![]() | To list (
Help:List) a student, whose first and last names are XXX and YYY, use *{{LMSTA|XXX|YYY|no}}, which produces:
If the student is a teacher, use *{{LMSTA|XXX|YYY|yes}}, which produces: |
![]() | At the top of many article sections (
Help:Section) for teachers a template is used, such as, if the teacher was named XXX YYY and studied with teacher AAA BBB, {{LMSTT|YYY (birth-death)|AAA|BBB}}, which produces: this teacher's teachers YYY (birth-death) studied with teachers including
AAA BBB. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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See: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music/Archive 50#"Pupils and pupils of pupils of X". Hyacinth ( talk) 22:02, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
The students listed under Heinrich Schenker are actually students of Heinrich Schütz. I'll just go ahead and correct it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Batonpower ( talk • contribs) 16:13, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
List of music students by teacher is a member of Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls.
Edit that article, and then Show preview, and note the message at the top:
Warning: This page contains too many expensive parser function calls.
It should have less than 500 calls, there are now 3,877 calls.
As the category documentation explains:
Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls is populated automatically by the MediaWiki software. It lists articles that issue
too many expensive parser function calls. As of 14 October 2010, expensive function calls are #ifexist
, {{PAGESINCATEGORY}}
and {{PAGESIZE}}
. These pages should be edited to reduce the number of expensive calls.
Per WP:EXPENSIVE: There is a limit of 500 to the expensive parser function count, i.e., the number of calls of expensive parser functions, which include:
Template:List of music students by teacher seems to be transcluded many times by that article. The first line of that template has the code:
That appears to be the source of the issue. So perhaps you can re-design what you're trying to do. Splitting List of music students by teacher into portions of the alphabet may help, as that list is getting quite long (a lot of notable music students on Wikipedia!). Regards, Wbm1058 ( talk) 15:24, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
P.S. Note that Template:List of music students by teacher/S is also in Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls. Wbm1058 ( talk) 15:26, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
HELLO? Your recent editing is generating all sorts of errors. For example Template:List of music students by teacher/Paul Hindemith is in Category:Pages with broken reference names and List of music students by teacher has been tagged with {{ dablinks}} by a bot. I don't really follow the point of what you are doing. Are you going to fix all of these errors? Please pause for a moment to discuss here; if you don't respond I may take this to the village pump. Thanks, Wbm1058 ( talk) 02:28, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Per the discussion above, I created {{ LMST}}. As it says on the documentation:
If this template seems worthwhile I could add it to the entries on the list. Hyacinth ( talk) 08:33, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
{{ LMSTA}} is very similar. It figures out for itself which page to link to, 'A to M' or 'N to Z', but requires first and last to be split into two parameters. Hyacinth ( talk) 09:44, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
{{
First word}}
and {{
Last word}}
might come in handy. All the best:
Rich
Farmbrough, 23:09, 9 December 2014 (UTC).I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of [[:List of music students by teacher: J to R]]'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Randel373":
Reference named "Randel229":
Reference named "Randel249":
Reference named "Randel568":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 16:31, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of music students by teacher: S to Z's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Randel482":
Reference named "Randel781":
Reference named "Randel45":
Reference named "Randel484":
Reference named "Randel25":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 16:17, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I believe I have used Google Books to search the following sources for the following phrases and added the available results to the list:
Source | Phrase (# of results) |
Source | Phrase (# of results) |
---|---|---|---|
Christensen (2002) |
|
Greene (1985) |
|
Griffiths (2004) |
|
Griffiths (2011) |
|
Jones (2014) |
|
Mason (1917) |
|
Randel (1996) |
|
Gagné (2012) |
|
Other possibilities are "teacher of" and "taught", "student/studied under", etc.. Most likely, there is a lot missed (even discounting missed phrasing such as "studied tuba with"). Hyacinth ( talk) 15:56, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
I have moved some citations, those with multiple callouts having page numbers, to a separate alphabetical list after the references:
I'll be making the corresponding changes to the other lists, but the final change is easier once other minor problems have been sorted out, as you can see from the recent edits to this article. We can I think leave citations without page numbers in the callouts as at present.
