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It's hard to skim down this list because of the huge breaks between entries, which is caused by long blocks of text in the very narrow Notes column. A couple of suggested solutions:
* Could this column be made much wider? Ideally the contents of any column would take up no more than 2 lines. * Could some of the text and links in the Notes column be moved to the pages for the projects themselves?
-- Danylstrype ( talk) 11:23, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
It is controversial and rises debate to compare (1) the "typical" Kickstarter-like crowdfunding with (2) cryptocurrency crowdsales (e.g. MasterCoin) and (3) with investments in a hedge fund (TheDAO). In (1) people donate money to support a project receiving rewards/perks in return. In (2) the money is not donated but invested (i.e. with the main purpose of receiving more money in the future), receiving only the token bought (i.e. similar to a bond/share, which has no more uses beyond buying/selling). In (3) is even clearer the investment nature of it, as The DAO is a hedge fund by definition, and more similar to an IPO of a company searching for investors. As the current definition of crowdfunding includes investment-type or equity-based crowdfunding, others argue to keep (2) and (3) in the table. I'd suggest just to at least differentiate both types in the table (maybe even more types), with a new column, so they are not to be confused with each other. -- Samer.hc ( talk) 20:30, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
It is clear that this article has some serious sourcing issues across many of its entries, so what is to be done about this? We can't just leave '3rd party source required' tags on each claimed funding total indefinitely; if a claim cannot be sourced, it must be removed and replaced with one that is reliable. The Star Citizen entry especially has been marked as such for four months with no sign of a source, despite having an editor updating it daily and showing very possessive behaviour towards it; the first 3rd-party source I could find on its funding was 65 million from The Guardian, and I will be editing the article in accordance with this. Phantom Hoover ( talk) 13:47, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
You mention "grey area of monetised preordering" and accuse me of fanboyism only because I take care of updating the crowdfunding amount of several SC-related articles. And you call ME biased. How fantasticly ironic :P KurtMaverick ( talk) 00:03, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
There should be no references to Original Research. According to WP:RS, Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Original Research is not allowed. In my opinion, any reference to a project home page is invalid. Then there is the question about references to Kickstarter pages, etc. Should they be considered third-party source? I don't think so. Kickstarter is not a third party in this case, they are one of the actors. LarsPensjo ( talk) 18:27, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
This list is becoming increasingly populated by what most amounts to self-sourced Ethereum based block chain projects, which don't have clear and obvious monetary values. I don't have a solution, but starting a discussion in case anyone has ideas. For example, some of the recent entries are only sourced to their own sites, where they claim a certain amount raised that is not in any known currency we can convert. -- ferret ( talk) 12:40, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
No blockchains should be re-added without reliable secondary sourcing that proves their claims of an amount raised in a known currency we can convert. WP:V must be met, and a bunch of primary sourced only promotion entries should be kept out. -- ferret ( talk) 13:40, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
" raised in a known currency we can convert. ". Why do you keep saying this? They raise Ethereum, which can be converted and the amounts raised are public ledger. Anyone can easily go to the ICO contract address and verify themselves that they have indeed raised that amount. That's a nonsense reason for removal. I agree with adding a warning to them though. Maybe not as a ponzi scheme but as a purely speculative investment. 67.83.104.190 ( talk) 16:45, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
All ICOs should probably go into a new page of their own, with cross-linking between the two. Ethereum ICOs can then become a special category in this article. Btcgeek ( talk) 21:28, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
It's very difficult to address multiple out-of-order mid-discussion replies. Since some people seem to be misunderstanding: Wikipedia requires reliable sourcing. I don't know that Coindesk has been accepted as such, but its a start. This list sorts and is listed by USD, so it's very important to have a sourcable USD values. For block chains, this becomes difficult, because the ICO are based in ETH. What was the conversion rate for ETH to USD on the date of the ICO? How much fluctuation over the course of the ICO? Is there a source to back it? Many of the entries added have stated only a quantity of ETH being raised, which makes their position in the list incorrect at best, as well as only being primarily sourced. There's a claim above that the USD to ETH conversion is frequently quoted in mainstream news, and yet most entries are missing them. Entries without sourcing need to be removed, this is a core policy of Wikipedia. It's also clear some canvassing is going on, which usually happens from Reddit whenever someone applies policy and cleans up unsourced or improperly sourced entries in lists. To clarify again: If the sourcing is available, that's great. This list has seen a flood of projects however with no secondary reliable sourcing, or no sourcing at all, and the WP:BURDEN to add such sourcing falls on those who want the entries added. -- ferret ( talk) 01:21, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Agree. Reputable sources call these projects Ponzi schemes (per the Atlantic Monthly) (per the Financial Times). These are investment schemes and clearly not crowdfunding in the traditional sense (where a product is pre-sold or users make charitable contributions). Even though their legitimacy is highly questionable, whether they are legitimate or not does not really matter for the purposes of the present discussion; being investment programs, legitimate or not, they should be on their own page/within their own category and not on this one. Flibber2388 ( talk) 16:33, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
