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The University of Strathclyde only became a university in 1964. It is true that its oldest precusor, Anderson's Institution, can be traced back to 1796, but it was not a university at that time. It claimed the title of University from 1828, but was forced to change its name in 1887 as it had no legal authority to use the name. Jonathan A Jones ( talk) 12:30, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
To repeat, even if one accepts the (not widely accepted) claim that "Anderson's University" was a university even the institution itself accepted that it wasn't a university in 1887 when it changed its name. Thus the institutional continuity of the University of Strathclyde as a university can only be traced back to 1964. Jonathan A Jones ( talk) 20:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
See for example here: [1]. Some quotes: "Strathclyde University originated as Anderson's Institution in 1796. In 1828, the institution took on the title of Anderson's University, partially fulfilling Anderson's vision of two universities in the city of Glasgow. The name was changed in 1887, to reflect the fact that there was no legal authority for the use of the title of 'university'. As a result the Glasgow and West of Scotland Technical College was formed, becoming the Royal Technical College in 1912, and the Royal College of Science and Technology in 1956.In 1964, the institution merged with the Scottish College of Commerce and received a royal charter, granting it university status under the name of the University of Strathclyde." and "Until 1964 the institution was primarily a technological institute concentrating on science and engineering teaching and research. Undergraduate students could qualify for degrees of the University of Glasgow or the equivalent Associate of the Royal College of Science and Technology (ARCST).". Clearly not a university until 1964. Jonathan A Jones ( talk) 10:44, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Date of foundation or establishment is the common criteria and should be used for defining. Below are some of the issues which arise if only the date of royal charter is taken into account.
KCL: "In 2003, the College was granted degree-awarding powers in its own right, as opposed to through the University of London, by the Privy Council. This power remained unexercised until 2007, when the College announced that all students starting courses from September 2007 onwards would be awarded degrees conferred by King's itself, rather than by the University of London. The new certificates however still make reference to the fact that King's is a constituent college of the University of London." Also, Lampeter was St David's "College" in 1822 ("The university was founded in 1822 as St David's College (Coleg Dewi Sant), becoming St David's University College (Coleg Prifysgol Dewi Sant) in 1971, when it became part of the federal University of Wales")("In 2010 it merged with Trinity University College (under its 1822 charter) to create the University of Wales, Trinity Saint David") and so it technically became an university in 2010!
Durham was granted Royal charter in 1837 and NOT 1832.
Bangor received RC in 1885 and NOT 1884
London School of Economics: "The London School of Economics was founded in 1895 by Beatrice and Sidney Webb, initially funded by a bequest of £20,000[24][25] from the estate of Henry Hunt Hutchinson. Hutchinson, a lawyer[24] and member of the Fabian Society, left the money in trust, to be put "towards advancing its [The Fabian Society's] objects in any way they [the trustees] deem advisable". The five trustees were Sidney Webb, Edward Pease, Constance Hutchinson, William de Mattos and William Clark. The LSE records that the proposal to establish the school was conceived during a breakfast meeting on 4 August 1894, between the Webbs, Graham Wallas and George Bernard Shaw. The proposal was accepted by the trustees in February 1895 and LSE held its first classes in October of that year, in rooms at 9 John Street, Adelphi, in the City of Westminster." It was a "School" and not an University all this time till,
"The school joined the federal University of London in 1900, becoming the university's Faculty of Economics and awarding degrees of the University from 1902.[28] Expanding rapidly over the following years, the school moved initially to the nearby 10 Adelphi Terrace, then to Clare Market and Houghton Street. The foundation stone of the Old Building, on Houghton Street, was laid by King George V in 1920; the building was opened in 1922." therefore it cannot be classified as a separate university. and it never received its Royal Charter.
Royal Holoway "Royal Holloway, University of London (RHUL) is a constituent "college" of the University of London." Again, not an "University"
Aberystwyth University has NOT received Royal charter. "Founded in 1872 as University College Wales, Aberystwyth became a founder member of the University of Wales in 1894 and changed its name to the University College of Wales, Aberystwyth. In the mid-1990s, the university again changed its name to the University of Wales, Aberystwyth. On 1 September 2007, the University of Wales ceased to be a federal university and Aberystwyth became independent again. However, students enrolled from the 2009/2010 academic year onwards, or whose first year of study was in the 2008/2009 academic year, can choose to receive their degree from the University of Wales or Aberystwyth University."
Queen Mary: this is the biggest issue. "In April 1929 the College Council decided it would take the steps towards applying to the Privy Council for a Royal Charter, but on the advice of the Drapers' Company first devised a scheme for development and expansion, which recommended amongst other things to reamalgamate the People's Palace and the College, with guaranteed provision of the Queen's Hall for recreational purposes, offering at least freedom of governance if not in space"
"Queen Mary and Westfield College was established by Act of Parliament and the granting of a Royal charter in 1989, following the merger of Queen Mary College (incorporated by charter in 1934) and Westfield College (incorporated in 1933).[1] The Charter has subsequently been revised three times: in 1995 (as a result of the merger of the College with the Barts and the London School of Medicine and Dentistry); in 2008 (as a result of the Privy Council awarding the College Degree Awarding Powers; and in July 2010 (following a governance review)."
So this received its royal charter in 1934/1989 and NOT 1885.
So clearly all the universities are listed on dates of foundation and NOT on royal charter. So if you need, please create a page separately as mentioned above for universities based on RC. 101.212.67.232 ( talk) 14:56, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
A recent edit changed the title of a section from " Latin America and the Caribbean" to " South America and the Caribbean." No rationale was given, but apparently it was because Mexican universities are listed under North America. The new section division, however, leaves the geographically North American universities in Guatemala and Panama in the new South America and the Caribbean section.
Latin America seems a culturally consistent unit when discussing universities, but in that framework the Mexican universities should probably be moved there. Neither division is obviously right, so before moving any of the entries I'd like to hear comments on the recent edit. -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 21:00, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Comments would be appreciated at Talk:List of the oldest schools in the world. Chengdu Shishi High School is on the same site as a school that is more than 2,000 years old. It has been removed and added by several editors in the past. There's a discussion about whether it deserves inclusion. -- Lo2u ( T • C) 12:03, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
The University of Pennsylvania should be included in the short list of schools for the United States. While it is not the oldest college, Penn was the first institution of higher learning in the U.S. to use the name 'university'. As well, it was the first college to found a graduate school (School of Medicine, 1756). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.207.123 ( talk) 16:24, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
They are keep changing my edit without any claims. İt has verified sources that it was founded in 1453 and recognized as university. Please check those pages;
they are valid and updated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KazekageTR ( talk • contribs) 15:36, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
The case of Leuven has been discussed extensively; see the talk page archives. See also Note 5 on the main page. Jonathan A Jones ( talk) 22:55, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
Some elements on the permanence of higher studies in Paris.
So, there is a higher education continuity in Paris since the Middle Ages - a six-month gap in 1793 for Medicine, a 18-month gap in 1793-1794 for Sciences and Letters, a 10-year gap for Law, a 16-year gap for Theology . 90.16.170.216 ( talk) 16:18, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
The main chart includes many universities that were closed for a few years by revolution or suchlike. But French universities - many ancient - are excluded because they were closed during the revolution. This is grossly unfair, and it seems that other universities eg Louvain, Belgium have been similarly tarnished. If some expert doesn't clean this up, I will do the best I can.
I suggest that a 20 year hiatus under extreme circumstances should be allowed. 24.108.58.1 ( talk) 04:15, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
There is a need for proper definition of the word "Oldest". Is it the date of formal proclamation or is it the starting date of operation? Whether an entity calls itself an university while it is not recognized by statutory agencies/institutions in that country/worldwide are to be included or excluded?
There are multitude of institutions which may not enjoy federal recognition but carry the word university. This list conveniently neglects various important factors while calling for a single line definition that all universities took form from one of the three universities. It is important to stand corrected that if such a definition is valid, in such a case it is for European universities only. This list needs to be renamed suitably to geographically centered list of Universities - Chronology
Abhijith Jayanthi — Preceding undated comment added 19:55, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
This article deliberately ignores the following issues:
"Some regard the University of Al Karaouine in Fez, Morocco, which was founded in 859, to be the world's oldest continuously operating academic degree-granting higher education institution. Others cite the University of Nalanda in Bihar, India, founded in 427, as the oldest one. The first European university to be established was Bologna in 1088, then in 1167 the University of Oxford, followed by the University of Cambridge in 1209 and the University of Paris in 1231."
Burnes, Bernard (17 January 2013). "The changing face of English universities: reinventing collegiality for the twenty-first century".
Studies in Higher Education: 1–22.
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Adding the above source would go a long way towards maintaining neutrality. Are there any objections?
- A1candidate ( talk) 14:21, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
No. There are may be many ancient higher-learning institutions, but only one of them granted academic degrees in the Islamic world - the Madrasa. - A1candidate ( talk) 17:35, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
A1candidate, since you found it worthwhile to rehash a source which we have already discussed in August 13, you certainly don't mind if I repost my sources, either. Gun Powder Ma ( talk) 18:49, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
@Aravind V R - I agree that the article should be renamed, and I see no reason why there is such a strong desire to exclude all universities that happened to be briefly suspended at some point in history.
@Gun Powder Ma - Your sources do not support your claim.
@Jonathan A Jones - Could you tell me in which year was the University of Paris founded?
- A1candidate ( talk) 20:42, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
"Although its exact date of foundation is unclear, there is evidence of teaching as far back as 1096, making it the oldest university in the English-speaking world, and the second-oldest surviving university in the world, after the University of Bologna. It grew rapidly from 1167 when Henry II banned English students from attending the University of Paris."