Any remaining missing citations (the original motivation for this change) will be tagged with {{
full}}
. Any callouts missing pages will be tagged with {{
page needed}}
--
Mirokado (
talk)
13:56, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Referring to Hyancinth's post above, I have resolved the Randel 1996 references in List of music students by teacher: R to S to The Harvard biographical dictionary of music (the first reference I checked was clear including correct page number). Another book by Randel was reprinted in 1996, so I suppose some of the references may also come from that. Here is the citation in case we need to add it later:
(I've also made this a subsection of the previous post so they can get archived together, for clarity). -- Mirokado ( talk) 14:08, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
I am surprised that no mention is made of Maurice Ravel in these lists. According to his biographer Arbie Orenstein, Ravel's main pupils were Maurice Delage, Alexis Roland-Manuel, Manuel Rosenthal and Ralph Vaughan Williams. Source: Orenstein, Arbie (1991) [1975]. Ravel: Man and Musician. Dover. ISBN 978-0-486-26633-6. page 112. Ravel's own teachers were Émile Decombes, Charles-Wilfrid de Bériot, Émile Pessard, André Gedalge and Gabriel Fauré. Source: Orenstein, pp. 11 (Decombes), 14 (de Bériot), 15 (Pessard) and 19 (Gedalge and Fauré). I had a go at adding this information myself, but I couldn't crack the coding of the table. – Tim riley talk 08:06, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi...I'm not a skilled enough wikipedian to understand the (what I see as) advanced code on this page, and so I don't want to mess with it myself. Would someone familiar with this page, however, be willing to create Pupils of Jean Sibelius, and add the following three individuals:
Many, many thanks!
Oh, and while we're at it, my research has found that Madetoja really wasn't a student of Vincent d'Indy, as the two only had ONE LESSON before the master fell ill and cancelled all further plans. Moreover, Madetoja was also a student of Robert Fuchs. Sgvrfjs ( talk) 16:00, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Also, Sibelius was, in addition to being a student of Robert Fuchs, a pupil of Karl Goldmark (who doesn't appear on the list as a teacher) and Martin Wegelius. Sgvrfjs ( talk) 16:05, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
{{LMSTA3|John|de Lancie}}, or even {{LMSTA|John|deLancie}}, produces a "pupils" link to the A to B page, when the link should point to the C to F page in this case. Is anyone able to correct the template? Tunborough ( talk) 02:18, 17 February 2017 (UTC) For the cases where a non-sorting prefix is separated by a space (for example "de", "von") we can proceed as follows, for example with Allard de Ridder (the first example I happen to have looked at:
{{DEFAULTSORT:Ridder, Allard de}}
so we indeed want to sort under "R".{{
LMSTT}}
and {{
LMSTA}}
invocations. This is OK because the templates are generating no metadata for each parameter. Thus we replace ...|Allard|de Ridder...
by ...|Allard de|Ridder...
in all the invocations.I've just done de Ridder and will start working through other examples, but they probably won't all be done in one session. -- Mirokado ( talk) 15:33, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
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George Enescu. Suggest Ginette Neveu is added to his pupil list. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 08:15, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
According to the wikipage Francesco Azopardi and, one presumes the reference given there, the thesis by Buhagiar, Azopardi was a student of Cotumaci, therefore deserving a link in the appropriate place. I tried, but the formatting of this section is obscure to me Brunswicknic ( talk) 08:00, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
Am I missing something JackofOz, Toccata quarta, Gerda Arendt, or should all of these lists be "List of classical music students by teacher"? I see a couple of Jazz musicians, but overwhelming just classical ones. If we keep the current name, people are going to start adding teachers of pop, rock etc. musicians. Aza24 ( talk) 22:39, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Happened upon this very interesting page while researching British pianist (Harold) John Hunt, who was very active in England and continental Europe between 1930 and 1963. He studied with Schnabel in Berlin between 1928 and 1930. I have a number of newspaper article attesting to the studies, and one source to the actual dates. Also studied with Harold Craxton at the RAM, as did Peter Katin. Neither is on the respective lists, so am not sure what the criteria for inclusion are. The potential immensity of this list suggests there must be some. Rgrames ( talk) 15:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
![]() | To list (
Help:List) a student, whose first and last names are XXX and YYY, use *{{LMSTA|XXX|YYY|no}}, which produces:
If the student is a teacher, use *{{LMSTA|XXX|YYY|yes}}, which produces: |
![]() | At the top of many article sections (
Help:Section) for teachers a template is used, such as, if the teacher was named XXX YYY and studied with teacher AAA BBB, {{LMSTT|YYY (birth-death)|AAA|BBB}}, which produces: this teacher's teachers YYY (birth-death) studied with teachers including
AAA BBB. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
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See: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical music/Archive 50#"Pupils and pupils of pupils of X". Hyacinth ( talk) 22:02, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
The students listed under Heinrich Schenker are actually students of Heinrich Schütz. I'll just go ahead and correct it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Batonpower ( talk • contribs) 16:13, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
List of music students by teacher is a member of Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls.
