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On 25 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Kingdom of Lydia. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
Lydian Culture? Religion? Rony P Q H Taril 00:47, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
does anyone know the Lydian name of Lydia? 85.97.40.61 21:36, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
"==Scientist's Input== Most likely, there was a glacier located here that scientist refer to as one of the most prominent sources of finding evidence of evolution. Unfortunally, researchers have not been able to dig down deep enough to get samples."
--removed from anon user, im assuming this is vandalism. Also noticed that in the List of Kings of Lydia article some of the first ones listed are all greek gods, I wonder how those got into the page Astrokey44 03:06, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
different accounts refer to two people being called Candaules "the Dog-strangler" - Im assuming that the correct one is the last Lydian king of the Heraclid dynasty - Mursylos - that fits in with the dates given on Candaules (735-718), rather than what it says on Gyges of Lydia - that it was Sadyattes (624 BC to 610) as it says at the wiki article there aswell. Astrokey44 03:47, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
For the Lydian name of "Lydia", you mean the Hittish term.
Somebody finally came up with a source supporting the claim that Lydian is descended from Hittite.However, it is from 1986 and by a non-linguist, NOT an expert. I have added to the language article a reference from 2004 by a specialist in Anatolian languages which indicates no special relationship between Lydian and Hittite. Bill 17:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
This "territorial" map even shows Lycia as part of Lydia. A good map would show cities that paid tribute to Croesus, not a modern "colored-in" territory. -- Wetman ( talk) 04:56, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Distinct articles for Carians, focusing on the people, and Caria, focusing on the geographical region, exist since 2005 and blossoming. I suggest we adopt the same approach for Lydians (for the people) and Lydia (region, state and province). Cretanforever ( talk 17 November 2008 (UTC)
I added some material to the "First coinage" section, based on two articles I've written on the subject, one for the Numismatist, the monthly magazine of the American Numismatic Association, the other for the Journal of the Classical and Medieval Numismatic Society, both based on my reading of all the available material in books and journal articles on the subject. This is the second time I've done this here. The first time someone deleted my additions and switched back to the previous text. My additions aren't meant as an intrusion on someone else's turf, just a more complete and accurate rendition of what is known or generally believed about this interesting subject.
Reidgold ( talk) 07:16, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
The only source you provided was Herodotus! Herotodus is unreliable in general and in this specific instance famously ambiguous. Where did you, who whoever wrote this, get your other information? You don't include any "verifiable" or "reliable" sources. What's more, much of the information that is provided in this section is wrong. It looks like it came from a mismash of online coin auction catalogs or some old, outdated primer on coins.
Reidgold ( talk) 05:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
As most of the direct descendants of the Lydians and other ancient anatolian civilizations currently speak Turkish, the name of these civilizations should also be provided in Turkish language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lycianhittite ( talk • contribs) 23:16, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
The Turks didn't enter Anatolia until the 11th century AD, 1,500 years after the fall of the independent Lydia and 1,000 years after the Lydian language became extinct. The only thing Turkey has in common with ancient Lydia is geography, with the Turks ruling the land today that was once ruled by the ancient Lydians. Most of what we know about Lydia comes from the Greeks. The name "Lydia," used in references written in English, comes from the Greeks as well. It doesn't make sense to refer to ancient Lydia by its Turkish name in an encyclopedia article written in English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.235.188.51 ( talk) 00:24, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
That is incorrect. Turkic armies did not settle in a deserted and empty Anatolia. In fact DNA analysis has shown that East Asian subgroup traces in the modern Anatolian population are only between 9-15%, cognate with East Asian (military) influx of a few hundred thousand into the region approximately 30 generations ago. The descendants of Lydians still live in Anatolia and ignoring this suggestion by Lycianhittite is circumspect. 2A02:A445:79E2:1:4FD:C6DE:7196:2F5C ( talk) 01:29, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Appologies to Til Eulenspiegel I thought you were one of the idiots which your user page indicates you actually do well struggling against.
You see Ludim are from Mitzraim not to be confused with Lud son of Shem (in the far east). Best wishes and keep up the good work. 81.103.121.144 ( talk) 21:31, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
I made a small edit there. My grammar is not the best so I am asking if someone could correct my mistakes.
The reason why i wrote that is because the Lydians and Persians made two huge battles called "The battle of Pteria" which was a stalemate and "The battle of Thymbra" which was a persian victory. It should at least be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arsaces ( talk • contribs) 07:44, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Coins are said to have been invented in Lydia[2] around the 7th century BC.
2 ^ "Lydia" in Oxford Dictionary of English. Oxford University Press, 2010. Oxford Reference Online. 14 October 2011.
In fact, the relevant entry on the Oxford Dictionaries website at http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Lydia?q=Lydia states:
Definition of Lydia in English: Lydia
Line breaks: Lydia
Pronunciation: /ˈlɪdɪə
An ancient region of western Asia Minor, south of Mysia and north of Caria. It became a powerful kingdom in the 7th century bc but in 546 its final king, Croesus, was defeated by Cyrus and it was absorbed into the Persian empire. Lydia was probably the first realm to use coined money.
