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Mackenzie Ziegler article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 27 December 2016. The result of the discussion was keep. |
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This article is incorrectly named. All WP:Reliable sources and nearly all "news" sources (and even the subject's own social media) refer to this subject as "Mackenzie". "Kenzie" is a nickname used only by her friends, and perhaps some fans. See: https://www.google.com/#q=%22mackenzie+ziegler%22&tbm=nws vs. https://www.google.com/#tbm=nws&q=%22Kenzie+ziegler%22 I have asked an admin to move the article to Mackenzie Ziegler, which is a page that was previously protected from creation. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 08:36, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
The Manual of Style says: "Whether to include an infobox ... is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article." While sports and politician bios can benefit from infoboxes, most articles in liberal arts fields, as here, do not. See arbitration report: "Infoboxes may be particularly unsuited to liberal arts fields when they repeat information already available in the lead section of the article, are misleading or oversimplify the topic for the reader". I disagree with including an infobox in this article because: (1) The box would emphasize unimportant factoids stripped of context and lacking nuance, in competition with the WP:LEAD section, which emphasizes and contextualizes the most important facts. (2) Since the most important points in the article are already discussed in the Lead, or adequately discussed in the body of the article, the box would be redundant. (3) It would take up valuable space at the top of the article and hamper the layout and impact of the Lead. (4) Frequent errors creep into infoboxes, as updates are made to the articles but not reflected in the redundant info in the box, and they tend to draw more vandalism and fancruft than other parts of articles. (5) The infobox template creates a block of code at the top of the edit screen that discourages new editors from editing the article. (6) It would discourage readers from reading the text of the article. (7) IBs distract editors from focusing on the content of the article. Instead of improving the article, they spend time working on this repetitive feature and its coding and formatting. See also WP:DISINFOBOX. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 09:28, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Infobox added against consensus (see "WP:DISINFOBOX" section above) by User:Jade.parker123. Infobox should be removed. 50.81.227.4 ( talk) 19:07, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the reminder. Done. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 00:45, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
Done. I added it to the table. Probably not necessary to mention it in the text. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 18:44, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
Why is this page protected from vandalism? I just wanted to add some stuff about her! Dance.moms.fanz ( talk) 06:42, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
This page has been protected because of an edit war if one of the sentences needs an Oxford comma.-- 100.1.76.9 ( talk) 01:12, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
Is it necessary to add an Infobox to this article? And if it is which one is appropriate here - musical artist or actor. PushaWasha ( talk) 10:44, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
Sorry I have seen a previous discussion on this matter. PushaWasha ( talk) 10:45, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
BBC News calls Ziegler a singer. In addition to all the references already in the article discussing Ziegler's albums and songs, here are more articles discussing Ziegler's albums and songs: Billboard, Paper, which reviews 3 of Ziegler's songs in one article, PopSugar, E!, Teen Vogue, Elite Daily, People, Seventeen, CelebMix, Entertainment Tonight, Seventeen again, Paper again, Yahoo!, 1883, 2Paragraphs, and The Things. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 06:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
Could someone please upload a recent photo with no copyright to Wiki Upload page? The photo currently listed is from 2018, which is quite outdated considering it was four years ago. Jacksongreen1442 ( talk) 23:31, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
2601:83:201:A980:B4CF:823F:41CF:4C69 ( talk) 02:59, 14 August 2022 (UTC) Age 18
Hi guys. I thought I'd let you know that a discussion on adding infoboxes to Maddie's article is currently occurring, and the discussion has also mentioned adding Kenzie's infobox as well in an attempt to change consensus. Some editors who more actively edit both Maddie and Mackenzie's article have already commented (notably Ssilvers); thought I would give others an opportunity to comment as the discussion's result may transfer to both Ziegler sisters' articles. Just thought I'd let y'all know. Thanks! InvadingInvader ( talk) 17:45, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
Mackenzie Ziegler | ||||||||||
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![]() Ziegler in 2018 | ||||||||||
Born | Mackenzie Frances Ziegler June 4, 2004
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US | |||||||||
Years active | 2011–present | |||||||||
Relatives | Maddie Ziegler (sister) | |||||||||
Musical career | ||||||||||
Genres | Pop | |||||||||
Instruments | Vocals | |||||||||
Labels | Hollywood Records | |||||||||
YouTube information | ||||||||||
Channels | kenzie | |||||||||
Location | Los Angeles, California | |||||||||
Years active | 2015–present | |||||||||
Genre(s) | Music, Vlog | |||||||||
Subscribers |
| |||||||||
Total views |
| |||||||||
|
