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This list was created from articles that were in Category:Female chess players which was listed on WP:CFD. The consensus was to place the articles in a list and delete the category. See discussion. RedWolf 01:24, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)
You removed the chess player category for Gresser. I thought the female chess player category was always used in parallel with the chess player category. That's the way for all others.--Sonjaaa 02:08, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
Let's keep the category as is. As has been mentioned above, there's few female chess players, so it will aid people searching for these people. There's no great need to remove this category. Dysprosia 04:07, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 17:43, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Susan Polgar is regarded as the first woman to achieve the GM title in the traditional way, while Gaprindashvili and Chiburdanidze won their title by winning the Women's World Championship (WCC), according to this source, on which the list of female GM is primarly based. But looking carefully, this is actually quite nonsense: Gaprindashvili lost her world title in 1978! (I corrected the way she get the GM title, according to the info in her page) And I read somewhere that in the past the winner of the WWC got the "male" IM title and I strongly suspect that the practice of awarding the Women's World Champion the GM title started with the KO championships. Xie Jun, according to OlimpBase, appeared in the FIDE rating list as an IM in 1992 and a GM for the first time in 1993 — and not 1995 as the abovementioned source claims (this should tell you how reliable actually it is...) — so 2 years after she won the WWC! Maybe Chiburdanidze is actually the first woman who earned the GM title in the traditional way, because I find rather odd that FIDE awards her the GM title at her third (!) WWC match victory, but awards "only" the IM title to Xie Jun. Sophia91 ( talk) 06:16, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
We can discuss what we mean by the "traditional" way, but Susan Polgar was the first to achieve the title by the normal route in straight competition with men. PatGallacher ( talk) 17:54, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:57, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
I removed this comment from the article again:
This requires a reference to show that it is relevant in this context. Without a such a reference it falls afoul of WP:NOR, WP:SYNTH, WP:NPOV and WP:UNDUE. Articles can't "note" such things in an encyclopedic editorial voice without a citation. If someone has actually noted this, it can be cited and the article and specifically ascribed to that person: "So-and-so has noted that ..." Quale ( talk) 04:21, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
Reading this in 2020, let us simply conclude a grandmaster is a grandmaster. If individuals want to cast shade on how others gained their GM titles, let them. That sounds more like slander than encyclopedic quality content. Now I'll have to reread the article to weed out any ideas "my GM title is worth more than your GM title". CapnZapp ( talk) 11:26, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
I propose to delete the columns "Earned" and "Peak rating". The vast majority earned the title by scoring norms+2500 rating, as to those who earned by winning the Women's World Championship or through "special ways", "WWC" and "special" can be added to the "Notes" column (currently empty apart from 3 players). The peak rating requires frequent updates, and anyway the peak rating of each player if just one click away. Sophia91 ( talk) 13:44, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Okay, so we should probably stop talking about "current" grandmasters.
Even after one has died, we should definitively still list her. And some are retired.
CapnZapp ( talk) 15:57, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
I guess that since it's a major US holiday, in the middle of a huge pandemic, people are sitting at home with time on their hands and nothing to do but make random edits to Wikipedia.
Since the title of the article is "List of female chess players", anything important in it that isn't a list of female chess players is misplaced -- readers will not find it. If Wikipedia needs a "Timeline of women in chess", or a "History of women in chess", the right thing to do is to create an article by that name, not hide the material in an article by another name.
I am inclined to just blow away the whole "Timeline", but I will pause for a while, to enable other editors to make helpful suggestions. Bruce leverett ( talk) 03:33, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
I rather miss this. Having it at the head of this article seemed like a bit of harmless fun. I will restore it, but will abide by consensus, if it goes the other way. Bruce leverett ( talk) 01:36, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
@ Sportsfan77777:Thanks for suggesting that this should be discussed on the talk page.
There are three lists here, not just one, and before each list, there is a short explanation of its scope and other issues. Prior to the first list, the short explanation is, "This article lists female chess players that received official FIDE titles or are otherwise renowned." The three short explanations together constitute the introduction as specified by MOS:LISTINTRO.
