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Finally!:
Please forgive me for taking so long to write back about placing the LCMS cross logo on our Wikipedia site. We have reviewed this request and the site and have determined that it would be fine at this time to include the logo on the site. We appreciate very much your request to do and appreciate you taking the time to get this done. Please let me know if you have any questions about this or if we can be of assistance in any other way.
Blessings on your day,
Vicki Biggs
Manager, Public Affairs & Media Relations
The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod
(314) 996-1236
That clears that up! -- Dulcimerist 10:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I've created a new page entitled: Biblical infallibility. It links to Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod at one point. The Lutheran church was at the center of this debate in the 70's and 80's and it would be great if any of oyu could help edit this page. Thanks! -- DjSamwise 00:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I will try to figure out a category to place this article under, and hope to have time to look it over and add to it. Perhaps additional people could help with this as well? Thanks! Dulcimerist 19:07, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
This looks like a fun section to work on! I could build a decent Montana District page, as I talk a lot with the district archivist. What type of information are we looking for on the district pages? Thanks! -- Dulcimerist 10:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I think this article should mention the Seminex affair that happened under Preuss, either in the history or internal struggles sections. As it says in the Seminex article, this has had an impact on the main LCMS that still has effects today. âPreceding unsigned comment added by 128.2.211.107 ( talk) 17:58, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I tagged the "internal struggles" page as lacking sources and lacking neutrality. If you click on the Archive 2 above and scroll down to the bottom you'll see that the issue was brought up before, but not addressed. Someone even advocated deleting the section. At the very least, the section needs to be rewritten so that it reflects sourced, verifiable assessments of the controversies, rather than somebody's personal perceptions. Fishal ( talk) 15:30, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous user, User:65.31.202.105, re-instated the material without a tag. I reverted it because I think it needs to be discussed and fixed before it gets put back in. Fishal ( talk) 14:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I just removed this from the article. I believe consensus supports this, since it was suggested before, not objected to, and suggested again last month without objection. Fishal ( talk) 12:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Which specific points in this section are possible POV violations? Fishal ( talk) 19:33, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to make a section and article on the LCMS views on controversial topics. Like abortion, homosexuality, cloning, etc. Miagirljmw14 ( talk) 18:58, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone site the views on the pope. I am taking the section down until someone does, and no, the book title does not count as a citation. I also want the page number of the book on the article if anyone is going to cite that book. -- Miagirljmw14 Miagirljmw~talk 20:18, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Confessional Lutheran church bodies, such as the Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod, the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, the Evangelical Lutheran Synod and the Church of the Lutheran Confession teach that the Roman papacy or office of the pope is the Antichrist, including this article of faith as part of a quia rather than quatenus subscription to the Book of Concord. In 1932 the LCMS adopted A Brief Statement of the Doctrinal Position of the Missouri Synod.
I just got a reply from the LCMS (I E-mailed them). Here is what the E-mail said: "Jessica, thank you for contacting the LCMS Church Information Center.
The LCMS does not teach, nor has it ever taught, that any individual Pope as a person, is to be identified with the Antichrist. We affirm the Lutheran Confessions' identification of the Antichrist with the office of the papacy. For more information on the historic view of LCMS on the Antichrist as summarized by our Synod's Commission on Theology and Church Relations, please review our Frequently Asked Question at [1].
We hope this information is helpful. Again, thank you for contacting us. Please know that the Church Information Center is at your service. We hope you have a blessed day!". It does not say an individual pope (as a person) but the office of the pope. But is this info relevant in the article??? I really do not think so. You never see the views of other churches/synod on the pope. So why should we have it here??? That's just my point. But if the section comes back un-cited I am taking it down. -- Miagirljmw14 Miagirljmw~talk 22:51, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Please include Project tags for Christianity and within that you can add supported by the Lutheran Church. See the example on this page, and add to similar Lutheran pages, and universities. Thanks! Moonraker0022 ( talk) 00:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Given that there isn't a section that compares the LCMS to the ELCA, I think this table has a place in the article. It fills the need to discuss the controversial relationship between the two large American Lutheran church bodies. The table was drawn from a randomized, 35,000 person survey of American adults. Not liking the results is not a reason to remove the table. I'd like to solicit comments from the general public here as to what everyone's opinion is about the LCMS/ELCA table. Thanks.-- Epiphyllumlover ( talk) 15:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
I discovered this comment by 68.127.86.172 on a subpage and decided I should move it here:
My answer: In my own personal experience I have met people with incorrect stereotypes of the LCMS & ELCA and their relation to each other. I thought that this table would help break down the stereotypes--both from ELCA people, some of which criticize the LCMS over topics such as inerrancy or other "doctrinaire" positions, and from LCMS people, some of which think their synod is extraordinarily orthodox and conservative, compared to those liberals over in the ELCA. The purpose of an encyclopedia is to educate, and I created the table to educate people on the de facto similarities and differences between the ELCA & the LCMS.-- Epiphyllumlover ( talk) 21:34, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I think it would be helpful to have a summary of the Seminex controversy in the body of the article under History, not merely in a book list at the end. It's important for understanding the LCMS today. Ruckabumpkus ( talk) 04:31, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Please help develop the Matthew C. Harrison page. I have just started it and already had a speed delete tag put on it. Let's get it out of stub size fast. CTSWyneken
