I think the Platformer genre should be classified as a major genre, even if there are not a lot of sub-genres to be identified. Certainly it was a major genre prior to the widespread era of three-dimensional games, even if nowadays there are fewer platformer games being made. Opinions? -- Leperflesh 00:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Some of today's most popular FPS series are Half-Life, Doom, Unreal, Quake, Far Cry, Counter-Strike, Halo, Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, and Battlefield.
Why are currently popular titles listed instead of notable titles like with other genres? Some of these listed I haven't even seen played, while the absence of Duke Nukem, for example, is notable. Krum Stanoev 19:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
This has most recently become a popular genre due to the Burger King games, but ”Advergames” like the 7up Spot and the Dominoes Noid game were around much earlier. This is sort of a highbred genre but it is certainly worth mention if some ones got the time. -- GamesGuru 09:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Ok I've gone ahead and added what I could on this genre if you have any more info please add it.
What about Online puzzles like Notpr0n? do they count as video games? 24.218.139.94 19:56, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Just to let everyone know, I am moving the MMO section to it's own section as opposed to a sub-section of RPG. Greeves ( talk • contribs • reviews) 00:00, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Just want to mention, I added a new genre, Category:Cockpit games, for these games which are played from the vantage of a cockpit, but are not simulators, though they may have features which resemble simulators. Hope you find this useful. please feel free to add to this category. Thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 15:26, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
i.e. Katamari Damacy or Blast Corps 71.178.246.229 01:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
"These frequently separate into two distinct styles: those where your character is completely of your own creation (as in Neverwinter Nights), and those where you take control of an existing character, defining only limited aspects of a character (like in Final Fantasy). These styles are sometimes referred to as Western and Japanese Role-Playing Games respectively, although there are numerous exceptions to these descriptors."
I think this difference is over-emphasized. There are more things that distinguish Western RPGs from Eastern than just this. SharkD 21:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
The genre article have been merged. But, are they in fact the same? Are there differences? Opinions please. SharkD 21:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
There a type of sim... also theres rape sims... you forgot those..... User:Sakaguchi 23:28, 7 April 2007
Ignoring the second type mentioned >.> I agree - where do dating sims fit in? Visual novels are also not mentioned here. And where would The Sims fit in? Lijakaca 18:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Also, what about animal sims, such as Nintendogs, or Catz, Dogz, Hamsterz etc.? Are they a category of their own, or shouldn't they at least be mentioned under the sim section? (Probably more like god sims I suppose) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.120.166 ( talk) 22:58, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
What genre is Katamari Damacy? If none of the currently listed genre, it will need to become it's own. It's probably similar to the third-person pinball type games, but... then again, not. "Third-person roll and collect genre"?
I'd suggest one of the existing genres be chosen according to how reviewers are describing it, either action or strategy. Genres are created when multiple games of the same style are available, that isn't the case here, so until a genre actually emerges (there's no guarantee one will) let the gameplay section of the article walk the walk. Someone another 11:24, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree that it's clearly an action game. I don't know that it fits into any sub-genre under action though. Wolfpup7 ( talk) 18:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I think it would be more appropriately referred to as a puzzle action game... but it would defenently be hard to define it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.173.174.149 ( talk) 02:14, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
In my opinion, adventure games should be placed under the Major category rather than the Notable genres category. Sure, it's not as popular as it once was, but it definitely deserves to be under the Major category -- ZFGokuSSJ1 19:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure where to put this complaint, but I take issue with a LOT of the genres listed here and the way they're listed. Primary genres should include probably Action, Adventure, and RPG (and probably others I'm not thinking of now). What's being referred to here as "adventure" should be put in a sub-genre. Something we used to call "PC-style adventure games"...except that the style has gotten fairly popular on the DS. The term "Adventure" has been used to describe (accurately, I believe) games like Zelda and Metroid (at least the earlier ones) since at least the mid-80s. There's no reason the "PC-style" adventure's use of that name is somehow more valid. At any rate, these need to be moved under an adventure genre as sub genres. Wolfpup7 ( talk) 05:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Moved scrolling fighters/brawlers to be a sub genre of fighting (with one on one/versus as the other major sub genre I'm aware of). Wolfpup7 ( talk) 05:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Zelda may be described as an "adventure" game but I feel that it incorporates the content of one of the first RPG's. You start out controlling a single figure and he gets more powerful as you progress in the game. I believe that the "Adventure" genre should be left alone.
Also, the "Fighting" genre describes one-on-one combat. If we combine the "Beat-em-up" and the "One-on-one" genres we might as well stick all of the "action" sub-genres into it because I feel they all fit into it. We should really change the name of the "Fighting" genre to something more specific. Doomrider15 ( talk) 00:17, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
RPG character progression typically has stats and levels, which are lacking from Zelda and Metroid and games of that ilk. The distinction is perhaps somewhat subtle, but adventure games like those tend to require certain abilities or items at certain points, whereas action/RPGs focus more on stats and levels, though there's a lot of cross bleeding between those genres.
Fighting does *NOT* only describe one-on-one combat. Fighting games actually referred to what would now be known as scrolling fighters or brawlers or the like BEFORE one on one fighters were popularized. They're both quite clearly part of a fighting game genre. There's a huge distinction between a game that involves (typically) throwing punches and kicks, doing close quarters combat, doing fairly involved input sequences, etc., and the rest of the action genre. It's even common for one-on-one fighting games to include scrolling fighters as an option, and vice versa. (Just off the top of my head, many Tekken games do this, as did the first console release of Double Dragon, Golden Axe, and many, many others. Wolfpup7 ( talk) 05:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
EDIT: It also occurred to me that it's common for fighting game series to have entries in both the side-scrolling and versus sub genres as separate games (beyond different modes in the same game). Off the top of my head Dynasty Warriors (although it's gameplay in the latter games is pretty shallow for a scrolling fighter), Double Dragon, Goldenaxe, TMNT, Tekken, etc.
Just realized "wrestling" needs to be added to this list. I'm thinking it probably needs to be a third sub-genre. I'm not very familiar with the genre, so I'd prefer if someone else added it. Wolfpup7 ( talk) 17:35, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Image:Pac-man.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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First of all, wording similar to "Real-Time tactical games may include: the Close Combat series..." is completely illogical. It also suggests that "Real-Time tactical games may NOT include: the Close Combat series...". Well, IS IT or IS IT NOT a game a game as described?
Secondly, 4x games are not an "obscure genre". It isn't a genre at all - rather a sub-genre of strategy game. Just because you personally may not be familiar with such games is not indicitive of their reknown. The Civilization series alone is one of the most popular and influential series ever made. Civilization I has been voted best game of ALL TIME. I'd say that hardly makes it "obscure". Bulbous 00:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I've played multiple strategy games (both turn-based and RTS -- which really should be RTT (real-time tactics)), and I assure you that they about as much similarity as RPGs and FPSes. -- DragonAtma 69.122.82.29 00:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I notice that this article has many subsections that could be integrated and it is quite long. Perhaps if we shorten it, we could remove that cleanup tag. Who agrees? GreaterWikiholic 01:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
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BetacommandBot 23:37, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
While working on formatting the entire article, I've noticed that most sections include a short (or long, in the case of a few) history of the genre. Is that really necessary in this article, or can that be relegated to the main article for each genre? I think a couple of lines of history wouldn't be too bad, but some include a couple of paragraphs. It definitely needs to be cut down, or at least made consistent throughout the article. Theris Faan 04:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree, each genre shouldn't have an in depth history. Instead, we should work more on the dscription so that everyone reading the article knows what we are describing. There were some parts where I got so lost in the history I wasn't sure what we were talking about. Doomrider15 ( talk) 00:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Advance Wars is a poor example, having been a limited release on a single platform, while Civilization is quoted in the main Turn-based article as "probably the best known turn-based game". Seems like a slam dunk to me - even if it is mentioned in the 4x section. Bulbous 17:06, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
The most basic form of turn based strategy is one of the best known: chess. 4x games are a specific form of strategy (turn based and real time). 64.231.195.228 22:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
A lot of this article seems to be a combination of gut feelings and webpages. The most reliable piece of research is from 1983. That's not anyone's fault -- it's hard to deal with subjects like video games that change rapidly. But I found a great resource on game genres that I think would help improve this main article (as well as the associated template).