This is a list of crowd funding projects, which is not restricted to certain categories. If there is a need for a list limited to donation crowdfunded, please go ahead and create such a page. Do not change the purpose of this page. LarsPensjo ( talk) 05:16, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should blockchain Initial coin offering products be included on this "crowdfunding" list? Flibber2388 ( talk) 20:43, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
what was the result of the three previous discussions on this talk page? i do not see anybody summarizing them to indicate a definitive course of action to do next to resolve the issues raised here.. has any Admin taken a look? —-— .:nimbosa:. ( talk • contribs) 09:41, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
I've blanked this page because of repeated copyright violations from various sources, going back at least to revision 572640865 in 2013. It can be rewritten at this page. All the factual table content can be copied straight across (there's no copyright in non-creative content such as this), but none of the descriptions in the Notes column should be copied into the new version until and unless they have been thoroughly checked. A much simpler solution, if there's consensus for it here, would be to just remove that column altogether. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 11:20, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
@ Justlettersandnumbers: Please give a detailed example how one of the notes violates a copyright. E.g. You linked to http://iex.ec/. How is the note for this entry violating any copyright? LarsPensjo ( talk) 04:00, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
@ Justlettersandnumbers: Now that Ark25 has removed some of the violation, is it safe to remove the tag? I notice that the article is now clean of copyvios from the 3rd link and very little remains from the other 2. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) ( talk) 06:00, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
what exactly remains as an issue here jd22292? Any CopyVio Left? i hope nobody is doing this out of spite for the wretched ICO's, we can be objective here.. the ostensible reason was CopyVio so just shoot the instances of copyright violation, we don't need to shoot the ico's, UNLESS Wikipedia has a policy AGAINST ico's, do we? —-— .:nimbosa:. ( talk • contribs) 09:28, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
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Does anyone have an easy way to update that list of numbers? There are clearly several entrys that have no sources avalible and need to be removed. Also some have numbers on there that the sources say are much lower. Of course it is missing lots that have real sources. Should I just compile a list and make a lot of changes at once? Or am I missing easy formating and edditing option. Cause as it stands pretty much anyone can go in and add a company with no sources and pretty much no one will take it out cause it takes 20 minutes just to update the numbering. Archersbobsburgers ( talk) 15:49, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Where is Gloomhaven? The game was originally sold via a 2015 Kickstarter campaign which raised $386,104 from 4,904 backers.[7] and after strong early reviews, a second Kickstarter campaign was launched on April 4th and delivered in November which raised about $4 million from over 40,000 backers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.23.119.157 ( talk) 08:01, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Unless I'm just being particularly unobservant, there's no key to the color coding in the "funds raised" column of the chart. It would appear that red is for unmet goals and green for met/surpassed goals, but that doesn't seem to be consistently applied nor does it explain uncolored boxes. Could someone who has more familiarity with this article add a key or note to the bottom of the table, or if it exists perhaps make it more prominent? Thanks! 68.168.176.65 ( talk) 23:27, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
Wyrmwood Gaming has hit 4.82 million on their new kickstarter for a new gaming table today in less than 24 hours with 58 days remaining in the campaign. It't to soon to know the final number so im not adding it to the table just yet, though others feel free if i never get back to this [1] –– Ladyamphy ( talk) 13:00, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Maybe there is a reason why, but I don't see any mention of this: /info/en/?search=BD_Bacat%C3%A1#Crowdfunding The source cited in that page lists the project at $170,000,000 USD based on the 2013 exchange rate. Seems like it would be pretty high up on the page? This wiki page /info/en/?search=Prodigy_Network says that it raised $200,000,000. 98.122.169.179 ( talk) 22:41, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
my family 🔥🚉 for contact with you get a chance please let me know what you think 🤔 for payment on eat it up to be able it tryes to open the office at my house at office at my phone app every time it is only option atm 🏧 for payment on Paypal to be able to do it⛽ 78.1.188.135 ( talk) 20:03, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi all,
There's an entry in this list called "Tuttle Twins" - it's an animated series for kids, it really was crowdfunded, but the source linked goes directly to their website, which no longer provides the $3,700,000 anywhere that I could find. Further, if that number is accurate, it should appear 84th on the list rather than 101st. Not sure how to tag this, as I believe the user likely cited the number when it was listed on the website and it was since removed - I don't believe that the source was always wrong.
