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I don't even get why half these things are so arbitrarily called 'Satanic Ritual abuse" allegations. Many of them don't even claim any kind of Satanistic leanings. For one example, I loooked up the "Superior Universal Alignment" cult, they are a freaking UFO cult, not one with satanic elements. It's as if people just arbitarily label any cult that does harmful things "Satanic"{even if just 'alledged" to have done ritual murder/abuse}, when most of them don't even consider themselves satanists. This is why Satanists all over the world are so persecuted, because of even suppoedly even-handed secular articles and reports on 'alledged ritual abuse" allmost always terming it "satanic". This is absolutely absurd and unjust stupidity. To my understanding there is but ONE person that even called himself a Satanist or referanced any material from the Satanist religion/philosophy whom has done any real harm, that was Richard Ramirez{The Night Stalker serial killer}. So why does this bullshit persists even today?-- Iconoclastithon ( talk) 20:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I have also looked them up and I am not sure either.
I wonder if it is true or not, the conviction and the kookiness of the founder notwithstanding.
See http://www.apologeticsindex.org/s52.html
And
http://marcianitosverdes.haaan.com/2016/05/los-orgenes-de-lineamiento-universal-superior/
for more info and photos.
Contents of the page have momentarily been pasted from satanic ritual abuse, which is currently protected from editing. Please see Talk:Satanic ritual abuse#Spin-out news clippings for a discussion. A list of notable events, particularly a lengthy one, is more appropriate as a separate 'list of' article than keeping the same list in the main body. Contents are identical to the extant page, barring the paste of some old information. WLU ( talk) 17:35, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have access to sources that detail the result of the family appeal? I can find plenty of sources detailing they did indeed appeal and that the case was adjourned until July of 2007, but I have not been able to find the results of the appeal. Vassyana ( talk) 14:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Additionally, with reference to this case; there were and are a number of references by Cynthia Owen where she alleges a ritual aspect to the crimes; none of these appear in this section on the case. Without these, is it's inclusion in this article justified ? I'm not suggesting it be removed; just that the relevant references/allegations of 'ritual' aspects need to be added if it is to remain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.77.99.158 ( talk) 22:08, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
here's one of the places where Cynthia Owen alleges that she was ritually abused - https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/michael-clifford/frank-mullen-i-couldnt-leave-a-legacy-like-that-behind-me-396206.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8084:51BC:9A00:310F:2458:201A:2D46 ( talk) 18:33, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
I have added some refs to the article on Australia and Belgium. ResearchEditor ( talk) 19:32, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
New info for the Hosanna investigation [1]; trial is to start this month apparently. WLU ( talk) 16:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
There has been some activity on the SRA in the Netherlands page. I have re-worked and merged the content to this page, in the Netherlands section. I don't believe there is any need for a separate page and have done my best to merge all the content that was relevant from the SRA in the N page. Discuss? WLU ( talk) 17:46, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
{Undent}The page is about SRA allegations throughout the world. It was in keeping with the policies and guidelines of wikipedia. I have repeatedly explained why the original text is problematic and how my edits are designed to bring this in keeping with the manual of style. I have repeatedly mentioned content forks are not suitable for wikipedia, and now there is a content fork on the same page. Please cease, there is no reason for the original text to stay on the page, and you do not own the original text, or the idea of SRA in the Netherlands. The reader does not care, and should not see 'your' text and 'my' text. It does not matter what the summary is of, what matters are the policies, guidelines and sources. You have not indicated that there is any problem with the text on the page. Accordingly I am going to revert. WLU ( talk) 15:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Please note:
- If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed for profit by others, do not submit it.