From Andrew Rollings and Ernest Adams on Game Design, here is a recent and reliable breakdown of video game genres:
This would drastically improve the organization of the article, IMO. It would get rid of weird things like Flight Simulators being grouped in with Sim City, and the large number of subgenres floating around in "other notable genres". 64.231.195.228 23:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
So what happens to genres that didn't exist in 1983, like stealth game and survival horror? (My gut feeling tells me Action, but that's just what it is, a gut feeling.) Otherwise, it doesn't seem to be very different except for splitting up "Simulations". It'll still have weird things like Adult video game, Educational game, and Music game all lumped into the "other" category, but what can you do? Should work fine for this page, but the template will need to be redone, due to the glut of Action (and Shooter) sub-pages and a relative lack of others.
I've been waiting for someone to merge all the different sub-types of "shooter" into "Action game", but I'm not sure how to go about it. Having four basic "genres" of strategy game is also a bit troubling. SubStandardDeviation 00:57, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
If it's reliable then certainly a more modern basis for the article would be good, if this is indeed based on 1983 perspective with additions then it's hardly up to date. Having fewer, larger genres would also benefit in cases where genre is not clean-cut, so long as it can be called 'something' for the infobox, any further details on the game could then be cited or shown to be original research. Someone another 11:41, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Suggested layout: (we should also cut down descriptions to no more than a para each and rename this a list, IMO) I'm going to keep hammering away and taking suggestions, so here goes..
Notes/Omissions
There are several perfectly valid terms used as descriptors which do not correspond to genre, and are best left as categories and descriptors within the article, rather than as genres in the infobox. These include: Advergame, Adult video game and Educational game.
Maze-game seems fine except there's not enough material floating around to create an article, it's probably in books which certainly exist. The necessity of having an article on them and using the term as the genre in the infobox is not clear in my view. The genre 'Action' covers the job nicely, and a small section within that article would cover it until such a point as someone can actually write an in-depth article, assuming someone ever does.
Arcade, as a genre, is obsolete. It's used as a format rather than a descriptor of gameplay. Most arcade games can easily fit into the existing genres or, if all else fails, be labeled as action games.
Since Console role playing games and Computer role playing games were, up till recently, separated in terms of western and eastern developers, this format of labeling was helpful. However, in modern times with games like Oblivion and Two Worlds appearing on both console and PC, this form of classification is becoming redundant. Likewise, while PC gaming is still less important in Japan than it is here in the west, console-style games are increasingly finding their way onto windows PCs. I think we need to look at ways of splitting the genres up outside of the realm of format.
Shoot-em-ups are chaotically divided, with further sub-genres and terms all over the place. There has got to be a clearer way of presenting this information. Well there's a start. Someone another 07:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
(I fixed some wikilinks in your outline, BTW)
Suggestions--
(< indent) ATM I'm struggling to find time to do anything on WP at all. The sheer size of these tasks is daunting and seems to be increasing every time I try to nail something down. The task needs splitting down into manageable chunks and I need to get a copy of that book and as many others as possible - until I actually have access to the sources there's nothing I can do with regards to article writing.
What I'd suggest is that we:
Even while that's happening I'll be gradually working on the individual articles and looking for sources. Those sources in turn give us more information as to how this list should look and what articles should be in it. Merges, new articles and massive rewrites are not an immediate priority - they're some of the more complicated work and without a lot of sources between us it's going to be difficult to start. The simulation games are going to be a lot of trouble, RPGs look like they're going to be tricky too. Someone another 22:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
As we refine the layout based on research, we can really see some dividing lines. The distinction between action games and adventure games is clear -- one relied on reflexes, the other on unlocking a situational puzzle. Strategy games are distinct in requiring the management of multiple units, rather confining your experience to a specific avatar.
However, there are some genres that simply do not obey any distinguishing lines. I believe these constitute super-genres (if genres at all). Advergame, Adult video game, Educational game, Arcade game and Simulation games all contain numerous examples from the major genres. An adult video game can be an adventure game or an action game or even just strip poker. Arcade games come in all forms as well, and have NOTHING in common except for being in an arcade. Simulation games can simulate a sport, a car race, a strategic battle, a city, or someone's life -- and these games would have NOTHING in common except that they're not a fantasy. For this reason, I suggest putting these all in a "Super Genre" category, after all the other normal genres and subgenres. e.g.:
... Along with an explanation of how different genres (like Action or RPG) would fit under these supergenres (e.g.: arcade puzzle versus arcade action, adult adventure versus adult action, management sim versus flight sim versus dating sim). 64.231.195.228 20:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
"Super-genres"? Unless you have a source, it's already been stated that these are not genres because they don't have any effect on gameplay. An arcade game ported to consoles is the same game with a different interface, and a dating sim can be or not be a hentai game depending solely on graphics and dialogue. I'd say simulations are closer to MMOs in that they represent 1) a significant change in gameplay that is 2) common to all games in this "genre" (Earth-like environmental models). The new solution you've proposed, dividing Simulation game into Management simulation game and Vehicle simulation game, sounds like a better idea, since sim games themselves are divided into very specific sub-genres. I'd also add Artificial life game and God game to the "management" category. And per your "sports =? action" argument, I've yet to see a golf game that falls under "action". (EDIT: I've noticed "pinball" is on the list of genres. Should it be added to "action game"?) SubStandardDeviation 06:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
(break)
Source (mentioned above) categorizes board, card, and gambling games as "Casual games". Could include pinball. (I have not actually read the book, so I cannot say whether it mentions artificial life games, but the original poster said it "classifies simulations as being either vehicle sim or management sim".) Among the games linked to Artillery game, most are classified as a strategy game ( GunBound uses the term "ballistics simulation") so it could be a strategy game subgenre. Light gun game doesn't actually exist, and Light gun focuses more on the hardware, so a mention of light guns in the shooting games section would be enough. Scrolling shooter is a subgenre of shmup. Music video games are essentially a string of timed button (or similar) presses; the two genres that fit best are Puzzle and Action. SubStandardDeviation ( talk) 01:51, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Is there some particular reason pinball and music/rhythm-action games aren't listed under "acton"? I'm not aware of music games that aren't action games. I suppose "party" games might fall into different genres, though typically they'd be action or triva. And for that matter, where would a trivia game fall? I've moved scrolling fighters under fighting as a sub-genre, since that's what they are. They were routinely calling "fighting games" prior to the popularization of one on one fighters-which is just a sub genre of fighters. "Action-adventure" should at the least be moved under Adventure, and some of those adventure sub-genres should be reworked as sub-sub genres under "PC style adventure". And do Laserdisc games qualify as "adventure" games? I'd think they'd usually be better under action, although I know there are some "laserdisc style" games that function more like PC-style adventure games. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolfpup7 ( talk • contribs) 18:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
One of the many aspects of video game articles which seems to be a regular bone of contention, source of much (often unnecessary) discussion is the labeling of genre. After mulling it over I've come to a few conclusions and have some suggestions regarding standardizing the way we label videogames.