WellRehearsedWhale ( talk) 06:02, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
ZrCoin has a variety of issues here - the source given does not claim they reached their ICO goal of $3.5m, and no source is given for the $4.2m number in the article. They have claimed, to different outlets at different times, $3.7m, $7m, and eventually $16m was raised off of the ICO. Their public-facing materials simply state that "ICO successfully completed!" but no numbers are given on their website, and because it appears the project was abandoned in 2019, it's possible final or accurate numbers may never become available.
WellRehearsedWhale ( talk) 06:15, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
I would expect a sum raised to represent money received before first release of something. If people buy the finished product I wouldn't say the money was crowdfunded.
Some of the figures are in the 500 million USD range. Was this money crowdfunded from people hoping to get the product one day, or much of it paid once the product was available? - Tournesol ( talk) 09:53, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Shouldn't this list include LightSail? /info/en/?search=LightSail 207.141.116.122 ( talk) 17:40, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
When listing the end dates by descending order, the dates are listed in reverse alphabetical by their MONTH, not reverse chronologically. This does not happen for the ascending sort. 184.182.113.209 ( talk) 06:23, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
I can see that this has been discussed quite a bit in the past. However, I would suggest that this page is pretty useless as is. All the blockchain projects listed here are not really legitimate crowdfunding projects. I believe those should be removed from this page, potentially moved to another page if need be, and this page restricted to legitimate crowdfunding projects. Paul Thompson ( talk) 20:13, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of highest-funded crowdfunding projects article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was nominated for deletion on 9 September 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
It's hard to skim down this list because of the huge breaks between entries, which is caused by long blocks of text in the very narrow Notes column. A couple of suggested solutions:
* Could this column be made much wider? Ideally the contents of any column would take up no more than 2 lines. * Could some of the text and links in the Notes column be moved to the pages for the projects themselves?
-- Danylstrype ( talk) 11:23, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
It is controversial and rises debate to compare (1) the "typical" Kickstarter-like crowdfunding with (2) cryptocurrency crowdsales (e.g. MasterCoin) and (3) with investments in a hedge fund (TheDAO). In (1) people donate money to support a project receiving rewards/perks in return. In (2) the money is not donated but invested (i.e. with the main purpose of receiving more money in the future), receiving only the token bought (i.e. similar to a bond/share, which has no more uses beyond buying/selling). In (3) is even clearer the investment nature of it, as The DAO is a hedge fund by definition, and more similar to an IPO of a company searching for investors. As the current definition of crowdfunding includes investment-type or equity-based crowdfunding, others argue to keep (2) and (3) in the table. I'd suggest just to at least differentiate both types in the table (maybe even more types), with a new column, so they are not to be confused with each other. -- Samer.hc ( talk) 20:30, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
It is clear that this article has some serious sourcing issues across many of its entries, so what is to be done about this? We can't just leave '3rd party source required' tags on each claimed funding total indefinitely; if a claim cannot be sourced, it must be removed and replaced with one that is reliable. The Star Citizen entry especially has been marked as such for four months with no sign of a source, despite having an editor updating it daily and showing very possessive behaviour towards it; the first 3rd-party source I could find on its funding was 65 million from The Guardian, and I will be editing the article in accordance with this. Phantom Hoover ( talk) 13:47, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
You mention "grey area of monetised preordering" and accuse me of fanboyism only because I take care of updating the crowdfunding amount of several SC-related articles. And you call ME biased. How fantasticly ironic :P KurtMaverick ( talk) 00:03, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
There should be no references to Original Research. According to WP:RS, Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. Original Research is not allowed. In my opinion, any reference to a project home page is invalid. Then there is the question about references to Kickstarter pages, etc. Should they be considered third-party source? I don't think so. Kickstarter is not a third party in this case, they are one of the actors. LarsPensjo ( talk) 18:27, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
This list is becoming increasingly populated by what most amounts to self-sourced Ethereum based block chain projects, which don't have clear and obvious monetary values. I don't have a solution, but starting a discussion in case anyone has ideas. For example, some of the recent entries are only sourced to their own sites, where they claim a certain amount raised that is not in any known currency we can convert. -- ferret ( talk) 12:40, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
