This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Can't find references to her inventing chalupas for Taco Bell or AirHogs helicopters, are those statements just vandalism? 71.139.177.218 ( talk) 02:28, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I can't find any reference to Travis Stork as Greiner's spouse. In fact, in Crain's and several other places her husband is listed as Dan Greiner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssonwalkar ( talk • contribs) 17:20, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Tag removal request - I request you to please remove the ADVERT maintenance tag at the top of the page as I have edited the copy and have removed the promotional content that made the copy read like an advertisement. The page now has only factual content following WP:CCPOL guidelines. Thank you. 103.57.71.178 ( talk) 09:26, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Please consult assigning editor
{{
request edit}}
template's answer parameter to read from |ans=yes
to |ans=no
. Thank you! It certainly is much better. Thank you for the work.
There are references without basic information, and the references are not using the same format throughout. This makes the article difficult to review and needs to be fixed.
Even with the confusion of the references, there are poor and promotional references being used for material in the lede. That's enough from my perspective to leave the tag in.
The number of WP:SPA editors involved, the amount of content they've added, and the promotional nature of the content strongly suggests WP:COI if not WP:UPE editing.
I've added a few more tags specific to these problems. -- Ronz ( talk) 18:42, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
![]() | The
Wikimedia Foundation's
Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see
WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see
WP:COIRESPONSE.
|
Please remove the tag of close connection as well. 103.57.71.178 ( talk) 13:05, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hey Ronz,
I am requesting you to please remove the tags on this page. All citations have been completed by a previous editor while the unclear citation style has also been taken care of. The article's list sources do show notable and reliable names such as Bustle (magazine), Forbes, Crain's Chicago Business, NY Times, The Philadelphia Inquirer, Business Insider, Entrepreneur.com, New York Post etc. which are enough to establish notability. Also, after the changes as per the talk page history, the article reads factual. I would appreciate if you could look into this, have also left a message on your talk page. I am making this paid request on behalf of Lori Greiner. Thanks.
FamJoshua1 ( talk) 22:02, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi,
Please add the following sentence in the first paragraph of the page - She has invented over 500 products and holds over 120 patents. [1]
Please add the following line in the second paragraph of 'Shark Tank' section - As of May 2019, Greiner’s Shark Tank investments have made more than $870 million in retail sales. [2]
Please add the following line in 'Publications' section - In March 2019, she launched her first magazine Living Inspired, published in partnership with AMG/Parade. [3]
Thanks, appreciate your support!
FamJoshua1 ( talk) 17:02, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
References
{{
cite news}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(
help)
Hi Ronz - Editor assistance page stalker here. I think we disagree about the numerous hatnotes on this article. I cleaned up the article and cleared them, but you put them back. Rather than revert, per common courtesy I'm starting this discussion so you as the tagger can defend them. For example, the citations look fine to me. Almost every statement is sourced. The sources all appear reliable - do you know of any that have been flagged on the reliable sources noticeboard? I see potential COI editing history with the SPA accounts, but nothing recently. The talk pages says that FamJoshua1 may have a conflict of interest, but he (or she?) only filled in the bare refs. Since everything is properly sourced and isn't promotional, the hatnotes may not be necessary. Thanks for you help keeping the encyclopedia in great shape. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 17:50, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
The date of birth commonly see online suggests Mrs. Greiner was born in 1969, but there are conflicting reasons for why this doesn't make sense.
Mrs. Greiner's parents divorced in March of 1969. It's mentioned here. It is commonly said (though I cannot confirm through independent research) that her parents divorced when she was nine years old. It is exceedingly unlikely that her parents would have even been, you know, "her parents" if they officially divorced nine months prior to December 1969 (her stated month and year of birth both here and on many unreputable sites online) and it is impossible for them to have divorced when she was nine years old when the given divorce was nine months prior to her being born at all.
Well, how would I know that the person in the link is her mother, by chance? I suppose I cannot confirm 100%, but circumstantial evidence points to it. Ms. Husman died in November 2008. In Mrs. Greiner's book, she writes:
"It was 2008 when I got the call to come in and meet with Mark Burnett for a new show that he, ABC, and Sony were developing, called Shark Tank. The meeting went great and I was so excited to be chosen for the show. But then the most horrible thing happened: my mother, whom I loved very much, died suddenly right at the same time as shooting, and I had to withdraw."
