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The "received a Bachelor of Arts in Sociology and History in 1967, and went on to study Social Administration at the University of York where she was awarded a Master of Philosophy" makes these pretty conventional degrees sound like Nobel prizes.
Which part of this transcript would best summarise Louise Ellman's appearance and voiced opinion on Newsnight on the 14th February 2011?
Paxman: "It is a terribly depressing situation isn't it?"
Ellman (41:10-41:44): "It is very depressing and certainly the children are the victims of a dreadful war, but I don't think it's possible to understand what's happening here, very tragic as it is, without understanding too the problem is Hamas, who use these children as human shields, who give the children explosives or sometimes force them to have explosive belts and send them to blow up Israeli civilians, and Hamas do have terrible responsibility for this very,very dreadful situation, and that really does have to be faced up to"
Paxman: "And as far as the siege that the Israelis are imposing upon this community?"
Ellman (41:50-42:18): "Well, the siege is about trying to prevent weapons going from Gaza to blow Israeli children up. All of this is a dreadul situation. Situations like this don't exist on the West Bank where Hamas are not ruling the situation and where the Palestinian Authority are in charge there it is very different. And while we stress the human tragedy - that's what must affect all of us - that can't be separated from the ... (unfinished sentence)"
Ellman (43:21-43:52): "There is a dreadful cycle there, but the responsiblity lies with Hamas - it is Hamas who arms those children, who teaches them hate, who uses them as human shields and we've concentrated on the tragedy of the children who are in Gaza - and that is truly dreadful - but there are equivalent tragedies of the children of Israel who have been affected by suicide bombers, some of who have come from Gaza. It is a tragedy for everyone and it will only be resolved when Hamas stop their ... (trails off)"
Paxman "It just seems so short-sighted to say that it is all Hamas's fault, it is all the Israeli's fault and to not be doing something constructive along the lines of Michael and break down the misunderstanding and recognise there are human beings involved"
Ellman (44:00-44:15): "Well ... It is about human beings and if those human beings can meet then perhaps they can get some understanding, but they won't get it ..."
Paxman "... Barrier ..."
Ellman (44:16-44:38): "Well, how can they meet and how can they meet without a barrier when Hamas are sending those very children with their explosive belts across to kill Israeli children and Israeli civilians. All of that has to stop, but no one is entirely innocent here."
Morpurgo "I didn't meet any children with explosive belts on"
Ellman (44:41-45:05): "Well, that has happened and that's why people have been blown up. It would have been nice to have seen in Michael's really very important piece there children being treated in Ashkelon being given good medical treatment there and that is a good side of human nature too ..."
Paxman "You also saw very malnourished children as a consequence of the Israeli siege"
Ellman (45:11-45:30) "As a consequence of what Hamas have done, refusing to negotiate, refusing to recognise Israel, but none of that makes it acceptable to see human beings suffering there, but the way out of that suffering is for human beings to meet, but as you heard those children speak, they're conscious of a political situation too ..." [1]
References
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I am a bit confused about this edit & wondered if anyone could clarify? Diff It appears that the reference to Ellmans comments regarding her defense of the assassination of Sheikh Yasin were removed, as they were lacking a "third party source". The source presented was a House of Commons transcript from Hansard. However, contained within the same section is a direct quote and its single source is They Work For You. The quote that was removed is also available in They Work For You. My question is, therefore, why remove a quote on the basis of a lack of sourcing, but allow the other to remain? The sources are either sufficient for inclusion or they're not. It almost looks like the removal of information that could be construed as negative. -- RebeccaSaid ( talk) 09:51, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
I'm sorry,
user:Jontel, but I have been concerned by a great number of your edits on this page. You have removed from this article (over the last 24 hours): Ellman's stated reasons for leaving the party;
[1] the timing of the controversial no confidence motion (which was blatantly newsworthy),
[2] downplaying the timing of the proposal (without any source to back this claim up) in edit summaries;
[3] Ellman's response to the incident on completely frivolous grounds;
[4] and any mention of antisemitism from the lead of the article.Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page). Additionally, you have argued that an MP that left Labour citing antisemitism (
Ivan Lewis) doesn't count, because he gave other reasons;
[5] purposefully misinterpreting a CLP response;
[6] conflated an official response with an unofficial one;
[7] misled readers to believe that other motions of no confidence had already been arranged before the one scheduled for Yom Kippur.
[8]
This is not subtle.
I would be interested to hear whether other editors share my assessment, or think I have the complete wrong end of the stick here. Domeditrix ( talk) 08:31, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
References
The article relies heavily on citations to Jewish Chronicle articles by Lee Harpin, one of which was in a set by him recently heavily criticised by the Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO). [1] Earlier, Harpin was one of the journalists arrested over the phone hacking scandal. [2] [3] [4] Perhaps that mitigates against his articles being used as a reliable source? ← ZScarpia 12:55, 15 December 2019 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The "received a Bachelor of Arts in Sociology and History in 1967, and went on to study Social Administration at the University of York where she was awarded a Master of Philosophy" makes these pretty conventional degrees sound like Nobel prizes.
