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I have removed the citation tag from the top of this article since most assassinations now have a ref. Joshdboz ( talk) 13:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
What about Gerald Bull? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Bull —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.119.2.126 ( talk) 19:51, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Article lacks reasoning for targeted killing and additional input on other possible suspects. Jaakobou Chalk Talk 17:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
By a curious coincidence, the page "List of Israeli assassinations" is available in Arab, but not the "List of Hamas suicide attacks"... I wonder why... How strange, isn't it? ;-) Fan2jnrc ( talk) 12:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Please explain why this was taken out: * March 27, 1952 - package addressed to Chancellor Konrad Adenauer of West Germany exploded in the Munich Police Headquarters, killing one police officer. Five members of the disbanded terrorist group, Irgun were arrested in Paris but no action taken. Future Prime Minister of Israel Menachem Begin was implicated as the organiser. See Konrad Adenauer, Assassination Attempt for more details. 86.159.190.174 ( talk) 08:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I do not see that a clear distinction is drawn in this article between assassinations that are alleged or that have drawn some speculation of Israeli involvement, and assassinations that have been proven or officially admitted to be link to Israeli security agencies. There were several items (which I removed) that were in the former category, and I suspect many more can be found. Демоны Врубеля/Vrubel's Demons ( talk) 19:17, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
It's at least good that there's finally some debate here, as this page does call for some judgment - absolute certainty is almost always lacking. The intention is to rely on reliable sources and commonsense. Just because Al-Ahram blames something on the Zionists doesn't make it true. Neither does a breathless story from Debka. In the most recent case of Mabhouh, we have the Dubai police announce that they are almost 100% certain Mossad was behind it, and independent reporting that confirms this from other sources (see the latest from the Times). To me that seems like enough reliable sources to merit a mention here. As for the rest, I think renaming the article would get cumbersome, but if there is doubt on certain cases then by all means we should debate inclusion, and if included, add caveats where necessary. Joshdboz ( talk) 01:36, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
What are the views of other editors regarding the inclusion of Folke Bernadotte? While it is true that the Lehi were responsible for the killing and they were not a strictly state apparatus (it was a transitory period in any case being just months after the state's establishment), many of those involved went on to become members of the Israeli government at various times. Thoughts? Tiamut talk 21:11, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Now Drmoos is deleting the same material Vrubel's Demons deleted [2]. Could we please stop pretending that there is misrepresentation going on here? The article states clearly that these are incidents reported to have been carried out by Israeli actors. The entries being deleted are reported to have been carried out by Israeli actors. That there is no official Israeli confirmation is to be expected given that secret services don't tend to confirm these kinds of things. Any doubts expressed in reliable sources can and should be noted, including official denials. But entires should not be summarily removed, particularly when they are reliably sourced and properly attributed. Please stop deleting these things without discussion and without regard for our policies on NPOV and RS. Tiamut talk 23:03, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
The first line of this article is The following is a list of assassinations reported to have been conducted by the state of Israel. Does anybody here seriously doubt that this was an assassination reported to have been conducted by Israel? When a reliable source explicitly says that The Israeli secret service Mossad has been widely accused of carrying out the killing? The text made clear that Israel had not confirmed that they did this, there is no cause for removal. nableezy - 23:05, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
These are all killings. There is no controversy as to whether they are killings.
There is controversy as to whether they are assassinations. A large number of the most RS sources -- professors and judges -- call them killings but not assassinations. That is because, among other things, assassinations are murder. Those RS sources do not believe the killings are either murder or assassinations.