The timeline fits. Shark Tank officially debuted on August 9, 2009. It's not impossible to suggest that the filming process for the show had begun several months prior to that.
[redacted] THCM THCM ( talk) 14:55, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
Certainly, I can understand that she could pass for 50. I assume she does what she can to stay in good physical condition. But the circumstantial evidence I see online suggests to me it's much more likely she was born in 1960 as opposed to 1969. There are details I cannot confirm - I cannot see when she attended and graduated from Loyola University, for instance, and I also cannot confirm the month and day of the year she was born on (her book does not give her birth year, by the way) - but December of 1969 simply doesn't make sense for the reasons explained and linked to above. If there is conclusive evidence to the contrary, by all means, revert back to 12/9/1969. But my reasoning is explained here to the fullest detail I can give. THCM THCM ( talk) 14:38, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
Dear @ Hipal: Can you provide an actionable item to do before removing the COI template? I looked over the article and wasn't able to find anything. But if the template is justified, then there must be something that should be done or addressed. Thank you, Caleb Stanford ( talk) 17:54, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Extended content
|
---|
[2] -- Hipal ( talk) 17:01, 22 September 2022 (UTC) Twelve hours later. Keep baiting, a-hole. Come on, continue talking to me. Stoarm ( talk) 09:23, 23 September 2022 (UTC) |
I'm happy to explain my perspective in more detail on the relevant content policies and the specific references.
I didn't see that the content was restored without consensus. We could copy it here for discussion, if that would help. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:10, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
To prevent further edit-warring, I'm copying the disputed information here for discussion. It should be removed from the article until we can find consensus, as BLP requires, and as enforced by sanctions.
To the lede:
Greiner has more than 500 inventions and holds 120 patents. [1] [2]
To "Career":
Greiner has patented consumer products in other categories such as cosmetic organization, jewelry storage, travel, electronics, and household items. [3] [1] Greiner has invented over 500 products and holds 120 patents. [1] [3] [2]
References
These edits add two new references:
The Inc ref is a video version of a previously rejected publicity piece [3]. The non-video version is identified as an opinion piece, so should not be used at all.
The ABC biography is promotional and not independent.
Both these new references are WP:PROMO and do not demonstrate any encyclopedic value or weight.
The third reference, from Parade, published before she partnered with AMG/Parade, is a puff piece. While I'm not against it's use completely, I think we should take care how it's being used so not to violate PROMO, NOTNEWS, and NPOV.
The three references do not verify the information. Each has a different number of "inventions", and the details about the patents isn't the same either.
I'm not sure how any number of "inventions" could be fact-checked, so we problably shouldn't use Wikipedia's voice, if we mention any number or estimate at all.
The differences in reporting about her patents makes it difficult to determine what, if anything we should include. It certainly can be fact-checked, so I'm hoping we can find a way to mention it.
I don't see how such poorly referenced information belongs in the lede, even if we can resolve the verification problems. -- Hipal ( talk) 22:37, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and removed the content as required in a BLP since there is clearly no consensus for it. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:17, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
I'm also concerned that her number of inventions has little context in these references, which we're not currently presenting at all. I think the article would be better off with that context rather than a rather meaningless, large number. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:54, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
If it's 500 and they mistyped 600that would be OR, and covering for sloppy reporting, neither of which we should be doing in a BLP.
