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Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Kaillera violates the MAME copyright by linking to a closed source library.
please see http://haze.mameworld.info/2006/08/06/mame-on-wikipedia/
Here it is clearly stated that such builds are Illegal due to incompatible licenses. MAME can not be linked against closed source libaries.
Wikipedia policy is stated here as
“External sites can possibly violate copyright. Linking to copyrighted works is usually not a problem, as long as you have made a reasonable effort to determine that the page in question is not violating someone else’s copyright. If it is, please do not link to the page. ”
therfore the majority of the Kaillera article is Illegal, and against Wiki policy, either because no reasonable effort was made to ensure that the links do not violate somebody else's copyright, or because the author knows and does not care that they do. There is no legal way to use MAME and Kaillera together.
As noted above -- the fact that an action is illegal in no way means that Wikipedia shouldn't describe and cover that action. We have articles on murders for goodness sake, and copyright violation is a much lesser offense. -- FOo 03:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
You and other users are continuosly comparing the wikipedia article murder to MAME. If you and others have a brain you have noticed what the "illegal" information contained in murder is for documentation/study, not really need make bad acts whit this "illegal" information... But.. The article of MAME is really different, if you include links to illegal builds of MAME and roms this only is a benefit for the gamers warez kiddies and for ilegal sellers. This is the real difference of the article MAME in comparison to murder. The Wikipedia is a free way of information and not a way for the warez kiddies to obtain links to illegal material(movies, applications, games. See the word Warez of the wikipedia and look if it have any illegal link to a Warez site, only for compare it...). -- Auslur 14:35, 7 August 2006 (GMT+1)
Auslur 23:40, 7 August 2006 (GMT+1)
Auslur 01:55, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)
Auslur 01:50, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)
Auslur 19:45, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)
Auslur 19:49, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)
The file hiscore.dat for MAME is a file for support the save of the hiscores for games what in the real hardware not save the hiscores(see the games Pacman or Frogger).
The support of hiscore.dat is removed of MAME various versions ago, and support totally removed from the source of MAME in the version 0.107u1. The hiscore.dat not work with the official MAME version 0.107u1 and up. Including links to hiscore.dat is useless, this simply doesn't work with the official MAME discussed here, is only the past of MAME and a simple reference of information about it in the article is enough, the links to it are useless. You read an article writed by Haze(a MAME developer) about the hiscore.dat and other things of MAME, when Haze have writed this information are the Senior/Leader of MAME, now is Aaron Giles and the philosophy about the hiscore.dat are the same. Here the link:
http://haze.mameworld.info/2005/08/23/the-mamedev-cut/
Auslur 20:20, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)
I agree that a lot of the information in the article is unneccessary or at least unrelated to MAME. However, I find the size of a "full" ROM set to be one of the more interesting properties, simply because of the vast size of emulated ROM data. And this is not linked to the number of games emulated, there exist emulators for other systems which emulate more games but have a (reportedly) smaller "full ROM set" (SNES for example). Darkstar 20:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Much of the information in the ROM image section was simply duplicating what is already discussed in the main ROM images article.
I've edited this and replaced much of the information with MAME specific details, detailing the MAME philosophy on Romsets, Rom naming etc which differs greatly when compared to say Console emulation where the focus is more on 'playing games'. This is much more relevant to the article then generic information on 'Where to get roms' which is already covered elsewhere.
MAME specific details such as Gridlee and Robby Roto have been left, and Alien Arena, another Legal rom has been mentioned.
There are better places to discuss the details of getting ROMs than in an article about MAME. MAME is an emulator, its connection with ROMs is simply that it requires them to run. Telling people how to get ROMs doesn't tell them anything about MAME as an emulator and is straying off-topic, the new information is more about MAME, and less about 'getting ROMs' Details of Robby Roto etc. do still relate to MAME as the MAME developers were granted special permission to distribute them.
It currently needs a tidy up, I'm not great at formatting, nor familiar with the standards in Wiki layout. The new information is correct, but the presentation of it needs work.