We can see from their official website that the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod still follows a theological anti-Catholicism, mostly directed against the papacy, that seems very far from other Lutheran Churches, who are more open to ecumenical relationships with the Roman Catholic Church. However they take a more moderate view in this declaration: "The LCMS does not teach, nor has it ever taught, that any individual Pope as a person, is to be identified with the Antichrist. The historic view of LCMS on the Antichrist is summarized as follows by the Synod's Theological Commission: The New Testament predicts that the church throughout its history will witness many antichrists (Matt. 24:5,23-24; Mark 13:6,21-22; Luke 21:8; 1 John 2:18,22; 4:3; 2 John 7). All false teachers who teach contrary to Christ's Word are opponents of Christ and, insofar as they do so, are anti-Christ. However, the Scriptures also teach that there is one climactic "Anti-Christ" (Dan. 7:8,11,20-21,24-25; 11:36-45; 2 Thessalonians 2; 1 John 2:18; 4:3; Revelation 17-18). . . Concerning the historical identity of the Antichrist, we affirm the Lutheran Confessions' identification of the Antichrist with the office of the papacy whose official claims continue to correspond to the Scriptural marks listed above. It is important, however, that we observe the distinction which the Lutheran Confessors made between the office of the pope (papacy) and the individual men who fill that office. The latter could be Christians themselves. We do not presume to judge any person's heart. Also, we acknowledge the possibility that the historical form of the Antichrist could change. Of course, in that case another identified by these marks would rise. To the extent that the papacy continues to claim as official dogma the canons and decrees of the Council of Trent which expressly anathematizes, for instance, the doctrine "that justifying faith is nothing else than trust in divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that trust alone by which we are justified," the judgment of the Lutheran confessional writings that the papacy is the Antichrist holds. At the same time, of course, we must recognize the possibility, under God's guidance, that contemporary discussions and statements (e.g., 1983 U.S. Lutheran-Roman Catholic dialogue statement on "Justification by Faith") could lead to a revision of the Roman Catholic position regarding Tridentine dogma. [2]" This and other stances, like their rejection of theistic evolution, that the Catholic Church accepts since the Vatican Council II, seems very far from the ecumenical beliefs of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, who, despite their inclusion of many Roman Catholics in their Calendar of Saints, isn't so openly pro-life like the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod and the Roman Catholic Church. Interestingly, despite their Churches differences, members of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America tend to have similar beliefs on controversial issues, like life issues, and from what I have read many members of the LCMS don't have such strict anti-Catholic views on the papacy and the Roman Catholic Church in general. My question is that if there aren't any current attempts to change their official theological anti-Catholic stance from some of their most important members? I suppose that their current leader, Matthew C. Harrison subscrives to their official doctrine on the matter. With all due respect, if we compare the LCMS view of the Roman Catholic Church with that of the Lutheran Church in Germany it still looks like very archaic and dogmatic. Mistico ( talk) 18:59, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
It is a common misconception to believe that the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod is anti-Catholic because of their official stance on the papacy as being the Antichrist, like I myself thought, but it is incorrect. The LCMS considers the Catholics to be fellow Christians, they believe they also can reach salvation and it is also open to ecumenical dialogue with the Catholic Church. This recent official document focus on the ecumenical relationships of the LCMS with other Christian denominations, including the Catholic Church: [C:\Users\Utilizador\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\Q1WHI9EN\CTCR-TheoDialogue091711[1].pdf]. I was expecting that people with a better knowledge of the LCMS theology had already explained this previously. Mistico ( talk) 18:13, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
I can quote this official document from the LCMS discussing several Christian denominations, in what concerns the Roman Catholic Church [C:\Users\Utilizador\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\R7W1AMSS\Other_Denominations[1].pdf]: "The LCMS recognizes all Trinitarian church bodies as Christian churches (in contrast to "cults," which typically reject the doctrine of the Trinity and thus cannot be recognized as Christian). In fact, a primary "objective" listed in the Synod's Constitution (Article III) is to "work through its official structure toward fellowship with other Christian church bodies"âwhich explicitly assumes that these "other church bodies" are "Christian" in nature. That does not lessen the Synod's concern for the false doctrine taught and confessed by these churches, but it does highlight the Synod's recognition that wherever the "marks of the church" (the Gospel and Sacraments) are presentâeven where "mixed" with errorâthere the Christian church is present. Such a church is a heterodox church, that is, a church that teaches false doctrine./ Of course, personal salvation is not merely a matter of external membership in or association with any church organization or denomination (including the LCMS), but comes through faith in Jesus Christ alone. All those who confess Jesus Christ as Savior are recognized as "Christians" by the Synodâonly God can look into a person's heart and see whether that person really believes. It is possible to have true and sincere faith in Jesus Christ even while having wrong or incomplete beliefs about other doctrinal issues. This explains why former Synod President A.L. Barry called members of the Roman Catholic Church "our fellow Christians" in his statement Toward True Reconciliation, which at the same time identifies and laments the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Church./ The great danger is that believing things contrary to God's Word can obscure and perhaps even completely destroy belief in Jesus Christ as one's Savior. We pray that this will not happen to those who confess Jesus Christ as Savior and yet belong to heterodox church bodies, including fellow Christians in the Roman Catholic Church." Mistico ( talk) 18:23, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
I found this article that explains better the Lutheran Church-Missouri Snod views on creation, inteligent design and evolution: [3]. It is by their former President A. L. Barry. It is very far from the acceptance of theistic evolution done by the Roman Catholic Church since the Vatican Council II and by many Lutheran Churches across the world. A. L. Barry states that: "The Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod believes, teaches and confesses that Adam and Eve were real historic individuals and that the Genesis account of Creation is true and factual, not merely a âmythâor a âstoryâ made up to explain the origin of all things." Recently there was a new development, with the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod University System being allowed to teach and promote evolutionism: [4]. There are also certainly many members of this church that accept theistic evolution. I think these facts could be mentioned in the article, since the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod isn't totally closed to the evolution debate. Mistico ( talk) 18:11, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
