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dose anyone knew if it is possible to add a voice actor list (witch could use the number than just tske away thier live action roles than their you go) Fanoflionking 23:28, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
dose anyone know if it possible to created highest grossing animal actors Fanoflionking 23:30, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
The voice actors list strikes me as a bad idea. Voice actors are generally not box office draws in themselves, and since they can be more prolific than "regular" actors, their numbers can be skewed. Also, many of the actors listed generally have small roles. Trivialist ( talk) 16:33, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
Why is Stan Lee listed as an actor? His own wiki page describes him only as a writer, editor, publisher, and producer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shesthebomb ( talk • contribs) 15:54, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
We need to ask ourselves whether this list represents a meaningful compilation of data. The
WP:LEAD already states that this list is largely meaningless for comparing acting careers widely separated in time
, which raises the question of what the list is meaningful for. In other words, what is this list's raison d'être?
The list puts leading roles, supporting roles, voice acting, and cameos on equal footing, which is obviously comparing apples to oranges. The top spot is held by
Stan Lee, whose entire acting career—
save for three films grossing a total of $343,358 where he is either an interviewee or a documentary subject— consists of cameos. The current number 43 is
Mickie McGowan, who does not have a Wikipedia article and whose credits are chiefly along the lines of "Additional Voice(s)" in various animated movies (
The Numbers lists the following: Best-known acting roles: Additonal Voice (Despicable Me 2), Additional Voice (Minions), Police Officer Edith (Up), Additional Voice (Doctor Seuss' The Lorax), Additional Voices (Monsters, Inc.)
. I don't think that this is the kind of data people who visit this list expect or want, and I don't think it's useful since there is no particularly meaningful way to compare Stan Lee (who appears almost exclusively in cameos) at #1,
Samuel L. Jackson (who is often in leading roles or ensemble casts) at #2,
John Ratzenberger (a voice actor who mainly does supporting roles) at #3,
Bob Bergen (a voice actor who mainly does "additional voices") at #5, and
Warwick Davis (who mainly appears in supporting roles in live-action films) at #7. These are all completely different types of acting careers.
If this list cannot be used to meaningfully compare different actors' careers, then it is functionally just a mirror of the information at https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-star-records/worldwide/lifetime-acting/top-grossing-stars, the source for all this data (and I'm not sure if that's allowed by our copyright policy). Without any context to help interpret the data in a meaningful way, this is essentially just an WP:INDISCRIMINATE collection of WP:RAWDATA. In order to make it possible to meaningfully compare different actors' careers, the data would need to be curated in a way I don't think we can achieve without engaging in WP:Original research.
I don't think this is a fixable problem; it seems to me like a Garbage in, garbage out kind of deal. I would suggest scrapping the list entirely. TompaDompa ( talk) 11:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
What if we shortened the list and have separate lists
For example Fanoflionking 18:30, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I don't think we can achieve without engaging in WP:Original research.Can we? TompaDompa ( talk) 18:35, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
The number dose have pages for each of the lists above see below for the acting lists https://m.the-numbers.com/box-office-star-records/worldwide/lifetime-acting/ Surely there something we can produce Fanoflionking 18:45, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Just find a lists on there for Digital Animation Movie, Hand Animation, Stop-Motion Animation so it could be possible to produce a voice acting list by combining those list Fanoflionking 18:53, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I would suggest the following lists:
The problem with voice acting is that someone might be a voice actor in a live-action film (such as Frank Oz as Yoda in Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith or Bradley Cooper as Rocket Raccoon in the MCU), so it might not be possible to isolate the voice acting roles. TompaDompa ( talk) 19:05, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I looked into it a bit, and no, we can't use the source tables like that. Specifically, I looked at Alan Tudyk's films. It breaks down thusly:
There are two problems that are immediately obvious here: For one, this list does not include his role as Iago in the 2019 Aladdin, which must mean that that role counts as one of his live-action roles (from what I can gather from other sources, this was voice acting only, though that could be wrong). More egregiously, this includes a role as Hot Rod in Transformers: The Last Knight, which according to other sources was not voiced by him but by Omar Sy. This throws the accuracy (and thus reliability) of the source into question. I also did the calculation for Scarlett Johansson:
This also sums to $1,797,826,392. This means her voice acting role in Her is counted as a live-action role. Maybe we'll have to scrap this after all. TompaDompa ( talk) 16:56, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
This first chart is leads in an animated feature films
