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Question: you mention political changes--are you intending to include these in this list as well? Such as Rhodesia, Holland...? Quill 23:09, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC) hii my name is renuka and i like to introduce me
"Serial commas, serial commas, parenthesizing, commas, commas". This is among the hardest-to-read list/table in WP. -- Menchi 00:29, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Pasquale 18:36, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I would have liked to add Etats-Unis (United States), but the box formatting is too complicated. I could not get it to work right. Could this article be done with no boxes. AlainV 05:23, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
what is the criteria for listing alternative names? There are so many languages that each entry would become unmanageable. -- Jia ng 20:49, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
If the intent is to translate it into as many languages as possible, then I can create a problem, first by copying China in world languages into this page. Why don't we just stick with primary/defacto/official languages? Anything else non-English is irrelevant here. -- Jia ng 16:23, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The languages should be limited primary/defacto/official languages for each country. In addition, variants (official or otherwise) should be listed after the common name. Eg, "America" and "United States of America" would be both listed after "United States". How "United States" is spelled in Greek should not be listed here. -- Jia ng 07:29, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The page was created to avoid expanding List of European cities with alternative names to include country names. It does not really have a point if only English is to be used. If length is a problem, just link to separate pages for countries such as China, and possibly split the article into one per continent, each of those articles having a different version for European languages, Asian, etc.
It's entirely permissable to have foreign languages in an English encyclopaedia for the sake of reference, it's only if actual content was written in another language that there would be a problem. There seems to be a growing contingent of "English purists" on Wikipedia - it's a really quite unnecessary crusade. Zoney 18:53, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Splitting it would be an improvement, IMO. We should keep it to one line per country for the former (e.g. "America" and "United States of America" listed on the same line under "United States" and "Dominion of Canada" listed after "Canada"). That is, this listing is not just about translations, but actual alternatuve country names in the same language. For the first column, we go by the location of the wikipedia article. -- Jia ng 19:41, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I come late to this "discussion" which, in addition to Jia ng, has featured only two other people: Halibutt, the creator of the page, and Zoney, one of its major contributors. I respect the opinions expressed, but I have to say that IMO Jiang failed to understand the value and purpose of the article. He says: What is the relevance of how China is referred to in Greece? That is precisely the point of this article. It is of very great interest, for example, that Germany is called "Vokietija" in Lithuanian or that the old Polish name of Austria is "Rakusza", etc. etc. On the contrary, it is what Jiang wants to do (and has done by highjacking this page) that is of little interest and does not particularly require a list. Who needs a list that says "America" = "USA", "Great Britain" = "UK", and so on and so forth? That kind of information is best treated as part of individual articles, or by redirecting one entry to another. But Jiang tells me that a decision (i.e. his) has been arrived at by consensus and he simply implemented it. Fine, that means we'll continue working on the List of country names in various languages, as the joint effort has now been renamed by Jiang, and he can have his list of doublets, now that he's highjacked the List of alternative country names. He wants to list Canada's name in both of its official languages, i.e. "Canada" = "Canada". Very useful!
Pasquale 23:33, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
N.B. Σκόπια (Skópia) is the city, Σκοπία (Skopía) is the country. -- Picapica 10:37, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I changed Cyrillic transliteration to ISO-9:1995 standard. I hope this makes text look more uniform.-- Kulkuri 16:18, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
True or false: the rows for "United States" and "United States of America" should be merged into a single row. 66.245.18.193 15:06, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Pasquale 15:34, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Pasquale 18:00, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
There was mistake in article pl:Afryka (I fixed it). There is stub article about mentioned country (I didn't write it) pl:Republika Zielonego Przylądka. To find cap named Cabo Verde see: Cap-Vert, Geography of Africa. In polish there are three different names:
I'm shure what im doing. I'm Polish native speaker. Sorry if I made mistakes in english. radomil 16:33, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
There is nothing specific to Polish about the above distinctions. Exactly the same would be true for every single other language, so technically "Republic of" should be added to all. Right now, Polish stands out as the only language that underscores the above distinction. But so be it, if it makes you happy. (No one is doubting your competence as a Polish native speaker, but that's not the issue. The issue is rather if "Republic of" should be added to ALL languages or not.)