As head of her own company, For Your Ease Only, Greiner has invented more than 600 products and procured over 120 patents, and the other info in the article, there's no question that she's an inventor. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 19:19, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Is she famous for being an inventor?. Judging by the refs, her work at QVC and Shark Tank are what she's famous for. It's her television work that should be first and foremost. Her entrepreneurial background second, and highly intertwined with her QVC show. From that perspective, I think the lede is fine. -- Hipal ( talk) 20:13, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
so perhaps you didn't read them carefully.Seems like you're just trolling me there. -- Hipal ( talk) 16:27, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
I'll make a deal. If you propose the exact changes you'd like to make to the article, and number each of them (e.g. Proposal 1, Proposal 2, etc.), I will support any to which TimTempleton agrees. Of course, you two may negotiate changes to your proposals so that both sides will be satisfied. My only conditions for this compromise are (1) that there must be a clear agreement between the two of you as to exactly what the change(s) will be, (2) TimTempleton will make the agreed upon edits, and (3) any subsequent changes by you to the agreed upon edits will be reverted unless there is a new agreement as outlined above. I believe my offer could result in a very quick resolution to this ongoing dispute. Stoarm ( talk) 15:54, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
Follow WP:DR. WP:DRN seems to be what you're trying to do. -- Hipal ( talk) 23:40, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
Re [9]: I provided a brief explanation for each of my five edits there, and none are related to the disputes above. Please explain, citing relevant policies, why none have been retained. -- Hipal ( talk) 16:40, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
see tp, consensus still needed for these issues, content prose prev addressed and edited with regard to tag(s)/promotion, content that is potentially contentious or likely to be challenged s/b sourced even in lead and/or have multiple refs to verifyAs I said, I don't believe any of the edits, other than perhaps the tag, have anything to do with the other disputes. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:01, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
Any policy-based objections to removing the references from the lede? -- Hipal ( talk) 16:12, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
9 December 1969 (age 53 years), Chicago, Illinois, United States Sunny Diyali ( talk) 16:09, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
@ Hipal Hi, I'm not too sure if this will be considered a reliable source by Wikipedia standards, but on the Loyola Chicago University Twitter page, it has listed her as being an alumni and having received her BA in 1982. [10] Kcj5062 ( talk) 00:22, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
Okay I know this won't be considered a reliable source, but I thought I'd point it out. On page 172 of the 1979 Loyola Chicago University yearbook, there's a picture of the Alpha Kappa Phi fraternity and she's listed among the names. This was before she got married so her last name was Husman at the time. [12] This makes the 1960 birth year seem more accurate because unless she's some sort of child prodigy, it's unlikely she was already in college at 9-10 years old. Kcj5062 ( talk) 06:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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![]() | The following Wikipedia contributors may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
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neutral point of view.
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Can't find references to her inventing chalupas for Taco Bell or AirHogs helicopters, are those statements just vandalism? 71.139.177.218 ( talk) 02:28, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I can't find any reference to Travis Stork as Greiner's spouse. In fact, in Crain's and several other places her husband is listed as Dan Greiner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssonwalkar ( talk • contribs) 17:20, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Tag removal request - I request you to please remove the ADVERT maintenance tag at the top of the page as I have edited the copy and have removed the promotional content that made the copy read like an advertisement. The page now has only factual content following WP:CCPOL guidelines. Thank you. 103.57.71.178 ( talk) 09:26, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Please consult assigning editor
{{
request edit}}
template's answer parameter to read from |ans=yes
to |ans=no
. Thank you! It certainly is much better. Thank you for the work.
There are references without basic information, and the references are not using the same format throughout. This makes the article difficult to review and needs to be fixed.
Even with the confusion of the references, there are poor and promotional references being used for material in the lede. That's enough from my perspective to leave the tag in.
The number of WP:SPA editors involved, the amount of content they've added, and the promotional nature of the content strongly suggests WP:COI if not WP:UPE editing.
I've added a few more tags specific to these problems. -- Ronz ( talk) 18:42, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
![]() | The
Wikimedia Foundation's
Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see
WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see
WP:COIRESPONSE.
|
Please remove the tag of close connection as well. 103.57.71.178 ( talk) 13:05, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hey Ronz,
I am requesting you to please remove the tags on this page. All citations have been completed by a previous editor while the unclear citation style has also been taken care of. The article's list sources do show notable and reliable names such as Bustle (magazine), Forbes, Crain's Chicago Business, NY Times, The Philadelphia Inquirer, Business Insider, Entrepreneur.com, New York Post etc. which are enough to establish notability. Also, after the changes as per the talk page history, the article reads factual. I would appreciate if you could look into this, have also left a message on your talk page. I am making this paid request on behalf of Lori Greiner. Thanks.
