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Oy. Can somebody fix this format? I don't have the time to do it right now. -- Zoe
Is there any reason to keep presidents (post 19th sentury) in messed-up non-tabular format? Can I fix them? -- grin 09:45 26 May 2003 (UTC)
Uhm Vancouverguy, please keep kings and presidents separately. And don't drop informations, either include them (IMHO better) or save them if they're valid. Or if you only make formatting changes do not change the content. Thanks. -- grin 19:14, 5 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I have just finished the table of all rulers before 1918 but still need the original poster of the untabluated format to provide some in depth information on the following, which Google search didn't provide any relevant idea:
Also all links of Ladislas are changed to Ladislaus since
the las links will be redirected to laus -- User:kt2
Was Béla IV really widely nicknamed "the Great"? Nagy? -- Joy [shallot]
It was Béla III. who was refered as the Great in the medieval period. Though modern historiography do not use this epithet. Laszlo
Isn't Károlyi Mihály called Michael Károlyi in alot of English language history books? PMA 15:32, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It makes no difference, you can rename him.
Also, some kings' Hungarian names are mentioned in parentheses, and some of them are mentioned by their anglicized name only. Why? Alensha 21:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
We should either separate this list into several smaller lists or rename it. Right now it has tribal leaders, mediaeval kings, Transylvanian princes, Fascist and Communist leaders, revolutioners and 21st century presidents all in one article. It makes an interesting history but a messy WP article. At least we should rename it because no one would classify László Sólyom as a "ruler of Hungary" (the power of the president is only formal.) Alensha 15:56, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I think it's enough, but a separate List of Presidents of Hungary page should be created, as well, since it now redirects to this page (which is bad). – I wonder what relation the post-1918 list could have with the list of presidents. I think the list of regents and presidents and the list of heads of state page plus the template of presidents could be used as a basis for creating the list of presidents and maybe the post-1918 page. – See the category French heads of state as an example: there is a French monarchs and a Presidents of France category, each with its own list of office-holders. And, of course, remember to see the category Heads of state of Hungary, with its three subcategories (which are probably okay). -- Adam78 23:30, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I agree. Compared with other articles in the en wikipedia, this article is unsystematic, of course. In my opinion, there should be a list for princes and kings, for presidents, and for prime ministers. And, please, put the rulers of Transylvania (after 1526) into a separate article, too. Transylvania was politically a separate state, and this list confuses it with Hungary. I have been planning to do this for months, but I never "find the time" when I see the huge table (that's the big disadvantage of tables). Juro 01:40, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Note that already exists the article List of Transylvanian rulers. -- Adam78 01:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Oh...Then, maybe, the missing data from this table should be shifted there, so that we do not lose information. Juro 01:54, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
See the articles Heads of state of Hungary and List of Transylvanian rulers now. Corrections are welcomed. Alensha 11:58, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you very much! :) Adam78 21:32, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Well, Juro deleted again one of my edits without any explain.
So discuss what is the problem!
Peter (Orseolo) and Samuel (Aba) are traditionaly considered part of the Arpad dinasty by Hungarian historiography. (Even if in the strict senese they were not.) It is a fact. What is the problem with it?
Bye, Laszlo
Laszlo, you are completely right! I have never heard about "
Orseolo" or "
Aba" dynasty, rather
Arpads only. Please see the
list of English monarchs. There
King Stephen of Blois had a same relation to the
House of Normandy (son of the sister of the previous ruler) as
Peter Orseolo had to the
Arpads. Still, he is always mentioned as a member of the
House of Normandy, rather than
House of Blois.
All the best!
Peter
Vamos (
talk)
14:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I wonder whether it would not be better to change the template "Politics of Hungary" to "History of Hungary". The list of rulers ends in 1918, so the History template would be more appropriate. The Politics template is more suitable for Heads of state of Hungary.
Does this list refer, or is supposed to be reffering, to the rulers of an ethnie (i.e. Hungarian), or to the rulers of a polity (i.e. K.o.H.)? Avaring 12:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
193.224.129.230 23:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Srácok, az nem Zápolya, hanem Zapolya! Azért az ilyesmire odafigyelhetnétek, irgum-burgum!