1. The genre section of infoboxes is there to provide the core gameplay classification by comparison, assuming that one exists. If core gameplay cannot be summarized with a genre then direct comparison is significantly less useful. Adding multiple genres just confuses matters and tries to replace an accurate description with a pile of links - the reader would still have to check each one and then read the gameplay description in order to get an accurate description. That defeats the object.
2. In infoboxes, there should only be one genre listed unless the game contains distinct play sections from different genres and they are fairly evenly represented within the game.
3. Where classification is difficult due to original gameplay style, the genre used should be cut right back to the base level of action, adventure or strategy etc. In the vast majority of cases, the reliable sources used to demonstrate notability should contain one of these terms. If there is no direct comparison then there is no point in trying to apply a label, applying a genre serves the reader, the reader doesn't serve the creation of genres. Katamari Damacy is a good example, there's nothing to compare it to apart from other Katamari games, so one of the top tier genres does as much as can be done.
4. Descriptions of gameplay or setting should not be used as genres if they are not widely regarded as such. Hack and Slash may be a regularly used term, but its status as an actual genre is debatable. There are several other examples. If the terms are regularly used in reviews etc. then there's no reason that they shouldn't be covered in the article proper. Categories also serve this purpose.
If we keep the infobox genre simple, using only widely recognized genres, I believe a lot of disagreements could be avoided. It doesn't really matter if things like hack and slash are genres provided they're kept in the article body and not the infobox - if they're cited as such they can be put in the relevant categories and it's dealt with. What think you? Someone another 13:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Sorry my edits have caused everyone so much work. I was wrong on the beat'em up games. Sorry about that. - DevinCook ( talk) 00:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:GBC Lemmings.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 07:18, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Madden06Screen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 14:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
this is the first time i've read this article; i see from the talk page it's had extensive cleanup and restructuring since the cleanup tag was added. just thought i'd point out that i think the article is now pretty good, both in terms of content and structure. maybe the only slightly odd part structurally being flight/tank etc sims etc being grouped with 'sim'/'god' games (i'd have thought the latter was a strategy sub-genre, oh well). while some parts could perhaps do with either trimming or expanding, i'd say the content largely reflects critical consensus (at least the closest there is to one) on terms used to describe genres and the gameplay features that constitute those genres. Bridies ( talk) 00:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
long explanation of a small edit i made...
I removed this from the beat em up section: ‘Critics have denounced this genre as being repetitive and boring.’ Though this statement was referenced, the sources in fact don’t support the statement. The first http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/39AB74BD-1E0E-4229-B6F3-4D6ED807D5E3.htm is a review of dynasty warriors 5. It complains that the series is ‘stagnant’ (hardly a surprise after the 5th instalment), although it still saw fit to give DW5 a score of 7 out of 10. While it calls the game ‘mindless, repetitive’ it also calls it ‘brain dead fun’; this dubious praise is at least at odds with ‘repetitive and boring’. The review only denounces the fact that dynasty warriors 5 has not progressed from earlier instalments, it is not representative of any critical derision of the wider genre, or even the game itself (7 out of 10…). The second http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/27728205-8B9C-4E09-98FA-002B2AD3104F.htm is a review of some teenage turtles game. While it criticises the game itself, the closest it comes to a ‘denouncement’ of the wider genre is to say it has ‘limitations’. Furthermore, the reviewer states that he is a ‘big fan’ of other turtles games in the genre; he also calls the genre ‘fast, fun and forgettable’ (here ‘forgettable’ does not equal ‘boring’). Thus the review to a large extent contradicts the statement it is supposed to support. Both sources are reviews of rather unimportant examples of the (‘scrolling’) beat em’ up genre; as such using them as a basis to say ‘critics have denounced this genre as being repetitive and boring’ gives the statement and reviews undue weight. Furthermore, the sentiments expressed in the reviews have been twisted (not that I’m assuming bad faith here; honest misinterpretation I’m sure) to suggest that they demonstrate a widespread critical derision of beat em’ ups when they do not. To turn what amounts to ‘this particular example of a beat em’ up is much the same as earlier instalments in its series. It’s repetitive but still fun, so I’ll give it 7 out of 10’ and ‘I don’t like this particular beat em up but I really like some others’ into ‘this genre is repetitive and boring’ is far too much of a stretch. Bridies ( talk) 05:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
the 'MMOHS' section should be removed entirely IMO. aside from the fact it's clumsily written, non-NPOV and seemingly original research, a google search doesn't turn up any evidence that the term exists outside this (and its own seperate) article (very original research!). at most (according to some brief google browsings) 'hack n' slash' is used as an adjective to describe the gameplay of certain MMORPGs, much as it is used to describe the gameplay of beat em' ups that have weapons. the section here doesn't even contend that this is what elevates it to status as a seperate genre; that is apparently down to the lack of interaction with NPCs and other players. Bridies ( talk) 05:38, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I think we should at least have a mention of the fastest growing web gaming genre and how some designers started with flash-- Matterfoot ( talk) 16:54, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Image:Zork screenshot.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 03:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
The Wikipedia page for Zork already features a different screen shot, with a rationale included.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Zork_I_computer_game.png
It might be easiest simply to use the image that already has the rationale. Dennis G. Jerz ( talk) 02:07, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Someone moved this article from video game genres to list of video game genres. I'm not sure there was any discussion about it. I don't see the rationale, either. I'm tempted to move it back, but I'd like to see what other people have to say first. Randomran ( talk) 00:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
I took the liberty of moving the page back. Feel free to discuss any move proposals here. Randomran ( talk) 20:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Why Vehicle simulation is the separate section and not a sub-section under Simulation section?
Also, I believe Construction and management simulation sub-section should be moved to Strategy section, as they are as much strategic as simulation.
