![]() | Lyfing (archbishop of Canterbury) has been listed as one of the
Philosophy and religion good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: June 16, 2022. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
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This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 07:15, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 01:06, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Lyfing (Archbishop of Canterbury) → Lyfing (bishop) — Revert of a mistaken move contrary to WP:BISHOP D B D 20:22, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Johannes Schade ( talk · contribs) 11:17, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Welcome
Good day
User:Ealdgyth: I will be your reviewer for this, the first GA nomination of the article
Lyfing (archbishop of Canterbury). As you know, I am an apprentice-reviewer, much much less experienced than you. Also consider that I have no prior knowledge of the subject. Please tell me when I go wrong.
I start a first traverse.
... Living, or Ælfstan ...- I was astonished to see that Living is bold whereas Ælfstan is cursive. Is this intended? In the sction "Early career" below Ælfstan is not italicised. You cite ODNB online, which many readers cannot access because of the subscription requirement. Would it not be better to cite the print book available in Internet Archive
*{{Cite encyclopedia|last=Mason |first=Emma |editor1-last=Matthew |editor1-first=Colin |editor1-link=Colin Matthew |editor2-last=Harrison |editor2-first=Brian |editor2-link=Brian Harrison (historian) |date=2004 |title=Lyfing (d. 1020) |encyclopedia=[[Oxford Dictionary of National Biography]] |volume=34 |publisher=[[Oxford University Press]] |location=New York |pages=857–858 |isbn=0-19-861385-7 |url=https://archive.org/details/isbn_0198613849/page/857/ |url-access=registration}}
at https://archive.org/details/isbn_0198613849/page/857/ (offensive remark discussed below struck out with apologies).
|location=
, |url=
and |url-acess=
in one "Cite book" I had added, saying "location" is old-fashioned and URLs are unusual because ISBNs suffice. But I, apprentice-reviewer, here sit struggling to find the sources I need to read to understand the subject better and to do the spot-check that seems to be required. Why should some Wikipedian go out of his way to withhold that URL from me? Sorry, I think I talk too much. With many thanks and best regards,
Johannes Schade (
talk)
21:19, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
—Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 11:17, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
He was abbot of Chertsey Abbey from about 989.[1][3]- The sentence might beg the question "until when Lyfing was abbot" and the reader might expect an answer to that question. The answer can be found in the two citations you give.
He became Bishop of Wells in ...- The reader might profit from a link on "Bishop of Wells" to Bishop of Bath and Wells
Lyfing was unable to go to Rome for his pallium ...- This sentence might be a bit long. The following pieces might be turned into sentences or clauses (1) The see of Canterbury is a metropolitan see whose newly appointed holder should obtain (buy!) a pallium from the pope in Rome (2) Lyfing could not consecrate new bishops without the pallium (3) As he could not go to Rome, Lyfing delegated consecrations of bishops to his colleage of York, who had a pallium. (is this offensive or simply helpful?)
By 1018, however, he was acting as archbishop, having returned to England from Rome ....- Should the reader deduce that Lyfing had by then obtained his pallium?
... who became king in 1016.[9]- Would it be possible to rearrange the text so that 1016 is mentioned before 1018 to respect chronological order?
The Lanalet Pontifical, a 11th-century pontifical in ...- Should it not be an 11th-century as "11th" starts with a vowel when spoken (eleven)?
The Lanalet Pontifical, a 11th-century pontifical in manuscript produced in England ...- The repetition of "pontifical" might be avoided by linking to liturgical book instead of pontifical.
He was buried in Canterbury Cathedral,[1] and after his death he was ...- Perhaps better "his remains were"?
—With many thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 20:46, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
... the symbol of archiepiscpal authority ...- Taken out of context, the cited apposition might be misunderstood as meaning that all archbishops have palliums, whereas in reality only metropolitan ones do. The article Archbishop states that most archbishops are metropolitan but cites two exceptions: the Archdiocese of Avignon, which lost its metropolitan status in 2002, and the Archdiocese of Trnava, which lost it in 2008. IMHO it might be better to say "metropolitan" than "archiepiscopal" authority.
