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And what about Tino Rossi, Alla Pugacheva and Nana Mouskouri??? Everybody with more than 250 million records sold.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Migang2g ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
-- Migang2g ( talk) 18:10, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I have seen,yesterday,that Lady Gaga ha sold 55 milion records and was written at the last table(50 to 75 milion) ... why she isn't written on the table now? AriandaGAGA ( talk) 21:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC) AriandaGAGA
She was removed because her claim was backed up by her own wikipedia page. As these pages are prone to having inflated figures added in by the fans of the music artist they cannot be used for this. You can see the box at the top of the page for more information about what sort of sources can be used for this page. Hitthat ( talk) 21:20, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Tank you for the answer ... but can someone do a research about what have she really sold worldwide? AriandaGAGA ( talk) 06:08, 13 April 2010 (UTC) AriandaGAGA
Just looking at her Cert's on her page, I would say that 25 million records would be realistic. Due to the type of artist she is her fans tend to buy digital singles rather than albums, which gives a large boost to her record sales. Hitthat ( talk) 10:21, 13 April 2010 (UTC) wow ... thank you! well ... now i'll pray one day she will be written here AriandaGAGA ( talk) 12:32, 13 April 2010 (UTC) AriandaGAGA
-- GagaLittleMonster ( talk) 09:17, 17 May 2010 (UTC)Um, i believe this is a reliable source: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/lady-gaga-sells-out-around-the-globe-with-her-2010-monster-ball-tour-and-announces-2011-north-american-dates-2010-05-10 So i think she sold approximately 50+ million records in a year and a half. Even if it's not reliable, she'll sure make the list in a year or something.
Here's a more reliable source, the most actually, her own UK site: http://ladygaga.co.uk/news.php?item=242 I think it's about time she was added, and if you're requesting a single figure, this means she has sold 60+ million records.-- Hussein Ibrahim ( talk) 12:53, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Note that Grein states The digital tracks from the album have sold a combined total of more than 25 million units, which doesn't necessarily mean that he speaks of singles' sales only. The tracks from The Fame Monster have been downloaded 25 million times; in other words, if I want to have the entire album (The Fame Monster) in Digital-format, I download every single track individually. And that's what Grein means in his statement, he doesn't refer to only the tracks that have been released as singles. So, the tracks on The Fame Monster that get downloaded by consumers and are not released as singles are counted towards the sales of the album, and even the single-release-titles which are downloaded directly from the album as here are counted towards the sales of the album. Anyways, I'm currently in search of a reliable source which states Gaga's sales as a single figure, not in two figures, one for singles and one for albums. If someone comes across a source claiming a logical 50 or 55 million (for albums and singles combined), we could put her up on the list as she will soon collect a lot more certifications that she currently has, but again the source should state one figure only.-- Harout72 ( talk) 22:56, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, so far RIAA's available certifications for Gaga's singles don't suggest anything remotely close to 22 million; however, I believe very soon RIAA's going to issue new certifications for her singles as well as re-certify her older releases, which may help her certified singles easily surpass the 15 million mark, but again I strongly doubt that it will bring it anywhere near 20 million. Worldwide, I'm sure the actual-sales of her singles has already reached and even surpassed 22 million, but just in US, is not likely. Anyways, as I mentioned above, I'm willing to put her up on the list with some 50 or 55 million (single-figure-claim), as I realize that lot of her records have yet to be certified and re-certified and with this pace she's selling her records, she'll definitely achieve 50-55 million records soon, but for now, the figures that are being tossed about are simply figures for marketing purposes.-- Harout72 ( talk) 04:08, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I think I did state that her worldwide actual-singles-sales should have surpassed 22 million, I never said that just because her certified Singles' tally from the main markets comes up to 16.9 million is necessarily that's what her actuals sales should look like too. And I'm well aware of how certifications getare issued, as I have also stated above that lot of her records have yet to be certified and re-certified. Also note that RIAA certifies physical records based on shipments minus returned units, therefore, it takes a little long for certifications of physical records to appear in the databases since it takes sometime to subtract the returned units from the shipped units and determine what the actual sales are. Also, if multiple sales-levels are simultaneously certified, only one audit certification fee is charged, and the fee is only $350.00. Not a big deal for major record companies, especially when they constantly use the number of Gold and Platinum awards received by their established artists to promote upcoming materials. I haven't looked at those US singles sales yet, which you have posted above, but if that's the case, then Gaga's sales are more impressive than I initially thought. But again, over 50 million singles in sales as claimed by news services which is given to them by her record company is clearly a promotional figure.-- Harout72 ( talk) 15:48, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Michael Jackson 300m figure must be deleted. Since his dead Michael Jackson has sold more than 60 million records (that doesn't includes videos, ringtones...). That includes approximately 9 million albums in the United States and 24 million albums outside US (worldwide total: 33 million albums), 12.9 million track downloads in the United States and 13,6 million paid downloads outside US (worldwide total: 26,5 million). How Michael Jackson Made $1 Billion Since His Death. Only last year (2009) in US Michael Jackson sold 8,286,000 albums and 12,355,000 digital tracks (His total digital track sales from 7/4/2004-1/3/2010 were 19,225,000 units sold). Nielsen SoundScan 2009 U.S. year-end sales report In UK since his dead Michael Jackson has sold 1.54m singles and 2.77m albums, a grand total of 4.31m sales. 4m British sales commemorate Jackson's departure. etc. etc. In table we have 3 figures for Michael Jackson: 300m, 350m and 750m and Jackson is only (!?) artist with 3 figures. At the time of Jackson dead 300m figure was low end in the first place and now with his massive recent sale that figure is completely outdated. 350m is also outdated but until we don' get newer figure from reliable source we can stick to 350m and 750m figures. BTW I would like to point out that 7 months ago Elvis' 300m figure was replaced in table with inflated 600m figure here and that went without discussion so... -- Z.K. HAL ( talk) 16:12, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
All I have to say WOW, you really are in denial as most Jackon's fans are. I am not going to remove Jackson's 300 million because if we are going to remove the 300 million then we might as well remove the 750 million also because the latter is more incorrect than the former can ever be. I may not have all the certifications from every single market in the world for Jackson, but I assure you that I have 85-90% of the certifications that cover his sales, and yet his certified sales is an ocean apart from the 300 million figure. And don't be complaining about putting hours in discussions in the past, you are here once every six months doing nothing but criticizing my hard work. You don't even seem to realize what kind of time and effort I put in to keep this article honest, I have things to do of my own, but I'm not insulting others because it may sometimes take long time for some editors to understand things they're not familiar with. As for the certified sales, the only thing that needs to be corrected is Australia's certified sales as the platinum-award-level in Australia before 1989 was 50,000, and that's going to bring down Australia's certified sales for all artists including Jackason's. Anything else that you see that is wrong that perhaps needs a correction, bring it to my attention in a calm and friendly manner, do not shout at me. If you don't have anything normal to say to me or about my hard work, I suggest you to report to administrators about my work. And finally don't expect me to reply to your messages if you are going to behave this way.-- Harout72 ( talk) 19:42, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Harout72 all I have to say WOW. I will remind you once again that you were the person who put completely wrong figures for US certifications ( here) and after my complaint about that you attacked me, insulted me but at the end after xy hours, days of discussion you realised that I was right and you and all your reliable friends were wrong and that is only ONE example of nonsense from your ORIGINAL RESEARCH which I corrected. Read again complete discussion ( Wrong and/or questionable certified sales figures!), and now you are saying that I am here once every six months doing NOTHING but criticizing your hard work!?!?! I left this because regardless source and arguments you don't allow anyone who doesn't share your POV to do a single edit. Regarding known certified sales mentioned in this article I will repeat: this article was and still is full of wrong certification figures. Fact is that you can put whatever you want in it without discussion, even wrong calculations (certification figures) based on your original research. If I correct only 1 certification figure you will revert it, and if I bring wrong figures to your attention you will insult me at first (by default as you did last year in every our discussion) and then in the best case scenario after xy hours, days of discussion you will realize your mistake(s) and then you (I repeat YOU) will make an edit in article, so basically you act as an owner of this. I am not an idiot to bring to your attention your mistakes and then you will make an edit and take credit for my hard work and then after few months you will tell me that I am doing NOTHING but criticizing YOUR (?!) hard work. As I said before I am busy at the moment but in next few weeks (in worst case months) I will bring this issue to administrators attention and among others I will show that you are using certification figures - calculate figures (WP:OR) to discredit (delete from article) the numbers quoted in reliable sources but only for certain artists (I have big list of names). You are making decisions about what is reliable source, taking ownership of the article, and overriding verifiable facts with original research which is in most cases based on your completely wrong assumptions. -- Z.K. HAL ( talk) 23:56, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Z.K. Hal, I really hope you stop harping on the same thing once and for all. As I mentioned above, if you see there is something needs an attention, a certain market's certification, bring it to my attention properly. This kind of behavior is not helping me or you or anybody else here. By the way, all artists get the same treatment. And no, I'm not using certified sales to discredit claimed figures, but those claimed figures that are awfully inflated get discredited automatically once the certified sales are posted. In the end, certified sales don't lie but inflated claimed figures do. Those artists who've begun their career after 1980 especially, their certified sales and their claimed figures should not be as far apart as Jackson's 750 million and his available certified sales are, because developed markets have had certification-schemes since then, and developed markets are the ones generating 80-90% of record sales.
Of course you're free to bring the certified sales to the attention of any administrators, I'm not; however, sure if they will view it as Original Research. In fact, WP:OR does clearly state here: This policy allows routine calculations, such as adding numbers, converting units, or calculating a person's age, provided editors agree that the arithmetic and its application correctly reflect the sources. And conversions of Gold/Platinum certification-awards is not OR as the links to award-levels to different time periods are included below the main table as "footnotes". WP:OR also states: The term "original research" refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and stories—not already published by reliable sources. -- Harout72 ( talk) 01:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I miss Bing Crosby on this list. In his article, there is a mention of "half a billion records in circulation". This may have been mostly uncertified sales (as noted in the meager RIAA certifications note), but there must be some more info?-- Paracel63 ( talk) 17:00, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
The Rock band Rush (Toronto Canada) have now surpasssed 50 million units of worldwide sales. The new documentary RUSH: Beyond the lighted Stage, released june 2010 state in fact the only the Beatles and The Rolling Stones have had more consecutive Gold or better albums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Youngbowieorder ( talk • contribs) 14:58, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
And let's only count their album sales (LP, CD, cassette, 8-track, these will all count as records) and their single sales (CD single, 45's, 12 inch, cassingle, also counted as records). Let's not count their DVD or videocassette sales. Speaking in terms of fairness, it would not be consistent to count their DVD/video sales but not count DVD/video sales by other acts.