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link)Madrasa, in modern usage, the name of an institution of learning where the Islamic sciences are taught, i.e. a college for higher studies, as opposed to an elementary school of traditional type ( kuttab); in mediaeval usage, essentially a college of law in which the other Islamic sciences, including literary and philosophical ones, were ancillary subjects only. (Pedersen, J.; Rahman, Munibur; Hillenbrand, R.: "Madrasa", in Encyclopaedia of Islam, 2nd edition, Brill, 2010)
Madrasa (Medresse), im klassischen Islam gildenartige Institution der höheren Bildung, eine Weiterentwicklung der masǧid (" Moschee") und der ihr angeschlossenen Herberge (ḫān). Der Unterricht fand in der Moschee statt, während die Herberge den Studenten als Unterkunft diente...Nur eine Bildungsstätte wie die Madrasa konnte in der islamischen Welt den Doktorgrad verleihen, denn die wohltätige Stiftung ( waqf) war im Islam, der im Unterschied zur christlichen Welt das Rechtskonzept der " juristischen Person" nicht kannte, die einzige Institution, die, rechtlich gesehen, von "überpersönlicher" Dauer war. Dies ist der eigentliche Grund, warum es in der muslimischen Welt bis zum 19. Jh. nicht zur Gründung von Universitäten kam. ( Lexikon des Mittelalters: "Madrasa", Vol. 6, Cols 65–67, Metzler, Stuttgart, [1977]–1999)
A madrasa is a college of Islamic law. The madrasa was an educational institution in which Islamic law ( fiqh) was taught according to one or more Sunni rites: Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanafi, or Hanbali. It was supported by an endowment or charitable trust ( waqf) that provided for at least one chair for one professor of law, income for other faculty or staff, scholarships for students, and funds for the maintenance of the building. Madrasas contained lodgings for the professor and some of his students. Subjects other than law were frequently taught in madrasas, and even Sufi seances were held in them, but there could be no madrasa without law as technically the major subject. ( Meri, Josef W. (ed.): Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, A–K, Routledge, 2006, ISBN 978-0-415-96691-7, p. 457 (entry "madrasa"))
madrasah, ( Arabic: "school":) Turkish Medrese, in Muslim countries, an institution of higher education. The madrasah functioned until the 20th century as a theological seminary and law school, with a curriculum centred on the Qurʾān. In addition to Islamic theology and law, Arabic grammar and literature, mathematics, logic, and, in some cases, natural science were studied in madrasahs. ( Encyclopædia Britannica: "madrasah", 2012, retrieved 31 July 2012)
Over the course of the Islamic Middle Period (1000–1500), these madrasas became typical features of the urban landscapes of Near Eastern and central and southwest Asian cities, and their proliferation was one of the seminal features of medieval Islamic religious life. Even so, the institutions themselves seem to have had little or no impact on the character or the processes of the transmission of knowledge. For all that the transmission of knowledge might take place within an institution labeled a madrasa, and be supported by the endowments attached to that institution, the principles that guided the activities of teachers and students, and the standards by which they were judged, remained personal and informal, as they had been in earlier centuries before the appearance of the madrasa. No medieval madrasa had anything approaching a set curriculum, and no system of degrees was ever established. Indeed, medieval Muslims themselves seem to have been remarkably uninterested in where an individual studied. The only thing that mattered was with whom one had studied, a qualification certified not by an institutional degree but by a personal license ( ijaza) issued by a teacher to his pupil. Whether lessons took place in a new madrasa, or in an older mosque, or for that matter in someone's living room, was a matter of supreme indifference. No institutional structure, no curriculum, no regular examinations, nothing approaching a formal hierachy of degrees: the system of transmitting knowledge, such as it was, remained throughout the medieval period fundamentally personal and informal, and consequently, in many ways, flexible and inclusive. ( Berkey, Jonathan P.: Madrasas Medieval and Modern: Politics, Education, and the Problem of Muslim Identity, in Hefner, Robert W.; Qasim Zaman, Muhammad (eds.): Schooling Islam: The Culture and Politics of Modern Muslim Education, Princeton Studies in Muslim Politics, Princeton University Press, 2007, ISBN 978-0-691-12933-4, p. 43)
In Africa...places that came to be regarded as centers of learning with an extensive higher education system teaching both Islamic and foreign sciences were of course few; they included: Cairo (which boasts the famous al-Azhar University that was founded as a madrasah in 969); Fez in Morocco (the modern-day Qarawiyyin University in Fez began its life as a madrasah in 859);... ...As for the nature of its curriculum, it was typical of other major madrasahs such as al-Azhar and al-Qarawiyyin, though many of the texts used at the institution came from Muslim Spain...Al-Qarawiyyin began its life as a small mosque constructed in 859 C.E. by means of an endowment bequeathed by a wealthy woman of much piety, Fatima bint Muhammed al-Fahri. (Lulat, Y. G.-M.: A History Of African Higher Education From Antiquity To The Present: A Critical Synthesis, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2005, ISBN 978-0-313-32061-3, p. 69-70)
Higher education has always been an integral part of Morocco, going back to the ninth century when the Karaouine Mosque was established. The mosque school, known today as Al Qayrawaniyan University, became part of the state university system in 1947. ( Shillington, Kevin: Encyclopedia of African history, Vol. 2, Fitzroy Dearborn, 2005, ISBN 978-1-57958-245-6, p. 1025)
The Adjustments of Original Institutions of the Higher Learning: the Madrasah. Significantly, the institutional adjustments of the madrasahs affected both the structure and the content of these institutions. In terms of structure, the adjustments were twofold: the reorganization of the available original madaris, and the creation of new institutions. This resulted in two different types of Islamic teaching institutions in al-Maghrib. The first type was derived from the fusion of old madaris with new universities. For example, Morocco transformed Al-Qarawiyin (859 A.D.) into a university under the supervision of the ministry of education in 1963. (Belhachmi, Zakia: "Gender, Education, and Feminist Knowledge in al-Maghrib (North Africa) – 1950–70", Journal of Middle Eastern and North African Intellectual and Cultural Studies, Vol. 2–3, 2003, pp. 55–82 (65))
al-qarawiyin is the oldest university in Morocco. It was founded as a mosque in Fès in the middle of the ninth century. It has been a destination for students and scholars of Islamic sciences and Arabic studies throughout the history of Morocco. There were also other religious schools like the madras of ibn yusuf and other schools in the sus. This system of basic education called al-ta'lim al-aSil was funded by the sultans of Morocco and many famous traditional families. After independence, al-qarawiyin maintained its reputation, but it seemed important to transform it into a university that would prepare graduates for a modern country while maintaining an emphasis on Islamic studies. Hence, al-qarawiyin university was founded in February 1963 and, while the dean's residence was kept in Fès, the new university initially had four colleges located in major regions of the country known for their religious influences and madrasas. These colleges were kuliyat al-shari's in Fès, kuliyat uSul al-din in Tétouan, kuliyat al-lugha al-'arabiya in Marrakech (all founded in 1963), and kuliyat al-shari'a in Ait Melloul near Agadir, which was founded in 1979. muHammad al-khamis was the first modern university in Morocco and was founded after independence in 1957 initially under the name of Rabat University. It took over many higher education institutions created during the protectorate. (Park, Thomas K.; Boum, Aomar: Historical Dictionary of Morocco, 2nd ed., Scarecrow Press, 2006, ISBN 978-0-8108-5341-6, p. 348)
The first madrasas appeared during the late tenth century in the eastern Islamic world. By the early eleventh century, there were several in Nishapur. The Seljuk vizier Nizam al-Mulk (1064–1092) greatly promoted their spread. He founded the renowned Nizamiyya Madrasa in Baghdad in 1065 for the Shafi'is and proceeded to establish similar colleges in other cities of the Seljuk Empire. His primary objective was to use this institution to strengthen Sunnism against Shi'ism and to gain influence over the religious class. Madrasas rapidly spread from east to west. ( Meri, Josef W. (ed.): Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, A–K, Routledge, 2006, ISBN 978-0-415-96691-7, p. 457 (entry "madrasa"))
Before the emergence of the madrasa as a distinctive educational forum in the eleventh century, the transmission of Muslim knowledge was not tied to any institutional structure. Most education probably took place in mosques, as students gathered with respected scholars in informal teaching circles to recite texts and discuss the issues which they addressed...Beginning in the eleventh century, Muslims began to establish institutions specifically created and endowed to support the transmission of religious knowledge, and over the ensuing centuries the madrasa and its cognate institutions became one of the most common features of premodern cities...A madrasa established in Baghdad in the late eleventh century by Nizam al-Mulk, the Persian vizier to the Saljuq sultans, is often today mentioned as the archetypal madrasa, although in fact the institution probably developed earlier in Khurasan in eastern Iran. ( Berkey, Jonathan P.: Madrasas Medieval and Modern: Politics, Education, and the Problem of Muslim Identity, in Hefner, Robert W.; Qasim Zaman, Muhammad (eds.): Schooling Islam: The Culture and Politics of Modern Muslim Education, Princeton Studies in Muslim Politics, Princeton University Press, 2007, ISBN 978-0-691-12933-4, p. 42f.)
The university is a European institution; indeed, it is the European institution par excellence. There are various reasons for this assertion. As a community of teachers and taught, accorded certain rights, such as administrative autonomy and the determination and realization of curricula (courses of study) and of the objectives of research as well as the award of publicly recognized degrees, it is a creation of medieval Europe, which was the Europe of papal Christianity...
No other European institution has spread over the entire world in the way in which the traditional form of the European university has done. The degrees awarded by European universities – the bachelor's degree, the licentiate, the master's degree, and the doctorate – have been adopted in the most diverse societies throughout the world. The four medieval faculties of artes – variously called philosophy, letters, arts, arts and sciences, and humanities –, law, medicine, and theology have survived and have been supplemented by numerous disciplines, particularly the social sciences and technological studies, but they remain none the less at the heart of universities throughout the world.