It is interesting to notice that the LCMS stance is very similar to the one that the Roman Catholic Church held officially until the Vatican Council II. The question is that the Roman Catholic Church also values a lot the science of Biblical exegesys that explains how the Bible was written. It is very arguable that this science means the "dessacralization" of the Bible, specially the first chapters of the book of Genesis, before Abraham. Biblical exegesys lead the Catholic Church to freely accept that the stories that appear at the beginning of the Bible aren't to be taken literally or can't even be. St. Augustine himself believed that God had created the Universe at once and the six days story was a metaphore, like the fact that God doesn't obviously needs to rest. Geology tells that no similar event to the Flood could ever happened but Noah's story, that is very similar to Gilgamesh myth, seems to have developed to some massive flood that took place in Mesopotamia. Obviously no serious linguist would take the Babel Tower narrative as a simple mythical way to explain the diversity of languages in the world. So, the end of Biblical literalism, meant that the Catholic Church, since the Vatican Council II, was more open to accept the findings of science and that since the Bible isn't to be read as a "direct revelation from God", while it was written, for Christians, by Divine inspiration, the findings of Geology, Anthropology and Biology could be acceptable from a Catholic perspective. That's why the Catholic Church went to consider theistic evolution, who was already being theorized before the Vatican Council II by people like Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, wasn't necesseraly incompatible with Christianity. The last two popes have been supporters of theistic evolution, like I know by my own experience, since I was taught that at school. I think a similar development happened in most Lutheran Churches in Europe. If the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod gave the same value to Biblical exegesys probably also would have to admit that theistic evolution isn't necessarely incompatible with Christianity. The Bible isn't a book of science nor it is a "direct revelation from God" like Muslims believe the Quran to be. Obviously, this is not a forum nor I am even from a Lutheran background to be the most adequate person to enter in a debate over evolution from a Lutheran perspective. Mistico ( talk) 19:20, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
In concern to the interpretation of the Bible, the Roman Catholic Church tends to be more in agreement currently with mainstream Protestant and Lutheran denominations, like in the United States, the ELCA, the LCMC and the NALC, than with confessional Lutherans, like the LCMS and the WELS, while their more literal interpretations tend to agree more, even if not exclusively, with traditionalist Catholics. I do know some of the beliefs endorsed by the LCMS, like creation science but, unfortunately, they enter in the domain of pseudoscience. Mistico ( talk) 21:45, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: / ĈETCH COMMS / 22:40, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
This article is not ready for GA status at this time, and its issues are too great and numerous to address within seven days, so I am quick failing this nomination. The main issues include:
I strongly urge the nominator and other interested parties to review the Good article criteria before re-nominating this article. In addition, a Peer review may be able to help identify other areas in which this article needs improvement.
/ ĈETCH COMMS / 22:49, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
There's a lot of inconsistency as to the type of hyphen/dash and use/nonuse of spaces around it in the name of the Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod, including within this very article. I propose that we use the same format as the title of the main article, i.e., "Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod". This would be especially useful in wikilinks because a redirect would be avoided. One possible exception would be in citations, where it would be better to match the format of the title of the work or webpage.
I think it would also be a good idea to similarly change the titles of other articles such as Districts of the Lutheran Church â Missouri Synod. Indyguy ( talk) 02:30, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
70.92.163.200 added the following book under "History" in the Further Reading section this morning: Paust, Ingerose. Exodus of the Eight Hundred. Austin: Concordia University Press, 2015. ISBN-13 978-1-881848-23-3
I don't think it is a particularly good idea to refer readers to a work of historical fiction, especially when so many other non-fictional histories have already been listed, including several that specifically focus on the Saxon immigration. I just didn't want to erase it without providing a bit of an explanation as to why. Bnng ( talk) 14:12, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
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I would like to propose that the official seal of the LCMS be taken out of this article. The official seal used to be where the blue logo cross is now, and it strikes me that having both the seal and the logo is perhaps redundant. In addition, while the seal's location looks fine on a phone (or at least it does on my phone), it is a little awkwardly placed when viewing the article on a computer browser. If the seal were to be moved somewhere further down in the article, I think that would look okay, but I cannot for the life of me think where it could appropriately be placed. If anyone has a problem with me removing the seal or has an idea where it could better be placed in the article, please let me know. Bnng ( talk) 22:32, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
I would like to see the ELCA/LCMS comparison tables and the LCMS membership statistics table removed from this article. While the tables are interesting, it seems to me that they cause the article to go into unnecessary detail. If the consensus is to keep the ELCA/LCMS comparison tables, I would suggest that they be moved into a new article on the relationship between the LCMS and the ELCA, as has been suggested before. The LCMS membership statistics table I think could be eliminated entirely. Bnng ( talk) 21:42, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
Does anyone know when and why the article with this name was deleted? It must have been deleted recently, but I cannot find anything in the deletion log. Bnng ( talk) 02:22, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
The picture of "Peace Lutheran Church near Baldwin, Wisconsin" is not relevant to this article. For one thing, the building was demolished in 2014, and for another, the congregation does not belong to the LCMS but rather to the ELCA, another Lutheran denomination. â Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.220.3.13 ( talk) 14:25, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
I think it would help the article to explain what "suffrage" is in the context of ordination. -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 15:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
The LCMS is part of the Lutheran World Relief (LWR) - yet the article states "Maintaining its position as a confessional church body emphasizing the importance of full agreement in the teachings of the Bible, the LCMS is not associated with ecumenical organizations..." So this seems to be in direct conflict. The LWR is eccumenical and includes the ELCA, which is a denomination that the LCMS would certainly not consider confessional and in agreement with "the teachings of the bible". There also is no mention in any section that the LCMS is a part of the LWR. Can someone suggest an edit? Mateck ( talk) 19:32, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
