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For the inclusion of sovereign states, see talk:list of sovereign states and for the inclusion of dependent territories the talk:list of dependent territories. We do not need a double discussion. So if a country is deleted from on of the other lists, this list follows.
This list includes the native names. I plan to delete these, since these are included in the list of sovereign states. Before I do that, I wait three days (1st of may I will start), to hear arguments. Electionworld 22:16, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
There are some mistakes on the list on which countries are considered federal. At first glance, Germany, the USA and Russia don't appear as federal states, while Spain does. I've always thought of Germany, the USA and Russia as the most obvious examples of federal states, and although Spain's autonomic system is virtually federal, it isn't officially so. I'm sure there must be other mistakes if even the USA isn't marked as federal, so it might come in handy if someone with a better knowledge of geography than me went through the list and made sure the rest are OK. However, this has brought up another question. Should we mark federal states as such? Is there a real reason for it? Because me might just as well mark democratic countries as democracies, and dictatorships as such. For the time being, I'm going to fix Spain, Germany, the USA and Russia.-- Daniel Medina 19:31, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I was one of the early advocates for moving away from a list purely of sovereign states to a more inclusive list. At the time I was a bit nervous that it would be difficult to draw the line, and we'd end up with a list consisting mainly of military bases. But my unspoken fears were unfounded. The line is drawn well, and it's gained widespread acceptance. The list is very authoritative, probably the most NPOV and authoritative list on the internet. I really like the annex idea. Those responsible deserve a pat on the back! Ben Arnold 00:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
This page is a politically correct attempt to placate and appease any and all. Don’t stop now 1 Increase the list by widening the net!
Does anyone know why most international lists of countries list overseas departments of France as seperate entities, but don't list Alaska and Hawaii?
The overseas departments of France are not listed. France has 4 overseas departments that are fully incorperated into the state just like Alaska or Hawaii. France also has 5 overseas territories that are basicly indepependent except for foreign policy like Puerto Rico or the US Virgin Islands. It's explained here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_overseas_departments_and_territories
Is there some kind of rule of thumb that federal countries can be non-contiguous, whereas non-contiguous parts of unitary states are regarded as separate territories?
Ben Arnold 00:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
I think it depends on the legal status of the entities. In some cases, the non-contiguous parts of non-federal states like Azores and Madeira Islands of Portugal and Canary Islands of Spain are not regarded as separate entities due to their sharing same legal status with other subnational units in those countries. Whereas in other cases the contiguous parts of non-federal states (like Hong Kong and Macau of the People's Republic of China) which have their own legal systems are listed separately. Concerning the French overseas departments, it is a bit ambiguous as some treat them as with same legal status as metropolitan departments while others don't. You may refer to the discussion below for details. -- DD Ting 10 November 2005, 09:45 (UTC)
Does something like this already exsists?(Anon)
I think that it would be very useful to set-up a country listing, downloadable in some format (CVS, XML, Excel), that holds some additional information for each country, such as:
- international short name - English (e.g. Germany) - international long name - English (e.g. Federal Republic of Germany) - international short name - French (e.g. Allemagne) - international long name - French (e.g. Républic Fédérale de l'Allemagne) - international name - .... other languages (--> perhaps the six official UN languages; thus Spanish, Chinese, Russian, Arabic) - local short name (e.g. Deutschland) - local long name (e.g. Bundesrepublik Deutschland) - official languages (e.g. German; for Switzerland: German, French, Italian) - Capital (e.g. Berlin) (local and international form) - eventually coordinates for drawing a rectangle that encompasses the country
Some of the information exists. But not all. With the help of all these Wikipedia users around the world it should be fairly easy to set-up such a list. There are some UN lists too (UN Statistical Divison, UN Cartographic Section, UNTERM), but none of them includes all proposed fields. A public "database" of this information would really be a great thing. Ok, there are some political sensitive issues to be aware of, but the list below shows that it is nevertheless possible to come up with something (fairly) complete. Luftikus143 13:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I hereby suggest that the prefix for airplane's registration-numbers in the country (eg. "LN" for Norway) - perhaps along with the nationa-emblem (eg. a circle with concentric red, white and blue circles for the USA), should be added in the Infobox.
I also suggest that the prefix used in the countries Amateur-Radio (HAM) call-signs to be added (eg. for Norway (AFAIK) LA, LB, LC and LØ (zero) - though I think all but LA and perhaps LØ are obsolete. We used to have LA for full, LB for limited and LC for technical license, and LØ used on Norwgian possessions(?) ) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.248.29.232 ( talk) 09:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC).
MOS states that 'If looking for a good rule of thumb, do not italicize words that appear in an English language dictionary.' This includes terms such as '
de facto' and '
de jure'.
P
æ
dia
22:00, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
The name "Czechia" was announced by the Czech Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1993 for use as the short form title of the Czech Republic. While it has not been so caught on in English usage, as it has already been stated in para 2 of the list that "The names are given in English and include both the short official names (e.g. Afghanistan) and the (longer) official name (e.g. The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan). The listing of any name in this article is not meant to imply an official position in any naming dispute.", no matter you like it or not, it's still much appropriate to put "Czechia" on the list as the official short form title of Czech Republic, just like Belarus vis-á-vis Byelorussia and Côte d'Ivoire vis-á-vis Ivory Coast. DD Ting 03:10, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
Let's promote the use of "Czechia" as a respect to the country and its people. DD Ting 03:21, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
Generally good list but I don't support the inclusion of the french DOMs. They are equal in status to the Metropolitan departments and as much a part of France as Hawaii is of the USA or Tasmania of Australia, and neither of those are on this list. - Randwicked 09:11, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC). I excluded the French departments from the future list above Electionworld 11:39, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
About French listed territories : France is divided into "collectivité territoriales", among them 4 "collectivités d'outre-mer" (overseas collectivities) (article #74 of French constitution) : French Polynesia, Mayotte, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Wallis and Futuna. Even if French Polynesia's own statutory law calls it a "pays d'outre-mer" (overseas country), it also refers to its constitutionnaly statute of overseas collectivity. So I think French Polynesia should be included into French overseas collectivities, not into French overseas countries. Note that the other overseas collectivities' statutory laws give each a particular name : Mayotte is a "collectivité départementale" (departemental collectivity), Saint Pierre and Miquelon a "collectivité territoriale" (territorial collectivity) and Wallis and Futuna a "territoire d'outre mer" (overseas territory). New Caledonia is not a "collectivité territoriale". It's unique statute has no name, that's why it is said to be sui generis. It's own laws are called "lois de pays" (country laws), so it could be called a "pays" (country). But collectivity, even sui generis, is not appropriate.
I would support the inclusion of the four French DOM. Eventhough they are equal in status to the Metropolitan departments (but so were the Algerian départements!), the continuing existence of the right of self-determination of their peoples in the framework of decolonization cannot be denied. France would contravene public international law by not granting them independence if a clear majority of the population were in favor. For other French départements or régions, e.g. Alsace or Brittany, this is not the case, since their populations do not have a right to self-determination under public international law, even though one might sympathize with the aspirations of an ancient Celtic people such as the Bretons. Hence, there is a clear difference between them and the DOM. This is also proven by the fact that changes in the status of the DOM are not unilaterally imposed by France, but subject to referenda in which only their inhabitants (and not those of metropolitan France) can participate. This led for instance to the separation of the "collectivités territoriales" Saint-Barthélémy and Saint-Martin from the DOM of Guadeloupe, which will take place in 2007. Hence the four DOM and in the near future the two new territorial collectivities should be included. MaartenVidal 16:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Technically the Netherlands is the European part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. The Netherlands ≠ the Kingdom of the Netherlands. — Insta ntnood 19:24, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)
To the best of my knowledge and from what I learned from the discussion in the List of sovereign states, I was given the impression that Sealand meets all criteria as a state as like other de facto independent states (e.g. Abkhazia). It has defined territory (550 sq m) and even territial waters (12nm). It has a functional government. It has a running economy ( HavenCo) and the staff working there and the Bate's family constitute permanent population of the state. It is out of the jurisdiction of any other sovereign states (e.g. UK). While it's an artifical island, the state was established long before the promulgation of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea in 1982 which thus has no legal effect on it. When the principality declared in 1967, it was outside the UK's territorial waters (3nm, not 12nm which was declared by the UK government in later years). While no sovereign states have ever established diplomatic relations with Sealand, the 1978 incident had indeed constituted de facto recognition of Sealand by Germany. So Sealand has already met the criteria of a state. As it is not recognized by any sovereign states in the world, it is appropriate to classify Sealand as de facto independent state. DD Ting 04:07, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
And by the way "Taiwan" is a conventional rather than official short form. — Insta ntnood 15:58, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)
Jiang deleted the sentence de facto sovereign state at Taiwan. Could he please argue why Taiwan should not considered to be a de facto sovereign state. Electionworld 11:12, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
Should Taiwan have a pointer at China? SchmuckyTheCat 09:22, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
There is no doubt that nowadays the ROC government is commonly regarded as Taiwan authorities instead of the government of China. However, legally speaking the ROC government has never formally denounced its claim over its former territories including Mainland China and Outer Mongolia. It's also worth noting that the ROC government has been in existence (without interruption) since 1912 when it was established in Nanjing, China, and among the states which still maintain diplomatic relations with ROC, some (e.g. Honduras, Paraguay) had established such relationship before the ROC government moved to Taiwan in 1949. For Holy See, it treats its diplomatic relation with ROC as with "China" as noted from its official website. So it is not factually wrong to put "China (ROC)" side-by-side with "China (PRC)" on the list. But to be accustomed to conventional wisdom, I think it's better maintaining status quo (i.e. "Taiwan (ROC") with a note at "China (PRC)" (i.e. "(see also Taiwan (ROC))"). DD Ting 02:57, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
Let's be consequent. Generally in Wikipedia the entries regarding the (politics of etc. the ) state are named Republic of China etc.. Taiwan is used for the island or a redirect follows. Electionworld 08:13, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
Yesterday I severely shortened the essay after the Taiwan entry. This is a simple list and we should avoid having huge paragraph long essays about political status on any country/territory here. We need one link here to the issue with the PRC here, not a paragraph summary of all PRC/ROC territorial disputes. Also, I thought we agreed to not have a second "China" line under C, instead a see also after the PRC entry. Nobody is going to look for Taiwan (as a country) under China. SchmuckyTheCat 18:02, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't think that this is a good compromise that fulfils the prinicle of neutrality. The best way to avoid conflict between readers from the PRC and the readers from the ROC is to abide by the more neutral point of view in the "1992 consensus" (九二共識) agreed by the officials from the two side of the Taiwan Strait. Otherwise, the readers from either side of the Strait may feel offended. (Say, the pan-blue folks don't like to use the term "China" to refer to the PRC, and think that "China" can also be referred to the ROC. Meanwhile, the pan-red folks may not like stating "China" and "Taiwan" as two nations.) The most important conclusion in the 1992 consensus is the principle of "一個中國,各自表述" or "一中各表". That is, there is only one "China" in the world, but is now under two regimes as a result of the civil war. Both the PRC and ROC should recognize their own regime as "China", while respecting the peaceful coexistence of one another. The best way to fulfill this more neutral point of view is to put both "China, People's Republic of" and "China, Republic of" in "C", and give a redirection from "Taiwan" to "China, Republic of" in "T." - Alanmak 20:14, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
The list does not contain Tokelau. It was there in the older version. -- ChongDae
Can anyone advise whether the extra-territorial properties as agreed in the 1929 Lateran Treaty come under the jurisdiction (though not sovereign) of the Holy See or the Vatican City? DD Ting 16:42, 13 Aug 2005 (UTC)
The list should be linked to U.S. Virgin Islands instead of Virgin Islands. — Insta ntnood 19:24, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)
Can we use the same ordering for both parts of the Virgin Islands. Either list them as British Virgin Islands and U.S. Virgin Islands or as Virgin Islands, British and Virgin Islands, U.S.? The simplest option would be to move British Virgin Islands to Virgin Islands, British. Ben Arnold 00:44, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Could those two also follow this criteria? About the naming, I mean. 23prootie 16:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there a reason Western Sahara is not on this list?
