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"Arab villages
Four Arab villages located in the Latrun Corridor were destroyed based on the orders of Yitzhak Rabin due to the corridor's strategic location and route to Jerusalem and because of the residents' alleged aiding of Egyptian commandos in their attack on the city of Lod. The residents of the three villages were offered compensation but were not allowed to return.[3]"
There is confusion here over how many Arab villages Rabin ordered to be destroyed and how many had residents who were offered compensatiion. It looks to me as if the 4th has been added in but may not have been part of Rabin's order to demolish etc. Can anyone clear this up. As it is it reads inconsistently. Sam 01:54, 2 April 2010 (UTC) âPreceding unsigned comment added by Samscribe ( talk ⢠contribs)
I think it would be useful if someone just added a sentence where the (approximate) number of Jewish and Palestinian villages detroyed is mentioned. Like introducing the article by "Below is a list of the xxx Jewish and xxx Arab villages depopulated and/or destroyed during the Arab-Israeli conflict,..." âPreceding
unsigned comment added by
82.247.85.103 (
talk)
17:20, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure we really need a separate page on every 300-person village that was destroyed in the war. If we were going to do this for every war, Wikipedia would have literally hundreds of thousands of these pages. We could probably fill up a good 1,000 of them with just the 1915-1922 Turkey-Greece war (which had more Greek refugees than the 1948 war had Palestinian refugees), and certainly we could fill up a good 10,000 with the Hutu-Tutsi fighting in Rwanda. But none of that really seems encyclopedic. -- Delirium 17:44 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)
YES WE DO! -- BL
Agreed. It would be quite useful to the encyclopedia. Sukiari 08:50, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Clarify? Yes, we need a list of every single village destroyed in every single war in history, or no, but we do need them for this particular war? -- Delirium 20:00 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
For every war ofcourse! Btw, we would only add one extra page for each war because ideally all the villages that has been destroyed in all wars would already be in the 'pedia. Details = good, more details = more good. -- BL
Using your "thousand-person rule", it should be okay to have entries for any settlement with 1,000 people, shouldn't it? That would prevent going down to trivial things like houses and trees and so on. I think it's good to have more articles on places in countries other than the US, because those Rambot articles, useful as I think they are, do make the Wikipedia a bit lop-sided in its geographical coverage. As for places that had less than 1,000 people, well, I'm not convinced either way on that one yet... -- Oliver P. 21:22 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
You may be right. But not because of any argument to do with numbers of articles, I don't think. We're not short of space as far as I am aware. The main problem I see is that the more obscure something is, the more difficult it is to verify the information about it. But did you say that the text was identical to that on a website? If so, then don't we have a possible copyright infringement situation? If the material is copyrighted and being used without permission, then the argument is rather academic... Can you provide a link to the website in question? -- Oliver P. 21:44 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
A. Tables look nice. B. It is easier to fill a square in a table than write a sentence. C. There are lots of pages about US towns that have much less than 1000 inhabitants. D. imho, if it can be googled it should be in wikipedia. E. Someone else found it important enough to make a whole site about it www.palestineremembered.com [ [1]] and Marus for a comparsion. BL
So, I'd have to say that the people who died in this war, and the people whose property was seized or destroyed, deserve a presence in the world that witnesses their suffering. I don't think, however, that an encyclopedia is a good place to do that. There's already a memorial Web site out there; this doesn't need to be another one. -- ESP 03:28 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)
See also: list of places with less than ten people. We have articles on some really obscure US backwaters in Wikipedia - based on that precedent we should also have articles on really obscure Middle East backwaters too. Like Hilltop 26. Martin
By clicking "Random Page" lots of times I estimate that about 20% of all articles (maybe 30,000 in total!) are about US towns and counties. In all those which came up in my little trial, nothing of interest ever happened there as far as the article knows. So let's not complain too much about a few hundred articles on places which suffered (for the most part) deliberate destruction. However, I'd urge BL to not get tired of the project until it is done. -- Zero 14:49, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I'm puzzled: what are these "Districts" these villages are organized under? Are they the administrative divisions of Palestine in 1948? They don't match up with the divisions used in List of cities in Israel -- llywrch 19:29, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Then I, for one, would find it helpful if that were somehow made clear in the article. -- llywrch 01:28, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I moved this page from List of destroyed villages during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war because the new title has better grammar. -- Zero 01:47, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Agree with that. A title which makes it clear that they were destroyed and/or depopulated would be even better since I'm not sure depopulation without destruction actually counts as "destroying". And not all localities were villages, some were towns and cities to like Lydda and Ramle. But another move would probably break lots of links. BL 12:10, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Actually "depopulated" is a good idea. -- Zero 12:27, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Concerning Jewish localities: there were a few destroyed in 1948 such as the kibbutzim in the Etzion Bloc. Rather than excluding them from this page, they ought to be listed under a separate heading. -- Zero 23:49, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I would agree with the very old commentary by Zero on this page. Either somebody should add (I don't think I'm qualified to do this) the Jewish communities destroyed or change the title of the article. It does give the impression that the only villages destroyed were arabs. While they were indeed the majority, I believe it is grossly POV-ish to avoid mentioning the Jewish communities that suffered the same destiny. Imho, either we do it right or we don't at all.
