters/madonna-catholic-girl-material-girl-post-liberation-woman/) Granted it's outdated since she's been divorced for a while, but it's something to start with. Whether or not it is determined that her legal name is her birth name or simply Madonna, we need to add a reliable source for either one; I'm surprised we don't already have one. WikiRedactor ( talk) 20:47, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
A debate was started on February 13th, to discuss the use of the alias Queen of Pop in the artlicles introductions. Next day, I said that I was going to participate when I had time and if it was necessary that I will start a new debate. However, I never had the time to get involve and the discussion was solved the same day with all votes against the change. It is not the first time that this topic is discussed; however I believe that the arguments presented were inaccurate. Therefore, I will like to present new arguments.
Madonna is not the only artist that has been regarded as the Queen of Pop; several new and old artists have received the same title, but the references to support the use of those aliases in singers like Diana Ross are unfounded and inconsequential. In this specific example, the article states the Ross is the reigning queen of pop culture, which is like stating that Andy Warhol is the King of Pop (pop, translates to Pop art and Pop culture, not necessarily pop music) or Marisol Escobar. As well, in the Article Honorific nicknames in popular music, there is a reference that is used on three different artists which states that during the 1990s Mariah Carey, Celine Dion and Whitney Houston were regarded as the Queen of Pop, and the problem with this is that is stated as a question and not as a fact, also that we are no longer in that decade and the three are named as queens at the same time. Focusing on Celine Dion, there is a reference from a Canadian source stating Our Queen of Pop, which means that she is referred with that title in Canada and not necessarily around the world. These reference and information irregularities are evident on several other artists.
Since 1980 until now Madonna has been regarded as the Queen of Pop by several sources throughout the world, and this fact only applies to Madonna’s particular case which can be easily demonstrated with several sources. Some references (four decades: 80's, 90's, 00's, 10's)
All litter examples. This means that she has been named the Queen of Pop more than any other artist, even more than Houston with all the obituaries. Several music critics and journalists continue to regard Madonna as the “eternal” and “indisputable” Queen of Pop, and not only in English sources but in other languages as well like French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Catalan, etc. Are there references from different years and languages that support the alias of Queen of Pop in other artists? I don’t think so. Madonna is clearly regarded as the Queen of Pop worldwide, not only by the press but by sociologists, critics and other intellectuals, and especially by the IFPI and the Guinness World Records book.
In order to maintain neutrality (we introduce information with all its sides and shades and we don’t have to act as judges of the information) and to present trustworthy information I suggest:
Best regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 01:18, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
The only actual mention of her being the Queen of Pop in the article is "In 2011, Rolling Stone declared her as the all-time Queen of Pop and stated that'"Madonna is a musical icon without peer.'" I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of women have been cited as being the Queen of Pop, however, as Rolling Stone states, she is the "all-time", so yes, it should be included more in the article. To what extent, I don't know. I think it would be a good amount doing it as much as it is for Michael Jackson. — Statυs ( talk, contribs) 21:44, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I can continue to appoint more ... Until this It is exactly the opposite with other artists. Best regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 22:45, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Sorry Jennie--x I disagree with your point. What is MJ's deal here?. I mean, We must analyze each case, in this context (Queen of Pop) You can clearly see that Madonna has been aknowldegded as queen of pop globally in the opposite with other artists. There are also artists like Shakira, Thalía, Gloria Estefan who have been called "Queen of Latin Pop" but also "The Latin Madonna". Gloria Trevi or Yuri: "The Mexican Madonna". Rihanna or Beyoncé "The Black Madonna". Lady Gaga or Britney Spears: "The New Madonna" and more ("The Japanese Madonna", "Madonna of Asia"...). Sorry but no, your argument has no consistency. And yes, I agree with you about extending this on the Legacy section but It is our duty to appoint as such in the lead that Madonna is well recognized, because this is what an introduction is about, isn't it?. Chrishonduras ( talk) 18:52, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
What do others think?. Best regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 23:25, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
I approve of the title "Queen of Pop" to e included in the lead. Madonna's the very first singer to have received that title, was referred to that countless times and is the most successful female musician in history. Just like Michael Jackson, she was inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Israell ( talk) 01:37, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Been a long time. As I have shown previously with [some] several sources, and as we all know, Madonna is often referred as the Queen of Pop by the press [international]. In order to include this information in the introduction I suggest the inclusion of the following phrase in the first paragraph of the article: "She is often referred by the press as the Queen of Pop".... With that, I suggest as well the addition of a note like this one: "Several artists have [also] been called ocassionally by the press as the Queen of Pop such as the case of Janet Jackson and Whitney Houston. My proposal is simple [and is neutral] and does not have any value judgments or fallacies like Argumentum ad populum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrishonduras ( talk • contribs) 21:50, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
It is clear that all alias belongs to nobody, including "King of Pop"; but good I have no problem with that (When its this happens with artists such as Presley, Jackson, Cher or Spears; I can say -and demonstrate- that in the context of Madonna and "Queen of Pop", other artists who have been so called ocasionally with this nick, have also been called as "Madonna" (clearly, worldwide media); This is a context that does not happen with other artists, as Queen of Rock, Queen of Soul...). Anyway, thank you all for participating. Regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 23:01, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank You for your comment, BIO. Well, I have analyzed the situation and Jennie and her editing is well. Since in that section is about the relationship of the press and Madonna. Maybe we could specify more that Madonna has been treated as well since the 1980s, is a fact, with specific references ( [62] and/or [63]) or common sense (the references I have presented above; 1980s until present).
