This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Colchester Castle is listed on this page as being "Privately Owned", which is incorrect. The article states ownership correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Merenta ( talk • contribs) 18:14, 20 October 2004 (UTC)
This listing should be under the Traditional Counties of England, for most of the castles were built in feudal times and before the recent changes in government administration over boundaries. Castles are as useful today as the archaic address system, whereby one can write in the Trad. Co. form. The castles had a territorial system based upon the T.C. and this article is ignorant of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ScapegoatVandal ( talk • contribs) 23:39, 11 June 2005 (UTC)
Does this page carry the same information that Category:Castles_In_England carries? Seems that there are two different areas with roughly the same information. Ianmccurdy 16:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
There is a big chunk of text on the castle page, headed 'Influence of castles in Britain' [[Castle#Influence_of_castles_in_Britain], which seems out of place on the general castle page. As it deals only with England (not Britain), from the 11th to 13th centuries, I wondered if there was any scope for moving the section onto this page. Any thoughts/suggestions? ::Supergolden:: 11:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Image:EH icon.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 05:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Would anyone object if I were to make a separate table for the castles in Greater Manchester and move into it the castles that are now in the historic county of Cheshire, etc.? Peter I. Vardy ( talk) 10:50, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Not sure of your terms of reference, if a fort is classed as a castle then you have the Roman fort in Castlefields, Manchester. Forgive me if I am way off topic.......... Phil aka Geotek ( talk) 02:10, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
In its present state, this article isn't very helpful, it's not much more than a list of names. I think maybe new tables need to be introduced with more information such as the dates of construction and perhaps the type of castle. Any thoughts on what else could be done to improve this? Nev1 ( talk) 22:25, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Should Hadlow Castle be added to the Kent section? Mjroots ( talk) 20:35, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
It's great to see Paravane giving the article some much needed TLC. The list currently includes artillery forts/Henrican castles and I was wondering what people's thoughts are on this. I'm in two minds. Castellarium Anglicanum includes them, but D. J. Cathcart King was criticised for doing so. However, he argued that as his attempt was to create a comprehensive index, it was better to be as inclusive as possible, which may be analogous to what this article should be attempting. Nev1 ( talk) 11:37, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
There seems currently to be an anomaly in that there are lists of castles for England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and the Channel Isles, together covering all of the British Isles, but not the Isle of Man. Since there are, I think, only 2 castles in the Isle of Man, ignoring mock castles, a separate list would seem inappropriate. One possibility would be to include the IOM in one of the other lists, and arguably the most appropriate would be the list for England, on the grounds of historical and of popular association. The list could be renamed List of castles in England and the Isle of Man. Since Castle Rushen in the IOM is considered one of the finest in the British Isles, it is a pity for it not to be listed somewhere, other than the global List of castles page. Does anyone have any thoughts? Paravane ( talk) 23:03, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
Taken from The Castles of Hampshire & Isle of Wight.© Geni 00:33, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Location maps would be more valuable if each site on the map could be made clickable to access Geohack mapping. This would solve the problem of providing location data for all the castle sites. Currently the whole map image is clickable to access the larger image. All that is necessary in the html is to provide the same clickable feature for each of the red/green location images, supplying the required href for each. This feature seems not to be currently available in {{ Location map~}}, but it should be very straightforward to implement. Does anyone know whether this facility is available, or has been requested, or how best to go about requesting it? Paravane ( talk) 17:21, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
{{
Location map+}}
template, which is rather different from the {{
Location map}}
used so far. See
Template talk:Location map.
Paravane (
talk)
21:07, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
Castles of which little or nothing remains include:
{{
Location map+}}
will reduce font size slightly.