Even the name of the universitas, which in the Middle Ages was applied to corporate bodies of the most diverse sorts and was accordingly applied to the corporate organization of teachers and students, has in the course of centuries been given a more particular focus: the university, as a universitas litterarum, has since the eighteenth century been the intellectual institution which cultivates and transmits the entire corpus of methodically studied intellectual disciplines. ( Rüegg, Walter: "Foreword. The University as a European Institution", in: Ridder-Symoens, Hilde de (ed.): A History of the University in Europe. Vol. I: Universities in the Middle Ages, Cambridge University Press, 1992, ISBN 0-521-36105-2, pp. XIX–XX)
No one today would dispute the fact that universities, in the sense in which the term is now generally understood, were a creation of the Middle Ages, appearing for the first time between the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. It is no doubt true that other civilizations, prior to, or wholly alien to, the medieval West, such as the Roman Empire, Byzantium, Islam, or China, were familiar with forms of higher education which a number of historians, for the sake of convenience, have sometimes described as universities.Yet a closer look makes it plain that the institutional reality was altogether different and, no matter what has been said on the subject, there is no real link such as would justify us in associating them with medieval universities in the West. Until there is definite proof to the contrary, these latter must be regarded as the sole source of the model which gradually spread through the whole of Europe and then to the whole world. We are therefore concerned with what is indisputably an original institution, which can only be defined in terms of a historical analysis of its emergence and its mode of operation in concrete circumstances. ( Verger, Jacques: "Patterns", in: Ridder-Symoens, Hilde de (ed.): A History of the University in Europe. Vol. I: Universities in the Middle Ages, Cambridge University Press, 2003, ISBN 978-0-521-54113-8, pp. 35–76 (35))
In many respects, if there is any institution that Europe can most justifiably claim as one of its inventions, it is the university. As proof thereof and without wishing here to recount the whole history of the birth of universities, it will suffice to describe briefly how the invention of universities took the form of a polycentric process of specifically European origin. (Sanz, Nuria; Bergan, Sjur (eds.): The Heritage of European Universities, Council of Europe, 2002, ISBN 978-92-871-4960-2, p. 119)
The university came into being in the 12th century. On a general level, it was certainly a manifestation of the great transformations that characterised European society during the centuries following the year 1000. The debate begins when we seek to fix its origin more precisely: was the university an evolution of the 11th- and 12th-c. cathedral schools or, on the contrary, of lay municipal schools (of grammar, notariate, law)? Did it have antecedents in the higher legal schools of late Roman Antiquity? Does it show analogies with the teaching institutions of the Islamic world? In reality, the university was an original creation of the central centuries of the Middle Ages, both from the point of view of its organisation and from the cultural point of view, notwithstanding what it owed, in the latter aspect, to the cathedral schools (especially for philosophy and theology). ( Vauchez, André; Dobson, Richard Barrie; Lapidge, Michael (eds.): Encyclopedia of the Middle Ages, Vol. 1, Routledge, 2000, ISBN 978-1-57958-282-1, p. 1484 (entry "university"))
The origin and persistence of the university, Professor J. K. Hyde reminds us, is a remarkable fact. Within a decade of the year 1200, universities were created, apparently independently, at Bologna, Paris, and Oxford. There have been important changes in the subsequent eight centuries of the European university's history, most notably the incorporation of the research ideal and the adoption of a bureaucratic style. Yet no one can mistake the institutional continuity. No institution in the West, save the Roman Catholic church, has persisted longer. From small medieval beginnings this institution has become diffused throughout the world, assuming everywhere principal responsibility for advanced teaching and, more often than not, research. ( Bender, Thomas: "Introduction", in: Bender, Thomas (ed.): The University and the City. From Medieval Origins to the Present, Oxford University Press, New York, 1988, ISBN 0-19-505273-0, pp. 3-10 (4))
But I want to begin by phrasing a very extraordinary state of affairs: the university as we know it today spread to all the continents in the modern world in which the great majority of research and teaching in the higher faculties still continues. They all go back to three prototypes: Oxford, Paris, and Bologna. And they go back to a particular moment in the West, within a decade or so on either side of the year 1200. The statement that all universities are descended either directly or by migration or are descended by imitation from those three prototypes depends, of course, on one's definition of a university. And I must define a university very strictly here. A university is something more than a center of higher education and study. One must reserve the term university for—and I'm quoting Rashdall here—"a scholastic guild, whether of masters or students engaged in higher education and study," which was later defined, after the emergence of the universities, as studium generale. (Hyde, J. K.: "Universities and Cities in Medieval Italy", in: Bender, Thomas (ed.): The University and the City. From Medieval Origins to the Present, Oxford University Press, New York, 1988, ISBN 0-19-505273-0, pp. 13-21 (13f.))
In studying an institution which is foreign and remote in point of time, as is the case of the medieval madrasa, one runs the double risk of attributing to it characteristics borrowed from one's own institutions and one's own times. Thus gratuitous transfers may be made from one culture to the other, and the time factor may be ignored or dismissed as being without significance. One cannot therefore be too careful in attempting a comparative study of these two institutions: the madrasa and the university. But in spite of the pitfalls inherent in such a study, albeit sketchy, the results which may be obtained are well worth the risks involved. In any case, one cannot avoid making comparisons when certain unwarranted statements have already been made and seem to be currently accepted without question. The most unwarranted of these statements is the one which makes of the "madrasa" a "university".
In the following remarks, it will be seen that the madrasa and the university were the result of two different sets of social, political and religious factors. When speaking of these two institutions, unless otherwise stated, my remarks will refer, for the most part, to the eleventh century in Baghdad and the thirteenth century in Paris. These are the centuries given for the development of these institutions in the Muslim East and the Christian West, respectively.
Universitas, the term which eventually came to be used synonymously with studium generale, and to designate what we now know as the university, originally meant nothing more than a community, guild or corporation. It was a corporation of masters, or students, or both...The madrasa, unlike the university, was a building, not a community. It was one among many such institutions in the same city, each independent of the other, each with its own endowment.
In the West the scholars of the University were ecclesiastics, people of the Church...Now, whereas the popes were the ultimate guardians of orthodoxy in the Christian hierarchy, in Islam which lacked a religious hierarchy, it was the ulama, or religious scholars, themselves, who ultimately had to see to the preservation and propagation of orthodox truth.
Centralization in medieval European cities, and decentralization in those of medieval Islam–such was the situation in the institutions of learning on both sides of the Mediterranean. Paris was a city with one university; Baghdad, on the other hand, had a great number of institutions of learning. In Paris organized faculties were brought into a single system resting on a hierarchical basis; in Baghdad, one leading scholar (and others of subordinate positions) taught in one of the many institutions, each institution independent of the other, with its own charter, and its own endowment. Here we have another essential difference between the two institutional systems: hierarchical and organized in medieval Europe, individualistic and personalized in medieval Islam.
Perhaps the most fundamental difference between the two systems is embodied in their systems of certification; namely, in medieval Europe, the licentia docendi, or license to teach; in medieval Islam, the ijaza, or authorization. In Europe, the license to teach was a license to teach a certain field of knowledge. It was conferred by the licensed masters acting as a corporation, with the consent of a Church authority, in Paris, by the Chancellor of the Cathedral Chapter...Certification in the Muslim East remained a personal matter between the master and the student. The master conferred it on an individual for a particular work, or works.
Before the advent of the licentia docendi, the conditions for teaching were much the same in medieval Europe and in the Muslim world...But Europe developed the license to teach, and with its development came the parting of the ways between East and West in institutionalized higher education...The license to teach in medieval Europe brought with it fixed curricula, fixed periods of study and examinations. Whereas the ijaza in Islam kept things on a more fluid, a more individualistic and personal basis.
There is another fundamental reason why the university, as it developed in Europe, did not develop in the Muslim East. This reason is to be found in the very nature of the corporation. Corporations, as a form of social organization, had already developed in Europe. Their legal basis was to be found in Roman Law which recognized juristic persons. Islamic law, on the other hand, does not recognize juristic persons.