Through late November of 2020, the lead section of this list consisted of that single sentence, followed by a short section entitled "History of Women playing chess". That short section was extraneous, inasmuch as the title of the article did not suggest any connection with the history of women in chess, and the content of that section did little or nothing to augment the list. I would not presume to say why this extraneous material was tolerated, but simple neglect may have played a role.
Two things happened after late November of 2020: some editors greatly enlarged the extraneous section; and another editor created a new article, "Women in chess". The new article did not initially include any material on the history of women in chess, but I propose that it would be quite logical and reasonable to put historical material in the new article. I note, however, that historical material in the new article would not necessarily be copied from the history section of this article, but would be integrated seamlessly into the new article.
I do not think the present, enlarged, history section of this article is anything to write home about, but one could consider keeping it in place until more historical material is added to the new article, if that does not cause even worse problems. Bruce leverett ( talk) 04:39, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
I see no reason to manually maintain a list when Wikipedia categorization does that for us automatically.
Not only do we avoid the inevitable omissions (making the list kind of useless), we can also enable the Table of Contents without it getting bloated by all the letters of the alphabet.
CapnZapp ( talk) 12:45, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
Regards, CapnZapp ( talk) 09:55, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
see the subject Thewriter006 ( talk) 02:35, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Another editor has pointed out that Category:Chess woman grandmasters has many more links to articles about WGM's than this list, List of female chess players, has links to any women chess players at all. I suppose that means that this list is not being maintained as well as that category. What do you know. Bruce leverett ( talk) 04:27, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
I find it fairly easy to understand GM, IM, WGM, WIM, based on other info on this and other pages. But what is a WFM? Woman Female Master? Woman FIDE Master? I can think of nothing even slightly plausible that is not internally redundant. And it's also possible that non-chess-fan readers might stumble on WIM, for example. Ranger86 ( talk) 21:34, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
It's a pain to maintain and we already have Category:Female chess players with multiple subcategories (by nationality or FIDE title). The whole article looks redundant. MaxBrowne2 ( talk) 05:08, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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This list was created from articles that were in Category:Female chess players which was listed on WP:CFD. The consensus was to place the articles in a list and delete the category. See discussion. RedWolf 01:24, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)
You removed the chess player category for Gresser. I thought the female chess player category was always used in parallel with the chess player category. That's the way for all others.--Sonjaaa 02:08, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)
Let's keep the category as is. As has been mentioned above, there's few female chess players, so it will aid people searching for these people. There's no great need to remove this category. Dysprosia 04:07, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 17:43, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Susan Polgar is regarded as the first woman to achieve the GM title in the traditional way, while Gaprindashvili and Chiburdanidze won their title by winning the Women's World Championship (WCC), according to this source, on which the list of female GM is primarly based. But looking carefully, this is actually quite nonsense: Gaprindashvili lost her world title in 1978! (I corrected the way she get the GM title, according to the info in her page) And I read somewhere that in the past the winner of the WWC got the "male" IM title and I strongly suspect that the practice of awarding the Women's World Champion the GM title started with the KO championships. Xie Jun, according to OlimpBase, appeared in the FIDE rating list as an IM in 1992 and a GM for the first time in 1993 — and not 1995 as the abovementioned source claims (this should tell you how reliable actually it is...) — so 2 years after she won the WWC! Maybe Chiburdanidze is actually the first woman who earned the GM title in the traditional way, because I find rather odd that FIDE awards her the GM title at her third (!) WWC match victory, but awards "only" the IM title to Xie Jun. Sophia91 ( talk) 06:16, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
We can discuss what we mean by the "traditional" way, but Susan Polgar was the first to achieve the title by the normal route in straight competition with men. PatGallacher ( talk) 17:54, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:57, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
I removed this comment from the article again:
This requires a reference to show that it is relevant in this context. Without a such a reference it falls afoul of WP:NOR, WP:SYNTH, WP:NPOV and WP:UNDUE. Articles can't "note" such things in an encyclopedic editorial voice without a citation. If someone has actually noted this, it can be cited and the article and specifically ascribed to that person: "So-and-so has noted that ..." Quale ( talk) 04:21, 25 May 2017 (UTC)
Reading this in 2020, let us simply conclude a grandmaster is a grandmaster. If individuals want to cast shade on how others gained their GM titles, let them. That sounds more like slander than encyclopedic quality content. Now I'll have to reread the article to weed out any ideas "my GM title is worth more than your GM title". CapnZapp ( talk) 11:26, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
I propose to delete the columns "Earned" and "Peak rating". The vast majority earned the title by scoring norms+2500 rating, as to those who earned by winning the Women's World Championship or through "special ways", "WWC" and "special" can be added to the "Notes" column (currently empty apart from 3 players). The peak rating requires frequent updates, and anyway the peak rating of each player if just one click away. Sophia91 ( talk) 13:44, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Okay, so we should probably stop talking about "current" grandmasters.