Interesting. I just ask because the CIA world fact book considers it Western Sahara.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/wi.html
Should Tamil Eelam be considered a de facto country?
I do not think that Taiwan should be listed together with internationally recognized sovereign states, since Taiwan is more something like a "disputed territory", and not a "internationally recognized sovereign state". Besides this, most countries which have relationships with Taiwan, actually have economic but no diplomatic relationships. If one country trade with Taiwan it does not mean that this country recognize Taiwan as a state. The China consider that Taiwan is part of China, and many countries recognize this "One China policy". So, the sovereignty of Taiwan is a disputed issue.
For example, here is a Wikipedia article about Taiwan independence. Quote: "Taiwan independence is a political movement whose goal is primarily to create an independent and sovereign Republic of Taiwan (out of the lands currently administered by the Republic of China) that is politically, culturally, and geographically separate from China."
So, if their goal is to create a "independent and sovereign Republic of Taiwan", than it is quite obvious that Taiwan is not sovereign and independent.
Another example:
Quote: "The People's Republic of China has blocked Taiwan from having official diplomatic ties with almost every country in the world. If a country wants to do business with China, it must denounce Taiwan and remove it's embassy. The PRC is blocking Taiwan from having a seat in the United Nations, and prevents the Taiwanese from even the right to fly their own flag in the Olympic Games."
"There are several different opinions among the Taiwanese as to what to to with this question. Some feel that Taiwan belongs to the Taiwanese and that they should declare themselves as an independent country, completely separate from Mainland China. Others are of the opinion that reunification might be acceptable only if China was a truly democratic society. Still others would like to see Taiwan as part of China at any cost. By charter of the United Nations, the people of Taiwan are entitled to decide for themselves what their final outcome will be."
etc, etc....
More web sites about this issue could be seen here:
Still, a number of books and atlases, which I read, do not list Taiwan or ROC as an "sovereign country", but as an "disputed territory" under the de jure sovereignty of China (People's Republic of China), but de facto independent. So, I think that Taiwan belong in the list together with Abhazia and Northern Cyprus, and not together with 192 undisputed sovereign countries of the World. User:PANONIAN
Here is what I mean:
Quote: "The legal question of which legal entity holds de jure sovereignty over Taiwan is a controversial issue. Various legal claims have been made by the People's Republic of China (PRC), the Republic of China (ROC), and supporters of Taiwan independence over this question, with a variety of arguments advanced by all sides."
Ok, I agree with this change. Taiwan status is a specific question, and its sovereignty status has not been fully solved yet. I think that proper criteria to define a fully sovereign state would be that this state is recognized by most other countries (not only few or several). User:PANONIAN
The Human Development Index ( HDI) is a standard UN measure/ rank of how developed a country is or is not. It is a composite index based on GDP per capita (PPP), literacy, life expectancy, and school enrollment. However, as it is a composite index/rank, some may challenge its usefulness or applicability as information.
Thus, the following question is put to a vote:
Should any, some, or all of the following be included in the Wikipedia Infobox#Countries|country infobox/template:
YES / NO / UNDECIDED/ABSTAIN - vote here
Thanks!
E Pluribus Anthony 01:52, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Given the current problems Wikipedia is having with images, are the large number of images of this page appropriate? Alan Pascoe 21:42, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
I would get rid of the flags as it takes forever to get the page to load even with a cable modem. There should be a limit to the number of graphics on any page on wikipedia - maybe 15 total. Shocktm 22:25, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
I agree the flags are useful and necessary. This list also served as a list of flags. As for the problem of internet connection, what about a separate list with all the text but exclude all graphics? Does the wiki software allow user to set their preference not to display all images? — Insta ntnood 14:12, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
I think there should no longer be any problem as it didn't take long time to open the list in recent days after the improvement work by Wikipedia. DD Ting 15:19, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
As someone who is here to use the page rather than someone who is here to edit it, I would say that the flags added A LOT to the article. J Milburn 16:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I've visited the website of the NKR Ministry of Foreign Affairs which mentions that people who wish to travel to NKR need to apply visa at the NKR Permanent Mission in Armenia. Does anyone know whether this Mission is diplomatically recognized by Armenia? DD Ting 14:57, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to ask why are public health issues not discussed under countries? (I didn’t check all countries but looked at a few). I’d like to read for example what are the main public health problems in the countries that I’m interested in. Is there a specific reason for this? Or would it be possible for anyone interested to simply start writing about health under different countries? Liisa Mari 14:38, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
its mainly because this isn't the title of this page-- Macphisto 13:40, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
RvEdit, the footnotes are unnecessary as all of the links can be found in the respective pages of the unrecogized countries. -- 202.128.225.52 ( talk · contribs)
While I'm aware all the links or information described in them can be found in all the respective articles, Wikipedia policy (and academic norm.) is such that all the information in any individual article need to be cited with external sources. Basically, one need to be able to verify an article with only access to that article and its sources / references without access to any other Wikipedia article. Other WP article exist to provide more details on a subject, not reference.
And I'm trying to get this list through FLC. Don't help if a reviewer request external sources and it's not there when he look at it, after I said I put it in already. ;-) -- KTC 13:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Do you think we should add the EU as a possible future nation or something like that? Cameron Nedland 04:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Cameron Nedland 03:06, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
I thought they were joking when they said SuperBowl XL was being broadcast in 234 countries and territories, but I guess they missed a few... Good to know there's something irrelevant playing in Djibouti Bobak 17:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
What has created the belief among many English speakers that Ivory Coast is no longer the accepted name and now we are required to use the French translation Côte d'Ivoire ? There are scores of nations on this list that have a different spelling or different name in the local language, yet in English we opt to use our own name when referring to that place. What is it about the Ivory Coast that is different from other nations?
We are allowed to use the name Albania when the locals use “Shqipërisë.” We are allowed to use the name Bhutan while the locals use “Druk Yul.” We are allowed to use Cambodia when we speak English, but the local people use “Srok Khmae.” We use Greece in English, but the Greeks say, “Ellinikí Dhimokratía.” Why the lemmingesque tendency to fall in to lock-step obedience with the herd? What is wrong with using the English name on the English Wikipage?
If, “Côte d'Ivoire,” is correct, then why isn’t French Polynesia listed as, “Polynésie française,” why isn’t Saint-Pierre and Miquelon listed as, “Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon,” why isn’t The Territory of Wallis and Futuna Islands listed as, “Territoire des îles Wallis et Futuna.”
The lack of consistency is glaring.
202.79.62.12 04:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
The point is that Côte d'Ivoire wants to be called Côte d'Ivoire in English as well, and a large number of sources comply. So should we. — Nightst a llion (?) 11:52, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Consensus is a slippery slope. Several languages follow the instructions of the government Ivory Coast and have dutifully altered the name, such as:
Interestingly several Wikipages in various languages (Turkish, Tagalog, etc) list the Francophone name but in parentheses state that the name in English is “Ivory Coast.” A quick scan of other languages suggests that the insistence by the government of the Ivory Coast that we all use the French name is being ignored.
The consensus came from where? Was a poll taken on this discussion page? I suggest that, in regards to the English language, caving in to the dictates of a non-English speaking nation’s government is silly. As native speakers this is our language. Looks like the native speakers of the languages below decided to defy the government of the Ivory Coast.
So obviously there are great numbers of people on the planet ignoring the dictates of the government of the Ivory Coast. Why should native English speakers obey their commend and substitute a pair of French words for a pair of English words? I fail to understand the logic and certainly do not see consensus.
(Esperanto... couldn't resist including it... )
Some weeks ago news emerged that the Taliban had decided to formalize their military control of the tribal back-country of Pakistan by declaring an "Islamic state" in Waziristan ( Google search). I'm curious if that might mean we should accord this area the same status as Abkhazia, Somaliland and co. Thoughts? The Tom 23:00, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Someone added Yugoslavia to the list. Should this be deleted? Shawnc 00:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
This list is simply ridiculous. For example: You CANNOT list China AND Hong Kong as TWO countries because: Hong Kong is a part of China! There are only 193 countries. The only ones who are not members of the United Nations are the Vatican and Taiwan. -- Damifb 13:07, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
If you note, the intro includes 'areas of special sovereignty'. This is why the bases, for example, are included. I think the aim of this list is to be all-inclusive, as opposed to the more specific List of unrecognized countries or list of sovereign states. -- Robdurbar 16:23, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello I suggest to withdraw the bases since they do not have indegenous inhabitants . Otto
-- Damifb 20:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I fixed the display of some of the flags for dependent territories of France and Australia. Since the dependent territories of other countries (most notably the UK) do not display the mother country's flag on this list unless the dependencies do not have a flag of their own, those of Australia and France should also not display those countries' flags, for consistency. I removed the Australian flag from Christmas Island and Cocos (Keeling) Islands, and the French flag from French Polynesia, Wallis and Futuna, and Saint Pierre and Miquelon (the last of which I had to fix the flagicon page to display the actual flag and not the French flag).
I also removed the flag listed for Mayotte and left only the French flag, since the Mayotte flag is not a flag but a coat of arms from what I see on the Mayotte page.
The only place I see that there might be an argument against my change is for Cocos (Keeling) Islands, since its flag is unofficial, unlike the similar one for Christmas Island. OZLAWYER talk 18:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Though we shouldn't predict the result of the referendum, so should wait till results are official, what stance are we gonna take over serbia/montenegro when the referendum is over and if the Montenegrans vote for independence? I think the simplest way would be to list 'Serbia/Montenegro' as one entity with a footnote.
Alternatively, we could list Serbia/Montenegro under the heading '1 state due to dissolve on (date)'; and then have serbia and montenegro listed as '2 states due to seceed on (date)'. Thoughts? -- Robdurbar 23:02, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Technical question, but shouldn't they be considered a single entity rather than two? There's one governor, no apparent legal distinction between the two chunks of lands, and of course one article. I'd merge, but it seems a bit drastic on an FA to knock the numbers around willy-nilly. The Tom 19:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
This is such a well-done listing of countries that I hate to question any of it, as I suspect everybody would have slightly different criteria for inclusion. But these UK bases just don't seem to belong on a list of countries. According to the WP article about Akrotiri and Dhekelia, the bases are on land leased by the Cypriots. Even if the Brits haven't been making lease payments, it seems clear that the British are tenants of Cyprus (which Cyprus? That's another question). As tenants, wouldn't this be Cypriot soil under the jurisdiction of the British? This situation is actually similar to the U.S. base at Guantanamo, yet consensus on that count is that Guantanamo is a part of Cuba that just happens to be under U.S. control via a lease agreement. Also, according to the terms of the deal establishing the sovereign base areas on Cyprus, the base cannot be used for civilian purposes. Any discussion? Goeverywhere 03:48, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering why only inhabited dependent territories are listed here? The distinction is not made on List of dependent territories - all are listed there. Would it not be easier to make this page the summary of List of sovereign states, List of unrecognized countries, and List of dependent territories? ( Shocktm | Talk | contribs.) 20:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Changed the flag of Mayotte back from the flag of France to the Mayotte one. The CIA World Factbook says it is a flag (with a coat of arms on it, but a flag nonetheless), although unofficial. I don't think the unofficial status is that important, it is obviously accepted as the flag of Mayotte in Mayotte, even if not in France. There are several other unofficial flags on this list, including the one of Tokelau I just added as well. As long as it is accepted in the country it relates to, it should be on the list. Feel free to argue. OZLAWYER talk 14:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
I like Timor-Leste too, but until the name on the East Timor article changes (and there has been no consensus to change it yet), the name in this list should be East Timor to conform to that article. OZLAWYER talk 14:11, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
(oops - see later ref) Orderinchaos78 16:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
-- Telex 19:12, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Should there be no objection/counter-suggestion by 3 June 2006, I'll realize my proposal by amending relevant entries as follows -
E
T
-- Pdytwong 2005/5/28, 14:25 (UTC)
The essence of the discussion here is - whether we still stick to the 'official name' principle stated in para 2 of the List of countries that applies to both longform and shortform names. If the answer is in the positive, then it's not a matter of preference or convention but to conform to this rule. Just like the case of Myanmar, while majority of states doesn't recognize the present government there and still call the state Burma, the official shortform name both adopted by the government itself and registered with the UN (also ISO 3166) is Myanmar. As one of the best lists in Wikipedia, I hope this principle can be consistently applied and strictly complied with (unless it is altered with the 'consensus' of editors).