| Ferdi Tayfur || Turkiye || 1967–present || Arabesk || 50-60 million [1] |- http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdi_Tayfur_%28m%C3%BCzisyen%29 http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BCrkiye_men%C5%9Feli_alb%C3%BCmlerin_sat%C4%B1%C5%9F_listesi Wikitürkçe ( talk) 12:12, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I've found a Swedish language source which states 60 million sales, which seems more realistic than 70 million, after looking at the certifications. Norrköpings Tidningar newspaper source. Mattg82 ( talk) 01:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
I have updated the source as well as the estimated sales figure. As soon as we get a positive comment as to how reliable second source is, I will also include that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.-- Harout72 ( talk) 22:24, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Oricon reported this year that J-Pop singer Namie Amuro already sold 56.6 million copies since 1992. [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.24.112.182 ( talk) 17:40, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
As you can see, tha article says that namie has already sold 56.6 million copies since 1992. Amuro formely was part of the girlband Super Monkey's from 1992 to 1995, when she starts solo career. Probably this number includes Super Monkey's sales and her overseas sales, wich the sales is allowed by avex. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.24.31.138 ( talk) 14:10, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Are Madonna's certified sales in the UK including Who's That Girl and Evita?? Most worlwide certification database (including RIAA) credited both as Madonna album. Official book British Hit Singles & Albums also credits Madonna for that albums, although BPI website itself does not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.123.185.148 ( talk) 17:51, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
I can't find any results for Who's That Girl. BPI's system won't accept any apostrophes, I checked it with or without it, and nothing. Whether with "Title" or "Keyword", nothing. I must be missing something, if you can find it.-- Harout72 ( talk) 19:47, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Got it, good job.-- Harout72 ( talk) 20:53, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
To administrator of site datas: Maiden sold more than 80 mln albums, source http://www.ironmaiden.com/index.php?categoryid=8&p2_articleid=1253 - EMI states that during the 30 years period of collaboration, major label (EMI) sold more than 80 mln IM albums worldwide - that,s extremelly legal site-news from band's official www. Please, change the band's position. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.147.116.31 ( talk) 15:35, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Check these out:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/music/3110170/Iron-Maiden-frontman-on-keeping-it-real-after-35-years-at-the-top.html http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv-entertainment/music/2008/06/27/interview-iron-maiden-115875-20622203/ http://www.smh.com.au/news/gig-reviews/iron-maiden/2008/01/31/1201714134012.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amanloop ( talk • contribs) 09:45, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Especially the Sun source should be considered highly reliable as their current ranking in sales is based on an article of the same newspaper 2 years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amanloop ( talk • contribs) 09:41, 26 August 2010 (UTC) Amanloop ( talk) 09:58, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Bear in mind, Amanloop, that I and some other editors have worked hard to set some basic rules to follow and avoid inflations in sales figures which is quite often practiced by record companies. Therefore, since the last time you and I have had a discussion, my approach may seem a little different but I assure you that I am only doing what's best to have a proper list. And you can find those main guidelines that you're after at the top of this page in the box, The list is frequently edited in good faith; however, sales figures published by reliable sources may need to be verified with certification databases to avoid inflated figures. Artists without sufficient certifications to support published claimed figures may not be added to the list. Exceptions may be made in certain circumstances. I hope that clears things up for you a bit.-- Harout72 ( talk) 22:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
85 million records stated by The New York Times is definitely more realistic than 100 million in albums sales (only) as claimed by some other reliable sources. However, I'd like to wait and see the number of certifications Iron Maiden is going to collect for The Final Frontier. Within the next few weeks or months, we should be able to see certifications popping up for their brand new material, and if it looks promising enough, I will replace the 70 million with 85 million (as stated by The New York Times), but for now, we should keep them where they are.-- Harout72 ( talk) 16:24, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
-- Deathmyname ( talk) 01:57, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I am sorry to say, but lot of what you have typed above is rather unclear. And, yes, the certifications are a solid way of determining whether or not the claimed figures are true. In other words, if a news service claims that a band has sold 100 million records, that means one would expect to see at least 50-60 million in certified sales. Having that said, we are not looking to find 90-100 million in certified sales when the claimed figure is 100 million. In the case of Iron Maiden, their certified sales are way below 20 million from above markets, which represent good 75% of all the global sales. So yes, 70 million in records (as claimed by The Sun is as logical as it can get for Iron Maiden.-- Harout72 ( talk) 04:24, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for discussing. Robert, in the case of Iron Maiden, yes we can rely on certifications to determine and see whether the claimed figure by their record company is a true figure or is it just a figure tossed about to promote an upcoming material. And I say in the case of Iron Maiden, because by 1980s (and that's when Iron Maiden have begun releasing their records) certification schemes have already been established by most larger markets, see the establishment years here. Again, note that we are not looking to find 70 million in certified sales when the claimed figure itself is 70 million, we are only looking to find some 50-60% of the actual sales certified, and that's claerly not the case with Iron Maiden. Robert, you are right about EMI having far better idea than someone like me who simply is forced to depend on certifications, but the problem is that EMI is not going to announce the true figure to the fans of Iron Maiden as inflated figures always seem more attractive and impressive, which at the same time creates this urge within fans to go out and purchase the upcoming release of the band/artist without questioning whether or not the new record might really be as good. Inflated figures are a well practiced tool by record companies. While, what I'm stating may sound like an opinion, the certifications, on the other hand, never lie. And Iron Maiden doesn't have enough of it to suggest anything even close to 70 million, let alone 100 million. As for your suggestion on how to search, doing it this way or simply Videos and Albums separately, doesn't change the number of the certifications that come up. The certified sales, by the way, in the main table on the list, are all posted by me. I post them separately only on the discussion page to make it cleared and more detailed. -- Harout72 ( talk) 02:23, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Robert, the Videos (16), and Albums (13), that is 29 together just as when you do a search for all certifications. And where in your search do you see that The Final Frontier has been certified? It has not been certified by RIAA yet.-- Harout72 ( talk) 02:53, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I'm making an assumption. Question first: where can I find a listing of how much each other "certification cartel's" gold and platinum certs are for? My assumption is that they are the same figures the RIAA uses. Thanks, Rob ROBERTMFROMLI TALK/ CNTRB 03:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Excuse me for saying this, but your assumptions/calculations are terrible. I don't think you are at all familiar with certified sales or with the certification-award-levels. I don't need to make this sound aggressive but my calculations above are quite detailed. But if you'd like to give it a try, you can find the certification-award-levels for each market they can be found on the list here at the footnotes. I uploaded my own report that I have done on Iron Maiden's certified sales, if you're interested what the figures should look like for each album released in each market, then here it is.-- Harout72 ( talk) 03:19, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
How are your calculations 100% correct? :) And I would very much appreciate it if you didn't assume anything like ownership of the article as nothing of that kind is happening here. Also, you might want to look at the top of this discussion page where it states: The list is frequently edited in good faith; however, sales figures published by reliable sources may need to be verified with certification databases to avoid inflated figures. Artists without sufficient certifications to support published claimed figures may not be added to the list. As you can see, I have worked on this page for a very long time along with some other editors, and relying on certifications is the best way to avoid filling this page with inflated figures. In the same vein, at the top of the list it states: Note: Although this list largely relies on claimed figures by highly reliable sources, some of the figures may need further examination to avoid inflated sales figures which is frequently practiced by record companies for promotional purposes. With regards to the RIAA's earlier certification-levels, before 1989 the certification-levels for singles were Gold=1,000,000, Platinum=2,000,000, for albums the levels were the same as they are now. By the way, your sources 1, 2, 3 are not acceptable for this list as all of the sources this page uses are highly reliable sources. And only one of your sources is weakly reliable, the 3rd one. Having said that, artists' official sites are not third party sources; therefore, they cannot be used. -- Harout72 ( talk) 04:08, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
You really don't have to provide sources here, that is not the issue here. The issue here is that Iron Maiden have not even sold 70 million records which is our current source states but it's more bearable than 100 million. 100 million in record sales is simply overblown. I'm not taking ownership here nor am I instructing anyone anything, both the discussion page and the list provide enough information for editors to know that sales figures here for this page are examined. Iron Maiden at RIAA site doesn't have singles certified, so I'm not sure what you mean by As for your math, RIAA has NotB at Platinum or 2 million - you have it listed at 1 million. Now if you still think I am being unfair and biased, you can simply report my actions and if administrators believe my detailed explanation is false, then I'll stand aside and let them move Iron Maiden into higher brackets. But that will, of course, violate WP:Consensus which I will not tolerate. I believe, I have put awful lot of time and effort in keeping this list honest; unfortunately, I don't think you appreciate that; therefore, you should try and get me stop editing this page as I'm sure that is what you are aiming at. By the way, those sources that claim 100 million in album sales only, should not even be looked at, we should only use sources that claim records, meaning albums, singles, videos. 100 million in album sales makes it even more unrealistic.-- Harout72 ( talk) 05:22, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
I think I have stated that the levels of the albums before 1989 were the same as now: Gold=500,000, Platinum=1,000,000, se this RIAA page please here. . It was the levels of the singles that were different.This page clearly explains that record sales are to be examined, and that is what I'm demonstrating here. And by reverting my edits, you will be in violation with what the top of this page states The list is frequently edited in good faith; however, sales figures published by reliable sources may need to be verified with certification databases to avoid inflated figures. I am not doing anything other than what is being suggested by the page. The certified sales suggest that Iron maiden have not sold more than 70 million records, and we have a highly reliable source currently supporting that claim.-- Harout72 ( talk) 05:46, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
And I'm not sure why you ask me this: if The UK Telegraph is a valid source for Mariah Carey, then why not for Iron Maiden? as I never said anything about Telegraph. I said, certified sales do not suggest anything over 70 million, and we have a reliable source for that currently. And what you mean by By reverting my edit, you were in violation of consensus? There has never been a consensus here, there have been edit-wars, but no consensus. I don't think there is anything more to say here. By the way, I have never been taken to ANI before for my record analysis. -- Harout72 ( talk) 06:18, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
And I politely explained to you that there has never been a consensus on moving Iron Maiden into higher brackets. We gain consensus here by examining the record sales with certified sales, and this can be seen in almost all discussions. I am not sure why that seemed as though I was backing away from my own suggestion. I'm also not sure what discussion you keep referring to by Mariah Carey and Telegraph. I personally think that we need a third opinion here, and it must come from someone who's familiar with how the music industry is being operated. Perhaps, we could ask Kww, who often edits music industry related articles.-- Harout72 ( talk) 07:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Now let's read this here together, and I have posted this here in this very discussion at the top, in the beginning, The Sun had printed in October of 2008 that Iron Maiden had sold 70 million records (that is Albums, singles, videos), and now just 22 months later in August of 2010 The Sun has printed an obviously inflated figure of 100 million in album sales (only). Now you tell me if you can make heads from tales. I hope you see now, why we need to analyze record sales. I honestly do not know what more I can say here, it's quite late and all I can say that I stand firm by what I've been saying throughout this discussion, Iron Maiden could not have sold 100 million records, and that is my final statement. It's up to you now, if you want RFC or third opinion.-- Harout72 ( talk) 07:28, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
You don't have my consensus to move Iron Maiden into a higher bracket. Therefore, it's up to you, I have provided detailed sourced explanation throughout this entire discussion as to why I think Iron Maiden could not have sold 100 million records. I don't know why you believe that getting the third person involved is necessarily going to get Iron Maiden moved upwards on the list. We definitely, need a third opinion here as we've been getting nowehere. If you'd like, I could ask Kevin (Kww) to state his opinion on here.-- Harout72 ( talk) 07:43, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