The previous section is quite messy. Let's start a new one. Who thinks the Netherlands issue is sufficiently lengthy to be spun out to a new article? I for one do not - the new page would be stubby and there's not a whole lot there that is unique enough to not be covered here. The only extra feature I can see is that it was reported in peer-reviewed journals, but aside from that it's ultimately not a lengthy page and given satanic ritual abuse's status as a historical moral panic, it's unlikely to have any new information added. WLU ( talk) 21:01, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes put your head in the sand like an ostrich. More and more I get the idea that Wikipedia is not a serious encyclopedia with scientifically based articles, but a kindergarten or even worse a mental institution. It is very sad that laymen can destroy serious contributions in Wikipedia. Contributors like WLU seem to think that they own articles and that they can undo scientifically based contributions, which do not fit their own point of view or which they not seem to comprehend. Well, they are wrong! Criminologist1963 ( talk) 11:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Everything you say is true. However, the point is that you should say that to yourself, not to me. Change the world and begin with yourself. Criminologist1963 ( talk) 16:59, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Do what you have to do. I will report you too then. Criminologist1963 ( talk) 23:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
There's a couple "satanic ritual abuse" cases that occurred in Canada, at least. Why no section? AllGloryToTheHypnotoad ( talk) 01:50, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Can the tags be removed from the Netherlands section? Any objections? WLU (t) (c) (rules - simple rules) 15:43, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Why is it that this article claims evidence was found of SRA, when Prosecutor Freitas was the only one who claimed there was, despite the FBI -- according to all offered sources -- NOT finding evidence of pentagrams, animal blood, et cetera?
Talk about misinformation.. 12.96.43.96 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 14:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC).
A few years ago I read in Swedish Metro about a Satanic murder in Moscow in which a group of Satanic teenagers killed and cannibalised a number of other teenagers, one of which was stabbed 666 times as part of a ritual. I don't remember the details. Does anybody else have any memory of hearing about this?
Najhoant ( talk) 21:20, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
(from Talk:Satanic ritual abuse in The Netherlands, now a redirect WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 14:00, 6 April 2009 (UTC)}
The article about satanic ritual abuse is both neutral and historical. This is exactly how the discussion developed in the Netherlands.
Polite Woman 11:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
(merged from Talk:Satanic ritual abuse in the Netherlands WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 14:06, 6 April 2009 (UTC))
Will this article be merged into Satanic ritual abuse (SRA) so that the tag in SRA about focusing too much in the USA may be removed, eliminating the content fork as well? —16:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
As far as I remember, the allegations sexual abuse in Oude Pekela in the Netherlands were generally not described as satanic ritual. Ritual satanism may have been an aspect by some of the believers in the allegations, but it was not prominent. Much more prominent was the involvement of a clown. Andries ( talk) 18:03, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Editors note generalized discussion affecting all ritual abuse cases, at Talk:Satanic_ritual_abuse#Rename_discussion. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 14:59, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
This seems to be inverted in sense, but is a direct quote from the report !
Report in GoogleBooks
Better to remove it altogether ?
The only way I can make sense of it is that "the first judgement was unfortunate, so it is consequently unfortunate that action had to be taken to get it dismissed". At the moment, it seems as though the report is supporting the first judgement !
Isaiah 5:20 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil"
It is unfortunate that very often when English is unclear, ambiguous or misunderstood, the meaning becomes diametrically opposite ! Is that a named feature in linguistics ?