Why do some sections end with a period, some with a semicolon, and others with nothing at all? This is an honest question; perhaps there is something I am missing. Contrarrevolucionario 06:41, 8 July 2007 (UTC) I have no idea, probably b/c the whole page is in this weird table format- Hobartimus 13:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Let me explain the changes I made:
Str1977 (smile back) 06:55, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, I don't want to mess up with the article, but there John II Sigismund Zápolya, the posthumus son of John I Zápolya is mentioned as Hungarian king elected. In 1620 Gabriel Bethlen was elected as well at the Diet in Besztercebánya. In 1621 in the Treaty of Nikolsburg he finally renounced the title, which actually he had never used, to the favor of Ferdinand II in exchange to grant full liberty of worship to the Hungarian protestants and other privileges to Transylvania and Upper Hungary. Maybe his name should be included as well. Vamos ( talk) 09:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Is nonsense. Otto was never the head of state of Hungary. He was the Crownprince, no more. ~Why are the post 1918 Regents and Presidents not mentioned here? Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 01:03, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move per request.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 02:06, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
List of rulers of Hungary → List of Hungarian monarchs, per List of English monarchs, List of French monarchs, List of German monarchs, List of Spanish monarchs, List of Polish monarchs, List of Swedish monarchs, List of Portuguese monarchs, List of Norwegian monarchs, List of Danish monarchs etc. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 23:36, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
Gabriel Bethlen is missing from the list, again. If we acknowledge John Sigismund as a Hungarian king we will definitely have to mention Bethlen in this article. Fakirbakir ( talk) 13:45, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
The table notes that Vladislaus I (aka Władysław III of Poland) is a "Fourth great-grandson of Béla IV". I've been poking around his genealogy a bit and don't see any obvious lines of descent from Bela to him -- it all seems to be Jagellions and Rurikids and even though I know the Arpads and Rurikids intermarried I can't find a direct link. Does anyone know what this refers to? -- Jfruh ( talk) 20:09, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Dear @ Jfruh:, please contact with Surtsicna. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 20:25, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Is this really needed? Do they still officially claim the throne? I doubt it. It looks like unimportant trivia. They were never Hungarian monarchs and this is a "List of Hungarian monarchs". I'll be bold and take them out for now. Qorilla ( talk) 19:28, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
Why don't we list co-regents? Ferdinand III, for instance, became king in 1625, and was primarily known as "the King of Hungary" for the next twelve years. These co-regencies ought to be listed, I think, especially since the individuals' own pages do so. john k ( talk) 19:14, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
I've been bold and added in the ones I could find. john k ( talk) 19:24, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
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Hi Norden1990! I have some remark about your recent edit. [1]
You renamed "Albert the Habsburg" to "Albert the Magnanimous", honestly I never heard this "Magnanimous" nickname in Hungary, Hungarian wiki and historiography use the "Habsburg Albert" [2] name, I think you know it. I do not doubt that in Austria or somewhere else this is his nickname, but we list here Hungarian monarchs and I think we should use the Hungarian nicknames for them. What do you think? OrionNimrod ( talk) 12:29, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Hi Norden1990, Borsoka!
I see many times this sentence: "all of the subsequent kings of Hungary (with the exception of King Matthias Corvinus) were cognatic descendants of the Árpád dynasty"
Btw I do not find Arpad connection to Vladislaus I. Perhaps do you know any? (I found many Arpad lineages to Sigismund, Mary, Albert) OrionNimrod ( talk) 13:21, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
I think it's important to present the relationship with the Árpáds regarding the non-Árpád dynasties, but only for the first members. So, it is valuable information that Charles I was the great-grandson of Stephen V, but it is irrelevant that Louis, his son, was the 2nd great-grandson of Stephen V. He succeeded the throne because he was the eldest son of the previous monarch Charles I. For Charles II, Sigismund, Albert, Vladislaus I, John I, we should present their family connections with the Árpáds, but in the case of the others, who are already direct descendants of a later ruler, it is enough to include the closest relative. In addition, if Sigismund is a 4th great grandson of Béla IV, the info that he is 5th great grandson of Béla III too, is meaningless since this shows a more distant relationship, moreover, through Béla IV, he is a descendant of Béla III and nearly all previous monarchs anyway. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 14:29, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
OrionNimrod ( talk) 15:01, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
I do not agree with this, this article is the list of Hungarian monarchs, not a genealogical chart. In medieval Hungarian kingdom, the blood oath (if there was one at all) was not taken into account in the election of the kings after the extinction of the Árpád dynasty. Regarding Louis I, it was irrelevant that he was the 2nd great-grandson of Stephen V of Hungary. He was crowned king because he was the eldest son of heir of the previous monarch Charles I. For those kings who came to the Hungarian throne in a difficult way (e.g. Charles I), it is important to note that Árpád blood ran through their veins. But I do not think that it is useful if the article would emphasize that Charles IV was the 24th great-grandson of Géza II (I just guessed the number). It is plausible, because of the long distance, that the last Habsburgs were connected to the Árpád dynasty in dozens of ways. However, a systematic listing of this would be completely pointless. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 15:58, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article contains a translation of Magyarország uralkodóinak listája from hu.wikipedia. |
Oy. Can somebody fix this format? I don't have the time to do it right now. -- Zoe
Is there any reason to keep presidents (post 19th sentury) in messed-up non-tabular format? Can I fix them? -- grin 09:45 26 May 2003 (UTC)
Uhm Vancouverguy, please keep kings and presidents separately. And don't drop informations, either include them (IMHO better) or save them if they're valid. Or if you only make formatting changes do not change the content. Thanks. -- grin 19:14, 5 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I have just finished the table of all rulers before 1918 but still need the original poster of the untabluated format to provide some in depth information on the following, which Google search didn't provide any relevant idea:
Also all links of Ladislas are changed to Ladislaus since
the las links will be redirected to laus -- User:kt2
Was Béla IV really widely nicknamed "the Great"? Nagy? -- Joy [shallot]
It was Béla III. who was refered as the Great in the medieval period. Though modern historiography do not use this epithet. Laszlo
Isn't Károlyi Mihály called Michael Károlyi in alot of English language history books? PMA 15:32, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It makes no difference, you can rename him.
