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Should Erwin Rommel be included in this list? It seems a very loose definition of victim that includes a prominent member of the Nazi war machine. With a definition this loose one could argue that Hitler was a victim of Nazism as its failure drove him to suicide. A clear definition would be extremely helpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.200.200 ( talk) 00:53, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Delete Simply too many victims to name. The dozen names currently on the page make up less than 0.000001% of the actual number of victims. Jendeyoung 02:02, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
Well yeah, you got a point. What are we supposed to do with with this one? I suggest that we create an article List of Famous Holocaust victims (or simply renaming this one!). But a list of six millions victims? Is there a database out there where all the victims are registered? (accessible to the public of course) Some suggestions here? -- Jambalaya 02:08, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
List of Famous Holocaust victims is an appropriate name. The current name's pool is too large for an article on Wikipedia, and I highly doubt an internet source exists with the names of millions of people. Jendeyoung 06:02, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
Aren't survivors also victims of the Holocaust? We should rename to List of people killed in the Holocaust, otherwise the survivor's list should just be merged. Carlossuarez46 21:44, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks JonRoma, I was waiting for a response for a while and you produced a well-thought out one. I think that formalizing the proposal is something you should consider; whatever formalization means. I wholeheartedly agree that the Röhm folks are not Holocaust victims by any stretch. I feel fairly confident that the July 20 plotters are not either, nor are general political opponents (white rose, pacifists, communists, even POWs qua POWs). This is inherently my POV however. I have always thought that the Holocaust was the genocidal persecutions and killings by the Nazis. I think one would have to look quite far in Holocaust literature to find references to Röhm as victim, the White Rose or Stauffenburg Circle or other resistance groups. However, groups of political opponents were put through similar and sometimes the same processes: communists, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, POWs, etc. made their way into the concentration and extermination camp system. We do have a category entitled Category:Victims of Nazi justice so maybe this needs to be categoried into Category:People killed in the Holocaust and Category:Holocaust survivors; the latter category will still be somewhat subjective: clearly Elie Wiesel qualifies, but what about Albert Einstein? I suppose that in part depends on whether one considers the Nuremburg Laws to be "part" of the Holocaust, as their passage depriving Einstein of his German citizenship made him a victim. Just a POV rambling but a formal proposal would be a welcome start to cleaning this up. Carlossuarez46 18:53, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
This pges really should be name List of famous Holocaust victoms, analogically to List of famous Holocaust survivors. How do we do this now, since th former page is aloready a redirect to here? Karol 09:37, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
It's really strange to have to lists in one - by nationality and by occupation, because then everyone would be listed twice. Also, probably occupation should be chosen over nationality, because these people are notable due to their occupations, not due to their nationalities. Karol 16:18, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
A cursory glance indicates that there are numerous names of persons who died either 1) beyond the reach of the Nazi holocaust apparatus (like Walther Benjamin, who died on the French-Spanish frontier in 1940), or 2) after the collapse of the Nazi regime (who can claim that Herbert Marcuse, died 1979, was a "holocaust victim"? furthermore, he is listed as a "composer", as is the physicist Max von Laue, died 1960). Why is the British formula-one racecar engineer Paul Morgan, died 2001, on this list, also as a "composer"?
This is an extremely sloppy and misinformed article and serves only to confuse and advance the cause of mistruth and deception. Delete.
Anne Frank was born in Frankfurt am Main, so technically she was German, even though she lived in Holland from 1933 onwards. Shouldn't she therefore be classed as German in the list and not Dutch? -- SaraFeodorovna 13:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Can people such as Canaris really be considered a Holocaust victim? He and others like him were not presecuted over their ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or political views, but rather ended up shot or in a gas chamber because they broke serious laws. In Britain you probably would have been shot for trying to assassinate Churchill.
I find it offensive that Nazi military officers who were executed after a form of courtmartial are included in this "List of Holocaust victims". The Holocaust is defined in Wikipedia as follows:
Just because an individual was killed or murdered unjustly by the Nazis does not make the person a Holocaust victim. Reinhold Frank, for example, might have been a martyr, but his death was not part of a genocide and therefore he is not properly called a Holocaust victim.
