Someone deleted the Russian (and Gamelit) sections on 22 Jan 2019, saying it was from the Russian publishing houses and biased. I put them back as even the name LitRPG as opposed to RPGLit demonstrates the Russian origins of the term for the genre. I believe it is neither biased nor promotional to note the Russian contribution to the evolution of this subject. JimHolden ( talk) 07:21, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Would "Guardians of the Flame" (the Warriors) book series be an early example of this genre? If not, what aspects of LitRPG is it missing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2c6:4900:6609:7587:a9d6:8a3a:6ba4 ( talk) 00:44, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
How can we not include Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson on this page? Seems like a primary example of the genre.
I've been quite affected by a short story by Bill Williams called "The Master's Game", published in Metagaming's The Space Gamer #14. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OwnedByTwoCats ( talk • contribs) 20:44, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Has everybody forgotten about .hack or what FeepingCreature ( talk) 07:40, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
I think we are going to have a struggle on this page to stop authors self-promoting. Already, I think the list under American LitRPG is not neutral, either in the order of the authors or the selection, which is a bit arbitrary. My feeling is it would be best to leave the names out (as in earlier versions) and if the authors become noteworthy enough to have Wikipedia pages they can be linked here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OisinCork123 ( talk • contribs) 20:32, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
American LitRPG section is becoming a mess again. Authors complaining on Facebook about not being on the list are being added despite a dearth of evidence of 'dominating' the genre. Entire article below the lead reads like it was written by a single American LitRPG author before other users added their edits. Article is very American-centric for a genre still actually dominated by Russian authors even in the English language markets. Not a single Russian LitRPG author is named. Suggest deleting the entire section until there is enough content in the article to justify citing specific authors. DeathJester ( talk) 08:25, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
I just boldly removed listings that only had references linking to promotional material, and added some new reviewer references to strengthen the list items that remain. I agree that it might be better to only list books with existing articles, but this is a manageable step. Subvisser5 ( talk) 14:59, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution#Resolving_content_disputes
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Etiquette
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Staying_cool_when_the_editing_gets_hot
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_about_winning
You may discuss reasons here for alteration of the trademark subheading, so as to prevent user content wars between anonymous IPs. Please provide reason for deletion and provide references to strengthen your case. If you believe the content acts as one or multiple of: personal attacks, erroneous and/or serious accusations; then please provide referenced material detailing the proper events. To promote accountability, please sign posts with four tildes (~), like so - LitRPGbooks ( talk) 03:52, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
user:Altenmann has re-introduced this issue. I am uncertain this is wise, as it might lead to a content war. Nor is it necessarily appropriate to the entry. While factually correct, it might be considered out of order in the light of /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Do_not_disrupt_Wikipedia_to_illustrate_a_point and while the newsworthiness of this information might change if a trademark were awarded, I don't think it currently relevant to an encyclopedia entry on LitRPG. Thoughts? JimHolden ( talk) 23:52, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
if a trademark were awarded- Yes it was awarded last year, that's what I wrote, and that's why I wrote it. Of cource, if it were just an application, I would agree this would be a piece of nn trivia, despite all shitthrowing in blogs. - Altenmann >talk 00:55, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
97.122.170.20 look, I understand your concerns. But can you please provide reasons why you think we are acting maliciously as opposed to trying to document an important part of the genre's history? It's a new year, so can we just put past drama behind us and talk about this amicably? - LitRPGbooks ( talk) 18:38, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
I originally put in the GameLit section having read the Guardian article and various forum discussions about what is LitRPG. I think it's relevant to note the debate about the importance or otherwise of character progression in LitRGP. And it is clear from the comment, 'make your own page' that the person consistently removing this paragraph has a sense of ownership of the term LitRPG that is inappropriate to an informed feature on the topic. JimHolden ( talk) 08:34, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
The MMO subcategory of RPGs is relatively small and new. Most of these novels are reflective of other types of RPG games such as the traditional "D&D", card games, offline and non-multiplayer games RPGs, or of RPG's in general, without anything specific to the MMO genre. So why does the definition specify that it's MMO RPG's + Science Fiction?
Wouldn't it be a lot more accurate to just say just RPG + science fiction (or just RPG + fiction... science is just 1 possible theme of these stories/games).
190.53.90.140 (
talk)
17:20, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
Surely Larry Niven's Dream Park (1981) should be listed as the genre originator? It's just as relevant as Otherland, but did exactly the same thing 15 years earlier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.200.189.93 ( talk) 06:27, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
I feel that this needs cited, and isn't entirely accurate to begin with, as SAO initially began as a light novel years before its anime release, and even then, there were far more popular examples in both .hack and log horizon, which both predate SAO's anime release. The former is also a multimedia franchise, and would probably serve as a better example anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maddwaffles ( talk • contribs) 03:33, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
The term is a neologism and its authors insist on the explicit presense of game elements, such as stats, level progression, etc. However I am pretty sure that over time the definition will be de facto expanded, which is being observed even now. For example, much of the flood of Russian fanfics on EVE Online is tagged litrpg, but they just live within the eve world, with all its alien races, pirates, neuroimplants and all, and no explicit game stats. (However some vestiges of rpg may be noticed: the authors are obsessed with listing which implants the hero implanted, which guns each of his new and better spaceship has, how many tonnes of rare ores he churned from asteroids, which goodies he scavenged from the warship graveyard... At first I thought this is but a smartass page-filling trick authors pinch from each other, but now I know better.).
