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Size? -- Menchi ( Talk) â 03:44, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I am pretty sure that this is a Turkish sweet (although it may well be available in Greece as well). Can anyone confirm this?
--I don't know who does the thinking or research for these kinds of articles but obviously you need to up your game. These pastries were served as a prize for ancient Olympians, the rough translation is honey tokens, which is where the English born Cypriots and Greek derived the name honey balls . Considering the ancient origin, Turks were not around yet and were still Mongols. The Origin is clearly from ancient Greece. You can research Callimachus, a Greek poet who details this in some text. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
82.8.224.245 (
talk) 17:43, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
The redirect from sfinges comes here. Shouldn't go to zeppole? I don't know how to change it, or I would. 76.215.2.140 23:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
This page is sort of all over the place. The reader is bombarded with tons of different spellings and other language equivalents so it is hard to distinguish what they are. I think the article should be "Loukoumades" since that is the most common English name. Before I edited it a little, it had a definite Turkish pov, that hopefully I made more neutral. What do people think? Grk1011/Stephen ( talk) 20:24, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I seriously disagree with the title of the article. Although it is good that you removed the Turkish bias while reediting it, the title now shows Greek bias. We have to find a solution for that, and I propose a return to "Lokma". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.104.147.59 ( talk) 12:21, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Well a "kabob" is more common in English than a Kebab as well, I do not think that constitutes a valid pretext. -- Emir Ali Enç ( talk) 12:28, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I moved the page to Lukumades but this was undone (as some other pages) by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dr.K. .
Even in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Greek it states the following. Loukoumades is not the right way to write it, it just reinforces the wrong transliteration and spelling and also pronounciation (people pronounce it always wrong with the form Loukoumades (because this is not a scientific article, the form Lukumades should be used instead of the wrong form Loukoumades).
I feel bad because Dr. K doesn't understand this, even though he should. GreekAlex ( talk) 07:23, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
The book of Exodus and Numbers are written in Biblical Hebrew, not Modern Greek. The references here are to manna, not fried dough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.229.243.132 ( talk) 19:54, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Some old page history that used to be at the title "Lokma" is now at Talk:Lokma/Old history. Graham 87 16:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
The article currently states "Lokma is first described as part of Turkish cuisine in the 9th century Kara-Khanid Khanate" and references "Ahmed Cavid, Tercüme-i Kenzü'l-İştiha, eds. Seyit Ali Kahraman, Priscilla Mary Işın, İstanbul:Kitap Yayınevi, 2006, 22, 98". I don't have access to that source, but I find this statement dubious, as one of those authors, Priscilla Mary Işın, contradicts this here [1]. Also, Nisanyan gives the 16th century as the earliest attestation in Turkish, [2]. Unless someone can provide an insight to the source, or some other explanation, I plan to revise the article accordingly. -- IamNotU ( talk) 01:45, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
Fyi, I've done a WP:BLANKANDREDIRECT from the article Awameh ( [3]) to this one per the talk page discussion Talk:Awameh#Proposed merge with Lokma. It seems uncontroversial since it's just another word for the same food, is already described in this article, and the other article was a stub. None of its contents were copied here. -- IamNotU ( talk) 15:49, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
I've removed yet again some content (and copyright violations) added by 67.85.246.66 ( talk) from Brooklyn, and reinstated by 2a02:587:4418:4e70:7902:91d0:fb5:1231 ( talk) from Athens with different sources. It talks about loukoumades being the earliest pastries ever written about, and being awarded as prizes to the victors of the first Olympic games, supposedly based on a description by Callimachus of charisioi or so-called "honey tokens". This story can be found on a number of dubious blogs, bakery websites, and similar places. This may be in part Wikipedia's fault, since it has been added to (and removed from) this article repeatedly over more than a decade (see e.g. this 2008 edit: [4] by a Toronto IP, a day after this unsourced Toronto blog post: [5]). However, I'm not able to find any scholarly reliable source that supports this assertion.
I removed one citation of a translation of writings attributed to Catullus and Tibullus, who are not the same person as Callimachus. I also removed a citation (and copypaste) of a 1995 recipe article by Vicki C. Glaros, published in the Washington Post: [6] that made these claims, and seems likely to be the source of many similar ones. Although the Washington Post is usually considered a reliable source, there are so many problems with that article that it clearly can't be considered reliable. They include:
Above all, the combination of grain and honey has been known since prehistoric times, with literally thousands of different traditions, preparations, and recipes. I can see no reasonable direct connection to be made between vague mentions of such foods in ancient texts and the dish named luqmat al-qādi, yeast-leavened deep-fried balls of dough with honey, that appears in the historical record sometime between the 10th and 13th centuries. -- IamNotU ( talk) 02:29, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
Pinging Macrakis, who was the first to revert speculation about charisioi / χαρίσιοι being the same thing as loukoumades, oh-so-many years ago: [11]. The Athens IP who is citing all the blogs doesn't seem to get WP:BRD, may need some help here... -- IamNotU ( talk) 03:44, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
It is known as kaimati in East Africa especially in Kenya and Tanzania. Shape and texture are largely the same. More information about the East African "kaimati" can be added or had from the internet. There is much information under kaimati. 2400:2411:81C2:A600:6410:CAC3:9CA4:AE67 ( talk) 06:18, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Lokma article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Size? -- Menchi ( Talk) â 03:44, 22 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I am pretty sure that this is a Turkish sweet (although it may well be available in Greece as well). Can anyone confirm this?