Even after one has died, we should definitively still list her. And some are retired.
CapnZapp ( talk) 15:57, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
I guess that since it's a major US holiday, in the middle of a huge pandemic, people are sitting at home with time on their hands and nothing to do but make random edits to Wikipedia.
Since the title of the article is "List of female chess players", anything important in it that isn't a list of female chess players is misplaced -- readers will not find it. If Wikipedia needs a "Timeline of women in chess", or a "History of women in chess", the right thing to do is to create an article by that name, not hide the material in an article by another name.
I am inclined to just blow away the whole "Timeline", but I will pause for a while, to enable other editors to make helpful suggestions. Bruce leverett ( talk) 03:33, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
I rather miss this. Having it at the head of this article seemed like a bit of harmless fun. I will restore it, but will abide by consensus, if it goes the other way. Bruce leverett ( talk) 01:36, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
@ Sportsfan77777:Thanks for suggesting that this should be discussed on the talk page.
There are three lists here, not just one, and before each list, there is a short explanation of its scope and other issues. Prior to the first list, the short explanation is, "This article lists female chess players that received official FIDE titles or are otherwise renowned." The three short explanations together constitute the introduction as specified by MOS:LISTINTRO.
Through late November of 2020, the lead section of this list consisted of that single sentence, followed by a short section entitled "History of Women playing chess". That short section was extraneous, inasmuch as the title of the article did not suggest any connection with the history of women in chess, and the content of that section did little or nothing to augment the list. I would not presume to say why this extraneous material was tolerated, but simple neglect may have played a role.
Two things happened after late November of 2020: some editors greatly enlarged the extraneous section; and another editor created a new article, "Women in chess". The new article did not initially include any material on the history of women in chess, but I propose that it would be quite logical and reasonable to put historical material in the new article. I note, however, that historical material in the new article would not necessarily be copied from the history section of this article, but would be integrated seamlessly into the new article.
I do not think the present, enlarged, history section of this article is anything to write home about, but one could consider keeping it in place until more historical material is added to the new article, if that does not cause even worse problems. Bruce leverett ( talk) 04:39, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
I see no reason to manually maintain a list when Wikipedia categorization does that for us automatically.
Not only do we avoid the inevitable omissions (making the list kind of useless), we can also enable the Table of Contents without it getting bloated by all the letters of the alphabet.
CapnZapp ( talk) 12:45, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
Regards, CapnZapp ( talk) 09:55, 22 April 2021 (UTC)
see the subject Thewriter006 ( talk) 02:35, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Another editor has pointed out that Category:Chess woman grandmasters has many more links to articles about WGM's than this list, List of female chess players, has links to any women chess players at all. I suppose that means that this list is not being maintained as well as that category. What do you know. Bruce leverett ( talk) 04:27, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
I find it fairly easy to understand GM, IM, WGM, WIM, based on other info on this and other pages. But what is a WFM? Woman Female Master? Woman FIDE Master? I can think of nothing even slightly plausible that is not internally redundant. And it's also possible that non-chess-fan readers might stumble on WIM, for example. Ranger86 ( talk) 21:34, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
It's a pain to maintain and we already have Category:Female chess players with multiple subcategories (by nationality or FIDE title). The whole article looks redundant. MaxBrowne2 ( talk) 05:08, 4 August 2023 (UTC)