![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
The Canon law (Catholic Church)-related articles generally follow the idiom "WXYZ (Catholic Church)" vs. the idiom "WXYZ in the Catholic Church" found in some Catholicism-related articles. Laicization is primarily a topic within Catholic canon law, so I moved this page due to WP:CONSISTENCY. Canon Law Junkie §§§ Talk 00:48, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Canon law (Catholic Church) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 17:00, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
I think this page should be moved to "Loss Of The Clerical State (Catholic Church)" since that's the term used in canon law (see here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PZ.HTM) "Laicization" is commonaly used, but informal and not correct. Bwwm ( talk) 21:24, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Laicization. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. wbm1058 ( talk) 19:46, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
The page's section entitled "Community Dismissal" has nothing to do with the loss of clerical state. It simply changes the prerequisites that the Religious Order has in dismissing a member, either a "lay brother" or an ordained cleric. Even if the member is dismissed, the Order still has to make the next step in petitioning for the cleric's dismissal from the clerical state - a totally separate process from those mentioned in canons 694, 695, and 729. Non-pupulus-impilium ( talk) 20:03, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Loss of clerical state . It is clear that disambiguation is not strictly necessary, and that the name of the concept is unique for the Catholic Church. Even though the disambiguator may help recognizability, unnecessary disambiguation is generally rejected in principle. (cf. RM at Talk:Brewarrina I'm about to close). No such user ( talk) 08:26, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
Loss of clerical state (Catholic Church) → Loss of clerical state – Disambiguation not needed; there are no other articles with this title. Elizium23 ( talk) 23:18, 2 June 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Natg 19 ( talk) 00:43, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Clerical ordination is irreversible, so no-one, whatever they have done, can be "reduced to the lay state". Massive censure can, of course, be applied to major clerical transgressors, but these can only ever constitute forms of suspension. A priest is a priest for ever, just as a person cannot be un-baptised or un-married (provided the ordination/baptism/marriage was valid). This process is therefore better described in terms of being an extreme form of suspension, fiercer than a divinis, with a near-permanence (though only "near-" because the pope can lift it). Any suggestion that clergy can become lay is to deny a key feature of ordination's permanent effects on the candidate's soul. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:5988:EC00:28E4:5387:15F6:3148 ( talk) 14:52, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
@ Pbritti: you've allowed a dispute and edit-war on Talk:Frank Pavone to spill over to this related page, and you've decided to make a WP:POINT about the definition of "defrocked" by referencing articles which do not directly say what you want them to say. I've placed a maintenance tag on your assertion and you've reverted it out-of-process. Please follow WP:BRD and also WP:ABF such as accusing me of incivility. Elizium23 ( talk) 02:50, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
I propose that Lay communion be merged into this article. They appear to cover the same topic, and the former article is of poor quality. — Moriwen ( talk) 00:53, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
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![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
The Canon law (Catholic Church)-related articles generally follow the idiom "WXYZ (Catholic Church)" vs. the idiom "WXYZ in the Catholic Church" found in some Catholicism-related articles. Laicization is primarily a topic within Catholic canon law, so I moved this page due to WP:CONSISTENCY. Canon Law Junkie §§§ Talk 00:48, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Canon law (Catholic Church) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 17:00, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
I think this page should be moved to "Loss Of The Clerical State (Catholic Church)" since that's the term used in canon law (see here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PZ.HTM) "Laicization" is commonaly used, but informal and not correct. Bwwm ( talk) 21:24, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Laicization. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. wbm1058 ( talk) 19:46, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
The page's section entitled "Community Dismissal" has nothing to do with the loss of clerical state. It simply changes the prerequisites that the Religious Order has in dismissing a member, either a "lay brother" or an ordained cleric. Even if the member is dismissed, the Order still has to make the next step in petitioning for the cleric's dismissal from the clerical state - a totally separate process from those mentioned in canons 694, 695, and 729. Non-pupulus-impilium ( talk) 20:03, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Loss of clerical state . It is clear that disambiguation is not strictly necessary, and that the name of the concept is unique for the Catholic Church. Even though the disambiguator may help recognizability, unnecessary disambiguation is generally rejected in principle. (cf. RM at Talk:Brewarrina I'm about to close). No such user ( talk) 08:26, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
Loss of clerical state (Catholic Church) → Loss of clerical state – Disambiguation not needed; there are no other articles with this title. Elizium23 ( talk) 23:18, 2 June 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Natg 19 ( talk) 00:43, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Clerical ordination is irreversible, so no-one, whatever they have done, can be "reduced to the lay state". Massive censure can, of course, be applied to major clerical transgressors, but these can only ever constitute forms of suspension. A priest is a priest for ever, just as a person cannot be un-baptised or un-married (provided the ordination/baptism/marriage was valid). This process is therefore better described in terms of being an extreme form of suspension, fiercer than a divinis, with a near-permanence (though only "near-" because the pope can lift it). Any suggestion that clergy can become lay is to deny a key feature of ordination's permanent effects on the candidate's soul. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:5988:EC00:28E4:5387:15F6:3148 ( talk) 14:52, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
@ Pbritti: you've allowed a dispute and edit-war on Talk:Frank Pavone to spill over to this related page, and you've decided to make a WP:POINT about the definition of "defrocked" by referencing articles which do not directly say what you want them to say. I've placed a maintenance tag on your assertion and you've reverted it out-of-process. Please follow WP:BRD and also WP:ABF such as accusing me of incivility. Elizium23 ( talk) 02:50, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
I propose that Lay communion be merged into this article. They appear to cover the same topic, and the former article is of poor quality. — Moriwen ( talk) 00:53, 13 June 2023 (UTC)