Netrat_msk (
talk)
13:22, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I'd support refactoring this article into something resembling a list and removing these images. It doesn't prevent a lead section discussing the nature of game genres, or other headings within the article, but would help in reducing the problems on the page. Considering most entries here have their own articles, it seems unnecessary to devote so much text to repeating what should be in the articles themselves. A short description (like a couple of sentences) and two well-picked examples for each genre would serve the same purpose, but give us a fighting chance to actually get it up to scratch. A similar article/list for discussing related terminology (IE genres by purpose as opposed to gameplay) could run alongside. Take a look at Film genre, why can't we have something manageable like that? :( I've not looked at this article for yonks, but it's clear that everyone contributing has really improved it, so thanks and well done. Can we move the article further towards being sleek and functional? Someone another 22:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I am doing my best to integrate all the references into the article. The Chris Crawford and Thomas Apperley articles both fit well with the overview in the lead. Other articles referred to specific genres. Within a few days I hope to have a single section with proper wikified references. But if anyone would like help out I would appreciate it. 130.63.182.254 ( talk) 15:58, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
THe problem with the images here is defined in WP:NFCC#3a and WP:NFCC#8. The way to think about it is for each image, to say "if I removed this image, would the reader suddenly not be able to understand the article"? and if the answer is "Yes", then to say "could I replace that deleted image with text, or does it have to be the image"? Black Kite 17:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Am I incorrect in thinking that the correct plural of "FPS" is "FPS's" and not "FPSs" (note the apostrophe)? -- kaoskastle ( Talk) 22:35, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Good question. You add 's to something to say that it owns something. (e.g.: my dad's car. the movie's story.) See: Saxon genitive. Plural never uses the apostrophe. Randomran ( talk) 15:50, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Ham Pastrami ( talk) 23:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I was just noticing that Tower Defense is not desribed in the article but it is in the list of strategy game genres at the bottom. I'll add it, give it a short desciption, and I encourage you all to add to it and help clean it up. I'll also need examples and citations. Doomrider15 ( talk) 16:32, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Beat em ups have much more in common with hack and slash and shoot em ups than they do with other fighting games. Beat em ups are, at the core, side scrolling action games with two button gameplay, just like hack and slash or shoot em ups. Competitive fighting games play nothing like this. Genres here are organized by gameplay. If we started grouping together all the genres that involve fighting, then we might as well rename "Action Games" into "Fighting Games" and call First Person Shooters a form of fighting game. I'll be reverting this article back to its previous form. Randomran ( talk) 16:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Bridies ( talk) 02:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)When most people think of "Sega" and "fighting games," they think of the Virtua Fighter and Eternal Champions games, yet the first one-on-one fighting games for Sega's home and arcade units were neither of those titles. After Street Fighter II rocked the world in 1991, Sega's development teams set out to make the company a player in the new genre of video gaming (...) Arcade game companies in the mid- to late-1980s were making three major sorts of titles: beat-em-ups (it mentions altered beast and golden axe further down), shooters, and simulations (...) With the success of Street Fighter II beginning in March 1991, Capcom alone created demand for software of a largely new genre - the one-on-one fighting game
Thanks for your help. I took the time to incorporate a couple of references. Hopefully this will prevent further edit wars. I've been busy lately. Randomran ( talk) 21:43, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Wolfpup7, kindly stop removing verified content (including the citations themselves) and replacing it with original research, particularly since you have ignored this discussion. Bridies ( talk) 17:33, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
What genre would you use for Brick Busting games like Breakout, Arkanoid and others. I would guess somewhere in the Action super-genre, but is there enough of a precedent here to justify its own sub-genre? I personally don't feel it classifies as a Puzzle, but that's about the best I can come up with: Action/Puzzler. Dawynn ( talk) 13:51, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for jumping into wikipedia full force. Some games really don't fit into any of the special subgenres that have emerged. There are lots of generic RPGs or generic action-adventures. This is probably a generic action game. Use of reflexes and hand-eye coordination and so on. But the best thing to do would be to google it and look to see what genre it is. (I don't think "breakout clone" is a genre.) Randomran ( talk) 14:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
OK -- I'm having trouble believing this one. Side-scrolling video game does not seem to me to really define a genre. Even the article has trouble deciding what really defines the genre other than the *format* of moving from side to side. They speak of platform, RPG, Beat-em-up, and shooter side-scrolling games, and everything that the article talks about already has a valid genre -- meaning that any "side-scrolling" games would be double-genre games. I don't see any mention of games outside of already established true genres.
I vote for revising the Side-scrolling video game article to remove any references to it being a genre, and also strip this sub-genre from the Video game genres article (currently under the Action super-genre). Any other opinions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawynn ( talk • contribs) 17:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Could we get a new picture of Battle for Wesnoth in there? The present picture is outdated, and hence, doesn't quite do the game justice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.173.174.149 ( talk) 02:16, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
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Is it worth it to have a section somewhere for Gambling games? I'm thinking here the slew of casino- and parlor-related games. There's a number of Pachinko games in Japan, along with a number of general casino, or even poker-specific games here in the states. I guess games trying to replicate the card game of Poker itself might fall under "Traditional", but I have trouble with such a classification for games that try to bring the " Video poker" experience to the home computer / console.
Perhaps under other notable genres? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawynn ( talk • contribs) 16:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
There's a lot of adaptations of non-video games... card games, board games, pinball games, and yeah, casino games. Put it under other notable genres for now. There's an article that tries to group these together called traditional games, but I think it's mostly original research. Until we can find something that groups these together in a sensible way, it's best to deal with them separately. Randomran ( talk) 16:50, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
I remember some work has been done on this article lately, and I stumbled across some Game Informer articles I thought would be of help—if they have not already been found.
Hope it helps some. ( Guyinblack25 talk 16:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC))
Please help me come up with the proper terminology for the genre I'm thinking of.
I realize that this genre has all but died out with more recent, highly capable 3D graphics cards. But, back in the early days of RPG's, it was quite popular.
The user is presented with an interface that appears 3D. But this is just an illusion -- the player can only face the four primary compass directions -- N, S, E, W. In some games, the player can only move forward, while later games provided the ability to side-step. Generally, the user can only "see" about 3 squares ahead of him. Each key click forward is another square (tile, step) -- typically considered about 10 feet.
The entire game was easy to map out with graph paper. Later games of this genre would provide some sort of Auto-Map feature, but the early games required hand-drawn graph paper maps.
Wizardry I probably defined this genre. But it was used by Wizardry I - VII, Bard's Tale I - III, the non-battle portions of the AD&D gold-box games, the dungeon sections of early Ultima's (even Akalabeth), Lands of Lore, Might and Magic 1 - 5, Stonekeep, etc.
Or is this just a presentation mode, and not really a genre? With how much this presentation mode plays into the gameplay, and how similar such titles are in their playing styles, I would personally consider it a genre. Sure, its pretty much dead, but it did define the computer RPG world for a number of years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawynn ( talk • contribs) 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Visual Novels shouldn't be a game genre. There are action visual novels, romance visual novels, adventure visual novels, goth horror visual novels, etc. If anything visual novels is its own medium that should be discussed seperately as much of them feature zero gameplay.
96.234.111.24 ( talk) 21:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
See: List of Super Famicom and Super Nintendo games by genre
I have started an attempt to classify every SNES game according to genre. All games have been added now. Its just a matter of sorting everything out to the correct genres.
Feel free to pitch in if you have an interest in this old platform.
Dawynn ( talk) 13:07, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I didn't see a section for non-game, games without a specific goal in mind. Like Mario Paint and Brain Age. And would 4X go under God games? ForestAngel ( talk) 07:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty surprised that bishoujo games are not mentioned at all in the article. Although it is perhaps the most obscure genre of all video games, I thought it would at least have a mention within the visual novel/dating sim genre. Will someone mention this genre in the article? 69.120.98.246 ( talk) 22:32, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
OK -- I guess I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how exactly to define a genre / sub-genre. Is there actually enough references to classify light-gun games as a sub-genre of their own?
IMHO, a Light-Gun is not a sub-genre, its an interface. The interface should not be a defining characteristic of a genre or sub-genre. It would sound silly to talk about keyboard shooters or gamepad shooters, so why mention light gun shooters?
I would suggest most light gun games could be classed as either a gallery shooter (like Duck Hunt) or a rail shooter (like Area 51). Dawynn ( talk) 12:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Interactive movies are currently listed as a sub-genre of adventure games. This seems inappropriate because the only element common to interactive movies is the continued presence of full-screen full-motion video, whereas an adventure game is not an adventure game unless it involves strong elements of both plot and puzzles. The article itself even mentions that only some interactive movies are considered adventure games...