No blockchains should be re-added without reliable secondary sourcing that proves their claims of an amount raised in a known currency we can convert. WP:V must be met, and a bunch of primary sourced only promotion entries should be kept out. -- ferret ( talk) 13:40, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
" raised in a known currency we can convert. ". Why do you keep saying this? They raise Ethereum, which can be converted and the amounts raised are public ledger. Anyone can easily go to the ICO contract address and verify themselves that they have indeed raised that amount. That's a nonsense reason for removal. I agree with adding a warning to them though. Maybe not as a ponzi scheme but as a purely speculative investment. 67.83.104.190 ( talk) 16:45, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
All ICOs should probably go into a new page of their own, with cross-linking between the two. Ethereum ICOs can then become a special category in this article. Btcgeek ( talk) 21:28, 3 July 2017 (UTC)
It's very difficult to address multiple out-of-order mid-discussion replies. Since some people seem to be misunderstanding: Wikipedia requires reliable sourcing. I don't know that Coindesk has been accepted as such, but its a start. This list sorts and is listed by USD, so it's very important to have a sourcable USD values. For block chains, this becomes difficult, because the ICO are based in ETH. What was the conversion rate for ETH to USD on the date of the ICO? How much fluctuation over the course of the ICO? Is there a source to back it? Many of the entries added have stated only a quantity of ETH being raised, which makes their position in the list incorrect at best, as well as only being primarily sourced. There's a claim above that the USD to ETH conversion is frequently quoted in mainstream news, and yet most entries are missing them. Entries without sourcing need to be removed, this is a core policy of Wikipedia. It's also clear some canvassing is going on, which usually happens from Reddit whenever someone applies policy and cleans up unsourced or improperly sourced entries in lists. To clarify again: If the sourcing is available, that's great. This list has seen a flood of projects however with no secondary reliable sourcing, or no sourcing at all, and the WP:BURDEN to add such sourcing falls on those who want the entries added. -- ferret ( talk) 01:21, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Agree. Reputable sources call these projects Ponzi schemes (per the Atlantic Monthly) (per the Financial Times). These are investment schemes and clearly not crowdfunding in the traditional sense (where a product is pre-sold or users make charitable contributions). Even though their legitimacy is highly questionable, whether they are legitimate or not does not really matter for the purposes of the present discussion; being investment programs, legitimate or not, they should be on their own page/within their own category and not on this one. Flibber2388 ( talk) 16:33, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
This is a list of crowd funding projects, which is not restricted to certain categories. If there is a need for a list limited to donation crowdfunded, please go ahead and create such a page. Do not change the purpose of this page. LarsPensjo ( talk) 05:16, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Should blockchain Initial coin offering products be included on this "crowdfunding" list? Flibber2388 ( talk) 20:43, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
what was the result of the three previous discussions on this talk page? i do not see anybody summarizing them to indicate a definitive course of action to do next to resolve the issues raised here.. has any Admin taken a look? —-— .:nimbosa:. ( talk • contribs) 09:41, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
I've blanked this page because of repeated copyright violations from various sources, going back at least to revision 572640865 in 2013. It can be rewritten at this page. All the factual table content can be copied straight across (there's no copyright in non-creative content such as this), but none of the descriptions in the Notes column should be copied into the new version until and unless they have been thoroughly checked. A much simpler solution, if there's consensus for it here, would be to just remove that column altogether. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 11:20, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
@ Justlettersandnumbers: Please give a detailed example how one of the notes violates a copyright. E.g. You linked to http://iex.ec/. How is the note for this entry violating any copyright? LarsPensjo ( talk) 04:00, 12 July 2017 (UTC)
@ Justlettersandnumbers: Now that Ark25 has removed some of the violation, is it safe to remove the tag? I notice that the article is now clean of copyvios from the 3rd link and very little remains from the other 2. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) ( talk) 06:00, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