Apart from Côte d'Ivoire, another non-English country name adopted as English title is São Tomé and Príncipe (note: the English word 'and' instead of the Portugese word 'e' is used).
Last, as a side issue, it is just a matter of time for us to be accustomed to using the new names adopted by the countries, like Moldavia Vs Moldova, Belorussia Vs Belarus, Zaire Vs Congo, Rhodesia Vs Zimbabwe, New Hebrides Vs Vanuatu, Gold Coast Vs Ghana and many others.
-- Pdytwong 2005/5/29, 02:26 (UTC)
Pdytwong:
Nightstallion:
Osgoodelawyer said "If the common English usage for the name of a country (or of any geographic place) has been the local term, then the local term is "English" even if there is some sort of English literal translation". I see no diffculty in applying this to Timor-Leste which, as Pdytwong had pointed out, is adopted by the UN as English name. So I revised the list. -- DD Ting 16:03, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I can't understand why we can accept using the "English new names" adopted by the countries (Côte d'Ivoire, Moldova, Belarus, Myanmar...) but just can't take the name Timor-Leste!!!!! -- Pdytwong 2005/5/29, 17:06 (UTC)
See below
From the CIA World Factbook:
Both conventional and local short forms are Macedonia. Why would we pander to Greece on our list by always using "Republic of"?
OZLAWYER talk 14:17, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I support omitting "Republic of" from the short form name of Macedonia. -- DD Ting 16:06, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I've made further amendments/additions to the footnotes of the list which cover the following -
Agree to delete CIS but preserve EU as it has been regarded as far more than an ordinary international organizations, including the CIA World Factbook. -- DD Ting 06:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Osgoodelawyer said "You've certainly done a lot of work here, but much of it is redundant, as the preliminary information notes what countries are, for instance, overseas collectivities of France, British dependencies, and the like (which you've included in footnotes)". Well, as you're aware, most of the footnotes have already existed in the list as remarks to the countries. It's Electionworld who kindly reorganized them into footnotes. I just made some touch-ups with a few additions. If what you said (redundant) is really the case, the remarks (now footnotes) have already existed here alongside the preliminary information for more than 1 year. And it's obvious that no one has ever challenged the co-existence of both and many of us just help fine-tune them. If you really consider them redundant, I just wonder why you didn't raise this before the footnotes were created. So please do look into the background before making any comment. Thanks. -- DD Ting 14:48, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Respectfully, I'm going to have to disagree with the crazed sweeping of as much information into footnotes as possible. For one, there's a tremendously disproportionate percentage of the article contained in them. Footnotes, by their very nature, are largely peripheral details, and in some cases pretty explicitly useful information as to what is and isn't a state is being hidden waaaay down at the bottom of the article. Secondly, part of the reason an extensively laid-out rationale for how the list is constructed was put at the top was precisely so readers could assess the rubric used in the article and construct their own count of the number of countries should their purposes not correspond with the starting point of 243. There are numberous yardsticks for counting countries, ours is a good one that I'm quite fond of, admittedly, but the article is of much broader usefulness if readers can instantly see to what extent such numbers are inflated by entities many people might rightly or wrongly not consider countries. A straightforward tree at the top lets that be done quickly and respectfully of people's own opinions on such matters, rather than stashing such information in a sea of footnotes at the bottom along with largely-irrelevant (IMHO) trivia about who's in the EU and who's a Commonwealth Realm and so on. There are separate articles for those facts. This one is about constructing a definitive list of countries. Finally, while no featured article should be expected to remain static, I've always felt it prudent to be a bit more conservative when dealing with territory that's been hashed-over and thumbs-upped in the past. The Tom 22:32, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
To end the dispute, I've reverted the list to June 1 edition which seemed having no dispute by most who made comments here. -- DD Ting 07:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I've made minor touch-ups with the missing notes for Falkland Islands readded. Originally I also planned to revise the notes in brackets a little bit to make it look like the format that this list was previously honoured (e.g. to amend "French overseas collectivity" as "overseas collectivity of France" so as to avoid using too many adjectives). But having thought twice, I decided not to waste too much effort as the revisions would very likely be reverted by someone who do not like other to edit his "contributions" even just a slash or brackets. To all, sorry that some of my editions (as well as those by others) had caused uncertainty to this list recently. In order to prevent endless debate, I chose not to make major amendments at the moment.-- DD Ting 11:14, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
What's the justification for including Saint Helena's dependencies ( Tristan da Cunha and Ascension Island) as separate entities but not Guernsey's dependencies ( Alderney, Sark, and Herm)? I know it would seem a little weird to include an island with a population of 60 people (Herm) as a country, but Tristan da Cunha itself only has a population of approximately 280 (Sark has 610 and Alderney has 2400). Don't Guernsey's dependencies fall into pretty much the same category of entities as Saint Helena's? OZLAWYER talk 04:58, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Both Ascension Island and Tristan da Cunha are separate UK overseas territories but are administered through Saint Helena owing to their remote locations and limited population. As you can see in the [UK FCO's homepage [40], [41], [42], [43], they are listed separately in the profiles of countries and overseas territories, and have their own information pages. A notable example of their uniqueness is that both of them issue and use their own stamps and have their own local laws (you may refer to their respective articles in Wikipedia for reference). So I put them on the list again. -- DD Ting 14:20, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I changed the designation of "overseas collectivity" to that of "overseas community", as per what the article on that type of entity says. I removed the "overseas country" designation from French Polynesia, since it's listed in the top section only as an overseas collectivity (now community), even though it's officially also called an overseas country. If someone wants to redesignate it an overseas country, then the top part will have to be rewritten to indicate the dual naming. OZLAWYER talk 14:03, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
The long form name of Pitcairn Islands is "Pitcairn, Henderson, Ducie, and Oeno Islands". Please see UK FCO website and CIA World Factbook. -- DD Ting 16:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
This is a misuse of the term "sui generis." Akrotiri and Dhekelia clearly can be and are included in a wider term, Sovereign Base Areas. In fact, if you check Sovereign Base Areas you'll see that there was another one in the past, the Treaty Ports in Ireland. I don't know how to rename it, though, since they're Sovereign Base Areas, plural so "1 Sovereign Base Area on the island of Cyprus, Akrotiri and Dhekelia" doesn't work. Oz Lawyer 00:29, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
If you look into the texts of the 1921 Anglo-Irish Treaty that granted UK the right to retain control over the three treaty ports on the island of Ireland, you will notice that there had never made mention of "sovereign base areas" or even the UK sovereignty over the ports. The terms are recapitulated below for your reference -
"7. The Government of the Irish Free State shall afford to His Majesty’s Imperial Forces
(a) In the time of peace such harbour and other facilities as are indicated in the Annex hereto, or such other facilities as may from time to time be agreed between the British Government and the Government of the Irish Free State; and
(b) In time of war or of strained relations with a Foreign Power such harbour and other facilities as the British Government may require for the purposes of such defence as aforesaid.
ANNEX
The following are the specific facilities required:-
Dockyard Port at Berehaven
(a) Admiralty property and rights to be retained as at the date hereof. Harbour defences to remain in charge of British care and maintenance parties.
Queenstown
Harbour defences to remain in charge of British care and maintenance parties. Certain mooring buoys to be retained for use of His Majesty's ships.
Belfast Lough
Harbour defences to remain in charge of British care and maintenance parties.
Lough Swilly
Harbour defences to remain in charge of British care and maintenance parties."
On the other hand, in respect of A&D, the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee states that -
"ARTICLE III The Republic of Cyprus, Greece and Turkey undertake to respect the integrity of the areas retained under United Kingdom sovereignty at the time of the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus, and guarantee the use and enjoyment by the United Kingdom of the rights to be secured to it by the Republic of Cyprus in accordance with the Treaty concerning the Establishment of the Republic of Cyprus signed at Nicosia on today's date."
It's very clear that UK has sovereignty over A&D that is recognized by Cyprus, Greece and Turkey. As compared with the Treaty Ports in Ireland, I even doubt whether such ports are "sovereign base area" per se. To me, A&D is unique enough to be described (not designated) as sui generis.
-- DD Ting 18:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't agree with the POV attempts of chaning Timor-Leste to East Timor and Côte d'Ivoire to Ivory Coast; what I do agree with is that we should finally get this standardised across Wikipedia. Anyone up to organising a vote on Timor-Leste, Côte d'Ivoire, Myanmar and whichever other countries we can find for which common and official names differ? — Nightst a llion (?) 06:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
To make my point clear, I was not speaking about *this* article only, I was speaking of Wikipedia on the whole. Are we using Timor-Leste or not? It's incongruent to use Côte d'Ivoire, but not Timor-Leste... — Nightst a llion (?) 11:50, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
The debate on East Timor/Timor-Leste seems to be never-ending. I won't argue for either version, since in fullness of time, it may eventually be sorted out (I say "may", because "Burmyanmar" and "Ivory Côte" still haven't had their name sorted definitively in the English-speaking world as shown by this debate). I can think of another place though that had a similar problem: Iran (Persia). I believe that some government of Persiran had declared its official name to be Iran, but the rest of the world didn't catch on for while. Other countries with similar problems included Congo/Zaire and Haiti/St.Dominque. Of course, other countries didn't have to go through naming troubles and have their native, Spanish (or Italian) names used without controversy in English: Peurto Rico (Rich Port), Costa Rica (Rich Coast), Venezuela (Little Venice), El Salvador (the Saviour) and Ecuador (Equator). 72.27.107.50 00:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Apart from the Côte d'Ivoire and Timor-Leste, Macao is an interesting counter example. The Macao government spells its name in Portuguese (which is one of its official languages) as "Macau", but in English as "Macao" ("Macao" is also an archaic Portuguese spelling of its name). In common usage in English its spelling is split between -o and -u, but on Wikipedia the majority has opted for -u based on personal experience.
Other countries having different spellings/names include the Czech Republic/Czechia and Vietnam/Viet Nam. — Insta ntnood 19:11, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
You are correct Electionworld that the examples of Haiti and Congo are not along the same lines as East Timor (since it is about translation). My point was simpler than that. I only meant to show that a fair number of countries have had difficulty with the adoption/usage of their preferred name in English (which is along the same lines as "Ivoire Coast", since it's preferred name is "Côte d'Ivoire", but its more commonly used name (at least before it proclaimed that its name was the same in all languages) was "Ivory Coast". I'm not quite sure I understand what you meant by the Burma example, I take it you mean that the people of that country have (and still do) call their country "Myanmar" whilst the rest of the world ignorantly called it "Burma" until the military junta made "Myanmar" the official name for English as well (which is what the article on Myanmar says anway) The examples given from African countries are different since the rest of the world readily accepted the name changes without any popular debate and without any official refusal (as was the case for Haiti before France and the USA decided to recognize it). The examples I gave were all examples in which countries continued to be referred to in the media or government documents by their previous names (except maybe Zaire/Congo) for some time after they had changed their preferred name in English. My other point was, that there doesn't need to be an intense debate on "East Timor-Leste" or "Ivory Coast/Côte d'Ivoire", because most likely the name debate will sort itself out in the media and amongst governments at some point in the future (like when (or "if") Myanmar's military government loses power to a democratic party, or when one usage (e.g. "Ivory Coast" and "East Timor") becomes predominant over the other variants in media and government usage). The debate on East Timor is even a bit amusing since the etymological meaning of the name (as East Timor or Timor-Leste) means "East East" or "Eastern East". 72.27.11.32 23:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
The issue over the spelling of Myanmar actually carries with it political undertones. The United States has refused to officially adopt this spelling, but its neighbours in Southeast Asia and most other countries did so.-- Huaiwei 15:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
See Talk:List of countries by area#Ranking of non-sovereign states and Talk:List of countries by population density#Is the information in this article true? for a discussion on whether to rank countries that are not sovereign states in a ranked listing of countries by area, population, etc. Thanks. -- Polaron | Talk 17:30, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
What does this mean?
