This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of coups and coup attempts since 2010 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Page views of this article over the last 90 days:
|
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
What's the standard for considering something a coup? Last June's removal of Paraguay's President Lugo has been widely characterized as a coup or a "technical coup". (I'm not really sure what is meant by "technical coup".) [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] And last December's ousting of four Honduran supreme court justices has also been widely referred to as a "technical coup". [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] -- Irn ( talk) 01:10, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
The recent rebel takeover of the CAR has been described by some as a coup, considering many of the rebel commanders were former military officers. Charles Essie ( talk) 18:43, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Dear wikipedians, I'm confused why the coups (successful or attempted) since 2010 have their own separate article, instead of being integrated in the existing
List of coups d'état and coup attempts. It confuses the reader, creates additional maintenance, and breaks the continuity of having a single, cohesive list. IMHO, the info in this article should be merged with the existing "List of coups d'état and coup attempts" in the corresponding subsection; and after that this (then redundant) article should be deleted.
Unless there are sound reasons not to, I'll do that in the next week or so. Regards,
DPdH (
talk) 15:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
Recently, there was an edit war about adding the 22 February 2014 removal of Ukrainian president Yanukovych from power as a coup. While the source provided in favour of the inclusion was unreliable (Russia Today, which in this case is not a third-party source), there are scholarly sources which describe the Ukrainian revolution as a coup: the coups database compiled by Jonathan Powell and Clayton Thyne lists it as a coup; Jay Ulfelder, who worked for the PITF, explains here why it meets the criteria for a coup, albeit a parliamentary (not a military) one, and Jonathan Powell does it here. The basic argument is that Yanukovich’s removal from power was unconstitutional, because he didn’t resign, nor he was impeached, as required by articles 108-111 of both 2010 and 2004 constitution. Besides, Prime Minister Arbuzov, and not Chairman of Parliament Turchynov, should have suceeded him according to article 112 of the 2010 constitution, which was the constitution in force since the law restoring the 2004 constitution wasn’t signed by the President. Therefore, I propose to add to the table the following entry:
Event | Date | Type | Country | Coup leader | Head of state/government | Notes |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2014 Ukrainian coup d'état | February 22 | Coup [1] [2] | Ukraine | Leader of biggest opposition party Arseniy Yatsenyuk | President Viktor Yanukovych | Parliamentary coup: the President, having fled the capital following violent protests, was unconstitutionally removed by parliament without a procedure of impeachment. [3] [4] Parliament also restored the 2004 constitution without presidential promulgation, so that Chairman of Parliament Turchynov – instead of Prime Minister Arbuzov – became acting President and Yatsenyuk was appointed Prime Minister. [5] |
Nykterinos ( talk) 12:17, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
References
"... coup experts..."?!!! I've never encountered any form of academic studies in 'coup expertise'. Political analysis has never claimed to have any 'objective' arena from which to decode a political position. Context is everything: your WP:OR is nothing short of posturing. Ulfelder is welcome to write whatever he believes (read as WP:POV), but it has absolutely nothing to do with how we use secondary resources for encyclopaedic titles or article content. You seem to have overlooked the fact that, should Yanukovych leave the Russian Federation, he will stand trial and be impeached for a list of charges larger than your imagination. If you're deluded enough to believe that there's some form of parallel between Yanukovych and Snowden, you're so far off the mark that you're not even in this universe, and are living in a utopian paradise where the RF is somehow synonymous with goodness, niceness, truth and justice as opposed to sheerly unabashed opportunism.
"... coup-installed governments...", I'm trying to figure out the parallel between (for example) Pinochet's puppet-government and what took place in Ukraine. Analysis of events would indicated that events in Ukraine were the antithesis of popular governments being overthrown via military intervention, and the instalment of a repressive US-backed military state. If it comes to that form of Hegelian algorithm being superimposed, the shoe fits the current 'governance' of Donbass.