Moved from List of villages destroyed during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war to List of villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Reason is that many, if not most of these, were not actually destroyed. Fixing redirects now. -- Ynhockey || Talk 09:03, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm concerned about the quality of sources used for this article, if it is indeed a list copied from www.palestineremembered.com, which is a propaganda website that does not meet Wikipedia's reliable sources requirements. Are there other any reliable sources for these claims? Jayjg (talk) 09:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, it really needs to be cleaned up. In addition, most of the place names linked to in this article appear to be CopyVios of that propaganda site, which is a double no-no. Jayjg (talk) 19:33, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Until now I had not looked much at Khalidi's "All that Remains" (1992). It appears to be a very meticulous piece of research. I'll briefly explain his methodology. He started with two British village lists from 1945 and investigated their (few) differences. Then he eliminated those not inside the green line. Then he eliminated those which Israeli census data showed to have not been depopulated during the 1948 or in its immediate aftermath. Depopulation had to be complete, but it was not required that the buildings be destroyed. Then every site was visited except for a few on closed military reservations. Where possible old local residents were interviewed. It was required that the locality had a separate identity (such as its own name), had a core of permanent buildings (bedouin encampments and the like were excluded even though some were quite large), and was occupied by Arabs on the eve of the 1948 war. Then he investigated all differences between his list and 6 previous lists (some shorter and some longer). There is an appendix listing all the differences. Nothing is perfect but it would hard to imagine a list more authoritative than this. Comparing his list to our page, I see about half a dozen discrepancies which I will now correct. I also looked at the changes previously made by Uriber and Ynhockey and agree with them all (but see Talk:Machsom Watch concerning Ajanjul and Bayt Nuba). -- Zero 10:30, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Entries which are red links must be supplied with at least external references, for wikipedia:Verifiability purposes. Otherwise I may add an unknown village from Iran and no one will notice. Mukadderat 16:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Robin Hood 1212 16:02, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi all. I have been working on the Waste management section and I spend some time working at the Hiriya site outside Tel Aviv. I am reliably informed the dump gets it's name from a village "Al-Hiriya" that was located on the site to the south of Ramat Gan. Perhaps you would like to include this on your list. I am not certain which place it would fall into. -- Alex 11:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Tarbikha is correct. It was close to the Lebanese border. -- Zero talk 10:46, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I have linked al-Maliha (in the Jerusalem district) to Malha ...as I believe they are the same...if I´m wrong, then please correct me. Regards, Huldra 03:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Update: according to http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jerusalem/al-Maliha/index.html, then the present "Israeli settlements on town lands" are "Manachat and Israeli Jerusalem neighborhood of Ramat Daniya". I assume the first is indeed Manahat, but does anybody know if Ramot is "Ramat Daniya"? Regards, Huldra 09:34, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
He is not a mainstream scholar. His book claims that European Jews are Khazars, among other falsified claims.-- Urthogie 17:46, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I must admit this list seems legit then. One thing I'd suggest be added is the population of these villages, and the date of depopulation.-- Urthogie 20:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Glad we are agreed on this. Btw, the section "Sources and Checking" above has a brief description of how Khalidi compiled his list. -- Zero talk 04:46, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
There are a number of villages that were depopulated by the Israeli authorities after November 1948. I once tried to include a couple of entries before realizing this list was restricted to the war itself. "The 1948 war was not the only cycle of ethnic cleansing, between October 1948 to November 1949, the Israeli army evacuated the villages of al-Safsaf, Iqrit, Kufr Biram, Kufr 'Anan, Khasas, Jau'neh, Qayttiyeh, al-Ghabasiyya, al-Majdal, and al-Battat and later seized all of their properties. In 1951 the Israeli army evacuated 13 villages in the triangle area and seized their properties." [2]
Should we create a new list and link it to the bottom of this article, or expand the list here by adding a sub-section and retitling? Some examples of villages that would be included are:
5 November 1948Â :
Aqrat
5 November 1948Â : Rama
15 November 1948Â :
Kfar Birim
1949Â :
Hasas or
Khasas
4 February 1949Â : Anan or
Kfar Anan
28 February 1949Â :
Kfar Yasif
5 June 1949Â :
Hisam,
Qatiya and
Jauneh (or
Yanuh)
24 January 1950Â :
Ghabisiya
March 1950Â :
Batat (or
Battat)
17 August 1950Â :
Majdal (now Majdal Askhkelon)
February 1951Â : 13 Arab villages in
Wadi Ara
17 November 1951Â :
Buwaishat or (
Khirbet Buweishat)
September 1953Â :
Umm al-Faraj
We have to standardize and check the spelling against existing articles. The source for these listings is Sabri Jiryis, The Arabs in Israel (1968). Tiamut 09:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Three comments: (1) Umm al-Faraj is already listed, though the 1953 date suggests there is more to the story than that article indicates. (2) al-Majdal is quite well covered in Ashkelon. (3) Kfar Yasif was not permanently depopulated and still exists. -- Zero talk 01:11, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
That sounds like a good suggestion Zero. About Umm al-Faraj, Jiryis states on page 58 of his book that in September 1953, "the inhabitants of Umm al-Faraj (near Nahariya) were expelled from their village, which was blown up immediately afterwards." About Kfar Yasif, he says on page 57 that on "28 February 1949, 700 refugees were expelled from the village of Kfar Yasif, where they had taken refuge during the hostilities, after leaving their own villages not far away in the Galilee. Most of them were put into trucks and driven to the front lines, where they were forced to cross the frontier." If those expelled were refugees from other villages and not the inhabitants of the town themselves, that would explain why the town still exists today. I should have read more carefully. That information can be put into the article itself and the town need not be listed here. Tiamut 09:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Is this Arab es-Subeih? Please give a source for new localities. The base list is from Walid Khalidi. -- Zero talk 10:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
User Abnn and myself ( Al Ameer son) have come up with the consideration (not complete decision) of re-naming the article to List of villages depopulated during the Arab-Israeli conflict. This would include the three villages depopulated in the West Bank ( Imwas, Yalo, Bayt Nuba) as well as the villages in the Golan Heights ( Fiq, Kafr Harb, El-Al, Jalabina, Ashmora, Tel Hilal, Dardara, Wasit, Banias, Rawiya, Darbashiya, Khushniya, Za'aura, and still more) during the Six-Day War. Your opinions
P.S. Abnn and I only briefly discussed the West Bank villages. Al Ameer son
Why was it decided not to include cities with large Arab populations? Safed itself comes to mind, among others. nadav ( talk) 05:35, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
