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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic
Palestine region, the
Palestinian people and the
State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting
the project page, where you can add your name to the
list of members where you can contribute to the
discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all
list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList articles
(possibilities - "List of airlines in Palestine", "List of airlines in the palestinian territories", "List of airlines in the Palestinian National Authority" or "List of airlines in the State or Palestine" or "List of airlines in the West Bank and Gaza Strip").
Greyshark09 (
talk)
21:40, 5 December 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - according to sources
[1], it should be named "List of airlines in the Palestinian National Authority". However, it seems to me "List of airlines in the State of Palestine" is more correct for current situation.
Greyshark09 (
talk)
16:01, 8 December 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - as followup to my comments at the prostitution page I propose changing the lead from "This is a list of airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories." into "This is a list of airlines registered in the
Palestinian National Authority." (after all the currently single listed airline doesn't operate in the Palestinian territories) and changing the title to include PNA.
Japinderum (
talk)
07:59, 20 December 2012 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure about this. On the one hand the
Palestinian National Authority only controls parts of the
Palestinian Territories (or whatever you call the west bank and gaza) so it's registrations wouldn't seem to be the only one that matters for the Palestinian territories, on the other hand, are there any airlines that currently operate in the Palestinian territories. Does the
Israeli Civil Administration, or some other part of the Israeli government handle registrations for Area C? Other the that non-operating one in East Jerusalem, are there even any airports in the Israeli-administered part of the Palestinian Territories for the Israelis to register airlines for.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk)
21:56, 20 December 2012 (UTC)reply
I looked at
List of airports in the Palestinian territories and the articles for all those airports list them as being non-operational. I think we can safely assume that there are no airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories, though I would be uncombable making the article state this until we found a source that said that. I'll go ahead and implement Japinderum's idea for the lead, except using the word "with" instead of "in".
This airport source and sources such as
the Polish goverment one (see it's map), and
this dictionary (it's second definition) seem to use the praise "Palestinian National Authority" to refer to the whole West Bank and Gaza Strip, not just Area's A and B. Obviously the
Palestinian National Authority (the administrative organization) does not control area C, but it would seem that term "Palestinian National Authority" (when referring to a physical territory) refers to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and not just Area's A and B, so saying "in the Palestinian National Authority" would seem to mean "in the West Bank and Gaza Strip".
I agree. We should go with your lede and title for now. We might want to eventually add a bit of info about when the airlines in the PT were active, and when they weren't, at which time "List of airlines in the Palestinian territories" (or whatever our new title for WB/GS articles becomes) might be a better title, but I don't see how we can do that without finding a source so for now let's go with your idea. Right now the closest thing there is to "airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories" is "airlines registered with the Palestinian National Authority.". I'm also going to add that "there are no airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories" to the lede. I'm uncombable doing this without a source, but without that statement this article is misleading and implies that the Arline listed here operating in the PT, and I'm even less combable with the article being this misleading.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk)
08:43, 21 December 2012 (UTC)reply
I added the airpores listed at
Yasser_Arafat_International_Airport#Airlines. Arter adding thise and thinking this over some more I'm not so sure your lede is the best approach. Without a source we can't know that these airlines are still registered with the Palestinian National Authority. Since there are no airlines in Palestine anymore the PNA might not even brother to maintain airline registrations, and even if they do allot of these airlines might not. I think a better lede might be "This is a list of airlines that operated in the
Palestinian territories before the closers of
Yasser Arafat International Airport and
Atarot Airport in 2001, and the closer of
Gaza Airstrip. There are no airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories."
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk)
18:38, 21 December 2012 (UTC)reply
Articles listing airlines do not list everybody who flies there, but only locally registered companies (e.g. Air France flies to Israel, but isn't included in the List of airlines of Israel), so I reverted the addition of foreign airlines. I also moved the "none operating" note below the table and expanded it a bit with a wikilink to the airports list. It can be further expanded along the lines of "Previously they were operating there, but now they operate only outside".
I think (but lack a source) "Palestinian airlines" are still registered with the PNA, e.g. they are the same company as before - they just restarted their operations (and they are owned by the PNA - see in its article). I think PNA will "bother" with registering them, because they want to have as many state-like institutions as possible and also because they want to re-open some of the local airports, e.g. "preparing for the future".
Japinderum (
talk)
06:45, 22 December 2012 (UTC)reply
You sure that's how airline lists work?
List of airlines of Israel "This is a list of airlines currently operating in Israel" if it were about airlines registered in Israel I would think it would say something to the effect of "This is a list of airlines currently registered in Israel", Air France could just be an omission. There are some like
List of airlines of the United States that talk about registration, but there are plenty of airline lists that say "This is a list of airlines currently operating in [country of territory]" If you're right about airline lists then your title and lead are probably the one we should go with.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk)
20:06, 22 December 2012 (UTC)reply
"in the State of Palestine" means "in the west bank and Gaza" , that would be like renaming it "List of airlines in the Palestinian Territories". If the PLO is merging PNA and SOP (which is the impression I get) then "in the State of Palestine" might become like ""in the State of Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic", which I would think could mean "in the
Western Sahara" or "in the
Free Zone (region)".
