This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of folk metal bands article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | List of folk metal bands is a former featured list candidate. Please view the link under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. Once the objections have been addressed you may resubmit the article for featured list status. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured list candidate |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
|
![]() | This subarticle is kept separate from the main article, Folk metal, due to size or style considerations. |
I removed Bathory and Borknagar, both have more Black/Viking elements and absolutely no folk. Darksteel 13:38, 22 August 2006 (UTC) Plus Ancient Rites. Darksteel 10:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC) And Isengard. The swedish band is Power metal, the norwegian Black Metal. Darksteel 10:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
I question the inclusion of Viking Metal within the folk metal list. I realize that viking metal appeals to a certain type of folk-ish crowd, but is it really folk itself? Or, alternatively, is the difference small enough to allow its inclusion? JRDarby 16:59, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Should Orphaned Land be in there? Although they don't have any Celtic or Viking influences, they do have middle-eastern folk influence. Just wondering. ZOUAVMAN LE ZOUAVE 12:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Would anyone object if I take out the country names in ( )? The List of power metal bands, List of progressive metal artists, and others just have the country flags, and I think it looks much less cluttered that way. Gueneverey 03:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Just to remind people that unless a reason other than "I think it looks better", including flagicons in this list contravenes WP:FLAG as discussed here. Blackmetalbaz ( talk) 11:06, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
I thought the article looked odd without a flag icon next to Waylander when every other band has one. I erroneously assumed that was a mere oversight by past editors. I was not aware that there's an issue with the Northern Ireland flag until I noticed that JRDarby removed the flag icon. So if the Ulster Banner cannot be used, should the Union Jack flag be used instead? Or is Waylander forever going to be without flag in this list. Would it make a difference if the band has a preference? Just wondering. -- Bardin ( talk) 04:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I'd love to see the list expanded to include more folk metal bands. There are already some names on the list that I'm not familiar with and I took the opportunity to find out more about them with the hope that I can eventually add them to my collection of folk metal music. Of the bands that I looked up today, I found that three of them were not really folk metal bands. Or more precisely, that there's a lack of evidence that they are folk metal bands. Namely, Negura Bunget, Hate Forest and Drudkh. All three of them are black metal bands and are identified as such online. There's little that I can find that describes them any of these three bands as folk metal and what I did found consisted of either chatter on forums or fan reviews. These are obviously not reliable sources. You can find many other bands being described as one thing or another by fans on messageboards. Most of the time though, the bands are just described as black metal with hardly any mention of the word folk. Now I cannot say that I am familiar with the music of these bands though I've heard a few songs from myspace pages made by fans. If somebody really wish to insist that these bands are folk metal, then I'd like to see some evidence in the form of a professional review (like All Music Guide) or a self-identification by the band as folk metal in an interview or on their website. Negura Bunget's website identifies themselves as black metal with no mention that I could find of folk metal. Neither Hate Forest or Drudkh have an official website that I could find. I would also like to see more than one evidence, if that's possible. After all, even professional reviewers are human and prone to error. The more professional reviewers there are that identifies a band as folk metal, the more likely it is that they are not making a mistake.
Some of the other obscure bands that I looked up today passed this test so of course, they remain in the list even though I haven't heard their music (I would like to though). The Metal Archives is a good indicator but it's not perfect. Wintersun is not listed there as folk metal but an online search indicates that they are a folk metal band. The Metal Archives does not identify Negura Bunget, Hate Forest or Drudkh as folk metal. I suspect black metal bands might be more easily confused as folk metal bands because a lot of black metal bands do feature atmospheric and acoustic passages in their music. Couple that with pagan or heathen lyrics and it's understandable why some people might mistake them as folk metal. -- Bardin ( talk) 06:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I raised this issue at the reliable sources noticeboard and it's been archived here. I was told that reliable sources can make mistakes and we should use our editorial judgment. The New York Times article being used to support Ulver is full of mistakes, inventing non-existent neologism ("trench metal", "new york squatter metal", "extreme ambient", "machine assisted metal", "turncoat metal"), mixing up genres (sludge/stoner, black ambient/darkwave), and misidentifying bands (Pantera/Sepultura/Brutal Truth/Kreator as power metal), etc. If Ulver and Einherjer are really folk metal, surely there would be other multiple sources saying as much and we won't have to use this error-filled NYT article at all. -- Anarchodin ( talk) 05:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, regardless of whether I think Ulver or any band in this list plays folk metal, I believe that once another editor in good faith, questions the credibility of a source, other reliable sources should be sought and cited if they exist. So Ulver shouldn't be re-added to the list unless other reliable sources are cited as well.-- Nova Weaver ( talk) 22:44, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
List of folk metal bands. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:54, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on List of folk metal bands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:15, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 15 external links on List of folk metal bands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=46636When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:50, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on List of folk metal bands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:00, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on List of folk metal bands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:27, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of folk metal bands article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | List of folk metal bands is a former featured list candidate. Please view the link under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. Once the objections have been addressed you may resubmit the article for featured list status. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured list candidate |