I've done some formatting and I restructured a line or two (no actual content edits). I feel that the paragraph needs an image, perhaps a CPS board? Then the Mac image can move up a paragraph. Specularr 13:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure this section should be here. If it should be here, I think the use of the word "pure" makes it read as being non-neutral. Whether the section is "pro-MAME" or "anti-MAME" is not entirely clear, but once the word "pure" gets in there, neutrality goes out the window. Specifically, when reading it, I definitely get the feeling that the author has a negative attitude towards MAME and prefers UltraHLE because it runs faster. PragmaticallyWyrd 11:27, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Since the cleanup the MAME page is now completely lacking in any information on the 'official' ports such as SDLMame, XMame and MacMAME. These are more relevant to the project than say Raine is (which is just another Arcade emulator, and is unrelated to the MAME codebase). Also HazeMD is based entirely on the MAME code, not the MESS code. MESS has a completely different approach to console emulation and supported sets, so it probably belongs here, not on the MESS page where it has been moved to. I can't see why removing accurate external links which are important and relevant to the article is progress. --S
My excuse: if the arcades still had these games I would play them there. Because of these new, flashy games, the good ol' classics. But, because those money-grubbing jerks called Namco, I can't play a friggin' game of Pac-Man in peace (and Galaga, Pole Position, Rally-X, and Bosconian) Pacmanfever 23:31, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I suggest we change the OS label to something that incorporates the newer technology that MAME can be run on. I think it is of some importance that people know MAME can be run from systems like the XBOX & PSP. Alternativley a label below "OS" called "ports" might work. Snowbound 00:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Seems there is still an edit war going on here about which page is the official/correct/right/... website for the MAME project. There are two contenders for that title: First, http://www.mame.net, which claims to be The MAME website. Second, http://www.mamedev.org which says it is The official site of the MAME development team (emphasis mine). So none of these two sites claim that they're the official MAME site. Clearly, www.mame.net is not obsolete yet, because it still hosts the forums, screenshots, samples, artwork, etc. However, as I understand it, the sources and binaries on mamedev.org are to be considered the "official" ones. Maybe this should be clarified in the article? -- Darkstar 13:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
In Nicola Salmoria's thesis was written on MAME, and is a fascinating read. Aside from putting it in the references section, perhaps, I would like some commentary on the pronunciation note given on page 5:
Pronunciato “mame”, non “meim”.
How does this sound in English? -- Edwin Herdman 05:07, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a MAME32 link in this article. However, MAME32 redirects to MAME itself and there is no info about MAME32 on wikipedia. -- CrazyTerabyte 18:59, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Are there any plans in the works to make it possible to play 2-player MAME games with other people over the internet? Captain Zyrain 05:56, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Most online games are of the fighting variety. It's difficult to find anyone interested in anything else. 2fort5r ( talk) 23:40, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
mame32 redirects here but the article provides no information about that program - so are we adding it to this article or splitting this article? -- Fredrick day 16:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm wondering why the MAME arcade cabinet article now redirects to MAME? The MAME article discusses the emulator. There is a link to "MAME arcade cabinet" in the article, but it is a redirect to the same article. I gather there was at one time a separate article about cabinets. Myself, I feel that given the number of pages out there about various enthusiasts' home-built arcade cabinets running MAME (as well as Jammer and others), there is sufficient grounds for a separate article. I'll pursue this more once I'm home. -- ¥ Jacky Tar 22:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I've been updating the number for "nth proper release" (2nd paragraph) for a while, but I have no source for it. Should this number be removed from the article? -- jh51681 ( talk) 00:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
To play a particular game, MAME requires a set of files called a ROM set. They contain all the data from the original machine; however, MAME itself does not include any of these files. For analog media, such as laserdiscs and magnetic tapes with audio/video data, it is impossible to make a 100% accurate digital copy. The process necessarily involves an analogue-digital conversion and the resultant reduction in quality.
This sounds a little fishy. If the data cannot be read reliably, wouldn't that also be true for the arcade hardware? You would end up with random, non-deterministic code and data, likely resulting in a crash. What is this passage actually trying to say? It's one thing if an analog medium is damaged in a way that makes it impossible to recover a bit-for-bit copy of the data, but what does that have to do with MAME? Ham Pastrami ( talk) 09:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
For months now the official website has shown nothing but a default Apache webpage, what's up with this? Are the MAME devs asleep or have they been frozen to be waken up later in the future? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.44.166.245 ( talk) 11:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
What exactly do the screenshots of non-free games add to the article? We've got someone in Templates for deletion who thinks they don't add anything significant that can't be expressed just as well with text. -- Damian Yerrick ( talk | stalk) 17:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know why new versions of MAME do not recognize old romsets? Surely there can be only one version of each romset? What happens when a romset is updated? Is the data changed somehow, or just the "packaging"? 2fort5r ( talk) 23:43, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
The MAME team has not diverged from this purist philosophy to take advantage of 3D hardware available on PCs today. It is a common but incorrect assumption that performance problems are due to some games' use of 3D graphics. However, even with graphics disabled, games using RISC processors and other modern hardware are not emulated any faster. Thus taking advantage of 3D hardware would not speed these games up significantly. In addition, using 3D hardware would make it difficult to guarantee identical output between different brands of cards, or even revisions of drivers on the same card, which goes against the MAME philosophy. Consistency of output across platforms is very important to the MAME team.