"# W and F What – Territory of Brett and his accomplices [38]"
The footnote doesn't appear to go to anything useful.
Should it be
Republic of China (Taiwan)
China (Republic of) ( Taiwan) – Republic of China (Taiwan)
or
China (Taiwan) – Republic of China (Taiwan)
or just as it was
China (Republic of) – Republic of China
I think we should do the Third since (Taiwan is a discription not apart the name (see the text of [44]. BionicWilliam 02:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
===>My two cents I think it would be most helpful to the user to mention that this entity is usually called "Taiwan." I furthermore think it would be useful to have a link for the word Taiwan, so people can read that article if they want to know more about that entity. Methinks the best solution would be something like this: Under C:
Under T:
For that matter, there should also be an explanatory note at People's Republic of China to the effect that there are two competing governments of China, there is no precise definition for what China is, and the PRC is commonly called "China" and mostly recognized as the sole legitimate Chinese state. I hope that helps. - Justin (koavf), talk, mail 17:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
re [45]. "Holy See of Vatican City" is incorrect form. They are nominally seperate entities. the Holy See is not an agency of the Vatican City. The "Republic of China" is not commonly referred to as the "Republic of China (Taiwan)". Official use does not equate common use. Everything else was just unnecessarily wordy and too much detail for this list. -- Jiang 23:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Is there any proof that Tartupaluk, aka Hans Island—is now an independent country? If so, do any countries recognize it? — Khoikhoi 04:25, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
There is some proof in print. See: Nunatsiaq News, Year 34, Number 31, September 15, 2006. Also there are copies of its proclamation of independence online in English and Danish on the Tartupaluk government website, which does not list any countries as recognizing it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.139.44.224 ( talk • contribs) 04:46, 15 September 2006.
I may be missing something, but why is the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria excluded?-- Tekleni 08:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Please take part on the ongoing debate here on list of unrecognized territories. Thank you. -- Wissahickon Creek talk 08:54, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
A recent edit tried to change "Macao" to "Macau", a change I agree with, but which I reverted due to lack of discussion on the talk page. I still have problems with the way it was decided (mostly by one user, I think who we didn't want to war with), that the "official English names as dictated by the country" would be used. First off, the "Timor-Leste" designation conflicts with WP:NCON#Dealing_with_self-identifying_terms, which states that geographical directions should be translated (and uses East Timor as the example!) This use is also clearly the one in favour in "the real world". Other terms like "Pridnestrovie" are highly unlikely to be found in English, and they really should not be used here. I argued before for using the name that is found in the article for each entity, and I again say that that is how it should go. I mean, if it is policy (maybe "guideline"--but a guideline which is followed everywhere by here) that "Timor-Leste" should be "East Timor", then the rest should also be changed to go along with it. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 14:36, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Existing consensus in other areas of Wikipedia have agreed to use Macau for simple consistency. The arguments, pro and con, for each spelling is in the article. It doesn't need to be bashed out on every single article talk page. Please? SchmuckyTheCat 20:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Proposal:
All are the names of the articles on Wikipedia. If no significant objections, I'm going to change it (this is not a request for a straw poll). └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 20:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Should Scotland be included as a dependancy of the United Kingdom, as it has it's own democratcally elected (by the people of Scotland) government which controls most of the internal descisions such as healthcare, education etc. The British government only decides on issues which would also affect england and Wales such as the defence of the country. Any contributions welcome as since the Vatican City/Holy See is dependant on Italy but has it's own internal government surely Scotland is no different? Donaldhenderson 15:54, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
The United Kingdom is a sovereign state. States belong to the EU and the UN not countries. States possess of territory which may or may not be a country. Nations usually inhabit a country eg the English inhabit England. Scotland is a country and it is inhabited by Scots. Ireland is one country, but divide and is governed by two sovereign states. -- Philip Baird Shearer 01:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
It pains me to say it but Ireland is an island and not a country. Perhaps this page should change its name to Sovereign States?--
Macphisto
13:47, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
The information regarding Palestine in the article is not accurate. The State of Palestine has, as far as I know, no direct connection with the Palestinian Authority, which is a body established pursuant to agreements between the Government of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (which, of course, is also the body that proclaimed the State of Palestine). Furthermore, it is the PLO which is the permanent observer at the UN, not the State of Palestine, nor the Palestinian Authority, the latter being in fact prohibited from engaging in foreign relations under the agreements between the PLO and Israel.
However, upon proclamation of the State of Palestine in 1988, the UN General Assembly decided that the PLO observer mission should thenceforward be designated "Palestine" for the purposes of UN business in UNGAR 43/177. This did not make the State of Palestine an observer at the UN instead of the PLO, as is clear from the text of the resolution. I am not sure to what extent there is a legal relationship between the PLO and the Palestinian Authority, but I suspect it would be more correct to refer to this by simply saying that "the PA, which performs certain governmental functions in parts of the OPT, was established pursuant to agreements between Israel and the PLO" rather than by saying that the PLO exercises partial de fact control of the OPT through it. For some reason my attempts to edit the article have failed. Palmiro | Talk 00:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
As this list includes areas other than countries (sovereign states), viz...
..does anyone else feel a more accurate name for this article would be List of countries and territories or the like...? Thanks, David Kernow (talk) 00:42, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. I was hoping that "Countries and territories" or the like might accommodate POVs as regards contentious areas, POVs that elsewhere have seen time and effort wasted over inclusions, exclusions, descriptions, etc, etc. Regards, David ( talk) 18:15, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Why are French territories other than French Polynesia and New Caledonia included? — Insta ntnood 12:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Can someone do the various (uc/lc) redirects - "states of the world" to this page and "States of Europe" to the relevant page etc. Jackiespeel 15:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
As an alternative to renaming the article List of countries and territories or something similar, I volunteer to reorganize the list so that dependent/autonomous/etc territories etc become sublists below the country with which they are associated. For example, section A of the current list:
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Republic of Abkhazia [1] |
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Islamic Republic of Afghanistan |
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Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia (UK overseas territory) |
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Åland Islands (Autonomous province of Finland) |
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Republic of Albania |
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People's Democratic Republic of Algeria |
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Territory of American Samoa (US overseas territory) |
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Principality of Andorra |
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Republic of Angola |
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|
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Argentine Republic [2] |
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Republic of Armenia |
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Commonwealth of Australia |
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Republic of Austria |
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Republic of Azerbaijan [3] |
...would become:
(Italics indicate de facto status as a country)
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Republic of Abkhazia [1] |
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Islamic Republic of Afghanistan |
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Republic of Albania |
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People's Democratic Republic of Algeria |
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Principality of Andorra |
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Republic of Angola |
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|
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Argentine Republic [4] |
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Republic of Armenia |
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Commonwealth of Australia |
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Republic of Austria |
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Republic of Azerbaijan [5] |
...with the dependent etc territories appearing under their associated countries elsewhere in the list:
... | |
Republic of Finland
| |
... |
... | |
Kingdom of the Netherlands [6]
| |
... |
... | |
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
| |
... | |
United States of America
| |
... |
Can the above have a redirect to this article page please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.194.75.209 ( talk) 14:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC).
Can someone clarify the reason why French overseas territories are not considered countries? Quoting one of the footnotes: "The overseas regions/overseas departments of French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique and Réunion are integral part of France, and therefore not listed." The definition of "integral part" in the above quote is not clear, and it leads to confusion as to why other countries' overseas territories cannot be called such integral parts. cherkash 23:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I would like to change the vertical "List by country" navigational box on the right of this page to a horizontal one at the bottom. Please discuss at Template talk:Lists by country. -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 12:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Would anyone else prefer this article set out as a table? This would enable us to fill in a short list of vital statistics about each country - e.g. short name, extended name, its capital, dependencies/dependency of, population as of (date). It is my opinion that the article should be interesting in its own right, and not just a point to spring off to others. I came to this page not really to find specific countries - I doubt many have - but rather for an interesting comparison of countries, to learn capital cities, etc. Other lists are interesting in their own right because they are listed by something non-trivial, e.g. GDP, whereas an alphabetical list is just a little dull. The article as a table can still completely fulfill its current purpose.
Jameshfisher 15:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't Serbia be under the entities included in this article? - Patricknoddy 5:43pm, January 16, 2007
Reason: the inconsistency of the title: List of countries and description which also include the dependency.-- Ksyrie 23:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't see why I need to have a consensus for a change, but Kosovo is not a country. It is an autonomous province of Serbia. Autonomous provinces are not typically listed as countries. For other examples see Nakhichevan, Tatarstan, Catalonia, Xinjiang, Aosta Valley, and so forth. Obviously, Kosovo is a somewhat special case, in that its special position is guaranteed by outside powers as much as (or more than) by the constitution of Serbia, but it is still a province, and will be until it becomes de jure independent. john k 06:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I removed Kosovo from the list, because it is not an area of special sovereignity.
Nikola
15:40, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
So, I believe that Kosovo, and not only Kosovo, should be removed from the list. First of all, inclusion of special entities recognized by international treaty or agreement is a bad idea. For example, a few more that could be added to the list are South Tyrol (recognised by Treaty of Gruber-De Gasperi), Republika Srpska and Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina (recognised by Dayton Agreement) and it could be seen that the list would quickly become ridiculous. In addition, these territories are not generally considered countries. All of this should then apply to Kosovo as well, since it is not even a special entity recognized by international treaty or agreement. And, please: cherry-picking arguments for inclusion so that Kosovo stays in should not be the norm in the discussion. Nikola 22:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Quick survey of the pro and con arguments for which Kosovo should or shouldn't be part of this list. See [56]. Please add your name and 2-3 sentences. Also, if your position is primarily based on what you understand by country - the definition in the beginning of the article or de jure independent - please state so clearly.: Dc76 13:00, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Pros
Cons
Another suggestion - how about simply following United Nations geoscheme [57]? Nikola 15:20, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Just a preemptive FYI before I trigger the reversion gods. Saint Martin and Saint Barths were legally separated from Guadeloupe (an integral part of France) and reconstituted as separate overseas collectivities (non-integral dependent territories) by a law that took effect on February 22. The Tom 20:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
You may find it usefull to peruse cities that link to the different timezones. (ex. Go to UTC-5 and click what links here)
I did try to make a category for cities by UTC timezone but a CfD prevailed and it was removed... taking away a list of 5000+ cities categorized (see my back-up. There was not enough support for such a category.
Many cities currently utilize the {{ template:Infobox city}} and have a link to the related UTC timezone. Use this to your benefit. You can find a list of cities by clicking the corresponding UTC timezone. And, if ever you feel like bringing back the category we will need at least 5 to 7 people to support this. GO to my project WP:CCT and start a section to voice your opinion. When we have enough people we'll start the cat. -- CyclePat 22:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
According to the CIA World Factbook, Western Sahara has no official long form. Why is there an offical long form on the list? 76.205.65.198 20:35, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
This is my a proposal. I am not sure I listed Kosovo correctly. I coppied
Tamil Eelam b/c it is in the list (the first blue link) in the definition of the group of 10. See also
Talk:List of sovereign states.:
Dc76
23:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Here is my new proposal: [58]
For arguments, see also [59], [60], please.
Thank you for repling below. : Dc76 20:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Closure of the vote Transnistrian Moldovan Republic, abreviated to Transnistria, as explained by User:Lexicon, this is already in the article: Dc76 17:12, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
ABK
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
For the inclusion of sovereign states, see talk:list of sovereign states and for the inclusion of dependent territories the talk:list of dependent territories. We do not need a double discussion. So if a country is deleted from on of the other lists, this list follows.