In any case, I think that this counterproposal will be the last (permanent, determinate...), because it is largely a fact that Madonna is referred as "Queen of Pop" to by the world press and critics or journalists of music (sources by variants, e.g Rolling Stone US, Rolling Stone Argentina, Rolling Stone Spain; Reuters Spain, Reuters France); year by year, e.g BBC News 2000, BBC News 2001, BBC News 2002, BBC News 2003, BBC News 2004, BBC News 2005....; the only one with these terms: "undisputed, eternal". As well to scientific journals, popular culture or of political (in short, any reference unlabeled), etc. In the end, all possibles contexts and this is exactly the opposite with other artists (including the "Madonnas" and all temporary pop queens -all variants-; Rihanna or Beyoncé = "Black Madonna", Gloria Trevi or Yuri = "Mexican Madonna", Shakira, Gloria Estefan or Thalía = "Latin Madonna"; Lady Gaga or Gwen Stefani = "The Next Madonna".... etc, etc). Best regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 01:33, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I thought about this when I added the note. If this happened (since it is likely that this discussion will crop up from time to time and there would be users who would remove it continuously) definitely will have to insert the note and emphasize this discussion. Right now, all for common sense :). Regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 05:49, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Well, the comparison to other artists no is necessary. The rest of the note? It may be relevant then add. Regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 14:38, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | → | Archive 20 |
hey how about we use this one it's high quality and you can clearly see her eyes/face and it's more recent-- LuxiromChick ( talk) 18:06, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I'm requesting an update to Madonna's discography. There are no compilation albums or sound tracks of hers listed. I'd also like to see the album "I'm Breathless" included as a studio album (1990). It was a full studio album in which the songs were from and inspired by the film Dick Tracy. I think its a very important album to list as it scored her one of the most successful songs of her career with Vogue.
68.166.75.34 ( talk) 00:23, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
I am surprised that this article has no "Criticism/controversy" section. Googling "Madonna criticism", shows there are 8,400,000 results. "Madonna controversy" has 7,620,000 results. Is this article saying she is above being criticised? I'm sure if there were a "Criticism/controversy" section, it could also contain answers/defence from the lady herself. Balance is needed in all aspects of this article.-- andreasegde ( talk) 18:28, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
"Regulating every criticism ever thrown in her direction in one section isn't exactly encyclopedic". I agree, but "every criticism" is not what is being proposed here.-- andreasegde ( talk) 04:51, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Manxwoman, did you mean to revert to the version that you did? You wiped out my edits as well. Martin Hogbin ( talk) 17:31, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
I and others have made some changes to tone down the promotional gloss and there do no seem to have been too many complaints. So far I have only looked at a small part of the article. Is there a consensus to carry on this process? Martin Hogbin ( talk) 14:27, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Binksternet ( talk) 21:16, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
I have done a bit more, trying only to remove or tone down gratuitous promotional wording. Let me know if you think I am going too far. Martin Hogbin ( talk) 18:06, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
I have now been through most of the article removing promotional gloss and excessive quotations. What is the general feeling now? Martin Hogbin ( talk) 09:30, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
This
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Please change the main picture of Madonna (Madonna by David Shankbone.jpg) to a more recent picture (2012 at least) because the current image is from 2008 (the pisture is too old). Thanks.