Edit that article, and then Show preview, and note the message at the top:
Warning: This page contains too many expensive parser function calls.
It should have less than 500 calls, there are now 3,877 calls.
As the category documentation explains:
Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls is populated automatically by the MediaWiki software. It lists articles that issue
too many expensive parser function calls. As of 14 October 2010, expensive function calls are #ifexist
, {{PAGESINCATEGORY}}
and {{PAGESIZE}}
. These pages should be edited to reduce the number of expensive calls.
Per WP:EXPENSIVE: There is a limit of 500 to the expensive parser function count, i.e., the number of calls of expensive parser functions, which include:
Template:List of music students by teacher seems to be transcluded many times by that article. The first line of that template has the code:
That appears to be the source of the issue. So perhaps you can re-design what you're trying to do. Splitting List of music students by teacher into portions of the alphabet may help, as that list is getting quite long (a lot of notable music students on Wikipedia!). Regards, Wbm1058 ( talk) 15:24, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
P.S. Note that Template:List of music students by teacher/S is also in Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls. Wbm1058 ( talk) 15:26, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
HELLO? Your recent editing is generating all sorts of errors. For example Template:List of music students by teacher/Paul Hindemith is in Category:Pages with broken reference names and List of music students by teacher has been tagged with {{ dablinks}} by a bot. I don't really follow the point of what you are doing. Are you going to fix all of these errors? Please pause for a moment to discuss here; if you don't respond I may take this to the village pump. Thanks, Wbm1058 ( talk) 02:28, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
Per the discussion above, I created {{ LMST}}. As it says on the documentation:
If this template seems worthwhile I could add it to the entries on the list. Hyacinth ( talk) 08:33, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
{{ LMSTA}} is very similar. It figures out for itself which page to link to, 'A to M' or 'N to Z', but requires first and last to be split into two parameters. Hyacinth ( talk) 09:44, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
{{
First word}}
and {{
Last word}}
might come in handy. All the best:
Rich
Farmbrough, 23:09, 9 December 2014 (UTC).I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of [[:List of music students by teacher: J to R]]'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Randel373":
Reference named "Randel229":
Reference named "Randel249":
Reference named "Randel568":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 16:31, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of music students by teacher: S to Z's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Randel482":
Reference named "Randel781":
Reference named "Randel45":
Reference named "Randel484":
Reference named "Randel25":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 16:17, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
I believe I have used Google Books to search the following sources for the following phrases and added the available results to the list:
Source | Phrase (# of results) |
Source | Phrase (# of results) |
---|---|---|---|
Christensen (2002) |
|
Greene (1985) |
|
Griffiths (2004) |
|
Griffiths (2011) |
|
Jones (2014) |
|
Mason (1917) |
|
Randel (1996) |
|
Gagné (2012) |
|
Other possibilities are "teacher of" and "taught", "student/studied under", etc.. Most likely, there is a lot missed (even discounting missed phrasing such as "studied tuba with"). Hyacinth ( talk) 15:56, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
I have moved some citations, those with multiple callouts having page numbers, to a separate alphabetical list after the references:
I'll be making the corresponding changes to the other lists, but the final change is easier once other minor problems have been sorted out, as you can see from the recent edits to this article. We can I think leave citations without page numbers in the callouts as at present.