Which part of this transcript would best summarise Louise Ellman's appearance and voiced opinion on Newsnight on the 14th February 2011?
Paxman: "It is a terribly depressing situation isn't it?"
Ellman (41:10-41:44): "It is very depressing and certainly the children are the victims of a dreadful war, but I don't think it's possible to understand what's happening here, very tragic as it is, without understanding too the problem is Hamas, who use these children as human shields, who give the children explosives or sometimes force them to have explosive belts and send them to blow up Israeli civilians, and Hamas do have terrible responsibility for this very,very dreadful situation, and that really does have to be faced up to"
Paxman: "And as far as the siege that the Israelis are imposing upon this community?"
Ellman (41:50-42:18): "Well, the siege is about trying to prevent weapons going from Gaza to blow Israeli children up. All of this is a dreadul situation. Situations like this don't exist on the West Bank where Hamas are not ruling the situation and where the Palestinian Authority are in charge there it is very different. And while we stress the human tragedy - that's what must affect all of us - that can't be separated from the ... (unfinished sentence)"
Ellman (43:21-43:52): "There is a dreadful cycle there, but the responsiblity lies with Hamas - it is Hamas who arms those children, who teaches them hate, who uses them as human shields and we've concentrated on the tragedy of the children who are in Gaza - and that is truly dreadful - but there are equivalent tragedies of the children of Israel who have been affected by suicide bombers, some of who have come from Gaza. It is a tragedy for everyone and it will only be resolved when Hamas stop their ... (trails off)"
Paxman "It just seems so short-sighted to say that it is all Hamas's fault, it is all the Israeli's fault and to not be doing something constructive along the lines of Michael and break down the misunderstanding and recognise there are human beings involved"
Ellman (44:00-44:15): "Well ... It is about human beings and if those human beings can meet then perhaps they can get some understanding, but they won't get it ..."
Paxman "... Barrier ..."
Ellman (44:16-44:38): "Well, how can they meet and how can they meet without a barrier when Hamas are sending those very children with their explosive belts across to kill Israeli children and Israeli civilians. All of that has to stop, but no one is entirely innocent here."
Morpurgo "I didn't meet any children with explosive belts on"
Ellman (44:41-45:05): "Well, that has happened and that's why people have been blown up. It would have been nice to have seen in Michael's really very important piece there children being treated in Ashkelon being given good medical treatment there and that is a good side of human nature too ..."
Paxman "You also saw very malnourished children as a consequence of the Israeli siege"
Ellman (45:11-45:30) "As a consequence of what Hamas have done, refusing to negotiate, refusing to recognise Israel, but none of that makes it acceptable to see human beings suffering there, but the way out of that suffering is for human beings to meet, but as you heard those children speak, they're conscious of a political situation too ..." [1]
References
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Louise Ellman. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:59, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Louise Ellman. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:50, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
I am a bit confused about this edit & wondered if anyone could clarify? Diff It appears that the reference to Ellmans comments regarding her defense of the assassination of Sheikh Yasin were removed, as they were lacking a "third party source". The source presented was a House of Commons transcript from Hansard. However, contained within the same section is a direct quote and its single source is They Work For You. The quote that was removed is also available in They Work For You. My question is, therefore, why remove a quote on the basis of a lack of sourcing, but allow the other to remain? The sources are either sufficient for inclusion or they're not. It almost looks like the removal of information that could be construed as negative. -- RebeccaSaid ( talk) 09:51, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
I'm sorry,
user:Jontel, but I have been concerned by a great number of your edits on this page. You have removed from this article (over the last 24 hours): Ellman's stated reasons for leaving the party;
[1] the timing of the controversial no confidence motion (which was blatantly newsworthy),
[2] downplaying the timing of the proposal (without any source to back this claim up) in edit summaries;
[3] Ellman's response to the incident on completely frivolous grounds;
[4] and any mention of antisemitism from the lead of the article.Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page). Additionally, you have argued that an MP that left Labour citing antisemitism (
Ivan Lewis) doesn't count, because he gave other reasons;
[5] purposefully misinterpreting a CLP response;
[6] conflated an official response with an unofficial one;
[7] misled readers to believe that other motions of no confidence had already been arranged before the one scheduled for Yom Kippur.
[8]
This is not subtle.
I would be interested to hear whether other editors share my assessment, or think I have the complete wrong end of the stick here. Domeditrix ( talk) 08:31, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
References
The article relies heavily on citations to Jewish Chronicle articles by Lee Harpin, one of which was in a set by him recently heavily criticised by the Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO). [1] Earlier, Harpin was one of the journalists arrested over the phone hacking scandal. [2] [3] [4] Perhaps that mitigates against his articles being used as a reliable source? ← ZScarpia 12:55, 15 December 2019 (UTC)