As for the origins, I see a bit of original research in the article and a bit of ignorance of the cited sources, but I hope that dust settles in some 20 years, so I'm not going to fight for wikipurity here, just fixing some real blunders. By the way, the ru:wiki article is even in a sorrier state. - Altenmann >talk 00:40, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
Someone deleted the Russian (and Gamelit) sections on 22 Jan 2019, saying it was from the Russian publishing houses and biased. I put them back as even the name LitRPG as opposed to RPGLit demonstrates the Russian origins of the term for the genre. I believe it is neither biased nor promotional to note the Russian contribution to the evolution of this subject. JimHolden ( talk) 07:21, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
Would "Guardians of the Flame" (the Warriors) book series be an early example of this genre? If not, what aspects of LitRPG is it missing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2c6:4900:6609:7587:a9d6:8a3a:6ba4 ( talk) 00:44, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
How can we not include Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson on this page? Seems like a primary example of the genre.
I've been quite affected by a short story by Bill Williams called "The Master's Game", published in Metagaming's The Space Gamer #14. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OwnedByTwoCats ( talk • contribs) 20:44, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Has everybody forgotten about .hack or what FeepingCreature ( talk) 07:40, 24 June 2018 (UTC)
I think we are going to have a struggle on this page to stop authors self-promoting. Already, I think the list under American LitRPG is not neutral, either in the order of the authors or the selection, which is a bit arbitrary. My feeling is it would be best to leave the names out (as in earlier versions) and if the authors become noteworthy enough to have Wikipedia pages they can be linked here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OisinCork123 ( talk • contribs) 20:32, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
American LitRPG section is becoming a mess again. Authors complaining on Facebook about not being on the list are being added despite a dearth of evidence of 'dominating' the genre. Entire article below the lead reads like it was written by a single American LitRPG author before other users added their edits. Article is very American-centric for a genre still actually dominated by Russian authors even in the English language markets. Not a single Russian LitRPG author is named. Suggest deleting the entire section until there is enough content in the article to justify citing specific authors. DeathJester ( talk) 08:25, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
I just boldly removed listings that only had references linking to promotional material, and added some new reviewer references to strengthen the list items that remain. I agree that it might be better to only list books with existing articles, but this is a manageable step. Subvisser5 ( talk) 14:59, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution#Resolving_content_disputes
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Etiquette
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Staying_cool_when_the_editing_gets_hot
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_about_winning
You may discuss reasons here for alteration of the trademark subheading, so as to prevent user content wars between anonymous IPs. Please provide reason for deletion and provide references to strengthen your case. If you believe the content acts as one or multiple of: personal attacks, erroneous and/or serious accusations; then please provide referenced material detailing the proper events. To promote accountability, please sign posts with four tildes (~), like so - LitRPGbooks ( talk) 03:52, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
user:Altenmann has re-introduced this issue. I am uncertain this is wise, as it might lead to a content war. Nor is it necessarily appropriate to the entry. While factually correct, it might be considered out of order in the light of /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Do_not_disrupt_Wikipedia_to_illustrate_a_point and while the newsworthiness of this information might change if a trademark were awarded, I don't think it currently relevant to an encyclopedia entry on LitRPG. Thoughts? JimHolden ( talk) 23:52, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
if a trademark were awarded- Yes it was awarded last year, that's what I wrote, and that's why I wrote it. Of cource, if it were just an application, I would agree this would be a piece of nn trivia, despite all shitthrowing in blogs. - Altenmann >talk 00:55, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
97.122.170.20 look, I understand your concerns. But can you please provide reasons why you think we are acting maliciously as opposed to trying to document an important part of the genre's history? It's a new year, so can we just put past drama behind us and talk about this amicably? - LitRPGbooks ( talk) 18:38, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
I originally put in the GameLit section having read the Guardian article and various forum discussions about what is LitRPG. I think it's relevant to note the debate about the importance or otherwise of character progression in LitRGP. And it is clear from the comment, 'make your own page' that the person consistently removing this paragraph has a sense of ownership of the term LitRPG that is inappropriate to an informed feature on the topic. JimHolden ( talk) 08:34, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
The MMO subcategory of RPGs is relatively small and new. Most of these novels are reflective of other types of RPG games such as the traditional "D&D", card games, offline and non-multiplayer games RPGs, or of RPG's in general, without anything specific to the MMO genre. So why does the definition specify that it's MMO RPG's + Science Fiction?
Wouldn't it be a lot more accurate to just say just RPG + science fiction (or just RPG + fiction... science is just 1 possible theme of these stories/games).
190.53.90.140 (
talk)
17:20, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
Surely Larry Niven's Dream Park (1981) should be listed as the genre originator? It's just as relevant as Otherland, but did exactly the same thing 15 years earlier. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.200.189.93 ( talk) 06:27, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
I feel that this needs cited, and isn't entirely accurate to begin with, as SAO initially began as a light novel years before its anime release, and even then, there were far more popular examples in both .hack and log horizon, which both predate SAO's anime release. The former is also a multimedia franchise, and would probably serve as a better example anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maddwaffles ( talk • contribs) 03:33, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
The term is a neologism and its authors insist on the explicit presense of game elements, such as stats, level progression, etc. However I am pretty sure that over time the definition will be de facto expanded, which is being observed even now. For example, much of the flood of Russian fanfics on EVE Online is tagged litrpg, but they just live within the eve world, with all its alien races, pirates, neuroimplants and all, and no explicit game stats. (However some vestiges of rpg may be noticed: the authors are obsessed with listing which implants the hero implanted, which guns each of his new and better spaceship has, how many tonnes of rare ores he churned from asteroids, which goodies he scavenged from the warship graveyard... At first I thought this is but a smartass page-filling trick authors pinch from each other, but now I know better.).
As for the origins, I see a bit of original research in the article and a bit of ignorance of the cited sources, but I hope that dust settles in some 20 years, so I'm not going to fight for wikipurity here, just fixing some real blunders. By the way, the ru:wiki article is even in a sorrier state. - Altenmann >talk 00:40, 6 October 2019 (UTC)