This list includes the native names. I plan to delete these, since these are included in the list of sovereign states. Before I do that, I wait three days (1st of may I will start), to hear arguments. Electionworld 22:16, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
There are some mistakes on the list on which countries are considered federal. At first glance, Germany, the USA and Russia don't appear as federal states, while Spain does. I've always thought of Germany, the USA and Russia as the most obvious examples of federal states, and although Spain's autonomic system is virtually federal, it isn't officially so. I'm sure there must be other mistakes if even the USA isn't marked as federal, so it might come in handy if someone with a better knowledge of geography than me went through the list and made sure the rest are OK. However, this has brought up another question. Should we mark federal states as such? Is there a real reason for it? Because me might just as well mark democratic countries as democracies, and dictatorships as such. For the time being, I'm going to fix Spain, Germany, the USA and Russia.-- Daniel Medina 19:31, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I was one of the early advocates for moving away from a list purely of sovereign states to a more inclusive list. At the time I was a bit nervous that it would be difficult to draw the line, and we'd end up with a list consisting mainly of military bases. But my unspoken fears were unfounded. The line is drawn well, and it's gained widespread acceptance. The list is very authoritative, probably the most NPOV and authoritative list on the internet. I really like the annex idea. Those responsible deserve a pat on the back! Ben Arnold 00:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
This page is a politically correct attempt to placate and appease any and all. Don’t stop now 1 Increase the list by widening the net!
Does anyone know why most international lists of countries list overseas departments of France as seperate entities, but don't list Alaska and Hawaii?
The overseas departments of France are not listed. France has 4 overseas departments that are fully incorperated into the state just like Alaska or Hawaii. France also has 5 overseas territories that are basicly indepependent except for foreign policy like Puerto Rico or the US Virgin Islands. It's explained here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_overseas_departments_and_territories
Is there some kind of rule of thumb that federal countries can be non-contiguous, whereas non-contiguous parts of unitary states are regarded as separate territories?
Ben Arnold 00:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
I think it depends on the legal status of the entities. In some cases, the non-contiguous parts of non-federal states like Azores and Madeira Islands of Portugal and Canary Islands of Spain are not regarded as separate entities due to their sharing same legal status with other subnational units in those countries. Whereas in other cases the contiguous parts of non-federal states (like Hong Kong and Macau of the People's Republic of China) which have their own legal systems are listed separately. Concerning the French overseas departments, it is a bit ambiguous as some treat them as with same legal status as metropolitan departments while others don't. You may refer to the discussion below for details. -- DD Ting 10 November 2005, 09:45 (UTC)
Does something like this already exsists?(Anon)
I think that it would be very useful to set-up a country listing, downloadable in some format (CVS, XML, Excel), that holds some additional information for each country, such as:
- international short name - English (e.g. Germany) - international long name - English (e.g. Federal Republic of Germany) - international short name - French (e.g. Allemagne) - international long name - French (e.g. Républic Fédérale de l'Allemagne) - international name - .... other languages (--> perhaps the six official UN languages; thus Spanish, Chinese, Russian, Arabic) - local short name (e.g. Deutschland) - local long name (e.g. Bundesrepublik Deutschland) - official languages (e.g. German; for Switzerland: German, French, Italian) - Capital (e.g. Berlin) (local and international form) - eventually coordinates for drawing a rectangle that encompasses the country
Some of the information exists. But not all. With the help of all these Wikipedia users around the world it should be fairly easy to set-up such a list. There are some UN lists too (UN Statistical Divison, UN Cartographic Section, UNTERM), but none of them includes all proposed fields. A public "database" of this information would really be a great thing. Ok, there are some political sensitive issues to be aware of, but the list below shows that it is nevertheless possible to come up with something (fairly) complete. Luftikus143 13:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I hereby suggest that the prefix for airplane's registration-numbers in the country (eg. "LN" for Norway) - perhaps along with the nationa-emblem (eg. a circle with concentric red, white and blue circles for the USA), should be added in the Infobox.
I also suggest that the prefix used in the countries Amateur-Radio (HAM) call-signs to be added (eg. for Norway (AFAIK) LA, LB, LC and LØ (zero) - though I think all but LA and perhaps LØ are obsolete. We used to have LA for full, LB for limited and LC for technical license, and LØ used on Norwgian possessions(?) ) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.248.29.232 ( talk) 09:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC).
MOS states that 'If looking for a good rule of thumb, do not italicize words that appear in an English language dictionary.' This includes terms such as '
de facto' and '
de jure'.
P
æ
dia
22:00, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
The name "Czechia" was announced by the Czech Ministry of Foreign Affairs in 1993 for use as the short form title of the Czech Republic. While it has not been so caught on in English usage, as it has already been stated in para 2 of the list that "The names are given in English and include both the short official names (e.g. Afghanistan) and the (longer) official name (e.g. The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan). The listing of any name in this article is not meant to imply an official position in any naming dispute.", no matter you like it or not, it's still much appropriate to put "Czechia" on the list as the official short form title of Czech Republic, just like Belarus vis-á-vis Byelorussia and Côte d'Ivoire vis-á-vis Ivory Coast. DD Ting 03:10, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
Let's promote the use of "Czechia" as a respect to the country and its people. DD Ting 03:21, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
Generally good list but I don't support the inclusion of the french DOMs. They are equal in status to the Metropolitan departments and as much a part of France as Hawaii is of the USA or Tasmania of Australia, and neither of those are on this list. - Randwicked 09:11, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC). I excluded the French departments from the future list above Electionworld 11:39, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
About French listed territories : France is divided into "collectivité territoriales", among them 4 "collectivités d'outre-mer" (overseas collectivities) (article #74 of French constitution) : French Polynesia, Mayotte, Saint Pierre and Miquelon, Wallis and Futuna. Even if French Polynesia's own statutory law calls it a "pays d'outre-mer" (overseas country), it also refers to its constitutionnaly statute of overseas collectivity. So I think French Polynesia should be included into French overseas collectivities, not into French overseas countries. Note that the other overseas collectivities' statutory laws give each a particular name : Mayotte is a "collectivité départementale" (departemental collectivity), Saint Pierre and Miquelon a "collectivité territoriale" (territorial collectivity) and Wallis and Futuna a "territoire d'outre mer" (overseas territory). New Caledonia is not a "collectivité territoriale". It's unique statute has no name, that's why it is said to be sui generis. It's own laws are called "lois de pays" (country laws), so it could be called a "pays" (country). But collectivity, even sui generis, is not appropriate.
I would support the inclusion of the four French DOM. Eventhough they are equal in status to the Metropolitan departments (but so were the Algerian départements!), the continuing existence of the right of self-determination of their peoples in the framework of decolonization cannot be denied. France would contravene public international law by not granting them independence if a clear majority of the population were in favor. For other French départements or régions, e.g. Alsace or Brittany, this is not the case, since their populations do not have a right to self-determination under public international law, even though one might sympathize with the aspirations of an ancient Celtic people such as the Bretons. Hence, there is a clear difference between them and the DOM. This is also proven by the fact that changes in the status of the DOM are not unilaterally imposed by France, but subject to referenda in which only their inhabitants (and not those of metropolitan France) can participate. This led for instance to the separation of the "collectivités territoriales" Saint-Barthélémy and Saint-Martin from the DOM of Guadeloupe, which will take place in 2007. Hence the four DOM and in the near future the two new territorial collectivities should be included. MaartenVidal 16:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Technically the Netherlands is the European part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. The Netherlands ≠ the Kingdom of the Netherlands. — Insta ntnood 19:24, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)
To the best of my knowledge and from what I learned from the discussion in the List of sovereign states, I was given the impression that Sealand meets all criteria as a state as like other de facto independent states (e.g. Abkhazia). It has defined territory (550 sq m) and even territial waters (12nm). It has a functional government. It has a running economy ( HavenCo) and the staff working there and the Bate's family constitute permanent population of the state. It is out of the jurisdiction of any other sovereign states (e.g. UK). While it's an artifical island, the state was established long before the promulgation of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea in 1982 which thus has no legal effect on it. When the principality declared in 1967, it was outside the UK's territorial waters (3nm, not 12nm which was declared by the UK government in later years). While no sovereign states have ever established diplomatic relations with Sealand, the 1978 incident had indeed constituted de facto recognition of Sealand by Germany. So Sealand has already met the criteria of a state. As it is not recognized by any sovereign states in the world, it is appropriate to classify Sealand as de facto independent state. DD Ting 04:07, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
And by the way "Taiwan" is a conventional rather than official short form. — Insta ntnood 15:58, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)
Jiang deleted the sentence de facto sovereign state at Taiwan. Could he please argue why Taiwan should not considered to be a de facto sovereign state. Electionworld 11:12, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
Should Taiwan have a pointer at China? SchmuckyTheCat 09:22, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
There is no doubt that nowadays the ROC government is commonly regarded as Taiwan authorities instead of the government of China. However, legally speaking the ROC government has never formally denounced its claim over its former territories including Mainland China and Outer Mongolia. It's also worth noting that the ROC government has been in existence (without interruption) since 1912 when it was established in Nanjing, China, and among the states which still maintain diplomatic relations with ROC, some (e.g. Honduras, Paraguay) had established such relationship before the ROC government moved to Taiwan in 1949. For Holy See, it treats its diplomatic relation with ROC as with "China" as noted from its official website. So it is not factually wrong to put "China (ROC)" side-by-side with "China (PRC)" on the list. But to be accustomed to conventional wisdom, I think it's better maintaining status quo (i.e. "Taiwan (ROC") with a note at "China (PRC)" (i.e. "(see also Taiwan (ROC))"). DD Ting 02:57, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
Let's be consequent. Generally in Wikipedia the entries regarding the (politics of etc. the ) state are named Republic of China etc.. Taiwan is used for the island or a redirect follows. Electionworld 08:13, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
Yesterday I severely shortened the essay after the Taiwan entry. This is a simple list and we should avoid having huge paragraph long essays about political status on any country/territory here. We need one link here to the issue with the PRC here, not a paragraph summary of all PRC/ROC territorial disputes. Also, I thought we agreed to not have a second "China" line under C, instead a see also after the PRC entry. Nobody is going to look for Taiwan (as a country) under China. SchmuckyTheCat 18:02, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't think that this is a good compromise that fulfils the prinicle of neutrality. The best way to avoid conflict between readers from the PRC and the readers from the ROC is to abide by the more neutral point of view in the "1992 consensus" (九二共識) agreed by the officials from the two side of the Taiwan Strait. Otherwise, the readers from either side of the Strait may feel offended. (Say, the pan-blue folks don't like to use the term "China" to refer to the PRC, and think that "China" can also be referred to the ROC. Meanwhile, the pan-red folks may not like stating "China" and "Taiwan" as two nations.) The most important conclusion in the 1992 consensus is the principle of "一個中國,各自表述" or "一中各表". That is, there is only one "China" in the world, but is now under two regimes as a result of the civil war. Both the PRC and ROC should recognize their own regime as "China", while respecting the peaceful coexistence of one another. The best way to fulfill this more neutral point of view is to put both "China, People's Republic of" and "China, Republic of" in "C", and give a redirection from "Taiwan" to "China, Republic of" in "T." - Alanmak 20:14, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
The list does not contain Tokelau. It was there in the older version. -- ChongDae
Can anyone advise whether the extra-territorial properties as agreed in the 1929 Lateran Treaty come under the jurisdiction (though not sovereign) of the Holy See or the Vatican City? DD Ting 16:42, 13 Aug 2005 (UTC)
The list should be linked to U.S. Virgin Islands instead of Virgin Islands. — Insta ntnood 19:24, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)
Can we use the same ordering for both parts of the Virgin Islands. Either list them as British Virgin Islands and U.S. Virgin Islands or as Virgin Islands, British and Virgin Islands, U.S.? The simplest option would be to move British Virgin Islands to Virgin Islands, British. Ben Arnold 00:44, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Could those two also follow this criteria? About the naming, I mean. 23prootie 16:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there a reason Western Sahara is not on this list?