Unless the article is drastically edited, its name needs to be changed to "List of people who lost their lives as a result of Nazism" or something similar. -- Mathew5000 06:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I've cleaned up this page and put the unsorted and commented out entries at Talk:List of victims of Nazism/Sort. Enjoy. — Reinyday, 00:19, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't naming this 'List of victims of the Nazis' be more appropriate? After all, Nazism is a political ideology while the Nazis were a group who carried out actions. I doubt Wikipedia would allow a 'List of victims of Communism'. 75.68.6.81 00:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
A lot of Jews are listed here and their nationality is written as Austrian, Belarusian, etc - Simon Dubnow, Stefan Zweig and others. Austria and Belarus were their places of birth, but isn't it important to note that they were Jews? Is there any reason that they aren't noted as Jews? -- Amir E. Aharoni 15:59, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I do not know how well known he is outside of Unitarian circles, but I would suggest that Rev. Norbert Capek be added to this list. He was the founder of the Czech Unitarian Church and invented the famed Flower Communion in the Unitarian Universalist faith. The details of his death in a Nazi concentration camp are available on his Wikipedia page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.49.238 ( talk) 03:32, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
For some reason the list lacks Soviet victims: Musa Cälil, Dmitry Karbyshev, those who died from hunger during the siege of Leningrad ( Tanya Savicheva, Yakov I. Perelman, Pavel Filonov, Alexey Troitsky) and many more. Should they all be included? -- Blacklake ( talk) 14:34, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
General Maurice Rose's Wikipedia entry states that he was killed after pulling his sidearm while being captured rather than after becoming a POW as stated in this list. Seems to me that one of these references is incorrect. Ericpol ( talk) 20:16, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
I agree. Maurice Rose doesn't belong on this page at all. He was kill in action, not a victim of the Holocaust in the normal meaning. -- Ggeller ( talk) 15:56, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
I would like to know if there is a master list of victims of Nazism published online? I have found and downloaded an 87-page document from Yad Vashem that is a starting list.
However, Wikipedia would allow us to sort by last name, country, and such. I thought that perhaps Wikipedia could work on compiling such a list on Wikipedia. I realize that it would take several pages. Is such a task simply too much? Hoops gza ( talk) 03:40, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Of course not, but we could work towards making it as complete as possible. I suppose that I should have also asked about any such documentation in the form of a book or some other form, anything really that is accessible to the public. Hoops gza ( talk) 05:32, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Removed from the list persons killed in action, fallen soldiers are not usually considered victims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CabbagePower ( talk • contribs) 02:59, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
These lists really need to be alphabetized. Most of the names are just in there randomly. Bkatcher ( talk) 13:06, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
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![]() | This article was previously nominated for deletion. The result of the discussion was keep. |
Should Erwin Rommel be included in this list? It seems a very loose definition of victim that includes a prominent member of the Nazi war machine. With a definition this loose one could argue that Hitler was a victim of Nazism as its failure drove him to suicide. A clear definition would be extremely helpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.200.200 ( talk) 00:53, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Delete Simply too many victims to name. The dozen names currently on the page make up less than 0.000001% of the actual number of victims. Jendeyoung 02:02, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
Well yeah, you got a point. What are we supposed to do with with this one? I suggest that we create an article List of Famous Holocaust victims (or simply renaming this one!). But a list of six millions victims? Is there a database out there where all the victims are registered? (accessible to the public of course) Some suggestions here? -- Jambalaya 02:08, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
List of Famous Holocaust victims is an appropriate name. The current name's pool is too large for an article on Wikipedia, and I highly doubt an internet source exists with the names of millions of people. Jendeyoung 06:02, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
Aren't survivors also victims of the Holocaust? We should rename to List of people killed in the Holocaust, otherwise the survivor's list should just be merged. Carlossuarez46 21:44, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks JonRoma, I was waiting for a response for a while and you produced a well-thought out one. I think that formalizing the proposal is something you should consider; whatever formalization means. I wholeheartedly agree that the Röhm folks are not Holocaust victims by any stretch. I feel fairly confident that the July 20 plotters are not either, nor are general political opponents (white rose, pacifists, communists, even POWs qua POWs). This is inherently my POV however. I have always thought that the Holocaust was the genocidal persecutions and killings by the Nazis. I think one would have to look quite far in Holocaust literature to find references to Röhm as victim, the White Rose or Stauffenburg Circle or other resistance groups. However, groups of political opponents were put through similar and sometimes the same processes: communists, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, POWs, etc. made their way into the concentration and extermination camp system. We do have a category entitled Category:Victims of Nazi justice so maybe this needs to be categoried into Category:People killed in the Holocaust and Category:Holocaust survivors; the latter category will still be somewhat subjective: clearly Elie Wiesel qualifies, but what about Albert Einstein? I suppose that in part depends on whether one considers the Nuremburg Laws to be "part" of the Holocaust, as their passage depriving Einstein of his German citizenship made him a victim. Just a POV rambling but a formal proposal would be a welcome start to cleaning this up. Carlossuarez46 18:53, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
This pges really should be name List of famous Holocaust victoms, analogically to List of famous Holocaust survivors. How do we do this now, since th former page is aloready a redirect to here? Karol 09:37, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
It's really strange to have to lists in one - by nationality and by occupation, because then everyone would be listed twice. Also, probably occupation should be chosen over nationality, because these people are notable due to their occupations, not due to their nationalities. Karol 16:18, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
A cursory glance indicates that there are numerous names of persons who died either 1) beyond the reach of the Nazi holocaust apparatus (like Walther Benjamin, who died on the French-Spanish frontier in 1940), or 2) after the collapse of the Nazi regime (who can claim that Herbert Marcuse, died 1979, was a "holocaust victim"? furthermore, he is listed as a "composer", as is the physicist Max von Laue, died 1960). Why is the British formula-one racecar engineer Paul Morgan, died 2001, on this list, also as a "composer"?