Agus1991 ( talk) 02:50, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am very concerned at the lack of neutrality in the main article. It would appear that certain editors are making sure that only complimentary comments are included about the subject and are creating a "generally positive image" only (as stated below) and excising anything that does not fit the intended eulogistic tone of the article. Personal thoughts of the subject matter aside, this is unbecoming to a serious encyclopaedia such as Wikipedia and does not give a fair and balanced account of the subject. It may also be a potential breech of a fundamental and non-negotiable Wiki policy Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. May we have other unbiased editors comments on this please? Manxwoman ( talk) 20:46, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
I think we should make a consensus regarding which picture to use on the article's infobox, should we keep using the shankbone one, or the more recent MDNA one??? -- LuxiromChick ( talk) 05:37, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
I find it highly suspicious that these images have already appeared on other websites. It is not likely they have no copyrights attached - see http://blameitonmadonna.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/truth-or-dare-by-madonna-launch-at.html 21st CENTURY GREENSTUFF 20:15, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
I have a personal photo of Madonna that I took during the MDNA tour, as it is mine would putting it up here be a violation of any wiki terms? The "current" infobox photo of her is five years out of date (she doesn't even look like that anymore!) and considering the level of importance of this music article I think it reflects badly on wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.234.252.66 ( talk) 20:51, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Madonna (art)#Requested Move: → Madonna which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. -- Trystan ( talk) 15:20, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
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In the Madonna article it was stated that her half time show at the super bowl in 2012 was the highest watched ever with 114 million viewers-well, in 1993 Michael Jackson performed the super bowl half time show and he had 135 million viewers (according to WIKIPEDIA) so how can Madonna's half time show be the highest watched? Please research and make necessary corrections. Thank you. Mj4everliveson ( talk) 19:11, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
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Madonna has won 11 Grammies.
122.176.194.220 ( talk) 16:04, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
Once again, we need to ask that the Wiki staff look beyond their personal dislike of Madonna and ad what is her official title in the music industry as stated by critics, fellow artists, and public polls. Just like Michael Jackson's page list him as King of Pop, this one needs to name Madonna as Queen of Pop. Please stop arguing the fans on this. Please! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.189.7.60 ( talk) 02:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Queen of Pop is used so lightly for some reason, and I have no idea what it is. Madonna was the first to be cited as the Queen of Pop (to my knowledge) and she has been reported as so for many years, so I don't see a problem with including it. I'm just noting that the media seems to call anybody the Queen of Pop now-a-days. Nobody calls anybody the King of Pop unless they mean Micheal. It's weird. Probably a gender thing. But yes, Madonna is well-known as the Queen of Pop for decades. St at us 03:26, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
In response to the list of arguments opposing it. Those are incredibly weak. While it's true anyone can write anything, none of those artist have accomplished what she has, and most of them I've never heard of. Diana Ross doesn't even do pop music, she does R & B, and that article said "Queen of Pop Culture" which is different than Pop music. Also, the title is not as thrown around as you say. Madonna is in the clear world wide majority when it comes to holding this title. Also, there are people who have named others as the King. Some people have said Usher, Kanye West and even Justin Beiber are the King now. Obviously, that's ridiculous. So is anyone but Madonna being given this title. It's time for Wikipedia to finally recognize this. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Djackson84 (
talk •
contribs)
23:23, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Once again, Wiki's personal feelings against her come into play. That's what breaking the neutrality of your page. Whitney and Mariah's latest work wasn't even pop, it was R&B, and Celine's career is no one near Madonna's. None of them have reached the level she is on. That's not opinion or point of view. And to say the title hasn't stuck with her, is simply incorrect as none of them have been referred to as this by even a quarter of the times Madonna has. It's unimaginable that Wikipedia still works this way. Shameful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djackson84 ( talk • contribs) 02:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
Croatian writer Giancarlo Kravar: American pop star Madonna is the highest earning in the music industry last year, and it helped her highest world tour MDNA, Billboard magazine has published on its website. Madonna (54) was at the top of Billboard's charts for annual earnings for the second time in five years. The list is compiled by earnings from the tour, album and other projects of the artist. Billboard states that only Madonna on tour earned around $ 32 million, which makes up more than 90 percent of its total revenue last year of $ 34.6 million. 93.137.34.254 ( talk) 18:02, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