SLAVA UKRAINA. I love and am proud of my Ukrainian roots. I do find it very offensive that you think I was only there to serve that purpose. I've been following talk pages and debates on other websites like that for days. Also you completely neglected the policy of assume good faith. Also you are being mean and attacking and making me (a new user feel uncomfortable). Also why are you § DDima so keen on attacking Endukiejunta? He has a point and evidence of all sorts. Western, Russian, independent, and scholarly. Also why did you make Aleksandr Grigoryev get into this? You purposefully went to his talk page and told him to help you attack Endukiejunta literally on his page. Saying that he was pushing a pro-Russian POV. So you went and got someone who literally has a anti-Russian (he has an anti-Putin poster on his user page) to help you. Seems like you are pushing a point with bias. SLAVA UKRAINA. ILoveUkrainianSvoboda ( talk) 22:01, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
My question is, that what in consensus?Most people here are agreeing, why can't we change this?Endukiejunta 18:19, 15 May 2015 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Endukiejunta (
talk •
contribs)
I made this point a few years back, but given the recent developments in Venezuela, I think it needs to be re-examined. Comparing the removal of President Lugo in Paraguay in 2012, the removal of four members of the Honduran Supreme Court in 2013, and the removal of Brazilian President Dilma last year with the Venezuelan Supreme Court's dissolving of the legislature this week, I don't see what sets Venezuela apart. In three of the four cases, you have one branch of government using constitutional means to usurp the power of another branch of government in a highly contentious anti-democratic move. And in the case of Honduras, you have two branches conspiring against the third in an extra-constitutional move. Venezuela has been gradually becoming increasingly authoritarian, and it is in the midst of a terrible economic crisis, so it fits the narrative better, plus the press in the US especially loves to demonize Venezuela. But none of that seems to make what just happened more of a coup than what happened in Paraguay in 2012, Honduras in 2013, or Brazil in 2016. Indeed if we're looking at the overall context, it should be noted that as a result of the coup against the Honduran Supreme Court, President Hernández is now up for re-election – the mere possibility of which resulted in the coup against Zelaya in 2009. -- Irn ( talk) 15:04, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
I don't get the colorcode used on this page. Is there any reason we're coloring everything in these blues shades? If using color, wouldn't it be better to at least have it useful, for example by have the lighter shade used for attempts, and the darker one for coup which were successful? -- Aréat ( talk) 06:29, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
For anyone interested in adding Bolivia, please consult the 2019 Bolivian political crisis talk page. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 12:28, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
I was looking for information when it was last time military ousted rightwing goverment/dictator but didn't find any details. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.240.171.81 ( talk) 16:54, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
For some reason this appears under Oceania instead of North America. I would appreciate it if someone could place this in the correct section. Calmecac5 ( talk) 19:24, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
It was basically a attempted coup. A leader rallied his supporters to try and tack over the main governing body
Should it be added to the list? Tunisian president Kaïs Saïed removed the governement, suspended the national assembly, nominated alone a new government and began governing by decrees. It's already been called a (self) coup. [12], [13], [14], [15], [16].-- Aréat ( talk) 09:59, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Bolivia was basically a Coup with a military junta announcing the newpresident. Likewisein Paraguay Lugo was deposed.Thislist seemsbiasedin describingsome"small scale mutinies" as "coup by some media" (Papua New Guinea) but not stuff which are prosecuted even legally as such right now.- -- 181.166.162.36 ( talk) 08:26, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
A Consensus Discussion about adding the phrase "attempted coup" is at the following => " Talk:List of coups and coup attempts#Concerns about "attempted coup"" - Thanks - Drbogdan ( talk) 20:31, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
An RFC has started related to this matter. See Talk:List of coups and coup attempts#RFC: How should we deal with alleged coups and alleged coup attempts?. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 04:49, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
No consensus have been reached on the many discussion pages about whether this is counted as a coup or not (though I think it is obvious if it is or not), therefore it should not be listed until a proper consensus is reached. 103.244.228.42 ( talk) 06:29, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
List of coups and coup attempts since 2010 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Page views of this article over the last 90 days:
|
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
What's the standard for considering something a coup? Last June's removal of Paraguay's President Lugo has been widely characterized as a coup or a "technical coup". (I'm not really sure what is meant by "technical coup".) [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] And last December's ousting of four Honduran supreme court justices has also been widely referred to as a "technical coup". [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] -- Irn ( talk) 01:10, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
The recent rebel takeover of the CAR has been described by some as a coup, considering many of the rebel commanders were former military officers. Charles Essie ( talk) 18:43, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Dear wikipedians, I'm confused why the coups (successful or attempted) since 2010 have their own separate article, instead of being integrated in the existing
List of coups d'état and coup attempts. It confuses the reader, creates additional maintenance, and breaks the continuity of having a single, cohesive list. IMHO, the info in this article should be merged with the existing "List of coups d'état and coup attempts" in the corresponding subsection; and after that this (then redundant) article should be deleted.