Pasquale 18:36, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Mayby but, in english You use french name for cap and portugal for country. In polish it is so important like in English: "Washington" -in this form You don't know if it's state or city. Moreover , in Polish "Zielony Przylądek" is name RESERVED for cap. That's why it is so important. Mayby about other languages should speak their native users? radomil 18:51, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The difference is that we don't have an exact equivalent of Cabo Verde in Polish. It's either the Wyspy Zielonego Przylądka (archipelago) or Republika Zielonego Przylądka (state). Perhaps the earlier would be a better choice here..? [[User:Halibutt| Halibu tt]] 19:04, Sep 2, 2004 (UTC)
Your right. We don't have en exact equivalent. That's why for the country only good name is a full name with - "Republika". On all Polish maps You have name "Republika Zielonego Przylądka", isn't it? radomil 19:14, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I think Halibutt is right. Wyspy Zielonego Przylądka is more appropriate here than Republika Zielonego Przylądka. If we start adding "Republic" here, then we should have it for every republic. Shall we have Rzeczpospolita Polska as the Polish name for the country of Poland? I don't think so. Shall we have République Française as the French name for the country of France? I don't think so. Pasquale 20:40, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I wont't argue. Of course there are maps with name Wyspy Zielonego Przylądka like there are maps with Cejlon ( Ceylon) because these are names of geographical structures. States are named Republika Zielonego Przylądka and Sri Lanka. Because poeple usualy don't see the diffrences you can change Republika on Wyspy. Shortly: Republika - if You want to be purist, Wyspy - if not, but never simply Zielony Przylądek - because on in Polish it is a place in Senegal.
Of course in Poland we use names Francja and Polska but there's no such name for Cabo Verde. Do You see a difference now? radomil 04:58, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Pasquale 16:18, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
OK, thats acceptable version. Perhaps (if You say so) in others languages there is no difference between archipelago country and cap in Senegal (that one, which You said that don't exist). If You say that English is exeption why You can't accept that Polish is also. In Wikipedia should be TRUE information, not information that is convergent with your opinions. radomil 16:52, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm sorry for my English (again). "Wyspy Świętego Tomasza i Książęca" is OK, but if You want full Polish name here You are: Republika Wysp Świętego Tomasza i Książęcej or even Demokratyczna Republika Wysp Świętego Tomasza i Książęcej but shortly Wyspy Świętego Tomasza i Książęca (not Świętego Tomasza i Książęca) radomil 20:48, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Of course there are texts with Zielony Przylądek as the name of country, but mainly these are translations from english with english influences or travell offices katalogs. In geographical Polish texts You have to add somthing before Zielony - Republika or Wyspy, if not this is a mistake (not serious, but mistake). See for example maps of africa in Polish (only two that I could find in internet):
Could I lobby for a column for the official name the country identifies itself as? This could be a separate page, but putting it on this page would be more informative.-- iFaqeer 01:40, Sep 24, 2004 (UTC)
I don't know who did the translation to Belarusian language, but I read first 10-12 countries names, and they are all wrong.
Virtually 99% of them are wrong! -- rydel 18:24, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
At Myanmar there's a lengthy discussion about whether Burma should redirect to Myanmar (the way it is now) or Myanmar to Burma, or some other variation. I don't want to start that whole argument again, but I would like to point out that the instructions for this page say that the most commonly used English name for a country is used, rather than the name that is considered "correct". Bearing that in mind, I humbly submit that we move the "Myanmar" entry on this page to "Burma", because "Burma" is still much more commonly used in English than Myanmar. I've already added a line for "Burma" saying "see Myanmar", but if nobody objects I'd rather have the information listed at "Burma" instead.
While we're at it, I think the "most commonly used name" criterion should apply to other languages as well. For example, in the above discussion about what to call Cape Verde in Polish, the criterion should not be what Polish maps say, or what the Cape Verdean embassy in Warsaw calls itself, but rather what the average Pole says when he mentions to a friend, "I'm going to Cape Verde on my holiday next winter."
Nevertheless implementing the "most commonly used" criterion too rigidly could result in mistranslations. For example, probably the most commonly used name for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in English is "the U.K.", but in German it's "Großbritannien" or even "England". (German friends thought it was ridiculously pedantic of me to correct them when they asked me how my trip to "England" was when I got back from Edinburgh.) But obviously this article shouldn't pretend that the German name for "United Kingdom" is "Großbritannien" or "England", and it's beyond the scope of this article to point out that "Vereinigtes Königreich" sounds like officialese in German even though "United Kingdom" or its abbreviation "U.K." sounds quite normal in English. -- Angr 21:54, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This list is quite interesting, maybe even useful.