These should definitely not be included. First of all, they do not meet the main criteria of the article set forth by the title, namely the word depopulated, which they were not. Remember that this article isn't about depopulation of just Arabs (which would be inherently biased) and includes Jewish villages as well. Second of all, the cases of mixed cities (like Safed, Haifa, Jaffa, Lod and Ramla) are inherently different from Arab-only or Jewish-only villages, because in these cities infighting took place and the 'opposing' population was inherently hostile therefore they were expelled out of the necessities of war (I'm sure that most of the passive civilians who left were not expelled but fled, because what non-combatant can live with constant shelling on their residence?), and their places were taken by other civilians from the opposing side, therefore they were not depopulated. -- Ynhockey ( Talk) 16:54, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
There is no objective definition of "expelled by force" and too many boundary cases, so that would be a very bad idea for a criterion. It ought to be enough that a place had a significant population before 1948 that was absent after 1949; details can go in separate articles if they are interesting enough and good sources are available. I'd like to ask one thing though: the main list on this page was painstakingly synched with the best summary source (Walid Khalidi); please make additions like city quarters in a separate section so that the sourcing is not lost. -- Zero talk 08:47, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't remember clearly, but wasn't Mishmar Hayarden re-established only about a year after it was destroyed? If so, I'm not sure it belongs here. -- Zero talk 14:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
The article's contents and templates are all jumbled up, can some one fix that please -- Al Ameer son 12:45 31 May, 2007 (UTC)
I added the source of what I wrote on the Six-Day War section of the article, and expanded the section a little. I only posted this here in the discussion because I forgot to in the brief edit summary. -- Al Ameer son 17:30, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
The village of Atlit has been removed from this list, apparently on the basis that "it was treated as part of the same town as jewish atlit. a town which was depopulated from just arab residents doesn't count". It must be a great consolation to those who were ethnically cleansed to know their case doesn't count because of them being Arabs. PR talk 16:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I have removed the sections about Metula and Afula, which were results of legal land purchases and therefore clearly not in the framework of the Arab-Israeli conflict. There was no political driving force behind the depopulation of the villages, and they are not relevant to this list. -- Ynhockey ( Talk) 22:50, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
I've been asked on my page to comment. In my own experience I have never seen Ynhockey hold to ransom well documented, reliably sourced material from âmyâ side of the world, unlike many others around here. He plays a tenacious game with the puck and stick, but within the rules. If hardball upsets you, play softball, elsewhere. So, PR, stick to concrete edits, and keep out of extensive remonstrative argumentation. I told you, further, a year ago why von Kressenstein's remarks are not germane to this, though I won't waste my time digging up a diff. Secondly, you do have a bad habit of making allusions to books over talk pages, instead of concretely harvesting the evidence in those books for specific article edits. You're not going to convince your adversaries, or anyone in fact, by arguing the philosophy of history here. On the other hand, Ceedjee's remarks on the terminology are spot on, and I do not note any intelligent reply to his observations. Ynhockey was wrong. To confuse endlessly 'Jews' with 'Zionists' is a retroactive historical perspective that tries, politically, to mix two realities, in part overlapping, but distinct, in order to conflate totally the cause of political Zionism with the history of what was, for millenia, an apolitical Judaism, and shows a lamentable ignorance, as PR argues, of the complexities of the history of Zionism and the Jewish people throughout modernity down to the foundation of Israel.
A third point. Ynhockey. I think you completely undercut otherwise reasonable grounds for your request several days ago to PR that personal views and soapboxing not waste our time on talk pages by your remark on 'Normal Finkelstein's racist book'. I don't usually cite wiki rules ( WP:BLP), but here you have violated several, apart from the stupid errancy of the remark, which is simply prejudice. I have consistently asked PR to stop posturing on talk pages, to stick to practical edits on-page, with a minimum of comment when challenged, but your having made an ill-informed, erroneous, and venomous remark like that was not conducive to rational discussion, particularly when the scholar in question has been subject to an infamously destructive piece of political lobbying to deprive him of his livelihood. It's not in your style, I hope you drop it. Thank you. Nishidani ( talk) 10:28, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone? The first was abandoned for a year beore the residents returned. Is that depopulation? The second was re-established in 1977. The third refers to only a specific quarter of the city and not the city in its entirety. The fourth and fifth also abandoned for a year only, before the residents returned.
Is it fair to claim that these are villages that were permanently depopulated? Because that's what depopulation as used in this article means, at least for the over 400 Palestinian villages named here. That they were never re-established. I am intending to remove these entries, so those with a compelling counter-argument are asked to present it here. Tiamut talk 18:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Recently the article was split into another one discussing only Arab villages during the 1948 ArabâIsraeli War. I believe this is a violation of WP:POVFORK because it's a "separate article treating the same subject" and there was no WP:SIZE issues with the original list. Maybe if the 1948 list is converted into prose, which is bound to be enormous, then it would need a split only per WP:SIZE. Otherwise there's no reason to do it. The list was okay as it stood, and there was no reason to split it. Please share your thoughts. â Ynhockey ( Talk) 06:41, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
We're swerved a little off-topic here. Who said anything about a template? The point is, the new article, List of Arab towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestine War, is basically about Arab villages depopulated by the IDF in the war. In other words, it could be titled 'List of Arab villages depopulated by Israelis during the 1948 Palestine War'. How is that not a POV fork? What about Israeli villages depopulated by Arabs during the same war? Again, I'm not talking about non-1948 localities, which were added by other users and I have no opinion on keeping/removing those. â Ynhockey ( Talk) 16:44, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
This section is a workshop for Arab villages depopulated during the early Zionist period up to about 1930. It is quite hard to find precise information about this topic.
The following are land purchases from the Sursock, Farah, Ra'is, Atala, and Tueini families (Stein, Land Question in Palestine, p60). Most are in the Jezreel Valley, some further north. The first two might involve multiple villages and need to be expanded. Each needs individual checking that they were depopulated. Please add other possibilities, and strike out resolved cases. Zero talk 05:45, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
A lot of detail appears in the (hostile) book "The Claim of Dispossession" by Arieh Avneri. Some villages to consider: Zero talk 11:20, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Avneri says there is a list in the report of the Shaw Commission, vol II, p1074, exhibit 71. I'll get it. Zero talk 11:20, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
*Haneifa This is Knayfis/Khuneifis, etc.