Also, some kings' Hungarian names are mentioned in parentheses, and some of them are mentioned by their anglicized name only. Why? Alensha 21:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
We should either separate this list into several smaller lists or rename it. Right now it has tribal leaders, mediaeval kings, Transylvanian princes, Fascist and Communist leaders, revolutioners and 21st century presidents all in one article. It makes an interesting history but a messy WP article. At least we should rename it because no one would classify László Sólyom as a "ruler of Hungary" (the power of the president is only formal.) Alensha 15:56, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I think it's enough, but a separate List of Presidents of Hungary page should be created, as well, since it now redirects to this page (which is bad). – I wonder what relation the post-1918 list could have with the list of presidents. I think the list of regents and presidents and the list of heads of state page plus the template of presidents could be used as a basis for creating the list of presidents and maybe the post-1918 page. – See the category French heads of state as an example: there is a French monarchs and a Presidents of France category, each with its own list of office-holders. And, of course, remember to see the category Heads of state of Hungary, with its three subcategories (which are probably okay). -- Adam78 23:30, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I agree. Compared with other articles in the en wikipedia, this article is unsystematic, of course. In my opinion, there should be a list for princes and kings, for presidents, and for prime ministers. And, please, put the rulers of Transylvania (after 1526) into a separate article, too. Transylvania was politically a separate state, and this list confuses it with Hungary. I have been planning to do this for months, but I never "find the time" when I see the huge table (that's the big disadvantage of tables). Juro 01:40, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Note that already exists the article List of Transylvanian rulers. -- Adam78 01:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Oh...Then, maybe, the missing data from this table should be shifted there, so that we do not lose information. Juro 01:54, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
See the articles Heads of state of Hungary and List of Transylvanian rulers now. Corrections are welcomed. Alensha 11:58, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you very much! :) Adam78 21:32, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Well, Juro deleted again one of my edits without any explain.
So discuss what is the problem!
Peter (Orseolo) and Samuel (Aba) are traditionaly considered part of the Arpad dinasty by Hungarian historiography. (Even if in the strict senese they were not.) It is a fact. What is the problem with it?
Bye, Laszlo
Laszlo, you are completely right! I have never heard about "
Orseolo" or "
Aba" dynasty, rather
Arpads only. Please see the
list of English monarchs. There
King Stephen of Blois had a same relation to the
House of Normandy (son of the sister of the previous ruler) as
Peter Orseolo had to the
Arpads. Still, he is always mentioned as a member of the
House of Normandy, rather than
House of Blois.
All the best!
Peter
Vamos (
talk)
14:08, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I wonder whether it would not be better to change the template "Politics of Hungary" to "History of Hungary". The list of rulers ends in 1918, so the History template would be more appropriate. The Politics template is more suitable for Heads of state of Hungary.
Does this list refer, or is supposed to be reffering, to the rulers of an ethnie (i.e. Hungarian), or to the rulers of a polity (i.e. K.o.H.)? Avaring 12:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
193.224.129.230 23:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)Srácok, az nem Zápolya, hanem Zapolya! Azért az ilyesmire odafigyelhetnétek, irgum-burgum!