One problem as I see it is the presence of non-Roman scripts like Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, Korean and Japanese (not to mention Indian languages, Thai, etc.). The problem is not very acute yet because many of these languages have yet to be added.
But when they are, we will have a jumble of scripts that no single person can read in its entirety. Now, in one sense the list is primarily a reference from which the user can pick the languages he/she needs. A speaker of Chinese would have no problem with Chinese characters, an Arabic-speaker with Arabic script, etc. . On the other hand, meaningless and indecipherable scripts are not of great value to the casual visitor who may be interested in seeing what a country is called in other languages. So the practice of adding Romanisation should really be adopted (as many have done already).
However, implementing this could end up causing a lot of complexity and confusion. I suggest that a standard format might be useful. That would make it easier to wade through the resulting mixture of exotic scripts and romanisation. An example might be: ベトナム =Betonamu (Japanese), 越南 =Etsunan (historic/academic Japanese), 越南 =Yuènán (Chinese). Or we could follow the usage that is already partly followed by some: Betonamu - ベトナム (Japanese), Etsunan - 越南 (historic/academic Japanese), Yuènán - 越南 (Chinese). There is a difference of order here (Romanisation first, native script second or native script first, Romanisation second) as well as a choice of links (hyphen, equal sign, or maybe nothing at all). What do others think? Bathrobe 05:00, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
I was just revising my original note when you added your comment! OK, we can go with the current de facto system. It's probably cleaner and easier to understand than using equal signs or just leaving a space. I look forward to seeing your suggestion. For Chinese, pinyin is now pretty well accepted so there is no problem. For Japanese I might suggest Hepburn, with macrons (ō, not ou). For Thai, Korean, Arabic, etc., I guess there may be problems. Bathrobe 07:02, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
I've fixed up Afghanistan by adding Chinese romanisation as well as Japanese. I presume this is what you had in mind. (I can't do anything with the Indian languages). Bathrobe 07:18, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Bathrobe, If you check the history, you will see that there was a standard format of Romanization - native script, as Angr has already pointed out (although I don't believe the wiki mdash was used). Unfortunately, the more recent additions ignore that format, just like they ignore alphabetization, as well as other formatting. I suggest we keep the same format, including using the italics for the native language, when possible, because it looks better that way, and just forget about the italics for Hebrew, Arabic, CJK, and the South Asian scripts. Pasquale 19:32, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
When I added and corrected Greek and Bulgarian names, I used these romanization systems:
Markussep 14:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I've added the {{ verylong}} template because the article is 145 kb long, which is about three times longer than a good Wikipedia article should be. I'd like to discuss possibilities for breaking it up. The most obvious solution to my mind is to break it up by letters of the alphabet, for example:
but I'm open to other suggestions. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 17:55, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Angr, you could also divide them by continents, e.g.:
or some such. Pasquale 00:16, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
That's also a possibility, but the way the list is now I suspect List of country names in various languages (Europe) would still be too long and List of country names in various languages (Africa) would be barely a stub. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 07:03, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Another argument against going by continent is that it will entail wrangling over countries like Russia, Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia, for which there will be arguments as to whether they should be in Europe or Asia. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 13:17, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Excellent points. Well, you're the Wikimaster, so you make the call. Pasquale 21:20, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, it's been five days and no one but Pasquale has said anything so I'm being bold. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 22:02, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
I have posted an extensive ex post-facto Explanation on Mikkalai's talk page, in case anyone's interested. Pasquale 20:56, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
I would like to know, how are foreign names, which include various diacritics, treated in English language lists? Here, at the List of country names in various languages, the alphabetical order of various language alternatives of the same name does not seem to follow any rule as far as the diacritics is concerned. What is the correct order eg. for Armenia, Armênia, Armènia, Arménia and Armenía? I know that other languages have their rules for treating foreign diacritics, does anybody know, how is this done in English? Jan.Kamenicek 11:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you very much for explanation. Do you know also the ordering of other diacritical marks, such as breve, caron, cedilla, ogonek and others? Jan.Kamenicek 20:28, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it is clear if we need to order words with and without diacritics. But sometimes we need to order words with different diacritics. Which goes first: Čína or Ċina (Czech and Maltese names for "China")? Jan.Kamenicek 08:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
A discussion has been started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries/Lists of countries which could affect the inclusion criteria and title of this and other lists of countries. Editors are invited to participate. Pfainuk talk 11:46, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
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Question: you mention political changes--are you intending to include these in this list as well? Such as Rhodesia, Holland...? Quill 23:09, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC) hii my name is renuka and i like to introduce me
"Serial commas, serial commas, parenthesizing, commas, commas". This is among the hardest-to-read list/table in WP. -- Menchi 00:29, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Pasquale 18:36, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I would have liked to add Etats-Unis (United States), but the box formatting is too complicated. I could not get it to work right. Could this article be done with no boxes. AlainV 05:23, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
what is the criteria for listing alternative names? There are so many languages that each entry would become unmanageable. -- Jia ng 20:49, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
If the intent is to translate it into as many languages as possible, then I can create a problem, first by copying China in world languages into this page. Why don't we just stick with primary/defacto/official languages? Anything else non-English is irrelevant here. -- Jia ng 16:23, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The languages should be limited primary/defacto/official languages for each country. In addition, variants (official or otherwise) should be listed after the common name. Eg, "America" and "United States of America" would be both listed after "United States". How "United States" is spelled in Greek should not be listed here. -- Jia ng 07:29, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The page was created to avoid expanding List of European cities with alternative names to include country names. It does not really have a point if only English is to be used. If length is a problem, just link to separate pages for countries such as China, and possibly split the article into one per continent, each of those articles having a different version for European languages, Asian, etc.
