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First of all Brazil is not part of Hispania. Ibero-America would include Brazil. See Hispanic America. Second of all, Spanish people and people who are European who happen to live in Latin or Central America are NOT Hispanic. Knowing many people who are "Mexican", but who's whole families recently came from Spain or other European countries, they are considered white, not hispanic. The term Latin can refer to people of Spain, Italy, France, etc. People who are mestizo can also be called Latin, but the term "Latino" is used more; which is also used interchangeably with "Hispanic" to describe race. "Latino" and "Hispanic" are used to describe people of mixed ethnicity - Spanish (European) mixed with Native or Native and African. "Hispanic" also refers to the region, culture and language of Spanish-speaking countries, but when referring to race, hispanic is not used. A person from Spain is a Spaniard and a white European.
Do NOT add Spanish people to this list. Spaniards are not Hispanic in terms of race. The term used is Spaniard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_America DOES NOT REFER TO PEOPLE FROM SPAIN. I will be forced to report those who add back Spaniards to the Hispanic American lists if this continues.
Also, there are many white cubans, Argentineans who are not of native descent (may be Italian, etc.), and other European peoples who are not mestizo who are from Latin American countries. I feel that keeping their nationality is sufficient enough for a category. For instance Argentinean-American vs. Hispanic-American. I will consider the deletion of these other nationalities only after further discussion on the List of Hispanic Americans page. Because the definition refers to those from Central and South America who are not Portuguese. I feel whites from Latin America are NOT Hispanic, however, especially if they are recent immigrants to Latin American countries and are European.-- CreativeSoul7981 ( talk) 03:38, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I see where you're coming from in reference to this particular article because it looks like Spanish people are grouped with Hispanics to beef up the Hispanic categories (this applies to real life groups as well). But, I disagree on the general Hispanic-American list. "Latin" is used differently than "Latino", though it means the same in Spanish. "Latino" is used for mestizos and in this country is really used interchangeably with Hispanic. Most people see Hispanics as mestizos. "Latin" refers to anyone who is of Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, or French heritage. Hispanic America has it's own page, White Hispanics have their own page. I don't know why there is no differentiation. Hispanic refers to culture from Spanish-language countries with ties to Spain. But, in terms of race, White-Hispanics who don't have native or African heritage, are just white. I don't call Spanish people White Hispanic. I call them Spaniards and white Europeans. Portuguese aren't even Hispanic, but Iberian. They don't speak Spanish. Why add the Portuguese and Italian man back. Italians aren't Hispanic either. I'd welcome your input here. -- CreativeSoul7981 ( talk) 17:53, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Okay, it seems you did leave out the Portuguese and Italian men I had deleted. -- CreativeSoul7981 ( talk) 17:56, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
"Hispanic" is not a racial category. It does not matter how "most people see Hispanics." The fact that virtually anyone of any race or ethnicity with ancestors who passed through the former Spanish Empire is categorized as "Hispanic" only reveals how broad this category is. But it is a category we have in this country, therefore all members of congress who fit in this category should be here. Personally, I think it is far more informative to identify members of congress as Mexican American, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Spanish, Sephardic Jewish, or so on than as part of a broad category that mainly emerged in the 1970s. (For instance, did Judah P. Benjamin ever identify as part of an ethnic grouping that included Mexican or Cuban people?)
24.167.52.195 (
talk) 23:51, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
I deleted Charles Rangel. He might be half-Puerto Rican by blood, but even that is disputed, and it's definitely no part of his identity. Nowhere on his own page is he referred to as Hispanic, except in a footnote about the disputation; I think this page should draw on what that page says, and any arguments/edits take place there. -- Minivet ( talk) 22:40, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Charles Rangel's father was from Ponce, Puerto Rico. Says who? Says the New York Times in an article published on September 10, 2008: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/nyregion/11spanish.html ("Mr. Rangel himself is part Hispanic; his father, Ralph Rangel Sr., was born in Ponce, Puerto Rico, though he left the family when Mr. Rangel was 6."). In Puerto Rico, Rangel (pronounced "ran-HELL") is not a very common surname, but it is well known (in fact, the first wife of the late Gov. Luis A. Ferré was a Rangel). I know that references to Ralph Rangel, Sr. of Ponce, Puerto Rico being Charles Rangel's father were recently removed from Wikipedia, but, in fact, an 18-year-old single male named Rafael Rangel ("Rafael" is the Spanish-language version of "Ralph") arrived in Ellis Island on October 17, 1917 on a ship that had departed from San Juan, Puerto Rico (even though Puerto Ricans had just been made U.S. citizens, travelers from PR to New York still had to stop in Ellis Island in those days): http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passRecord.asp?LNM=RANGEL&PLNM=RANGEL&CGD=M&first_kind=1&last_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=46&pID=610225010297&MID=09516497760151207552& I don't have access to the U.S. Census data that used to be posted on Wikipedia as evidence of Ralph Rangel, Sr. being originally from Ponce, Puerto Rico, but if it indeed showed Ralph, Sr. as having been born circa 1899 then it's probable that we're talking about the same person here.