--
195.137.93.171 (
talk)
09:56, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
At what point will we add the Mohler case? One disturbing aspect is the extradition from Florida of one of the accused. Ritual murder is one allegation made in the media but not being prosecuted by the state. Jared Mohler - one web item reports trial date now moved a third time into Feb 2012 per http://www.kmbc.com/news/27587051/detail.html Darrel (of Sweet Springs FL) and Burrell have tentative Oct 2011 dates in Lexington MO. For the protection of the civil rights of the accused, would federal authority be able to move the trials to another state? Question: have any of the accused sons of the patriarch had deviant behavior convictions subsequent to the alleged 1980's events? G. Robert Shiplett 13:35, 25 May 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grshiplett ( talk • contribs)
The UK section appeared biased in that it included several false allegations and none of the cases where people were convicted based on significant corroborative evidence. There are others too (Ealing 1993- the "devil church"; 4 in one extended family found guilty; Pembroke 1994- six men guilty, doubt cast on one or two of the convictions later) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.23.222 ( talk) 19:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Are there any publicly available sources for the Pembroke or Ealing ones? I think so, last time I checked there is an article about both detailing the convictions still available somewhere on the Independent site. Both are described (by both skeptics and believers) as "SRA" or "RA". The Plymouth M Family, GM, EM, PM, EA, etc. has been discussed publicly in relation to ritualistic abuse as well. It is mentioned as "the West country case" in pro-RA literature while the anti-SRA British False Memory Society speaks of "a now septuagenarian grandmother" (i.e. EM, this was 2003) claiming her innocence along with the rest of the family in their newsletter. Swindon B family, proven beyond doubt by DNA on the incestuous children, since 2010 widely believed on the Penhill Estate & further afield to be the subject of a certain "true life story" misery memoir book. I have a personal source who grew up with the mother up in Penhill Anfield satanic abuse was in the Liverpool Daily Post, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.175.192.59 ( talk) 03:36, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Is there a case for a main article on the Kidwelly case and Colin Batley? Billlion ( talk) 08:04, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
The lower court in Satakunta, Finland has just convicted Anneli Auer and her "boyfriend" to 7 and 10 years in prison for something that seems to be satanic ritual abuse. (See fi:Ulvilan surma) Unfortunately all the court proceedings are secret for the next 60 years. The police also claim that she murdered her husband because of "satanic" motives, but the Finnish courts disagreed.
-- Petri Krohn ( talk) 21:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
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Wow! Under "Canada", there is utterly no mention of the Prescott case or the Cornwall sex ring case. These were SRA allegations that went on forever; one was even mentioned in the House of Commons! http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_presc.htm I have no time to add this now, as there are so many sources; anyone else want to check it out? AllGloryToTheHypnotoad ( talk) 16:39, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
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I don't even get why half these things are so arbitrarily called 'Satanic Ritual abuse" allegations. Many of them don't even claim any kind of Satanistic leanings. For one example, I loooked up the "Superior Universal Alignment" cult, they are a freaking UFO cult, not one with satanic elements. It's as if people just arbitarily label any cult that does harmful things "Satanic"{even if just 'alledged" to have done ritual murder/abuse}, when most of them don't even consider themselves satanists. This is why Satanists all over the world are so persecuted, because of even suppoedly even-handed secular articles and reports on 'alledged ritual abuse" allmost always terming it "satanic". This is absolutely absurd and unjust stupidity. To my understanding there is but ONE person that even called himself a Satanist or referanced any material from the Satanist religion/philosophy whom has done any real harm, that was Richard Ramirez{The Night Stalker serial killer}. So why does this bullshit persists even today?-- Iconoclastithon ( talk) 20:05, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
I have also looked them up and I am not sure either.
I wonder if it is true or not, the conviction and the kookiness of the founder notwithstanding.
See http://www.apologeticsindex.org/s52.html
And
http://marcianitosverdes.haaan.com/2016/05/los-orgenes-de-lineamiento-universal-superior/
for more info and photos.