The term "interactive movie" more appropriately relates to a presentation style to my mind, and shouldn't be treated as a genre any more than 3D games / text-based games are. So I think the "genre" should go from the page... thoughts? Playclever ( talk) 22:24, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
I think the Platformer genre should be classified as a major genre, even if there are not a lot of sub-genres to be identified. Certainly it was a major genre prior to the widespread era of three-dimensional games, even if nowadays there are fewer platformer games being made. Opinions? -- Leperflesh 00:59, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Some of today's most popular FPS series are Half-Life, Doom, Unreal, Quake, Far Cry, Counter-Strike, Halo, Medal of Honor, Call of Duty, and Battlefield.
Why are currently popular titles listed instead of notable titles like with other genres? Some of these listed I haven't even seen played, while the absence of Duke Nukem, for example, is notable. Krum Stanoev 19:36, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
This has most recently become a popular genre due to the Burger King games, but ”Advergames” like the 7up Spot and the Dominoes Noid game were around much earlier. This is sort of a highbred genre but it is certainly worth mention if some ones got the time. -- GamesGuru 09:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Ok I've gone ahead and added what I could on this genre if you have any more info please add it.
What about Online puzzles like Notpr0n? do they count as video games? 24.218.139.94 19:56, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Just to let everyone know, I am moving the MMO section to it's own section as opposed to a sub-section of RPG. Greeves ( talk • contribs • reviews) 00:00, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Just want to mention, I added a new genre, Category:Cockpit games, for these games which are played from the vantage of a cockpit, but are not simulators, though they may have features which resemble simulators. Hope you find this useful. please feel free to add to this category. Thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 15:26, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
i.e. Katamari Damacy or Blast Corps 71.178.246.229 01:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
"These frequently separate into two distinct styles: those where your character is completely of your own creation (as in Neverwinter Nights), and those where you take control of an existing character, defining only limited aspects of a character (like in Final Fantasy). These styles are sometimes referred to as Western and Japanese Role-Playing Games respectively, although there are numerous exceptions to these descriptors."
I think this difference is over-emphasized. There are more things that distinguish Western RPGs from Eastern than just this. SharkD 21:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
The genre article have been merged. But, are they in fact the same? Are there differences? Opinions please. SharkD 21:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
There a type of sim... also theres rape sims... you forgot those..... User:Sakaguchi 23:28, 7 April 2007
Ignoring the second type mentioned >.> I agree - where do dating sims fit in? Visual novels are also not mentioned here. And where would The Sims fit in? Lijakaca 18:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Also, what about animal sims, such as Nintendogs, or Catz, Dogz, Hamsterz etc.? Are they a category of their own, or shouldn't they at least be mentioned under the sim section? (Probably more like god sims I suppose) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.120.166 ( talk) 22:58, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
What genre is Katamari Damacy? If none of the currently listed genre, it will need to become it's own. It's probably similar to the third-person pinball type games, but... then again, not. "Third-person roll and collect genre"?
I'd suggest one of the existing genres be chosen according to how reviewers are describing it, either action or strategy. Genres are created when multiple games of the same style are available, that isn't the case here, so until a genre actually emerges (there's no guarantee one will) let the gameplay section of the article walk the walk. Someone another 11:24, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree that it's clearly an action game. I don't know that it fits into any sub-genre under action though. Wolfpup7 ( talk) 18:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I think it would be more appropriately referred to as a puzzle action game... but it would defenently be hard to define it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.173.174.149 ( talk) 02:14, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
In my opinion, adventure games should be placed under the Major category rather than the Notable genres category. Sure, it's not as popular as it once was, but it definitely deserves to be under the Major category -- ZFGokuSSJ1 19:02, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure where to put this complaint, but I take issue with a LOT of the genres listed here and the way they're listed. Primary genres should include probably Action, Adventure, and RPG (and probably others I'm not thinking of now). What's being referred to here as "adventure" should be put in a sub-genre. Something we used to call "PC-style adventure games"...except that the style has gotten fairly popular on the DS. The term "Adventure" has been used to describe (accurately, I believe) games like Zelda and Metroid (at least the earlier ones) since at least the mid-80s. There's no reason the "PC-style" adventure's use of that name is somehow more valid. At any rate, these need to be moved under an adventure genre as sub genres. Wolfpup7 ( talk) 05:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Moved scrolling fighters/brawlers to be a sub genre of fighting (with one on one/versus as the other major sub genre I'm aware of). Wolfpup7 ( talk) 05:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Zelda may be described as an "adventure" game but I feel that it incorporates the content of one of the first RPG's. You start out controlling a single figure and he gets more powerful as you progress in the game. I believe that the "Adventure" genre should be left alone.
Also, the "Fighting" genre describes one-on-one combat. If we combine the "Beat-em-up" and the "One-on-one" genres we might as well stick all of the "action" sub-genres into it because I feel they all fit into it. We should really change the name of the "Fighting" genre to something more specific. Doomrider15 ( talk) 00:17, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
RPG character progression typically has stats and levels, which are lacking from Zelda and Metroid and games of that ilk. The distinction is perhaps somewhat subtle, but adventure games like those tend to require certain abilities or items at certain points, whereas action/RPGs focus more on stats and levels, though there's a lot of cross bleeding between those genres.
Fighting does *NOT* only describe one-on-one combat. Fighting games actually referred to what would now be known as scrolling fighters or brawlers or the like BEFORE one on one fighters were popularized. They're both quite clearly part of a fighting game genre. There's a huge distinction between a game that involves (typically) throwing punches and kicks, doing close quarters combat, doing fairly involved input sequences, etc., and the rest of the action genre. It's even common for one-on-one fighting games to include scrolling fighters as an option, and vice versa. (Just off the top of my head, many Tekken games do this, as did the first console release of Double Dragon, Golden Axe, and many, many others. Wolfpup7 ( talk) 05:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
EDIT: It also occurred to me that it's common for fighting game series to have entries in both the side-scrolling and versus sub genres as separate games (beyond different modes in the same game). Off the top of my head Dynasty Warriors (although it's gameplay in the latter games is pretty shallow for a scrolling fighter), Double Dragon, Goldenaxe, TMNT, Tekken, etc.
Just realized "wrestling" needs to be added to this list. I'm thinking it probably needs to be a third sub-genre. I'm not very familiar with the genre, so I'd prefer if someone else added it. Wolfpup7 ( talk) 17:35, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Image:Pac-man.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 00:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
First of all, wording similar to "Real-Time tactical games may include: the Close Combat series..." is completely illogical. It also suggests that "Real-Time tactical games may NOT include: the Close Combat series...". Well, IS IT or IS IT NOT a game a game as described?
Secondly, 4x games are not an "obscure genre". It isn't a genre at all - rather a sub-genre of strategy game. Just because you personally may not be familiar with such games is not indicitive of their reknown. The Civilization series alone is one of the most popular and influential series ever made. Civilization I has been voted best game of ALL TIME. I'd say that hardly makes it "obscure". Bulbous 00:24, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I've played multiple strategy games (both turn-based and RTS -- which really should be RTT (real-time tactics)), and I assure you that they about as much similarity as RPGs and FPSes. -- DragonAtma 69.122.82.29 00:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I notice that this article has many subsections that could be integrated and it is quite long. Perhaps if we shorten it, we could remove that cleanup tag. Who agrees? GreaterWikiholic 01:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:Pac-man.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 23:37, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
While working on formatting the entire article, I've noticed that most sections include a short (or long, in the case of a few) history of the genre. Is that really necessary in this article, or can that be relegated to the main article for each genre? I think a couple of lines of history wouldn't be too bad, but some include a couple of paragraphs. It definitely needs to be cut down, or at least made consistent throughout the article. Theris Faan 04:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree, each genre shouldn't have an in depth history. Instead, we should work more on the dscription so that everyone reading the article knows what we are describing. There were some parts where I got so lost in the history I wasn't sure what we were talking about. Doomrider15 ( talk) 00:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Advance Wars is a poor example, having been a limited release on a single platform, while Civilization is quoted in the main Turn-based article as "probably the best known turn-based game". Seems like a slam dunk to me - even if it is mentioned in the 4x section. Bulbous 17:06, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
The most basic form of turn based strategy is one of the best known: chess. 4x games are a specific form of strategy (turn based and real time). 64.231.195.228 22:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
A lot of this article seems to be a combination of gut feelings and webpages. The most reliable piece of research is from 1983. That's not anyone's fault -- it's hard to deal with subjects like video games that change rapidly. But I found a great resource on game genres that I think would help improve this main article (as well as the associated template).