It's entirely permissable to have foreign languages in an English encyclopaedia for the sake of reference, it's only if actual content was written in another language that there would be a problem. There seems to be a growing contingent of "English purists" on Wikipedia - it's a really quite unnecessary crusade. Zoney 18:53, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Splitting it would be an improvement, IMO. We should keep it to one line per country for the former (e.g. "America" and "United States of America" listed on the same line under "United States" and "Dominion of Canada" listed after "Canada"). That is, this listing is not just about translations, but actual alternatuve country names in the same language. For the first column, we go by the location of the wikipedia article. -- Jia ng 19:41, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I come late to this "discussion" which, in addition to Jia ng, has featured only two other people: Halibutt, the creator of the page, and Zoney, one of its major contributors. I respect the opinions expressed, but I have to say that IMO Jiang failed to understand the value and purpose of the article. He says: What is the relevance of how China is referred to in Greece? That is precisely the point of this article. It is of very great interest, for example, that Germany is called "Vokietija" in Lithuanian or that the old Polish name of Austria is "Rakusza", etc. etc. On the contrary, it is what Jiang wants to do (and has done by highjacking this page) that is of little interest and does not particularly require a list. Who needs a list that says "America" = "USA", "Great Britain" = "UK", and so on and so forth? That kind of information is best treated as part of individual articles, or by redirecting one entry to another. But Jiang tells me that a decision (i.e. his) has been arrived at by consensus and he simply implemented it. Fine, that means we'll continue working on the List of country names in various languages, as the joint effort has now been renamed by Jiang, and he can have his list of doublets, now that he's highjacked the List of alternative country names. He wants to list Canada's name in both of its official languages, i.e. "Canada" = "Canada". Very useful!
Pasquale 23:33, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
N.B. Σκόπια (Skópia) is the city, Σκοπία (Skopía) is the country. -- Picapica 10:37, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I changed Cyrillic transliteration to ISO-9:1995 standard. I hope this makes text look more uniform.-- Kulkuri 16:18, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
True or false: the rows for "United States" and "United States of America" should be merged into a single row. 66.245.18.193 15:06, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Pasquale 15:34, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Pasquale 18:00, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
There was mistake in article pl:Afryka (I fixed it). There is stub article about mentioned country (I didn't write it) pl:Republika Zielonego Przylądka. To find cap named Cabo Verde see: Cap-Vert, Geography of Africa. In polish there are three different names:
I'm shure what im doing. I'm Polish native speaker. Sorry if I made mistakes in english. radomil 16:33, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
There is nothing specific to Polish about the above distinctions. Exactly the same would be true for every single other language, so technically "Republic of" should be added to all. Right now, Polish stands out as the only language that underscores the above distinction. But so be it, if it makes you happy. (No one is doubting your competence as a Polish native speaker, but that's not the issue. The issue is rather if "Republic of" should be added to ALL languages or not.)
