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This article is currently crap. It misses all the interesting stuff about this song (such as for example, that it refers to or was inspired by Ray Davies's dating of Candy Darling, a well-known transvestite, also the subject of Walk On The Wild Side), and spends a lot of time stating the bloody obvious, like the ambiguities in the lyrics, which anyone who has heard the song will be more than well-aware of (assuming they're older than about 10). This needs a total overhaul. This is exactly the sort of article that Wikipedia is being mocked for - totally missing the wood for the trees. Has anyone here ever read an encyclopedia. other than this one? Graham 13:21, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
153.2.246.31 09:55, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm new to Wikipedia, but my understanding is that anyone can edit (or completely re-write) any article on the site. This means that if you feel the article is "currently crap," then you should take the effort to FIX it, instead of just complaining about it. Nothing will improve if people expend all their energy pointing out flaws without offering any constructive criticism. Why don't you add to the article the things you feel are missing? However, be sure to actually proof-read your article for correct grammar before saving it; I wouldn't consider it an improvement to the article if it's written as poorly as your above opinion.
And by the way, the current article answered the questions that I had about the song, so it's not completely worthless after all.
Adam, USA 153.2.246.31 09:55, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
The original stuff about the ambiguity in this article was written by a student of mine that I haven't seen in quite a while. We had been discussing deconstruction and I suggested to him that this song was a good place to start because, based on the lyrics of the song, there is no way to determine whether or not Lola is a man or a woman. I also pointed him to an article by Derrida and he had, in the very earliest version with the references to the ambiguity, mentioned Derrida.
In any event, most of that stuff has been removed. I pointed to "Lola" because I'm a Kinks fan and after he had listened to it and gotten a grasp of Derrida, he send me a link to the article. Part of the first argument going on here that the article needs to be rewritten is that "spends a lot of time stating the bloody obvious, like the ambiguities in the lyrics, which anyone who has heard the song will be more than well-aware of (assuming they're older than about 10)" which is, in my experience, untrue. I've used this song several times in classes and hardly anybody gets the ambiguity until it's pointed out to them even if they've heard the song dozens of times before I ask them to look closeley at the lyrics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Will1410 ( talk • contribs) .
I just listened to the version on AOL's internet music broadcasting and it had a different version of the final line in which there was no ambiguity. He said "I know what I am. I'ma man and so is Lola." I listened to the line over and over to make sure I was hearing it right. Does anyone know who sings this version? Apofisu 09:49, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I remember the song coming out, have played the record loads of times and have performed it with a band on a couple of occasions, but I never noticed any ambiguity. I thought it was clear from the start that Lola was a transvestite. Have I missed something all these years? Clearly there is some ambiguity in the mind of the man in the song (though this seems to be cleared up at the end). However, for a listener, doesn't this constitute irony rather than ambiguity? Bluewave 12:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I once read an interview with Pete Quaife, the Kinks' original bass player, where he thought that maybe Lola was inspired by an inccident in the late 1960's involving drummer Mick Avory. I can't remember where I read it, but it might be worth noting as another possible influence for the song's subject matter. Also, Lola was note the first song of such subject matter to hit the charts, just listen to the Who's 1966 #2 hit "I'm A Boy", they're both about the same thing (sort of).
Why on earth are there three references to Futurama? It is listed as a reference, listed under trivia and someone has stuck in a large box linked to the particular episode. Furthermore, the song itself is not even parodied in the said episode, the object of that joke being William Shatner's musical efforts e.g. his version of Lucy in the Sky, as Zapp is a parody of Kirk from Star Trek. I shall remove both the reference and the box and add a link to the related episode under trivia, after re-wording it. -- JamesTheNumberless 09:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the section about the "ambiguitiy" of the lyrics; Davies himself has said that the song is based on Candy Darling, and in a discussion above the author actually states that the section was original research. Wikipedia guidelines specifically disallow any original interpretations of songs or literature. No matter how evident someone thinks the implications are, unless there are reliable sources for these claims, the section shouldn't be here. Kafziel Talk 21:29, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
mcfly did a cover of the song feturing busted on their first single, five colours in her hair- coiuld someone add that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Veggieburgerfish ( talk • contribs) 20:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Image:Kinkslolasong.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 19:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Many, many Wikipedia pages including those about specific songs have a list of external links at or near the end. The same should be true about this page. At the very least there should be external links to the song's lyrics and guitar tablature.