You obviously don't know how the consensus work, it's not more votes against fewer votes, you might want to refer to WP:Consensus. We all have to come to a single understanding by discussing the issues at hand. I have already provided a very logical and detailed explanation as to why Iron Maiden has not sold 100 million records, all of which you have ignored including my own detailed analysis. I have said it before and I'll say it again, this page informs editors that claimed figures may need to be examined through certifications; in other words, I'm not demonstrating here something that has not been said. The Sun had not printed an outdated figure in 2008, The Sun's claim is a realistic figure at 70 million. And when I said the third opinion, I meant someone who understands the music industry, and most of those editors you keep speaking of are not well educated about how record sales are operated, and the third opinion would help you and others see it perhaps more clearly. As I stated earlier, I stand firm by what I've been stating; therefore, you may turn this to either AN/I or Rfc, your choice. -- Harout72 ( talk) 16:56, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Look I don't mean to offend you but you're not even aware that RIAA is the certifying association for US only, having said that, this statement by The New York Times By the end of last week, more than 800,000 copies of “The Final Frontier” had been shipped to retailers around the world, said Rod Smallwood, Iron Maiden’s longtime manager talks about worldwide shipment not the US shipment only, and 800,000 units are not going to make a big difference when we are dealing with over 50 million units missing out of the claimed 100 million records. And I never said that the Telegraph is not a reliable source, I'm simply against the claim figure that they use within their article. I'll tell you what, let's do this, since I'm against the 100 million in sales and you are against the continued use of the 70 million, why don't we update Iron Maiden's sales figure by taking it up to 85 million in sales as claimed by The New York Times. I think that's a fair suggestion, and I think you kind of were suggesting that too above, correct?-- Harout72 ( talk) 02:13, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I hope 85 million suits everyone, because 100 million is something I can't even glance at with only that much in certified sales. Anyways, hope The Frontal Frontier sells a lot more than it already has so it will narrow down the gap between the claimed figure and their certified sales. Cheers.-- Harout72 ( talk) 02:39, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
They've sold over 100 million albums, not 50 million records, besides in you source from FOX news it says: "in the '70s, with Black Sabbath, you sold more than 50 million records" like they sold 50 million in the 70s and after that it says "Then in the '80s", it might be saying that they had only sold 50 when they were in the seventies, also your source is talking about sales when Ozzy Osbourne was in the band only and it doesn't say the total sales by 2007 when it was published. I have source from BBC News that says that by 2009 they've sold over 100 million albums since their fromation in 1968. Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8075397.stm -- Dethmyname ( talk) 14:42, 22 August 2010
Ok First of all you have plenty of musician in your 100-199 list, that don't even have a single certification, even if they were from the 50's, second most of the sources like the BBC, mtv and others says that they've sold 100 million albums, so i don't know why you shoudn't believe this when i'm giving you a highly reliable source from 2009 by the BBC. Many of bands sold albums by other labels in different countries, so that may seem like a problem for the recording industries to qualify the album sales, besides when you wrote about the large european market, you have also put in your list artist like Barry White, The Carpenters, Dolly Parton etc.. and other musicians like theme from the 70's or 60's that have one certification of gold in one or two countries or no certifications. Black Sabbath also sold cassettes like many of these artist, and that also may seem difficult for the recording companies to verify all the total albums, cd's, or cassettes sales. -- Dethmyname ( talk) 19:59, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
It was brought to my attention by Petergriffin that Tina Turner doesn't have enough certifications to support her so called 180 million in record-sales. I went over Tina Turner's available certifications, and as pointed out by Petergriffin correctly, Turner truly doesn't have enough certification which one would expect to see for a figure like 180 million. Here are the certifications:
Above, we have 5,014,000 in certified singles-sales (French actual-sales is included), 27,649,694 in certified album-sales (French actual-sales is included), and 310,000 in certified videos-sales. Total of 32,973,694, and that clearly would not turn into anything huge, even if we had the Australian certified sales (the database of which starts from 1997) and the Japanese certified sales (the database of which starts from 2003). Having said that, I believe it's clear that Tina Turner could no have sold 180 million records as claimed by our currently provided two sources. Therefore, we should look for reliable sources (preferably with recent dates) which claim much lower record sales for Turner as I'm quite sure her actual sales should not be anywhere beyond 100 or 120 million maximum based on what her available certifications suggest. -- Harout72 ( talk) 22:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I can't find anything lower either that represent her entire record sales, not just albums. Oh well, I guess we'll have to live with the 180 million in record sales, because removing Tina from the list will not be fair.-- Harout72 ( talk) 22:00, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I've seen the second one already as Mattg82 posted that here above a few days ago, but it only speaks of album sales (not records), it's not very useful. As for Oprah, I would not consider it very reliable, at least not for a list like ours which is strictly supported by prestigious news services for the most part. But 100 million (singles, albums, videos combined) is correct for Tina. I hope we find something reliable.-- Harout72 ( talk) 17:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
People Magazine said that Tina Turner has sold more than 80 million records worldwide. Although this article was posted on December 04, 2000, I'm really sure that her record sales do not increase significantly since. Bluesatellite ( talk) 03:38, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Has Tina Turner really outsold Whitney Houston? Whitney is circling in on 3 diamond albums in the U.S. alone: "The Bodyguard" (diamond), "Whitney Houston" (diamond), and "Whitney" (almost diamond) at 9 million, but no doubtly will be diamond at 10 million soon enough. Worldwide for these albums: "The Bodyguard" has sold 44 million, "Whitney Houston" 25 million, and "Whitney" 20 million. I think Tina's best selling album, "Private Dancer" (which I like), is at 20 million worldwide. That's on par with Whitney Houston's third best selling mega-album. And once you factor in Whitney's other huge sellers: "I'm Your Baby Tonight" (12 million); "The Greatest Hits" (10 million); "Your Love Is My Love" (10 million)"; the gospel album "The Preacher's Wife" (6 million); plus several greatest hits albums released outside the US and "I Look To You". Also, the album "Just Whitney" outsold Tina's albums like "Twenty Four Seven" and "Wildest Dreams". Then there's Whitney's singles, which there have been a trillion high selling ones, and need we mention the sales of "I Will Always Love You"? I like Tina so this is nothing against her, but I find it hard to believe she has outsold Whitney Houston. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 ( talk) 00:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Hello, thanks for your reply. This may be pretty long so please forgive me. I have looked around and, yeah, you are correct, not too much out there mentioning Tina Turner's actual album sales. The websites I looked at that did mention her album sales, had her total worldwide sales at 55-60 million. This actually sounds about right. I now believe my original statement of "Private Dancer" selling 20 million worldwide, which is under Wikipedia's "List of best-selling albums worldwide", is incorrect. Several websites I looked at put the worldwide sales of that album at 11-12 million. This would make sense because at the website RIAA.com (the official organization for US album sales), they have "Private Dancer" at 5x platinum in the US (5 million sold). That would mean she would have had to sell another 15 million in the rest of the world for that album to be at 20 million, which isn't likely. But selling another 5-6 million in the rest of the world seems very likely. This album is probably indeed at 11 million total sales worldwide; and this is Tina's best selling album, so not nearly likely she's at 180 million album and single sales.
Tina Turner's sales listed at 180 million needs to be changed. She has not sold more than Whitney, Barbara Streisand, Frank Sinatra, Carlos Santana, Gloria Estefan, and many others on the list she is ahead of. If this "reliable source" is stating the sales of Tina's albums and singles are at 180 million, then it needs to be deemed an "unreliable source" because anyone who keeps up with music knows she has not sold that many albums. This casts credibility questions over the whole article. It makes readers who know these Tina Turner statistics are not correct think: "Well if this is wrong, what else in the article is wrong"? And for readers who Do Not keep up with sales, they may read this and think Tina has outsold all these other acts. This isn't fair to those other acts who have achieved higher sales and deserved to be ranked accurately on the list.
Now of course, mistakes happen, errors get in some articles. But this isn't one of those situations. The correct course of action in this instance would be to leave Turner off the list entirely since she, her management, and/or record companies will not release any information and/or accurate information on her sales statistics, as opposed to rewarding them for this behavior, and placing her above several artists she has obviously not outsold. A compromise may be to do something like this:
Tina Turner United States 1955–present Rock and roll, pop 70 million*
-then at the bottom of the entire list in small print put-
This would keep Tina on the list and it would be fair. She should be placed under the 50-74 million category. The website IMDB.com (which may be the most accurate out of what is out there) lists her album only sales at 60 million. The site vanityedge.com lists her sales at 55 million, and this site makes a point of saying not to believe any website that lists Tina Turner sales at numbers like 100 million and over because they are not true, they are being inflated. However, this is not an official site, but notice the numbers are in the same range. Again, sorry for the long novel.
P.S. With album sales the way they are in this day and age, I also do not believe Lady Gaga has sold over 64 million albums and singles already, while Britney Spears (who debuted in 1999) is at 100 million, with Gaga on her tail. Britney's number seems accurate, Gaga's doesn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 ( talk) 03:11, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I totally agree, vanityedge.com is not a reliable source (although what they say about Tina's sales may be true); and IMDB.com is kinda up-in-the-air. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 ( talk) 21:45, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
This discussion will validate a lot of mistakes and misunderstanding surrounded this list. The discussion can not be close until further research and debate
i just make this statement ..."the current reference does mention 15 million sales and 40 million singles, its a pretty big error sum these completely different concepts. an album is an album and single are single i dont think i have to explain this concept far beyond, i think it was a mistake from the wiki guys let this thing slide over this list, watch out guys and read every reference people posted because some of them think with their fan heart rather that real facts that disillusioned the truth to other users. regards"... harout i'm not quite sure if you are the wiki administrator for this list but let me tell you this whole list lack of facts and that is because people are posting things of doubtless sources and even doing non-sense things like summing singles and albums, if that is the way this list is running the whole list is completely wrong!!, its like summing apples with watermelons, i dont think toyota calculates their car sells by summing cars sold with engines and tires. common sense please. i think lady gaga its the clear example of what people is doing with this list, how it is possible lady gaga with just one album (dont get me wrong its pretty good) has the same sells as red hot chilli peppers, motley crue and other artist that has been there for over 30 years? its important understand the value of wikipedia on the web, many web pages artist-bios extracts their info from wikipedia so if you said iron maiden has sold over 100 million records many band bios are going to copy this information which later are going to be use as reference for that particular statement. many magazines pull info. from wiki to get their notes, have you notice the first link of source its always wikipedia? i can not imagine iron maiden selling more than 100 million records, if you go album by album the sum does not match, even having not any riaa, ifpi or soundcan certification for any of their albums... im trying to put iron maiden as an example, same happened with gaga. wikipedia is starting to get a huge amount of incredibility and that is because the lacking of sources and administration, its a shame because the idea of wikipedia is great but someone need to control it. -- Therein8383 ( talk) 02:45, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
According to this article he has sold almost 55 million copies. http://www.universalmusica.com/enriqueiglesias/News/1924-- 189.217.76.147 ( talk) 23:23, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
I would strongly suggest against adding Enrique Iglesias to the list even if a reliable source is located. The certified sales for Iglesias clearly doesn't suggest anything even remotely close to 40 million let alone 55 million. Below is all the available certified sales:
Also, IFPI (Europe), for the entire European continent has 2,000,000 posted for Enrique and 2,000,000 for Escape, but of course the figures already found in European associations respectively must be deducted from IFPI (Europe)'s figures (which represent European certified sales in whole) to avoid double counting. This is done in order to see the remaining figures which come from certain European markets which don't offer certification-databases, (Italy for example), it's also done to cover the remaining sales-figures of those records in available market's databases which lie between the first and the second platinum-award (for example). The remaining figures for Enrique is 1,350,000, and for Escape is 265,000. And adding those album-figures to the top of those album-figures posted above is 13,730,000 in certified-album-sales. And singles-certified-sales is 2,425,000. Iglesias' total-actual-sales would never reach 40-45 million records even if we had sales coming from all markets in the world. And above, we have all those markets which cover 75-80% of the global sales.-- Harout72 ( talk) 17:44, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Hello. I am a big fan of Christina Aguilera and I thought it didn't give her justice by not having her on the list so here are the figures:
Albums - 42 -> 43 http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2010/01/hot-property-christina-aguileras-home-pops-back-on-the-market.html http://www.askmen.com/specials/2009_top_99/christina-aguilera-35.html http://www.popcrunch.com/the-popcrunch-100-hottest-women-of-2009-80-61/ http://music.msn.com/music/features/christina-aguilera/?GT1=28129&silentchk=1&
Singles (in america ONLY) http://www.billboard.com/#/column/chartbeat/ask-billboard-how-tik-tok-winds-up-at-no-1004054542.story 3,351,000 physical singles and 8,603,000 digital tracks.