Thus the university, as a form of social organization, was peculiar to medieval Europe. Later, it was exported to all parts of the world, including the Muslim East; and it has remained with us down to the present day. But back in the Middle Ages, outside of Europe, there was nothing anything quite like it anywhere. (Makdisi, George: "Madrasa and University in the Middle Ages", Studia Islamica, No. 32 (1970), pp. 255–264
Given how the university came to be defined, the decisive step in its development came when masters and scholars of various subjects and with diverse professional objectives first joined together to form a single guild or community. It was in Paris that the earliest such corporation was formed. Although in other respects the city's schools developed more slowly than those of Bologna, Paris can, in this definitive sense, be regarded as the location of the first university. ( Ferruolo, Stephen C.: The Origins of the University: The Schools of Paris and Their Critics, 1100–1215, Stanford University Press, 1985, ISBN 978-0-8047-1266-8, p. 5)
The modern university evolved from the medieval schools known as studia generalia; they were generally recognized places of study open to students from all parts of Europe. The earliest studia arose out of efforts to educate clerks and monks beyond the level of the cathedral and monastic schools...The earliest Western institution that can be called a university was a famous medical school that arose at Salerno, Italy, in the 9th century and drew students from all over Europe. It remained merely a medical school, however. The first true university was founded at Bologna late in the 11th century. It became a widely respected school of canon and civil law. The first university to arise in northern Europe was the University of Paris, founded between 1150 and 1170. ( Encyclopædia Britannica: "University", 2012, retrieved 26 July 2012)
Although the name university is sometimes given to the celebrated schools of Athens and Alexandria, it is generally held that the universities first arose in the Middle Ages. ( Pace, Edward: "Universities", The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 15, Robert Appleton Company, New York, 1912, retrieved 27 July 2012)
Die ältesten Universitäten waren Bologna und Paris. Sie müssen sich vor 1200 konstituiert haben, wenn auch die ältesten erhaltenen Statuten erst später erlassen wurden (Paris 1215, Bologna 1252) und beide Universitäten erst um die Mitte des 13. Jh. ihre volle institutionelle Ausprägung erfuhren. Auf ein fast ebenso hohes Alter blicken Oxford, Cambridge und Montpellier (Medizin) zurück; sie entstanden vor 1220. Im Laufe des 13. Jh. traten etwa zehn weitere Universitäten hervor, alle im südlichen Europa: Einige kleinere italienische Zentren ( Reggio, Vicenza, Vercelli, Arezzo usw.), gleichsam »Sekundärgründungen« des weitausstrahlenden Bologna, blieben kurzlebig, dagegen konnten Padua (1222) und Neapel (1224) nach schwierigen Anfängen einen Aufwärtstrend verzeichnen; in Südfrankreich entwickelten sich die in Toulouse nach dem Albigenserkreuzzug von 1229 gegründeten Schulen ab 1234 zu einer echten Universität, der etwas später die Rechtsuniversität von Montpellier (1289) und die Universität Avignon (1303) zur Seite traten. Die Universitäten der Iberischen Halbinsel waren sämtlich königliche Stiftungen, die später vom Papsttum bestätigt wurden; neben einigen Fehlgründungen sind die Universitäten von Salamanca (1218), Lissabon (1288; bereits im 14. Jh. zeitweise nach Coimbra verlegt) und Lérida (1300) als gleichsam "nationale" Hochschulen der drei führenden Reiche Kastilien, Portugal und Aragón zu nennen. Diese Universitäten, bei deren Gründung das Vorhandensein einer entsprechenden Anzahl von Magistern und Studenten sowie die Intervention der kirchlichen (Toulouse) oder monarchischen (Neapel, Salamanca, Lissabon) Institutionen die entscheidendende Voraussetzung war, erlangten längst nicht die Bedeutung der Universitäten der ersten Generation. ( Lexikon des Mittelalters: "Universität. Die Anfänge", Vol. 8, Cols 1249–1250, Metzler, Stuttgart, [1977]–1999)
The first universities appeared around 1200. They traced their own origins to ancient roots. Paris, for instance, in the 13th cent. portrayed itself as founded by Charlemagne and hence as the final station of a translatio studii founded in Athens and transmitted via Rome...In reality, the mediaeval universities as institutions enjoyed no form of continuity with the public academies of Late Antiquity...The early universities as institutions were not clearly legally defined, and had no consistent, comprehensive bureaucratic structure. They emerged from collective confraternities at a place of study. Teachers and students would join together in corporate groups (universitas magistrorum et scholarium, as at Paris before 1200, and at Oxford and Montpellier before 1220) or, indeed, students alone (universitas scholarium, as at Bologna before 1200). Sometimes universities resulted from secessions from these first foundations (as at Cambridge from the University of Oxford before 1220, at Padua from the University of Bologna in 1222). Retrospectively at least, however, the foundation and its legal privileges (protection, autonomy, financial basis, universal licence to teach – licentia ubique docendi) had to be confirmed by a universal power, either by the pope or, more rarely, the emperor. Only then did an institution attain the true status of a studium generale. ( Brill's New Pauly: "University", Brill, 2012)
Archetypes of Universities: Paris, Bologna. The structural evolution of universities of later foundation depended on the model originally adopted following either the magisterial archetype of Paris or the student-university type of Bologna. ( Dictionary of the Middle Ages: "Universities", Vol. 12, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1989, pp. 282–300 (283))
Should not be Mexico in North America? -- 83.55.105.219 ( talk) 00:29, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I did. Latin America and the Caribbean is a cultural region rather than a geographical one. So maybe Asia should be splitted too into cultural regions. And the same for Africa.-- 83.55.105.242 ( talk) 17:49, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Why isn't Paris (Sorbonne)in the Founded before 1500 list? Several universities in the list say they are based upon it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.158.211.236 ( talk • contribs)
"Another key institution in the Muslim world was the Al-Karouine University at Fes in Morocco. Established in 859, this lays claim today to be the oldest surviving university in the world."
Source: Feingold, edited by Mordechai (2013). "The origins of higher learning: time for a new historiography?". History of Universities: Volume XXVII/1. Oxford:
Oxford University Press. p. 12.
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- A1candidate ( talk) 02:27, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Since there's no consensus to include Al-Karaouine in the list, I propose the following changes as a compromise:
Other institutions of higher learning, like those of ancient Greece, ancient Persia, ancient Rome, Byzantium, ancient China, ancient India and the Muslim world, are not included in this list due to their cultural, historical, structural and juristic dissimilarities from the medieval European university from which the modern university evolved.
Other ancient institutions of higher learning, most notably the University of al-Qarawiyyin, are considered by some scholars to be the oldest existing universities, (Reference above) but they are not included in this list due to their cultural, historical, structural and juristic dissimilarities from the medieval European university from which the modern university evolved.
As discussed previously, this is a very controversial issue in the academic community and the status of the University of al-Qarawiyyin, in particular, has been debated repeatedly over the course of several years. If we do not include it in the list, I think it is only fair to explicitly explain why in the lede section, just like how we do it for the universities of Paris, Salerno, and Montpellier.
I hope this compromise is acceptable and I strongly believe it will prevent a lot of unnecessary discussions and edit-wars in the future. This is obviously not a final proposal, but if we do accept a similar version of it that explicitly names the University of al-Qarawiyyin in the last paragraph without including it in the actual list, it will save a lot of our time and energy. - A1candidate ( talk) 18:54, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
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The Oldest University in Africa is the University established at the Cape of good hope University of Cape Town - 1829 Stellenbosch University - 1866 Witwaterstrand University - 1896 Rhodes University - 1904 University of Pretoria 1908 BuntuMajaja ( talk) 15:08, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
The information on the first two universities is already included, and no reason is given to add the remainder. If you are still unhappy please specify the precise edit you want made. Jonathan A Jones ( talk) 15:27, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Should the Universities ordered by the date of their foundation or the date when they received royal charter? I guees it should not be ordered by the date the respective universities consider to be their anniversary since they could use different standards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Migueldvb ( talk • contribs) 16:42, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
The combined use of the Holy Roman Empire and the Italian city-states as contemporaneous locations is nonsense. Before 1648, all Italian city-states were part of the Empire. So either the Empire should be used as reference for all territories under the imperial crown, or the separate cities, duchies, counties etc. with imperial vassal-status should be used.
This wikipage cites said university as the oldest existing and continuously operated uni in the world and yet it doesn't appear? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.21.218.1 ( talk) 22:07, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
It is mentioned in the entry for Oxford in the table, with a reference which strongly infers that it is older than Oxford! The page for the University of Paris states: "It was founded in the mid-12th century in Paris, France, officially recognized between 1160 and 1250." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eiamjw ( talk • contribs) 14:12, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Hi, this university (Al-Mustansariyah in Baghdad, Iraq) was founded in the 13th century (1277). Shouldn't it be placed near the top of this list or is there something I'm missing? -Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.46.21 ( talk) 06:12, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Azhar_University 124.29.207.238 ( talk) 06:08, 3 February 2015 (UTC)ZohairRiz
Charles University of Prague was founded by the King of Bohemia on his own right and by the Pope. But at the point, column in the table is for "contemporary location", not for the founder. In any way, contested universities were in Bohemia or in Italy (Italian city states).-- Yopie ( talk) 22:18, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
I recently modified the call for expert attention to include experts on the Middle Ages. Since at least 2007 I have been involved in editing Wikipedia articles related to the University. As a graduate student I was trained by William Courtenay and David Lindberg in the familiar tradition that defined the university in terms of its organizational structure, but I am concerned that the definition's focus is Euroocentric. Some time ago I noted at Talk:University#Evolving_definition_of_the_University that the OEDs definition of a university had undergone change, dropping the traditional emphasis on the university as a self governing corporate body. In the ensuing discussion it was pointed out that a change to a dictionary definition wasn't sufficient to change Wikipedia's usage, and the discussion dropped.
I subsequently came across an article in the Oxford series, History of Universities, that raises the same issue in a more scholarly context:
Lowe, Roy; Yasuhara, Yoshihito (2013), "The origins of higher learning: time for a new historiography?", History of Universities, 27 (1), Oxford: Oxford University Press: 1–19.
Lowe and Yasuhara raise some important issues that should be considered here. They propose a historiographical shift that moves from the traditional "accounts which have focused on the institution of the university or on what it was that characterized a university as a functioning organization" to a historical approach that is broadened both geographically and conceptually to include both the knowledge that was developed and disseminated at institutions of higher learning and the many social, cultural, technological, and economic elements that allowed this activity to take place. As I read their essay, it seems to be very much a work in progress at the time it was written (2013) and its influence so far is limited (Google Scholar does not indicate any citations of it). However its appearance is another sign (along with the changing OED definition) that the traditional understanding of the nature of the university, which dates back to Heinrich Denifle in 1885 and Hastings Rashdall in 1893, is facing serious scholarly challenge. Questioning the established definition can no longer be ignored as fringe scholarship. -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 20:40, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Why was my edit undone about Sindh University to sub-category of 'Pakistani universities'; without citing the reason for that, either here or on my talk-page? (SarfarazLarkanian 14:44, 27 February 2016 (UTC))
References
The University of al-Qarawiyyin or Al Quaraouiyine (Arabic: جامعة القرويين) is a university located in Fes, Morocco. It is the oldest existing, continually operating university in the world according to UNESCO [1] and Guinness World Records [2]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fjouti ( talk • contribs) 20:46, March 21, 2016
References
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yoyal should read royal Jpalao1968 ( talk) 16:21, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
The stub article European University Foundations should be merged either here or Medieval university.-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 22:03, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
The University of Strathclyde only became a university in 1964. It is true that its oldest precusor, Anderson's Institution, can be traced back to 1796, but it was not a university at that time. It claimed the title of University from 1828, but was forced to change its name in 1887 as it had no legal authority to use the name. Jonathan A Jones ( talk) 12:30, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
To repeat, even if one accepts the (not widely accepted) claim that "Anderson's University" was a university even the institution itself accepted that it wasn't a university in 1887 when it changed its name. Thus the institutional continuity of the University of Strathclyde as a university can only be traced back to 1964. Jonathan A Jones ( talk) 20:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
See for example here: [1]. Some quotes: "Strathclyde University originated as Anderson's Institution in 1796. In 1828, the institution took on the title of Anderson's University, partially fulfilling Anderson's vision of two universities in the city of Glasgow. The name was changed in 1887, to reflect the fact that there was no legal authority for the use of the title of 'university'. As a result the Glasgow and West of Scotland Technical College was formed, becoming the Royal Technical College in 1912, and the Royal College of Science and Technology in 1956.In 1964, the institution merged with the Scottish College of Commerce and received a royal charter, granting it university status under the name of the University of Strathclyde." and "Until 1964 the institution was primarily a technological institute concentrating on science and engineering teaching and research. Undergraduate students could qualify for degrees of the University of Glasgow or the equivalent Associate of the Royal College of Science and Technology (ARCST).". Clearly not a university until 1964. Jonathan A Jones ( talk) 10:44, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Date of foundation or establishment is the common criteria and should be used for defining. Below are some of the issues which arise if only the date of royal charter is taken into account.