74.223.82.114 ( talk) 00:21, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
"Lola" was covered by Widespread Panic on October 31, 2010, at their concert at the UNO Lakefront Arena in New Orleans, LA. That can be verified on their setlist, found here:
http://www.everydaycompanion.com/setlists/20101031a.asp
I was at the show, and the lead singer John Bell was dressed as a transvestite, a relevant factoid I would like to use in the post.
floresen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Floresen ( talk • contribs) 02:47, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
I've added the reference (now that I can see it here) to the article, but deleted all of your material regarding costuming and what set it was. That's all original research, and doesn't help us here. I'm not sure the live performances even count, though, not just of Widespread Panic but of the other bands similarly shown. I think the covers are really only notable (if at all) if they're recorded. Any band might throw in a performance of " Johnny B. Goode" or " Shout" during a show, so a band doing "Lola" (ahem) once isn't too noteworthy. I suspect these ought to be removed, along with the other mentions in that section that have no references. — JohnFromPinckney ( talk) 09:09, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
I read the now-ancient discussions above about the song's ambiguity (most of which are under the unhelpfully titled section " Added much stuff today"), but the last post was so long ago that I am opening the topic anew.
I think previous discussions got caught too deeply in technicalities related to the song's composition (i.e., was the song inspired by an experience Davies or someone close to him had with a transvestite, etc) and lost sight of the song itself, which is the actual subject of this article. A huge part of this song's nearly irresistible charm is the teasingly playful way it dances around the possibility that Lola is actually a man without ever declaring unequivocally whether she is or not.
How much less delightful and how very much more mundane this song would be if it tied up the loose ends it has tantalizingly dangled before the audience from almost the very beginning! Whatever second thoughts Davies may have had later, there can be no doubt that in the original recordings of the song the playful, teasing ambiguity is deliberate and left tantalizingly unresolved at the end by the brilliantly ambiguous "... I'm glad I'm a man, and so is Lola." Even in Davies's quoted account of the song's origin, he opens the possibility gently and ambiguously with, "Have you seen the stubble?" instead of something heavyhanded like, "Hey, that chick's a dude!"
I am not a renowned music critic whose opinion means anything to anybody but me, but I think we do this marvelous song a grave disservice by saying so flatly "... which details a romantic encounter between a young man and a transvestite ...", when the song itself is anything but flat and ploddingly straightforward.
I will not get involved in even the slightest disagreement over this issue, so if any editor is determined to restore the description to its former state I will not revert it. But I hope anyone who feels compelled to remove the "possible" I am adding before "transvestite" will first take time to set aside the details of its composition for a few minutes and listen to the song itself in its original recordings; listen to the wonderfully playful spirit of this fantastic song and see how expansive, how gently open to all sorts of possibilities it actually is.
Within the song, whether Lola is a woman or a man is not anywhere near as important as the possibility that she may be either, and either possibility is just fine with the singer. Unlike most stories like this, which end in violence, the singer here thinks Lola is just great whichever he/she turns out to be.
Although the song almost surely would never have been written if Lola had been a woman, and therefore she almost surely is a man, the fact that the song doesn't ever hit us over the head with that fact – even at the end, when it almost seems to but really doesn't – is an important part of its gentle, playful, joyful charm.-- Jim10701 ( talk) 18:26, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
The Category:LGBT-related songs has been added and deleted from this article by various editors, so I thought I'd bring it here for discussion. I don't see why this would be an appropriate category. No reliable source has indicated it is LGBT-related. Although the song was inspired after a person's night out with a transvestite, IMO that does not make this song LGBT-related. I'm interested in other views so the use of this category can be settled. Thanks, Bahooka ( talk) 14:48, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
The album covers show "Berkeley Man" and "Berkeley News". The text states "Berkeley Mews".
Playful ambiguity? Maybe not... probably just a mistake.
It would be great if someone could clear this up. I can't because the only research channel I'm familiar with is inconclusive (hint you're reading it now). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.38.6.130 ( talk) 22:37, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
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I remember reading here that there was a remix of this song told from Lola's perspective and I assume it was removed from the article.