I've noticed that several of the headings in the life and career section are quite lengthy. Might it make sense to eliminate the album's tours in the headings? At most, they only have a couple sentences in each section, and appear to be less notable than the album itself. Since this is a good article, I figured it would be best to propose it before taking on something potentially controversial myself. WikiRedactor ( talk) 17:05, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved: there is insufficient support for the move and reasoned opposition against it. DrKiernan ( talk) 08:25, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
– I understand that this issue has been discussed multiple times in the past, but I still feel that this is a case of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The only article on the disambiguation that could compete with Madonna the singer for primary topic would be Mary, and even so the term "Madonna" is only used thirteen times in the article, not one of which is a notable term presented in the introduction. Of thw two, the singer is much more notable in this naming, and deserves the primary naming. This would require moving the disambiguation to Madonna (disambiguation) but I couldn't get the multimove template working. WikiRedactor ( talk) 04:19, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
It's simply not possible to follow this "policy". It's like changing the law to say green means go and red means stop but only when you're hungry; green means stop and red means go when you're not hungry. Now, everybody, follow that rule! It's utter foolishness to even try to follow a rule like this. -- B2 C 23:53, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
The article implies that she legally shortened her name to just Madonna. However, I couldn't find a statement and source in the article that addresses that matter. The last discussion I read about this matter (before posting this) took place in 2011, and didn't provide any sources that confirmed a name change. The only (somewhat) reliable source I found regarding this was one of Madonna's interviews back in 1985, where she states her full name is Madonna Louisa Veronica Ciccone Penn. ( http://mgross.com/writing/books/the-more-things-change/bonus-chapters/madonna-catholic-girl-material-girl-post-liberation-woman/) Granted it's outdated since she's been divorced for a while, but it's something to start with. Whether or not it is determined that her legal name is her birth name or simply Madonna, we need to add a reliable source for either one; I'm surprised we don't already have one. WikiRedactor ( talk) 20:47, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
A debate was started on February 13th, to discuss the use of the alias Queen of Pop in the artlicles introductions. Next day, I said that I was going to participate when I had time and if it was necessary that I will start a new debate. However, I never had the time to get involve and the discussion was solved the same day with all votes against the change. It is not the first time that this topic is discussed; however I believe that the arguments presented were inaccurate. Therefore, I will like to present new arguments.
Madonna is not the only artist that has been regarded as the Queen of Pop; several new and old artists have received the same title, but the references to support the use of those aliases in singers like Diana Ross are unfounded and inconsequential. In this specific example, the article states the Ross is the reigning queen of pop culture, which is like stating that Andy Warhol is the King of Pop (pop, translates to Pop art and Pop culture, not necessarily pop music) or Marisol Escobar. As well, in the Article Honorific nicknames in popular music, there is a reference that is used on three different artists which states that during the 1990s Mariah Carey, Celine Dion and Whitney Houston were regarded as the Queen of Pop, and the problem with this is that is stated as a question and not as a fact, also that we are no longer in that decade and the three are named as queens at the same time. Focusing on Celine Dion, there is a reference from a Canadian source stating Our Queen of Pop, which means that she is referred with that title in Canada and not necessarily around the world. These reference and information irregularities are evident on several other artists.
Since 1980 until now Madonna has been regarded as the Queen of Pop by several sources throughout the world, and this fact only applies to Madonna’s particular case which can be easily demonstrated with several sources. Some references (four decades: 80's, 90's, 00's, 10's)
All litter examples. This means that she has been named the Queen of Pop more than any other artist, even more than Houston with all the obituaries. Several music critics and journalists continue to regard Madonna as the “eternal” and “indisputable” Queen of Pop, and not only in English sources but in other languages as well like French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Catalan, etc. Are there references from different years and languages that support the alias of Queen of Pop in other artists? I don’t think so. Madonna is clearly regarded as the Queen of Pop worldwide, not only by the press but by sociologists, critics and other intellectuals, and especially by the IFPI and the Guinness World Records book.