Paravane (
talk)
23:05, 21 July 2011 (UTC)Example of hidden map Castles of which little or nothing remains include:
|
Mjb1981 ( talk) 16:59, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
I've just done the map for this county, and it would appear that two castles listed in this section are actually in North Yorks... Mjb1981 ( talk) 16:46, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
I've tagged this as {{ very long}} - what with all the prose, references, tables, images and maps this article now exceeds 322,000 bytes - even on my 10MB Broadband the page takes ages to load, and the edit page often crashes on submitting new contribs suggesting that even Wiki servers have some difficult with this much data. Instead of piling more are more data into the article, common sense needs applying, and the article should probably be split into smaller articles to make it more manageable for everyone. See WP:SIZERULE which recommends splitting at 100KB - this article is more than 3x that and in danger of becoming carried away with itself. Ma®©usBritish talk 09:57, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Well, I don't plan on helping with splitting, because there are a few primary contributors who are best suited to determine what needs doing precisely who should discuss it soon and come to an agreement before someone uninvolved takes an axe to the article and starts slicing it up without consensus. All I can suggest is if you split one off, you split all - anyone searching for "castles in 'X' county" either needs to be presented with one accessible page (which this article is not due to its size) or a list of ALL counties - not "counties 'A', 'F' and 'L'" whilst the rest are still muddled up in "Castles in England", because it would be confusing and sloppy. A series of articles, one per county, with a lead, map and table, would be better suited to this: a mini Castles project, in a way - with a uniform set of articles, all of which could be managed easily. Perhaps even a Portal would benefit that many articles, if it's permitted to create one for that purpose, to act as an index for all those counties. Ma®©usBritish talk 10:47, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
{{
splitfrom}}
and {{
split-to}}
on the talk pages.) --
Dr Greg
talk
13:38, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
At 256,221 bytes article is still approx. 2.5x in excess of Wiki's 100Kb (102,400 bytes) WP:SIZERULE, despite reduction attempts. Maps of castles in England by county also seems pointless per se - a disassociated page of maps, with no reference points or prose to support them - or as wiki puts it - unencyclopedic - {{ very long}} should not have been removed by a principal author, but an uninvolved or new reviewing editor, due to potential COI issues associated with the tag and authors. As it stands it is still an impractical page of too much data to load, edit, and save despite its presentation. Removal of maps has not really helped the matter.. it's like cutting your speed down from 80mph to 60mph when the limit is still 25mph - at the end of the day it's still over, and it's a bit backhanded to presume otherwise over other editors. Ma®©usBritish talk 22:07, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
<ul>
<li>Item 1</li>
<li>Item 2</li>
<li>Item 3</li>
</ul>
<table>
<tr>
<td>• Item 1</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>• Item 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>• Item 3</td>
</tr>
</table>
List | Table | |||
---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
Greetings from a tourist who has just wandered in here after seeing the signpost over at Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. First of all, I think the article looks pretty great, although I have to say I have not read it all, not even the entire intro. Its greatness in quality is matched by its greatness in size, and I agree it needs reducing. It simply takes too long to fully load, and even just resizing my browser window causes a long delay on my PC.
I have the impression, after reading the comments here, at WT:FLC, and at the VP Policy page (don't know where else discussions are ongoing), that some editors have the idea of just deleting some refs to decrease page weight. That'd clearly be unacceptable; we need good refs always. 500 refs is too many, but it's not the refs' fault; it's just a symptom of contentual obesity.
I see that a new page with separate maps has recently been started, so that the images could be extracted from there respective sections in this page. I think this doesn't help individual display of this list much, and improves its page code weight even less. It also gives us two pages, neither of which is very clear. The sum of the two is less useful than the combined whole.
How about if we rename this article from List of castles in England to the plural Lists of castles in England? Then we can more logically split off worthy sections as needed. (Are the sections English counties? There's no indication of such, except at Durham, and I'm a geographical ignoramus.) We wouldn't have to split off all the sections, just the biggest ones, where they are long enough to justify it: Herefordshire, Kent, North Yorkshire, etc., but probably not West Midlands.
This page of lists would then keep its fine intro and much of the sectional lists, but for the more heavily populated sections would link to the respective "main article", e.g., List of castles in Kent. The maps would come back to their sections where they belong (and Maps of castles in England by county deleted). This page would still shrink but give an encyclopedic treament of the topics of English castles as well as lists of castles. (The intro seems to currently talk a wee bit much about castles in general; is this a place where we could/should trim the text a little?)