Unless there are sound reasons not to, I'll do that in the next week or so. Regards,
DPdH (
talk) 15:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
Recently, there was an edit war about adding the 22 February 2014 removal of Ukrainian president Yanukovych from power as a coup. While the source provided in favour of the inclusion was unreliable (Russia Today, which in this case is not a third-party source), there are scholarly sources which describe the Ukrainian revolution as a coup: the coups database compiled by Jonathan Powell and Clayton Thyne lists it as a coup; Jay Ulfelder, who worked for the PITF, explains here why it meets the criteria for a coup, albeit a parliamentary (not a military) one, and Jonathan Powell does it here. The basic argument is that Yanukovich’s removal from power was unconstitutional, because he didn’t resign, nor he was impeached, as required by articles 108-111 of both 2010 and 2004 constitution. Besides, Prime Minister Arbuzov, and not Chairman of Parliament Turchynov, should have suceeded him according to article 112 of the 2010 constitution, which was the constitution in force since the law restoring the 2004 constitution wasn’t signed by the President. Therefore, I propose to add to the table the following entry:
Event | Date | Type | Country | Coup leader | Head of state/government | Notes |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2014 Ukrainian coup d'état | February 22 | Coup [1] [2] | Ukraine | Leader of biggest opposition party Arseniy Yatsenyuk | President Viktor Yanukovych | Parliamentary coup: the President, having fled the capital following violent protests, was unconstitutionally removed by parliament without a procedure of impeachment. [3] [4] Parliament also restored the 2004 constitution without presidential promulgation, so that Chairman of Parliament Turchynov – instead of Prime Minister Arbuzov – became acting President and Yatsenyuk was appointed Prime Minister. [5] |
Nykterinos ( talk) 12:17, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
References
"... coup experts..."?!!! I've never encountered any form of academic studies in 'coup expertise'. Political analysis has never claimed to have any 'objective' arena from which to decode a political position. Context is everything: your WP:OR is nothing short of posturing. Ulfelder is welcome to write whatever he believes (read as WP:POV), but it has absolutely nothing to do with how we use secondary resources for encyclopaedic titles or article content. You seem to have overlooked the fact that, should Yanukovych leave the Russian Federation, he will stand trial and be impeached for a list of charges larger than your imagination. If you're deluded enough to believe that there's some form of parallel between Yanukovych and Snowden, you're so far off the mark that you're not even in this universe, and are living in a utopian paradise where the RF is somehow synonymous with goodness, niceness, truth and justice as opposed to sheerly unabashed opportunism.
"... coup-installed governments...", I'm trying to figure out the parallel between (for example) Pinochet's puppet-government and what took place in Ukraine. Analysis of events would indicated that events in Ukraine were the antithesis of popular governments being overthrown via military intervention, and the instalment of a repressive US-backed military state. If it comes to that form of Hegelian algorithm being superimposed, the shoe fits the current 'governance' of Donbass.