Why do some sections end with a period, some with a semicolon, and others with nothing at all? This is an honest question; perhaps there is something I am missing. Contrarrevolucionario 06:41, 8 July 2007 (UTC) I have no idea, probably b/c the whole page is in this weird table format- Hobartimus 13:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Let me explain the changes I made:
Str1977 (smile back) 06:55, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, I don't want to mess up with the article, but there John II Sigismund Zápolya, the posthumus son of John I Zápolya is mentioned as Hungarian king elected. In 1620 Gabriel Bethlen was elected as well at the Diet in Besztercebánya. In 1621 in the Treaty of Nikolsburg he finally renounced the title, which actually he had never used, to the favor of Ferdinand II in exchange to grant full liberty of worship to the Hungarian protestants and other privileges to Transylvania and Upper Hungary. Maybe his name should be included as well. Vamos ( talk) 09:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Is nonsense. Otto was never the head of state of Hungary. He was the Crownprince, no more. ~Why are the post 1918 Regents and Presidents not mentioned here? Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 01:03, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was move per request.-- Fuhghettaboutit ( talk) 02:06, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
List of rulers of Hungary → List of Hungarian monarchs, per List of English monarchs, List of French monarchs, List of German monarchs, List of Spanish monarchs, List of Polish monarchs, List of Swedish monarchs, List of Portuguese monarchs, List of Norwegian monarchs, List of Danish monarchs etc. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 23:36, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
Gabriel Bethlen is missing from the list, again. If we acknowledge John Sigismund as a Hungarian king we will definitely have to mention Bethlen in this article. Fakirbakir ( talk) 13:45, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
The table notes that Vladislaus I (aka Władysław III of Poland) is a "Fourth great-grandson of Béla IV". I've been poking around his genealogy a bit and don't see any obvious lines of descent from Bela to him -- it all seems to be Jagellions and Rurikids and even though I know the Arpads and Rurikids intermarried I can't find a direct link. Does anyone know what this refers to? -- Jfruh ( talk) 20:09, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Dear @ Jfruh:, please contact with Surtsicna. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 20:25, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Is this really needed? Do they still officially claim the throne? I doubt it. It looks like unimportant trivia. They were never Hungarian monarchs and this is a "List of Hungarian monarchs". I'll be bold and take them out for now. Qorilla ( talk) 19:28, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
Why don't we list co-regents? Ferdinand III, for instance, became king in 1625, and was primarily known as "the King of Hungary" for the next twelve years. These co-regencies ought to be listed, I think, especially since the individuals' own pages do so. john k ( talk) 19:14, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
I've been bold and added in the ones I could find. john k ( talk) 19:24, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
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Hi Norden1990! I have some remark about your recent edit. [1]
You renamed "Albert the Habsburg" to "Albert the Magnanimous", honestly I never heard this "Magnanimous" nickname in Hungary, Hungarian wiki and historiography use the "Habsburg Albert" [2] name, I think you know it. I do not doubt that in Austria or somewhere else this is his nickname, but we list here Hungarian monarchs and I think we should use the Hungarian nicknames for them. What do you think? OrionNimrod ( talk) 12:29, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Hi Norden1990, Borsoka!
I see many times this sentence: "all of the subsequent kings of Hungary (with the exception of King Matthias Corvinus) were cognatic descendants of the Árpád dynasty"
Btw I do not find Arpad connection to Vladislaus I. Perhaps do you know any? (I found many Arpad lineages to Sigismund, Mary, Albert) OrionNimrod ( talk) 13:21, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
I think it's important to present the relationship with the Árpáds regarding the non-Árpád dynasties, but only for the first members. So, it is valuable information that Charles I was the great-grandson of Stephen V, but it is irrelevant that Louis, his son, was the 2nd great-grandson of Stephen V. He succeeded the throne because he was the eldest son of the previous monarch Charles I. For Charles II, Sigismund, Albert, Vladislaus I, John I, we should present their family connections with the Árpáds, but in the case of the others, who are already direct descendants of a later ruler, it is enough to include the closest relative. In addition, if Sigismund is a 4th great grandson of Béla IV, the info that he is 5th great grandson of Béla III too, is meaningless since this shows a more distant relationship, moreover, through Béla IV, he is a descendant of Béla III and nearly all previous monarchs anyway. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 14:29, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
OrionNimrod ( talk) 15:01, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
I do not agree with this, this article is the list of Hungarian monarchs, not a genealogical chart. In medieval Hungarian kingdom, the blood oath (if there was one at all) was not taken into account in the election of the kings after the extinction of the Árpád dynasty. Regarding Louis I, it was irrelevant that he was the 2nd great-grandson of Stephen V of Hungary. He was crowned king because he was the eldest son of heir of the previous monarch Charles I. For those kings who came to the Hungarian throne in a difficult way (e.g. Charles I), it is important to note that Árpád blood ran through their veins. But I do not think that it is useful if the article would emphasize that Charles IV was the 24th great-grandson of Géza II (I just guessed the number). It is plausible, because of the long distance, that the last Habsburgs were connected to the Árpád dynasty in dozens of ways. However, a systematic listing of this would be completely pointless. -- Norden1990 ( talk) 15:58, 17 August 2023 (UTC)