Contents of the page have momentarily been pasted from satanic ritual abuse, which is currently protected from editing. Please see Talk:Satanic ritual abuse#Spin-out news clippings for a discussion. A list of notable events, particularly a lengthy one, is more appropriate as a separate 'list of' article than keeping the same list in the main body. Contents are identical to the extant page, barring the paste of some old information. WLU ( talk) 17:35, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have access to sources that detail the result of the family appeal? I can find plenty of sources detailing they did indeed appeal and that the case was adjourned until July of 2007, but I have not been able to find the results of the appeal. Vassyana ( talk) 14:54, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
Additionally, with reference to this case; there were and are a number of references by Cynthia Owen where she alleges a ritual aspect to the crimes; none of these appear in this section on the case. Without these, is it's inclusion in this article justified ? I'm not suggesting it be removed; just that the relevant references/allegations of 'ritual' aspects need to be added if it is to remain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.77.99.158 ( talk) 22:08, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
here's one of the places where Cynthia Owen alleges that she was ritually abused - https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/michael-clifford/frank-mullen-i-couldnt-leave-a-legacy-like-that-behind-me-396206.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8084:51BC:9A00:310F:2458:201A:2D46 ( talk) 18:33, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
I have added some refs to the article on Australia and Belgium. ResearchEditor ( talk) 19:32, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
New info for the Hosanna investigation [1]; trial is to start this month apparently. WLU ( talk) 16:22, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
There has been some activity on the SRA in the Netherlands page. I have re-worked and merged the content to this page, in the Netherlands section. I don't believe there is any need for a separate page and have done my best to merge all the content that was relevant from the SRA in the N page. Discuss? WLU ( talk) 17:46, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
{Undent}The page is about SRA allegations throughout the world. It was in keeping with the policies and guidelines of wikipedia. I have repeatedly explained why the original text is problematic and how my edits are designed to bring this in keeping with the manual of style. I have repeatedly mentioned content forks are not suitable for wikipedia, and now there is a content fork on the same page. Please cease, there is no reason for the original text to stay on the page, and you do not own the original text, or the idea of SRA in the Netherlands. The reader does not care, and should not see 'your' text and 'my' text. It does not matter what the summary is of, what matters are the policies, guidelines and sources. You have not indicated that there is any problem with the text on the page. Accordingly I am going to revert. WLU ( talk) 15:43, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Please note:
- If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed for profit by others, do not submit it.
The previous section is quite messy. Let's start a new one. Who thinks the Netherlands issue is sufficiently lengthy to be spun out to a new article? I for one do not - the new page would be stubby and there's not a whole lot there that is unique enough to not be covered here. The only extra feature I can see is that it was reported in peer-reviewed journals, but aside from that it's ultimately not a lengthy page and given satanic ritual abuse's status as a historical moral panic, it's unlikely to have any new information added. WLU ( talk) 21:01, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Yes put your head in the sand like an ostrich. More and more I get the idea that Wikipedia is not a serious encyclopedia with scientifically based articles, but a kindergarten or even worse a mental institution. It is very sad that laymen can destroy serious contributions in Wikipedia. Contributors like WLU seem to think that they own articles and that they can undo scientifically based contributions, which do not fit their own point of view or which they not seem to comprehend. Well, they are wrong! Criminologist1963 ( talk) 11:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Everything you say is true. However, the point is that you should say that to yourself, not to me. Change the world and begin with yourself. Criminologist1963 ( talk) 16:59, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Do what you have to do. I will report you too then. Criminologist1963 ( talk) 23:04, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
There's a couple "satanic ritual abuse" cases that occurred in Canada, at least. Why no section? AllGloryToTheHypnotoad ( talk) 01:50, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Can the tags be removed from the Netherlands section? Any objections? WLU (t) (c) (rules - simple rules) 15:43, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Why is it that this article claims evidence was found of SRA, when Prosecutor Freitas was the only one who claimed there was, despite the FBI -- according to all offered sources -- NOT finding evidence of pentagrams, animal blood, et cetera?
Talk about misinformation.. 12.96.43.96 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 14:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC).
A few years ago I read in Swedish Metro about a Satanic murder in Moscow in which a group of Satanic teenagers killed and cannibalised a number of other teenagers, one of which was stabbed 666 times as part of a ritual. I don't remember the details. Does anybody else have any memory of hearing about this?
Najhoant ( talk) 21:20, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
(from Talk:Satanic ritual abuse in The Netherlands, now a redirect WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 14:00, 6 April 2009 (UTC)}
The article about satanic ritual abuse is both neutral and historical. This is exactly how the discussion developed in the Netherlands.