Hence, the cited source asserts merely that Lydia was probably the first realm to use coined money. This is a more modest claim than the claim made in the Wikipedia article's introduction that Coins are said to have been invented in Lydia[2] around the 7th century BC. It's more modest because, first, it does not give a date for the use of coins in Lydia; second, because the claim is not made that coins were invented as such in Lydia, but merely that Lydia was probably the first realm to use coined money. There is a difference between making a claim about the first place and first time that a thing is invented, and making a claim about the first place and first time that a thing is widely used. It's possible for example that coins were invented by someone some time earlier, in a different place to Lydia, initially for a different purpose, and that the invention was adopted by a Lydian merchant or by Lydian merchants or by others who brought the invention to Lydia where it took off and became established. What is to be deprecated here is the sadly all too common device found in Wikipedia of citing a single source that does not in fact properly support the position or point of view adopted by the editor, which, nevertheless, that editor subsequently incorporates into the text of the Wikipedia article. Such devices are misleading and unethical. 124.186.104.184 ( talk) 16:51, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
I see no mention of the famine that struck lydia and the concept of games that was used to survive it, some info about this here http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/23145/did-the-lydians-invent-games — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.22.129.164 ( talk) 05:40, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Lydia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Lydia's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "EB1911":
...ancient Tauris or Tauric Chersonese, called by the Russians by the Tatar name Krym or Crim
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 02:03, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. A detailed review of other topics that compete for the primary topic would be more productive (as well as evidence of majority usage of "Kingdom of Lydia", if such exists), but it appears here that Lydia is the preferred title for now. ( closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 15:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
I really like the aesthetics of the "File:Kingdom_of_Lydia.png" map. However, I worry that it's misleading to include Bronze Age placenames alongside Iron Age ones. Having Lydia and Arzawa on the same map is a little like having the Soviet Union and the Holy Roman Empire on the same map.
I agree that the previous map is suboptimal, and I really am a fan of these aesthetics, so I'd suggest a new map, which could perhaps take inspiration from those in this book. For instance, Roosevelt's Figure 2.4 (on page 25) shows the boundaries of the core Lydian Kingdom as well as its broader territory, relative to modern geography. Botterweg14 (talk) 22:45, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lydia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 25 September 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Kingdom of Lydia. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
Lydian Culture? Religion? Rony P Q H Taril 00:47, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
does anyone know the Lydian name of Lydia? 85.97.40.61 21:36, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
"==Scientist's Input== Most likely, there was a glacier located here that scientist refer to as one of the most prominent sources of finding evidence of evolution. Unfortunally, researchers have not been able to dig down deep enough to get samples."
--removed from anon user, im assuming this is vandalism. Also noticed that in the List of Kings of Lydia article some of the first ones listed are all greek gods, I wonder how those got into the page Astrokey44 03:06, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
different accounts refer to two people being called Candaules "the Dog-strangler" - Im assuming that the correct one is the last Lydian king of the Heraclid dynasty - Mursylos - that fits in with the dates given on Candaules (735-718), rather than what it says on Gyges of Lydia - that it was Sadyattes (624 BC to 610) as it says at the wiki article there aswell. Astrokey44 03:47, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
For the Lydian name of "Lydia", you mean the Hittish term.
Somebody finally came up with a source supporting the claim that Lydian is descended from Hittite.However, it is from 1986 and by a non-linguist, NOT an expert. I have added to the language article a reference from 2004 by a specialist in Anatolian languages which indicates no special relationship between Lydian and Hittite. Bill 17:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
This "territorial" map even shows Lycia as part of Lydia. A good map would show cities that paid tribute to Croesus, not a modern "colored-in" territory. -- Wetman ( talk) 04:56, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Distinct articles for Carians, focusing on the people, and Caria, focusing on the geographical region, exist since 2005 and blossoming. I suggest we adopt the same approach for Lydians (for the people) and Lydia (region, state and province). Cretanforever ( talk 17 November 2008 (UTC)
I added some material to the "First coinage" section, based on two articles I've written on the subject, one for the Numismatist, the monthly magazine of the American Numismatic Association, the other for the Journal of the Classical and Medieval Numismatic Society, both based on my reading of all the available material in books and journal articles on the subject. This is the second time I've done this here. The first time someone deleted my additions and switched back to the previous text. My additions aren't meant as an intrusion on someone else's turf, just a more complete and accurate rendition of what is known or generally believed about this interesting subject.
Reidgold ( talk) 07:16, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
The only source you provided was Herodotus! Herotodus is unreliable in general and in this specific instance famously ambiguous. Where did you, who whoever wrote this, get your other information? You don't include any "verifiable" or "reliable" sources. What's more, much of the information that is provided in this section is wrong. It looks like it came from a mismash of online coin auction catalogs or some old, outdated primer on coins.