She has sold at least 54 million and should be on the list. Thanks for your time. CheezeDoodles ( talk) 00:49, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd be careful when reading and believing those 42-43 million in album-sales for Aguilera. While, I believe her total record-sales (Albums, Singles, Videos combined) could reach the neighborhood of 40 or 42 million, I'm quite skeptical about as to whether Aguilera's worldwide albums-sales could come close to even 35 million. Let me just post her certified sales below, so we all can agree with each other.
I could post some more markets, but really, they won't make much difference, these are all the markets one should look at when analyzing record-sales (and Japan's too which I suspect is not even some 1 million records). And I think our answer here based on the certified-sales is pretty self explanatory. I personally would not put Aguilera on the list with a source that mentions albums-sales only. Let's make sure it's source that speaks of Aguilera's all records, and the figure in this case, should not surpass the 50 million mark.-- Harout72 ( talk) 04:08, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Well I'm not sure about the user above but I did find 3 more sources http://www.last.fm/music/Christina+Aguilera http://showbiz.sky.com/xtinas-rise-to-the-top http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/b202beb7-99bd-47e7-8b72-195c8d72ebdd They are a radio station and two tv channels. Coupled with the MSN one I think its pretty solid. I dont want to get into a big fight about this but I think your wrong with alot of your figures. I mean Billboard said 12 million singles in US alone. Not to mention that Stripped sold almost 2000000 in UK. Plus a gold and two platinum album equals alot more than 2000000 Thanks CheezeDoodles ( talk) 15:08, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your time CheezeDoodles ( talk) 21:22, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes, you are right, records received Gold-certification-awards could fall somewhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000 (for RIAA), but let's face it, Aguilera is not an artist who's released awful lot of records throughout the years, meaning we should not be worried too much about the units that cannot be seen due to not having reached the next certification-award-level. In Other words, as you can see, Aguilera's total-certified-album-sales from RIAA comes to 15.2 million, whereas her US actual-album-sales is at 16.4 per this article. Had she released countless materials over the years, her actual-sales would not have been as close to her certified-sales as it is. By the way, no offense, but I don't think you are entirely familiar with RIAA's certification-award-levels. That said, both "Fighter" and "Beautiful" have been certified as Gold-digital-singles for selling over 100,000 respectively. Digital-award-levels for singles were launched in July 2004 at Gold=100,000 and Platinum=200,000. The levels for Digital-award remained at those levels until September 2006, from then on, the levels were brought up to match with levels of both Standard-Format and Master-Ringtone-format as the demand for digital-downloads grew high. As for Sky, I doubt that it's regarded more reliable than BBC, but definetely, it does state a very logical figure for Aguilera, 42 million records (that is albums, singles, videos not just albums). As for this source, which you confused with the real BBC page, I'm not sure where it's being used but it needs to be immediately removed.-- Harout72 ( talk) 21:52, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Also I have have found this page: http://prince.org/msg/8/304825 I know its not reliable but it claims its from Billboard and seeing as its on a Prince fan-site it wouldn't have any reason to change the figures for Christina Aguilera (It is also on other forums and fansites). So with the 15,700,000 and 11,300,000 for Christina Aguilera and Stripped respectivly, 42 million sounds a bit more plausable. Also I believe Back to Basics has sold 4.6 million worldwide. Keeps Gettin' Better: A decade of hits sold about million worldwide. Just Be Free (demo) sold 120,000 in US . Mi Reflejo 5 million worldwide. Also My Kind Of Christmas sold 1 million in US.So with all that added up it comes to 38720000. I understand that theres no way its going on the page with no sources so I'll find the references for these and the offical Billboard article and post it on the the talk page. Thanks for your help. CheezeDoodles ( talk) 22:53, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
I think we may have found a RELIABLE source. Her own labels website! Her own label released on their website she has sold over 46 million albums worldwide:
http://www.rcamusicgroup.com/news/christina-aguilera-perform-american-music-awards this is not including any of her singles sales which would quite easily bounce her up to the 60 million mark including US single sales alone. She should quite clearly be on the list.
219.89.129.156 (
talk)
06:01, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
HI, i have recently seen from several sources (including the Duran Duran website, a few online magazine articles and a BBC Top of the Pops Duran Duran episode) saying that they have sold over 100 million albums, but are still in the 50-75 million category, could you please tell me why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richiewiki ( talk • contribs) 18:34, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
It turns out that Duran Duran may have or may have not sold 70 million records based on what their available certifications suggest. They actually do not have certifications in numerous markets including Austria (the database of which starts from 1990), Switzerland (the database of which starts from 1989), Sweden (the database of which starts from 1987), Poland (the database of which starts from 1995), Norway (the database of which starts from 1993), Australia (the database of which starts from 1997), Brazil (the database of which starts from 1990), Mexico (the database of which starts from 1999). This is all I see for Duran Duran:
All in all, we have 19.8 million Singles, Albums, Videos in combined certified sales from above, and French actual sales of 1.2 million. No matter how far one tried to stretch this figure, it would never surpass the 70 million mark which is what the currently provided source claims for Duran Duran. I'd say, we should leave Duran Duran exactly where they are with 70 million estimated sales figure.-- Harout72 ( talk) 00:40, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Harout72, you say that certified sales should support atleast 50 % of claimed figures. What about artists like A.R. Rahman, Deep Purple, Village People, Nana Mouskori etc etc? They hardly have any worldwide certification and even the sales in their home country would'nt be sky high ie AR Rahman may have sold a maximum of 3-4 million copies in India (it is not a huge market). In addition, only two of his records have international certifications. Also, Nana Mouskori does not have many certifications internationally as well. Her sales in Greece may be a lot but then you must note Greece is a small market. The same goes for Julio Iglesias. Why aren't you demoting them but rather not promoting bands like Iron Maiden whose certified sales are actually higher? You may say that some of these artists were performing before many certification bases came out but a majority of these artists were known mostly only locally so I don't think that would change things as well. As for Deep Purple, they have sold about 9-10 million in the US and less than a million in the UK, so whether certification bases came out or not i dont think their certified sales will be high 203.101.45.224 ( talk) 10:05, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Italian wikipedia and wikipedia uk (or usa) say that Anastacia has sold over 50 million albums ... you can add it?-- AccendiLaLuce ( talk) 01:05, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
ok...but can not be that they get to 50 million with the individual? lady gaga get to 64 thanks to the individual because the album does not come with a 20 ... sorry for mistakes if there are but I'm not English —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
AccendiLaLuce (
talk •
contribs)
17:21, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Janet Jackson should not be moved into a higher section on the list as she has not sold more than 100 million records. All figures published in the sources provided by user OneInAMillion96 are for promotional purposes. 200 million in sales for Janet Jackson is unbelievably inflated. I am going to post all the available certified sales below for Janet Jackson, which should be enough evidence to see that Janet Jackson was a US phenomenon only, in other words, her sales outside of US is not impressive at all.
Please note that there are no certified sales for Janet Jackson in many markets due to extremely weak sales, including Austria, Finland, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina. As one can see Janet Jackson's total certified sales from the available markets above plus the French actual sales is just 47,774,498. And that clearly is enough to understand that the 200 million figure published by some sources are only for marketing purposes possibly given to them by Janet's record company to promote her upcoming material. Again, Janet Jackson should stay within the section of 100-199 with an estimated figure of 100 million.-- Harout72 ( talk) 23:04, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
I can not be tried and locked, because I quoted references and when mr. Haraout72 opened this discussion page, I stopped editing the sales of 200 million. I am available, for this discussion, I just did not seem right to be tried, and I quoted sources. Mr.. GaBe19: I do not answer people on your level, you have tried to intimidate me, like calling me 'stupid'. I only speak PEOPLE WITH RESPECT.
Albums:
(Total: 128,945,000 copies)
Singles:
(Total: 22,768,000 copies)
Videos:
Others: 880,000 copies
(Total: 4,880,000)
All sales: 156,593,000
Sincerely,
User:OneInAMillion96 =) —Preceding undated comment added 21:44, 13 September 2010 (UTC).
I totally agree with Petergriffin9901. Design of a Decade only shipped 2 million in US and 2 million in entire Europe, only a total of 4 million in teritorries which hold 60-70% music market. How the hell did it sell 21 million in the rest of the world! How could you say Velvet Rope sold 29 million? Only 3 million shipped in US and 2 million in Europe. So it sold 24 million in other minor music markets? I believe that Janet has never been big outside US. Even, in US, she is the eleventh best-selling female artist with 26 million albums. So, it is imposible Janet sold over 50 million albums worldwide. I'm sure that Britney Spears sold more than Janet. She is the eight best-selling female in term album sales, per RIAA. And Britney is much more popular and bigger outside US. If we put Janet in 200-299 million, then we would move Mariah Carey and Celine Dion to over 300 million as both sold far ahead Janet. Finally, Janet official record company Universal Music Groups confirmed that Janet sold 100 million records at Discipline press release in 2008. Do we say that Janet sold another 100 million from 2008? :-) Bluesatellite ( talk) 00:13, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
The numbers listed on some of these albums is laughable. The very first album, called "Janet Jackson", didn't even get certified gold in the U.S.; that album only sold around 300,000 copies in the US. No way it sold another one million worldwide to get up to 1.3 million; that album wasn't even a hit. The next album, "Dream Street", sold less than the first album. It sold about 150,000 - 200,000 copies. Again, not a hit so no way it sold another 800,000 worldwide. 1.3 million and 1 million is totally inflated for those albums. Next is "Control". This was a hit album, but it has been certified at 5 million in the US. Even if you raise that to six million since it's last US certification, it's hasn't sold more than 5 million in the rest of the world as Janet is/was not a huge act outside of the United States. So this album wouldn't be at more than 10, 11 million worldwide. But yet, it has 14 million listed. Did someone just tack on an additional four million copies? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 ( talk) 03:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Christina Aguilera has sold over 60 million records worldwide.
Her own label released on their website she has sold 46 million albums worldwide: http://www.rcamusicgroup.com/news/christina-aguilera-perform-american-music-awards which is not including any of her singles sales. She should quite clearly be on the list.