Interesting. I just ask because the CIA world fact book considers it Western Sahara.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/wi.html
Should Tamil Eelam be considered a de facto country?
I do not think that Taiwan should be listed together with internationally recognized sovereign states, since Taiwan is more something like a "disputed territory", and not a "internationally recognized sovereign state". Besides this, most countries which have relationships with Taiwan, actually have economic but no diplomatic relationships. If one country trade with Taiwan it does not mean that this country recognize Taiwan as a state. The China consider that Taiwan is part of China, and many countries recognize this "One China policy". So, the sovereignty of Taiwan is a disputed issue.
For example, here is a Wikipedia article about Taiwan independence. Quote: "Taiwan independence is a political movement whose goal is primarily to create an independent and sovereign Republic of Taiwan (out of the lands currently administered by the Republic of China) that is politically, culturally, and geographically separate from China."
So, if their goal is to create a "independent and sovereign Republic of Taiwan", than it is quite obvious that Taiwan is not sovereign and independent.
Another example:
Quote: "The People's Republic of China has blocked Taiwan from having official diplomatic ties with almost every country in the world. If a country wants to do business with China, it must denounce Taiwan and remove it's embassy. The PRC is blocking Taiwan from having a seat in the United Nations, and prevents the Taiwanese from even the right to fly their own flag in the Olympic Games."
"There are several different opinions among the Taiwanese as to what to to with this question. Some feel that Taiwan belongs to the Taiwanese and that they should declare themselves as an independent country, completely separate from Mainland China. Others are of the opinion that reunification might be acceptable only if China was a truly democratic society. Still others would like to see Taiwan as part of China at any cost. By charter of the United Nations, the people of Taiwan are entitled to decide for themselves what their final outcome will be."
etc, etc....
More web sites about this issue could be seen here:
Still, a number of books and atlases, which I read, do not list Taiwan or ROC as an "sovereign country", but as an "disputed territory" under the de jure sovereignty of China (People's Republic of China), but de facto independent. So, I think that Taiwan belong in the list together with Abhazia and Northern Cyprus, and not together with 192 undisputed sovereign countries of the World. User:PANONIAN
Here is what I mean:
Quote: "The legal question of which legal entity holds de jure sovereignty over Taiwan is a controversial issue. Various legal claims have been made by the People's Republic of China (PRC), the Republic of China (ROC), and supporters of Taiwan independence over this question, with a variety of arguments advanced by all sides."
Ok, I agree with this change. Taiwan status is a specific question, and its sovereignty status has not been fully solved yet. I think that proper criteria to define a fully sovereign state would be that this state is recognized by most other countries (not only few or several). User:PANONIAN
The Human Development Index ( HDI) is a standard UN measure/ rank of how developed a country is or is not. It is a composite index based on GDP per capita (PPP), literacy, life expectancy, and school enrollment. However, as it is a composite index/rank, some may challenge its usefulness or applicability as information.
Thus, the following question is put to a vote:
Should any, some, or all of the following be included in the Wikipedia Infobox#Countries|country infobox/template:
YES / NO / UNDECIDED/ABSTAIN - vote here
Thanks!
E Pluribus Anthony 01:52, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
Given the current problems Wikipedia is having with images, are the large number of images of this page appropriate? Alan Pascoe 21:42, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
I would get rid of the flags as it takes forever to get the page to load even with a cable modem. There should be a limit to the number of graphics on any page on wikipedia - maybe 15 total. Shocktm 22:25, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
I agree the flags are useful and necessary. This list also served as a list of flags. As for the problem of internet connection, what about a separate list with all the text but exclude all graphics? Does the wiki software allow user to set their preference not to display all images? — Insta ntnood 14:12, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
I think there should no longer be any problem as it didn't take long time to open the list in recent days after the improvement work by Wikipedia. DD Ting 15:19, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
As someone who is here to use the page rather than someone who is here to edit it, I would say that the flags added A LOT to the article. J Milburn 16:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
I've visited the website of the NKR Ministry of Foreign Affairs which mentions that people who wish to travel to NKR need to apply visa at the NKR Permanent Mission in Armenia. Does anyone know whether this Mission is diplomatically recognized by Armenia? DD Ting 14:57, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
I'd like to ask why are public health issues not discussed under countries? (I didn’t check all countries but looked at a few). I’d like to read for example what are the main public health problems in the countries that I’m interested in. Is there a specific reason for this? Or would it be possible for anyone interested to simply start writing about health under different countries? Liisa Mari 14:38, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
its mainly because this isn't the title of this page-- Macphisto 13:40, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
RvEdit, the footnotes are unnecessary as all of the links can be found in the respective pages of the unrecogized countries. -- 202.128.225.52 ( talk · contribs)
While I'm aware all the links or information described in them can be found in all the respective articles, Wikipedia policy (and academic norm.) is such that all the information in any individual article need to be cited with external sources. Basically, one need to be able to verify an article with only access to that article and its sources / references without access to any other Wikipedia article. Other WP article exist to provide more details on a subject, not reference.
And I'm trying to get this list through FLC. Don't help if a reviewer request external sources and it's not there when he look at it, after I said I put it in already. ;-) -- KTC 13:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Do you think we should add the EU as a possible future nation or something like that? Cameron Nedland 04:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Cameron Nedland 03:06, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
I thought they were joking when they said SuperBowl XL was being broadcast in 234 countries and territories, but I guess they missed a few... Good to know there's something irrelevant playing in Djibouti Bobak 17:37, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
What has created the belief among many English speakers that Ivory Coast is no longer the accepted name and now we are required to use the French translation Côte d'Ivoire ? There are scores of nations on this list that have a different spelling or different name in the local language, yet in English we opt to use our own name when referring to that place. What is it about the Ivory Coast that is different from other nations?
We are allowed to use the name Albania when the locals use “Shqipërisë.” We are allowed to use the name Bhutan while the locals use “Druk Yul.” We are allowed to use Cambodia when we speak English, but the local people use “Srok Khmae.” We use Greece in English, but the Greeks say, “Ellinikí Dhimokratía.” Why the lemmingesque tendency to fall in to lock-step obedience with the herd? What is wrong with using the English name on the English Wikipage?
If, “Côte d'Ivoire,” is correct, then why isn’t French Polynesia listed as, “Polynésie française,” why isn’t Saint-Pierre and Miquelon listed as, “Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon,” why isn’t The Territory of Wallis and Futuna Islands listed as, “Territoire des îles Wallis et Futuna.”
The lack of consistency is glaring.
202.79.62.12 04:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
The point is that Côte d'Ivoire wants to be called Côte d'Ivoire in English as well, and a large number of sources comply. So should we. — Nightst a llion (?) 11:52, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Consensus is a slippery slope. Several languages follow the instructions of the government Ivory Coast and have dutifully altered the name, such as:
Interestingly several Wikipages in various languages (Turkish, Tagalog, etc) list the Francophone name but in parentheses state that the name in English is “Ivory Coast.” A quick scan of other languages suggests that the insistence by the government of the Ivory Coast that we all use the French name is being ignored.
The consensus came from where? Was a poll taken on this discussion page? I suggest that, in regards to the English language, caving in to the dictates of a non-English speaking nation’s government is silly. As native speakers this is our language. Looks like the native speakers of the languages below decided to defy the government of the Ivory Coast.
So obviously there are great numbers of people on the planet ignoring the dictates of the government of the Ivory Coast. Why should native English speakers obey their commend and substitute a pair of French words for a pair of English words? I fail to understand the logic and certainly do not see consensus.
(Esperanto... couldn't resist including it... )
Some weeks ago news emerged that the Taliban had decided to formalize their military control of the tribal back-country of Pakistan by declaring an "Islamic state" in Waziristan ( Google search). I'm curious if that might mean we should accord this area the same status as Abkhazia, Somaliland and co. Thoughts? The Tom 23:00, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Someone added Yugoslavia to the list. Should this be deleted? Shawnc 00:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
This list is simply ridiculous. For example: You CANNOT list China AND Hong Kong as TWO countries because: Hong Kong is a part of China! There are only 193 countries. The only ones who are not members of the United Nations are the Vatican and Taiwan. -- Damifb 13:07, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
If you note, the intro includes 'areas of special sovereignty'. This is why the bases, for example, are included. I think the aim of this list is to be all-inclusive, as opposed to the more specific List of unrecognized countries or list of sovereign states. -- Robdurbar 16:23, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello I suggest to withdraw the bases since they do not have indegenous inhabitants . Otto
-- Damifb 20:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I fixed the display of some of the flags for dependent territories of France and Australia. Since the dependent territories of other countries (most notably the UK) do not display the mother country's flag on this list unless the dependencies do not have a flag of their own, those of Australia and France should also not display those countries' flags, for consistency. I removed the Australian flag from Christmas Island and Cocos (Keeling) Islands, and the French flag from French Polynesia, Wallis and Futuna, and Saint Pierre and Miquelon (the last of which I had to fix the flagicon page to display the actual flag and not the French flag).
I also removed the flag listed for Mayotte and left only the French flag, since the Mayotte flag is not a flag but a coat of arms from what I see on the Mayotte page.
The only place I see that there might be an argument against my change is for Cocos (Keeling) Islands, since its flag is unofficial, unlike the similar one for Christmas Island. OZLAWYER talk 18:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
Though we shouldn't predict the result of the referendum, so should wait till results are official, what stance are we gonna take over serbia/montenegro when the referendum is over and if the Montenegrans vote for independence? I think the simplest way would be to list 'Serbia/Montenegro' as one entity with a footnote.
Alternatively, we could list Serbia/Montenegro under the heading '1 state due to dissolve on (date)'; and then have serbia and montenegro listed as '2 states due to seceed on (date)'. Thoughts? -- Robdurbar 23:02, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Technical question, but shouldn't they be considered a single entity rather than two? There's one governor, no apparent legal distinction between the two chunks of lands, and of course one article. I'd merge, but it seems a bit drastic on an FA to knock the numbers around willy-nilly. The Tom 19:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
This is such a well-done listing of countries that I hate to question any of it, as I suspect everybody would have slightly different criteria for inclusion. But these UK bases just don't seem to belong on a list of countries. According to the WP article about Akrotiri and Dhekelia, the bases are on land leased by the Cypriots. Even if the Brits haven't been making lease payments, it seems clear that the British are tenants of Cyprus (which Cyprus? That's another question). As tenants, wouldn't this be Cypriot soil under the jurisdiction of the British? This situation is actually similar to the U.S. base at Guantanamo, yet consensus on that count is that Guantanamo is a part of Cuba that just happens to be under U.S. control via a lease agreement. Also, according to the terms of the deal establishing the sovereign base areas on Cyprus, the base cannot be used for civilian purposes. Any discussion? Goeverywhere 03:48, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering why only inhabited dependent territories are listed here? The distinction is not made on List of dependent territories - all are listed there. Would it not be easier to make this page the summary of List of sovereign states, List of unrecognized countries, and List of dependent territories? ( Shocktm | Talk | contribs.) 20:54, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Changed the flag of Mayotte back from the flag of France to the Mayotte one. The CIA World Factbook says it is a flag (with a coat of arms on it, but a flag nonetheless), although unofficial. I don't think the unofficial status is that important, it is obviously accepted as the flag of Mayotte in Mayotte, even if not in France. There are several other unofficial flags on this list, including the one of Tokelau I just added as well. As long as it is accepted in the country it relates to, it should be on the list. Feel free to argue. OZLAWYER talk 14:09, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
I like Timor-Leste too, but until the name on the East Timor article changes (and there has been no consensus to change it yet), the name in this list should be East Timor to conform to that article. OZLAWYER talk 14:11, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
(oops - see later ref) Orderinchaos78 16:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
-- Telex 19:12, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Should there be no objection/counter-suggestion by 3 June 2006, I'll realize my proposal by amending relevant entries as follows -
E
T
-- Pdytwong 2005/5/28, 14:25 (UTC)
The essence of the discussion here is - whether we still stick to the 'official name' principle stated in para 2 of the List of countries that applies to both longform and shortform names. If the answer is in the positive, then it's not a matter of preference or convention but to conform to this rule. Just like the case of Myanmar, while majority of states doesn't recognize the present government there and still call the state Burma, the official shortform name both adopted by the government itself and registered with the UN (also ISO 3166) is Myanmar. As one of the best lists in Wikipedia, I hope this principle can be consistently applied and strictly complied with (unless it is altered with the 'consensus' of editors).