There are a lot of structures in Peterson, Andrew (2002). A Gazetteer of Buildings in Muslim Palestine: Volume I (British Academy Monographs in Archaeology). Oxford University Press. ISBNÂ 9780197270110. ..which belongs to villages depopulated long before 1948. Now, not all of these villages were depopulated because of the "Arab-Israeli conflict" (even broadly interpreted) ...but as we (at least not I!) do not know *why* they were depopulated, I just put the info here, as I find them, Huldra ( talk) 18:15, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
By the way, sources in the know that I've spoken to indicate that as many as 70 villages were depopulated prior to 1948, most via land purchases, but a couple also from disease or in earthquakes. We have some way to go before reaching that figure. Tiamut talk 18:11, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Not to rain on everyone's parade, but do places that were peacefully dismantled due to change of ownership of the land really belong in an article about villages that were "depopulated" during the "conflict"? I mean, Sharona was "depopulated" in 1928 (everyone left), should we add that as well? Putting this stuff in an article with "conflict" in its title implies the places were "depopulated" due to violence or a threat thereof stemming from said "conflict", don't you think? No More Mr Nice Guy ( talk) 20:27, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
The report of the Shaw Commission on page 117, says that sales to Jewish land organizations in the Vale of Esdraelon (equal to Jezreel Valley for this purpose) from the Sursocks had amounted to more than 200,000 dunams during the mandate period so far. Twenty-two villages were included. "After the sales, the Arab cultivators, having received compensation, left all these villages with the exception of Mahloul." The villages are not listed in the Report (I think), but the table on the left appears on page 1074 of the Minutes of Evidence. The villages listed are: Tel-el-Adas, Jalud and Tel-el-Fer, Mahloul, Sofsafe-Ain-Sheika, Ain-Beida and Mokbey, Jinjar, Rob-el-Nasreh, Afule, Jabata, Kneifis, Two-thirds of Sulem, Jeida, Tel-el-Shemmam, Hartieh, Sheikh-Breik, Harbaj, Kiskis and Tabon, Jedro, Kordaneh, Kefr Etta, Majdal. (It isn't clear how to count 22.) Zero talk 10:04, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Here is a 1925 Zionist map of the Jezreel holdings, showing many of the Arab villages. Zero talk 13:01, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was consensus against move as inaccurate.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 13:35, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
List of villages depopulated during the ArabâIsraeli conflict â List of villages destroyed by Israel during the Arab-Israeli conflict â This need to be rename to List of villages destroyed by Israel during the Arab-Israeli conflict because it more factual. Depopulate be Pro-Israel POV in attempt to de emphasize destruction. Other discussion on article name here [20] Ani medjool ( talk) 23:33, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I think both articles should be deleted because they contribute nothing but conflict. There is no way these articles can be made NPOV and their existence is dubious (what other conflict has a list of "depopulated" villages?). Further, there is very little sourcing on both pages and there is still much debate over who did what, where and when. It is also unclear if the articles refer to "forced" depopulation or if the populations merely fled or just left. Metallurgist ( talk) 00:44, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your edits, but you must provide a source for your claim. Your drive-by taggings are therefore removed. We already have a source claiming that these places were depopulated before 1948. As already clear from the article the historical record may not be as straightforward as we would hope. Any additional information on this subject is welcome. Please feel free to contribute. Jokkmokks-Goran ( talk) 22:05, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
So the name has been changed. We now have parity because every Jewish or Israeli illage settlement that has been depopulated is registered on the page, while the over 400 Palestinian villages destroyed as a result of 1948 are 'evaporated', all being shifted to a main page. Thus we have the counter-factual appearance of balanced losses. There is not even a selection of the major villages that have wikilinked articles. Very nice. Nishidani ( talk) 09:07, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Gilabrand is repeatedly deleting the list of villages depopulated pre-1948 as a result of the Zionist immigration. The only justification I can think of is that "Arab-Israeli conflict" only started when Israel started. Pedantically that is true, but it isn't the usual way the phrase is used. In fact I wonder if there is any book at all on "the Arab-Israeli conflict" that doesn't start in 1882 or earlier. At the very most, this is a problem with the page title. There is no reason whatever that Wikipedia should not list those villages. Choices: (1) a separate article, with a link to it in this article. (2) in this article with a title change to cover it. (3) in this article with the present title. Please give your opinions. I prefer (3). Zero talk 11:24, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
2.) Some villages that were Muslim pre-1948 ceased to exist when they were sold by the owners of the land to Jews. Under Ottoman and British law such sales were legal. Other villages may have ceased to exist pre-1948 for other reasons. The reasons need to be provided and sources. 3.) Current language: "List of Palestinian villages uprooted before 1948 with the time of expulsion" is highly un-neutral. I am attempting more neutral language. ShulMaven ( talk) 21:36, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
{{ multiple issues}}: This article is a list that I have tagged and the issue is that most of the villages are sourced to a website and, well, anybody can create a website. Each village needs to be sourced to establish: 1.) that such a village existed. 2.) why did the villagers leave (i.e., was the land sold. when? by whom? to whom?) 3.) If there is an assertion that a Muslim / Arab / Druze village was replaced by a Jewish one, that claim needs ot be sourced. Sources, people sources. You can't just go listing stuff without reliable sources. ShulMaven ( talk) 22:09, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Overwhelmingly, the pre-1948 events on this page regarding Arab villages are sales. Legal sales to new owners. With the Arab tenants legally evicted. There was no "Arab-Israeli conflict" pre-1948, there were struggles among Ottoman, then British overlords, Greek Christians, Arab Christians, Druze, Zionists, and Arab Muslims - who also sometimes struggled violently among themselves. But pre-1948 these struggles were conducted within the urisdiciton of 2 successive Imperial regimes. It is incorrect and misleading to group - as is done here - the depopulation of a a Druze village in the 1890s by Ottoman officials in the context of a Druze uprising, or the sale of a Muslim Arab village by a Lebanese Christian to a Jewish land agency in the 1920s together under the rubric of "Israeli-Arab Conflict. i move that this article be split in 2 at 1948. ShulMaven ( talk) 02:51, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
I removed citation needed from "Shatah, unknown date ( Beit HaShita)", and a couple of others. However, Debresser reintroduced the cn-tags. I would argue that it is completely unnecessary...read the story of Beit HaShita, and it is all there. It is basically impossible to "cite", as it was emptied of its Palestinian population over a period of time.....same as with Afula, Kiryat Ata, etc. The Elyashiv data is also now in the article (will be updated with the 1945 data, eventually) So why on earth put cn-tags? Seriously, is this reasonable? Huldra ( talk) 22:42, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Should not Mulebbis be here, somewhere? Huldra ( talk) 20:56, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
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Propose to merge
Population displacements in Israel after 1948 ->
List of villages depopulated during the ArabâIsraeli conflict
The source article is an overlapping topic of merely 4.6kb and is not likely to grow. Better be merged here.
GreyShark (
dibra)
09:43, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"Zamarin, unknown date (Zichron Yaacov)" -- the date is 1882, ref:
https://books.google.com/books?id=alVBAAAAIAAJ&q=1882 quote: 'Zamarin, near Haifa.' Zamarin was the Arab name of the town. When the first Jewish settlers came there, in 1882, they gave it a name of their own, Zichron Yaakov, meaning 'In memory of Jacob', in honour of the Baron Rothschild who had helped to found the settlement.