I don't know where to file this, but many parts of this article come across very clearly as the work of partisans trying to advance specific, contested viewpoints, mostly about the image of the church--but one line in particular stands out to me as someone who's just high on their own theological supply: "the Gospel, in which the forgiveness of sin is promised for the sake of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ." The more I stare at this string of theological-sounding words, the less sense it makes. The forgiveness of sin is promised . . . _for the sake of_ Jesus' resurrection? What is this supposed to be saying? Does this actually comport with any Christian teaching, Lutheran or otherwise, as currently written? â Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:67A8:230:850:6385:59CE:B1BA ( talk) 04:48, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
During the politics discussion, there is a reference to "the primarily Calvinist presuppositions about the totalizing rule of God that informs much, if not most, of U.S. evangelical understanding of politics and Christianity." This is an insanely sweeping claim about social/political history and there's not so much as one citation. I can't tell if it was written by a pro-Calvinist who wants to claim credit for US evangelical political activity or someone who's very anti-both and looks down on all of it, but I can't see the justification for an assertion this huge that is unsourced, not to mention tangential at best. Is it OK to ax it? â Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:67A8:230:80EB:FC11:B42:995E ( talk) 00:09, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
Year | Location | Venue | Theme | Bible verse |
---|---|---|---|---|
1980 | Fort Collins, CO | Rejoice in His Presence | ||
1983 | San Antonio, TX | Amigos de Cristo | ||
1986 | Washington, DC | On Wings Like Eagles | ||
1989 | Denver, CO | Blessed in the Journey | ||
1992 | New Orleans, LA | Time for Joy | ||
1995 | San Antonio, TX | River of Light | ||
1998 | Atlanta, GA | Called to Be | ||
2001 | New Orleans, LA | Higher Ground | ||
2004 | Orlando, FL | Orange County Convention Center | Beyond Imagination | Ephesians 3:20-21 |
2007 | Orlando, FL | Orange County Convention Center | Chosen | 1 Peter 2:9 |
2010 | New Orleans, LA | Ernest N. Morial Convention Center and the Louisiana Superdome | We Believe | John 20:31 |
2013 | San Antonio, TX | Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center and the Alamodome | Live Love(d) | 1 John 4:9 |
2016 | New Orleans, LA | Ernest N. Morial Convention Center and the Mercedes-Benz Superdome | In Christ Alone | Philippians 4:4â7 |
2019 | Minneapolis, MN | Minneapolis Convention Center and U.S. Bank Stadium | Real. Present. God. | Psalm 46 |
2022 | Houston, TX | George R. Brown Convention Center and Minute Maid Park | In All Things | Colossians 1:15-20 |
2025 | New Orleans, LA | TBA | TBA | TBA |
â Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.116.189.148 ( talk) 22:58, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
https://reporter.lcms.org/2023/president-harrison-denounces-disturbing-ideologies/ soibangla ( talk) 01:01, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
![]() | It was proposed in this section that
Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod be
renamed and moved to
Lutheran Church â Missouri Synod.
result: Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod â Lutheran Church â Missouri Synod â or Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod. The current use of an unspaced en dash in the title seems to be sending the wrong message here. It appears to be used in the sense of MOS:ENBETWEEN, i.e. it indicates an association or relationship between the "Lutheran Church" and the "Missouri Synod" as distinct separate entities. That, of course, is not the correct indication. What should be indicated is that the Missouri Synod is a part of the Lutheran Church. So there should be spaces around the en dash, like what would be used for the volume title of a multi-volume publication or the title of a work in a series (e.g. Star Wars: Episode I â The Phantom Menace or Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows â Part 1). Or it should be an em dash. As far as I can tell, the church itself does not use the current Wikipedia article title's punctuation; the church uses an unspaced em dash. An em dash, as used by the church, would convey a more appropriate indication. The lede section (e.g. the opening sentence) and infobox of the Wikipedia article actually follow the church's style rather than using the current article title. However, my impression is that Wikipedia ordinarily uses a spaced en dash in such situations, e.g. as in a MOS:LISTDASH (I don't know of any articles that use an unspaced em dash in their titles the way the church does it). This change should ideally affect various other articles â e.g. Eastern District of the Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod, other topics found in the prior RM discussion at Talk:Eastern District of the Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod#Requested move 26 January 2019, Lutheran ChurchâCanada, and Evangelical Lutheran Church - Peru, but those could involve other issues, so it may be best to try to get an agreement about one article first. Some articles already use the suggested format; see Lutheran Ministerium and Synod â USA and Evangelical Lutheran Church â Synod of France and Belgium. See also the prior discussions at Talk:Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod#Consistent name format of Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod, Talk:Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod/Archive 1#Uncategorized discussion and Talk:Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod/Archive 1#Official Name and Typography. ââ ââ BarrelProof ( talk) 17:32, 25 August 2023 (UTC) â Relisting. Lightoil ( talk) 07:24, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Now that the page has been moved to Lutheran Church â Missouri Synod, the name of the category Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod and its subcategories needs to be changed, as well as the names of the articles for the 35 districts of the synod. Is there an automated process for doing this? It would also be good to change the text in any articles that link to this page and the commons category for consistency. Indyguy ( talk) 15:34, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
The LCMS has a form of episcopal polity which is more independent. Presidents are installed in episcopal manner, along with the role of District President being equivalent of Bishop. Because the role of President is consecrated with valid apostolic succession and being equvalent to Archbishop, it is a factual statement that the LCMS has an episcopal polity. BonifatiusSecuris ( talk) 21:31, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
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Finally!:
Please forgive me for taking so long to write back about placing the LCMS cross logo on our Wikipedia site. We have reviewed this request and the site and have determined that it would be fine at this time to include the logo on the site. We appreciate very much your request to do and appreciate you taking the time to get this done. Please let me know if you have any questions about this or if we can be of assistance in any other way.