FamJoshua1 ( talk) 22:02, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi,
Please add the following sentence in the first paragraph of the page - She has invented over 500 products and holds over 120 patents. [1]
Please add the following line in the second paragraph of 'Shark Tank' section - As of May 2019, Greiner’s Shark Tank investments have made more than $870 million in retail sales. [2]
Please add the following line in 'Publications' section - In March 2019, she launched her first magazine Living Inspired, published in partnership with AMG/Parade. [3]
Thanks, appreciate your support!
FamJoshua1 ( talk) 17:02, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
References
{{
cite news}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |1=
(
help)
Hi Ronz - Editor assistance page stalker here. I think we disagree about the numerous hatnotes on this article. I cleaned up the article and cleared them, but you put them back. Rather than revert, per common courtesy I'm starting this discussion so you as the tagger can defend them. For example, the citations look fine to me. Almost every statement is sourced. The sources all appear reliable - do you know of any that have been flagged on the reliable sources noticeboard? I see potential COI editing history with the SPA accounts, but nothing recently. The talk pages says that FamJoshua1 may have a conflict of interest, but he (or she?) only filled in the bare refs. Since everything is properly sourced and isn't promotional, the hatnotes may not be necessary. Thanks for you help keeping the encyclopedia in great shape. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 17:50, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
The date of birth commonly see online suggests Mrs. Greiner was born in 1969, but there are conflicting reasons for why this doesn't make sense.
Mrs. Greiner's parents divorced in March of 1969. It's mentioned here. It is commonly said (though I cannot confirm through independent research) that her parents divorced when she was nine years old. It is exceedingly unlikely that her parents would have even been, you know, "her parents" if they officially divorced nine months prior to December 1969 (her stated month and year of birth both here and on many unreputable sites online) and it is impossible for them to have divorced when she was nine years old when the given divorce was nine months prior to her being born at all.
Well, how would I know that the person in the link is her mother, by chance? I suppose I cannot confirm 100%, but circumstantial evidence points to it. Ms. Husman died in November 2008. In Mrs. Greiner's book, she writes:
"It was 2008 when I got the call to come in and meet with Mark Burnett for a new show that he, ABC, and Sony were developing, called Shark Tank. The meeting went great and I was so excited to be chosen for the show. But then the most horrible thing happened: my mother, whom I loved very much, died suddenly right at the same time as shooting, and I had to withdraw."
The timeline fits. Shark Tank officially debuted on August 9, 2009. It's not impossible to suggest that the filming process for the show had begun several months prior to that.
[redacted] THCM THCM ( talk) 14:55, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
Certainly, I can understand that she could pass for 50. I assume she does what she can to stay in good physical condition. But the circumstantial evidence I see online suggests to me it's much more likely she was born in 1960 as opposed to 1969. There are details I cannot confirm - I cannot see when she attended and graduated from Loyola University, for instance, and I also cannot confirm the month and day of the year she was born on (her book does not give her birth year, by the way) - but December of 1969 simply doesn't make sense for the reasons explained and linked to above. If there is conclusive evidence to the contrary, by all means, revert back to 12/9/1969. But my reasoning is explained here to the fullest detail I can give. THCM THCM ( talk) 14:38, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
Dear @ Hipal: Can you provide an actionable item to do before removing the COI template? I looked over the article and wasn't able to find anything. But if the template is justified, then there must be something that should be done or addressed. Thank you, Caleb Stanford ( talk) 17:54, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
Extended content
|
---|
[2] -- Hipal ( talk) 17:01, 22 September 2022 (UTC) Twelve hours later. Keep baiting, a-hole. Come on, continue talking to me. Stoarm ( talk) 09:23, 23 September 2022 (UTC) |
I'm happy to explain my perspective in more detail on the relevant content policies and the specific references.
I didn't see that the content was restored without consensus. We could copy it here for discussion, if that would help. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:10, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
To prevent further edit-warring, I'm copying the disputed information here for discussion. It should be removed from the article until we can find consensus, as BLP requires, and as enforced by sanctions.
To the lede:
Greiner has more than 500 inventions and holds 120 patents. [1] [2]
To "Career":
Greiner has patented consumer products in other categories such as cosmetic organization, jewelry storage, travel, electronics, and household items. [3] [1] Greiner has invented over 500 products and holds 120 patents. [1] [3] [2]
References
These edits add two new references:
The Inc ref is a video version of a previously rejected publicity piece [3]. The non-video version is identified as an opinion piece, so should not be used at all.