Rank | Actor | Worldwide total [1] | Top-grossing film | Films | Average |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Steve Carell | $4,355,912,391 | Despicable Me 3 ($1,034,724,710) | 6 | $725,985,399 |
2 | Tom Hanks | $3,330,361,564 | Toy story 4 ($1,073,394,813) | 5 | $666,072,313 |
3 | Josh Gad | $3,219,752,644 | Frozen II ($1,448,203,157) | 4 | $804,938,161 |
4 | Denis Leary | $3,179,639,301 | Ice Age: Continental Drift ($879,765,137) | 5 | $635,927,860 |
6 | Ray Romano | $3,179,639,301 | 5 | $635,927,860 | |
7 | Tim Allen | $3,018,178,127 | Toy story 4 ($1,073,394,813) | 4 | $754,544,532 |
8 | Mike Myers | $2,991,173,233 | shrek 2 ($108,255,770) | $754,544,532 | |
9 | Eddie Murphy | ||||
10 | Cameron Diaz |
This second chart is a voice acting in feature films
Rank | Voice actor | Worldwide total [2] | Top-grossing film | Films | Average |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Frank Welker | $15,793,141,099 | Transformers: Dark of the Moon ($1,123,794,079) | 110 | $143,574,010 |
2 | John Ratzenberger | $15,268,166,395 | Incredibles 2 ($1,242,805,359) | 26 | $587,237,169 |
3 | Bob Bergen | $15,458,463,520 | Minions ($1,159,398,397) | 40 | $386,461,588 |
4 | Alan Tudyk | $12,146,623,828 | Frozen II ($1,448,800,077) | 14 | $867,615,987 |
5 | Jess Harnell | $9,992,358,235 | Minions ($1,159,398,397) | 21 | $475,826,583 |
6 | Jack Angel | $8,934,242,501 | Toy story 3 ($1,066,969,703) | 26 | $343,624,712 |
7 | Bill Farmer | $8,920,179,553 | ' Minions ($1,159,398,397) | 22 | $405,462,707 |
8 | Sherry Lynn | $8,919,390,247 | 25 | $356,775,610 | |
9 | Danny Mann | $8,341,145,950 | 17 | $490,655,644 | |
10 | Laraine Newman | $8,010,387,020 | 19 | $421,599,317 |
Thoughts Fanoflionking 15:36, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
I should of said to get info of the second chart a dive into each individual actors pages and added each voice acting gross Fanoflionking 15:49, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok so the second chart is OR what dose the first chart count as Fanoflionking 21:05, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
As you can see, this also sums up to $3,585,096,045. The Numbers counts Hanks' role in The Polar Express as a leading role in an animated film, but also as a live-action role. The more I look into their lists, the less reliable they seem for the purposes of this list. I don't think we can use The Numbers at all for this list, frankly. Their quality control is simply not up to snuff. TompaDompa ( talk) 22:24, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
References
Paul Bettany's highest grossing film is listed as Avengers: Endgame, however, he doesn't appear in that film at all. JDDJS ( talk to me • see what I've done) 15:31, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
Articles for which thorough attempts to find reliable sources to verify them have failed. TompaDompa ( talk) 16:04, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
This list seems to have a number of errors, however when a user tries to fix those errors it gets reverted because "that isn't what the source says" however that isn't a very good excuse if the source we are using for this is verifiably wrong. Hugo Weaving's highest grossing film is The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King at $1.142 billion and not Transformers: Dark of the Moon at $1.124 billion so that shouldn't be reverted back to what the Numbers source says since we have other sources that show that Hugo Weaving was in a higher grossing film. Paul Bettany was not in Avengers: Endgame (which you can see on his Wikipedia page and the Endgame page as well) and with that movie missing he would not make it in the top 20 of any of these lists. People who try to fix these errors shouldn't be reverted just because we have one source that is incorrect that the majority of this list is relying on. Chukulem ( talk) 21:09, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
Has Anyone Updated John Ratzenbergers box office count from "Soul"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spacecowasd ( talk • contribs) 06:36, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
I believe the article title needs to be "List of highest-grossing (Hollywood) actors". Otherwise, this is misleading and most probably highly inaccurate. Lipwe ( talk) 08:07, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
It is listed that Samuel Jackson appeared in Avengers:Endgame as a Lead role.But based on the movie it is a cameo role. BlonkoRook ( talk) 11:32, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
How can we decide if an actor/actress is in a lead role? I mean what’s the deciding factor or criteria as this is Wikipedia, information should be backed by facts and undisputed factors. Akt 2000 ( talk) 07:26, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Rockchalk717: Would you care to explain why you don't believe the maintenance templates you removed apply? TompaDompa ( talk) 00:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
@ The Transhumanist: The source ( https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-star-records/worldwide/lifetime-acting/top-grossing-stars) appears to be wrong. We don't disagree there—I have listed numerous apparent errors here on the talk page and tagged them in the article itself. The problem is that we can't "fix" the list by correcting its errors without engaging in WP:Original research. We can have a list that is consistent with the source—and wrong—or we can have a list that is based on WP:Original research. Obviously neither option is satisfactory, but the latter is prohibited by policy. TompaDompa ( talk) 09:21, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
Why is it necessary to decide on all the errors before making any edits to fix them?It's a ranked list. The positions matter. Fixing errors would mean adjusting ranks. If we don't have a consistent approach, we end up with a WP:SYNTH mess.