Pasquale 18:36, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Mayby but, in english You use french name for cap and portugal for country. In polish it is so important like in English: "Washington" -in this form You don't know if it's state or city. Moreover , in Polish "Zielony Przylądek" is name RESERVED for cap. That's why it is so important. Mayby about other languages should speak their native users? radomil 18:51, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The difference is that we don't have an exact equivalent of Cabo Verde in Polish. It's either the Wyspy Zielonego Przylądka (archipelago) or Republika Zielonego Przylądka (state). Perhaps the earlier would be a better choice here..? [[User:Halibutt| Halibu tt]] 19:04, Sep 2, 2004 (UTC)
Your right. We don't have en exact equivalent. That's why for the country only good name is a full name with - "Republika". On all Polish maps You have name "Republika Zielonego Przylądka", isn't it? radomil 19:14, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I think Halibutt is right. Wyspy Zielonego Przylądka is more appropriate here than Republika Zielonego Przylądka. If we start adding "Republic" here, then we should have it for every republic. Shall we have Rzeczpospolita Polska as the Polish name for the country of Poland? I don't think so. Shall we have République Française as the French name for the country of France? I don't think so. Pasquale 20:40, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I wont't argue. Of course there are maps with name Wyspy Zielonego Przylądka like there are maps with Cejlon ( Ceylon) because these are names of geographical structures. States are named Republika Zielonego Przylądka and Sri Lanka. Because poeple usualy don't see the diffrences you can change Republika on Wyspy. Shortly: Republika - if You want to be purist, Wyspy - if not, but never simply Zielony Przylądek - because on in Polish it is a place in Senegal.
Of course in Poland we use names Francja and Polska but there's no such name for Cabo Verde. Do You see a difference now? radomil 04:58, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Pasquale 16:18, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
OK, thats acceptable version. Perhaps (if You say so) in others languages there is no difference between archipelago country and cap in Senegal (that one, which You said that don't exist). If You say that English is exeption why You can't accept that Polish is also. In Wikipedia should be TRUE information, not information that is convergent with your opinions. radomil 16:52, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm sorry for my English (again). "Wyspy Świętego Tomasza i Książęca" is OK, but if You want full Polish name here You are: Republika Wysp Świętego Tomasza i Książęcej or even Demokratyczna Republika Wysp Świętego Tomasza i Książęcej but shortly Wyspy Świętego Tomasza i Książęca (not Świętego Tomasza i Książęca) radomil 20:48, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Of course there are texts with Zielony Przylądek as the name of country, but mainly these are translations from english with english influences or travell offices katalogs. In geographical Polish texts You have to add somthing before Zielony - Republika or Wyspy, if not this is a mistake (not serious, but mistake). See for example maps of africa in Polish (only two that I could find in internet):
Could I lobby for a column for the official name the country identifies itself as? This could be a separate page, but putting it on this page would be more informative.-- iFaqeer 01:40, Sep 24, 2004 (UTC)
I don't know who did the translation to Belarusian language, but I read first 10-12 countries names, and they are all wrong.
Virtually 99% of them are wrong! -- rydel 18:24, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
At Myanmar there's a lengthy discussion about whether Burma should redirect to Myanmar (the way it is now) or Myanmar to Burma, or some other variation. I don't want to start that whole argument again, but I would like to point out that the instructions for this page say that the most commonly used English name for a country is used, rather than the name that is considered "correct". Bearing that in mind, I humbly submit that we move the "Myanmar" entry on this page to "Burma", because "Burma" is still much more commonly used in English than Myanmar. I've already added a line for "Burma" saying "see Myanmar", but if nobody objects I'd rather have the information listed at "Burma" instead.
While we're at it, I think the "most commonly used name" criterion should apply to other languages as well. For example, in the above discussion about what to call Cape Verde in Polish, the criterion should not be what Polish maps say, or what the Cape Verdean embassy in Warsaw calls itself, but rather what the average Pole says when he mentions to a friend, "I'm going to Cape Verde on my holiday next winter."
Nevertheless implementing the "most commonly used" criterion too rigidly could result in mistranslations. For example, probably the most commonly used name for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in English is "the U.K.", but in German it's "Großbritannien" or even "England". (German friends thought it was ridiculously pedantic of me to correct them when they asked me how my trip to "England" was when I got back from Edinburgh.) But obviously this article shouldn't pretend that the German name for "United Kingdom" is "Großbritannien" or "England", and it's beyond the scope of this article to point out that "Vereinigtes Königreich" sounds like officialese in German even though "United Kingdom" or its abbreviation "U.K." sounds quite normal in English. -- Angr 21:54, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This list is quite interesting, maybe even useful.
