This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of surviving Messerschmitt Bf 109s article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Brand new addition to the survivors series welcome
Several notes are in order:
both the HA-1112 & S-199 are Bf 109 just with different designations.
Davegnz ( talk) 18:58, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Category talk:Survivors (aircraft) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RFC bot 14:32, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Some explanatory notes would really help, here! E.g. for the Buchons, I gather that "c/n" must mean 'Construction Number', but this is nowhere stated for certain. Also, with their numbers, I have a hard time fathoming something like "c/n 234 C.4K-169". What's the "C4.K" mean/stand for? And is the "C.4K-169" the Spanish Air Force registration number, or what? Noel (talk) 22:26, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I found this article today without a single mention that the aircraft's name is 'Me-109'. Granted, that might not have been the official name, but considering the wealth of references that indicate that this is the name by which it was commonly called, even amongst German aces themselves, it can be seen that the article is broken. In need of a major fix. Here is the discussion on the Talk page of the main article for the aircraft, where it has been proposed that the very name of the article be changed: Me-109 Talk page.
For consistency, it would be proper for this article to follow whatever decision is made over there.-- Lexi sioz ( talk) 23:33, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
List of surviving Messerschmitt Bf 109s. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:01, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on List of surviving Messerschmitt Bf 109s. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:32, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on List of surviving Messerschmitt Bf 109s. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.deutsches-museum.de/en/sammlungen/verkehr/aeronautics/propeller-planes/aeronautics-hall/messerschmitt-me-109{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.yumodel.in.rs/batajnica_air_show/poland/red3.htm{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.yumodel.in.rs/batajnica_air_show/yugoslav_aeronautical_museum.htm{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.militarymuseum.co.za/main.htmWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:23, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on List of surviving Messerschmitt Bf 109s. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:48, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
The consensus is that the surviving HA-1112 and S-199 airframes be included in this article. One RfC participant suggested deleting the entire article. That it outside the scope of this RfC but can be pursued in an Wikipedia:Articles for deletion discussion.
The surviving HA-1112s and S-199s should only be included on their dedicated articles and do not belong here. This page is for surviving Bf 109s. Even though they are developments of the Bf 109, they are a separate model of airplane. (Even the HA-1112s that have been converted to resemble Bf 109s remain HA-1112s and do not become Bf 109s by virtue of their conversion.)
Furthermore, it is confusing and redundant to have them listed in two places, and of the two options it makes much more sense for them to be listed on their dedicated articles. – Noha307 ( talk) 23:32, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
Should the surviving HA-1112 and S-199 airframes be included in this article or only on their respective dedicated articles? – Noha307 ( talk) 04:55, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
"many exceptions exist for aircraft"I've never heard of this, please provide a link.
"List articles for aircraft variants also exist"Please see WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS.
"All of these list articles stem from a notable topic"Doesn't matter, to my mind. Standalone topics have to be themselves notable, otherwise we could have one notable topic and hundreds of lists built from it, like "list of dresses that Queen Victoria wore." Chris Troutman ( talk) 18:15, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Something that strikes me as odd is the Yugoslav G-2 survivor with bulges over the tops of the wings. I thought those bulges were for the larger tires introduced on the G-3/G-4 series? Isn't this aircraft infact a G-4? 198.190.156.241 ( talk) 19:47, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
The description of the 109 states that it is of the "E-3" variant, when the canopy would indicate it is of the E-4 variant (E-3s had a more rounder canopy with metal bars not fully up to the top of the canopy, where as the E-4 has metal at the very top creating a square canopy). The Wikipedia article on Bf 109 variants also states that this is an E-4 variant. A video from the airshow where this 109 was flown also states that it is an E-4. RogueMD20 ( talk) 01:10, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
The Cavanaugh sadly closed permanently on 1 January 2024, and announced that all of its aircraft would be moved to North Texas Regional Airport in Denison, Texas, but with no publicly disclosed plan to return the collection to public display. [1] I've been adding this information to the various Wikipedia pages that discuss the Cavanaugh collection, and I'd like to do the same here, but the listing for the Cavanaugh aircraft in this article also says it's based at a different museum in Germany! The entry appears to have been sloppily edited with some information that doesn't make sense because the context seems to be missing. Can someone straighten this out? I don't want to edit or move a reference to the wrong aircraft. Carguychris ( talk) 17:48, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
References
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of surviving Messerschmitt Bf 109s article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Brand new addition to the survivors series welcome
Several notes are in order:
both the HA-1112 & S-199 are Bf 109 just with different designations.