From Andrew Rollings and Ernest Adams on Game Design, here is a recent and reliable breakdown of video game genres:
This would drastically improve the organization of the article, IMO. It would get rid of weird things like Flight Simulators being grouped in with Sim City, and the large number of subgenres floating around in "other notable genres". 64.231.195.228 23:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
So what happens to genres that didn't exist in 1983, like stealth game and survival horror? (My gut feeling tells me Action, but that's just what it is, a gut feeling.) Otherwise, it doesn't seem to be very different except for splitting up "Simulations". It'll still have weird things like Adult video game, Educational game, and Music game all lumped into the "other" category, but what can you do? Should work fine for this page, but the template will need to be redone, due to the glut of Action (and Shooter) sub-pages and a relative lack of others.
I've been waiting for someone to merge all the different sub-types of "shooter" into "Action game", but I'm not sure how to go about it. Having four basic "genres" of strategy game is also a bit troubling. SubStandardDeviation 00:57, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
If it's reliable then certainly a more modern basis for the article would be good, if this is indeed based on 1983 perspective with additions then it's hardly up to date. Having fewer, larger genres would also benefit in cases where genre is not clean-cut, so long as it can be called 'something' for the infobox, any further details on the game could then be cited or shown to be original research. Someone another 11:41, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Suggested layout: (we should also cut down descriptions to no more than a para each and rename this a list, IMO) I'm going to keep hammering away and taking suggestions, so here goes..
Notes/Omissions
There are several perfectly valid terms used as descriptors which do not correspond to genre, and are best left as categories and descriptors within the article, rather than as genres in the infobox. These include: Advergame, Adult video game and Educational game.
Maze-game seems fine except there's not enough material floating around to create an article, it's probably in books which certainly exist. The necessity of having an article on them and using the term as the genre in the infobox is not clear in my view. The genre 'Action' covers the job nicely, and a small section within that article would cover it until such a point as someone can actually write an in-depth article, assuming someone ever does.
Arcade, as a genre, is obsolete. It's used as a format rather than a descriptor of gameplay. Most arcade games can easily fit into the existing genres or, if all else fails, be labeled as action games.
Since Console role playing games and Computer role playing games were, up till recently, separated in terms of western and eastern developers, this format of labeling was helpful. However, in modern times with games like Oblivion and Two Worlds appearing on both console and PC, this form of classification is becoming redundant. Likewise, while PC gaming is still less important in Japan than it is here in the west, console-style games are increasingly finding their way onto windows PCs. I think we need to look at ways of splitting the genres up outside of the realm of format.
Shoot-em-ups are chaotically divided, with further sub-genres and terms all over the place. There has got to be a clearer way of presenting this information. Well there's a start. Someone another 07:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
(I fixed some wikilinks in your outline, BTW)
Suggestions--
(< indent) ATM I'm struggling to find time to do anything on WP at all. The sheer size of these tasks is daunting and seems to be increasing every time I try to nail something down. The task needs splitting down into manageable chunks and I need to get a copy of that book and as many others as possible - until I actually have access to the sources there's nothing I can do with regards to article writing.
What I'd suggest is that we:
Even while that's happening I'll be gradually working on the individual articles and looking for sources. Those sources in turn give us more information as to how this list should look and what articles should be in it. Merges, new articles and massive rewrites are not an immediate priority - they're some of the more complicated work and without a lot of sources between us it's going to be difficult to start. The simulation games are going to be a lot of trouble, RPGs look like they're going to be tricky too. Someone another 22:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
As we refine the layout based on research, we can really see some dividing lines. The distinction between action games and adventure games is clear -- one relied on reflexes, the other on unlocking a situational puzzle. Strategy games are distinct in requiring the management of multiple units, rather confining your experience to a specific avatar.
However, there are some genres that simply do not obey any distinguishing lines. I believe these constitute super-genres (if genres at all). Advergame, Adult video game, Educational game, Arcade game and Simulation games all contain numerous examples from the major genres. An adult video game can be an adventure game or an action game or even just strip poker. Arcade games come in all forms as well, and have NOTHING in common except for being in an arcade. Simulation games can simulate a sport, a car race, a strategic battle, a city, or someone's life -- and these games would have NOTHING in common except that they're not a fantasy. For this reason, I suggest putting these all in a "Super Genre" category, after all the other normal genres and subgenres. e.g.:
... Along with an explanation of how different genres (like Action or RPG) would fit under these supergenres (e.g.: arcade puzzle versus arcade action, adult adventure versus adult action, management sim versus flight sim versus dating sim). 64.231.195.228 20:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
"Super-genres"? Unless you have a source, it's already been stated that these are not genres because they don't have any effect on gameplay. An arcade game ported to consoles is the same game with a different interface, and a dating sim can be or not be a hentai game depending solely on graphics and dialogue. I'd say simulations are closer to MMOs in that they represent 1) a significant change in gameplay that is 2) common to all games in this "genre" (Earth-like environmental models). The new solution you've proposed, dividing Simulation game into Management simulation game and Vehicle simulation game, sounds like a better idea, since sim games themselves are divided into very specific sub-genres. I'd also add Artificial life game and God game to the "management" category. And per your "sports =? action" argument, I've yet to see a golf game that falls under "action". (EDIT: I've noticed "pinball" is on the list of genres. Should it be added to "action game"?) SubStandardDeviation 06:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
(break)
Source (mentioned above) categorizes board, card, and gambling games as "Casual games". Could include pinball. (I have not actually read the book, so I cannot say whether it mentions artificial life games, but the original poster said it "classifies simulations as being either vehicle sim or management sim".) Among the games linked to Artillery game, most are classified as a strategy game ( GunBound uses the term "ballistics simulation") so it could be a strategy game subgenre. Light gun game doesn't actually exist, and Light gun focuses more on the hardware, so a mention of light guns in the shooting games section would be enough. Scrolling shooter is a subgenre of shmup. Music video games are essentially a string of timed button (or similar) presses; the two genres that fit best are Puzzle and Action. SubStandardDeviation ( talk) 01:51, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Is there some particular reason pinball and music/rhythm-action games aren't listed under "acton"? I'm not aware of music games that aren't action games. I suppose "party" games might fall into different genres, though typically they'd be action or triva. And for that matter, where would a trivia game fall? I've moved scrolling fighters under fighting as a sub-genre, since that's what they are. They were routinely calling "fighting games" prior to the popularization of one on one fighters-which is just a sub genre of fighters. "Action-adventure" should at the least be moved under Adventure, and some of those adventure sub-genres should be reworked as sub-sub genres under "PC style adventure". And do Laserdisc games qualify as "adventure" games? I'd think they'd usually be better under action, although I know there are some "laserdisc style" games that function more like PC-style adventure games. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolfpup7 ( talk • contribs) 18:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
One of the many aspects of video game articles which seems to be a regular bone of contention, source of much (often unnecessary) discussion is the labeling of genre. After mulling it over I've come to a few conclusions and have some suggestions regarding standardizing the way we label videogames.