It is not true, i tested a mame with 3d hardware acceleration and runs at decent framerate (50-60fps), while the raster version run at most at 5-10fps.
-- 201.222.151.213 ( talk) 23:04, 17 November 2009 (UTC)-- 201.222.151.213 ( talk) 23:04, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Would it make sense cnsidering that it isto do with MAME to incorperate an overview of thee emulae boards? ex.
Konami DJ-Main Konami System537 (Imperfect) Konami Viper (Preliminary) System 246 (Very Preliminary) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Silrox9 ( talk • contribs) 02:29, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Is there any way to LEGALLY purchase ROMs from late 70's, early 80's arcade machines? If not, could this possibly happen in the near future? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.100.52.87 ( talk) 18:37, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
MAME's license forbids commercial use. Are there any other similar projects that permit it? Are any of them open source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.221.144 ( talk) 01:57, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be noted, under the uX section that uX updates are normally released in 32/64/C2D builds on MAMEWorld.net? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.91.64 ( talk) 22:28, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
...but I thought this image could be used to describe something related to this topic. If anyone is more in the know, please use it. Thanks. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 10:55, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I added a bit about Stuart Campbell's criticism of the MAME developer philosophy, but it keeps getting deleted. Campbell is mentioned on Wikipedia - a cursory Google search shows this. He is a professional writer mentioned in the articles for Your Sinclair, Sega Zone, Space Giraffe, Retro Gamer, Mega (magazine), The Train Game. He's cited in even more. -- Jtalledo (talk) 00:31, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm somewhat ambivalent about the removal of source material here (we're crying out for secondary sources), but importantly that article also contains some historical information on development (for instance, who took over from Nicola and when) which we don't currently cover. I'm putting it back in for the time being until I can properly incorporate the good bits into the rest of the article. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 14:15, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Kaillera violates the MAME copyright by linking to a closed source library.
please see http://haze.mameworld.info/2006/08/06/mame-on-wikipedia/
Here it is clearly stated that such builds are Illegal due to incompatible licenses. MAME can not be linked against closed source libaries.
Wikipedia policy is stated here as
“External sites can possibly violate copyright. Linking to copyrighted works is usually not a problem, as long as you have made a reasonable effort to determine that the page in question is not violating someone else’s copyright. If it is, please do not link to the page. ”
therfore the majority of the Kaillera article is Illegal, and against Wiki policy, either because no reasonable effort was made to ensure that the links do not violate somebody else's copyright, or because the author knows and does not care that they do. There is no legal way to use MAME and Kaillera together.
As noted above -- the fact that an action is illegal in no way means that Wikipedia shouldn't describe and cover that action. We have articles on murders for goodness sake, and copyright violation is a much lesser offense. -- FOo 03:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
You and other users are continuosly comparing the wikipedia article murder to MAME. If you and others have a brain you have noticed what the "illegal" information contained in murder is for documentation/study, not really need make bad acts whit this "illegal" information... But.. The article of MAME is really different, if you include links to illegal builds of MAME and roms this only is a benefit for the gamers warez kiddies and for ilegal sellers. This is the real difference of the article MAME in comparison to murder. The Wikipedia is a free way of information and not a way for the warez kiddies to obtain links to illegal material(movies, applications, games. See the word Warez of the wikipedia and look if it have any illegal link to a Warez site, only for compare it...). -- Auslur 14:35, 7 August 2006 (GMT+1)
Auslur 23:40, 7 August 2006 (GMT+1)
Auslur 01:55, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)
Auslur 01:50, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)
Auslur 19:45, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)
Auslur 19:49, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)
The file hiscore.dat for MAME is a file for support the save of the hiscores for games what in the real hardware not save the hiscores(see the games Pacman or Frogger).