KCL: "In 2003, the College was granted degree-awarding powers in its own right, as opposed to through the University of London, by the Privy Council. This power remained unexercised until 2007, when the College announced that all students starting courses from September 2007 onwards would be awarded degrees conferred by King's itself, rather than by the University of London. The new certificates however still make reference to the fact that King's is a constituent college of the University of London." Also, Lampeter was St David's "College" in 1822 ("The university was founded in 1822 as St David's College (Coleg Dewi Sant), becoming St David's University College (Coleg Prifysgol Dewi Sant) in 1971, when it became part of the federal University of Wales")("In 2010 it merged with Trinity University College (under its 1822 charter) to create the University of Wales, Trinity Saint David") and so it technically became an university in 2010!
Durham was granted Royal charter in 1837 and NOT 1832.
Bangor received RC in 1885 and NOT 1884
London School of Economics: "The London School of Economics was founded in 1895 by Beatrice and Sidney Webb, initially funded by a bequest of £20,000[24][25] from the estate of Henry Hunt Hutchinson. Hutchinson, a lawyer[24] and member of the Fabian Society, left the money in trust, to be put "towards advancing its [The Fabian Society's] objects in any way they [the trustees] deem advisable". The five trustees were Sidney Webb, Edward Pease, Constance Hutchinson, William de Mattos and William Clark. The LSE records that the proposal to establish the school was conceived during a breakfast meeting on 4 August 1894, between the Webbs, Graham Wallas and George Bernard Shaw. The proposal was accepted by the trustees in February 1895 and LSE held its first classes in October of that year, in rooms at 9 John Street, Adelphi, in the City of Westminster." It was a "School" and not an University all this time till,
"The school joined the federal University of London in 1900, becoming the university's Faculty of Economics and awarding degrees of the University from 1902.[28] Expanding rapidly over the following years, the school moved initially to the nearby 10 Adelphi Terrace, then to Clare Market and Houghton Street. The foundation stone of the Old Building, on Houghton Street, was laid by King George V in 1920; the building was opened in 1922." therefore it cannot be classified as a separate university. and it never received its Royal Charter.
Royal Holoway "Royal Holloway, University of London (RHUL) is a constituent "college" of the University of London." Again, not an "University"
Aberystwyth University has NOT received Royal charter. "Founded in 1872 as University College Wales, Aberystwyth became a founder member of the University of Wales in 1894 and changed its name to the University College of Wales, Aberystwyth. In the mid-1990s, the university again changed its name to the University of Wales, Aberystwyth. On 1 September 2007, the University of Wales ceased to be a federal university and Aberystwyth became independent again. However, students enrolled from the 2009/2010 academic year onwards, or whose first year of study was in the 2008/2009 academic year, can choose to receive their degree from the University of Wales or Aberystwyth University."
Queen Mary: this is the biggest issue. "In April 1929 the College Council decided it would take the steps towards applying to the Privy Council for a Royal Charter, but on the advice of the Drapers' Company first devised a scheme for development and expansion, which recommended amongst other things to reamalgamate the People's Palace and the College, with guaranteed provision of the Queen's Hall for recreational purposes, offering at least freedom of governance if not in space"
"Queen Mary and Westfield College was established by Act of Parliament and the granting of a Royal charter in 1989, following the merger of Queen Mary College (incorporated by charter in 1934) and Westfield College (incorporated in 1933).[1] The Charter has subsequently been revised three times: in 1995 (as a result of the merger of the College with the Barts and the London School of Medicine and Dentistry); in 2008 (as a result of the Privy Council awarding the College Degree Awarding Powers; and in July 2010 (following a governance review)."
So this received its royal charter in 1934/1989 and NOT 1885.
So clearly all the universities are listed on dates of foundation and NOT on royal charter. So if you need, please create a page separately as mentioned above for universities based on RC. 101.212.67.232 ( talk) 14:56, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
A recent edit changed the title of a section from " Latin America and the Caribbean" to " South America and the Caribbean." No rationale was given, but apparently it was because Mexican universities are listed under North America. The new section division, however, leaves the geographically North American universities in Guatemala and Panama in the new South America and the Caribbean section.
Latin America seems a culturally consistent unit when discussing universities, but in that framework the Mexican universities should probably be moved there. Neither division is obviously right, so before moving any of the entries I'd like to hear comments on the recent edit. -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 21:00, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
Comments would be appreciated at Talk:List of the oldest schools in the world. Chengdu Shishi High School is on the same site as a school that is more than 2,000 years old. It has been removed and added by several editors in the past. There's a discussion about whether it deserves inclusion. -- Lo2u ( T • C) 12:03, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
The University of Pennsylvania should be included in the short list of schools for the United States. While it is not the oldest college, Penn was the first institution of higher learning in the U.S. to use the name 'university'. As well, it was the first college to found a graduate school (School of Medicine, 1756). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.207.123 ( talk) 16:24, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
They are keep changing my edit without any claims. İt has verified sources that it was founded in 1453 and recognized as university. Please check those pages;
they are valid and updated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KazekageTR ( talk • contribs) 15:36, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
The case of Leuven has been discussed extensively; see the talk page archives. See also Note 5 on the main page. Jonathan A Jones ( talk) 22:55, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
Some elements on the permanence of higher studies in Paris.
So, there is a higher education continuity in Paris since the Middle Ages - a six-month gap in 1793 for Medicine, a 18-month gap in 1793-1794 for Sciences and Letters, a 10-year gap for Law, a 16-year gap for Theology . 90.16.170.216 ( talk) 16:18, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
The main chart includes many universities that were closed for a few years by revolution or suchlike. But French universities - many ancient - are excluded because they were closed during the revolution. This is grossly unfair, and it seems that other universities eg Louvain, Belgium have been similarly tarnished. If some expert doesn't clean this up, I will do the best I can.
I suggest that a 20 year hiatus under extreme circumstances should be allowed. 24.108.58.1 ( talk) 04:15, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
There is a need for proper definition of the word "Oldest". Is it the date of formal proclamation or is it the starting date of operation? Whether an entity calls itself an university while it is not recognized by statutory agencies/institutions in that country/worldwide are to be included or excluded?
There are multitude of institutions which may not enjoy federal recognition but carry the word university. This list conveniently neglects various important factors while calling for a single line definition that all universities took form from one of the three universities. It is important to stand corrected that if such a definition is valid, in such a case it is for European universities only. This list needs to be renamed suitably to geographically centered list of Universities - Chronology
Abhijith Jayanthi — Preceding undated comment added 19:55, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
This article deliberately ignores the following issues:
"Some regard the University of Al Karaouine in Fez, Morocco, which was founded in 859, to be the world's oldest continuously operating academic degree-granting higher education institution. Others cite the University of Nalanda in Bihar, India, founded in 427, as the oldest one. The first European university to be established was Bologna in 1088, then in 1167 the University of Oxford, followed by the University of Cambridge in 1209 and the University of Paris in 1231."
Burnes, Bernard (17 January 2013). "The changing face of English universities: reinventing collegiality for the twenty-first century".
Studies in Higher Education: 1–22.
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Adding the above source would go a long way towards maintaining neutrality. Are there any objections?
- A1candidate ( talk) 14:21, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
No. There are may be many ancient higher-learning institutions, but only one of them granted academic degrees in the Islamic world - the Madrasa. - A1candidate ( talk) 17:35, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
A1candidate, since you found it worthwhile to rehash a source which we have already discussed in August 13, you certainly don't mind if I repost my sources, either. Gun Powder Ma ( talk) 18:49, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
@Aravind V R - I agree that the article should be renamed, and I see no reason why there is such a strong desire to exclude all universities that happened to be briefly suspended at some point in history.
@Gun Powder Ma - Your sources do not support your claim.
@Jonathan A Jones - Could you tell me in which year was the University of Paris founded?
- A1candidate ( talk) 20:42, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
"Although its exact date of foundation is unclear, there is evidence of teaching as far back as 1096, making it the oldest university in the English-speaking world, and the second-oldest surviving university in the world, after the University of Bologna. It grew rapidly from 1167 when Henry II banned English students from attending the University of Paris."