Please also amend the name to Zikhron Ya'akov, according to WP:HEBREW. -- Crash48 ( talk) 17:14, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
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"Arab villages
Four Arab villages located in the Latrun Corridor were destroyed based on the orders of Yitzhak Rabin due to the corridor's strategic location and route to Jerusalem and because of the residents' alleged aiding of Egyptian commandos in their attack on the city of Lod. The residents of the three villages were offered compensation but were not allowed to return.[3]"
There is confusion here over how many Arab villages Rabin ordered to be destroyed and how many had residents who were offered compensatiion. It looks to me as if the 4th has been added in but may not have been part of Rabin's order to demolish etc. Can anyone clear this up. As it is it reads inconsistently. Sam 01:54, 2 April 2010 (UTC) âPreceding unsigned comment added by Samscribe ( talk ⢠contribs)
I think it would be useful if someone just added a sentence where the (approximate) number of Jewish and Palestinian villages detroyed is mentioned. Like introducing the article by "Below is a list of the xxx Jewish and xxx Arab villages depopulated and/or destroyed during the Arab-Israeli conflict,..." âPreceding
unsigned comment added by
82.247.85.103 (
talk)
17:20, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure we really need a separate page on every 300-person village that was destroyed in the war. If we were going to do this for every war, Wikipedia would have literally hundreds of thousands of these pages. We could probably fill up a good 1,000 of them with just the 1915-1922 Turkey-Greece war (which had more Greek refugees than the 1948 war had Palestinian refugees), and certainly we could fill up a good 10,000 with the Hutu-Tutsi fighting in Rwanda. But none of that really seems encyclopedic. -- Delirium 17:44 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)
YES WE DO! -- BL
Agreed. It would be quite useful to the encyclopedia. Sukiari 08:50, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Clarify? Yes, we need a list of every single village destroyed in every single war in history, or no, but we do need them for this particular war? -- Delirium 20:00 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
For every war ofcourse! Btw, we would only add one extra page for each war because ideally all the villages that has been destroyed in all wars would already be in the 'pedia. Details = good, more details = more good. -- BL
Using your "thousand-person rule", it should be okay to have entries for any settlement with 1,000 people, shouldn't it? That would prevent going down to trivial things like houses and trees and so on. I think it's good to have more articles on places in countries other than the US, because those Rambot articles, useful as I think they are, do make the Wikipedia a bit lop-sided in its geographical coverage. As for places that had less than 1,000 people, well, I'm not convinced either way on that one yet... -- Oliver P. 21:22 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
You may be right. But not because of any argument to do with numbers of articles, I don't think. We're not short of space as far as I am aware. The main problem I see is that the more obscure something is, the more difficult it is to verify the information about it. But did you say that the text was identical to that on a website? If so, then don't we have a possible copyright infringement situation? If the material is copyrighted and being used without permission, then the argument is rather academic... Can you provide a link to the website in question? -- Oliver P. 21:44 15 Jul 2003 (UTC)
A. Tables look nice. B. It is easier to fill a square in a table than write a sentence. C. There are lots of pages about US towns that have much less than 1000 inhabitants. D. imho, if it can be googled it should be in wikipedia. E. Someone else found it important enough to make a whole site about it www.palestineremembered.com [ [1]] and Marus for a comparsion. BL
So, I'd have to say that the people who died in this war, and the people whose property was seized or destroyed, deserve a presence in the world that witnesses their suffering. I don't think, however, that an encyclopedia is a good place to do that. There's already a memorial Web site out there; this doesn't need to be another one. -- ESP 03:28 16 Jul 2003 (UTC)
See also: list of places with less than ten people. We have articles on some really obscure US backwaters in Wikipedia - based on that precedent we should also have articles on really obscure Middle East backwaters too. Like Hilltop 26. Martin
By clicking "Random Page" lots of times I estimate that about 20% of all articles (maybe 30,000 in total!) are about US towns and counties. In all those which came up in my little trial, nothing of interest ever happened there as far as the article knows. So let's not complain too much about a few hundred articles on places which suffered (for the most part) deliberate destruction. However, I'd urge BL to not get tired of the project until it is done. -- Zero 14:49, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)
I'm puzzled: what are these "Districts" these villages are organized under? Are they the administrative divisions of Palestine in 1948? They don't match up with the divisions used in List of cities in Israel -- llywrch 19:29, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Then I, for one, would find it helpful if that were somehow made clear in the article. -- llywrch 01:28, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I moved this page from List of destroyed villages during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war because the new title has better grammar. -- Zero 01:47, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Agree with that. A title which makes it clear that they were destroyed and/or depopulated would be even better since I'm not sure depopulation without destruction actually counts as "destroying". And not all localities were villages, some were towns and cities to like Lydda and Ramle. But another move would probably break lots of links. BL 12:10, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Actually "depopulated" is a good idea. -- Zero 12:27, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Concerning Jewish localities: there were a few destroyed in 1948 such as the kibbutzim in the Etzion Bloc. Rather than excluding them from this page, they ought to be listed under a separate heading. -- Zero 23:49, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I would agree with the very old commentary by Zero on this page. Either somebody should add (I don't think I'm qualified to do this) the Jewish communities destroyed or change the title of the article. It does give the impression that the only villages destroyed were arabs. While they were indeed the majority, I believe it is grossly POV-ish to avoid mentioning the Jewish communities that suffered the same destiny. Imho, either we do it right or we don't at all.