Let's figure out what we're doing with
State of Palestine and
Palestinian National Authority first, then use that president to figure out what to do with this article. This would affect all articles with "Palestinian National Authority" titles so unless there's a clear precedent at those two articles we would need a centralized discussion about these articles anyway.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk)
04:55, 5 January 2013 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of the
Aviation WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of
open tasks and
task forces. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.AviationWikipedia:WikiProject AviationTemplate:WikiProject Aviationaviation articles
This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-class status:
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Supporting materials: not checked
To fill out this checklist, please
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic
Palestine region, the
Palestinian people and the
State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting
the project page, where you can add your name to the
list of members where you can contribute to the
discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lists, an attempt to structure and organize all
list pages on Wikipedia. If you wish to help, please visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.ListsWikipedia:WikiProject ListsTemplate:WikiProject ListsList articles
(possibilities - "List of airlines in Palestine", "List of airlines in the palestinian territories", "List of airlines in the Palestinian National Authority" or "List of airlines in the State or Palestine" or "List of airlines in the West Bank and Gaza Strip").
Greyshark09 (
talk)
21:40, 5 December 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - according to sources
[1], it should be named "List of airlines in the Palestinian National Authority". However, it seems to me "List of airlines in the State of Palestine" is more correct for current situation.
Greyshark09 (
talk)
16:01, 8 December 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - as followup to my comments at the prostitution page I propose changing the lead from "This is a list of airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories." into "This is a list of airlines registered in the
Palestinian National Authority." (after all the currently single listed airline doesn't operate in the Palestinian territories) and changing the title to include PNA.
Japinderum (
talk)
07:59, 20 December 2012 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure about this. On the one hand the
Palestinian National Authority only controls parts of the
Palestinian Territories (or whatever you call the west bank and gaza) so it's registrations wouldn't seem to be the only one that matters for the Palestinian territories, on the other hand, are there any airlines that currently operate in the Palestinian territories. Does the
Israeli Civil Administration, or some other part of the Israeli government handle registrations for Area C? Other the that non-operating one in East Jerusalem, are there even any airports in the Israeli-administered part of the Palestinian Territories for the Israelis to register airlines for.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk)
21:56, 20 December 2012 (UTC)reply
I looked at
List of airports in the Palestinian territories and the articles for all those airports list them as being non-operational. I think we can safely assume that there are no airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories, though I would be uncombable making the article state this until we found a source that said that. I'll go ahead and implement Japinderum's idea for the lead, except using the word "with" instead of "in".
This airport source and sources such as
the Polish goverment one (see it's map), and
this dictionary (it's second definition) seem to use the praise "Palestinian National Authority" to refer to the whole West Bank and Gaza Strip, not just Area's A and B. Obviously the
Palestinian National Authority (the administrative organization) does not control area C, but it would seem that term "Palestinian National Authority" (when referring to a physical territory) refers to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and not just Area's A and B, so saying "in the Palestinian National Authority" would seem to mean "in the West Bank and Gaza Strip".
I agree. We should go with your lede and title for now. We might want to eventually add a bit of info about when the airlines in the PT were active, and when they weren't, at which time "List of airlines in the Palestinian territories" (or whatever our new title for WB/GS articles becomes) might be a better title, but I don't see how we can do that without finding a source so for now let's go with your idea. Right now the closest thing there is to "airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories" is "airlines registered with the Palestinian National Authority.". I'm also going to add that "there are no airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories" to the lede. I'm uncombable doing this without a source, but without that statement this article is misleading and implies that the Arline listed here operating in the PT, and I'm even less combable with the article being this misleading.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk)
08:43, 21 December 2012 (UTC)reply
I added the airpores listed at
Yasser_Arafat_International_Airport#Airlines. Arter adding thise and thinking this over some more I'm not so sure your lede is the best approach. Without a source we can't know that these airlines are still registered with the Palestinian National Authority. Since there are no airlines in Palestine anymore the PNA might not even brother to maintain airline registrations, and even if they do allot of these airlines might not. I think a better lede might be "This is a list of airlines that operated in the
Palestinian territories before the closers of
Yasser Arafat International Airport and
Atarot Airport in 2001, and the closer of
Gaza Airstrip. There are no airlines currently operating in the Palestinian territories."
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk)
18:38, 21 December 2012 (UTC)reply
Articles listing airlines do not list everybody who flies there, but only locally registered companies (e.g. Air France flies to Israel, but isn't included in the List of airlines of Israel), so I reverted the addition of foreign airlines. I also moved the "none operating" note below the table and expanded it a bit with a wikilink to the airports list. It can be further expanded along the lines of "Previously they were operating there, but now they operate only outside".
I think (but lack a source) "Palestinian airlines" are still registered with the PNA, e.g. they are the same company as before - they just restarted their operations (and they are owned by the PNA - see in its article). I think PNA will "bother" with registering them, because they want to have as many state-like institutions as possible and also because they want to re-open some of the local airports, e.g. "preparing for the future".
Japinderum (
talk)
06:45, 22 December 2012 (UTC)reply
You sure that's how airline lists work?
List of airlines of Israel "This is a list of airlines currently operating in Israel" if it were about airlines registered in Israel I would think it would say something to the effect of "This is a list of airlines currently registered in Israel", Air France could just be an omission. There are some like
List of airlines of the United States that talk about registration, but there are plenty of airline lists that say "This is a list of airlines currently operating in [country of territory]" If you're right about airline lists then your title and lead are probably the one we should go with.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk)
20:06, 22 December 2012 (UTC)reply
"in the State of Palestine" means "in the west bank and Gaza" , that would be like renaming it "List of airlines in the Palestinian Territories". If the PLO is merging PNA and SOP (which is the impression I get) then "in the State of Palestine" might become like ""in the State of Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic", which I would think could mean "in the
Western Sahara" or "in the
Free Zone (region)".
Let's figure out what we're doing with
State of Palestine and
Palestinian National Authority first, then use that president to figure out what to do with this article. This would affect all articles with "Palestinian National Authority" titles so unless there's a clear precedent at those two articles we would need a centralized discussion about these articles anyway.
Emmette Hernandez Coleman (
talk)
04:55, 5 January 2013 (UTC)reply