{{
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link)Madrasa, in modern usage, the name of an institution of learning where the Islamic sciences are taught, i.e. a college for higher studies, as opposed to an elementary school of traditional type ( kuttab); in mediaeval usage, essentially a college of law in which the other Islamic sciences, including literary and philosophical ones, were ancillary subjects only. (Pedersen, J.; Rahman, Munibur; Hillenbrand, R.: "Madrasa", in Encyclopaedia of Islam, 2nd edition, Brill, 2010)
Madrasa (Medresse), im klassischen Islam gildenartige Institution der höheren Bildung, eine Weiterentwicklung der masǧid (" Moschee") und der ihr angeschlossenen Herberge (ḫān). Der Unterricht fand in der Moschee statt, während die Herberge den Studenten als Unterkunft diente...Nur eine Bildungsstätte wie die Madrasa konnte in der islamischen Welt den Doktorgrad verleihen, denn die wohltätige Stiftung ( waqf) war im Islam, der im Unterschied zur christlichen Welt das Rechtskonzept der " juristischen Person" nicht kannte, die einzige Institution, die, rechtlich gesehen, von "überpersönlicher" Dauer war. Dies ist der eigentliche Grund, warum es in der muslimischen Welt bis zum 19. Jh. nicht zur Gründung von Universitäten kam. ( Lexikon des Mittelalters: "Madrasa", Vol. 6, Cols 65–67, Metzler, Stuttgart, [1977]–1999)
A madrasa is a college of Islamic law. The madrasa was an educational institution in which Islamic law ( fiqh) was taught according to one or more Sunni rites: Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanafi, or Hanbali. It was supported by an endowment or charitable trust ( waqf) that provided for at least one chair for one professor of law, income for other faculty or staff, scholarships for students, and funds for the maintenance of the building. Madrasas contained lodgings for the professor and some of his students. Subjects other than law were frequently taught in madrasas, and even Sufi seances were held in them, but there could be no madrasa without law as technically the major subject. ( Meri, Josef W. (ed.): Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, A–K, Routledge, 2006, ISBN 978-0-415-96691-7, p. 457 (entry "madrasa"))
madrasah, ( Arabic: "school":) Turkish Medrese, in Muslim countries, an institution of higher education. The madrasah functioned until the 20th century as a theological seminary and law school, with a curriculum centred on the Qurʾān. In addition to Islamic theology and law, Arabic grammar and literature, mathematics, logic, and, in some cases, natural science were studied in madrasahs. ( Encyclopædia Britannica: "madrasah", 2012, retrieved 31 July 2012)
Over the course of the Islamic Middle Period (1000–1500), these madrasas became typical features of the urban landscapes of Near Eastern and central and southwest Asian cities, and their proliferation was one of the seminal features of medieval Islamic religious life. Even so, the institutions themselves seem to have had little or no impact on the character or the processes of the transmission of knowledge. For all that the transmission of knowledge might take place within an institution labeled a madrasa, and be supported by the endowments attached to that institution, the principles that guided the activities of teachers and students, and the standards by which they were judged, remained personal and informal, as they had been in earlier centuries before the appearance of the madrasa. No medieval madrasa had anything approaching a set curriculum, and no system of degrees was ever established. Indeed, medieval Muslims themselves seem to have been remarkably uninterested in where an individual studied. The only thing that mattered was with whom one had studied, a qualification certified not by an institutional degree but by a personal license ( ijaza) issued by a teacher to his pupil. Whether lessons took place in a new madrasa, or in an older mosque, or for that matter in someone's living room, was a matter of supreme indifference. No institutional structure, no curriculum, no regular examinations, nothing approaching a formal hierachy of degrees: the system of transmitting knowledge, such as it was, remained throughout the medieval period fundamentally personal and informal, and consequently, in many ways, flexible and inclusive. ( Berkey, Jonathan P.: Madrasas Medieval and Modern: Politics, Education, and the Problem of Muslim Identity, in Hefner, Robert W.; Qasim Zaman, Muhammad (eds.): Schooling Islam: The Culture and Politics of Modern Muslim Education, Princeton Studies in Muslim Politics, Princeton University Press, 2007, ISBN 978-0-691-12933-4, p. 43)
In Africa...places that came to be regarded as centers of learning with an extensive higher education system teaching both Islamic and foreign sciences were of course few; they included: Cairo (which boasts the famous al-Azhar University that was founded as a madrasah in 969); Fez in Morocco (the modern-day Qarawiyyin University in Fez began its life as a madrasah in 859);... ...As for the nature of its curriculum, it was typical of other major madrasahs such as al-Azhar and al-Qarawiyyin, though many of the texts used at the institution came from Muslim Spain...Al-Qarawiyyin began its life as a small mosque constructed in 859 C.E. by means of an endowment bequeathed by a wealthy woman of much piety, Fatima bint Muhammed al-Fahri. (Lulat, Y. G.-M.: A History Of African Higher Education From Antiquity To The Present: A Critical Synthesis, Greenwood Publishing Group, 2005, ISBN 978-0-313-32061-3, p. 69-70)
Higher education has always been an integral part of Morocco, going back to the ninth century when the Karaouine Mosque was established. The mosque school, known today as Al Qayrawaniyan University, became part of the state university system in 1947. ( Shillington, Kevin: Encyclopedia of African history, Vol. 2, Fitzroy Dearborn, 2005, ISBN 978-1-57958-245-6, p. 1025)
The Adjustments of Original Institutions of the Higher Learning: the Madrasah. Significantly, the institutional adjustments of the madrasahs affected both the structure and the content of these institutions. In terms of structure, the adjustments were twofold: the reorganization of the available original madaris, and the creation of new institutions. This resulted in two different types of Islamic teaching institutions in al-Maghrib. The first type was derived from the fusion of old madaris with new universities. For example, Morocco transformed Al-Qarawiyin (859 A.D.) into a university under the supervision of the ministry of education in 1963. (Belhachmi, Zakia: "Gender, Education, and Feminist Knowledge in al-Maghrib (North Africa) – 1950–70", Journal of Middle Eastern and North African Intellectual and Cultural Studies, Vol. 2–3, 2003, pp. 55–82 (65))
al-qarawiyin is the oldest university in Morocco. It was founded as a mosque in Fès in the middle of the ninth century. It has been a destination for students and scholars of Islamic sciences and Arabic studies throughout the history of Morocco. There were also other religious schools like the madras of ibn yusuf and other schools in the sus. This system of basic education called al-ta'lim al-aSil was funded by the sultans of Morocco and many famous traditional families. After independence, al-qarawiyin maintained its reputation, but it seemed important to transform it into a university that would prepare graduates for a modern country while maintaining an emphasis on Islamic studies. Hence, al-qarawiyin university was founded in February 1963 and, while the dean's residence was kept in Fès, the new university initially had four colleges located in major regions of the country known for their religious influences and madrasas. These colleges were kuliyat al-shari's in Fès, kuliyat uSul al-din in Tétouan, kuliyat al-lugha al-'arabiya in Marrakech (all founded in 1963), and kuliyat al-shari'a in Ait Melloul near Agadir, which was founded in 1979. muHammad al-khamis was the first modern university in Morocco and was founded after independence in 1957 initially under the name of Rabat University. It took over many higher education institutions created during the protectorate. (Park, Thomas K.; Boum, Aomar: Historical Dictionary of Morocco, 2nd ed., Scarecrow Press, 2006, ISBN 978-0-8108-5341-6, p. 348)
The first madrasas appeared during the late tenth century in the eastern Islamic world. By the early eleventh century, there were several in Nishapur. The Seljuk vizier Nizam al-Mulk (1064–1092) greatly promoted their spread. He founded the renowned Nizamiyya Madrasa in Baghdad in 1065 for the Shafi'is and proceeded to establish similar colleges in other cities of the Seljuk Empire. His primary objective was to use this institution to strengthen Sunnism against Shi'ism and to gain influence over the religious class. Madrasas rapidly spread from east to west. ( Meri, Josef W. (ed.): Medieval Islamic Civilization: An Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, A–K, Routledge, 2006, ISBN 978-0-415-96691-7, p. 457 (entry "madrasa"))
Before the emergence of the madrasa as a distinctive educational forum in the eleventh century, the transmission of Muslim knowledge was not tied to any institutional structure. Most education probably took place in mosques, as students gathered with respected scholars in informal teaching circles to recite texts and discuss the issues which they addressed...Beginning in the eleventh century, Muslims began to establish institutions specifically created and endowed to support the transmission of religious knowledge, and over the ensuing centuries the madrasa and its cognate institutions became one of the most common features of premodern cities...A madrasa established in Baghdad in the late eleventh century by Nizam al-Mulk, the Persian vizier to the Saljuq sultans, is often today mentioned as the archetypal madrasa, although in fact the institution probably developed earlier in Khurasan in eastern Iran. ( Berkey, Jonathan P.: Madrasas Medieval and Modern: Politics, Education, and the Problem of Muslim Identity, in Hefner, Robert W.; Qasim Zaman, Muhammad (eds.): Schooling Islam: The Culture and Politics of Modern Muslim Education, Princeton Studies in Muslim Politics, Princeton University Press, 2007, ISBN 978-0-691-12933-4, p. 42f.)
The university is a European institution; indeed, it is the European institution par excellence. There are various reasons for this assertion. As a community of teachers and taught, accorded certain rights, such as administrative autonomy and the determination and realization of curricula (courses of study) and of the objectives of research as well as the award of publicly recognized degrees, it is a creation of medieval Europe, which was the Europe of papal Christianity...
No other European institution has spread over the entire world in the way in which the traditional form of the European university has done. The degrees awarded by European universities – the bachelor's degree, the licentiate, the master's degree, and the doctorate – have been adopted in the most diverse societies throughout the world. The four medieval faculties of artes – variously called philosophy, letters, arts, arts and sciences, and humanities –, law, medicine, and theology have survived and have been supplemented by numerous disciplines, particularly the social sciences and technological studies, but they remain none the less at the heart of universities throughout the world.