To people who dont believe this:
How can Lady Gaga be on here with 55 million when she has sold 15 million albums and people are saying Aguilera can't be on here because she has sold only 30-46 million albums worldwide? She has had some big singles and just go to her page and look at the references for sales. Their are a lot that can agree with me. 219.89.129.156 ( talk) 05:58, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Could editors help me locate a source for Eric Clapton, which preferably claims a figure around 100-120 million in record sales. I've been trying to get Clapton onto this list for quite sometime now, but I have not succeeded in finding a reliable source so far. I'd appreciate any help, the publication doesn't have to be in English language. Thanks.-- Harout72 ( talk) 00:21, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I can't seem to have any luck in locating anything either, I hope someone prints something about Clapton's figures some day day soon as this guy truly deserves to be on this list.-- Harout72 ( talk) 22:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Michael Jackson currently sold an estimate of 800 million albums.It is on Wikipedia page of Michael Jackson. And also I do not think Lady Gaga or Rihanna can sell over 50 million albums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bibirose ( talk • contribs) 05:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
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And what about Tino Rossi, Alla Pugacheva and Nana Mouskouri??? Everybody with more than 250 million records sold.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Migang2g ( talk • contribs) 18:28, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
-- Migang2g ( talk) 18:10, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
I have seen,yesterday,that Lady Gaga ha sold 55 milion records and was written at the last table(50 to 75 milion) ... why she isn't written on the table now? AriandaGAGA ( talk) 21:15, 12 April 2010 (UTC) AriandaGAGA
She was removed because her claim was backed up by her own wikipedia page. As these pages are prone to having inflated figures added in by the fans of the music artist they cannot be used for this. You can see the box at the top of the page for more information about what sort of sources can be used for this page. Hitthat ( talk) 21:20, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Tank you for the answer ... but can someone do a research about what have she really sold worldwide? AriandaGAGA ( talk) 06:08, 13 April 2010 (UTC) AriandaGAGA
Just looking at her Cert's on her page, I would say that 25 million records would be realistic. Due to the type of artist she is her fans tend to buy digital singles rather than albums, which gives a large boost to her record sales. Hitthat ( talk) 10:21, 13 April 2010 (UTC) wow ... thank you! well ... now i'll pray one day she will be written here AriandaGAGA ( talk) 12:32, 13 April 2010 (UTC) AriandaGAGA
-- GagaLittleMonster ( talk) 09:17, 17 May 2010 (UTC)Um, i believe this is a reliable source: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/lady-gaga-sells-out-around-the-globe-with-her-2010-monster-ball-tour-and-announces-2011-north-american-dates-2010-05-10 So i think she sold approximately 50+ million records in a year and a half. Even if it's not reliable, she'll sure make the list in a year or something.
Here's a more reliable source, the most actually, her own UK site: http://ladygaga.co.uk/news.php?item=242 I think it's about time she was added, and if you're requesting a single figure, this means she has sold 60+ million records.-- Hussein Ibrahim ( talk) 12:53, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
Note that Grein states The digital tracks from the album have sold a combined total of more than 25 million units, which doesn't necessarily mean that he speaks of singles' sales only. The tracks from The Fame Monster have been downloaded 25 million times; in other words, if I want to have the entire album (The Fame Monster) in Digital-format, I download every single track individually. And that's what Grein means in his statement, he doesn't refer to only the tracks that have been released as singles. So, the tracks on The Fame Monster that get downloaded by consumers and are not released as singles are counted towards the sales of the album, and even the single-release-titles which are downloaded directly from the album as here are counted towards the sales of the album. Anyways, I'm currently in search of a reliable source which states Gaga's sales as a single figure, not in two figures, one for singles and one for albums. If someone comes across a source claiming a logical 50 or 55 million (for albums and singles combined), we could put her up on the list as she will soon collect a lot more certifications that she currently has, but again the source should state one figure only.-- Harout72 ( talk) 22:56, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Well, so far RIAA's available certifications for Gaga's singles don't suggest anything remotely close to 22 million; however, I believe very soon RIAA's going to issue new certifications for her singles as well as re-certify her older releases, which may help her certified singles easily surpass the 15 million mark, but again I strongly doubt that it will bring it anywhere near 20 million. Worldwide, I'm sure the actual-sales of her singles has already reached and even surpassed 22 million, but just in US, is not likely. Anyways, as I mentioned above, I'm willing to put her up on the list with some 50 or 55 million (single-figure-claim), as I realize that lot of her records have yet to be certified and re-certified and with this pace she's selling her records, she'll definitely achieve 50-55 million records soon, but for now, the figures that are being tossed about are simply figures for marketing purposes.-- Harout72 ( talk) 04:08, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
I think I did state that her worldwide actual-singles-sales should have surpassed 22 million, I never said that just because her certified Singles' tally from the main markets comes up to 16.9 million is necessarily that's what her actuals sales should look like too. And I'm well aware of how certifications getare issued, as I have also stated above that lot of her records have yet to be certified and re-certified. Also note that RIAA certifies physical records based on shipments minus returned units, therefore, it takes a little long for certifications of physical records to appear in the databases since it takes sometime to subtract the returned units from the shipped units and determine what the actual sales are. Also, if multiple sales-levels are simultaneously certified, only one audit certification fee is charged, and the fee is only $350.00. Not a big deal for major record companies, especially when they constantly use the number of Gold and Platinum awards received by their established artists to promote upcoming materials. I haven't looked at those US singles sales yet, which you have posted above, but if that's the case, then Gaga's sales are more impressive than I initially thought. But again, over 50 million singles in sales as claimed by news services which is given to them by her record company is clearly a promotional figure.-- Harout72 ( talk) 15:48, 23 August 2010 (UTC)
Michael Jackson 300m figure must be deleted. Since his dead Michael Jackson has sold more than 60 million records (that doesn't includes videos, ringtones...). That includes approximately 9 million albums in the United States and 24 million albums outside US (worldwide total: 33 million albums), 12.9 million track downloads in the United States and 13,6 million paid downloads outside US (worldwide total: 26,5 million). How Michael Jackson Made $1 Billion Since His Death. Only last year (2009) in US Michael Jackson sold 8,286,000 albums and 12,355,000 digital tracks (His total digital track sales from 7/4/2004-1/3/2010 were 19,225,000 units sold). Nielsen SoundScan 2009 U.S. year-end sales report In UK since his dead Michael Jackson has sold 1.54m singles and 2.77m albums, a grand total of 4.31m sales. 4m British sales commemorate Jackson's departure. etc. etc. In table we have 3 figures for Michael Jackson: 300m, 350m and 750m and Jackson is only (!?) artist with 3 figures. At the time of Jackson dead 300m figure was low end in the first place and now with his massive recent sale that figure is completely outdated. 350m is also outdated but until we don' get newer figure from reliable source we can stick to 350m and 750m figures. BTW I would like to point out that 7 months ago Elvis' 300m figure was replaced in table with inflated 600m figure here and that went without discussion so... -- Z.K. HAL ( talk) 16:12, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
All I have to say WOW, you really are in denial as most Jackon's fans are. I am not going to remove Jackson's 300 million because if we are going to remove the 300 million then we might as well remove the 750 million also because the latter is more incorrect than the former can ever be. I may not have all the certifications from every single market in the world for Jackson, but I assure you that I have 85-90% of the certifications that cover his sales, and yet his certified sales is an ocean apart from the 300 million figure. And don't be complaining about putting hours in discussions in the past, you are here once every six months doing nothing but criticizing my hard work. You don't even seem to realize what kind of time and effort I put in to keep this article honest, I have things to do of my own, but I'm not insulting others because it may sometimes take long time for some editors to understand things they're not familiar with. As for the certified sales, the only thing that needs to be corrected is Australia's certified sales as the platinum-award-level in Australia before 1989 was 50,000, and that's going to bring down Australia's certified sales for all artists including Jackason's. Anything else that you see that is wrong that perhaps needs a correction, bring it to my attention in a calm and friendly manner, do not shout at me. If you don't have anything normal to say to me or about my hard work, I suggest you to report to administrators about my work. And finally don't expect me to reply to your messages if you are going to behave this way.-- Harout72 ( talk) 19:42, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Harout72 all I have to say WOW. I will remind you once again that you were the person who put completely wrong figures for US certifications ( here) and after my complaint about that you attacked me, insulted me but at the end after xy hours, days of discussion you realised that I was right and you and all your reliable friends were wrong and that is only ONE example of nonsense from your ORIGINAL RESEARCH which I corrected. Read again complete discussion ( Wrong and/or questionable certified sales figures!), and now you are saying that I am here once every six months doing NOTHING but criticizing your hard work!?!?! I left this because regardless source and arguments you don't allow anyone who doesn't share your POV to do a single edit. Regarding known certified sales mentioned in this article I will repeat: this article was and still is full of wrong certification figures. Fact is that you can put whatever you want in it without discussion, even wrong calculations (certification figures) based on your original research. If I correct only 1 certification figure you will revert it, and if I bring wrong figures to your attention you will insult me at first (by default as you did last year in every our discussion) and then in the best case scenario after xy hours, days of discussion you will realize your mistake(s) and then you (I repeat YOU) will make an edit in article, so basically you act as an owner of this. I am not an idiot to bring to your attention your mistakes and then you will make an edit and take credit for my hard work and then after few months you will tell me that I am doing NOTHING but criticizing YOUR (?!) hard work. As I said before I am busy at the moment but in next few weeks (in worst case months) I will bring this issue to administrators attention and among others I will show that you are using certification figures - calculate figures (WP:OR) to discredit (delete from article) the numbers quoted in reliable sources but only for certain artists (I have big list of names). You are making decisions about what is reliable source, taking ownership of the article, and overriding verifiable facts with original research which is in most cases based on your completely wrong assumptions. -- Z.K. HAL ( talk) 23:56, 2 August 2010 (UTC)
Z.K. Hal, I really hope you stop harping on the same thing once and for all. As I mentioned above, if you see there is something needs an attention, a certain market's certification, bring it to my attention properly. This kind of behavior is not helping me or you or anybody else here. By the way, all artists get the same treatment. And no, I'm not using certified sales to discredit claimed figures, but those claimed figures that are awfully inflated get discredited automatically once the certified sales are posted. In the end, certified sales don't lie but inflated claimed figures do. Those artists who've begun their career after 1980 especially, their certified sales and their claimed figures should not be as far apart as Jackson's 750 million and his available certified sales are, because developed markets have had certification-schemes since then, and developed markets are the ones generating 80-90% of record sales.
Of course you're free to bring the certified sales to the attention of any administrators, I'm not; however, sure if they will view it as Original Research. In fact, WP:OR does clearly state here: This policy allows routine calculations, such as adding numbers, converting units, or calculating a person's age, provided editors agree that the arithmetic and its application correctly reflect the sources. And conversions of Gold/Platinum certification-awards is not OR as the links to award-levels to different time periods are included below the main table as "footnotes". WP:OR also states: The term "original research" refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and stories—not already published by reliable sources. -- Harout72 ( talk) 01:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
I miss Bing Crosby on this list. In his article, there is a mention of "half a billion records in circulation". This may have been mostly uncertified sales (as noted in the meager RIAA certifications note), but there must be some more info?-- Paracel63 ( talk) 17:00, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
The Rock band Rush (Toronto Canada) have now surpasssed 50 million units of worldwide sales. The new documentary RUSH: Beyond the lighted Stage, released june 2010 state in fact the only the Beatles and The Rolling Stones have had more consecutive Gold or better albums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Youngbowieorder ( talk • contribs) 14:58, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
And let's only count their album sales (LP, CD, cassette, 8-track, these will all count as records) and their single sales (CD single, 45's, 12 inch, cassingle, also counted as records). Let's not count their DVD or videocassette sales. Speaking in terms of fairness, it would not be consistent to count their DVD/video sales but not count DVD/video sales by other acts.