FWIW: Just the thoughts of a tourist (who, I'm afraid, is unlikely to actually help, although I might wander by again and snap some photos of you sweating while you work). — JohnFromPinckney ( talk) 23:17, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Colchester Castle is listed on this page as being "Privately Owned", which is incorrect. The article states ownership correctly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Merenta ( talk • contribs) 18:14, 20 October 2004 (UTC)
This listing should be under the Traditional Counties of England, for most of the castles were built in feudal times and before the recent changes in government administration over boundaries. Castles are as useful today as the archaic address system, whereby one can write in the Trad. Co. form. The castles had a territorial system based upon the T.C. and this article is ignorant of it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ScapegoatVandal ( talk • contribs) 23:39, 11 June 2005 (UTC)
Does this page carry the same information that Category:Castles_In_England carries? Seems that there are two different areas with roughly the same information. Ianmccurdy 16:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
There is a big chunk of text on the castle page, headed 'Influence of castles in Britain' [[Castle#Influence_of_castles_in_Britain], which seems out of place on the general castle page. As it deals only with England (not Britain), from the 11th to 13th centuries, I wondered if there was any scope for moving the section onto this page. Any thoughts/suggestions? ::Supergolden:: 11:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Image:EH icon.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 05:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Would anyone object if I were to make a separate table for the castles in Greater Manchester and move into it the castles that are now in the historic county of Cheshire, etc.? Peter I. Vardy ( talk) 10:50, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Not sure of your terms of reference, if a fort is classed as a castle then you have the Roman fort in Castlefields, Manchester. Forgive me if I am way off topic.......... Phil aka Geotek ( talk) 02:10, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
In its present state, this article isn't very helpful, it's not much more than a list of names. I think maybe new tables need to be introduced with more information such as the dates of construction and perhaps the type of castle. Any thoughts on what else could be done to improve this? Nev1 ( talk) 22:25, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Should Hadlow Castle be added to the Kent section? Mjroots ( talk) 20:35, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
It's great to see Paravane giving the article some much needed TLC. The list currently includes artillery forts/Henrican castles and I was wondering what people's thoughts are on this. I'm in two minds. Castellarium Anglicanum includes them, but D. J. Cathcart King was criticised for doing so. However, he argued that as his attempt was to create a comprehensive index, it was better to be as inclusive as possible, which may be analogous to what this article should be attempting. Nev1 ( talk) 11:37, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
There seems currently to be an anomaly in that there are lists of castles for England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and the Channel Isles, together covering all of the British Isles, but not the Isle of Man. Since there are, I think, only 2 castles in the Isle of Man, ignoring mock castles, a separate list would seem inappropriate. One possibility would be to include the IOM in one of the other lists, and arguably the most appropriate would be the list for England, on the grounds of historical and of popular association. The list could be renamed List of castles in England and the Isle of Man. Since Castle Rushen in the IOM is considered one of the finest in the British Isles, it is a pity for it not to be listed somewhere, other than the global List of castles page. Does anyone have any thoughts? Paravane ( talk) 23:03, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
Taken from The Castles of Hampshire & Isle of Wight.© Geni 00:33, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
Location maps would be more valuable if each site on the map could be made clickable to access Geohack mapping. This would solve the problem of providing location data for all the castle sites. Currently the whole map image is clickable to access the larger image. All that is necessary in the html is to provide the same clickable feature for each of the red/green location images, supplying the required href for each. This feature seems not to be currently available in {{ Location map~}}, but it should be very straightforward to implement. Does anyone know whether this facility is available, or has been requested, or how best to go about requesting it? Paravane ( talk) 17:21, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
{{
Location map+}}
template, which is rather different from the {{
Location map}}
used so far. See
Template talk:Location map.
Paravane (
talk)
21:07, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
Castles of which little or nothing remains include:
{{
Location map+}}
will reduce font size slightly.