Davegnz ( talk) 18:58, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Category talk:Survivors (aircraft) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RFC bot 14:32, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Some explanatory notes would really help, here! E.g. for the Buchons, I gather that "c/n" must mean 'Construction Number', but this is nowhere stated for certain. Also, with their numbers, I have a hard time fathoming something like "c/n 234 C.4K-169". What's the "C4.K" mean/stand for? And is the "C.4K-169" the Spanish Air Force registration number, or what? Noel (talk) 22:26, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I found this article today without a single mention that the aircraft's name is 'Me-109'. Granted, that might not have been the official name, but considering the wealth of references that indicate that this is the name by which it was commonly called, even amongst German aces themselves, it can be seen that the article is broken. In need of a major fix. Here is the discussion on the Talk page of the main article for the aircraft, where it has been proposed that the very name of the article be changed: Me-109 Talk page.
For consistency, it would be proper for this article to follow whatever decision is made over there.-- Lexi sioz ( talk) 23:33, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
List of surviving Messerschmitt Bf 109s. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:01, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on List of surviving Messerschmitt Bf 109s. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:32, 23 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on List of surviving Messerschmitt Bf 109s. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.deutsches-museum.de/en/sammlungen/verkehr/aeronautics/propeller-planes/aeronautics-hall/messerschmitt-me-109{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.yumodel.in.rs/batajnica_air_show/poland/red3.htm{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.yumodel.in.rs/batajnica_air_show/yugoslav_aeronautical_museum.htm{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.militarymuseum.co.za/main.htmWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:23, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on List of surviving Messerschmitt Bf 109s. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:48, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
The consensus is that the surviving HA-1112 and S-199 airframes be included in this article. One RfC participant suggested deleting the entire article. That it outside the scope of this RfC but can be pursued in an Wikipedia:Articles for deletion discussion.
The surviving HA-1112s and S-199s should only be included on their dedicated articles and do not belong here. This page is for surviving Bf 109s. Even though they are developments of the Bf 109, they are a separate model of airplane. (Even the HA-1112s that have been converted to resemble Bf 109s remain HA-1112s and do not become Bf 109s by virtue of their conversion.)
Furthermore, it is confusing and redundant to have them listed in two places, and of the two options it makes much more sense for them to be listed on their dedicated articles. – Noha307 ( talk) 23:32, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
Should the surviving HA-1112 and S-199 airframes be included in this article or only on their respective dedicated articles? – Noha307 ( talk) 04:55, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
"many exceptions exist for aircraft"I've never heard of this, please provide a link.
"List articles for aircraft variants also exist"Please see WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS.
"All of these list articles stem from a notable topic"Doesn't matter, to my mind. Standalone topics have to be themselves notable, otherwise we could have one notable topic and hundreds of lists built from it, like "list of dresses that Queen Victoria wore." Chris Troutman ( talk) 18:15, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Something that strikes me as odd is the Yugoslav G-2 survivor with bulges over the tops of the wings. I thought those bulges were for the larger tires introduced on the G-3/G-4 series? Isn't this aircraft infact a G-4? 198.190.156.241 ( talk) 19:47, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
The description of the 109 states that it is of the "E-3" variant, when the canopy would indicate it is of the E-4 variant (E-3s had a more rounder canopy with metal bars not fully up to the top of the canopy, where as the E-4 has metal at the very top creating a square canopy). The Wikipedia article on Bf 109 variants also states that this is an E-4 variant. A video from the airshow where this 109 was flown also states that it is an E-4. RogueMD20 ( talk) 01:10, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
The Cavanaugh sadly closed permanently on 1 January 2024, and announced that all of its aircraft would be moved to North Texas Regional Airport in Denison, Texas, but with no publicly disclosed plan to return the collection to public display. [1] I've been adding this information to the various Wikipedia pages that discuss the Cavanaugh collection, and I'd like to do the same here, but the listing for the Cavanaugh aircraft in this article also says it's based at a different museum in Germany! The entry appears to have been sloppily edited with some information that doesn't make sense because the context seems to be missing. Can someone straighten this out? I don't want to edit or move a reference to the wrong aircraft. Carguychris ( talk) 17:48, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
References