"The list needs to be updated in its entirety all at once" is unjustifiedIt's a ranked list. Surely you understand that if we update some of the entries but not the rest, we are misrepresenting the cited source? We can't give the gross for actor X as of 2023, actor Y as of 2017, and actor Z as of 2011 if their grosses have changed in the meantime. The list also has a "The list is updated as of [date]" note at the top to inform the reader of how up-to-date (or out-of-date) the list is. TompaDompa ( talk) 16:49, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
I've removed the Paul Bettany entry. — The Transhumanist 06:35, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
I know that the source excludes Avengers: Endgame from his roster (for some unknown reason) but, that's his highest-grossing movie regardless of him not being credited as a lead actor due to the circumstances of the previous movie. Saying that Avengers: Infinity War is his highest-grossing movie is somewhat misleading, especially due to the same circumstances of Infinity War being the reason why Benedict Cumberbatch and Chris Pratt aren't credited as lead actors in Endgame, despite Endgame being listed as their highest-grossing movie. 4TheLuvOfFax ( talk) 15:13, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
This page was proposed for deletion by Sahaib3005 ( talk · contribs) on 17 October 2021. |
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
dose anyone knew if it is possible to add a voice actor list (witch could use the number than just tske away thier live action roles than their you go) Fanoflionking 23:28, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
dose anyone know if it possible to created highest grossing animal actors Fanoflionking 23:30, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
The voice actors list strikes me as a bad idea. Voice actors are generally not box office draws in themselves, and since they can be more prolific than "regular" actors, their numbers can be skewed. Also, many of the actors listed generally have small roles. Trivialist ( talk) 16:33, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
Why is Stan Lee listed as an actor? His own wiki page describes him only as a writer, editor, publisher, and producer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shesthebomb ( talk • contribs) 15:54, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
We need to ask ourselves whether this list represents a meaningful compilation of data. The
WP:LEAD already states that this list is largely meaningless for comparing acting careers widely separated in time
, which raises the question of what the list is meaningful for. In other words, what is this list's raison d'être?
The list puts leading roles, supporting roles, voice acting, and cameos on equal footing, which is obviously comparing apples to oranges. The top spot is held by
Stan Lee, whose entire acting career—
save for three films grossing a total of $343,358 where he is either an interviewee or a documentary subject— consists of cameos. The current number 43 is
Mickie McGowan, who does not have a Wikipedia article and whose credits are chiefly along the lines of "Additional Voice(s)" in various animated movies (
The Numbers lists the following: Best-known acting roles: Additonal Voice (Despicable Me 2), Additional Voice (Minions), Police Officer Edith (Up), Additional Voice (Doctor Seuss' The Lorax), Additional Voices (Monsters, Inc.)
. I don't think that this is the kind of data people who visit this list expect or want, and I don't think it's useful since there is no particularly meaningful way to compare Stan Lee (who appears almost exclusively in cameos) at #1,
Samuel L. Jackson (who is often in leading roles or ensemble casts) at #2,
John Ratzenberger (a voice actor who mainly does supporting roles) at #3,
Bob Bergen (a voice actor who mainly does "additional voices") at #5, and
Warwick Davis (who mainly appears in supporting roles in live-action films) at #7. These are all completely different types of acting careers.