This is quite clear for anyone who looks at the sources. If they need to see examples, I will be happy to provide them. For that reason, I am changing the word "assassinations" (disputed) to killings (undisputed).-- Epeefleche ( talk) 05:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
--
I disagree. The definition of assassination is according to Merriam-Webster "to murder (a usually prominent person) by sudden or secret attack often for political reasons". This definition holds regardless if murder is performed by a sniper rifle or a drone missile attack. The use of assassination is not controversial at all, on the contrary it is precisely in accordance with the dictionary. The use of [targeted killing] is controversial and disputed, as many (me included) refer to them as assassinations and believe it is simply an attempt to circumvent the legal rights and "baggage" that comes with concepts such as torture (advanced interrogation techniques) and prisoners of war (unlawful enemy combattants)
Gnurkel ( talk) 13:10, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
to include attempted assassinations, kidnappings and failures as well. Ie- Khalen Meshal in Amman,a nd the fella in Argentina. Lihaas ( talk) 06:33, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
I believe that the October 2010 killings should be removed from this list. Here is the description of what happened from the source:
The source is very clear that the Israelis approached these men in an attempt to arrest them, not to kill them, and that the killing was incidental. This is not an assassination. GabrielF ( talk) 01:36, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to remove Walid Obeidi from the list for the same reason listed above - it appears he was killed as the result of a gun battle with troops who came to arrest him, not assassinated. Here are two sources. CNN BBC GabrielF ( talk) 02:48, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
Some thoughts:
1) The Maxwell inclusion is highly dubious. I propose its deletion. 2) Some of the editorializing as to "in retaliation for" is unsourced, and needs sources or revision. 3) We should only inline the first instance of each word, such as Gaza. -- Epeefleche ( talk) 14:39, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
What should we do about Gerald Bull? We are stating definitively that he was assassinated by Mossad and citing a piece in the Irish Independent as a source. However, our own article on Gerald Bull says that nobody really knows who killed him and there are many suspects. The Irish Independent article [4] strikes me as very weak - it is very sensational and states as true many claims that are really just unproven allegations (for example, that Israel killed Imad Muganiyeh, or that Mossad has "tens of thousands" of Jewish helpers around the world. A much better source is a huge New York Times Magazine article (12 pages online) on the Bull case which says:
My preference is that we either delete Bull or, at the very least, explicitly state that this is a rumor. GabrielF ( talk) 16:03, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
It strikes me as though this is more of an accidental killing. NickCT ( talk) 22:17, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
An RFC on Talk:Death of Osama bin Laden is relevant to this article. The RFC was specifically located at: Talk:Death of Osama bin Laden/Archive 3#Rename to Assassination of Osama bin Laden. There was a clear consensus around the idea that if reliable sources don't indicate a clear attempt to kill someone (for instance if the order is to capture or kill if resisting) than the term "assassination" is inappropriate. We have reached a similar consensus on this article with regard to two cases described above.
According to contemporary press accounts, Massoud Ayyad's assassination took place on February 13, 2001, not February 3, as this article says. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicothewhiz ( talk • contribs) 20:14, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
please change the title. A good number of these assassinations are attributed to Israel without proof, or admission, and therefore to be balanced the title should read: List of Israeli assassinations, alleged or otherwise I don't think this is controversial. The title as it stands is grossly misleading. Nishidani ( talk) 10:38, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Obviously assassination of terrorists killers who are hidden in third countries is NOT terorrism. It does not fall under terrorism definition (this acts are targeted against individuals, not innocent people, nor using bombs or attacking civilians). And by my part, I say a large BRAVO to Israel. It is a service to mandkind to eliminate these killers. -- 201.213.156.224 ( talk) 15:40, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Could someone now add the details of the assassination of Arafat by Polonium? There is now substantial evidence that this was an Israeli assassination - certainly in excess of the balance of probability.... 194.176.222.227 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:09, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
Regarding this:
| November 14, 2012 | Gaza Strip | [[Ahmed Jaabari]] | Commander of Hamas' military wing | Killed in an airstrike at the start of [[Operation Pillar of Cloud]]. Led Hamas' 2007 takeover of the Gaza Strip and, according to Israel, was responsible for most attacks on Israel originating in Gaza from about 2006 to 2012, including the capture of [[Gilad Shalit]].<ref>{{cite news|last=Kershner|first=Isabel|title=Ferocious Israeli Assault on Gaza Kills a Leader of Hamas|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/world/middleeast/israeli-strike-in-gaza-kills-the-military-leader-of-hamas.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0|accessdate=15 November 2012|newspaper=The New York Times|date=14 November 2012|author2=Fares Akram}}</ref> | IAF
We had "capturing" of Gilad Shalit, it was reverted (twice, I might add) to "kidnapping," and then I changed it to "capture," keeping the old verb but correcting the tense. Now, which should we use and why? I believe that "capture" is more neutral than "kidnap," as kidnapping is a particular kind of crime and it requires a particular kind of mindset during the actions which constitute it. I don't think the NYT made the right choice of word here. As I said, I think "capture" is more neutral than "kidnap," but I don't think it's perfect. It connotes (but doesn't denote) military action, and there are plausible reasons for assuming that allowing that connotation to stand violates NPOV. Perhaps someone more logopotent than I has a better suggestion?— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 00:45, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
The reliable source we use for this claim uses the verb "kidnap" (as do many others). That's what we should use.