Moved from List of villages destroyed during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war to List of villages depopulated during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. Reason is that many, if not most of these, were not actually destroyed. Fixing redirects now. -- Ynhockey || Talk 09:03, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I'm concerned about the quality of sources used for this article, if it is indeed a list copied from www.palestineremembered.com, which is a propaganda website that does not meet Wikipedia's reliable sources requirements. Are there other any reliable sources for these claims? Jayjg (talk) 09:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, it really needs to be cleaned up. In addition, most of the place names linked to in this article appear to be CopyVios of that propaganda site, which is a double no-no. Jayjg (talk) 19:33, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Until now I had not looked much at Khalidi's "All that Remains" (1992). It appears to be a very meticulous piece of research. I'll briefly explain his methodology. He started with two British village lists from 1945 and investigated their (few) differences. Then he eliminated those not inside the green line. Then he eliminated those which Israeli census data showed to have not been depopulated during the 1948 or in its immediate aftermath. Depopulation had to be complete, but it was not required that the buildings be destroyed. Then every site was visited except for a few on closed military reservations. Where possible old local residents were interviewed. It was required that the locality had a separate identity (such as its own name), had a core of permanent buildings (bedouin encampments and the like were excluded even though some were quite large), and was occupied by Arabs on the eve of the 1948 war. Then he investigated all differences between his list and 6 previous lists (some shorter and some longer). There is an appendix listing all the differences. Nothing is perfect but it would hard to imagine a list more authoritative than this. Comparing his list to our page, I see about half a dozen discrepancies which I will now correct. I also looked at the changes previously made by Uriber and Ynhockey and agree with them all (but see Talk:Machsom Watch concerning Ajanjul and Bayt Nuba). -- Zero 10:30, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Entries which are red links must be supplied with at least external references, for wikipedia:Verifiability purposes. Otherwise I may add an unknown village from Iran and no one will notice. Mukadderat 16:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Robin Hood 1212 16:02, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi all. I have been working on the Waste management section and I spend some time working at the Hiriya site outside Tel Aviv. I am reliably informed the dump gets it's name from a village "Al-Hiriya" that was located on the site to the south of Ramat Gan. Perhaps you would like to include this on your list. I am not certain which place it would fall into. -- Alex 11:39, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Tarbikha is correct. It was close to the Lebanese border. -- Zero talk 10:46, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I have linked al-Maliha (in the Jerusalem district) to Malha ...as I believe they are the same...if I´m wrong, then please correct me. Regards, Huldra 03:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Update: according to http://www.palestineremembered.com/Jerusalem/al-Maliha/index.html, then the present "Israeli settlements on town lands" are "Manachat and Israeli Jerusalem neighborhood of Ramat Daniya". I assume the first is indeed Manahat, but does anybody know if Ramot is "Ramat Daniya"? Regards, Huldra 09:34, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
He is not a mainstream scholar. His book claims that European Jews are Khazars, among other falsified claims.-- Urthogie 17:46, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I must admit this list seems legit then. One thing I'd suggest be added is the population of these villages, and the date of depopulation.-- Urthogie 20:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Glad we are agreed on this. Btw, the section "Sources and Checking" above has a brief description of how Khalidi compiled his list. -- Zero talk 04:46, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
There are a number of villages that were depopulated by the Israeli authorities after November 1948. I once tried to include a couple of entries before realizing this list was restricted to the war itself. "The 1948 war was not the only cycle of ethnic cleansing, between October 1948 to November 1949, the Israeli army evacuated the villages of al-Safsaf, Iqrit, Kufr Biram, Kufr 'Anan, Khasas, Jau'neh, Qayttiyeh, al-Ghabasiyya, al-Majdal, and al-Battat and later seized all of their properties. In 1951 the Israeli army evacuated 13 villages in the triangle area and seized their properties." [2]
Should we create a new list and link it to the bottom of this article, or expand the list here by adding a sub-section and retitling? Some examples of villages that would be included are:
5 November 1948Â :
Aqrat
5 November 1948Â : Rama
15 November 1948Â :
Kfar Birim
1949Â :
Hasas or
Khasas
4 February 1949Â : Anan or
Kfar Anan
28 February 1949Â :
Kfar Yasif
5 June 1949Â :
Hisam,
Qatiya and
Jauneh (or
Yanuh)
24 January 1950Â :
Ghabisiya
March 1950Â :
Batat (or
Battat)
17 August 1950Â :
Majdal (now Majdal Askhkelon)
February 1951Â : 13 Arab villages in
Wadi Ara
17 November 1951Â :
Buwaishat or (
Khirbet Buweishat)
September 1953Â :
Umm al-Faraj
We have to standardize and check the spelling against existing articles. The source for these listings is Sabri Jiryis, The Arabs in Israel (1968). Tiamut 09:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Three comments: (1) Umm al-Faraj is already listed, though the 1953 date suggests there is more to the story than that article indicates. (2) al-Majdal is quite well covered in Ashkelon. (3) Kfar Yasif was not permanently depopulated and still exists. -- Zero talk 01:11, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
That sounds like a good suggestion Zero. About Umm al-Faraj, Jiryis states on page 58 of his book that in September 1953, "the inhabitants of Umm al-Faraj (near Nahariya) were expelled from their village, which was blown up immediately afterwards." About Kfar Yasif, he says on page 57 that on "28 February 1949, 700 refugees were expelled from the village of Kfar Yasif, where they had taken refuge during the hostilities, after leaving their own villages not far away in the Galilee. Most of them were put into trucks and driven to the front lines, where they were forced to cross the frontier." If those expelled were refugees from other villages and not the inhabitants of the town themselves, that would explain why the town still exists today. I should have read more carefully. That information can be put into the article itself and the town need not be listed here. Tiamut 09:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Is this Arab es-Subeih? Please give a source for new localities. The base list is from Walid Khalidi. -- Zero talk 10:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
User Abnn and myself ( Al Ameer son) have come up with the consideration (not complete decision) of re-naming the article to List of villages depopulated during the Arab-Israeli conflict. This would include the three villages depopulated in the West Bank ( Imwas, Yalo, Bayt Nuba) as well as the villages in the Golan Heights ( Fiq, Kafr Harb, El-Al, Jalabina, Ashmora, Tel Hilal, Dardara, Wasit, Banias, Rawiya, Darbashiya, Khushniya, Za'aura, and still more) during the Six-Day War. Your opinions
P.S. Abnn and I only briefly discussed the West Bank villages. Al Ameer son
Why was it decided not to include cities with large Arab populations? Safed itself comes to mind, among others. nadav ( talk) 05:35, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