--I don't know who does the thinking or research for these kinds of articles but obviously you need to up your game. These pastries were served as a prize for ancient Olympians, the rough translation is honey tokens, which is where the English born Cypriots and Greek derived the name honey balls . Considering the ancient origin, Turks were not around yet and were still Mongols. The Origin is clearly from ancient Greece. You can research Callimachus, a Greek poet who details this in some text. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
82.8.224.245 (
talk) 17:43, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
The redirect from sfinges comes here. Shouldn't go to zeppole? I don't know how to change it, or I would. 76.215.2.140 23:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
This page is sort of all over the place. The reader is bombarded with tons of different spellings and other language equivalents so it is hard to distinguish what they are. I think the article should be "Loukoumades" since that is the most common English name. Before I edited it a little, it had a definite Turkish pov, that hopefully I made more neutral. What do people think? Grk1011/Stephen ( talk) 20:24, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
I seriously disagree with the title of the article. Although it is good that you removed the Turkish bias while reediting it, the title now shows Greek bias. We have to find a solution for that, and I propose a return to "Lokma". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.104.147.59 ( talk) 12:21, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Well a "kabob" is more common in English than a Kebab as well, I do not think that constitutes a valid pretext. -- Emir Ali Enç ( talk) 12:28, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
I moved the page to Lukumades but this was undone (as some other pages) by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dr.K. .
Even in the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Greek it states the following. Loukoumades is not the right way to write it, it just reinforces the wrong transliteration and spelling and also pronounciation (people pronounce it always wrong with the form Loukoumades (because this is not a scientific article, the form Lukumades should be used instead of the wrong form Loukoumades).
I feel bad because Dr. K doesn't understand this, even though he should. GreekAlex ( talk) 07:23, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
The book of Exodus and Numbers are written in Biblical Hebrew, not Modern Greek. The references here are to manna, not fried dough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.229.243.132 ( talk) 19:54, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Some old page history that used to be at the title "Lokma" is now at Talk:Lokma/Old history. Graham 87 16:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
The article currently states "Lokma is first described as part of Turkish cuisine in the 9th century Kara-Khanid Khanate" and references "Ahmed Cavid, Tercüme-i Kenzü'l-İştiha, eds. Seyit Ali Kahraman, Priscilla Mary Işın, İstanbul:Kitap Yayınevi, 2006, 22, 98". I don't have access to that source, but I find this statement dubious, as one of those authors, Priscilla Mary Işın, contradicts this here [1]. Also, Nisanyan gives the 16th century as the earliest attestation in Turkish, [2]. Unless someone can provide an insight to the source, or some other explanation, I plan to revise the article accordingly. -- IamNotU ( talk) 01:45, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
Fyi, I've done a WP:BLANKANDREDIRECT from the article Awameh ( [3]) to this one per the talk page discussion Talk:Awameh#Proposed merge with Lokma. It seems uncontroversial since it's just another word for the same food, is already described in this article, and the other article was a stub. None of its contents were copied here. -- IamNotU ( talk) 15:49, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
I've removed yet again some content (and copyright violations) added by 67.85.246.66 ( talk) from Brooklyn, and reinstated by 2a02:587:4418:4e70:7902:91d0:fb5:1231 ( talk) from Athens with different sources. It talks about loukoumades being the earliest pastries ever written about, and being awarded as prizes to the victors of the first Olympic games, supposedly based on a description by Callimachus of charisioi or so-called "honey tokens". This story can be found on a number of dubious blogs, bakery websites, and similar places. This may be in part Wikipedia's fault, since it has been added to (and removed from) this article repeatedly over more than a decade (see e.g. this 2008 edit: [4] by a Toronto IP, a day after this unsourced Toronto blog post: [5]). However, I'm not able to find any scholarly reliable source that supports this assertion.
I removed one citation of a translation of writings attributed to Catullus and Tibullus, who are not the same person as Callimachus. I also removed a citation (and copypaste) of a 1995 recipe article by Vicki C. Glaros, published in the Washington Post: [6] that made these claims, and seems likely to be the source of many similar ones. Although the Washington Post is usually considered a reliable source, there are so many problems with that article that it clearly can't be considered reliable. They include:
Above all, the combination of grain and honey has been known since prehistoric times, with literally thousands of different traditions, preparations, and recipes. I can see no reasonable direct connection to be made between vague mentions of such foods in ancient texts and the dish named luqmat al-qādi, yeast-leavened deep-fried balls of dough with honey, that appears in the historical record sometime between the 10th and 13th centuries. -- IamNotU ( talk) 02:29, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
Pinging Macrakis, who was the first to revert speculation about charisioi / χαρίσιοι being the same thing as loukoumades, oh-so-many years ago: [11]. The Athens IP who is citing all the blogs doesn't seem to get WP:BRD, may need some help here... -- IamNotU ( talk) 03:44, 8 September 2020 (UTC)
It is known as kaimati in East Africa especially in Kenya and Tanzania. Shape and texture are largely the same. More information about the East African "kaimati" can be added or had from the internet. There is much information under kaimati. 2400:2411:81C2:A600:6410:CAC3:9CA4:AE67 ( talk) 06:18, 24 June 2023 (UTC)