| Ferdi Tayfur || Turkiye || 1967–present || Arabesk || 50-60 million [1] |- http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdi_Tayfur_%28m%C3%BCzisyen%29 http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BCrkiye_men%C5%9Feli_alb%C3%BCmlerin_sat%C4%B1%C5%9F_listesi Wikitürkçe ( talk) 12:12, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I've found a Swedish language source which states 60 million sales, which seems more realistic than 70 million, after looking at the certifications. Norrköpings Tidningar newspaper source. Mattg82 ( talk) 01:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
I have updated the source as well as the estimated sales figure. As soon as we get a positive comment as to how reliable second source is, I will also include that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.-- Harout72 ( talk) 22:24, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Oricon reported this year that J-Pop singer Namie Amuro already sold 56.6 million copies since 1992. [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.24.112.182 ( talk) 17:40, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
As you can see, tha article says that namie has already sold 56.6 million copies since 1992. Amuro formely was part of the girlband Super Monkey's from 1992 to 1995, when she starts solo career. Probably this number includes Super Monkey's sales and her overseas sales, wich the sales is allowed by avex. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.24.31.138 ( talk) 14:10, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Are Madonna's certified sales in the UK including Who's That Girl and Evita?? Most worlwide certification database (including RIAA) credited both as Madonna album. Official book British Hit Singles & Albums also credits Madonna for that albums, although BPI website itself does not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.123.185.148 ( talk) 17:51, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
I can't find any results for Who's That Girl. BPI's system won't accept any apostrophes, I checked it with or without it, and nothing. Whether with "Title" or "Keyword", nothing. I must be missing something, if you can find it.-- Harout72 ( talk) 19:47, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Got it, good job.-- Harout72 ( talk) 20:53, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
To administrator of site datas: Maiden sold more than 80 mln albums, source http://www.ironmaiden.com/index.php?categoryid=8&p2_articleid=1253 - EMI states that during the 30 years period of collaboration, major label (EMI) sold more than 80 mln IM albums worldwide - that,s extremelly legal site-news from band's official www. Please, change the band's position. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.147.116.31 ( talk) 15:35, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Check these out:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/music/3110170/Iron-Maiden-frontman-on-keeping-it-real-after-35-years-at-the-top.html http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv-entertainment/music/2008/06/27/interview-iron-maiden-115875-20622203/ http://www.smh.com.au/news/gig-reviews/iron-maiden/2008/01/31/1201714134012.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amanloop ( talk • contribs) 09:45, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Especially the Sun source should be considered highly reliable as their current ranking in sales is based on an article of the same newspaper 2 years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amanloop ( talk • contribs) 09:41, 26 August 2010 (UTC) Amanloop ( talk) 09:58, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Bear in mind, Amanloop, that I and some other editors have worked hard to set some basic rules to follow and avoid inflations in sales figures which is quite often practiced by record companies. Therefore, since the last time you and I have had a discussion, my approach may seem a little different but I assure you that I am only doing what's best to have a proper list. And you can find those main guidelines that you're after at the top of this page in the box, The list is frequently edited in good faith; however, sales figures published by reliable sources may need to be verified with certification databases to avoid inflated figures. Artists without sufficient certifications to support published claimed figures may not be added to the list. Exceptions may be made in certain circumstances. I hope that clears things up for you a bit.-- Harout72 ( talk) 22:41, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
85 million records stated by The New York Times is definitely more realistic than 100 million in albums sales (only) as claimed by some other reliable sources. However, I'd like to wait and see the number of certifications Iron Maiden is going to collect for The Final Frontier. Within the next few weeks or months, we should be able to see certifications popping up for their brand new material, and if it looks promising enough, I will replace the 70 million with 85 million (as stated by The New York Times), but for now, we should keep them where they are.-- Harout72 ( talk) 16:24, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
-- Deathmyname ( talk) 01:57, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
I am sorry to say, but lot of what you have typed above is rather unclear. And, yes, the certifications are a solid way of determining whether or not the claimed figures are true. In other words, if a news service claims that a band has sold 100 million records, that means one would expect to see at least 50-60 million in certified sales. Having that said, we are not looking to find 90-100 million in certified sales when the claimed figure is 100 million. In the case of Iron Maiden, their certified sales are way below 20 million from above markets, which represent good 75% of all the global sales. So yes, 70 million in records (as claimed by The Sun is as logical as it can get for Iron Maiden.-- Harout72 ( talk) 04:24, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for discussing. Robert, in the case of Iron Maiden, yes we can rely on certifications to determine and see whether the claimed figure by their record company is a true figure or is it just a figure tossed about to promote an upcoming material. And I say in the case of Iron Maiden, because by 1980s (and that's when Iron Maiden have begun releasing their records) certification schemes have already been established by most larger markets, see the establishment years here. Again, note that we are not looking to find 70 million in certified sales when the claimed figure itself is 70 million, we are only looking to find some 50-60% of the actual sales certified, and that's claerly not the case with Iron Maiden. Robert, you are right about EMI having far better idea than someone like me who simply is forced to depend on certifications, but the problem is that EMI is not going to announce the true figure to the fans of Iron Maiden as inflated figures always seem more attractive and impressive, which at the same time creates this urge within fans to go out and purchase the upcoming release of the band/artist without questioning whether or not the new record might really be as good. Inflated figures are a well practiced tool by record companies. While, what I'm stating may sound like an opinion, the certifications, on the other hand, never lie. And Iron Maiden doesn't have enough of it to suggest anything even close to 70 million, let alone 100 million. As for your suggestion on how to search, doing it this way or simply Videos and Albums separately, doesn't change the number of the certifications that come up. The certified sales, by the way, in the main table on the list, are all posted by me. I post them separately only on the discussion page to make it cleared and more detailed. -- Harout72 ( talk) 02:23, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Robert, the Videos (16), and Albums (13), that is 29 together just as when you do a search for all certifications. And where in your search do you see that The Final Frontier has been certified? It has not been certified by RIAA yet.-- Harout72 ( talk) 02:53, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I'm making an assumption. Question first: where can I find a listing of how much each other "certification cartel's" gold and platinum certs are for? My assumption is that they are the same figures the RIAA uses. Thanks, Rob ROBERTMFROMLI TALK/ CNTRB 03:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Excuse me for saying this, but your assumptions/calculations are terrible. I don't think you are at all familiar with certified sales or with the certification-award-levels. I don't need to make this sound aggressive but my calculations above are quite detailed. But if you'd like to give it a try, you can find the certification-award-levels for each market they can be found on the list here at the footnotes. I uploaded my own report that I have done on Iron Maiden's certified sales, if you're interested what the figures should look like for each album released in each market, then here it is.-- Harout72 ( talk) 03:19, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
How are your calculations 100% correct? :) And I would very much appreciate it if you didn't assume anything like ownership of the article as nothing of that kind is happening here. Also, you might want to look at the top of this discussion page where it states: The list is frequently edited in good faith; however, sales figures published by reliable sources may need to be verified with certification databases to avoid inflated figures. Artists without sufficient certifications to support published claimed figures may not be added to the list. As you can see, I have worked on this page for a very long time along with some other editors, and relying on certifications is the best way to avoid filling this page with inflated figures. In the same vein, at the top of the list it states: Note: Although this list largely relies on claimed figures by highly reliable sources, some of the figures may need further examination to avoid inflated sales figures which is frequently practiced by record companies for promotional purposes. With regards to the RIAA's earlier certification-levels, before 1989 the certification-levels for singles were Gold=1,000,000, Platinum=2,000,000, for albums the levels were the same as they are now. By the way, your sources 1, 2, 3 are not acceptable for this list as all of the sources this page uses are highly reliable sources. And only one of your sources is weakly reliable, the 3rd one. Having said that, artists' official sites are not third party sources; therefore, they cannot be used. -- Harout72 ( talk) 04:08, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
You really don't have to provide sources here, that is not the issue here. The issue here is that Iron Maiden have not even sold 70 million records which is our current source states but it's more bearable than 100 million. 100 million in record sales is simply overblown. I'm not taking ownership here nor am I instructing anyone anything, both the discussion page and the list provide enough information for editors to know that sales figures here for this page are examined. Iron Maiden at RIAA site doesn't have singles certified, so I'm not sure what you mean by As for your math, RIAA has NotB at Platinum or 2 million - you have it listed at 1 million. Now if you still think I am being unfair and biased, you can simply report my actions and if administrators believe my detailed explanation is false, then I'll stand aside and let them move Iron Maiden into higher brackets. But that will, of course, violate WP:Consensus which I will not tolerate. I believe, I have put awful lot of time and effort in keeping this list honest; unfortunately, I don't think you appreciate that; therefore, you should try and get me stop editing this page as I'm sure that is what you are aiming at. By the way, those sources that claim 100 million in album sales only, should not even be looked at, we should only use sources that claim records, meaning albums, singles, videos. 100 million in album sales makes it even more unrealistic.-- Harout72 ( talk) 05:22, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
I think I have stated that the levels of the albums before 1989 were the same as now: Gold=500,000, Platinum=1,000,000, se this RIAA page please here. . It was the levels of the singles that were different.This page clearly explains that record sales are to be examined, and that is what I'm demonstrating here. And by reverting my edits, you will be in violation with what the top of this page states The list is frequently edited in good faith; however, sales figures published by reliable sources may need to be verified with certification databases to avoid inflated figures. I am not doing anything other than what is being suggested by the page. The certified sales suggest that Iron maiden have not sold more than 70 million records, and we have a highly reliable source currently supporting that claim.-- Harout72 ( talk) 05:46, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
And I'm not sure why you ask me this: if The UK Telegraph is a valid source for Mariah Carey, then why not for Iron Maiden? as I never said anything about Telegraph. I said, certified sales do not suggest anything over 70 million, and we have a reliable source for that currently. And what you mean by By reverting my edit, you were in violation of consensus? There has never been a consensus here, there have been edit-wars, but no consensus. I don't think there is anything more to say here. By the way, I have never been taken to ANI before for my record analysis. -- Harout72 ( talk) 06:18, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
And I politely explained to you that there has never been a consensus on moving Iron Maiden into higher brackets. We gain consensus here by examining the record sales with certified sales, and this can be seen in almost all discussions. I am not sure why that seemed as though I was backing away from my own suggestion. I'm also not sure what discussion you keep referring to by Mariah Carey and Telegraph. I personally think that we need a third opinion here, and it must come from someone who's familiar with how the music industry is being operated. Perhaps, we could ask Kww, who often edits music industry related articles.-- Harout72 ( talk) 07:07, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Now let's read this here together, and I have posted this here in this very discussion at the top, in the beginning, The Sun had printed in October of 2008 that Iron Maiden had sold 70 million records (that is Albums, singles, videos), and now just 22 months later in August of 2010 The Sun has printed an obviously inflated figure of 100 million in album sales (only). Now you tell me if you can make heads from tales. I hope you see now, why we need to analyze record sales. I honestly do not know what more I can say here, it's quite late and all I can say that I stand firm by what I've been saying throughout this discussion, Iron Maiden could not have sold 100 million records, and that is my final statement. It's up to you now, if you want RFC or third opinion.-- Harout72 ( talk) 07:28, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
You don't have my consensus to move Iron Maiden into a higher bracket. Therefore, it's up to you, I have provided detailed sourced explanation throughout this entire discussion as to why I think Iron Maiden could not have sold 100 million records. I don't know why you believe that getting the third person involved is necessarily going to get Iron Maiden moved upwards on the list. We definitely, need a third opinion here as we've been getting nowehere. If you'd like, I could ask Kevin (Kww) to state his opinion on here.-- Harout72 ( talk) 07:43, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