The word "gallery" (below) might be misleading and "apse" might be better. I apologise for the length of the explanation below, which might be nothing new to you.
... the gallery of the north transept ...- This is word-by-word how Robinson (1918) page 59 ( https://archive.org/details/saxonbishopsofwe00robi/page/59/) describes the location to where Lyfing's remains were first moved. The north transept never had a "gallery" but an apse. Willis (1845), p 39 ( https://archive.org/details/architecturalhis00will_1/page/39/) explains that Gervase in his Tractatus de Combustione et Reparatione Cantuariensis Ecclesiae used "porticus" (arcade) to mean an apse. Lyfing's remains were moved to an apse attached to the north transept on the eastern side. When Lanfranc's new quire was built, Lyfing's remains were moved to the northern apse of the northern transept on the new quire. This apse contains an altar to St Martin as Willis's map shows (page 38).
—With many thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 18:50, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
—Dear Ealdgyth. Thanks for all your comments. I learned a lot from you. The more I learn about GA, the more I see that there is hardly anything else than English spelling and grammar corrections that can be demanded. Being 2nd-language this is not my strong point. Even if "gallery" (see above) is untrue, as long as a reliable source says so, it passes GA. The correction you graciously conceded on the bolding is not required for GA as GA:BOLD is beyond the criteria. Of course your article passes. I must think better about the way how I do these reviews to make sure I comply the WP:CIVILITY and GP:GANOT. I do reviews because Gog the Mild asked me 12 reviews as quid-pro-quo for the A-class review Donough MacCarty, 1st Earl of Clancarty. Also, I was invited to the June 2022 Backlog Drive by Buidhe. I know well I am not really up-to-scratch. Thanks for all your kindness. Johannes Schade ( talk) 11:07, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
![]() | Lyfing (archbishop of Canterbury) has been listed as one of the
Philosophy and religion good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: June 16, 2022. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 07:15, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
No consensus to move. Vegaswikian ( talk) 01:06, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Lyfing (Archbishop of Canterbury) → Lyfing (bishop) — Revert of a mistaken move contrary to WP:BISHOP D B D 20:22, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Johannes Schade ( talk · contribs) 11:17, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
Welcome
Good day
User:Ealdgyth: I will be your reviewer for this, the first GA nomination of the article
Lyfing (archbishop of Canterbury). As you know, I am an apprentice-reviewer, much much less experienced than you. Also consider that I have no prior knowledge of the subject. Please tell me when I go wrong.
I start a first traverse.
... Living, or Ælfstan ...- I was astonished to see that Living is bold whereas Ælfstan is cursive. Is this intended? In the sction "Early career" below Ælfstan is not italicised. You cite ODNB online, which many readers cannot access because of the subscription requirement. Would it not be better to cite the print book available in Internet Archive
*{{Cite encyclopedia|last=Mason |first=Emma |editor1-last=Matthew |editor1-first=Colin |editor1-link=Colin Matthew |editor2-last=Harrison |editor2-first=Brian |editor2-link=Brian Harrison (historian) |date=2004 |title=Lyfing (d. 1020) |encyclopedia=[[Oxford Dictionary of National Biography]] |volume=34 |publisher=[[Oxford University Press]] |location=New York |pages=857–858 |isbn=0-19-861385-7 |url=https://archive.org/details/isbn_0198613849/page/857/ |url-access=registration}}
at https://archive.org/details/isbn_0198613849/page/857/ (offensive remark discussed below struck out with apologies).
|location=
, |url=
and |url-acess=
in one "Cite book" I had added, saying "location" is old-fashioned and URLs are unusual because ISBNs suffice. But I, apprentice-reviewer, here sit struggling to find the sources I need to read to understand the subject better and to do the spot-check that seems to be required. Why should some Wikipedian go out of his way to withhold that URL from me? Sorry, I think I talk too much. With many thanks and best regards,
Johannes Schade (
talk)
21:19, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
—Best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 11:17, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
He was abbot of Chertsey Abbey from about 989.[1][3]- The sentence might beg the question "until when Lyfing was abbot" and the reader might expect an answer to that question. The answer can be found in the two citations you give.