Paravane (
talk)
23:05, 21 July 2011 (UTC)Example of hidden map Castles of which little or nothing remains include:
|
Mjb1981 ( talk) 16:59, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
I've just done the map for this county, and it would appear that two castles listed in this section are actually in North Yorks... Mjb1981 ( talk) 16:46, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
I've tagged this as {{ very long}} - what with all the prose, references, tables, images and maps this article now exceeds 322,000 bytes - even on my 10MB Broadband the page takes ages to load, and the edit page often crashes on submitting new contribs suggesting that even Wiki servers have some difficult with this much data. Instead of piling more are more data into the article, common sense needs applying, and the article should probably be split into smaller articles to make it more manageable for everyone. See WP:SIZERULE which recommends splitting at 100KB - this article is more than 3x that and in danger of becoming carried away with itself. Ma®©usBritish talk 09:57, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
Well, I don't plan on helping with splitting, because there are a few primary contributors who are best suited to determine what needs doing precisely who should discuss it soon and come to an agreement before someone uninvolved takes an axe to the article and starts slicing it up without consensus. All I can suggest is if you split one off, you split all - anyone searching for "castles in 'X' county" either needs to be presented with one accessible page (which this article is not due to its size) or a list of ALL counties - not "counties 'A', 'F' and 'L'" whilst the rest are still muddled up in "Castles in England", because it would be confusing and sloppy. A series of articles, one per county, with a lead, map and table, would be better suited to this: a mini Castles project, in a way - with a uniform set of articles, all of which could be managed easily. Perhaps even a Portal would benefit that many articles, if it's permitted to create one for that purpose, to act as an index for all those counties. Ma®©usBritish talk 10:47, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
{{
splitfrom}}
and {{
split-to}}
on the talk pages.) --
Dr Greg
talk
13:38, 29 August 2011 (UTC)
At 256,221 bytes article is still approx. 2.5x in excess of Wiki's 100Kb (102,400 bytes) WP:SIZERULE, despite reduction attempts. Maps of castles in England by county also seems pointless per se - a disassociated page of maps, with no reference points or prose to support them - or as wiki puts it - unencyclopedic - {{ very long}} should not have been removed by a principal author, but an uninvolved or new reviewing editor, due to potential COI issues associated with the tag and authors. As it stands it is still an impractical page of too much data to load, edit, and save despite its presentation. Removal of maps has not really helped the matter.. it's like cutting your speed down from 80mph to 60mph when the limit is still 25mph - at the end of the day it's still over, and it's a bit backhanded to presume otherwise over other editors. Ma®©usBritish talk 22:07, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
<ul>
<li>Item 1</li>
<li>Item 2</li>
<li>Item 3</li>
</ul>
<table>
<tr>
<td>• Item 1</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>• Item 2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>• Item 3</td>
</tr>
</table>
List | Table | |||
---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
Greetings from a tourist who has just wandered in here after seeing the signpost over at Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. First of all, I think the article looks pretty great, although I have to say I have not read it all, not even the entire intro. Its greatness in quality is matched by its greatness in size, and I agree it needs reducing. It simply takes too long to fully load, and even just resizing my browser window causes a long delay on my PC.
I have the impression, after reading the comments here, at WT:FLC, and at the VP Policy page (don't know where else discussions are ongoing), that some editors have the idea of just deleting some refs to decrease page weight. That'd clearly be unacceptable; we need good refs always. 500 refs is too many, but it's not the refs' fault; it's just a symptom of contentual obesity.
I see that a new page with separate maps has recently been started, so that the images could be extracted from there respective sections in this page. I think this doesn't help individual display of this list much, and improves its page code weight even less. It also gives us two pages, neither of which is very clear. The sum of the two is less useful than the combined whole.
How about if we rename this article from List of castles in England to the plural Lists of castles in England? Then we can more logically split off worthy sections as needed. (Are the sections English counties? There's no indication of such, except at Durham, and I'm a geographical ignoramus.) We wouldn't have to split off all the sections, just the biggest ones, where they are long enough to justify it: Herefordshire, Kent, North Yorkshire, etc., but probably not West Midlands.
This page of lists would then keep its fine intro and much of the sectional lists, but for the more heavily populated sections would link to the respective "main article", e.g., List of castles in Kent. The maps would come back to their sections where they belong (and Maps of castles in England by county deleted). This page would still shrink but give an encyclopedic treament of the topics of English castles as well as lists of castles. (The intro seems to currently talk a wee bit much about castles in general; is this a place where we could/should trim the text a little?)
FWIW: Just the thoughts of a tourist (who, I'm afraid, is unlikely to actually help, although I might wander by again and snap some photos of you sweating while you work). — JohnFromPinckney ( talk) 23:17, 5 September 2011 (UTC)