These should definitely not be included. First of all, they do not meet the main criteria of the article set forth by the title, namely the word depopulated, which they were not. Remember that this article isn't about depopulation of just Arabs (which would be inherently biased) and includes Jewish villages as well. Second of all, the cases of mixed cities (like Safed, Haifa, Jaffa, Lod and Ramla) are inherently different from Arab-only or Jewish-only villages, because in these cities infighting took place and the 'opposing' population was inherently hostile therefore they were expelled out of the necessities of war (I'm sure that most of the passive civilians who left were not expelled but fled, because what non-combatant can live with constant shelling on their residence?), and their places were taken by other civilians from the opposing side, therefore they were not depopulated. -- Ynhockey ( Talk) 16:54, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
There is no objective definition of "expelled by force" and too many boundary cases, so that would be a very bad idea for a criterion. It ought to be enough that a place had a significant population before 1948 that was absent after 1949; details can go in separate articles if they are interesting enough and good sources are available. I'd like to ask one thing though: the main list on this page was painstakingly synched with the best summary source (Walid Khalidi); please make additions like city quarters in a separate section so that the sourcing is not lost. -- Zero talk 08:47, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't remember clearly, but wasn't Mishmar Hayarden re-established only about a year after it was destroyed? If so, I'm not sure it belongs here. -- Zero talk 14:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
The article's contents and templates are all jumbled up, can some one fix that please -- Al Ameer son 12:45 31 May, 2007 (UTC)
I added the source of what I wrote on the Six-Day War section of the article, and expanded the section a little. I only posted this here in the discussion because I forgot to in the brief edit summary. -- Al Ameer son 17:30, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
The village of Atlit has been removed from this list, apparently on the basis that "it was treated as part of the same town as jewish atlit. a town which was depopulated from just arab residents doesn't count". It must be a great consolation to those who were ethnically cleansed to know their case doesn't count because of them being Arabs. PR talk 16:50, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I have removed the sections about Metula and Afula, which were results of legal land purchases and therefore clearly not in the framework of the Arab-Israeli conflict. There was no political driving force behind the depopulation of the villages, and they are not relevant to this list. -- Ynhockey ( Talk) 22:50, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
I've been asked on my page to comment. In my own experience I have never seen Ynhockey hold to ransom well documented, reliably sourced material from âmyâ side of the world, unlike many others around here. He plays a tenacious game with the puck and stick, but within the rules. If hardball upsets you, play softball, elsewhere. So, PR, stick to concrete edits, and keep out of extensive remonstrative argumentation. I told you, further, a year ago why von Kressenstein's remarks are not germane to this, though I won't waste my time digging up a diff. Secondly, you do have a bad habit of making allusions to books over talk pages, instead of concretely harvesting the evidence in those books for specific article edits. You're not going to convince your adversaries, or anyone in fact, by arguing the philosophy of history here. On the other hand, Ceedjee's remarks on the terminology are spot on, and I do not note any intelligent reply to his observations. Ynhockey was wrong. To confuse endlessly 'Jews' with 'Zionists' is a retroactive historical perspective that tries, politically, to mix two realities, in part overlapping, but distinct, in order to conflate totally the cause of political Zionism with the history of what was, for millenia, an apolitical Judaism, and shows a lamentable ignorance, as PR argues, of the complexities of the history of Zionism and the Jewish people throughout modernity down to the foundation of Israel.
A third point. Ynhockey. I think you completely undercut otherwise reasonable grounds for your request several days ago to PR that personal views and soapboxing not waste our time on talk pages by your remark on 'Normal Finkelstein's racist book'. I don't usually cite wiki rules ( WP:BLP), but here you have violated several, apart from the stupid errancy of the remark, which is simply prejudice. I have consistently asked PR to stop posturing on talk pages, to stick to practical edits on-page, with a minimum of comment when challenged, but your having made an ill-informed, erroneous, and venomous remark like that was not conducive to rational discussion, particularly when the scholar in question has been subject to an infamously destructive piece of political lobbying to deprive him of his livelihood. It's not in your style, I hope you drop it. Thank you. Nishidani ( talk) 10:28, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone? The first was abandoned for a year beore the residents returned. Is that depopulation? The second was re-established in 1977. The third refers to only a specific quarter of the city and not the city in its entirety. The fourth and fifth also abandoned for a year only, before the residents returned.
Is it fair to claim that these are villages that were permanently depopulated? Because that's what depopulation as used in this article means, at least for the over 400 Palestinian villages named here. That they were never re-established. I am intending to remove these entries, so those with a compelling counter-argument are asked to present it here. Tiamut talk 18:03, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Recently the article was split into another one discussing only Arab villages during the 1948 ArabâIsraeli War. I believe this is a violation of WP:POVFORK because it's a "separate article treating the same subject" and there was no WP:SIZE issues with the original list. Maybe if the 1948 list is converted into prose, which is bound to be enormous, then it would need a split only per WP:SIZE. Otherwise there's no reason to do it. The list was okay as it stood, and there was no reason to split it. Please share your thoughts. â Ynhockey ( Talk) 06:41, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
We're swerved a little off-topic here. Who said anything about a template? The point is, the new article, List of Arab towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestine War, is basically about Arab villages depopulated by the IDF in the war. In other words, it could be titled 'List of Arab villages depopulated by Israelis during the 1948 Palestine War'. How is that not a POV fork? What about Israeli villages depopulated by Arabs during the same war? Again, I'm not talking about non-1948 localities, which were added by other users and I have no opinion on keeping/removing those. â Ynhockey ( Talk) 16:44, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
This section is a workshop for Arab villages depopulated during the early Zionist period up to about 1930. It is quite hard to find precise information about this topic.
The following are land purchases from the Sursock, Farah, Ra'is, Atala, and Tueini families (Stein, Land Question in Palestine, p60). Most are in the Jezreel Valley, some further north. The first two might involve multiple villages and need to be expanded. Each needs individual checking that they were depopulated. Please add other possibilities, and strike out resolved cases. Zero talk 05:45, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
A lot of detail appears in the (hostile) book "The Claim of Dispossession" by Arieh Avneri. Some villages to consider: Zero talk 11:20, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Avneri says there is a list in the report of the Shaw Commission, vol II, p1074, exhibit 71. I'll get it. Zero talk 11:20, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
*Haneifa This is Knayfis/Khuneifis, etc.