Any remaining missing citations (the original motivation for this change) will be tagged with {{
full}}
. Any callouts missing pages will be tagged with {{
page needed}}
--
Mirokado (
talk)
13:56, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
Referring to Hyancinth's post above, I have resolved the Randel 1996 references in List of music students by teacher: R to S to The Harvard biographical dictionary of music (the first reference I checked was clear including correct page number). Another book by Randel was reprinted in 1996, so I suppose some of the references may also come from that. Here is the citation in case we need to add it later:
(I've also made this a subsection of the previous post so they can get archived together, for clarity). -- Mirokado ( talk) 14:08, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
I am surprised that no mention is made of Maurice Ravel in these lists. According to his biographer Arbie Orenstein, Ravel's main pupils were Maurice Delage, Alexis Roland-Manuel, Manuel Rosenthal and Ralph Vaughan Williams. Source: Orenstein, Arbie (1991) [1975]. Ravel: Man and Musician. Dover. ISBN 978-0-486-26633-6. page 112. Ravel's own teachers were Émile Decombes, Charles-Wilfrid de Bériot, Émile Pessard, André Gedalge and Gabriel Fauré. Source: Orenstein, pp. 11 (Decombes), 14 (de Bériot), 15 (Pessard) and 19 (Gedalge and Fauré). I had a go at adding this information myself, but I couldn't crack the coding of the table. – Tim riley talk 08:06, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi...I'm not a skilled enough wikipedian to understand the (what I see as) advanced code on this page, and so I don't want to mess with it myself. Would someone familiar with this page, however, be willing to create Pupils of Jean Sibelius, and add the following three individuals:
Many, many thanks!
Oh, and while we're at it, my research has found that Madetoja really wasn't a student of Vincent d'Indy, as the two only had ONE LESSON before the master fell ill and cancelled all further plans. Moreover, Madetoja was also a student of Robert Fuchs. Sgvrfjs ( talk) 16:00, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Also, Sibelius was, in addition to being a student of Robert Fuchs, a pupil of Karl Goldmark (who doesn't appear on the list as a teacher) and Martin Wegelius. Sgvrfjs ( talk) 16:05, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
{{LMSTA3|John|de Lancie}}, or even {{LMSTA|John|deLancie}}, produces a "pupils" link to the A to B page, when the link should point to the C to F page in this case. Is anyone able to correct the template? Tunborough ( talk) 02:18, 17 February 2017 (UTC) For the cases where a non-sorting prefix is separated by a space (for example "de", "von") we can proceed as follows, for example with Allard de Ridder (the first example I happen to have looked at:
{{DEFAULTSORT:Ridder, Allard de}}
so we indeed want to sort under "R".{{
LMSTT}}
and {{
LMSTA}}
invocations. This is OK because the templates are generating no metadata for each parameter. Thus we replace ...|Allard|de Ridder...
by ...|Allard de|Ridder...
in all the invocations.I've just done de Ridder and will start working through other examples, but they probably won't all be done in one session. -- Mirokado ( talk) 15:33, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
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George Enescu. Suggest Ginette Neveu is added to his pupil list. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 08:15, 24 March 2019 (UTC)
According to the wikipage Francesco Azopardi and, one presumes the reference given there, the thesis by Buhagiar, Azopardi was a student of Cotumaci, therefore deserving a link in the appropriate place. I tried, but the formatting of this section is obscure to me Brunswicknic ( talk) 08:00, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
Am I missing something JackofOz, Toccata quarta, Gerda Arendt, or should all of these lists be "List of classical music students by teacher"? I see a couple of Jazz musicians, but overwhelming just classical ones. If we keep the current name, people are going to start adding teachers of pop, rock etc. musicians. Aza24 ( talk) 22:39, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
Happened upon this very interesting page while researching British pianist (Harold) John Hunt, who was very active in England and continental Europe between 1930 and 1963. He studied with Schnabel in Berlin between 1928 and 1930. I have a number of newspaper article attesting to the studies, and one source to the actual dates. Also studied with Harold Craxton at the RAM, as did Peter Katin. Neither is on the respective lists, so am not sure what the criteria for inclusion are. The potential immensity of this list suggests there must be some. Rgrames ( talk) 15:21, 12 March 2021 (UTC)