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I trimmed the Dropkick Murphy stuff - it was almost longer than the discussion of the MTA song itself. - DavidWBrooks 23:24, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It is apparent that much or all of this article was written without a working knowledge of the referenced places in this song. There was no 'Jamaica Plain' station recognized by the MTA at the time of this song's composition or recording. Jamaica Plain is a neighborhood that was served by the line on which 'Charlie' was riding (the Arborway trolley or streetcar line). There were no color designations for transit lines at the time of the creation of the song. Dogru144 04:15 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello - wondering why my contributions were reverted. If I made a mistake, I'd like to correct it. Thanks -- DPasiuk 16:00, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
But the reason I'm even here at this article is that I was reminded, in reading about the CharlieTicket, about a science fiction story in which a Professor (MIT?) achieves a topological realization whch makes a breakthrough into another dimension whilst riding on the T. It's lost to my mind whether the Professor was named Charlie, but his achievement offers an 'explanation' as to just why the original Charlie was never able to return. Also missing from my somewhat disheveled memory is the name of the story or the author. But, if it can be dredged up by someone, it would be a fine literaty counterpoint for this article. Under the heading ==Charlie in science fiction==, perhaps? ww 06:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Not sure if any of the previous comments are referencing this, but I'm a little disappointed that the humorous little bit discussing fare changes and Charlie's eligibility for the senior fare was deleted by DavidWBrooks ( see here). Even though it may not be "encyclopedic," it added value to the article and provided some interesting information about fare changes over the years. I attempted to look it up to read to someone and was surprised to see it missing. Any opposition to bringing it back? cluth 01:41, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
On that subject, I remember hearing that the MTA's name change to MBTA was because they couldn't live down the notoriety created by the Kingston Trio version of the song. Anything on this, even if somewhat speculative/ULish? Daniel Case 03:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
isn't the title really "the man who never returned"? --- christopher poole 19 mar 2007 68.46.164.176 00:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
The Boston mayoral election took place in 1949 -- ultimately, John Hynes defeated James Curley in an election that purportedly inspired The Last Hurrah. If the song was written for the mayoral election, why would it have been written in 1948? Does anyone have a citation in support of the 1948 date? AyaK 20:18, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Likely not, though. As the "Political Graveyard" site indicates (and it is the easiest web-accessible site; other official sites confirm) the election was Nov. 8, 1949. http://www.politicalgraveyard.com/geo/MA/ofc/boston.html We had a discussion about this confusion on the Kingston Trio message board. I'd suggest that the confusion arises in part because the liner notes for the "At Large" album on which the song appears mis-identifies the year as 1948, and even-numbered election years divisible by four are more common in the US anyway.. Of course, Hynes defeated the more prominent candidate James M. Curley (former mayor and Boston political legend) as well as O'Brien. Sensei48 15:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)Sensei48
I'm ruminating over a removal or two - the comment, for example, about Charlie's wife not handing him a nickel in the sandwich reflects something we all have thought but that does not belong in an NPOV encyclopedia article, especially with an exclamation point.
For the moment, however, I am adding two names. The Kingston Trio member who sings the verses and adds the "Et tu, Charlie?" at the end is Nick Reynolds, who turned 74 a couple of days ago. The song "Super Skier," though sung by the Chad Mitchell Trio, was written by the late pop-folk legend Bob Gibson. I'm not sure if either of these passages belong in an NPOV article, but as long as they are there, they should be accurate.