1. The genre section of infoboxes is there to provide the core gameplay classification by comparison, assuming that one exists. If core gameplay cannot be summarized with a genre then direct comparison is significantly less useful. Adding multiple genres just confuses matters and tries to replace an accurate description with a pile of links - the reader would still have to check each one and then read the gameplay description in order to get an accurate description. That defeats the object.
2. In infoboxes, there should only be one genre listed unless the game contains distinct play sections from different genres and they are fairly evenly represented within the game.
3. Where classification is difficult due to original gameplay style, the genre used should be cut right back to the base level of action, adventure or strategy etc. In the vast majority of cases, the reliable sources used to demonstrate notability should contain one of these terms. If there is no direct comparison then there is no point in trying to apply a label, applying a genre serves the reader, the reader doesn't serve the creation of genres. Katamari Damacy is a good example, there's nothing to compare it to apart from other Katamari games, so one of the top tier genres does as much as can be done.
4. Descriptions of gameplay or setting should not be used as genres if they are not widely regarded as such. Hack and Slash may be a regularly used term, but its status as an actual genre is debatable. There are several other examples. If the terms are regularly used in reviews etc. then there's no reason that they shouldn't be covered in the article proper. Categories also serve this purpose.
If we keep the infobox genre simple, using only widely recognized genres, I believe a lot of disagreements could be avoided. It doesn't really matter if things like hack and slash are genres provided they're kept in the article body and not the infobox - if they're cited as such they can be put in the relevant categories and it's dealt with. What think you? Someone another 13:07, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Sorry my edits have caused everyone so much work. I was wrong on the beat'em up games. Sorry about that. - DevinCook ( talk) 00:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:GBC Lemmings.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 07:18, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Madden06Screen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 14:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
this is the first time i've read this article; i see from the talk page it's had extensive cleanup and restructuring since the cleanup tag was added. just thought i'd point out that i think the article is now pretty good, both in terms of content and structure. maybe the only slightly odd part structurally being flight/tank etc sims etc being grouped with 'sim'/'god' games (i'd have thought the latter was a strategy sub-genre, oh well). while some parts could perhaps do with either trimming or expanding, i'd say the content largely reflects critical consensus (at least the closest there is to one) on terms used to describe genres and the gameplay features that constitute those genres. Bridies ( talk) 00:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
long explanation of a small edit i made...
I removed this from the beat em up section: ‘Critics have denounced this genre as being repetitive and boring.’ Though this statement was referenced, the sources in fact don’t support the statement. The first http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/39AB74BD-1E0E-4229-B6F3-4D6ED807D5E3.htm is a review of dynasty warriors 5. It complains that the series is ‘stagnant’ (hardly a surprise after the 5th instalment), although it still saw fit to give DW5 a score of 7 out of 10. While it calls the game ‘mindless, repetitive’ it also calls it ‘brain dead fun’; this dubious praise is at least at odds with ‘repetitive and boring’. The review only denounces the fact that dynasty warriors 5 has not progressed from earlier instalments, it is not representative of any critical derision of the wider genre, or even the game itself (7 out of 10…). The second http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/exeres/27728205-8B9C-4E09-98FA-002B2AD3104F.htm is a review of some teenage turtles game. While it criticises the game itself, the closest it comes to a ‘denouncement’ of the wider genre is to say it has ‘limitations’. Furthermore, the reviewer states that he is a ‘big fan’ of other turtles games in the genre; he also calls the genre ‘fast, fun and forgettable’ (here ‘forgettable’ does not equal ‘boring’). Thus the review to a large extent contradicts the statement it is supposed to support. Both sources are reviews of rather unimportant examples of the (‘scrolling’) beat em’ up genre; as such using them as a basis to say ‘critics have denounced this genre as being repetitive and boring’ gives the statement and reviews undue weight. Furthermore, the sentiments expressed in the reviews have been twisted (not that I’m assuming bad faith here; honest misinterpretation I’m sure) to suggest that they demonstrate a widespread critical derision of beat em’ ups when they do not. To turn what amounts to ‘this particular example of a beat em’ up is much the same as earlier instalments in its series. It’s repetitive but still fun, so I’ll give it 7 out of 10’ and ‘I don’t like this particular beat em up but I really like some others’ into ‘this genre is repetitive and boring’ is far too much of a stretch. Bridies ( talk) 05:15, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
the 'MMOHS' section should be removed entirely IMO. aside from the fact it's clumsily written, non-NPOV and seemingly original research, a google search doesn't turn up any evidence that the term exists outside this (and its own seperate) article (very original research!). at most (according to some brief google browsings) 'hack n' slash' is used as an adjective to describe the gameplay of certain MMORPGs, much as it is used to describe the gameplay of beat em' ups that have weapons. the section here doesn't even contend that this is what elevates it to status as a seperate genre; that is apparently down to the lack of interaction with NPCs and other players. Bridies ( talk) 05:38, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
I think we should at least have a mention of the fastest growing web gaming genre and how some designers started with flash-- Matterfoot ( talk) 16:54, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Image:Zork screenshot.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 03:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
The Wikipedia page for Zork already features a different screen shot, with a rationale included.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Zork_I_computer_game.png
It might be easiest simply to use the image that already has the rationale. Dennis G. Jerz ( talk) 02:07, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Someone moved this article from video game genres to list of video game genres. I'm not sure there was any discussion about it. I don't see the rationale, either. I'm tempted to move it back, but I'd like to see what other people have to say first. Randomran ( talk) 00:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
I took the liberty of moving the page back. Feel free to discuss any move proposals here. Randomran ( talk) 20:45, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Why Vehicle simulation is the separate section and not a sub-section under Simulation section?
Also, I believe Construction and management simulation sub-section should be moved to Strategy section, as they are as much strategic as simulation.