what exactly remains as an issue here jd22292? Any CopyVio Left? i hope nobody is doing this out of spite for the wretched ICO's, we can be objective here.. the ostensible reason was CopyVio so just shoot the instances of copyright violation, we don't need to shoot the ico's, UNLESS Wikipedia has a policy AGAINST ico's, do we? —-— .:nimbosa:. ( talk • contribs) 09:28, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on List of highest funded crowdfunding projects. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:59, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
Does anyone have an easy way to update that list of numbers? There are clearly several entrys that have no sources avalible and need to be removed. Also some have numbers on there that the sources say are much lower. Of course it is missing lots that have real sources. Should I just compile a list and make a lot of changes at once? Or am I missing easy formating and edditing option. Cause as it stands pretty much anyone can go in and add a company with no sources and pretty much no one will take it out cause it takes 20 minutes just to update the numbering. Archersbobsburgers ( talk) 15:49, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
Where is Gloomhaven? The game was originally sold via a 2015 Kickstarter campaign which raised $386,104 from 4,904 backers.[7] and after strong early reviews, a second Kickstarter campaign was launched on April 4th and delivered in November which raised about $4 million from over 40,000 backers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.23.119.157 ( talk) 08:01, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
Unless I'm just being particularly unobservant, there's no key to the color coding in the "funds raised" column of the chart. It would appear that red is for unmet goals and green for met/surpassed goals, but that doesn't seem to be consistently applied nor does it explain uncolored boxes. Could someone who has more familiarity with this article add a key or note to the bottom of the table, or if it exists perhaps make it more prominent? Thanks! 68.168.176.65 ( talk) 23:27, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
Wyrmwood Gaming has hit 4.82 million on their new kickstarter for a new gaming table today in less than 24 hours with 58 days remaining in the campaign. It't to soon to know the final number so im not adding it to the table just yet, though others feel free if i never get back to this [1] –– Ladyamphy ( talk) 13:00, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Maybe there is a reason why, but I don't see any mention of this: /info/en/?search=BD_Bacat%C3%A1#Crowdfunding The source cited in that page lists the project at $170,000,000 USD based on the 2013 exchange rate. Seems like it would be pretty high up on the page? This wiki page /info/en/?search=Prodigy_Network says that it raised $200,000,000. 98.122.169.179 ( talk) 22:41, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
my family 🔥🚉 for contact with you get a chance please let me know what you think 🤔 for payment on eat it up to be able it tryes to open the office at my house at office at my phone app every time it is only option atm 🏧 for payment on Paypal to be able to do it⛽ 78.1.188.135 ( talk) 20:03, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Hi all,
There's an entry in this list called "Tuttle Twins" - it's an animated series for kids, it really was crowdfunded, but the source linked goes directly to their website, which no longer provides the $3,700,000 anywhere that I could find. Further, if that number is accurate, it should appear 84th on the list rather than 101st. Not sure how to tag this, as I believe the user likely cited the number when it was listed on the website and it was since removed - I don't believe that the source was always wrong.
WellRehearsedWhale ( talk) 06:02, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
ZrCoin has a variety of issues here - the source given does not claim they reached their ICO goal of $3.5m, and no source is given for the $4.2m number in the article. They have claimed, to different outlets at different times, $3.7m, $7m, and eventually $16m was raised off of the ICO. Their public-facing materials simply state that "ICO successfully completed!" but no numbers are given on their website, and because it appears the project was abandoned in 2019, it's possible final or accurate numbers may never become available.
WellRehearsedWhale ( talk) 06:15, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
I would expect a sum raised to represent money received before first release of something. If people buy the finished product I wouldn't say the money was crowdfunded.
Some of the figures are in the 500 million USD range. Was this money crowdfunded from people hoping to get the product one day, or much of it paid once the product was available? - Tournesol ( talk) 09:53, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Shouldn't this list include LightSail? /info/en/?search=LightSail 207.141.116.122 ( talk) 17:40, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
When listing the end dates by descending order, the dates are listed in reverse alphabetical by their MONTH, not reverse chronologically. This does not happen for the ascending sort. 184.182.113.209 ( talk) 06:23, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
I can see that this has been discussed quite a bit in the past. However, I would suggest that this page is pretty useless as is. All the blockchain projects listed here are not really legitimate crowdfunding projects. I believe those should be removed from this page, potentially moved to another page if need be, and this page restricted to legitimate crowdfunding projects. Paul Thompson ( talk) 20:13, 28 March 2024 (UTC)