One problem as I see it is the presence of non-Roman scripts like Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, Korean and Japanese (not to mention Indian languages, Thai, etc.). The problem is not very acute yet because many of these languages have yet to be added.
But when they are, we will have a jumble of scripts that no single person can read in its entirety. Now, in one sense the list is primarily a reference from which the user can pick the languages he/she needs. A speaker of Chinese would have no problem with Chinese characters, an Arabic-speaker with Arabic script, etc. . On the other hand, meaningless and indecipherable scripts are not of great value to the casual visitor who may be interested in seeing what a country is called in other languages. So the practice of adding Romanisation should really be adopted (as many have done already).
However, implementing this could end up causing a lot of complexity and confusion. I suggest that a standard format might be useful. That would make it easier to wade through the resulting mixture of exotic scripts and romanisation. An example might be: ベトナム =Betonamu (Japanese), 越南 =Etsunan (historic/academic Japanese), 越南 =Yuènán (Chinese). Or we could follow the usage that is already partly followed by some: Betonamu - ベトナム (Japanese), Etsunan - 越南 (historic/academic Japanese), Yuènán - 越南 (Chinese). There is a difference of order here (Romanisation first, native script second or native script first, Romanisation second) as well as a choice of links (hyphen, equal sign, or maybe nothing at all). What do others think? Bathrobe 05:00, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
I was just revising my original note when you added your comment! OK, we can go with the current de facto system. It's probably cleaner and easier to understand than using equal signs or just leaving a space. I look forward to seeing your suggestion. For Chinese, pinyin is now pretty well accepted so there is no problem. For Japanese I might suggest Hepburn, with macrons (ō, not ou). For Thai, Korean, Arabic, etc., I guess there may be problems. Bathrobe 07:02, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
I've fixed up Afghanistan by adding Chinese romanisation as well as Japanese. I presume this is what you had in mind. (I can't do anything with the Indian languages). Bathrobe 07:18, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Hi Bathrobe, If you check the history, you will see that there was a standard format of Romanization - native script, as Angr has already pointed out (although I don't believe the wiki mdash was used). Unfortunately, the more recent additions ignore that format, just like they ignore alphabetization, as well as other formatting. I suggest we keep the same format, including using the italics for the native language, when possible, because it looks better that way, and just forget about the italics for Hebrew, Arabic, CJK, and the South Asian scripts. Pasquale 19:32, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
When I added and corrected Greek and Bulgarian names, I used these romanization systems:
Markussep 14:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I've added the {{ verylong}} template because the article is 145 kb long, which is about three times longer than a good Wikipedia article should be. I'd like to discuss possibilities for breaking it up. The most obvious solution to my mind is to break it up by letters of the alphabet, for example:
but I'm open to other suggestions. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 17:55, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
Angr, you could also divide them by continents, e.g.:
or some such. Pasquale 00:16, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
That's also a possibility, but the way the list is now I suspect List of country names in various languages (Europe) would still be too long and List of country names in various languages (Africa) would be barely a stub. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 07:03, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Another argument against going by continent is that it will entail wrangling over countries like Russia, Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia, for which there will be arguments as to whether they should be in Europe or Asia. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 13:17, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Excellent points. Well, you're the Wikimaster, so you make the call. Pasquale 21:20, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, it's been five days and no one but Pasquale has said anything so I'm being bold. -- Angr/ tɔk tə mi 22:02, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
I have posted an extensive ex post-facto Explanation on Mikkalai's talk page, in case anyone's interested. Pasquale 20:56, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
I would like to know, how are foreign names, which include various diacritics, treated in English language lists? Here, at the List of country names in various languages, the alphabetical order of various language alternatives of the same name does not seem to follow any rule as far as the diacritics is concerned. What is the correct order eg. for Armenia, Armênia, Armènia, Arménia and Armenía? I know that other languages have their rules for treating foreign diacritics, does anybody know, how is this done in English? Jan.Kamenicek 11:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you very much for explanation. Do you know also the ordering of other diacritical marks, such as breve, caron, cedilla, ogonek and others? Jan.Kamenicek 20:28, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it is clear if we need to order words with and without diacritics. But sometimes we need to order words with different diacritics. Which goes first: Čína or Ċina (Czech and Maltese names for "China")? Jan.Kamenicek 08:39, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
A discussion has been started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries/Lists of countries which could affect the inclusion criteria and title of this and other lists of countries. Editors are invited to participate. Pfainuk talk 11:46, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
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