SLAVA UKRAINA. I love and am proud of my Ukrainian roots. I do find it very offensive that you think I was only there to serve that purpose. I've been following talk pages and debates on other websites like that for days. Also you completely neglected the policy of assume good faith. Also you are being mean and attacking and making me (a new user feel uncomfortable). Also why are you § DDima so keen on attacking Endukiejunta? He has a point and evidence of all sorts. Western, Russian, independent, and scholarly. Also why did you make Aleksandr Grigoryev get into this? You purposefully went to his talk page and told him to help you attack Endukiejunta literally on his page. Saying that he was pushing a pro-Russian POV. So you went and got someone who literally has a anti-Russian (he has an anti-Putin poster on his user page) to help you. Seems like you are pushing a point with bias. SLAVA UKRAINA. ILoveUkrainianSvoboda ( talk) 22:01, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
My question is, that what in consensus?Most people here are agreeing, why can't we change this?Endukiejunta 18:19, 15 May 2015 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Endukiejunta (
talk •
contribs)
I made this point a few years back, but given the recent developments in Venezuela, I think it needs to be re-examined. Comparing the removal of President Lugo in Paraguay in 2012, the removal of four members of the Honduran Supreme Court in 2013, and the removal of Brazilian President Dilma last year with the Venezuelan Supreme Court's dissolving of the legislature this week, I don't see what sets Venezuela apart. In three of the four cases, you have one branch of government using constitutional means to usurp the power of another branch of government in a highly contentious anti-democratic move. And in the case of Honduras, you have two branches conspiring against the third in an extra-constitutional move. Venezuela has been gradually becoming increasingly authoritarian, and it is in the midst of a terrible economic crisis, so it fits the narrative better, plus the press in the US especially loves to demonize Venezuela. But none of that seems to make what just happened more of a coup than what happened in Paraguay in 2012, Honduras in 2013, or Brazil in 2016. Indeed if we're looking at the overall context, it should be noted that as a result of the coup against the Honduran Supreme Court, President Hernández is now up for re-election – the mere possibility of which resulted in the coup against Zelaya in 2009. -- Irn ( talk) 15:04, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
I don't get the colorcode used on this page. Is there any reason we're coloring everything in these blues shades? If using color, wouldn't it be better to at least have it useful, for example by have the lighter shade used for attempts, and the darker one for coup which were successful? -- Aréat ( talk) 06:29, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
For anyone interested in adding Bolivia, please consult the 2019 Bolivian political crisis talk page. -- Jamez42 ( talk) 12:28, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
I was looking for information when it was last time military ousted rightwing goverment/dictator but didn't find any details. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.240.171.81 ( talk) 16:54, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
For some reason this appears under Oceania instead of North America. I would appreciate it if someone could place this in the correct section. Calmecac5 ( talk) 19:24, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
It was basically a attempted coup. A leader rallied his supporters to try and tack over the main governing body
Should it be added to the list? Tunisian president Kaïs Saïed removed the governement, suspended the national assembly, nominated alone a new government and began governing by decrees. It's already been called a (self) coup. [12], [13], [14], [15], [16].-- Aréat ( talk) 09:59, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
Bolivia was basically a Coup with a military junta announcing the newpresident. Likewisein Paraguay Lugo was deposed.Thislist seemsbiasedin describingsome"small scale mutinies" as "coup by some media" (Papua New Guinea) but not stuff which are prosecuted even legally as such right now.- -- 181.166.162.36 ( talk) 08:26, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
A Consensus Discussion about adding the phrase "attempted coup" is at the following => " Talk:List of coups and coup attempts#Concerns about "attempted coup"" - Thanks - Drbogdan ( talk) 20:31, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
An RFC has started related to this matter. See Talk:List of coups and coup attempts#RFC: How should we deal with alleged coups and alleged coup attempts?. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 04:49, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
No consensus have been reached on the many discussion pages about whether this is counted as a coup or not (though I think it is obvious if it is or not), therefore it should not be listed until a proper consensus is reached. 103.244.228.42 ( talk) 06:29, 5 March 2023 (UTC)