Stuck in SD with Yaming (
talk)
01:27, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
There are no "sides" here. Would you like to clarify what you mean by "sides"? Anyway, your hijacking of this talk-page section and holding it hostage to impose your conditions isn't discussion, so I'll just wait for others to contribute.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 02:29, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Of course it is kidnapping, maybe you can show a source that supports your use of the work capture or revert it back. BernardZ ( talk)
First, let me propose that there are two separate issues here. First, whether "kidnapping" is the right word. Second, whether "capture" is the right word. There may be a better word than either. I'm still mulling over the second issue, but it's clear to me that using the word "kidnapping" violates NPOV. For a taking of a person to be kidnapping it must be illegal. For an act to be illegal there must be a codified legal system under which it's illegal. In this case the Israeli legal system considers the taking illegal, but it is highly disputed whether the Israeli legal system is legitimately applicable where the action took place. Thus using the word "kidnapping" is privileging one side of that dispute over the other and is thus a violation of NPOV. I'm not wedded to the word "capture," as I said at the beginning of this discussion, but we do need to find a word that's neutral with respect to the legality of the action. We don't have to say it was legal, but we choose either legal or illegal and say it definitively. The fact that the NYT uses the word "kidnapping" is a red herring. We rely on sources to tell us what happened, not how to describe it. The NYT is well-known for being less than balanced in its descriptions of the Israeli-Palestine situation.—
alf laylah wa laylah (
talk)
14:01, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Interesting side-note: Eichmann was "captured." And rightly so, too.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 01:43, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
BernardZ ( talk) 13:48, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
There are a large number of entries on this list, including about half of the 2000s entries, that have no citations at all. Normally, I'd remove them immediately, but since this is a highly contested area and such a removal would likely be reverted immediately, I will instead leave a message here. I'll give it some time for sources to be located and found, but if I come back to this page in a week and there are entries without sources, I am going to remove them per Template:Unconfirmed. I realize that such an action might not go over well, but there is nothing to stop them from being re-inserted with a source, which is the barrier to entry for all contested lists. Sven Manguard Wha? 20:26, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
.
This article quotes says the "ACLU refers to targeted killing programs as
The problem is that the link on the ACLU website refers only to American targeted killing programs (i.e. drone strikes). Clicking the link won't work because of a syntax error but the cited page is here: [8] I don't believe that the ACLU takes a position on international issues. I don't think its fair to use a quote from an organization that says one country's targeted killing program is "illegal" to imply that the organization believes another country's program is illegal - after all different countries have different laws. I'm removing the ACLU quote. GabrielF ( talk) 01:53, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Nishidani, I fixed most of these, but I left the ones linked to Gaza for you because it'll almost certainly be easier for you than for me to figure out what's wanted in those cases.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 21:50, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
This is piddling, but it's hazardous to suggest, while flaunting one's own illiteracy, that someone else work on their grammar. Willi Winkler Der Schattenmann: von Goebbels zu Carlos : das mysteriöse Leben des François Genoud, Rowohlt, 2011 p.247 adopts in the present tense on both Klein's thesis and Haddad as follows:
'Der mit Geheimdiensten vertraute Autor Aaron J. Klein glaubt zu wissen, dass Haddad vom Mossad ermordet wurde, ein Verdacht, der in dieser paranoiden Welt des Verrats und der ständig wechselnden Loyalitäten naheliegt.'
Note the narrative present tense. (My only contact with boy scouts occurred when I was 9 years old, when I was told to punch one up if I wanted to join a gang. Unfortunately I did, and knocked him flat out. Fortunately, I was then inducted into the gang.) Nishidani ( talk) 19:07, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
' Schama cites Emmanuel Van Meteren, Belgische ofte Nederlantsche Historian van Onser Tidjen, (1605)'. Susan James, Spinoza on Philosophy, Religion, and Politics, Oxford University Press 2012 p.264 n.13
' Judt cites Israeli authors to bolster his argument.' Elhanan Yakira, Post-Zionism, Post-Holocaust: Three Essays on Denial, Forgetting, and the Delegitimation of Israel Cambridge University Press 2010 p.322.