Blessings on your day,
Vicki Biggs
Manager, Public Affairs & Media Relations
The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod
(314) 996-1236
That clears that up! -- Dulcimerist 10:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I've created a new page entitled: Biblical infallibility. It links to Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod at one point. The Lutheran church was at the center of this debate in the 70's and 80's and it would be great if any of oyu could help edit this page. Thanks! -- DjSamwise 00:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I will try to figure out a category to place this article under, and hope to have time to look it over and add to it. Perhaps additional people could help with this as well? Thanks! Dulcimerist 19:07, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
This looks like a fun section to work on! I could build a decent Montana District page, as I talk a lot with the district archivist. What type of information are we looking for on the district pages? Thanks! -- Dulcimerist 10:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I think this article should mention the Seminex affair that happened under Preuss, either in the history or internal struggles sections. As it says in the Seminex article, this has had an impact on the main LCMS that still has effects today. âPreceding unsigned comment added by 128.2.211.107 ( talk) 17:58, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I tagged the "internal struggles" page as lacking sources and lacking neutrality. If you click on the Archive 2 above and scroll down to the bottom you'll see that the issue was brought up before, but not addressed. Someone even advocated deleting the section. At the very least, the section needs to be rewritten so that it reflects sourced, verifiable assessments of the controversies, rather than somebody's personal perceptions. Fishal ( talk) 15:30, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous user, User:65.31.202.105, re-instated the material without a tag. I reverted it because I think it needs to be discussed and fixed before it gets put back in. Fishal ( talk) 14:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I just removed this from the article. I believe consensus supports this, since it was suggested before, not objected to, and suggested again last month without objection. Fishal ( talk) 12:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Which specific points in this section are possible POV violations? Fishal ( talk) 19:33, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I would like to make a section and article on the LCMS views on controversial topics. Like abortion, homosexuality, cloning, etc. Miagirljmw14 ( talk) 18:58, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone site the views on the pope. I am taking the section down until someone does, and no, the book title does not count as a citation. I also want the page number of the book on the article if anyone is going to cite that book. -- Miagirljmw14 Miagirljmw~talk 20:18, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Confessional Lutheran church bodies, such as the Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod, the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, the Evangelical Lutheran Synod and the Church of the Lutheran Confession teach that the Roman papacy or office of the pope is the Antichrist, including this article of faith as part of a quia rather than quatenus subscription to the Book of Concord. In 1932 the LCMS adopted A Brief Statement of the Doctrinal Position of the Missouri Synod.
I just got a reply from the LCMS (I E-mailed them). Here is what the E-mail said: "Jessica, thank you for contacting the LCMS Church Information Center.
The LCMS does not teach, nor has it ever taught, that any individual Pope as a person, is to be identified with the Antichrist. We affirm the Lutheran Confessions' identification of the Antichrist with the office of the papacy. For more information on the historic view of LCMS on the Antichrist as summarized by our Synod's Commission on Theology and Church Relations, please review our Frequently Asked Question at [1].
We hope this information is helpful. Again, thank you for contacting us. Please know that the Church Information Center is at your service. We hope you have a blessed day!". It does not say an individual pope (as a person) but the office of the pope. But is this info relevant in the article??? I really do not think so. You never see the views of other churches/synod on the pope. So why should we have it here??? That's just my point. But if the section comes back un-cited I am taking it down. -- Miagirljmw14 Miagirljmw~talk 22:51, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Please include Project tags for Christianity and within that you can add supported by the Lutheran Church. See the example on this page, and add to similar Lutheran pages, and universities. Thanks! Moonraker0022 ( talk) 00:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Given that there isn't a section that compares the LCMS to the ELCA, I think this table has a place in the article. It fills the need to discuss the controversial relationship between the two large American Lutheran church bodies. The table was drawn from a randomized, 35,000 person survey of American adults. Not liking the results is not a reason to remove the table. I'd like to solicit comments from the general public here as to what everyone's opinion is about the LCMS/ELCA table. Thanks.-- Epiphyllumlover ( talk) 15:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
I discovered this comment by 68.127.86.172 on a subpage and decided I should move it here:
My answer: In my own personal experience I have met people with incorrect stereotypes of the LCMS & ELCA and their relation to each other. I thought that this table would help break down the stereotypes--both from ELCA people, some of which criticize the LCMS over topics such as inerrancy or other "doctrinaire" positions, and from LCMS people, some of which think their synod is extraordinarily orthodox and conservative, compared to those liberals over in the ELCA. The purpose of an encyclopedia is to educate, and I created the table to educate people on the de facto similarities and differences between the ELCA & the LCMS.-- Epiphyllumlover ( talk) 21:34, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
I think it would be helpful to have a summary of the Seminex controversy in the body of the article under History, not merely in a book list at the end. It's important for understanding the LCMS today. Ruckabumpkus ( talk) 04:31, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Please help develop the Matthew C. Harrison page. I have just started it and already had a speed delete tag put on it. Let's get it out of stub size fast. CTSWyneken