If this list cannot be used to meaningfully compare different actors' careers, then it is functionally just a mirror of the information at https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-star-records/worldwide/lifetime-acting/top-grossing-stars, the source for all this data (and I'm not sure if that's allowed by our copyright policy). Without any context to help interpret the data in a meaningful way, this is essentially just an WP:INDISCRIMINATE collection of WP:RAWDATA. In order to make it possible to meaningfully compare different actors' careers, the data would need to be curated in a way I don't think we can achieve without engaging in WP:Original research.
I don't think this is a fixable problem; it seems to me like a Garbage in, garbage out kind of deal. I would suggest scrapping the list entirely. TompaDompa ( talk) 11:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
What if we shortened the list and have separate lists
For example Fanoflionking 18:30, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I don't think we can achieve without engaging in WP:Original research.Can we? TompaDompa ( talk) 18:35, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
The number dose have pages for each of the lists above see below for the acting lists https://m.the-numbers.com/box-office-star-records/worldwide/lifetime-acting/ Surely there something we can produce Fanoflionking 18:45, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Just find a lists on there for Digital Animation Movie, Hand Animation, Stop-Motion Animation so it could be possible to produce a voice acting list by combining those list Fanoflionking 18:53, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I would suggest the following lists:
The problem with voice acting is that someone might be a voice actor in a live-action film (such as Frank Oz as Yoda in Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith or Bradley Cooper as Rocket Raccoon in the MCU), so it might not be possible to isolate the voice acting roles. TompaDompa ( talk) 19:05, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
I looked into it a bit, and no, we can't use the source tables like that. Specifically, I looked at Alan Tudyk's films. It breaks down thusly:
There are two problems that are immediately obvious here: For one, this list does not include his role as Iago in the 2019 Aladdin, which must mean that that role counts as one of his live-action roles (from what I can gather from other sources, this was voice acting only, though that could be wrong). More egregiously, this includes a role as Hot Rod in Transformers: The Last Knight, which according to other sources was not voiced by him but by Omar Sy. This throws the accuracy (and thus reliability) of the source into question. I also did the calculation for Scarlett Johansson:
This also sums to $1,797,826,392. This means her voice acting role in Her is counted as a live-action role. Maybe we'll have to scrap this after all. TompaDompa ( talk) 16:56, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
This first chart is leads in an animated feature films
Rank | Actor | Worldwide total [1] | Top-grossing film | Films | Average |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Steve Carell | $4,355,912,391 | Despicable Me 3 ($1,034,724,710) | 6 | $725,985,399 |
2 | Tom Hanks | $3,330,361,564 | Toy story 4 ($1,073,394,813) | 5 | $666,072,313 |
3 | Josh Gad | $3,219,752,644 | Frozen II ($1,448,203,157) | 4 | $804,938,161 |
4 | Denis Leary | $3,179,639,301 | Ice Age: Continental Drift ($879,765,137) | 5 | $635,927,860 |
6 | Ray Romano | $3,179,639,301 | 5 | $635,927,860 | |
7 | Tim Allen | $3,018,178,127 | Toy story 4 ($1,073,394,813) | 4 | $754,544,532 |
8 | Mike Myers | $2,991,173,233 | shrek 2 ($108,255,770) | $754,544,532 | |
9 | Eddie Murphy | ||||
10 | Cameron Diaz |
This second chart is a voice acting in feature films
Rank | Voice actor | Worldwide total [2] | Top-grossing film | Films | Average |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Frank Welker | $15,793,141,099 | Transformers: Dark of the Moon ($1,123,794,079) | 110 | $143,574,010 |
2 | John Ratzenberger | $15,268,166,395 | Incredibles 2 ($1,242,805,359) | 26 | $587,237,169 |
3 | Bob Bergen | $15,458,463,520 | Minions ($1,159,398,397) | 40 | $386,461,588 |
4 | Alan Tudyk | $12,146,623,828 | Frozen II ($1,448,800,077) | 14 | $867,615,987 |
5 | Jess Harnell | $9,992,358,235 | Minions ($1,159,398,397) | 21 | $475,826,583 |
6 | Jack Angel | $8,934,242,501 | Toy story 3 ($1,066,969,703) | 26 | $343,624,712 |
7 | Bill Farmer | $8,920,179,553 | ' Minions ($1,159,398,397) | 22 | $405,462,707 |
8 | Sherry Lynn | $8,919,390,247 | 25 | $356,775,610 | |
9 | Danny Mann | $8,341,145,950 | 17 | $490,655,644 | |
10 | Laraine Newman | $8,010,387,020 | 19 | $421,599,317 |
Thoughts Fanoflionking 15:36, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
I should of said to get info of the second chart a dive into each individual actors pages and added each voice acting gross Fanoflionking 15:49, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Ok so the second chart is OR what dose the first chart count as Fanoflionking 21:05, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