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
I have removed the citation tag from the top of this article since most assassinations now have a ref. Joshdboz ( talk) 13:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
What about Gerald Bull? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Bull —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.119.2.126 ( talk) 19:51, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Article lacks reasoning for targeted killing and additional input on other possible suspects. Jaakobou Chalk Talk 17:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
By a curious coincidence, the page "List of Israeli assassinations" is available in Arab, but not the "List of Hamas suicide attacks"... I wonder why... How strange, isn't it? ;-) Fan2jnrc ( talk) 12:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Please explain why this was taken out: * March 27, 1952 - package addressed to Chancellor Konrad Adenauer of West Germany exploded in the Munich Police Headquarters, killing one police officer. Five members of the disbanded terrorist group, Irgun were arrested in Paris but no action taken. Future Prime Minister of Israel Menachem Begin was implicated as the organiser. See Konrad Adenauer, Assassination Attempt for more details. 86.159.190.174 ( talk) 08:43, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
I do not see that a clear distinction is drawn in this article between assassinations that are alleged or that have drawn some speculation of Israeli involvement, and assassinations that have been proven or officially admitted to be link to Israeli security agencies. There were several items (which I removed) that were in the former category, and I suspect many more can be found. Демоны Врубеля/Vrubel's Demons ( talk) 19:17, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
It's at least good that there's finally some debate here, as this page does call for some judgment - absolute certainty is almost always lacking. The intention is to rely on reliable sources and commonsense. Just because Al-Ahram blames something on the Zionists doesn't make it true. Neither does a breathless story from Debka. In the most recent case of Mabhouh, we have the Dubai police announce that they are almost 100% certain Mossad was behind it, and independent reporting that confirms this from other sources (see the latest from the Times). To me that seems like enough reliable sources to merit a mention here. As for the rest, I think renaming the article would get cumbersome, but if there is doubt on certain cases then by all means we should debate inclusion, and if included, add caveats where necessary. Joshdboz ( talk) 01:36, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
What are the views of other editors regarding the inclusion of Folke Bernadotte? While it is true that the Lehi were responsible for the killing and they were not a strictly state apparatus (it was a transitory period in any case being just months after the state's establishment), many of those involved went on to become members of the Israeli government at various times. Thoughts? Tiamut talk 21:11, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
Now Drmoos is deleting the same material Vrubel's Demons deleted [2]. Could we please stop pretending that there is misrepresentation going on here? The article states clearly that these are incidents reported to have been carried out by Israeli actors. The entries being deleted are reported to have been carried out by Israeli actors. That there is no official Israeli confirmation is to be expected given that secret services don't tend to confirm these kinds of things. Any doubts expressed in reliable sources can and should be noted, including official denials. But entires should not be summarily removed, particularly when they are reliably sourced and properly attributed. Please stop deleting these things without discussion and without regard for our policies on NPOV and RS. Tiamut talk 23:03, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
The first line of this article is The following is a list of assassinations reported to have been conducted by the state of Israel. Does anybody here seriously doubt that this was an assassination reported to have been conducted by Israel? When a reliable source explicitly says that The Israeli secret service Mossad has been widely accused of carrying out the killing? The text made clear that Israel had not confirmed that they did this, there is no cause for removal. nableezy - 23:05, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
These are all killings. There is no controversy as to whether they are killings.
There is controversy as to whether they are assassinations. A large number of the most RS sources -- professors and judges -- call them killings but not assassinations. That is because, among other things, assassinations are murder. Those RS sources do not believe the killings are either murder or assassinations.