We can see from their official website that the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod still follows a theological anti-Catholicism, mostly directed against the papacy, that seems very far from other Lutheran Churches, who are more open to ecumenical relationships with the Roman Catholic Church. However they take a more moderate view in this declaration: "The LCMS does not teach, nor has it ever taught, that any individual Pope as a person, is to be identified with the Antichrist. The historic view of LCMS on the Antichrist is summarized as follows by the Synod's Theological Commission: The New Testament predicts that the church throughout its history will witness many antichrists (Matt. 24:5,23-24; Mark 13:6,21-22; Luke 21:8; 1 John 2:18,22; 4:3; 2 John 7). All false teachers who teach contrary to Christ's Word are opponents of Christ and, insofar as they do so, are anti-Christ. However, the Scriptures also teach that there is one climactic "Anti-Christ" (Dan. 7:8,11,20-21,24-25; 11:36-45; 2 Thessalonians 2; 1 John 2:18; 4:3; Revelation 17-18). . . Concerning the historical identity of the Antichrist, we affirm the Lutheran Confessions' identification of the Antichrist with the office of the papacy whose official claims continue to correspond to the Scriptural marks listed above. It is important, however, that we observe the distinction which the Lutheran Confessors made between the office of the pope (papacy) and the individual men who fill that office. The latter could be Christians themselves. We do not presume to judge any person's heart. Also, we acknowledge the possibility that the historical form of the Antichrist could change. Of course, in that case another identified by these marks would rise. To the extent that the papacy continues to claim as official dogma the canons and decrees of the Council of Trent which expressly anathematizes, for instance, the doctrine "that justifying faith is nothing else than trust in divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that trust alone by which we are justified," the judgment of the Lutheran confessional writings that the papacy is the Antichrist holds. At the same time, of course, we must recognize the possibility, under God's guidance, that contemporary discussions and statements (e.g., 1983 U.S. Lutheran-Roman Catholic dialogue statement on "Justification by Faith") could lead to a revision of the Roman Catholic position regarding Tridentine dogma. [2]" This and other stances, like their rejection of theistic evolution, that the Catholic Church accepts since the Vatican Council II, seems very far from the ecumenical beliefs of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, who, despite their inclusion of many Roman Catholics in their Calendar of Saints, isn't so openly pro-life like the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod and the Roman Catholic Church. Interestingly, despite their Churches differences, members of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America tend to have similar beliefs on controversial issues, like life issues, and from what I have read many members of the LCMS don't have such strict anti-Catholic views on the papacy and the Roman Catholic Church in general. My question is that if there aren't any current attempts to change their official theological anti-Catholic stance from some of their most important members? I suppose that their current leader, Matthew C. Harrison subscrives to their official doctrine on the matter. With all due respect, if we compare the LCMS view of the Roman Catholic Church with that of the Lutheran Church in Germany it still looks like very archaic and dogmatic. Mistico ( talk) 18:59, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
It is a common misconception to believe that the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod is anti-Catholic because of their official stance on the papacy as being the Antichrist, like I myself thought, but it is incorrect. The LCMS considers the Catholics to be fellow Christians, they believe they also can reach salvation and it is also open to ecumenical dialogue with the Catholic Church. This recent official document focus on the ecumenical relationships of the LCMS with other Christian denominations, including the Catholic Church: [C:\Users\Utilizador\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\Q1WHI9EN\CTCR-TheoDialogue091711[1].pdf]. I was expecting that people with a better knowledge of the LCMS theology had already explained this previously. Mistico ( talk) 18:13, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
I can quote this official document from the LCMS discussing several Christian denominations, in what concerns the Roman Catholic Church [C:\Users\Utilizador\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\R7W1AMSS\Other_Denominations[1].pdf]: "The LCMS recognizes all Trinitarian church bodies as Christian churches (in contrast to "cults," which typically reject the doctrine of the Trinity and thus cannot be recognized as Christian). In fact, a primary "objective" listed in the Synod's Constitution (Article III) is to "work through its official structure toward fellowship with other Christian church bodies"âwhich explicitly assumes that these "other church bodies" are "Christian" in nature. That does not lessen the Synod's concern for the false doctrine taught and confessed by these churches, but it does highlight the Synod's recognition that wherever the "marks of the church" (the Gospel and Sacraments) are presentâeven where "mixed" with errorâthere the Christian church is present. Such a church is a heterodox church, that is, a church that teaches false doctrine./ Of course, personal salvation is not merely a matter of external membership in or association with any church organization or denomination (including the LCMS), but comes through faith in Jesus Christ alone. All those who confess Jesus Christ as Savior are recognized as "Christians" by the Synodâonly God can look into a person's heart and see whether that person really believes. It is possible to have true and sincere faith in Jesus Christ even while having wrong or incomplete beliefs about other doctrinal issues. This explains why former Synod President A.L. Barry called members of the Roman Catholic Church "our fellow Christians" in his statement Toward True Reconciliation, which at the same time identifies and laments the false teachings of the Roman Catholic Church./ The great danger is that believing things contrary to God's Word can obscure and perhaps even completely destroy belief in Jesus Christ as one's Savior. We pray that this will not happen to those who confess Jesus Christ as Savior and yet belong to heterodox church bodies, including fellow Christians in the Roman Catholic Church." Mistico ( talk) 18:23, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
I found this article that explains better the Lutheran Church-Missouri Snod views on creation, inteligent design and evolution: [3]. It is by their former President A. L. Barry. It is very far from the acceptance of theistic evolution done by the Roman Catholic Church since the Vatican Council II and by many Lutheran Churches across the world. A. L. Barry states that: "The Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod believes, teaches and confesses that Adam and Eve were real historic individuals and that the Genesis account of Creation is true and factual, not merely a âmythâor a âstoryâ made up to explain the origin of all things." Recently there was a new development, with the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod University System being allowed to teach and promote evolutionism: [4]. There are also certainly many members of this church that accept theistic evolution. I think these facts could be mentioned in the article, since the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod isn't totally closed to the evolution debate. Mistico ( talk) 18:11, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