So I did a little bit more reading into the entire concept of Infoboxes as Ssilvers' previously pointed out, and it seems like that Mackenzie deserves one even more so than Maddie, referencing the discussion on Maddie's talk page. In contrast to Maddie, Mackenzie is a recording artist and more of a public figure than her older sister, which warrants the inclusion of her record label (which according to the most recent single she released is the Disney subsidiary Hollywood Records), and it seems like that any well-written lead would not be able to graphically represent the information in a way that the infobox accommodates to certain audiences. Ssilvers' reasons as presented on Maddie's infobox. The information as presented in the box, while relatively trivial compared to Ziegler's life story, is a crucial part of her career and the laid-out structure of an infobox allows for much quicker retrieval of information for humans. The foregoing, and Ssilvers' previous easily-refutable arguments on vandalism towards infoboxes on Maddie's IB discussion (lol we can revert and rollback vandalism with one or two clicks) to me justifies the inclusion of some sort of infobox, and I encourage the community to strongly change its consensus against Mackenzie's infobox inclusion. I've also inserted a suggested infobox for Ziegler to the side. Pinging previous discussion participants @ Ssilvers, @ SchroCat, @ Hunterm267, @ UWS Guy to this discussion, as well as participants on the Maddie IB discussion @ Geraldo Perez, @ Dronebogus, @ Wizzito, @ Tim Riley, @ Jack1956, @ Nemov, and @ Somambulant1 for their thoughts. InvadingInvader ( userpage, talk) 02:05, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Mackenzie Ziegler | ||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
![]() Ziegler in 2018 | ||||||||||
Born | Mackenzie Frances Ziegler June 4, 2004
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US | |||||||||
Years active | 2011–present | |||||||||
Relatives | Maddie Ziegler (sister) | |||||||||
Musical career | ||||||||||
Genres | Pop | |||||||||
Instruments | Vocals | |||||||||
Labels | Hollywood Records | |||||||||
YouTube information | ||||||||||
Channels | kenzie | |||||||||
Location | Los Angeles, California | |||||||||
Years active | 2015–present | |||||||||
Genre(s) | Music, Vlog | |||||||||
Subscribers |
| |||||||||
Total views |
| |||||||||
|
First of all I would like to ask Wikipeidans per
Wikipedia:ARBINFOBOX2, please try to concentrate comments for infoboxes specific to this article and not general comments about them in the first place.
The IB to the right is the draft I would propose; you are welcome to revise it as needed aside from intentional sabotage to prevent an infobox. (
WP:POINT)
Given Ziegler has a much more expansive career on YouTube, I find it necessary to include such details outside of prose and do not see an issue with redundancy. These statistics are often needed in culture for quick look-up facts. By forcing people to refer to prose, editors
disrupt Wikipedia to make a point. InvadingInvader (
userpage,
talk)
23:45, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mackenzie Ziegler article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 27 December 2016. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is incorrectly named. All WP:Reliable sources and nearly all "news" sources (and even the subject's own social media) refer to this subject as "Mackenzie". "Kenzie" is a nickname used only by her friends, and perhaps some fans. See: https://www.google.com/#q=%22mackenzie+ziegler%22&tbm=nws vs. https://www.google.com/#tbm=nws&q=%22Kenzie+ziegler%22 I have asked an admin to move the article to Mackenzie Ziegler, which is a page that was previously protected from creation. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 08:36, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
The Manual of Style says: "Whether to include an infobox ... is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article." While sports and politician bios can benefit from infoboxes, most articles in liberal arts fields, as here, do not. See arbitration report: "Infoboxes may be particularly unsuited to liberal arts fields when they repeat information already available in the lead section of the article, are misleading or oversimplify the topic for the reader". I disagree with including an infobox in this article because: (1) The box would emphasize unimportant factoids stripped of context and lacking nuance, in competition with the WP:LEAD section, which emphasizes and contextualizes the most important facts. (2) Since the most important points in the article are already discussed in the Lead, or adequately discussed in the body of the article, the box would be redundant. (3) It would take up valuable space at the top of the article and hamper the layout and impact of the Lead. (4) Frequent errors creep into infoboxes, as updates are made to the articles but not reflected in the redundant info in the box, and they tend to draw more vandalism and fancruft than other parts of articles. (5) The infobox template creates a block of code at the top of the edit screen that discourages new editors from editing the article. (6) It would discourage readers from reading the text of the article. (7) IBs distract editors from focusing on the content of the article. Instead of improving the article, they spend time working on this repetitive feature and its coding and formatting. See also WP:DISINFOBOX. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 09:28, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Infobox added against consensus (see "WP:DISINFOBOX" section above) by User:Jade.parker123. Infobox should be removed. 50.81.227.4 ( talk) 19:07, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the reminder. Done. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 00:45, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
Done. I added it to the table. Probably not necessary to mention it in the text. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 18:44, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