More needs to be said, I think, about the actual writers of the song, Hawes and Steiner, whose involvement with the folk music/progressive politics nexus goes well beyond this single song. Sensei48 15:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)Sensei48
In the article, it states, "In the Kingston Trio recording, the name "Walter A. O'Brien" was changed to "George O'Brien," apparently to avoid risking right-wing protests that had hit an earlier recording] during the Joseph McCarthy Hollywood blacklist era, when the song was seen as celebrating a progressive politician," and then cites a website containing a letter written by O'Brien's daughter to back this up. But the letter does not state that the reason was "to avoid risking right-wing protests." It says, "[The Kingston Trio] changed my Dad's name to George O'Brien, as they didn't want to be connected with radical politicians." Jimtrue 01:05, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
There was some discussion of the Jamaica Plain destination but no one mentions that Charlie could not have voted in that election even if his wife had handed him an absentee ballot along with the sandwich. The reason that Charlie 'goes down to the Kendell Square Station', which indicates that Charlie lives in Cambridge, not Boston. Changing the name to MBTA had nothing to do with the song but to the change in to a regional organization. The change was made in the mid or late 60's long after the song was a hit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.19.186.230 ( talk) 00:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
M.T.A. (song) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I trimmed the Dropkick Murphy stuff - it was almost longer than the discussion of the MTA song itself. - DavidWBrooks 23:24, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It is apparent that much or all of this article was written without a working knowledge of the referenced places in this song. There was no 'Jamaica Plain' station recognized by the MTA at the time of this song's composition or recording. Jamaica Plain is a neighborhood that was served by the line on which 'Charlie' was riding (the Arborway trolley or streetcar line). There were no color designations for transit lines at the time of the creation of the song. Dogru144 04:15 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello - wondering why my contributions were reverted. If I made a mistake, I'd like to correct it. Thanks -- DPasiuk 16:00, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
But the reason I'm even here at this article is that I was reminded, in reading about the CharlieTicket, about a science fiction story in which a Professor (MIT?) achieves a topological realization whch makes a breakthrough into another dimension whilst riding on the T. It's lost to my mind whether the Professor was named Charlie, but his achievement offers an 'explanation' as to just why the original Charlie was never able to return. Also missing from my somewhat disheveled memory is the name of the story or the author. But, if it can be dredged up by someone, it would be a fine literaty counterpoint for this article. Under the heading ==Charlie in science fiction==, perhaps? ww 06:20, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Not sure if any of the previous comments are referencing this, but I'm a little disappointed that the humorous little bit discussing fare changes and Charlie's eligibility for the senior fare was deleted by DavidWBrooks ( see here). Even though it may not be "encyclopedic," it added value to the article and provided some interesting information about fare changes over the years. I attempted to look it up to read to someone and was surprised to see it missing. Any opposition to bringing it back? cluth 01:41, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
On that subject, I remember hearing that the MTA's name change to MBTA was because they couldn't live down the notoriety created by the Kingston Trio version of the song. Anything on this, even if somewhat speculative/ULish? Daniel Case 03:43, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
isn't the title really "the man who never returned"? --- christopher poole 19 mar 2007 68.46.164.176 00:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
The Boston mayoral election took place in 1949 -- ultimately, John Hynes defeated James Curley in an election that purportedly inspired The Last Hurrah. If the song was written for the mayoral election, why would it have been written in 1948? Does anyone have a citation in support of the 1948 date? AyaK 20:18, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Likely not, though. As the "Political Graveyard" site indicates (and it is the easiest web-accessible site; other official sites confirm) the election was Nov. 8, 1949. http://www.politicalgraveyard.com/geo/MA/ofc/boston.html We had a discussion about this confusion on the Kingston Trio message board. I'd suggest that the confusion arises in part because the liner notes for the "At Large" album on which the song appears mis-identifies the year as 1948, and even-numbered election years divisible by four are more common in the US anyway.. Of course, Hynes defeated the more prominent candidate James M. Curley (former mayor and Boston political legend) as well as O'Brien. Sensei48 15:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)Sensei48
I'm ruminating over a removal or two - the comment, for example, about Charlie's wife not handing him a nickel in the sandwich reflects something we all have thought but that does not belong in an NPOV encyclopedia article, especially with an exclamation point.
For the moment, however, I am adding two names. The Kingston Trio member who sings the verses and adds the "Et tu, Charlie?" at the end is Nick Reynolds, who turned 74 a couple of days ago. The song "Super Skier," though sung by the Chad Mitchell Trio, was written by the late pop-folk legend Bob Gibson. I'm not sure if either of these passages belong in an NPOV article, but as long as they are there, they should be accurate.
More needs to be said, I think, about the actual writers of the song, Hawes and Steiner, whose involvement with the folk music/progressive politics nexus goes well beyond this single song. Sensei48 15:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)Sensei48
In the article, it states, "In the Kingston Trio recording, the name "Walter A. O'Brien" was changed to "George O'Brien," apparently to avoid risking right-wing protests that had hit an earlier recording] during the Joseph McCarthy Hollywood blacklist era, when the song was seen as celebrating a progressive politician," and then cites a website containing a letter written by O'Brien's daughter to back this up. But the letter does not state that the reason was "to avoid risking right-wing protests." It says, "[The Kingston Trio] changed my Dad's name to George O'Brien, as they didn't want to be connected with radical politicians." Jimtrue 01:05, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
There was some discussion of the Jamaica Plain destination but no one mentions that Charlie could not have voted in that election even if his wife had handed him an absentee ballot along with the sandwich. The reason that Charlie 'goes down to the Kendell Square Station', which indicates that Charlie lives in Cambridge, not Boston. Changing the name to MBTA had nothing to do with the song but to the change in to a regional organization. The change was made in the mid or late 60's long after the song was a hit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.19.186.230 ( talk) 00:58, 19 July 2009 (UTC)