It is interesting to notice that the LCMS stance is very similar to the one that the Roman Catholic Church held officially until the Vatican Council II. The question is that the Roman Catholic Church also values a lot the science of Biblical exegesys that explains how the Bible was written. It is very arguable that this science means the "dessacralization" of the Bible, specially the first chapters of the book of Genesis, before Abraham. Biblical exegesys lead the Catholic Church to freely accept that the stories that appear at the beginning of the Bible aren't to be taken literally or can't even be. St. Augustine himself believed that God had created the Universe at once and the six days story was a metaphore, like the fact that God doesn't obviously needs to rest. Geology tells that no similar event to the Flood could ever happened but Noah's story, that is very similar to Gilgamesh myth, seems to have developed to some massive flood that took place in Mesopotamia. Obviously no serious linguist would take the Babel Tower narrative as a simple mythical way to explain the diversity of languages in the world. So, the end of Biblical literalism, meant that the Catholic Church, since the Vatican Council II, was more open to accept the findings of science and that since the Bible isn't to be read as a "direct revelation from God", while it was written, for Christians, by Divine inspiration, the findings of Geology, Anthropology and Biology could be acceptable from a Catholic perspective. That's why the Catholic Church went to consider theistic evolution, who was already being theorized before the Vatican Council II by people like Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, wasn't necesseraly incompatible with Christianity. The last two popes have been supporters of theistic evolution, like I know by my own experience, since I was taught that at school. I think a similar development happened in most Lutheran Churches in Europe. If the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod gave the same value to Biblical exegesys probably also would have to admit that theistic evolution isn't necessarely incompatible with Christianity. The Bible isn't a book of science nor it is a "direct revelation from God" like Muslims believe the Quran to be. Obviously, this is not a forum nor I am even from a Lutheran background to be the most adequate person to enter in a debate over evolution from a Lutheran perspective. Mistico ( talk) 19:20, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
In concern to the interpretation of the Bible, the Roman Catholic Church tends to be more in agreement currently with mainstream Protestant and Lutheran denominations, like in the United States, the ELCA, the LCMC and the NALC, than with confessional Lutherans, like the LCMS and the WELS, while their more literal interpretations tend to agree more, even if not exclusively, with traditionalist Catholics. I do know some of the beliefs endorsed by the LCMS, like creation science but, unfortunately, they enter in the domain of pseudoscience. Mistico ( talk) 21:45, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: / ĈETCH COMMS / 22:40, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
This article is not ready for GA status at this time, and its issues are too great and numerous to address within seven days, so I am quick failing this nomination. The main issues include:
I strongly urge the nominator and other interested parties to review the Good article criteria before re-nominating this article. In addition, a Peer review may be able to help identify other areas in which this article needs improvement.
/ ĈETCH COMMS / 22:49, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
There's a lot of inconsistency as to the type of hyphen/dash and use/nonuse of spaces around it in the name of the Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod, including within this very article. I propose that we use the same format as the title of the main article, i.e., "Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod". This would be especially useful in wikilinks because a redirect would be avoided. One possible exception would be in citations, where it would be better to match the format of the title of the work or webpage.
I think it would also be a good idea to similarly change the titles of other articles such as Districts of the Lutheran Church â Missouri Synod. Indyguy ( talk) 02:30, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
70.92.163.200 added the following book under "History" in the Further Reading section this morning: Paust, Ingerose. Exodus of the Eight Hundred. Austin: Concordia University Press, 2015. ISBN-13 978-1-881848-23-3
I don't think it is a particularly good idea to refer readers to a work of historical fiction, especially when so many other non-fictional histories have already been listed, including several that specifically focus on the Saxon immigration. I just didn't want to erase it without providing a bit of an explanation as to why. Bnng ( talk) 14:12, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
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I would like to propose that the official seal of the LCMS be taken out of this article. The official seal used to be where the blue logo cross is now, and it strikes me that having both the seal and the logo is perhaps redundant. In addition, while the seal's location looks fine on a phone (or at least it does on my phone), it is a little awkwardly placed when viewing the article on a computer browser. If the seal were to be moved somewhere further down in the article, I think that would look okay, but I cannot for the life of me think where it could appropriately be placed. If anyone has a problem with me removing the seal or has an idea where it could better be placed in the article, please let me know. Bnng ( talk) 22:32, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
I would like to see the ELCA/LCMS comparison tables and the LCMS membership statistics table removed from this article. While the tables are interesting, it seems to me that they cause the article to go into unnecessary detail. If the consensus is to keep the ELCA/LCMS comparison tables, I would suggest that they be moved into a new article on the relationship between the LCMS and the ELCA, as has been suggested before. The LCMS membership statistics table I think could be eliminated entirely. Bnng ( talk) 21:42, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
Does anyone know when and why the article with this name was deleted? It must have been deleted recently, but I cannot find anything in the deletion log. Bnng ( talk) 02:22, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
The picture of "Peace Lutheran Church near Baldwin, Wisconsin" is not relevant to this article. For one thing, the building was demolished in 2014, and for another, the congregation does not belong to the LCMS but rather to the ELCA, another Lutheran denomination. â Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.220.3.13 ( talk) 14:25, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
I think it would help the article to explain what "suffrage" is in the context of ordination. -- Richardson mcphillips ( talk) 15:53, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