Apart from Côte d'Ivoire, another non-English country name adopted as English title is São Tomé and Príncipe (note: the English word 'and' instead of the Portugese word 'e' is used).
Last, as a side issue, it is just a matter of time for us to be accustomed to using the new names adopted by the countries, like Moldavia Vs Moldova, Belorussia Vs Belarus, Zaire Vs Congo, Rhodesia Vs Zimbabwe, New Hebrides Vs Vanuatu, Gold Coast Vs Ghana and many others.
-- Pdytwong 2005/5/29, 02:26 (UTC)
Pdytwong:
Nightstallion:
Osgoodelawyer said "If the common English usage for the name of a country (or of any geographic place) has been the local term, then the local term is "English" even if there is some sort of English literal translation". I see no diffculty in applying this to Timor-Leste which, as Pdytwong had pointed out, is adopted by the UN as English name. So I revised the list. -- DD Ting 16:03, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I can't understand why we can accept using the "English new names" adopted by the countries (Côte d'Ivoire, Moldova, Belarus, Myanmar...) but just can't take the name Timor-Leste!!!!! -- Pdytwong 2005/5/29, 17:06 (UTC)
See below
From the CIA World Factbook:
Both conventional and local short forms are Macedonia. Why would we pander to Greece on our list by always using "Republic of"?
OZLAWYER talk 14:17, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I support omitting "Republic of" from the short form name of Macedonia. -- DD Ting 16:06, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I've made further amendments/additions to the footnotes of the list which cover the following -
Agree to delete CIS but preserve EU as it has been regarded as far more than an ordinary international organizations, including the CIA World Factbook. -- DD Ting 06:21, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Osgoodelawyer said "You've certainly done a lot of work here, but much of it is redundant, as the preliminary information notes what countries are, for instance, overseas collectivities of France, British dependencies, and the like (which you've included in footnotes)". Well, as you're aware, most of the footnotes have already existed in the list as remarks to the countries. It's Electionworld who kindly reorganized them into footnotes. I just made some touch-ups with a few additions. If what you said (redundant) is really the case, the remarks (now footnotes) have already existed here alongside the preliminary information for more than 1 year. And it's obvious that no one has ever challenged the co-existence of both and many of us just help fine-tune them. If you really consider them redundant, I just wonder why you didn't raise this before the footnotes were created. So please do look into the background before making any comment. Thanks. -- DD Ting 14:48, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Respectfully, I'm going to have to disagree with the crazed sweeping of as much information into footnotes as possible. For one, there's a tremendously disproportionate percentage of the article contained in them. Footnotes, by their very nature, are largely peripheral details, and in some cases pretty explicitly useful information as to what is and isn't a state is being hidden waaaay down at the bottom of the article. Secondly, part of the reason an extensively laid-out rationale for how the list is constructed was put at the top was precisely so readers could assess the rubric used in the article and construct their own count of the number of countries should their purposes not correspond with the starting point of 243. There are numberous yardsticks for counting countries, ours is a good one that I'm quite fond of, admittedly, but the article is of much broader usefulness if readers can instantly see to what extent such numbers are inflated by entities many people might rightly or wrongly not consider countries. A straightforward tree at the top lets that be done quickly and respectfully of people's own opinions on such matters, rather than stashing such information in a sea of footnotes at the bottom along with largely-irrelevant (IMHO) trivia about who's in the EU and who's a Commonwealth Realm and so on. There are separate articles for those facts. This one is about constructing a definitive list of countries. Finally, while no featured article should be expected to remain static, I've always felt it prudent to be a bit more conservative when dealing with territory that's been hashed-over and thumbs-upped in the past. The Tom 22:32, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
To end the dispute, I've reverted the list to June 1 edition which seemed having no dispute by most who made comments here. -- DD Ting 07:39, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I've made minor touch-ups with the missing notes for Falkland Islands readded. Originally I also planned to revise the notes in brackets a little bit to make it look like the format that this list was previously honoured (e.g. to amend "French overseas collectivity" as "overseas collectivity of France" so as to avoid using too many adjectives). But having thought twice, I decided not to waste too much effort as the revisions would very likely be reverted by someone who do not like other to edit his "contributions" even just a slash or brackets. To all, sorry that some of my editions (as well as those by others) had caused uncertainty to this list recently. In order to prevent endless debate, I chose not to make major amendments at the moment.-- DD Ting 11:14, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
What's the justification for including Saint Helena's dependencies ( Tristan da Cunha and Ascension Island) as separate entities but not Guernsey's dependencies ( Alderney, Sark, and Herm)? I know it would seem a little weird to include an island with a population of 60 people (Herm) as a country, but Tristan da Cunha itself only has a population of approximately 280 (Sark has 610 and Alderney has 2400). Don't Guernsey's dependencies fall into pretty much the same category of entities as Saint Helena's? OZLAWYER talk 04:58, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Both Ascension Island and Tristan da Cunha are separate UK overseas territories but are administered through Saint Helena owing to their remote locations and limited population. As you can see in the [UK FCO's homepage [40], [41], [42], [43], they are listed separately in the profiles of countries and overseas territories, and have their own information pages. A notable example of their uniqueness is that both of them issue and use their own stamps and have their own local laws (you may refer to their respective articles in Wikipedia for reference). So I put them on the list again. -- DD Ting 14:20, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I changed the designation of "overseas collectivity" to that of "overseas community", as per what the article on that type of entity says. I removed the "overseas country" designation from French Polynesia, since it's listed in the top section only as an overseas collectivity (now community), even though it's officially also called an overseas country. If someone wants to redesignate it an overseas country, then the top part will have to be rewritten to indicate the dual naming. OZLAWYER talk 14:03, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
The long form name of Pitcairn Islands is "Pitcairn, Henderson, Ducie, and Oeno Islands". Please see UK FCO website and CIA World Factbook. -- DD Ting 16:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
This is a misuse of the term "sui generis." Akrotiri and Dhekelia clearly can be and are included in a wider term, Sovereign Base Areas. In fact, if you check Sovereign Base Areas you'll see that there was another one in the past, the Treaty Ports in Ireland. I don't know how to rename it, though, since they're Sovereign Base Areas, plural so "1 Sovereign Base Area on the island of Cyprus, Akrotiri and Dhekelia" doesn't work. Oz Lawyer 00:29, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
If you look into the texts of the 1921 Anglo-Irish Treaty that granted UK the right to retain control over the three treaty ports on the island of Ireland, you will notice that there had never made mention of "sovereign base areas" or even the UK sovereignty over the ports. The terms are recapitulated below for your reference -
"7. The Government of the Irish Free State shall afford to His Majesty’s Imperial Forces
(a) In the time of peace such harbour and other facilities as are indicated in the Annex hereto, or such other facilities as may from time to time be agreed between the British Government and the Government of the Irish Free State; and
(b) In time of war or of strained relations with a Foreign Power such harbour and other facilities as the British Government may require for the purposes of such defence as aforesaid.
ANNEX
The following are the specific facilities required:-
Dockyard Port at Berehaven
(a) Admiralty property and rights to be retained as at the date hereof. Harbour defences to remain in charge of British care and maintenance parties.
Queenstown
Harbour defences to remain in charge of British care and maintenance parties. Certain mooring buoys to be retained for use of His Majesty's ships.
Belfast Lough
Harbour defences to remain in charge of British care and maintenance parties.
Lough Swilly
Harbour defences to remain in charge of British care and maintenance parties."
On the other hand, in respect of A&D, the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee states that -
"ARTICLE III The Republic of Cyprus, Greece and Turkey undertake to respect the integrity of the areas retained under United Kingdom sovereignty at the time of the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus, and guarantee the use and enjoyment by the United Kingdom of the rights to be secured to it by the Republic of Cyprus in accordance with the Treaty concerning the Establishment of the Republic of Cyprus signed at Nicosia on today's date."
It's very clear that UK has sovereignty over A&D that is recognized by Cyprus, Greece and Turkey. As compared with the Treaty Ports in Ireland, I even doubt whether such ports are "sovereign base area" per se. To me, A&D is unique enough to be described (not designated) as sui generis.
-- DD Ting 18:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't agree with the POV attempts of chaning Timor-Leste to East Timor and Côte d'Ivoire to Ivory Coast; what I do agree with is that we should finally get this standardised across Wikipedia. Anyone up to organising a vote on Timor-Leste, Côte d'Ivoire, Myanmar and whichever other countries we can find for which common and official names differ? — Nightst a llion (?) 06:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
To make my point clear, I was not speaking about *this* article only, I was speaking of Wikipedia on the whole. Are we using Timor-Leste or not? It's incongruent to use Côte d'Ivoire, but not Timor-Leste... — Nightst a llion (?) 11:50, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
The debate on East Timor/Timor-Leste seems to be never-ending. I won't argue for either version, since in fullness of time, it may eventually be sorted out (I say "may", because "Burmyanmar" and "Ivory Côte" still haven't had their name sorted definitively in the English-speaking world as shown by this debate). I can think of another place though that had a similar problem: Iran (Persia). I believe that some government of Persiran had declared its official name to be Iran, but the rest of the world didn't catch on for while. Other countries with similar problems included Congo/Zaire and Haiti/St.Dominque. Of course, other countries didn't have to go through naming troubles and have their native, Spanish (or Italian) names used without controversy in English: Peurto Rico (Rich Port), Costa Rica (Rich Coast), Venezuela (Little Venice), El Salvador (the Saviour) and Ecuador (Equator). 72.27.107.50 00:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Apart from the Côte d'Ivoire and Timor-Leste, Macao is an interesting counter example. The Macao government spells its name in Portuguese (which is one of its official languages) as "Macau", but in English as "Macao" ("Macao" is also an archaic Portuguese spelling of its name). In common usage in English its spelling is split between -o and -u, but on Wikipedia the majority has opted for -u based on personal experience.
Other countries having different spellings/names include the Czech Republic/Czechia and Vietnam/Viet Nam. — Insta ntnood 19:11, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
You are correct Electionworld that the examples of Haiti and Congo are not along the same lines as East Timor (since it is about translation). My point was simpler than that. I only meant to show that a fair number of countries have had difficulty with the adoption/usage of their preferred name in English (which is along the same lines as "Ivoire Coast", since it's preferred name is "Côte d'Ivoire", but its more commonly used name (at least before it proclaimed that its name was the same in all languages) was "Ivory Coast". I'm not quite sure I understand what you meant by the Burma example, I take it you mean that the people of that country have (and still do) call their country "Myanmar" whilst the rest of the world ignorantly called it "Burma" until the military junta made "Myanmar" the official name for English as well (which is what the article on Myanmar says anway) The examples given from African countries are different since the rest of the world readily accepted the name changes without any popular debate and without any official refusal (as was the case for Haiti before France and the USA decided to recognize it). The examples I gave were all examples in which countries continued to be referred to in the media or government documents by their previous names (except maybe Zaire/Congo) for some time after they had changed their preferred name in English. My other point was, that there doesn't need to be an intense debate on "East Timor-Leste" or "Ivory Coast/Côte d'Ivoire", because most likely the name debate will sort itself out in the media and amongst governments at some point in the future (like when (or "if") Myanmar's military government loses power to a democratic party, or when one usage (e.g. "Ivory Coast" and "East Timor") becomes predominant over the other variants in media and government usage). The debate on East Timor is even a bit amusing since the etymological meaning of the name (as East Timor or Timor-Leste) means "East East" or "Eastern East". 72.27.11.32 23:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
The issue over the spelling of Myanmar actually carries with it political undertones. The United States has refused to officially adopt this spelling, but its neighbours in Southeast Asia and most other countries did so.-- Huaiwei 15:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
See Talk:List of countries by area#Ranking of non-sovereign states and Talk:List of countries by population density#Is the information in this article true? for a discussion on whether to rank countries that are not sovereign states in a ranked listing of countries by area, population, etc. Thanks. -- Polaron | Talk 17:30, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
What does this mean?