This is an extremely sloppy and misinformed article and serves only to confuse and advance the cause of mistruth and deception. Delete.
Anne Frank was born in Frankfurt am Main, so technically she was German, even though she lived in Holland from 1933 onwards. Shouldn't she therefore be classed as German in the list and not Dutch? -- SaraFeodorovna 13:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Can people such as Canaris really be considered a Holocaust victim? He and others like him were not presecuted over their ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or political views, but rather ended up shot or in a gas chamber because they broke serious laws. In Britain you probably would have been shot for trying to assassinate Churchill.
I find it offensive that Nazi military officers who were executed after a form of courtmartial are included in this "List of Holocaust victims". The Holocaust is defined in Wikipedia as follows:
Just because an individual was killed or murdered unjustly by the Nazis does not make the person a Holocaust victim. Reinhold Frank, for example, might have been a martyr, but his death was not part of a genocide and therefore he is not properly called a Holocaust victim.
Unless the article is drastically edited, its name needs to be changed to "List of people who lost their lives as a result of Nazism" or something similar. -- Mathew5000 06:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I've cleaned up this page and put the unsorted and commented out entries at Talk:List of victims of Nazism/Sort. Enjoy. — Reinyday, 00:19, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't naming this 'List of victims of the Nazis' be more appropriate? After all, Nazism is a political ideology while the Nazis were a group who carried out actions. I doubt Wikipedia would allow a 'List of victims of Communism'. 75.68.6.81 00:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
A lot of Jews are listed here and their nationality is written as Austrian, Belarusian, etc - Simon Dubnow, Stefan Zweig and others. Austria and Belarus were their places of birth, but isn't it important to note that they were Jews? Is there any reason that they aren't noted as Jews? -- Amir E. Aharoni 15:59, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I do not know how well known he is outside of Unitarian circles, but I would suggest that Rev. Norbert Capek be added to this list. He was the founder of the Czech Unitarian Church and invented the famed Flower Communion in the Unitarian Universalist faith. The details of his death in a Nazi concentration camp are available on his Wikipedia page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.49.238 ( talk) 03:32, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
For some reason the list lacks Soviet victims: Musa Cälil, Dmitry Karbyshev, those who died from hunger during the siege of Leningrad ( Tanya Savicheva, Yakov I. Perelman, Pavel Filonov, Alexey Troitsky) and many more. Should they all be included? -- Blacklake ( talk) 14:34, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
General Maurice Rose's Wikipedia entry states that he was killed after pulling his sidearm while being captured rather than after becoming a POW as stated in this list. Seems to me that one of these references is incorrect. Ericpol ( talk) 20:16, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
I agree. Maurice Rose doesn't belong on this page at all. He was kill in action, not a victim of the Holocaust in the normal meaning. -- Ggeller ( talk) 15:56, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
I would like to know if there is a master list of victims of Nazism published online? I have found and downloaded an 87-page document from Yad Vashem that is a starting list.
However, Wikipedia would allow us to sort by last name, country, and such. I thought that perhaps Wikipedia could work on compiling such a list on Wikipedia. I realize that it would take several pages. Is such a task simply too much? Hoops gza ( talk) 03:40, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Of course not, but we could work towards making it as complete as possible. I suppose that I should have also asked about any such documentation in the form of a book or some other form, anything really that is accessible to the public. Hoops gza ( talk) 05:32, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Removed from the list persons killed in action, fallen soldiers are not usually considered victims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CabbagePower ( talk • contribs) 02:59, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
These lists really need to be alphabetized. Most of the names are just in there randomly. Bkatcher ( talk) 13:06, 24 September 2023 (UTC)