He became Bishop of Wells in ...- The reader might profit from a link on "Bishop of Wells" to Bishop of Bath and Wells
Lyfing was unable to go to Rome for his pallium ...- This sentence might be a bit long. The following pieces might be turned into sentences or clauses (1) The see of Canterbury is a metropolitan see whose newly appointed holder should obtain (buy!) a pallium from the pope in Rome (2) Lyfing could not consecrate new bishops without the pallium (3) As he could not go to Rome, Lyfing delegated consecrations of bishops to his colleage of York, who had a pallium. (is this offensive or simply helpful?)
By 1018, however, he was acting as archbishop, having returned to England from Rome ....- Should the reader deduce that Lyfing had by then obtained his pallium?
... who became king in 1016.[9]- Would it be possible to rearrange the text so that 1016 is mentioned before 1018 to respect chronological order?
The Lanalet Pontifical, a 11th-century pontifical in ...- Should it not be an 11th-century as "11th" starts with a vowel when spoken (eleven)?
The Lanalet Pontifical, a 11th-century pontifical in manuscript produced in England ...- The repetition of "pontifical" might be avoided by linking to liturgical book instead of pontifical.
He was buried in Canterbury Cathedral,[1] and after his death he was ...- Perhaps better "his remains were"?
—With many thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 20:46, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
... the symbol of archiepiscpal authority ...- Taken out of context, the cited apposition might be misunderstood as meaning that all archbishops have palliums, whereas in reality only metropolitan ones do. The article Archbishop states that most archbishops are metropolitan but cites two exceptions: the Archdiocese of Avignon, which lost its metropolitan status in 2002, and the Archdiocese of Trnava, which lost it in 2008. IMHO it might be better to say "metropolitan" than "archiepiscopal" authority.
The word "gallery" (below) might be misleading and "apse" might be better. I apologise for the length of the explanation below, which might be nothing new to you.
... the gallery of the north transept ...- This is word-by-word how Robinson (1918) page 59 ( https://archive.org/details/saxonbishopsofwe00robi/page/59/) describes the location to where Lyfing's remains were first moved. The north transept never had a "gallery" but an apse. Willis (1845), p 39 ( https://archive.org/details/architecturalhis00will_1/page/39/) explains that Gervase in his Tractatus de Combustione et Reparatione Cantuariensis Ecclesiae used "porticus" (arcade) to mean an apse. Lyfing's remains were moved to an apse attached to the north transept on the eastern side. When Lanfranc's new quire was built, Lyfing's remains were moved to the northern apse of the northern transept on the new quire. This apse contains an altar to St Martin as Willis's map shows (page 38).
—With many thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade ( talk) 18:50, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
—Dear Ealdgyth. Thanks for all your comments. I learned a lot from you. The more I learn about GA, the more I see that there is hardly anything else than English spelling and grammar corrections that can be demanded. Being 2nd-language this is not my strong point. Even if "gallery" (see above) is untrue, as long as a reliable source says so, it passes GA. The correction you graciously conceded on the bolding is not required for GA as GA:BOLD is beyond the criteria. Of course your article passes. I must think better about the way how I do these reviews to make sure I comply the WP:CIVILITY and GP:GANOT. I do reviews because Gog the Mild asked me 12 reviews as quid-pro-quo for the A-class review Donough MacCarty, 1st Earl of Clancarty. Also, I was invited to the June 2022 Backlog Drive by Buidhe. I know well I am not really up-to-scratch. Thanks for all your kindness. Johannes Schade ( talk) 11:07, 16 June 2022 (UTC)