Even the name of the universitas, which in the Middle Ages was applied to corporate bodies of the most diverse sorts and was accordingly applied to the corporate organization of teachers and students, has in the course of centuries been given a more particular focus: the university, as a universitas litterarum, has since the eighteenth century been the intellectual institution which cultivates and transmits the entire corpus of methodically studied intellectual disciplines. ( Rüegg, Walter: "Foreword. The University as a European Institution", in: Ridder-Symoens, Hilde de (ed.): A History of the University in Europe. Vol. I: Universities in the Middle Ages, Cambridge University Press, 1992, ISBN 0-521-36105-2, pp. XIX–XX)
No one today would dispute the fact that universities, in the sense in which the term is now generally understood, were a creation of the Middle Ages, appearing for the first time between the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. It is no doubt true that other civilizations, prior to, or wholly alien to, the medieval West, such as the Roman Empire, Byzantium, Islam, or China, were familiar with forms of higher education which a number of historians, for the sake of convenience, have sometimes described as universities.Yet a closer look makes it plain that the institutional reality was altogether different and, no matter what has been said on the subject, there is no real link such as would justify us in associating them with medieval universities in the West. Until there is definite proof to the contrary, these latter must be regarded as the sole source of the model which gradually spread through the whole of Europe and then to the whole world. We are therefore concerned with what is indisputably an original institution, which can only be defined in terms of a historical analysis of its emergence and its mode of operation in concrete circumstances. ( Verger, Jacques: "Patterns", in: Ridder-Symoens, Hilde de (ed.): A History of the University in Europe. Vol. I: Universities in the Middle Ages, Cambridge University Press, 2003, ISBN 978-0-521-54113-8, pp. 35–76 (35))
In many respects, if there is any institution that Europe can most justifiably claim as one of its inventions, it is the university. As proof thereof and without wishing here to recount the whole history of the birth of universities, it will suffice to describe briefly how the invention of universities took the form of a polycentric process of specifically European origin. (Sanz, Nuria; Bergan, Sjur (eds.): The Heritage of European Universities, Council of Europe, 2002, ISBN 978-92-871-4960-2, p. 119)
The university came into being in the 12th century. On a general level, it was certainly a manifestation of the great transformations that characterised European society during the centuries following the year 1000. The debate begins when we seek to fix its origin more precisely: was the university an evolution of the 11th- and 12th-c. cathedral schools or, on the contrary, of lay municipal schools (of grammar, notariate, law)? Did it have antecedents in the higher legal schools of late Roman Antiquity? Does it show analogies with the teaching institutions of the Islamic world? In reality, the university was an original creation of the central centuries of the Middle Ages, both from the point of view of its organisation and from the cultural point of view, notwithstanding what it owed, in the latter aspect, to the cathedral schools (especially for philosophy and theology). ( Vauchez, André; Dobson, Richard Barrie; Lapidge, Michael (eds.): Encyclopedia of the Middle Ages, Vol. 1, Routledge, 2000, ISBN 978-1-57958-282-1, p. 1484 (entry "university"))
The origin and persistence of the university, Professor J. K. Hyde reminds us, is a remarkable fact. Within a decade of the year 1200, universities were created, apparently independently, at Bologna, Paris, and Oxford. There have been important changes in the subsequent eight centuries of the European university's history, most notably the incorporation of the research ideal and the adoption of a bureaucratic style. Yet no one can mistake the institutional continuity. No institution in the West, save the Roman Catholic church, has persisted longer. From small medieval beginnings this institution has become diffused throughout the world, assuming everywhere principal responsibility for advanced teaching and, more often than not, research. ( Bender, Thomas: "Introduction", in: Bender, Thomas (ed.): The University and the City. From Medieval Origins to the Present, Oxford University Press, New York, 1988, ISBN 0-19-505273-0, pp. 3-10 (4))
But I want to begin by phrasing a very extraordinary state of affairs: the university as we know it today spread to all the continents in the modern world in which the great majority of research and teaching in the higher faculties still continues. They all go back to three prototypes: Oxford, Paris, and Bologna. And they go back to a particular moment in the West, within a decade or so on either side of the year 1200. The statement that all universities are descended either directly or by migration or are descended by imitation from those three prototypes depends, of course, on one's definition of a university. And I must define a university very strictly here. A university is something more than a center of higher education and study. One must reserve the term university for—and I'm quoting Rashdall here—"a scholastic guild, whether of masters or students engaged in higher education and study," which was later defined, after the emergence of the universities, as studium generale. (Hyde, J. K.: "Universities and Cities in Medieval Italy", in: Bender, Thomas (ed.): The University and the City. From Medieval Origins to the Present, Oxford University Press, New York, 1988, ISBN 0-19-505273-0, pp. 13-21 (13f.))
In studying an institution which is foreign and remote in point of time, as is the case of the medieval madrasa, one runs the double risk of attributing to it characteristics borrowed from one's own institutions and one's own times. Thus gratuitous transfers may be made from one culture to the other, and the time factor may be ignored or dismissed as being without significance. One cannot therefore be too careful in attempting a comparative study of these two institutions: the madrasa and the university. But in spite of the pitfalls inherent in such a study, albeit sketchy, the results which may be obtained are well worth the risks involved. In any case, one cannot avoid making comparisons when certain unwarranted statements have already been made and seem to be currently accepted without question. The most unwarranted of these statements is the one which makes of the "madrasa" a "university".
In the following remarks, it will be seen that the madrasa and the university were the result of two different sets of social, political and religious factors. When speaking of these two institutions, unless otherwise stated, my remarks will refer, for the most part, to the eleventh century in Baghdad and the thirteenth century in Paris. These are the centuries given for the development of these institutions in the Muslim East and the Christian West, respectively.
Universitas, the term which eventually came to be used synonymously with studium generale, and to designate what we now know as the university, originally meant nothing more than a community, guild or corporation. It was a corporation of masters, or students, or both...The madrasa, unlike the university, was a building, not a community. It was one among many such institutions in the same city, each independent of the other, each with its own endowment.
In the West the scholars of the University were ecclesiastics, people of the Church...Now, whereas the popes were the ultimate guardians of orthodoxy in the Christian hierarchy, in Islam which lacked a religious hierarchy, it was the ulama, or religious scholars, themselves, who ultimately had to see to the preservation and propagation of orthodox truth.
Centralization in medieval European cities, and decentralization in those of medieval Islam–such was the situation in the institutions of learning on both sides of the Mediterranean. Paris was a city with one university; Baghdad, on the other hand, had a great number of institutions of learning. In Paris organized faculties were brought into a single system resting on a hierarchical basis; in Baghdad, one leading scholar (and others of subordinate positions) taught in one of the many institutions, each institution independent of the other, with its own charter, and its own endowment. Here we have another essential difference between the two institutional systems: hierarchical and organized in medieval Europe, individualistic and personalized in medieval Islam.
Perhaps the most fundamental difference between the two systems is embodied in their systems of certification; namely, in medieval Europe, the licentia docendi, or license to teach; in medieval Islam, the ijaza, or authorization. In Europe, the license to teach was a license to teach a certain field of knowledge. It was conferred by the licensed masters acting as a corporation, with the consent of a Church authority, in Paris, by the Chancellor of the Cathedral Chapter...Certification in the Muslim East remained a personal matter between the master and the student. The master conferred it on an individual for a particular work, or works.
Before the advent of the licentia docendi, the conditions for teaching were much the same in medieval Europe and in the Muslim world...But Europe developed the license to teach, and with its development came the parting of the ways between East and West in institutionalized higher education...The license to teach in medieval Europe brought with it fixed curricula, fixed periods of study and examinations. Whereas the ijaza in Islam kept things on a more fluid, a more individualistic and personal basis.
There is another fundamental reason why the university, as it developed in Europe, did not develop in the Muslim East. This reason is to be found in the very nature of the corporation. Corporations, as a form of social organization, had already developed in Europe. Their legal basis was to be found in Roman Law which recognized juristic persons. Islamic law, on the other hand, does not recognize juristic persons.