The support of hiscore.dat is removed of MAME various versions ago, and support totally removed from the source of MAME in the version 0.107u1. The hiscore.dat not work with the official MAME version 0.107u1 and up. Including links to hiscore.dat is useless, this simply doesn't work with the official MAME discussed here, is only the past of MAME and a simple reference of information about it in the article is enough, the links to it are useless. You read an article writed by Haze(a MAME developer) about the hiscore.dat and other things of MAME, when Haze have writed this information are the Senior/Leader of MAME, now is Aaron Giles and the philosophy about the hiscore.dat are the same. Here the link:
http://haze.mameworld.info/2005/08/23/the-mamedev-cut/
Auslur 20:20, 8 August 2006 (GMT+1)
I agree that a lot of the information in the article is unneccessary or at least unrelated to MAME. However, I find the size of a "full" ROM set to be one of the more interesting properties, simply because of the vast size of emulated ROM data. And this is not linked to the number of games emulated, there exist emulators for other systems which emulate more games but have a (reportedly) smaller "full ROM set" (SNES for example). Darkstar 20:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Much of the information in the ROM image section was simply duplicating what is already discussed in the main ROM images article.
I've edited this and replaced much of the information with MAME specific details, detailing the MAME philosophy on Romsets, Rom naming etc which differs greatly when compared to say Console emulation where the focus is more on 'playing games'. This is much more relevant to the article then generic information on 'Where to get roms' which is already covered elsewhere.
MAME specific details such as Gridlee and Robby Roto have been left, and Alien Arena, another Legal rom has been mentioned.
There are better places to discuss the details of getting ROMs than in an article about MAME. MAME is an emulator, its connection with ROMs is simply that it requires them to run. Telling people how to get ROMs doesn't tell them anything about MAME as an emulator and is straying off-topic, the new information is more about MAME, and less about 'getting ROMs' Details of Robby Roto etc. do still relate to MAME as the MAME developers were granted special permission to distribute them.
It currently needs a tidy up, I'm not great at formatting, nor familiar with the standards in Wiki layout. The new information is correct, but the presentation of it needs work.
I've done some formatting and I restructured a line or two (no actual content edits). I feel that the paragraph needs an image, perhaps a CPS board? Then the Mac image can move up a paragraph. Specularr 13:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure this section should be here. If it should be here, I think the use of the word "pure" makes it read as being non-neutral. Whether the section is "pro-MAME" or "anti-MAME" is not entirely clear, but once the word "pure" gets in there, neutrality goes out the window. Specifically, when reading it, I definitely get the feeling that the author has a negative attitude towards MAME and prefers UltraHLE because it runs faster. PragmaticallyWyrd 11:27, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Since the cleanup the MAME page is now completely lacking in any information on the 'official' ports such as SDLMame, XMame and MacMAME. These are more relevant to the project than say Raine is (which is just another Arcade emulator, and is unrelated to the MAME codebase). Also HazeMD is based entirely on the MAME code, not the MESS code. MESS has a completely different approach to console emulation and supported sets, so it probably belongs here, not on the MESS page where it has been moved to. I can't see why removing accurate external links which are important and relevant to the article is progress. --S
My excuse: if the arcades still had these games I would play them there. Because of these new, flashy games, the good ol' classics. But, because those money-grubbing jerks called Namco, I can't play a friggin' game of Pac-Man in peace (and Galaga, Pole Position, Rally-X, and Bosconian) Pacmanfever 23:31, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I suggest we change the OS label to something that incorporates the newer technology that MAME can be run on. I think it is of some importance that people know MAME can be run from systems like the XBOX & PSP. Alternativley a label below "OS" called "ports" might work. Snowbound 00:57, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Seems there is still an edit war going on here about which page is the official/correct/right/... website for the MAME project. There are two contenders for that title: First, http://www.mame.net, which claims to be The MAME website. Second, http://www.mamedev.org which says it is The official site of the MAME development team (emphasis mine). So none of these two sites claim that they're the official MAME site. Clearly, www.mame.net is not obsolete yet, because it still hosts the forums, screenshots, samples, artwork, etc. However, as I understand it, the sources and binaries on mamedev.org are to be considered the "official" ones. Maybe this should be clarified in the article? -- Darkstar 13:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
In Nicola Salmoria's thesis was written on MAME, and is a fascinating read. Aside from putting it in the references section, perhaps, I would like some commentary on the pronunciation note given on page 5:
Pronunciato “mame”, non “meim”.