Does anyone remember this and if so, can I still have the name of the song? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.93.155.105 ( talk) 20:39, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
Lola (song) has been listed as one of the
Music good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: June 11, 2015. ( Reviewed version). |
Lola (song) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from Lola (song) appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 31 July 2015 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is currently crap. It misses all the interesting stuff about this song (such as for example, that it refers to or was inspired by Ray Davies's dating of Candy Darling, a well-known transvestite, also the subject of Walk On The Wild Side), and spends a lot of time stating the bloody obvious, like the ambiguities in the lyrics, which anyone who has heard the song will be more than well-aware of (assuming they're older than about 10). This needs a total overhaul. This is exactly the sort of article that Wikipedia is being mocked for - totally missing the wood for the trees. Has anyone here ever read an encyclopedia. other than this one? Graham 13:21, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
153.2.246.31 09:55, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm new to Wikipedia, but my understanding is that anyone can edit (or completely re-write) any article on the site. This means that if you feel the article is "currently crap," then you should take the effort to FIX it, instead of just complaining about it. Nothing will improve if people expend all their energy pointing out flaws without offering any constructive criticism. Why don't you add to the article the things you feel are missing? However, be sure to actually proof-read your article for correct grammar before saving it; I wouldn't consider it an improvement to the article if it's written as poorly as your above opinion.
And by the way, the current article answered the questions that I had about the song, so it's not completely worthless after all.
Adam, USA 153.2.246.31 09:55, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
The original stuff about the ambiguity in this article was written by a student of mine that I haven't seen in quite a while. We had been discussing deconstruction and I suggested to him that this song was a good place to start because, based on the lyrics of the song, there is no way to determine whether or not Lola is a man or a woman. I also pointed him to an article by Derrida and he had, in the very earliest version with the references to the ambiguity, mentioned Derrida.
In any event, most of that stuff has been removed. I pointed to "Lola" because I'm a Kinks fan and after he had listened to it and gotten a grasp of Derrida, he send me a link to the article. Part of the first argument going on here that the article needs to be rewritten is that "spends a lot of time stating the bloody obvious, like the ambiguities in the lyrics, which anyone who has heard the song will be more than well-aware of (assuming they're older than about 10)" which is, in my experience, untrue. I've used this song several times in classes and hardly anybody gets the ambiguity until it's pointed out to them even if they've heard the song dozens of times before I ask them to look closeley at the lyrics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Will1410 ( talk • contribs) .
I just listened to the version on AOL's internet music broadcasting and it had a different version of the final line in which there was no ambiguity. He said "I know what I am. I'ma man and so is Lola." I listened to the line over and over to make sure I was hearing it right. Does anyone know who sings this version? Apofisu 09:49, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I remember the song coming out, have played the record loads of times and have performed it with a band on a couple of occasions, but I never noticed any ambiguity. I thought it was clear from the start that Lola was a transvestite. Have I missed something all these years? Clearly there is some ambiguity in the mind of the man in the song (though this seems to be cleared up at the end). However, for a listener, doesn't this constitute irony rather than ambiguity? Bluewave 12:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I once read an interview with Pete Quaife, the Kinks' original bass player, where he thought that maybe Lola was inspired by an inccident in the late 1960's involving drummer Mick Avory. I can't remember where I read it, but it might be worth noting as another possible influence for the song's subject matter. Also, Lola was note the first song of such subject matter to hit the charts, just listen to the Who's 1966 #2 hit "I'm A Boy", they're both about the same thing (sort of).
Why on earth are there three references to Futurama? It is listed as a reference, listed under trivia and someone has stuck in a large box linked to the particular episode. Furthermore, the song itself is not even parodied in the said episode, the object of that joke being William Shatner's musical efforts e.g. his version of Lucy in the Sky, as Zapp is a parody of Kirk from Star Trek. I shall remove both the reference and the box and add a link to the related episode under trivia, after re-wording it. -- JamesTheNumberless 09:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the section about the "ambiguitiy" of the lyrics; Davies himself has said that the song is based on Candy Darling, and in a discussion above the author actually states that the section was original research. Wikipedia guidelines specifically disallow any original interpretations of songs or literature. No matter how evident someone thinks the implications are, unless there are reliable sources for these claims, the section shouldn't be here. Kafziel Talk 21:29, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
mcfly did a cover of the song feturing busted on their first single, five colours in her hair- coiuld someone add that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Veggieburgerfish ( talk • contribs) 20:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Image:Kinkslolasong.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 19:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Many, many Wikipedia pages including those about specific songs have a list of external links at or near the end. The same should be true about this page. At the very least there should be external links to the song's lyrics and guitar tablature.