"# W and F What – Territory of Brett and his accomplices [38]"
The footnote doesn't appear to go to anything useful.
Should it be
Republic of China (Taiwan)
China (Republic of) ( Taiwan) – Republic of China (Taiwan)
or
China (Taiwan) – Republic of China (Taiwan)
or just as it was
China (Republic of) – Republic of China
I think we should do the Third since (Taiwan is a discription not apart the name (see the text of [44]. BionicWilliam 02:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
===>My two cents I think it would be most helpful to the user to mention that this entity is usually called "Taiwan." I furthermore think it would be useful to have a link for the word Taiwan, so people can read that article if they want to know more about that entity. Methinks the best solution would be something like this: Under C:
Under T:
For that matter, there should also be an explanatory note at People's Republic of China to the effect that there are two competing governments of China, there is no precise definition for what China is, and the PRC is commonly called "China" and mostly recognized as the sole legitimate Chinese state. I hope that helps. - Justin (koavf), talk, mail 17:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
re [45]. "Holy See of Vatican City" is incorrect form. They are nominally seperate entities. the Holy See is not an agency of the Vatican City. The "Republic of China" is not commonly referred to as the "Republic of China (Taiwan)". Official use does not equate common use. Everything else was just unnecessarily wordy and too much detail for this list. -- Jiang 23:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Is there any proof that Tartupaluk, aka Hans Island—is now an independent country? If so, do any countries recognize it? — Khoikhoi 04:25, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
There is some proof in print. See: Nunatsiaq News, Year 34, Number 31, September 15, 2006. Also there are copies of its proclamation of independence online in English and Danish on the Tartupaluk government website, which does not list any countries as recognizing it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.139.44.224 ( talk • contribs) 04:46, 15 September 2006.
I may be missing something, but why is the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria excluded?-- Tekleni 08:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Please take part on the ongoing debate here on list of unrecognized territories. Thank you. -- Wissahickon Creek talk 08:54, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
A recent edit tried to change "Macao" to "Macau", a change I agree with, but which I reverted due to lack of discussion on the talk page. I still have problems with the way it was decided (mostly by one user, I think who we didn't want to war with), that the "official English names as dictated by the country" would be used. First off, the "Timor-Leste" designation conflicts with WP:NCON#Dealing_with_self-identifying_terms, which states that geographical directions should be translated (and uses East Timor as the example!) This use is also clearly the one in favour in "the real world". Other terms like "Pridnestrovie" are highly unlikely to be found in English, and they really should not be used here. I argued before for using the name that is found in the article for each entity, and I again say that that is how it should go. I mean, if it is policy (maybe "guideline"--but a guideline which is followed everywhere by here) that "Timor-Leste" should be "East Timor", then the rest should also be changed to go along with it. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 14:36, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
Existing consensus in other areas of Wikipedia have agreed to use Macau for simple consistency. The arguments, pro and con, for each spelling is in the article. It doesn't need to be bashed out on every single article talk page. Please? SchmuckyTheCat 20:29, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Proposal:
All are the names of the articles on Wikipedia. If no significant objections, I'm going to change it (this is not a request for a straw poll). └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 20:40, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
Should Scotland be included as a dependancy of the United Kingdom, as it has it's own democratcally elected (by the people of Scotland) government which controls most of the internal descisions such as healthcare, education etc. The British government only decides on issues which would also affect england and Wales such as the defence of the country. Any contributions welcome as since the Vatican City/Holy See is dependant on Italy but has it's own internal government surely Scotland is no different? Donaldhenderson 15:54, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
The United Kingdom is a sovereign state. States belong to the EU and the UN not countries. States possess of territory which may or may not be a country. Nations usually inhabit a country eg the English inhabit England. Scotland is a country and it is inhabited by Scots. Ireland is one country, but divide and is governed by two sovereign states. -- Philip Baird Shearer 01:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
It pains me to say it but Ireland is an island and not a country. Perhaps this page should change its name to Sovereign States?--
Macphisto
13:47, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
The information regarding Palestine in the article is not accurate. The State of Palestine has, as far as I know, no direct connection with the Palestinian Authority, which is a body established pursuant to agreements between the Government of Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (which, of course, is also the body that proclaimed the State of Palestine). Furthermore, it is the PLO which is the permanent observer at the UN, not the State of Palestine, nor the Palestinian Authority, the latter being in fact prohibited from engaging in foreign relations under the agreements between the PLO and Israel.
However, upon proclamation of the State of Palestine in 1988, the UN General Assembly decided that the PLO observer mission should thenceforward be designated "Palestine" for the purposes of UN business in UNGAR 43/177. This did not make the State of Palestine an observer at the UN instead of the PLO, as is clear from the text of the resolution. I am not sure to what extent there is a legal relationship between the PLO and the Palestinian Authority, but I suspect it would be more correct to refer to this by simply saying that "the PA, which performs certain governmental functions in parts of the OPT, was established pursuant to agreements between Israel and the PLO" rather than by saying that the PLO exercises partial de fact control of the OPT through it. For some reason my attempts to edit the article have failed. Palmiro | Talk 00:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
As this list includes areas other than countries (sovereign states), viz...
..does anyone else feel a more accurate name for this article would be List of countries and territories or the like...? Thanks, David Kernow (talk) 00:42, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts. I was hoping that "Countries and territories" or the like might accommodate POVs as regards contentious areas, POVs that elsewhere have seen time and effort wasted over inclusions, exclusions, descriptions, etc, etc. Regards, David ( talk) 18:15, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Why are French territories other than French Polynesia and New Caledonia included? — Insta ntnood 12:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Can someone do the various (uc/lc) redirects - "states of the world" to this page and "States of Europe" to the relevant page etc. Jackiespeel 15:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
As an alternative to renaming the article List of countries and territories or something similar, I volunteer to reorganize the list so that dependent/autonomous/etc territories etc become sublists below the country with which they are associated. For example, section A of the current list:
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Republic of Abkhazia [1] |
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Islamic Republic of Afghanistan |
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Sovereign Base Areas of Akrotiri and Dhekelia (UK overseas territory) |
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Åland Islands (Autonomous province of Finland) |
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Republic of Albania |
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People's Democratic Republic of Algeria |
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Territory of American Samoa (US overseas territory) |
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Principality of Andorra |
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Republic of Angola |
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|
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Argentine Republic [2] |
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Republic of Armenia |
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Commonwealth of Australia |
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Republic of Austria |
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Republic of Azerbaijan [3] |
...would become:
(Italics indicate de facto status as a country)
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Republic of Abkhazia [1] |
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Islamic Republic of Afghanistan |
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Republic of Albania |
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People's Democratic Republic of Algeria |
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Principality of Andorra |
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Republic of Angola |
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|
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Argentine Republic [4] |
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Republic of Armenia |
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Commonwealth of Australia |
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Republic of Austria |
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Republic of Azerbaijan [5] |
...with the dependent etc territories appearing under their associated countries elsewhere in the list:
... | |
Republic of Finland
| |
... |
... | |
Kingdom of the Netherlands [6]
| |
... |
... | |
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
| |
... | |
United States of America
| |
... |
Can the above have a redirect to this article page please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.194.75.209 ( talk) 14:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC).
Can someone clarify the reason why French overseas territories are not considered countries? Quoting one of the footnotes: "The overseas regions/overseas departments of French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique and Réunion are integral part of France, and therefore not listed." The definition of "integral part" in the above quote is not clear, and it leads to confusion as to why other countries' overseas territories cannot be called such integral parts. cherkash 23:14, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I would like to change the vertical "List by country" navigational box on the right of this page to a horizontal one at the bottom. Please discuss at Template talk:Lists by country. -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 12:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Would anyone else prefer this article set out as a table? This would enable us to fill in a short list of vital statistics about each country - e.g. short name, extended name, its capital, dependencies/dependency of, population as of (date). It is my opinion that the article should be interesting in its own right, and not just a point to spring off to others. I came to this page not really to find specific countries - I doubt many have - but rather for an interesting comparison of countries, to learn capital cities, etc. Other lists are interesting in their own right because they are listed by something non-trivial, e.g. GDP, whereas an alphabetical list is just a little dull. The article as a table can still completely fulfill its current purpose.
Jameshfisher 15:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't Serbia be under the entities included in this article? - Patricknoddy 5:43pm, January 16, 2007
Reason: the inconsistency of the title: List of countries and description which also include the dependency.-- Ksyrie 23:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't see why I need to have a consensus for a change, but Kosovo is not a country. It is an autonomous province of Serbia. Autonomous provinces are not typically listed as countries. For other examples see Nakhichevan, Tatarstan, Catalonia, Xinjiang, Aosta Valley, and so forth. Obviously, Kosovo is a somewhat special case, in that its special position is guaranteed by outside powers as much as (or more than) by the constitution of Serbia, but it is still a province, and will be until it becomes de jure independent. john k 06:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I removed Kosovo from the list, because it is not an area of special sovereignity.
Nikola
15:40, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
So, I believe that Kosovo, and not only Kosovo, should be removed from the list. First of all, inclusion of special entities recognized by international treaty or agreement is a bad idea. For example, a few more that could be added to the list are South Tyrol (recognised by Treaty of Gruber-De Gasperi), Republika Srpska and Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina (recognised by Dayton Agreement) and it could be seen that the list would quickly become ridiculous. In addition, these territories are not generally considered countries. All of this should then apply to Kosovo as well, since it is not even a special entity recognized by international treaty or agreement. And, please: cherry-picking arguments for inclusion so that Kosovo stays in should not be the norm in the discussion. Nikola 22:08, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Quick survey of the pro and con arguments for which Kosovo should or shouldn't be part of this list. See [56]. Please add your name and 2-3 sentences. Also, if your position is primarily based on what you understand by country - the definition in the beginning of the article or de jure independent - please state so clearly.: Dc76 13:00, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Pros
Cons
Another suggestion - how about simply following United Nations geoscheme [57]? Nikola 15:20, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Just a preemptive FYI before I trigger the reversion gods. Saint Martin and Saint Barths were legally separated from Guadeloupe (an integral part of France) and reconstituted as separate overseas collectivities (non-integral dependent territories) by a law that took effect on February 22. The Tom 20:46, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
You may find it usefull to peruse cities that link to the different timezones. (ex. Go to UTC-5 and click what links here)
I did try to make a category for cities by UTC timezone but a CfD prevailed and it was removed... taking away a list of 5000+ cities categorized (see my back-up. There was not enough support for such a category.
Many cities currently utilize the {{ template:Infobox city}} and have a link to the related UTC timezone. Use this to your benefit. You can find a list of cities by clicking the corresponding UTC timezone. And, if ever you feel like bringing back the category we will need at least 5 to 7 people to support this. GO to my project WP:CCT and start a section to voice your opinion. When we have enough people we'll start the cat. -- CyclePat 22:38, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
According to the CIA World Factbook, Western Sahara has no official long form. Why is there an offical long form on the list? 76.205.65.198 20:35, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
This is my a proposal. I am not sure I listed Kosovo correctly. I coppied
Tamil Eelam b/c it is in the list (the first blue link) in the definition of the group of 10. See also
Talk:List of sovereign states.:
Dc76
23:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Here is my new proposal: [58]
For arguments, see also [59], [60], please.
Thank you for repling below. : Dc76 20:54, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Closure of the vote Transnistrian Moldovan Republic, abreviated to Transnistria, as explained by User:Lexicon, this is already in the article: Dc76 17:12, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
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ABK
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).