Why is this page protected from vandalism? I just wanted to add some stuff about her! Dance.moms.fanz ( talk) 06:42, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
This page has been protected because of an edit war if one of the sentences needs an Oxford comma.-- 100.1.76.9 ( talk) 01:12, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
Is it necessary to add an Infobox to this article? And if it is which one is appropriate here - musical artist or actor. PushaWasha ( talk) 10:44, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
Sorry I have seen a previous discussion on this matter. PushaWasha ( talk) 10:45, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
BBC News calls Ziegler a singer. In addition to all the references already in the article discussing Ziegler's albums and songs, here are more articles discussing Ziegler's albums and songs: Billboard, Paper, which reviews 3 of Ziegler's songs in one article, PopSugar, E!, Teen Vogue, Elite Daily, People, Seventeen, CelebMix, Entertainment Tonight, Seventeen again, Paper again, Yahoo!, 1883, 2Paragraphs, and The Things. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 06:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
Could someone please upload a recent photo with no copyright to Wiki Upload page? The photo currently listed is from 2018, which is quite outdated considering it was four years ago. Jacksongreen1442 ( talk) 23:31, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
2601:83:201:A980:B4CF:823F:41CF:4C69 ( talk) 02:59, 14 August 2022 (UTC) Age 18
Hi guys. I thought I'd let you know that a discussion on adding infoboxes to Maddie's article is currently occurring, and the discussion has also mentioned adding Kenzie's infobox as well in an attempt to change consensus. Some editors who more actively edit both Maddie and Mackenzie's article have already commented (notably Ssilvers); thought I would give others an opportunity to comment as the discussion's result may transfer to both Ziegler sisters' articles. Just thought I'd let y'all know. Thanks! InvadingInvader ( talk) 17:45, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
Mackenzie Ziegler | ||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
![]() Ziegler in 2018 | ||||||||||
Born | Mackenzie Frances Ziegler June 4, 2004
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US | |||||||||
Years active | 2011–present | |||||||||
Relatives | Maddie Ziegler (sister) | |||||||||
Musical career | ||||||||||
Genres | Pop | |||||||||
Instruments | Vocals | |||||||||
Labels | Hollywood Records | |||||||||
YouTube information | ||||||||||
Channels | kenzie | |||||||||
Location | Los Angeles, California | |||||||||
Years active | 2015–present | |||||||||
Genre(s) | Music, Vlog | |||||||||
Subscribers |
| |||||||||
Total views |
| |||||||||
|
So I did a little bit more reading into the entire concept of Infoboxes as Ssilvers' previously pointed out, and it seems like that Mackenzie deserves one even more so than Maddie, referencing the discussion on Maddie's talk page. In contrast to Maddie, Mackenzie is a recording artist and more of a public figure than her older sister, which warrants the inclusion of her record label (which according to the most recent single she released is the Disney subsidiary Hollywood Records), and it seems like that any well-written lead would not be able to graphically represent the information in a way that the infobox accommodates to certain audiences. Ssilvers' reasons as presented on Maddie's infobox. The information as presented in the box, while relatively trivial compared to Ziegler's life story, is a crucial part of her career and the laid-out structure of an infobox allows for much quicker retrieval of information for humans. The foregoing, and Ssilvers' previous easily-refutable arguments on vandalism towards infoboxes on Maddie's IB discussion (lol we can revert and rollback vandalism with one or two clicks) to me justifies the inclusion of some sort of infobox, and I encourage the community to strongly change its consensus against Mackenzie's infobox inclusion. I've also inserted a suggested infobox for Ziegler to the side. Pinging previous discussion participants @ Ssilvers, @ SchroCat, @ Hunterm267, @ UWS Guy to this discussion, as well as participants on the Maddie IB discussion @ Geraldo Perez, @ Dronebogus, @ Wizzito, @ Tim Riley, @ Jack1956, @ Nemov, and @ Somambulant1 for their thoughts. InvadingInvader ( userpage, talk) 02:05, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Mackenzie Ziegler | ||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
![]() Ziegler in 2018 | ||||||||||
Born | Mackenzie Frances Ziegler June 4, 2004
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US | |||||||||
Years active | 2011–present | |||||||||
Relatives | Maddie Ziegler (sister) | |||||||||
Musical career | ||||||||||
Genres | Pop | |||||||||
Instruments | Vocals | |||||||||
Labels | Hollywood Records | |||||||||
YouTube information | ||||||||||
Channels | kenzie | |||||||||
Location | Los Angeles, California | |||||||||
Years active | 2015–present | |||||||||
Genre(s) | Music, Vlog | |||||||||
Subscribers |
| |||||||||
Total views |
| |||||||||
|
First of all I would like to ask Wikipeidans per
Wikipedia:ARBINFOBOX2, please try to concentrate comments for infoboxes specific to this article and not general comments about them in the first place.
The IB to the right is the draft I would propose; you are welcome to revise it as needed aside from intentional sabotage to prevent an infobox. (
WP:POINT)
Given Ziegler has a much more expansive career on YouTube, I find it necessary to include such details outside of prose and do not see an issue with redundancy. These statistics are often needed in culture for quick look-up facts. By forcing people to refer to prose, editors
disrupt Wikipedia to make a point. InvadingInvader (
userpage,
talk)
23:45, 21 December 2023 (UTC)