You obviously don't know how the consensus work, it's not more votes against fewer votes, you might want to refer to WP:Consensus. We all have to come to a single understanding by discussing the issues at hand. I have already provided a very logical and detailed explanation as to why Iron Maiden has not sold 100 million records, all of which you have ignored including my own detailed analysis. I have said it before and I'll say it again, this page informs editors that claimed figures may need to be examined through certifications; in other words, I'm not demonstrating here something that has not been said. The Sun had not printed an outdated figure in 2008, The Sun's claim is a realistic figure at 70 million. And when I said the third opinion, I meant someone who understands the music industry, and most of those editors you keep speaking of are not well educated about how record sales are operated, and the third opinion would help you and others see it perhaps more clearly. As I stated earlier, I stand firm by what I've been stating; therefore, you may turn this to either AN/I or Rfc, your choice. -- Harout72 ( talk) 16:56, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Look I don't mean to offend you but you're not even aware that RIAA is the certifying association for US only, having said that, this statement by The New York Times By the end of last week, more than 800,000 copies of “The Final Frontier” had been shipped to retailers around the world, said Rod Smallwood, Iron Maiden’s longtime manager talks about worldwide shipment not the US shipment only, and 800,000 units are not going to make a big difference when we are dealing with over 50 million units missing out of the claimed 100 million records. And I never said that the Telegraph is not a reliable source, I'm simply against the claim figure that they use within their article. I'll tell you what, let's do this, since I'm against the 100 million in sales and you are against the continued use of the 70 million, why don't we update Iron Maiden's sales figure by taking it up to 85 million in sales as claimed by The New York Times. I think that's a fair suggestion, and I think you kind of were suggesting that too above, correct?-- Harout72 ( talk) 02:13, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
I hope 85 million suits everyone, because 100 million is something I can't even glance at with only that much in certified sales. Anyways, hope The Frontal Frontier sells a lot more than it already has so it will narrow down the gap between the claimed figure and their certified sales. Cheers.-- Harout72 ( talk) 02:39, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
They've sold over 100 million albums, not 50 million records, besides in you source from FOX news it says: "in the '70s, with Black Sabbath, you sold more than 50 million records" like they sold 50 million in the 70s and after that it says "Then in the '80s", it might be saying that they had only sold 50 when they were in the seventies, also your source is talking about sales when Ozzy Osbourne was in the band only and it doesn't say the total sales by 2007 when it was published. I have source from BBC News that says that by 2009 they've sold over 100 million albums since their fromation in 1968. Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8075397.stm -- Dethmyname ( talk) 14:42, 22 August 2010
Ok First of all you have plenty of musician in your 100-199 list, that don't even have a single certification, even if they were from the 50's, second most of the sources like the BBC, mtv and others says that they've sold 100 million albums, so i don't know why you shoudn't believe this when i'm giving you a highly reliable source from 2009 by the BBC. Many of bands sold albums by other labels in different countries, so that may seem like a problem for the recording industries to qualify the album sales, besides when you wrote about the large european market, you have also put in your list artist like Barry White, The Carpenters, Dolly Parton etc.. and other musicians like theme from the 70's or 60's that have one certification of gold in one or two countries or no certifications. Black Sabbath also sold cassettes like many of these artist, and that also may seem difficult for the recording companies to verify all the total albums, cd's, or cassettes sales. -- Dethmyname ( talk) 19:59, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
It was brought to my attention by Petergriffin that Tina Turner doesn't have enough certifications to support her so called 180 million in record-sales. I went over Tina Turner's available certifications, and as pointed out by Petergriffin correctly, Turner truly doesn't have enough certification which one would expect to see for a figure like 180 million. Here are the certifications:
Above, we have 5,014,000 in certified singles-sales (French actual-sales is included), 27,649,694 in certified album-sales (French actual-sales is included), and 310,000 in certified videos-sales. Total of 32,973,694, and that clearly would not turn into anything huge, even if we had the Australian certified sales (the database of which starts from 1997) and the Japanese certified sales (the database of which starts from 2003). Having said that, I believe it's clear that Tina Turner could no have sold 180 million records as claimed by our currently provided two sources. Therefore, we should look for reliable sources (preferably with recent dates) which claim much lower record sales for Turner as I'm quite sure her actual sales should not be anywhere beyond 100 or 120 million maximum based on what her available certifications suggest. -- Harout72 ( talk) 22:11, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
I can't find anything lower either that represent her entire record sales, not just albums. Oh well, I guess we'll have to live with the 180 million in record sales, because removing Tina from the list will not be fair.-- Harout72 ( talk) 22:00, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I've seen the second one already as Mattg82 posted that here above a few days ago, but it only speaks of album sales (not records), it's not very useful. As for Oprah, I would not consider it very reliable, at least not for a list like ours which is strictly supported by prestigious news services for the most part. But 100 million (singles, albums, videos combined) is correct for Tina. I hope we find something reliable.-- Harout72 ( talk) 17:43, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
People Magazine said that Tina Turner has sold more than 80 million records worldwide. Although this article was posted on December 04, 2000, I'm really sure that her record sales do not increase significantly since. Bluesatellite ( talk) 03:38, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Has Tina Turner really outsold Whitney Houston? Whitney is circling in on 3 diamond albums in the U.S. alone: "The Bodyguard" (diamond), "Whitney Houston" (diamond), and "Whitney" (almost diamond) at 9 million, but no doubtly will be diamond at 10 million soon enough. Worldwide for these albums: "The Bodyguard" has sold 44 million, "Whitney Houston" 25 million, and "Whitney" 20 million. I think Tina's best selling album, "Private Dancer" (which I like), is at 20 million worldwide. That's on par with Whitney Houston's third best selling mega-album. And once you factor in Whitney's other huge sellers: "I'm Your Baby Tonight" (12 million); "The Greatest Hits" (10 million); "Your Love Is My Love" (10 million)"; the gospel album "The Preacher's Wife" (6 million); plus several greatest hits albums released outside the US and "I Look To You". Also, the album "Just Whitney" outsold Tina's albums like "Twenty Four Seven" and "Wildest Dreams". Then there's Whitney's singles, which there have been a trillion high selling ones, and need we mention the sales of "I Will Always Love You"? I like Tina so this is nothing against her, but I find it hard to believe she has outsold Whitney Houston. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 ( talk) 00:48, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
Hello, thanks for your reply. This may be pretty long so please forgive me. I have looked around and, yeah, you are correct, not too much out there mentioning Tina Turner's actual album sales. The websites I looked at that did mention her album sales, had her total worldwide sales at 55-60 million. This actually sounds about right. I now believe my original statement of "Private Dancer" selling 20 million worldwide, which is under Wikipedia's "List of best-selling albums worldwide", is incorrect. Several websites I looked at put the worldwide sales of that album at 11-12 million. This would make sense because at the website RIAA.com (the official organization for US album sales), they have "Private Dancer" at 5x platinum in the US (5 million sold). That would mean she would have had to sell another 15 million in the rest of the world for that album to be at 20 million, which isn't likely. But selling another 5-6 million in the rest of the world seems very likely. This album is probably indeed at 11 million total sales worldwide; and this is Tina's best selling album, so not nearly likely she's at 180 million album and single sales.
Tina Turner's sales listed at 180 million needs to be changed. She has not sold more than Whitney, Barbara Streisand, Frank Sinatra, Carlos Santana, Gloria Estefan, and many others on the list she is ahead of. If this "reliable source" is stating the sales of Tina's albums and singles are at 180 million, then it needs to be deemed an "unreliable source" because anyone who keeps up with music knows she has not sold that many albums. This casts credibility questions over the whole article. It makes readers who know these Tina Turner statistics are not correct think: "Well if this is wrong, what else in the article is wrong"? And for readers who Do Not keep up with sales, they may read this and think Tina has outsold all these other acts. This isn't fair to those other acts who have achieved higher sales and deserved to be ranked accurately on the list.
Now of course, mistakes happen, errors get in some articles. But this isn't one of those situations. The correct course of action in this instance would be to leave Turner off the list entirely since she, her management, and/or record companies will not release any information and/or accurate information on her sales statistics, as opposed to rewarding them for this behavior, and placing her above several artists she has obviously not outsold. A compromise may be to do something like this:
Tina Turner United States 1955–present Rock and roll, pop 70 million*
-then at the bottom of the entire list in small print put-
This would keep Tina on the list and it would be fair. She should be placed under the 50-74 million category. The website IMDB.com (which may be the most accurate out of what is out there) lists her album only sales at 60 million. The site vanityedge.com lists her sales at 55 million, and this site makes a point of saying not to believe any website that lists Tina Turner sales at numbers like 100 million and over because they are not true, they are being inflated. However, this is not an official site, but notice the numbers are in the same range. Again, sorry for the long novel.
P.S. With album sales the way they are in this day and age, I also do not believe Lady Gaga has sold over 64 million albums and singles already, while Britney Spears (who debuted in 1999) is at 100 million, with Gaga on her tail. Britney's number seems accurate, Gaga's doesn't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 ( talk) 03:11, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I totally agree, vanityedge.com is not a reliable source (although what they say about Tina's sales may be true); and IMDB.com is kinda up-in-the-air. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 ( talk) 21:45, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
This discussion will validate a lot of mistakes and misunderstanding surrounded this list. The discussion can not be close until further research and debate
i just make this statement ..."the current reference does mention 15 million sales and 40 million singles, its a pretty big error sum these completely different concepts. an album is an album and single are single i dont think i have to explain this concept far beyond, i think it was a mistake from the wiki guys let this thing slide over this list, watch out guys and read every reference people posted because some of them think with their fan heart rather that real facts that disillusioned the truth to other users. regards"... harout i'm not quite sure if you are the wiki administrator for this list but let me tell you this whole list lack of facts and that is because people are posting things of doubtless sources and even doing non-sense things like summing singles and albums, if that is the way this list is running the whole list is completely wrong!!, its like summing apples with watermelons, i dont think toyota calculates their car sells by summing cars sold with engines and tires. common sense please. i think lady gaga its the clear example of what people is doing with this list, how it is possible lady gaga with just one album (dont get me wrong its pretty good) has the same sells as red hot chilli peppers, motley crue and other artist that has been there for over 30 years? its important understand the value of wikipedia on the web, many web pages artist-bios extracts their info from wikipedia so if you said iron maiden has sold over 100 million records many band bios are going to copy this information which later are going to be use as reference for that particular statement. many magazines pull info. from wiki to get their notes, have you notice the first link of source its always wikipedia? i can not imagine iron maiden selling more than 100 million records, if you go album by album the sum does not match, even having not any riaa, ifpi or soundcan certification for any of their albums... im trying to put iron maiden as an example, same happened with gaga. wikipedia is starting to get a huge amount of incredibility and that is because the lacking of sources and administration, its a shame because the idea of wikipedia is great but someone need to control it. -- Therein8383 ( talk) 02:45, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
According to this article he has sold almost 55 million copies. http://www.universalmusica.com/enriqueiglesias/News/1924-- 189.217.76.147 ( talk) 23:23, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
I would strongly suggest against adding Enrique Iglesias to the list even if a reliable source is located. The certified sales for Iglesias clearly doesn't suggest anything even remotely close to 40 million let alone 55 million. Below is all the available certified sales:
Also, IFPI (Europe), for the entire European continent has 2,000,000 posted for Enrique and 2,000,000 for Escape, but of course the figures already found in European associations respectively must be deducted from IFPI (Europe)'s figures (which represent European certified sales in whole) to avoid double counting. This is done in order to see the remaining figures which come from certain European markets which don't offer certification-databases, (Italy for example), it's also done to cover the remaining sales-figures of those records in available market's databases which lie between the first and the second platinum-award (for example). The remaining figures for Enrique is 1,350,000, and for Escape is 265,000. And adding those album-figures to the top of those album-figures posted above is 13,730,000 in certified-album-sales. And singles-certified-sales is 2,425,000. Iglesias' total-actual-sales would never reach 40-45 million records even if we had sales coming from all markets in the world. And above, we have all those markets which cover 75-80% of the global sales.-- Harout72 ( talk) 17:44, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
Hello. I am a big fan of Christina Aguilera and I thought it didn't give her justice by not having her on the list so here are the figures:
Albums - 42 -> 43 http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2010/01/hot-property-christina-aguileras-home-pops-back-on-the-market.html http://www.askmen.com/specials/2009_top_99/christina-aguilera-35.html http://www.popcrunch.com/the-popcrunch-100-hottest-women-of-2009-80-61/ http://music.msn.com/music/features/christina-aguilera/?GT1=28129&silentchk=1&
Singles (in america ONLY) http://www.billboard.com/#/column/chartbeat/ask-billboard-how-tik-tok-winds-up-at-no-1004054542.story 3,351,000 physical singles and 8,603,000 digital tracks.