How does this sound in English? -- Edwin Herdman 05:07, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a MAME32 link in this article. However, MAME32 redirects to MAME itself and there is no info about MAME32 on wikipedia. -- CrazyTerabyte 18:59, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Are there any plans in the works to make it possible to play 2-player MAME games with other people over the internet? Captain Zyrain 05:56, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Most online games are of the fighting variety. It's difficult to find anyone interested in anything else. 2fort5r ( talk) 23:40, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
mame32 redirects here but the article provides no information about that program - so are we adding it to this article or splitting this article? -- Fredrick day 16:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm wondering why the MAME arcade cabinet article now redirects to MAME? The MAME article discusses the emulator. There is a link to "MAME arcade cabinet" in the article, but it is a redirect to the same article. I gather there was at one time a separate article about cabinets. Myself, I feel that given the number of pages out there about various enthusiasts' home-built arcade cabinets running MAME (as well as Jammer and others), there is sufficient grounds for a separate article. I'll pursue this more once I'm home. -- ¥ Jacky Tar 22:37, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I've been updating the number for "nth proper release" (2nd paragraph) for a while, but I have no source for it. Should this number be removed from the article? -- jh51681 ( talk) 00:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
To play a particular game, MAME requires a set of files called a ROM set. They contain all the data from the original machine; however, MAME itself does not include any of these files. For analog media, such as laserdiscs and magnetic tapes with audio/video data, it is impossible to make a 100% accurate digital copy. The process necessarily involves an analogue-digital conversion and the resultant reduction in quality.
This sounds a little fishy. If the data cannot be read reliably, wouldn't that also be true for the arcade hardware? You would end up with random, non-deterministic code and data, likely resulting in a crash. What is this passage actually trying to say? It's one thing if an analog medium is damaged in a way that makes it impossible to recover a bit-for-bit copy of the data, but what does that have to do with MAME? Ham Pastrami ( talk) 09:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
For months now the official website has shown nothing but a default Apache webpage, what's up with this? Are the MAME devs asleep or have they been frozen to be waken up later in the future? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.44.166.245 ( talk) 11:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
What exactly do the screenshots of non-free games add to the article? We've got someone in Templates for deletion who thinks they don't add anything significant that can't be expressed just as well with text. -- Damian Yerrick ( talk | stalk) 17:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone know why new versions of MAME do not recognize old romsets? Surely there can be only one version of each romset? What happens when a romset is updated? Is the data changed somehow, or just the "packaging"? 2fort5r ( talk) 23:43, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
The MAME team has not diverged from this purist philosophy to take advantage of 3D hardware available on PCs today. It is a common but incorrect assumption that performance problems are due to some games' use of 3D graphics. However, even with graphics disabled, games using RISC processors and other modern hardware are not emulated any faster. Thus taking advantage of 3D hardware would not speed these games up significantly. In addition, using 3D hardware would make it difficult to guarantee identical output between different brands of cards, or even revisions of drivers on the same card, which goes against the MAME philosophy. Consistency of output across platforms is very important to the MAME team.
It is not true, i tested a mame with 3d hardware acceleration and runs at decent framerate (50-60fps), while the raster version run at most at 5-10fps.
-- 201.222.151.213 ( talk) 23:04, 17 November 2009 (UTC)-- 201.222.151.213 ( talk) 23:04, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Would it make sense cnsidering that it isto do with MAME to incorperate an overview of thee emulae boards? ex.
Konami DJ-Main Konami System537 (Imperfect) Konami Viper (Preliminary) System 246 (Very Preliminary) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Silrox9 ( talk • contribs) 02:29, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Is there any way to LEGALLY purchase ROMs from late 70's, early 80's arcade machines? If not, could this possibly happen in the near future? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.100.52.87 ( talk) 18:37, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
MAME's license forbids commercial use. Are there any other similar projects that permit it? Are any of them open source? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.221.144 ( talk) 01:57, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be noted, under the uX section that uX updates are normally released in 32/64/C2D builds on MAMEWorld.net? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.91.64 ( talk) 22:28, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
...but I thought this image could be used to describe something related to this topic. If anyone is more in the know, please use it. Thanks. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 10:55, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
I added a bit about Stuart Campbell's criticism of the MAME developer philosophy, but it keeps getting deleted. Campbell is mentioned on Wikipedia - a cursory Google search shows this. He is a professional writer mentioned in the articles for Your Sinclair, Sega Zone, Space Giraffe, Retro Gamer, Mega (magazine), The Train Game. He's cited in even more. -- Jtalledo (talk) 00:31, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm somewhat ambivalent about the removal of source material here (we're crying out for secondary sources), but importantly that article also contains some historical information on development (for instance, who took over from Nicola and when) which we don't currently cover. I'm putting it back in for the time being until I can properly incorporate the good bits into the rest of the article. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 14:15, 11 April 2011 (UTC)