The LCMS is part of the Lutheran World Relief (LWR) - yet the article states "Maintaining its position as a confessional church body emphasizing the importance of full agreement in the teachings of the Bible, the LCMS is not associated with ecumenical organizations..." So this seems to be in direct conflict. The LWR is eccumenical and includes the ELCA, which is a denomination that the LCMS would certainly not consider confessional and in agreement with "the teachings of the bible". There also is no mention in any section that the LCMS is a part of the LWR. Can someone suggest an edit? Mateck ( talk) 19:32, 13 July 2020 (UTC)
I don't know where to file this, but many parts of this article come across very clearly as the work of partisans trying to advance specific, contested viewpoints, mostly about the image of the church--but one line in particular stands out to me as someone who's just high on their own theological supply: "the Gospel, in which the forgiveness of sin is promised for the sake of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ." The more I stare at this string of theological-sounding words, the less sense it makes. The forgiveness of sin is promised . . . _for the sake of_ Jesus' resurrection? What is this supposed to be saying? Does this actually comport with any Christian teaching, Lutheran or otherwise, as currently written? â Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:67A8:230:850:6385:59CE:B1BA ( talk) 04:48, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
During the politics discussion, there is a reference to "the primarily Calvinist presuppositions about the totalizing rule of God that informs much, if not most, of U.S. evangelical understanding of politics and Christianity." This is an insanely sweeping claim about social/political history and there's not so much as one citation. I can't tell if it was written by a pro-Calvinist who wants to claim credit for US evangelical political activity or someone who's very anti-both and looks down on all of it, but I can't see the justification for an assertion this huge that is unsourced, not to mention tangential at best. Is it OK to ax it? â Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:67A8:230:80EB:FC11:B42:995E ( talk) 00:09, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
Year | Location | Venue | Theme | Bible verse |
---|---|---|---|---|
1980 | Fort Collins, CO | Rejoice in His Presence | ||
1983 | San Antonio, TX | Amigos de Cristo | ||
1986 | Washington, DC | On Wings Like Eagles | ||
1989 | Denver, CO | Blessed in the Journey | ||
1992 | New Orleans, LA | Time for Joy | ||
1995 | San Antonio, TX | River of Light | ||
1998 | Atlanta, GA | Called to Be | ||
2001 | New Orleans, LA | Higher Ground | ||
2004 | Orlando, FL | Orange County Convention Center | Beyond Imagination | Ephesians 3:20-21 |
2007 | Orlando, FL | Orange County Convention Center | Chosen | 1 Peter 2:9 |
2010 | New Orleans, LA | Ernest N. Morial Convention Center and the Louisiana Superdome | We Believe | John 20:31 |
2013 | San Antonio, TX | Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center and the Alamodome | Live Love(d) | 1 John 4:9 |
2016 | New Orleans, LA | Ernest N. Morial Convention Center and the Mercedes-Benz Superdome | In Christ Alone | Philippians 4:4â7 |
2019 | Minneapolis, MN | Minneapolis Convention Center and U.S. Bank Stadium | Real. Present. God. | Psalm 46 |
2022 | Houston, TX | George R. Brown Convention Center and Minute Maid Park | In All Things | Colossians 1:15-20 |
2025 | New Orleans, LA | TBA | TBA | TBA |
â Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.116.189.148 ( talk) 22:58, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
https://reporter.lcms.org/2023/president-harrison-denounces-disturbing-ideologies/ soibangla ( talk) 01:01, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
![]() | It was proposed in this section that
Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod be
renamed and moved to
Lutheran Church â Missouri Synod.
result: Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod â Lutheran Church â Missouri Synod â or Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod. The current use of an unspaced en dash in the title seems to be sending the wrong message here. It appears to be used in the sense of MOS:ENBETWEEN, i.e. it indicates an association or relationship between the "Lutheran Church" and the "Missouri Synod" as distinct separate entities. That, of course, is not the correct indication. What should be indicated is that the Missouri Synod is a part of the Lutheran Church. So there should be spaces around the en dash, like what would be used for the volume title of a multi-volume publication or the title of a work in a series (e.g. Star Wars: Episode I â The Phantom Menace or Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows â Part 1). Or it should be an em dash. As far as I can tell, the church itself does not use the current Wikipedia article title's punctuation; the church uses an unspaced em dash. An em dash, as used by the church, would convey a more appropriate indication. The lede section (e.g. the opening sentence) and infobox of the Wikipedia article actually follow the church's style rather than using the current article title. However, my impression is that Wikipedia ordinarily uses a spaced en dash in such situations, e.g. as in a MOS:LISTDASH (I don't know of any articles that use an unspaced em dash in their titles the way the church does it). This change should ideally affect various other articles â e.g. Eastern District of the Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod, other topics found in the prior RM discussion at Talk:Eastern District of the Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod#Requested move 26 January 2019, Lutheran ChurchâCanada, and Evangelical Lutheran Church - Peru, but those could involve other issues, so it may be best to try to get an agreement about one article first. Some articles already use the suggested format; see Lutheran Ministerium and Synod â USA and Evangelical Lutheran Church â Synod of France and Belgium. See also the prior discussions at Talk:Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod#Consistent name format of Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod, Talk:Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod/Archive 1#Uncategorized discussion and Talk:Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod/Archive 1#Official Name and Typography. ââ ââ BarrelProof ( talk) 17:32, 25 August 2023 (UTC) â Relisting. Lightoil ( talk) 07:24, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
Now that the page has been moved to Lutheran Church â Missouri Synod, the name of the category Lutheran ChurchâMissouri Synod and its subcategories needs to be changed, as well as the names of the articles for the 35 districts of the synod. Is there an automated process for doing this? It would also be good to change the text in any articles that link to this page and the commons category for consistency. Indyguy ( talk) 15:34, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
The LCMS has a form of episcopal polity which is more independent. Presidents are installed in episcopal manner, along with the role of District President being equivalent of Bishop. Because the role of President is consecrated with valid apostolic succession and being equvalent to Archbishop, it is a factual statement that the LCMS has an episcopal polity. BonifatiusSecuris ( talk) 21:31, 16 October 2023 (UTC)