The ABC biography is promotional and not independent.
Both these new references are WP:PROMO and do not demonstrate any encyclopedic value or weight.
The third reference, from Parade, published before she partnered with AMG/Parade, is a puff piece. While I'm not against it's use completely, I think we should take care how it's being used so not to violate PROMO, NOTNEWS, and NPOV.
The three references do not verify the information. Each has a different number of "inventions", and the details about the patents isn't the same either.
I'm not sure how any number of "inventions" could be fact-checked, so we problably shouldn't use Wikipedia's voice, if we mention any number or estimate at all.
The differences in reporting about her patents makes it difficult to determine what, if anything we should include. It certainly can be fact-checked, so I'm hoping we can find a way to mention it.
I don't see how such poorly referenced information belongs in the lede, even if we can resolve the verification problems. -- Hipal ( talk) 22:37, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and removed the content as required in a BLP since there is clearly no consensus for it. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:17, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
I'm also concerned that her number of inventions has little context in these references, which we're not currently presenting at all. I think the article would be better off with that context rather than a rather meaningless, large number. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:54, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
If it's 500 and they mistyped 600that would be OR, and covering for sloppy reporting, neither of which we should be doing in a BLP.
As head of her own company, For Your Ease Only, Greiner has invented more than 600 products and procured over 120 patents, and the other info in the article, there's no question that she's an inventor. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 19:19, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
Is she famous for being an inventor?. Judging by the refs, her work at QVC and Shark Tank are what she's famous for. It's her television work that should be first and foremost. Her entrepreneurial background second, and highly intertwined with her QVC show. From that perspective, I think the lede is fine. -- Hipal ( talk) 20:13, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
so perhaps you didn't read them carefully.Seems like you're just trolling me there. -- Hipal ( talk) 16:27, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
I'll make a deal. If you propose the exact changes you'd like to make to the article, and number each of them (e.g. Proposal 1, Proposal 2, etc.), I will support any to which TimTempleton agrees. Of course, you two may negotiate changes to your proposals so that both sides will be satisfied. My only conditions for this compromise are (1) that there must be a clear agreement between the two of you as to exactly what the change(s) will be, (2) TimTempleton will make the agreed upon edits, and (3) any subsequent changes by you to the agreed upon edits will be reverted unless there is a new agreement as outlined above. I believe my offer could result in a very quick resolution to this ongoing dispute. Stoarm ( talk) 15:54, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
Follow WP:DR. WP:DRN seems to be what you're trying to do. -- Hipal ( talk) 23:40, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
Re [9]: I provided a brief explanation for each of my five edits there, and none are related to the disputes above. Please explain, citing relevant policies, why none have been retained. -- Hipal ( talk) 16:40, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
see tp, consensus still needed for these issues, content prose prev addressed and edited with regard to tag(s)/promotion, content that is potentially contentious or likely to be challenged s/b sourced even in lead and/or have multiple refs to verifyAs I said, I don't believe any of the edits, other than perhaps the tag, have anything to do with the other disputes. -- Hipal ( talk) 17:01, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
Any policy-based objections to removing the references from the lede? -- Hipal ( talk) 16:12, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
9 December 1969 (age 53 years), Chicago, Illinois, United States Sunny Diyali ( talk) 16:09, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
@ Hipal Hi, I'm not too sure if this will be considered a reliable source by Wikipedia standards, but on the Loyola Chicago University Twitter page, it has listed her as being an alumni and having received her BA in 1982. [10] Kcj5062 ( talk) 00:22, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
Okay I know this won't be considered a reliable source, but I thought I'd point it out. On page 172 of the 1979 Loyola Chicago University yearbook, there's a picture of the Alpha Kappa Phi fraternity and she's listed among the names. This was before she got married so her last name was Husman at the time. [12] This makes the 1960 birth year seem more accurate because unless she's some sort of child prodigy, it's unlikely she was already in college at 9-10 years old. Kcj5062 ( talk) 06:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)