Netrat_msk (
talk)
13:22, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
I'd support refactoring this article into something resembling a list and removing these images. It doesn't prevent a lead section discussing the nature of game genres, or other headings within the article, but would help in reducing the problems on the page. Considering most entries here have their own articles, it seems unnecessary to devote so much text to repeating what should be in the articles themselves. A short description (like a couple of sentences) and two well-picked examples for each genre would serve the same purpose, but give us a fighting chance to actually get it up to scratch. A similar article/list for discussing related terminology (IE genres by purpose as opposed to gameplay) could run alongside. Take a look at Film genre, why can't we have something manageable like that? :( I've not looked at this article for yonks, but it's clear that everyone contributing has really improved it, so thanks and well done. Can we move the article further towards being sleek and functional? Someone another 22:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I am doing my best to integrate all the references into the article. The Chris Crawford and Thomas Apperley articles both fit well with the overview in the lead. Other articles referred to specific genres. Within a few days I hope to have a single section with proper wikified references. But if anyone would like help out I would appreciate it. 130.63.182.254 ( talk) 15:58, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
THe problem with the images here is defined in WP:NFCC#3a and WP:NFCC#8. The way to think about it is for each image, to say "if I removed this image, would the reader suddenly not be able to understand the article"? and if the answer is "Yes", then to say "could I replace that deleted image with text, or does it have to be the image"? Black Kite 17:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Am I incorrect in thinking that the correct plural of "FPS" is "FPS's" and not "FPSs" (note the apostrophe)? -- kaoskastle ( Talk) 22:35, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Good question. You add 's to something to say that it owns something. (e.g.: my dad's car. the movie's story.) See: Saxon genitive. Plural never uses the apostrophe. Randomran ( talk) 15:50, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Ham Pastrami ( talk) 23:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I was just noticing that Tower Defense is not desribed in the article but it is in the list of strategy game genres at the bottom. I'll add it, give it a short desciption, and I encourage you all to add to it and help clean it up. I'll also need examples and citations. Doomrider15 ( talk) 16:32, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Beat em ups have much more in common with hack and slash and shoot em ups than they do with other fighting games. Beat em ups are, at the core, side scrolling action games with two button gameplay, just like hack and slash or shoot em ups. Competitive fighting games play nothing like this. Genres here are organized by gameplay. If we started grouping together all the genres that involve fighting, then we might as well rename "Action Games" into "Fighting Games" and call First Person Shooters a form of fighting game. I'll be reverting this article back to its previous form. Randomran ( talk) 16:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Bridies ( talk) 02:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)When most people think of "Sega" and "fighting games," they think of the Virtua Fighter and Eternal Champions games, yet the first one-on-one fighting games for Sega's home and arcade units were neither of those titles. After Street Fighter II rocked the world in 1991, Sega's development teams set out to make the company a player in the new genre of video gaming (...) Arcade game companies in the mid- to late-1980s were making three major sorts of titles: beat-em-ups (it mentions altered beast and golden axe further down), shooters, and simulations (...) With the success of Street Fighter II beginning in March 1991, Capcom alone created demand for software of a largely new genre - the one-on-one fighting game
Thanks for your help. I took the time to incorporate a couple of references. Hopefully this will prevent further edit wars. I've been busy lately. Randomran ( talk) 21:43, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Wolfpup7, kindly stop removing verified content (including the citations themselves) and replacing it with original research, particularly since you have ignored this discussion. Bridies ( talk) 17:33, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
What genre would you use for Brick Busting games like Breakout, Arkanoid and others. I would guess somewhere in the Action super-genre, but is there enough of a precedent here to justify its own sub-genre? I personally don't feel it classifies as a Puzzle, but that's about the best I can come up with: Action/Puzzler. Dawynn ( talk) 13:51, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for jumping into wikipedia full force. Some games really don't fit into any of the special subgenres that have emerged. There are lots of generic RPGs or generic action-adventures. This is probably a generic action game. Use of reflexes and hand-eye coordination and so on. But the best thing to do would be to google it and look to see what genre it is. (I don't think "breakout clone" is a genre.) Randomran ( talk) 14:47, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
OK -- I'm having trouble believing this one. Side-scrolling video game does not seem to me to really define a genre. Even the article has trouble deciding what really defines the genre other than the *format* of moving from side to side. They speak of platform, RPG, Beat-em-up, and shooter side-scrolling games, and everything that the article talks about already has a valid genre -- meaning that any "side-scrolling" games would be double-genre games. I don't see any mention of games outside of already established true genres.
I vote for revising the Side-scrolling video game article to remove any references to it being a genre, and also strip this sub-genre from the Video game genres article (currently under the Action super-genre). Any other opinions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawynn ( talk • contribs) 17:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Could we get a new picture of Battle for Wesnoth in there? The present picture is outdated, and hence, doesn't quite do the game justice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.173.174.149 ( talk) 02:16, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
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Is it worth it to have a section somewhere for Gambling games? I'm thinking here the slew of casino- and parlor-related games. There's a number of Pachinko games in Japan, along with a number of general casino, or even poker-specific games here in the states. I guess games trying to replicate the card game of Poker itself might fall under "Traditional", but I have trouble with such a classification for games that try to bring the " Video poker" experience to the home computer / console.
Perhaps under other notable genres? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawynn ( talk • contribs) 16:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
There's a lot of adaptations of non-video games... card games, board games, pinball games, and yeah, casino games. Put it under other notable genres for now. There's an article that tries to group these together called traditional games, but I think it's mostly original research. Until we can find something that groups these together in a sensible way, it's best to deal with them separately. Randomran ( talk) 16:50, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
I remember some work has been done on this article lately, and I stumbled across some Game Informer articles I thought would be of help—if they have not already been found.
Hope it helps some. ( Guyinblack25 talk 16:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC))
Please help me come up with the proper terminology for the genre I'm thinking of.
I realize that this genre has all but died out with more recent, highly capable 3D graphics cards. But, back in the early days of RPG's, it was quite popular.
The user is presented with an interface that appears 3D. But this is just an illusion -- the player can only face the four primary compass directions -- N, S, E, W. In some games, the player can only move forward, while later games provided the ability to side-step. Generally, the user can only "see" about 3 squares ahead of him. Each key click forward is another square (tile, step) -- typically considered about 10 feet.
The entire game was easy to map out with graph paper. Later games of this genre would provide some sort of Auto-Map feature, but the early games required hand-drawn graph paper maps.
Wizardry I probably defined this genre. But it was used by Wizardry I - VII, Bard's Tale I - III, the non-battle portions of the AD&D gold-box games, the dungeon sections of early Ultima's (even Akalabeth), Lands of Lore, Might and Magic 1 - 5, Stonekeep, etc.
Or is this just a presentation mode, and not really a genre? With how much this presentation mode plays into the gameplay, and how similar such titles are in their playing styles, I would personally consider it a genre. Sure, its pretty much dead, but it did define the computer RPG world for a number of years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawynn ( talk • contribs) 14:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Visual Novels shouldn't be a game genre. There are action visual novels, romance visual novels, adventure visual novels, goth horror visual novels, etc. If anything visual novels is its own medium that should be discussed seperately as much of them feature zero gameplay.
96.234.111.24 ( talk) 21:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
See: List of Super Famicom and Super Nintendo games by genre
I have started an attempt to classify every SNES game according to genre. All games have been added now. Its just a matter of sorting everything out to the correct genres.
Feel free to pitch in if you have an interest in this old platform.
Dawynn ( talk) 13:07, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
I didn't see a section for non-game, games without a specific goal in mind. Like Mario Paint and Brain Age. And would 4X go under God games? ForestAngel ( talk) 07:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty surprised that bishoujo games are not mentioned at all in the article. Although it is perhaps the most obscure genre of all video games, I thought it would at least have a mention within the visual novel/dating sim genre. Will someone mention this genre in the article? 69.120.98.246 ( talk) 22:32, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
OK -- I guess I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how exactly to define a genre / sub-genre. Is there actually enough references to classify light-gun games as a sub-genre of their own?
IMHO, a Light-Gun is not a sub-genre, its an interface. The interface should not be a defining characteristic of a genre or sub-genre. It would sound silly to talk about keyboard shooters or gamepad shooters, so why mention light gun shooters?
I would suggest most light gun games could be classed as either a gallery shooter (like Duck Hunt) or a rail shooter (like Area 51). Dawynn ( talk) 12:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Interactive movies are currently listed as a sub-genre of adventure games. This seems inappropriate because the only element common to interactive movies is the continued presence of full-screen full-motion video, whereas an adventure game is not an adventure game unless it involves strong elements of both plot and puzzles. The article itself even mentions that only some interactive movies are considered adventure games...
The term "interactive movie" more appropriately relates to a presentation style to my mind, and shouldn't be treated as a genre any more than 3D games / text-based games are. So I think the "genre" should go from the page... thoughts? Playclever ( talk) 22:24, 10 August 2008 (UTC)