Thus the university, as a form of social organization, was peculiar to medieval Europe. Later, it was exported to all parts of the world, including the Muslim East; and it has remained with us down to the present day. But back in the Middle Ages, outside of Europe, there was nothing anything quite like it anywhere. (Makdisi, George: "Madrasa and University in the Middle Ages", Studia Islamica, No. 32 (1970), pp. 255–264
Given how the university came to be defined, the decisive step in its development came when masters and scholars of various subjects and with diverse professional objectives first joined together to form a single guild or community. It was in Paris that the earliest such corporation was formed. Although in other respects the city's schools developed more slowly than those of Bologna, Paris can, in this definitive sense, be regarded as the location of the first university. ( Ferruolo, Stephen C.: The Origins of the University: The Schools of Paris and Their Critics, 1100–1215, Stanford University Press, 1985, ISBN 978-0-8047-1266-8, p. 5)
The modern university evolved from the medieval schools known as studia generalia; they were generally recognized places of study open to students from all parts of Europe. The earliest studia arose out of efforts to educate clerks and monks beyond the level of the cathedral and monastic schools...The earliest Western institution that can be called a university was a famous medical school that arose at Salerno, Italy, in the 9th century and drew students from all over Europe. It remained merely a medical school, however. The first true university was founded at Bologna late in the 11th century. It became a widely respected school of canon and civil law. The first university to arise in northern Europe was the University of Paris, founded between 1150 and 1170. ( Encyclopædia Britannica: "University", 2012, retrieved 26 July 2012)
Although the name university is sometimes given to the celebrated schools of Athens and Alexandria, it is generally held that the universities first arose in the Middle Ages. ( Pace, Edward: "Universities", The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 15, Robert Appleton Company, New York, 1912, retrieved 27 July 2012)
Die ältesten Universitäten waren Bologna und Paris. Sie müssen sich vor 1200 konstituiert haben, wenn auch die ältesten erhaltenen Statuten erst später erlassen wurden (Paris 1215, Bologna 1252) und beide Universitäten erst um die Mitte des 13. Jh. ihre volle institutionelle Ausprägung erfuhren. Auf ein fast ebenso hohes Alter blicken Oxford, Cambridge und Montpellier (Medizin) zurück; sie entstanden vor 1220. Im Laufe des 13. Jh. traten etwa zehn weitere Universitäten hervor, alle im südlichen Europa: Einige kleinere italienische Zentren ( Reggio, Vicenza, Vercelli, Arezzo usw.), gleichsam »Sekundärgründungen« des weitausstrahlenden Bologna, blieben kurzlebig, dagegen konnten Padua (1222) und Neapel (1224) nach schwierigen Anfängen einen Aufwärtstrend verzeichnen; in Südfrankreich entwickelten sich die in Toulouse nach dem Albigenserkreuzzug von 1229 gegründeten Schulen ab 1234 zu einer echten Universität, der etwas später die Rechtsuniversität von Montpellier (1289) und die Universität Avignon (1303) zur Seite traten. Die Universitäten der Iberischen Halbinsel waren sämtlich königliche Stiftungen, die später vom Papsttum bestätigt wurden; neben einigen Fehlgründungen sind die Universitäten von Salamanca (1218), Lissabon (1288; bereits im 14. Jh. zeitweise nach Coimbra verlegt) und Lérida (1300) als gleichsam "nationale" Hochschulen der drei führenden Reiche Kastilien, Portugal und Aragón zu nennen. Diese Universitäten, bei deren Gründung das Vorhandensein einer entsprechenden Anzahl von Magistern und Studenten sowie die Intervention der kirchlichen (Toulouse) oder monarchischen (Neapel, Salamanca, Lissabon) Institutionen die entscheidendende Voraussetzung war, erlangten längst nicht die Bedeutung der Universitäten der ersten Generation. ( Lexikon des Mittelalters: "Universität. Die Anfänge", Vol. 8, Cols 1249–1250, Metzler, Stuttgart, [1977]–1999)
The first universities appeared around 1200. They traced their own origins to ancient roots. Paris, for instance, in the 13th cent. portrayed itself as founded by Charlemagne and hence as the final station of a translatio studii founded in Athens and transmitted via Rome...In reality, the mediaeval universities as institutions enjoyed no form of continuity with the public academies of Late Antiquity...The early universities as institutions were not clearly legally defined, and had no consistent, comprehensive bureaucratic structure. They emerged from collective confraternities at a place of study. Teachers and students would join together in corporate groups (universitas magistrorum et scholarium, as at Paris before 1200, and at Oxford and Montpellier before 1220) or, indeed, students alone (universitas scholarium, as at Bologna before 1200). Sometimes universities resulted from secessions from these first foundations (as at Cambridge from the University of Oxford before 1220, at Padua from the University of Bologna in 1222). Retrospectively at least, however, the foundation and its legal privileges (protection, autonomy, financial basis, universal licence to teach – licentia ubique docendi) had to be confirmed by a universal power, either by the pope or, more rarely, the emperor. Only then did an institution attain the true status of a studium generale. ( Brill's New Pauly: "University", Brill, 2012)
Archetypes of Universities: Paris, Bologna. The structural evolution of universities of later foundation depended on the model originally adopted following either the magisterial archetype of Paris or the student-university type of Bologna. ( Dictionary of the Middle Ages: "Universities", Vol. 12, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1989, pp. 282–300 (283))
Should not be Mexico in North America? -- 83.55.105.219 ( talk) 00:29, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I did. Latin America and the Caribbean is a cultural region rather than a geographical one. So maybe Asia should be splitted too into cultural regions. And the same for Africa.-- 83.55.105.242 ( talk) 17:49, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Why isn't Paris (Sorbonne)in the Founded before 1500 list? Several universities in the list say they are based upon it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.158.211.236 ( talk • contribs)
"Another key institution in the Muslim world was the Al-Karouine University at Fes in Morocco. Established in 859, this lays claim today to be the oldest surviving university in the world."
Source: Feingold, edited by Mordechai (2013). "The origins of higher learning: time for a new historiography?". History of Universities: Volume XXVII/1. Oxford:
Oxford University Press. p. 12.
ISBN
0199685843. {{
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has generic name (
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- A1candidate ( talk) 02:27, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Since there's no consensus to include Al-Karaouine in the list, I propose the following changes as a compromise:
Other institutions of higher learning, like those of ancient Greece, ancient Persia, ancient Rome, Byzantium, ancient China, ancient India and the Muslim world, are not included in this list due to their cultural, historical, structural and juristic dissimilarities from the medieval European university from which the modern university evolved.
Other ancient institutions of higher learning, most notably the University of al-Qarawiyyin, are considered by some scholars to be the oldest existing universities, (Reference above) but they are not included in this list due to their cultural, historical, structural and juristic dissimilarities from the medieval European university from which the modern university evolved.
As discussed previously, this is a very controversial issue in the academic community and the status of the University of al-Qarawiyyin, in particular, has been debated repeatedly over the course of several years. If we do not include it in the list, I think it is only fair to explicitly explain why in the lede section, just like how we do it for the universities of Paris, Salerno, and Montpellier.
I hope this compromise is acceptable and I strongly believe it will prevent a lot of unnecessary discussions and edit-wars in the future. This is obviously not a final proposal, but if we do accept a similar version of it that explicitly names the University of al-Qarawiyyin in the last paragraph without including it in the actual list, it will save a lot of our time and energy. - A1candidate ( talk) 18:54, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
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The Oldest University in Africa is the University established at the Cape of good hope University of Cape Town - 1829 Stellenbosch University - 1866 Witwaterstrand University - 1896 Rhodes University - 1904 University of Pretoria 1908 BuntuMajaja ( talk) 15:08, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
The information on the first two universities is already included, and no reason is given to add the remainder. If you are still unhappy please specify the precise edit you want made. Jonathan A Jones ( talk) 15:27, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Should the Universities ordered by the date of their foundation or the date when they received royal charter? I guees it should not be ordered by the date the respective universities consider to be their anniversary since they could use different standards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Migueldvb ( talk • contribs) 16:42, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
The combined use of the Holy Roman Empire and the Italian city-states as contemporaneous locations is nonsense. Before 1648, all Italian city-states were part of the Empire. So either the Empire should be used as reference for all territories under the imperial crown, or the separate cities, duchies, counties etc. with imperial vassal-status should be used.
This wikipage cites said university as the oldest existing and continuously operated uni in the world and yet it doesn't appear? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.21.218.1 ( talk) 22:07, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
It is mentioned in the entry for Oxford in the table, with a reference which strongly infers that it is older than Oxford! The page for the University of Paris states: "It was founded in the mid-12th century in Paris, France, officially recognized between 1160 and 1250." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eiamjw ( talk • contribs) 14:12, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Hi, this university (Al-Mustansariyah in Baghdad, Iraq) was founded in the 13th century (1277). Shouldn't it be placed near the top of this list or is there something I'm missing? -Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.46.21 ( talk) 06:12, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Azhar_University 124.29.207.238 ( talk) 06:08, 3 February 2015 (UTC)ZohairRiz
Charles University of Prague was founded by the King of Bohemia on his own right and by the Pope. But at the point, column in the table is for "contemporary location", not for the founder. In any way, contested universities were in Bohemia or in Italy (Italian city states).-- Yopie ( talk) 22:18, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
I recently modified the call for expert attention to include experts on the Middle Ages. Since at least 2007 I have been involved in editing Wikipedia articles related to the University. As a graduate student I was trained by William Courtenay and David Lindberg in the familiar tradition that defined the university in terms of its organizational structure, but I am concerned that the definition's focus is Euroocentric. Some time ago I noted at Talk:University#Evolving_definition_of_the_University that the OEDs definition of a university had undergone change, dropping the traditional emphasis on the university as a self governing corporate body. In the ensuing discussion it was pointed out that a change to a dictionary definition wasn't sufficient to change Wikipedia's usage, and the discussion dropped.
I subsequently came across an article in the Oxford series, History of Universities, that raises the same issue in a more scholarly context:
Lowe, Roy; Yasuhara, Yoshihito (2013), "The origins of higher learning: time for a new historiography?", History of Universities, 27 (1), Oxford: Oxford University Press: 1–19.
Lowe and Yasuhara raise some important issues that should be considered here. They propose a historiographical shift that moves from the traditional "accounts which have focused on the institution of the university or on what it was that characterized a university as a functioning organization" to a historical approach that is broadened both geographically and conceptually to include both the knowledge that was developed and disseminated at institutions of higher learning and the many social, cultural, technological, and economic elements that allowed this activity to take place. As I read their essay, it seems to be very much a work in progress at the time it was written (2013) and its influence so far is limited (Google Scholar does not indicate any citations of it). However its appearance is another sign (along with the changing OED definition) that the traditional understanding of the nature of the university, which dates back to Heinrich Denifle in 1885 and Hastings Rashdall in 1893, is facing serious scholarly challenge. Questioning the established definition can no longer be ignored as fringe scholarship. -- SteveMcCluskey ( talk) 20:40, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Why was my edit undone about Sindh University to sub-category of 'Pakistani universities'; without citing the reason for that, either here or on my talk-page? (SarfarazLarkanian 14:44, 27 February 2016 (UTC))
References
The University of al-Qarawiyyin or Al Quaraouiyine (Arabic: جامعة القرويين) is a university located in Fes, Morocco. It is the oldest existing, continually operating university in the world according to UNESCO [1] and Guinness World Records [2]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fjouti ( talk • contribs) 20:46, March 21, 2016
References
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yoyal should read royal Jpalao1968 ( talk) 16:21, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
The stub article European University Foundations should be merged either here or Medieval university.-- Bellerophon5685 ( talk) 22:03, 31 March 2016 (UTC)