She has sold at least 54 million and should be on the list. Thanks for your time. CheezeDoodles ( talk) 00:49, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd be careful when reading and believing those 42-43 million in album-sales for Aguilera. While, I believe her total record-sales (Albums, Singles, Videos combined) could reach the neighborhood of 40 or 42 million, I'm quite skeptical about as to whether Aguilera's worldwide albums-sales could come close to even 35 million. Let me just post her certified sales below, so we all can agree with each other.
I could post some more markets, but really, they won't make much difference, these are all the markets one should look at when analyzing record-sales (and Japan's too which I suspect is not even some 1 million records). And I think our answer here based on the certified-sales is pretty self explanatory. I personally would not put Aguilera on the list with a source that mentions albums-sales only. Let's make sure it's source that speaks of Aguilera's all records, and the figure in this case, should not surpass the 50 million mark.-- Harout72 ( talk) 04:08, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Well I'm not sure about the user above but I did find 3 more sources http://www.last.fm/music/Christina+Aguilera http://showbiz.sky.com/xtinas-rise-to-the-top http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artists/b202beb7-99bd-47e7-8b72-195c8d72ebdd They are a radio station and two tv channels. Coupled with the MSN one I think its pretty solid. I dont want to get into a big fight about this but I think your wrong with alot of your figures. I mean Billboard said 12 million singles in US alone. Not to mention that Stripped sold almost 2000000 in UK. Plus a gold and two platinum album equals alot more than 2000000 Thanks CheezeDoodles ( talk) 15:08, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your time CheezeDoodles ( talk) 21:22, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes, you are right, records received Gold-certification-awards could fall somewhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000 (for RIAA), but let's face it, Aguilera is not an artist who's released awful lot of records throughout the years, meaning we should not be worried too much about the units that cannot be seen due to not having reached the next certification-award-level. In Other words, as you can see, Aguilera's total-certified-album-sales from RIAA comes to 15.2 million, whereas her US actual-album-sales is at 16.4 per this article. Had she released countless materials over the years, her actual-sales would not have been as close to her certified-sales as it is. By the way, no offense, but I don't think you are entirely familiar with RIAA's certification-award-levels. That said, both "Fighter" and "Beautiful" have been certified as Gold-digital-singles for selling over 100,000 respectively. Digital-award-levels for singles were launched in July 2004 at Gold=100,000 and Platinum=200,000. The levels for Digital-award remained at those levels until September 2006, from then on, the levels were brought up to match with levels of both Standard-Format and Master-Ringtone-format as the demand for digital-downloads grew high. As for Sky, I doubt that it's regarded more reliable than BBC, but definetely, it does state a very logical figure for Aguilera, 42 million records (that is albums, singles, videos not just albums). As for this source, which you confused with the real BBC page, I'm not sure where it's being used but it needs to be immediately removed.-- Harout72 ( talk) 21:52, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
Also I have have found this page: http://prince.org/msg/8/304825 I know its not reliable but it claims its from Billboard and seeing as its on a Prince fan-site it wouldn't have any reason to change the figures for Christina Aguilera (It is also on other forums and fansites). So with the 15,700,000 and 11,300,000 for Christina Aguilera and Stripped respectivly, 42 million sounds a bit more plausable. Also I believe Back to Basics has sold 4.6 million worldwide. Keeps Gettin' Better: A decade of hits sold about million worldwide. Just Be Free (demo) sold 120,000 in US . Mi Reflejo 5 million worldwide. Also My Kind Of Christmas sold 1 million in US.So with all that added up it comes to 38720000. I understand that theres no way its going on the page with no sources so I'll find the references for these and the offical Billboard article and post it on the the talk page. Thanks for your help. CheezeDoodles ( talk) 22:53, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
I think we may have found a RELIABLE source. Her own labels website! Her own label released on their website she has sold over 46 million albums worldwide:
http://www.rcamusicgroup.com/news/christina-aguilera-perform-american-music-awards this is not including any of her singles sales which would quite easily bounce her up to the 60 million mark including US single sales alone. She should quite clearly be on the list.
219.89.129.156 (
talk)
06:01, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
HI, i have recently seen from several sources (including the Duran Duran website, a few online magazine articles and a BBC Top of the Pops Duran Duran episode) saying that they have sold over 100 million albums, but are still in the 50-75 million category, could you please tell me why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richiewiki ( talk • contribs) 18:34, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
It turns out that Duran Duran may have or may have not sold 70 million records based on what their available certifications suggest. They actually do not have certifications in numerous markets including Austria (the database of which starts from 1990), Switzerland (the database of which starts from 1989), Sweden (the database of which starts from 1987), Poland (the database of which starts from 1995), Norway (the database of which starts from 1993), Australia (the database of which starts from 1997), Brazil (the database of which starts from 1990), Mexico (the database of which starts from 1999). This is all I see for Duran Duran:
All in all, we have 19.8 million Singles, Albums, Videos in combined certified sales from above, and French actual sales of 1.2 million. No matter how far one tried to stretch this figure, it would never surpass the 70 million mark which is what the currently provided source claims for Duran Duran. I'd say, we should leave Duran Duran exactly where they are with 70 million estimated sales figure.-- Harout72 ( talk) 00:40, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
Harout72, you say that certified sales should support atleast 50 % of claimed figures. What about artists like A.R. Rahman, Deep Purple, Village People, Nana Mouskori etc etc? They hardly have any worldwide certification and even the sales in their home country would'nt be sky high ie AR Rahman may have sold a maximum of 3-4 million copies in India (it is not a huge market). In addition, only two of his records have international certifications. Also, Nana Mouskori does not have many certifications internationally as well. Her sales in Greece may be a lot but then you must note Greece is a small market. The same goes for Julio Iglesias. Why aren't you demoting them but rather not promoting bands like Iron Maiden whose certified sales are actually higher? You may say that some of these artists were performing before many certification bases came out but a majority of these artists were known mostly only locally so I don't think that would change things as well. As for Deep Purple, they have sold about 9-10 million in the US and less than a million in the UK, so whether certification bases came out or not i dont think their certified sales will be high 203.101.45.224 ( talk) 10:05, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Italian wikipedia and wikipedia uk (or usa) say that Anastacia has sold over 50 million albums ... you can add it?-- AccendiLaLuce ( talk) 01:05, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
ok...but can not be that they get to 50 million with the individual? lady gaga get to 64 thanks to the individual because the album does not come with a 20 ... sorry for mistakes if there are but I'm not English —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
AccendiLaLuce (
talk •
contribs)
17:21, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Janet Jackson should not be moved into a higher section on the list as she has not sold more than 100 million records. All figures published in the sources provided by user OneInAMillion96 are for promotional purposes. 200 million in sales for Janet Jackson is unbelievably inflated. I am going to post all the available certified sales below for Janet Jackson, which should be enough evidence to see that Janet Jackson was a US phenomenon only, in other words, her sales outside of US is not impressive at all.
Please note that there are no certified sales for Janet Jackson in many markets due to extremely weak sales, including Austria, Finland, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina. As one can see Janet Jackson's total certified sales from the available markets above plus the French actual sales is just 47,774,498. And that clearly is enough to understand that the 200 million figure published by some sources are only for marketing purposes possibly given to them by Janet's record company to promote her upcoming material. Again, Janet Jackson should stay within the section of 100-199 with an estimated figure of 100 million.-- Harout72 ( talk) 23:04, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
I can not be tried and locked, because I quoted references and when mr. Haraout72 opened this discussion page, I stopped editing the sales of 200 million. I am available, for this discussion, I just did not seem right to be tried, and I quoted sources. Mr.. GaBe19: I do not answer people on your level, you have tried to intimidate me, like calling me 'stupid'. I only speak PEOPLE WITH RESPECT.
Albums:
(Total: 128,945,000 copies)
Singles:
(Total: 22,768,000 copies)
Videos:
Others: 880,000 copies
(Total: 4,880,000)
All sales: 156,593,000
Sincerely,
User:OneInAMillion96 =) —Preceding undated comment added 21:44, 13 September 2010 (UTC).
I totally agree with Petergriffin9901. Design of a Decade only shipped 2 million in US and 2 million in entire Europe, only a total of 4 million in teritorries which hold 60-70% music market. How the hell did it sell 21 million in the rest of the world! How could you say Velvet Rope sold 29 million? Only 3 million shipped in US and 2 million in Europe. So it sold 24 million in other minor music markets? I believe that Janet has never been big outside US. Even, in US, she is the eleventh best-selling female artist with 26 million albums. So, it is imposible Janet sold over 50 million albums worldwide. I'm sure that Britney Spears sold more than Janet. She is the eight best-selling female in term album sales, per RIAA. And Britney is much more popular and bigger outside US. If we put Janet in 200-299 million, then we would move Mariah Carey and Celine Dion to over 300 million as both sold far ahead Janet. Finally, Janet official record company Universal Music Groups confirmed that Janet sold 100 million records at Discipline press release in 2008. Do we say that Janet sold another 100 million from 2008? :-) Bluesatellite ( talk) 00:13, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
The numbers listed on some of these albums is laughable. The very first album, called "Janet Jackson", didn't even get certified gold in the U.S.; that album only sold around 300,000 copies in the US. No way it sold another one million worldwide to get up to 1.3 million; that album wasn't even a hit. The next album, "Dream Street", sold less than the first album. It sold about 150,000 - 200,000 copies. Again, not a hit so no way it sold another 800,000 worldwide. 1.3 million and 1 million is totally inflated for those albums. Next is "Control". This was a hit album, but it has been certified at 5 million in the US. Even if you raise that to six million since it's last US certification, it's hasn't sold more than 5 million in the rest of the world as Janet is/was not a huge act outside of the United States. So this album wouldn't be at more than 10, 11 million worldwide. But yet, it has 14 million listed. Did someone just tack on an additional four million copies? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.112.134 ( talk) 03:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Christina Aguilera has sold over 60 million records worldwide.
Her own label released on their website she has sold 46 million albums worldwide: http://www.rcamusicgroup.com/news/christina-aguilera-perform-american-music-awards which is not including any of her singles sales. She should quite clearly be on the list.
To people who dont believe this:
How can Lady Gaga be on here with 55 million when she has sold 15 million albums and people are saying Aguilera can't be on here because she has sold only 30-46 million albums worldwide? She has had some big singles and just go to her page and look at the references for sales. Their are a lot that can agree with me. 219.89.129.156 ( talk) 05:58, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
Could editors help me locate a source for Eric Clapton, which preferably claims a figure around 100-120 million in record sales. I've been trying to get Clapton onto this list for quite sometime now, but I have not succeeded in finding a reliable source so far. I'd appreciate any help, the publication doesn't have to be in English language. Thanks.-- Harout72 ( talk) 00:21, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I can't seem to have any luck in locating anything either, I hope someone prints something about Clapton's figures some day day soon as this guy truly deserves to be on this list.-- Harout72 ( talk) 22:54, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
Michael Jackson currently sold an estimate of 800 million albums.It is on Wikipedia page of Michael Jackson. And also I do not think Lady Gaga or Rihanna can sell over 50 million albums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bibirose ( talk • contribs) 05:21, 1 November 2010 (UTC)