This is quite clear for anyone who looks at the sources. If they need to see examples, I will be happy to provide them. For that reason, I am changing the word "assassinations" (disputed) to killings (undisputed).-- Epeefleche ( talk) 05:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
--
I disagree. The definition of assassination is according to Merriam-Webster "to murder (a usually prominent person) by sudden or secret attack often for political reasons". This definition holds regardless if murder is performed by a sniper rifle or a drone missile attack. The use of assassination is not controversial at all, on the contrary it is precisely in accordance with the dictionary. The use of [targeted killing] is controversial and disputed, as many (me included) refer to them as assassinations and believe it is simply an attempt to circumvent the legal rights and "baggage" that comes with concepts such as torture (advanced interrogation techniques) and prisoners of war (unlawful enemy combattants)
Gnurkel ( talk) 13:10, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
to include attempted assassinations, kidnappings and failures as well. Ie- Khalen Meshal in Amman,a nd the fella in Argentina. Lihaas ( talk) 06:33, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
I believe that the October 2010 killings should be removed from this list. Here is the description of what happened from the source:
The source is very clear that the Israelis approached these men in an attempt to arrest them, not to kill them, and that the killing was incidental. This is not an assassination. GabrielF ( talk) 01:36, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to remove Walid Obeidi from the list for the same reason listed above - it appears he was killed as the result of a gun battle with troops who came to arrest him, not assassinated. Here are two sources. CNN BBC GabrielF ( talk) 02:48, 26 December 2010 (UTC)
Some thoughts:
1) The Maxwell inclusion is highly dubious. I propose its deletion. 2) Some of the editorializing as to "in retaliation for" is unsourced, and needs sources or revision. 3) We should only inline the first instance of each word, such as Gaza. -- Epeefleche ( talk) 14:39, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
What should we do about Gerald Bull? We are stating definitively that he was assassinated by Mossad and citing a piece in the Irish Independent as a source. However, our own article on Gerald Bull says that nobody really knows who killed him and there are many suspects. The Irish Independent article [4] strikes me as very weak - it is very sensational and states as true many claims that are really just unproven allegations (for example, that Israel killed Imad Muganiyeh, or that Mossad has "tens of thousands" of Jewish helpers around the world. A much better source is a huge New York Times Magazine article (12 pages online) on the Bull case which says:
My preference is that we either delete Bull or, at the very least, explicitly state that this is a rumor. GabrielF ( talk) 16:03, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
It strikes me as though this is more of an accidental killing. NickCT ( talk) 22:17, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
An RFC on Talk:Death of Osama bin Laden is relevant to this article. The RFC was specifically located at: Talk:Death of Osama bin Laden/Archive 3#Rename to Assassination of Osama bin Laden. There was a clear consensus around the idea that if reliable sources don't indicate a clear attempt to kill someone (for instance if the order is to capture or kill if resisting) than the term "assassination" is inappropriate. We have reached a similar consensus on this article with regard to two cases described above.
According to contemporary press accounts, Massoud Ayyad's assassination took place on February 13, 2001, not February 3, as this article says. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicothewhiz ( talk • contribs) 20:14, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
please change the title. A good number of these assassinations are attributed to Israel without proof, or admission, and therefore to be balanced the title should read: List of Israeli assassinations, alleged or otherwise I don't think this is controversial. The title as it stands is grossly misleading. Nishidani ( talk) 10:38, 20 July 2012 (UTC)
Obviously assassination of terrorists killers who are hidden in third countries is NOT terorrism. It does not fall under terrorism definition (this acts are targeted against individuals, not innocent people, nor using bombs or attacking civilians). And by my part, I say a large BRAVO to Israel. It is a service to mandkind to eliminate these killers. -- 201.213.156.224 ( talk) 15:40, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Could someone now add the details of the assassination of Arafat by Polonium? There is now substantial evidence that this was an Israeli assassination - certainly in excess of the balance of probability.... 194.176.222.227 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:09, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
Regarding this:
| November 14, 2012 | Gaza Strip | [[Ahmed Jaabari]] | Commander of Hamas' military wing | Killed in an airstrike at the start of [[Operation Pillar of Cloud]]. Led Hamas' 2007 takeover of the Gaza Strip and, according to Israel, was responsible for most attacks on Israel originating in Gaza from about 2006 to 2012, including the capture of [[Gilad Shalit]].<ref>{{cite news|last=Kershner|first=Isabel|title=Ferocious Israeli Assault on Gaza Kills a Leader of Hamas|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/15/world/middleeast/israeli-strike-in-gaza-kills-the-military-leader-of-hamas.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0|accessdate=15 November 2012|newspaper=The New York Times|date=14 November 2012|author2=Fares Akram}}</ref> | IAF
We had "capturing" of Gilad Shalit, it was reverted (twice, I might add) to "kidnapping," and then I changed it to "capture," keeping the old verb but correcting the tense. Now, which should we use and why? I believe that "capture" is more neutral than "kidnap," as kidnapping is a particular kind of crime and it requires a particular kind of mindset during the actions which constitute it. I don't think the NYT made the right choice of word here. As I said, I think "capture" is more neutral than "kidnap," but I don't think it's perfect. It connotes (but doesn't denote) military action, and there are plausible reasons for assuming that allowing that connotation to stand violates NPOV. Perhaps someone more logopotent than I has a better suggestion?— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 00:45, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
The reliable source we use for this claim uses the verb "kidnap" (as do many others). That's what we should use.