Polite Woman 11:31, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
(merged from Talk:Satanic ritual abuse in the Netherlands WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 14:06, 6 April 2009 (UTC))
Will this article be merged into Satanic ritual abuse (SRA) so that the tag in SRA about focusing too much in the USA may be removed, eliminating the content fork as well? —16:27, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
As far as I remember, the allegations sexual abuse in Oude Pekela in the Netherlands were generally not described as satanic ritual. Ritual satanism may have been an aspect by some of the believers in the allegations, but it was not prominent. Much more prominent was the involvement of a clown. Andries ( talk) 18:03, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
Editors note generalized discussion affecting all ritual abuse cases, at Talk:Satanic_ritual_abuse#Rename_discussion. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 14:59, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
This seems to be inverted in sense, but is a direct quote from the report !
Report in GoogleBooks
Better to remove it altogether ?
The only way I can make sense of it is that "the first judgement was unfortunate, so it is consequently unfortunate that action had to be taken to get it dismissed". At the moment, it seems as though the report is supporting the first judgement !
Isaiah 5:20 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil"
It is unfortunate that very often when English is unclear, ambiguous or misunderstood, the meaning becomes diametrically opposite ! Is that a named feature in linguistics ?
--
195.137.93.171 (
talk)
09:56, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
At what point will we add the Mohler case? One disturbing aspect is the extradition from Florida of one of the accused. Ritual murder is one allegation made in the media but not being prosecuted by the state. Jared Mohler - one web item reports trial date now moved a third time into Feb 2012 per http://www.kmbc.com/news/27587051/detail.html Darrel (of Sweet Springs FL) and Burrell have tentative Oct 2011 dates in Lexington MO. For the protection of the civil rights of the accused, would federal authority be able to move the trials to another state? Question: have any of the accused sons of the patriarch had deviant behavior convictions subsequent to the alleged 1980's events? G. Robert Shiplett 13:35, 25 May 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grshiplett ( talk • contribs)
The UK section appeared biased in that it included several false allegations and none of the cases where people were convicted based on significant corroborative evidence. There are others too (Ealing 1993- the "devil church"; 4 in one extended family found guilty; Pembroke 1994- six men guilty, doubt cast on one or two of the convictions later) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.23.222 ( talk) 19:41, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Are there any publicly available sources for the Pembroke or Ealing ones? I think so, last time I checked there is an article about both detailing the convictions still available somewhere on the Independent site. Both are described (by both skeptics and believers) as "SRA" or "RA". The Plymouth M Family, GM, EM, PM, EA, etc. has been discussed publicly in relation to ritualistic abuse as well. It is mentioned as "the West country case" in pro-RA literature while the anti-SRA British False Memory Society speaks of "a now septuagenarian grandmother" (i.e. EM, this was 2003) claiming her innocence along with the rest of the family in their newsletter. Swindon B family, proven beyond doubt by DNA on the incestuous children, since 2010 widely believed on the Penhill Estate & further afield to be the subject of a certain "true life story" misery memoir book. I have a personal source who grew up with the mother up in Penhill Anfield satanic abuse was in the Liverpool Daily Post, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.175.192.59 ( talk) 03:36, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
Is there a case for a main article on the Kidwelly case and Colin Batley? Billlion ( talk) 08:04, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
The lower court in Satakunta, Finland has just convicted Anneli Auer and her "boyfriend" to 7 and 10 years in prison for something that seems to be satanic ritual abuse. (See fi:Ulvilan surma) Unfortunately all the court proceedings are secret for the next 60 years. The police also claim that she murdered her husband because of "satanic" motives, but the Finnish courts disagreed.
-- Petri Krohn ( talk) 21:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of satanic ritual abuse allegations's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Macleans":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 23:47, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Done
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Cyberbot II has detected links on List of satanic ritual abuse allegations which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
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Wow! Under "Canada", there is utterly no mention of the Prescott case or the Cornwall sex ring case. These were SRA allegations that went on forever; one was even mentioned in the House of Commons! http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_presc.htm I have no time to add this now, as there are so many sources; anyone else want to check it out? AllGloryToTheHypnotoad ( talk) 16:39, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
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