74.223.82.114 ( talk) 00:21, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
"Lola" was covered by Widespread Panic on October 31, 2010, at their concert at the UNO Lakefront Arena in New Orleans, LA. That can be verified on their setlist, found here:
http://www.everydaycompanion.com/setlists/20101031a.asp
I was at the show, and the lead singer John Bell was dressed as a transvestite, a relevant factoid I would like to use in the post.
floresen —Preceding unsigned comment added by Floresen ( talk • contribs) 02:47, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
I've added the reference (now that I can see it here) to the article, but deleted all of your material regarding costuming and what set it was. That's all original research, and doesn't help us here. I'm not sure the live performances even count, though, not just of Widespread Panic but of the other bands similarly shown. I think the covers are really only notable (if at all) if they're recorded. Any band might throw in a performance of " Johnny B. Goode" or " Shout" during a show, so a band doing "Lola" (ahem) once isn't too noteworthy. I suspect these ought to be removed, along with the other mentions in that section that have no references. — JohnFromPinckney ( talk) 09:09, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
I read the now-ancient discussions above about the song's ambiguity (most of which are under the unhelpfully titled section " Added much stuff today"), but the last post was so long ago that I am opening the topic anew.
I think previous discussions got caught too deeply in technicalities related to the song's composition (i.e., was the song inspired by an experience Davies or someone close to him had with a transvestite, etc) and lost sight of the song itself, which is the actual subject of this article. A huge part of this song's nearly irresistible charm is the teasingly playful way it dances around the possibility that Lola is actually a man without ever declaring unequivocally whether she is or not.
How much less delightful and how very much more mundane this song would be if it tied up the loose ends it has tantalizingly dangled before the audience from almost the very beginning! Whatever second thoughts Davies may have had later, there can be no doubt that in the original recordings of the song the playful, teasing ambiguity is deliberate and left tantalizingly unresolved at the end by the brilliantly ambiguous "... I'm glad I'm a man, and so is Lola." Even in Davies's quoted account of the song's origin, he opens the possibility gently and ambiguously with, "Have you seen the stubble?" instead of something heavyhanded like, "Hey, that chick's a dude!"
I am not a renowned music critic whose opinion means anything to anybody but me, but I think we do this marvelous song a grave disservice by saying so flatly "... which details a romantic encounter between a young man and a transvestite ...", when the song itself is anything but flat and ploddingly straightforward.
I will not get involved in even the slightest disagreement over this issue, so if any editor is determined to restore the description to its former state I will not revert it. But I hope anyone who feels compelled to remove the "possible" I am adding before "transvestite" will first take time to set aside the details of its composition for a few minutes and listen to the song itself in its original recordings; listen to the wonderfully playful spirit of this fantastic song and see how expansive, how gently open to all sorts of possibilities it actually is.
Within the song, whether Lola is a woman or a man is not anywhere near as important as the possibility that she may be either, and either possibility is just fine with the singer. Unlike most stories like this, which end in violence, the singer here thinks Lola is just great whichever he/she turns out to be.
Although the song almost surely would never have been written if Lola had been a woman, and therefore she almost surely is a man, the fact that the song doesn't ever hit us over the head with that fact – even at the end, when it almost seems to but really doesn't – is an important part of its gentle, playful, joyful charm.-- Jim10701 ( talk) 18:26, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
The Category:LGBT-related songs has been added and deleted from this article by various editors, so I thought I'd bring it here for discussion. I don't see why this would be an appropriate category. No reliable source has indicated it is LGBT-related. Although the song was inspired after a person's night out with a transvestite, IMO that does not make this song LGBT-related. I'm interested in other views so the use of this category can be settled. Thanks, Bahooka ( talk) 14:48, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
The album covers show "Berkeley Man" and "Berkeley News". The text states "Berkeley Mews".
Playful ambiguity? Maybe not... probably just a mistake.
It would be great if someone could clear this up. I can't because the only research channel I'm familiar with is inconclusive (hint you're reading it now). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.38.6.130 ( talk) 22:37, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
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I remember reading here that there was a remix of this song told from Lola's perspective and I assume it was removed from the article.
Does anyone remember this and if so, can I still have the name of the song? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.93.155.105 ( talk) 20:39, 11 March 2018 (UTC)