Stuck in SD with Yaming (
talk)
01:27, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
There are no "sides" here. Would you like to clarify what you mean by "sides"? Anyway, your hijacking of this talk-page section and holding it hostage to impose your conditions isn't discussion, so I'll just wait for others to contribute.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 02:29, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Of course it is kidnapping, maybe you can show a source that supports your use of the work capture or revert it back. BernardZ ( talk)
First, let me propose that there are two separate issues here. First, whether "kidnapping" is the right word. Second, whether "capture" is the right word. There may be a better word than either. I'm still mulling over the second issue, but it's clear to me that using the word "kidnapping" violates NPOV. For a taking of a person to be kidnapping it must be illegal. For an act to be illegal there must be a codified legal system under which it's illegal. In this case the Israeli legal system considers the taking illegal, but it is highly disputed whether the Israeli legal system is legitimately applicable where the action took place. Thus using the word "kidnapping" is privileging one side of that dispute over the other and is thus a violation of NPOV. I'm not wedded to the word "capture," as I said at the beginning of this discussion, but we do need to find a word that's neutral with respect to the legality of the action. We don't have to say it was legal, but we choose either legal or illegal and say it definitively. The fact that the NYT uses the word "kidnapping" is a red herring. We rely on sources to tell us what happened, not how to describe it. The NYT is well-known for being less than balanced in its descriptions of the Israeli-Palestine situation.—
alf laylah wa laylah (
talk)
14:01, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Interesting side-note: Eichmann was "captured." And rightly so, too.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 01:43, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
BernardZ ( talk) 13:48, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
There are a large number of entries on this list, including about half of the 2000s entries, that have no citations at all. Normally, I'd remove them immediately, but since this is a highly contested area and such a removal would likely be reverted immediately, I will instead leave a message here. I'll give it some time for sources to be located and found, but if I come back to this page in a week and there are entries without sources, I am going to remove them per Template:Unconfirmed. I realize that such an action might not go over well, but there is nothing to stop them from being re-inserted with a source, which is the barrier to entry for all contested lists. Sven Manguard Wha? 20:26, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
.
This article quotes says the "ACLU refers to targeted killing programs as
The problem is that the link on the ACLU website refers only to American targeted killing programs (i.e. drone strikes). Clicking the link won't work because of a syntax error but the cited page is here: [8] I don't believe that the ACLU takes a position on international issues. I don't think its fair to use a quote from an organization that says one country's targeted killing program is "illegal" to imply that the organization believes another country's program is illegal - after all different countries have different laws. I'm removing the ACLU quote. GabrielF ( talk) 01:53, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Nishidani, I fixed most of these, but I left the ones linked to Gaza for you because it'll almost certainly be easier for you than for me to figure out what's wanted in those cases.— alf laylah wa laylah ( talk) 21:50, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
This is piddling, but it's hazardous to suggest, while flaunting one's own illiteracy, that someone else work on their grammar. Willi Winkler Der Schattenmann: von Goebbels zu Carlos : das mysteriöse Leben des François Genoud, Rowohlt, 2011 p.247 adopts in the present tense on both Klein's thesis and Haddad as follows:
'Der mit Geheimdiensten vertraute Autor Aaron J. Klein glaubt zu wissen, dass Haddad vom Mossad ermordet wurde, ein Verdacht, der in dieser paranoiden Welt des Verrats und der ständig wechselnden Loyalitäten naheliegt.'
Note the narrative present tense. (My only contact with boy scouts occurred when I was 9 years old, when I was told to punch one up if I wanted to join a gang. Unfortunately I did, and knocked him flat out. Fortunately, I was then inducted into the gang.) Nishidani ( talk) 19:07, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
' Schama cites Emmanuel Van Meteren, Belgische ofte Nederlantsche Historian van Onser Tidjen, (1605)'. Susan James, Spinoza on Philosophy, Religion, and Politics, Oxford University Press 2012 p.264 n.13
' Judt cites Israeli authors to bolster his argument.' Elhanan Yakira, Post-Zionism, Post-Holocaust: Three Essays on Denial, Forgetting, and the Delegitimation of Israel Cambridge University Press 2010 p.322.
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