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
|
![]() | This subarticle is kept separate from the main article, Folk metal, due to size or style considerations. |
I removed Bathory and Borknagar, both have more Black/Viking elements and absolutely no folk. Darksteel 13:38, 22 August 2006 (UTC) Plus Ancient Rites. Darksteel 10:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC) And Isengard. The swedish band is Power metal, the norwegian Black Metal. Darksteel 10:49, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
I question the inclusion of Viking Metal within the folk metal list. I realize that viking metal appeals to a certain type of folk-ish crowd, but is it really folk itself? Or, alternatively, is the difference small enough to allow its inclusion? JRDarby 16:59, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Should Orphaned Land be in there? Although they don't have any Celtic or Viking influences, they do have middle-eastern folk influence. Just wondering. ZOUAVMAN LE ZOUAVE 12:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Would anyone object if I take out the country names in ( )? The List of power metal bands, List of progressive metal artists, and others just have the country flags, and I think it looks much less cluttered that way. Gueneverey 03:51, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Just to remind people that unless a reason other than "I think it looks better", including flagicons in this list contravenes WP:FLAG as discussed here. Blackmetalbaz ( talk) 11:06, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
I thought the article looked odd without a flag icon next to Waylander when every other band has one. I erroneously assumed that was a mere oversight by past editors. I was not aware that there's an issue with the Northern Ireland flag until I noticed that JRDarby removed the flag icon. So if the Ulster Banner cannot be used, should the Union Jack flag be used instead? Or is Waylander forever going to be without flag in this list. Would it make a difference if the band has a preference? Just wondering. -- Bardin ( talk) 04:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I'd love to see the list expanded to include more folk metal bands. There are already some names on the list that I'm not familiar with and I took the opportunity to find out more about them with the hope that I can eventually add them to my collection of folk metal music. Of the bands that I looked up today, I found that three of them were not really folk metal bands. Or more precisely, that there's a lack of evidence that they are folk metal bands. Namely, Negura Bunget, Hate Forest and Drudkh. All three of them are black metal bands and are identified as such online. There's little that I can find that describes them any of these three bands as folk metal and what I did found consisted of either chatter on forums or fan reviews. These are obviously not reliable sources. You can find many other bands being described as one thing or another by fans on messageboards. Most of the time though, the bands are just described as black metal with hardly any mention of the word folk. Now I cannot say that I am familiar with the music of these bands though I've heard a few songs from myspace pages made by fans. If somebody really wish to insist that these bands are folk metal, then I'd like to see some evidence in the form of a professional review (like All Music Guide) or a self-identification by the band as folk metal in an interview or on their website. Negura Bunget's website identifies themselves as black metal with no mention that I could find of folk metal. Neither Hate Forest or Drudkh have an official website that I could find. I would also like to see more than one evidence, if that's possible. After all, even professional reviewers are human and prone to error. The more professional reviewers there are that identifies a band as folk metal, the more likely it is that they are not making a mistake.
Some of the other obscure bands that I looked up today passed this test so of course, they remain in the list even though I haven't heard their music (I would like to though). The Metal Archives is a good indicator but it's not perfect. Wintersun is not listed there as folk metal but an online search indicates that they are a folk metal band. The Metal Archives does not identify Negura Bunget, Hate Forest or Drudkh as folk metal. I suspect black metal bands might be more easily confused as folk metal bands because a lot of black metal bands do feature atmospheric and acoustic passages in their music. Couple that with pagan or heathen lyrics and it's understandable why some people might mistake them as folk metal. -- Bardin ( talk) 06:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I raised this issue at the reliable sources noticeboard and it's been archived here. I was told that reliable sources can make mistakes and we should use our editorial judgment. The New York Times article being used to support Ulver is full of mistakes, inventing non-existent neologism ("trench metal", "new york squatter metal", "extreme ambient", "machine assisted metal", "turncoat metal"), mixing up genres (sludge/stoner, black ambient/darkwave), and misidentifying bands (Pantera/Sepultura/Brutal Truth/Kreator as power metal), etc. If Ulver and Einherjer are really folk metal, surely there would be other multiple sources saying as much and we won't have to use this error-filled NYT article at all. -- Anarchodin ( talk) 05:28, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, regardless of whether I think Ulver or any band in this list plays folk metal, I believe that once another editor in good faith, questions the credibility of a source, other reliable sources should be sought and cited if they exist. So Ulver shouldn't be re-added to the list unless other reliable sources are cited as well.-- Nova Weaver ( talk) 22:44, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 2 external links on
List of folk metal bands. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:54, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on List of folk metal bands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:15, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 15 external links on List of folk metal bands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=46636When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:50, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on List of folk metal bands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:00, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on List of folk metal bands. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:27, 12 January 2018 (UTC)