There are a lot of structures in Peterson, Andrew (2002). A Gazetteer of Buildings in Muslim Palestine: Volume I (British Academy Monographs in Archaeology). Oxford University Press. ISBNÂ 9780197270110. ..which belongs to villages depopulated long before 1948. Now, not all of these villages were depopulated because of the "Arab-Israeli conflict" (even broadly interpreted) ...but as we (at least not I!) do not know *why* they were depopulated, I just put the info here, as I find them, Huldra ( talk) 18:15, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
By the way, sources in the know that I've spoken to indicate that as many as 70 villages were depopulated prior to 1948, most via land purchases, but a couple also from disease or in earthquakes. We have some way to go before reaching that figure. Tiamut talk 18:11, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Not to rain on everyone's parade, but do places that were peacefully dismantled due to change of ownership of the land really belong in an article about villages that were "depopulated" during the "conflict"? I mean, Sharona was "depopulated" in 1928 (everyone left), should we add that as well? Putting this stuff in an article with "conflict" in its title implies the places were "depopulated" due to violence or a threat thereof stemming from said "conflict", don't you think? No More Mr Nice Guy ( talk) 20:27, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
The report of the Shaw Commission on page 117, says that sales to Jewish land organizations in the Vale of Esdraelon (equal to Jezreel Valley for this purpose) from the Sursocks had amounted to more than 200,000 dunams during the mandate period so far. Twenty-two villages were included. "After the sales, the Arab cultivators, having received compensation, left all these villages with the exception of Mahloul." The villages are not listed in the Report (I think), but the table on the left appears on page 1074 of the Minutes of Evidence. The villages listed are: Tel-el-Adas, Jalud and Tel-el-Fer, Mahloul, Sofsafe-Ain-Sheika, Ain-Beida and Mokbey, Jinjar, Rob-el-Nasreh, Afule, Jabata, Kneifis, Two-thirds of Sulem, Jeida, Tel-el-Shemmam, Hartieh, Sheikh-Breik, Harbaj, Kiskis and Tabon, Jedro, Kordaneh, Kefr Etta, Majdal. (It isn't clear how to count 22.) Zero talk 10:04, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Here is a 1925 Zionist map of the Jezreel holdings, showing many of the Arab villages. Zero talk 13:01, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was consensus against move as inaccurate.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 13:35, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
List of villages depopulated during the ArabâIsraeli conflict â List of villages destroyed by Israel during the Arab-Israeli conflict â This need to be rename to List of villages destroyed by Israel during the Arab-Israeli conflict because it more factual. Depopulate be Pro-Israel POV in attempt to de emphasize destruction. Other discussion on article name here [20] Ani medjool ( talk) 23:33, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
I think both articles should be deleted because they contribute nothing but conflict. There is no way these articles can be made NPOV and their existence is dubious (what other conflict has a list of "depopulated" villages?). Further, there is very little sourcing on both pages and there is still much debate over who did what, where and when. It is also unclear if the articles refer to "forced" depopulation or if the populations merely fled or just left. Metallurgist ( talk) 00:44, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your edits, but you must provide a source for your claim. Your drive-by taggings are therefore removed. We already have a source claiming that these places were depopulated before 1948. As already clear from the article the historical record may not be as straightforward as we would hope. Any additional information on this subject is welcome. Please feel free to contribute. Jokkmokks-Goran ( talk) 22:05, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
So the name has been changed. We now have parity because every Jewish or Israeli illage settlement that has been depopulated is registered on the page, while the over 400 Palestinian villages destroyed as a result of 1948 are 'evaporated', all being shifted to a main page. Thus we have the counter-factual appearance of balanced losses. There is not even a selection of the major villages that have wikilinked articles. Very nice. Nishidani ( talk) 09:07, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Gilabrand is repeatedly deleting the list of villages depopulated pre-1948 as a result of the Zionist immigration. The only justification I can think of is that "Arab-Israeli conflict" only started when Israel started. Pedantically that is true, but it isn't the usual way the phrase is used. In fact I wonder if there is any book at all on "the Arab-Israeli conflict" that doesn't start in 1882 or earlier. At the very most, this is a problem with the page title. There is no reason whatever that Wikipedia should not list those villages. Choices: (1) a separate article, with a link to it in this article. (2) in this article with a title change to cover it. (3) in this article with the present title. Please give your opinions. I prefer (3). Zero talk 11:24, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
2.) Some villages that were Muslim pre-1948 ceased to exist when they were sold by the owners of the land to Jews. Under Ottoman and British law such sales were legal. Other villages may have ceased to exist pre-1948 for other reasons. The reasons need to be provided and sources. 3.) Current language: "List of Palestinian villages uprooted before 1948 with the time of expulsion" is highly un-neutral. I am attempting more neutral language. ShulMaven ( talk) 21:36, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
{{ multiple issues}}: This article is a list that I have tagged and the issue is that most of the villages are sourced to a website and, well, anybody can create a website. Each village needs to be sourced to establish: 1.) that such a village existed. 2.) why did the villagers leave (i.e., was the land sold. when? by whom? to whom?) 3.) If there is an assertion that a Muslim / Arab / Druze village was replaced by a Jewish one, that claim needs ot be sourced. Sources, people sources. You can't just go listing stuff without reliable sources. ShulMaven ( talk) 22:09, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
Overwhelmingly, the pre-1948 events on this page regarding Arab villages are sales. Legal sales to new owners. With the Arab tenants legally evicted. There was no "Arab-Israeli conflict" pre-1948, there were struggles among Ottoman, then British overlords, Greek Christians, Arab Christians, Druze, Zionists, and Arab Muslims - who also sometimes struggled violently among themselves. But pre-1948 these struggles were conducted within the urisdiciton of 2 successive Imperial regimes. It is incorrect and misleading to group - as is done here - the depopulation of a a Druze village in the 1890s by Ottoman officials in the context of a Druze uprising, or the sale of a Muslim Arab village by a Lebanese Christian to a Jewish land agency in the 1920s together under the rubric of "Israeli-Arab Conflict. i move that this article be split in 2 at 1948. ShulMaven ( talk) 02:51, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
I removed citation needed from "Shatah, unknown date ( Beit HaShita)", and a couple of others. However, Debresser reintroduced the cn-tags. I would argue that it is completely unnecessary...read the story of Beit HaShita, and it is all there. It is basically impossible to "cite", as it was emptied of its Palestinian population over a period of time.....same as with Afula, Kiryat Ata, etc. The Elyashiv data is also now in the article (will be updated with the 1945 data, eventually) So why on earth put cn-tags? Seriously, is this reasonable? Huldra ( talk) 22:42, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
Should not Mulebbis be here, somewhere? Huldra ( talk) 20:56, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.â InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:56, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
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Propose to merge
Population displacements in Israel after 1948 ->
List of villages depopulated during the ArabâIsraeli conflict
The source article is an overlapping topic of merely 4.6kb and is not likely to grow. Better be merged here.
GreyShark (
dibra)
09:43, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
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"Zamarin, unknown date (Zichron Yaacov)" -- the date is 1882, ref:
https://books.google.com/books?id=alVBAAAAIAAJ&q=1882 quote: 'Zamarin, near Haifa.' Zamarin was the Arab name of the town. When the first Jewish settlers came there, in 1882, they gave it a name of their own, Zichron Yaakov, meaning 'In memory of Jacob', in honour of the Baron Rothschild who had helped to found the settlement.
Please also amend the name to Zikhron Ya'akov, according to WP:HEBREW. -- Crash48 ( talk) 17:14, 24 May 2021 (UTC)