Reidgold ( talk) 05:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
As most of the direct descendants of the Lydians and other ancient anatolian civilizations currently speak Turkish, the name of these civilizations should also be provided in Turkish language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lycianhittite ( talk • contribs) 23:16, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
The Turks didn't enter Anatolia until the 11th century AD, 1,500 years after the fall of the independent Lydia and 1,000 years after the Lydian language became extinct. The only thing Turkey has in common with ancient Lydia is geography, with the Turks ruling the land today that was once ruled by the ancient Lydians. Most of what we know about Lydia comes from the Greeks. The name "Lydia," used in references written in English, comes from the Greeks as well. It doesn't make sense to refer to ancient Lydia by its Turkish name in an encyclopedia article written in English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.235.188.51 ( talk) 00:24, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
That is incorrect. Turkic armies did not settle in a deserted and empty Anatolia. In fact DNA analysis has shown that East Asian subgroup traces in the modern Anatolian population are only between 9-15%, cognate with East Asian (military) influx of a few hundred thousand into the region approximately 30 generations ago. The descendants of Lydians still live in Anatolia and ignoring this suggestion by Lycianhittite is circumspect. 2A02:A445:79E2:1:4FD:C6DE:7196:2F5C ( talk) 01:29, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
Appologies to Til Eulenspiegel I thought you were one of the idiots which your user page indicates you actually do well struggling against.
You see Ludim are from Mitzraim not to be confused with Lud son of Shem (in the far east). Best wishes and keep up the good work. 81.103.121.144 ( talk) 21:31, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
I made a small edit there. My grammar is not the best so I am asking if someone could correct my mistakes.
The reason why i wrote that is because the Lydians and Persians made two huge battles called "The battle of Pteria" which was a stalemate and "The battle of Thymbra" which was a persian victory. It should at least be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arsaces ( talk • contribs) 07:44, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Coins are said to have been invented in Lydia[2] around the 7th century BC.
2 ^ "Lydia" in Oxford Dictionary of English. Oxford University Press, 2010. Oxford Reference Online. 14 October 2011.
In fact, the relevant entry on the Oxford Dictionaries website at http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Lydia?q=Lydia states:
Definition of Lydia in English: Lydia
Line breaks: Lydia
Pronunciation: /ˈlɪdɪə
An ancient region of western Asia Minor, south of Mysia and north of Caria. It became a powerful kingdom in the 7th century bc but in 546 its final king, Croesus, was defeated by Cyrus and it was absorbed into the Persian empire. Lydia was probably the first realm to use coined money.
Hence, the cited source asserts merely that Lydia was probably the first realm to use coined money. This is a more modest claim than the claim made in the Wikipedia article's introduction that Coins are said to have been invented in Lydia[2] around the 7th century BC. It's more modest because, first, it does not give a date for the use of coins in Lydia; second, because the claim is not made that coins were invented as such in Lydia, but merely that Lydia was probably the first realm to use coined money. There is a difference between making a claim about the first place and first time that a thing is invented, and making a claim about the first place and first time that a thing is widely used. It's possible for example that coins were invented by someone some time earlier, in a different place to Lydia, initially for a different purpose, and that the invention was adopted by a Lydian merchant or by Lydian merchants or by others who brought the invention to Lydia where it took off and became established. What is to be deprecated here is the sadly all too common device found in Wikipedia of citing a single source that does not in fact properly support the position or point of view adopted by the editor, which, nevertheless, that editor subsequently incorporates into the text of the Wikipedia article. Such devices are misleading and unethical. 124.186.104.184 ( talk) 16:51, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
I see no mention of the famine that struck lydia and the concept of games that was used to survive it, some info about this here http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/23145/did-the-lydians-invent-games — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.22.129.164 ( talk) 05:40, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Lydia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:41, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Lydia's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "EB1911":
...ancient Tauris or Tauric Chersonese, called by the Russians by the Tatar name Krym or Crim
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 02:03, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. A detailed review of other topics that compete for the primary topic would be more productive (as well as evidence of majority usage of "Kingdom of Lydia", if such exists), but it appears here that Lydia is the preferred title for now. ( closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 15:14, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
I really like the aesthetics of the "File:Kingdom_of_Lydia.png" map. However, I worry that it's misleading to include Bronze Age placenames alongside Iron Age ones. Having Lydia and Arzawa on the same map is a little like having the Soviet Union and the Holy Roman Empire on the same map.
I agree that the previous map is suboptimal, and I really am a fan of these aesthetics, so I'd suggest a new map, which could perhaps take inspiration from those in this book. For instance, Roosevelt's Figure 2.4 (on page 25) shows the boundaries of the core Lydian Kingdom as well as its broader territory, relative to modern geography. Botterweg14 (talk) 22:45, 20 October 2023 (UTC)