As you can see, this also sums up to $3,585,096,045. The Numbers counts Hanks' role in The Polar Express as a leading role in an animated film, but also as a live-action role. The more I look into their lists, the less reliable they seem for the purposes of this list. I don't think we can use The Numbers at all for this list, frankly. Their quality control is simply not up to snuff. TompaDompa ( talk) 22:24, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
References
Paul Bettany's highest grossing film is listed as Avengers: Endgame, however, he doesn't appear in that film at all. JDDJS ( talk to me • see what I've done) 15:31, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
Articles for which thorough attempts to find reliable sources to verify them have failed. TompaDompa ( talk) 16:04, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
This list seems to have a number of errors, however when a user tries to fix those errors it gets reverted because "that isn't what the source says" however that isn't a very good excuse if the source we are using for this is verifiably wrong. Hugo Weaving's highest grossing film is The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King at $1.142 billion and not Transformers: Dark of the Moon at $1.124 billion so that shouldn't be reverted back to what the Numbers source says since we have other sources that show that Hugo Weaving was in a higher grossing film. Paul Bettany was not in Avengers: Endgame (which you can see on his Wikipedia page and the Endgame page as well) and with that movie missing he would not make it in the top 20 of any of these lists. People who try to fix these errors shouldn't be reverted just because we have one source that is incorrect that the majority of this list is relying on. Chukulem ( talk) 21:09, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
Has Anyone Updated John Ratzenbergers box office count from "Soul"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spacecowasd ( talk • contribs) 06:36, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
I believe the article title needs to be "List of highest-grossing (Hollywood) actors". Otherwise, this is misleading and most probably highly inaccurate. Lipwe ( talk) 08:07, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
It is listed that Samuel Jackson appeared in Avengers:Endgame as a Lead role.But based on the movie it is a cameo role. BlonkoRook ( talk) 11:32, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
How can we decide if an actor/actress is in a lead role? I mean what’s the deciding factor or criteria as this is Wikipedia, information should be backed by facts and undisputed factors. Akt 2000 ( talk) 07:26, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Rockchalk717: Would you care to explain why you don't believe the maintenance templates you removed apply? TompaDompa ( talk) 00:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
@ The Transhumanist: The source ( https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-star-records/worldwide/lifetime-acting/top-grossing-stars) appears to be wrong. We don't disagree there—I have listed numerous apparent errors here on the talk page and tagged them in the article itself. The problem is that we can't "fix" the list by correcting its errors without engaging in WP:Original research. We can have a list that is consistent with the source—and wrong—or we can have a list that is based on WP:Original research. Obviously neither option is satisfactory, but the latter is prohibited by policy. TompaDompa ( talk) 09:21, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
Why is it necessary to decide on all the errors before making any edits to fix them?It's a ranked list. The positions matter. Fixing errors would mean adjusting ranks. If we don't have a consistent approach, we end up with a WP:SYNTH mess.
"The list needs to be updated in its entirety all at once" is unjustifiedIt's a ranked list. Surely you understand that if we update some of the entries but not the rest, we are misrepresenting the cited source? We can't give the gross for actor X as of 2023, actor Y as of 2017, and actor Z as of 2011 if their grosses have changed in the meantime. The list also has a "The list is updated as of [date]" note at the top to inform the reader of how up-to-date (or out-of-date) the list is. TompaDompa ( talk) 16:49, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
I've removed the Paul Bettany entry. — The Transhumanist 06:35, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
I know that the source excludes Avengers: Endgame from his roster (for some unknown reason) but, that's his highest-grossing movie regardless of him not being credited as a lead actor due to the circumstances of the previous movie. Saying that Avengers: Infinity War is his highest-grossing movie is somewhat misleading, especially due to the same circumstances of Infinity War being the reason why Benedict Cumberbatch and Chris Pratt aren't credited as lead actors in Endgame, despite Endgame being listed as their highest-grossing movie. 4TheLuvOfFax ( talk) 15:13, 1 September 2023 (UTC)