In order to maintain neutrality (we introduce information with all its sides and shades and we don’t have to act as judges of the information) and to present trustworthy information I suggest:
Best regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 01:18, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
The only actual mention of her being the Queen of Pop in the article is "In 2011, Rolling Stone declared her as the all-time Queen of Pop and stated that'"Madonna is a musical icon without peer.'" I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of women have been cited as being the Queen of Pop, however, as Rolling Stone states, she is the "all-time", so yes, it should be included more in the article. To what extent, I don't know. I think it would be a good amount doing it as much as it is for Michael Jackson. — Statυs ( talk, contribs) 21:44, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I can continue to appoint more ... Until this It is exactly the opposite with other artists. Best regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 22:45, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Sorry Jennie--x I disagree with your point. What is MJ's deal here?. I mean, We must analyze each case, in this context (Queen of Pop) You can clearly see that Madonna has been aknowldegded as queen of pop globally in the opposite with other artists. There are also artists like Shakira, Thalía, Gloria Estefan who have been called "Queen of Latin Pop" but also "The Latin Madonna". Gloria Trevi or Yuri: "The Mexican Madonna". Rihanna or Beyoncé "The Black Madonna". Lady Gaga or Britney Spears: "The New Madonna" and more ("The Japanese Madonna", "Madonna of Asia"...). Sorry but no, your argument has no consistency. And yes, I agree with you about extending this on the Legacy section but It is our duty to appoint as such in the lead that Madonna is well recognized, because this is what an introduction is about, isn't it?. Chrishonduras ( talk) 18:52, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
What do others think?. Best regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 23:25, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
I approve of the title "Queen of Pop" to e included in the lead. Madonna's the very first singer to have received that title, was referred to that countless times and is the most successful female musician in history. Just like Michael Jackson, she was inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Israell ( talk) 01:37, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Been a long time. As I have shown previously with [some] several sources, and as we all know, Madonna is often referred as the Queen of Pop by the press [international]. In order to include this information in the introduction I suggest the inclusion of the following phrase in the first paragraph of the article: "She is often referred by the press as the Queen of Pop".... With that, I suggest as well the addition of a note like this one: "Several artists have [also] been called ocassionally by the press as the Queen of Pop such as the case of Janet Jackson and Whitney Houston. My proposal is simple [and is neutral] and does not have any value judgments or fallacies like Argumentum ad populum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrishonduras ( talk • contribs) 21:50, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
It is clear that all alias belongs to nobody, including "King of Pop"; but good I have no problem with that (When its this happens with artists such as Presley, Jackson, Cher or Spears; I can say -and demonstrate- that in the context of Madonna and "Queen of Pop", other artists who have been so called ocasionally with this nick, have also been called as "Madonna" (clearly, worldwide media); This is a context that does not happen with other artists, as Queen of Rock, Queen of Soul...). Anyway, thank you all for participating. Regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 23:01, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank You for your comment, BIO. Well, I have analyzed the situation and Jennie and her editing is well. Since in that section is about the relationship of the press and Madonna. Maybe we could specify more that Madonna has been treated as well since the 1980s, is a fact, with specific references ( [62] and/or [63]) or common sense (the references I have presented above; 1980s until present).
In any case, I think that this counterproposal will be the last (permanent, determinate...), because it is largely a fact that Madonna is referred as "Queen of Pop" to by the world press and critics or journalists of music (sources by variants, e.g Rolling Stone US, Rolling Stone Argentina, Rolling Stone Spain; Reuters Spain, Reuters France); year by year, e.g BBC News 2000, BBC News 2001, BBC News 2002, BBC News 2003, BBC News 2004, BBC News 2005....; the only one with these terms: "undisputed, eternal". As well to scientific journals, popular culture or of political (in short, any reference unlabeled), etc. In the end, all possibles contexts and this is exactly the opposite with other artists (including the "Madonnas" and all temporary pop queens -all variants-; Rihanna or Beyoncé = "Black Madonna", Gloria Trevi or Yuri = "Mexican Madonna", Shakira, Gloria Estefan or Thalía = "Latin Madonna"; Lady Gaga or Gwen Stefani = "The Next Madonna".... etc, etc). Best regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 01:33, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I thought about this when I added the note. If this happened (since it is likely that this discussion will crop up from time to time and there would be users who would remove it continuously) definitely will have to insert the note and emphasize this discussion. Right now, all for common sense :). Regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 05:49, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Well, the comparison to other artists no is necessary. The rest of the note? It may be relevant then add. Regards, Chrishonduras ( talk) 14:38, 14 April 2013 (UTC)