I fail to see why a Congressman whose father was born in Puerto Rico to Puerto Rican parents and raised in Puerto Rico until he left at the age of 18 should be excluded from a list of Hispanic members of Congress. It wasn't that his father happened to be born in Puerto Rico (to non-Puerto Rican parents) and moved away as a young child, à la Joaquin Phoenix; Ralph Rangel, Jr. appears to have been a bona fide Puerto Rican. Charles Rangel is Hispanic, and should not be removed from the article. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 01:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Delegates Manuel L. Quezón of Philippines, Ron de Lugo of Virgin Islands, Vicente T. Blaz and Robert A. Underwood of Guam, and Gregorio Sablan of Northern Marina Islands are included on this list. But that seems to be on the basis of ancestry and/or membership in the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, whereas being Hispanic or Latino American is about place of origin, specifically it's about having origins in Hispanic America or Spain. See Hispanic and Latino Americans for a more complete treatment of this.
I'm really not sure yet how to deal with them. Does anyone else have an opinion? SamEV ( talk) 23:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Ron de Lugo's father was a Puerto Rican who lived in the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Ron de Lugo actually went to high school in Puerto Rico. He was also a long-time member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. His inclusion should not be controversial.
As for the Delegates from Guam and the Northern Marianas and the Resident Commissioner from the Philippines . . . yes, that's not quite as cut-and-dried. I added Quezón because he was noted for being a mestizo (of both Spanish and Filipino descent) and, in fact, looked more mestizo than Filipino (unlike the other Resident Commissioner from the Philippines, almost all of whom have Spanish names but about whom I could not find evidence of being of Spanish ancestry).
U.S. territories are part of America. Someone who is of not insignificant Spanish descent who was raised in America would almost certainly be considered Hispanic, so it seems odd to exclude Blaz, Underwood and Sablan just because they were born and raised in Guam or the Northern Marianas. And, the way I see it, Quezón has at least as good a claim of being Hispanic as Blaz, and an even better claim than Underwood and Sablan (who appear to be Chamorros with some Spanish ancestry), because Quezón was a mestizo born and raised in a Spanish colony that became part of America in 1898.
Perhaps someone who is more knowledgable about Chamorro and Filipino culture could chime in and halp us decide whether Chamorro or Filipinos with not-insignificant Spanish ancestry are considered Hispanic. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 02:04, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
SamEV, you wrote "Going by immediate place of origin is much more in keeping with the definition of "Hispanic or Latino."" If you could explain to me what that means, and how it applies to Hispanics born and raised in the U.S., maybe I'd agree with you.
It's an easy case when someone is born in the U.S. both of whose parents were born and raised in Mexico or Cuba or some other Latin American country, even if the grandparents were from Spain or some other Old World country; not as easy when someone's parents came directly from Spain, since there would be no tie to a "Latin American" country. It's weird line-drawing, really: no one doubts that former Senator (and current Secretary of the Interior) Ken Salazar, whose ascendants emigrated from Spain to the Southwest U.S. in the 1500s, is Hispanic, and no one doubts that former Texas solicitor general (and current U.S. Senate candidate) Ted Cruz, who was born in Canada to a Cuban father and non-Hispanic American mother, is Hispanic, but Charles Rangel is not deemd by many to be Hispanic even though his father was born and raised in Puerto Rico for the simple reason that Ralph (Rafael) Rangel, Sr. married a black woman instead of a white woman, and the fact that Rangel is (incontrovertibly) black makes it impossible for some people to accept that he's *also* Hispanic. (I guess that Roberto Clemente was lucky that he was born in Puerto Rico, not the U.S. mainland, and that it was his mother, not his father, whose last name was Walker, since otherwise his blackness and "American-sounding" name might be deemed by some to nullify his Hispanicness.) Hispanics can be of any race (as the U.S. Census famously proclaims), and they can be as white as Alexis Bledel and as black as Alfonso Soriano and every shade in between, so we need to get away from the way of thinking that leads to saying things like "Rangel is Hispanic? I thought he was black"? Being Hispanic and black, or Hispanic and white, or Hispanic and Asian (think former Peruvian president Alberto Fujimori), are not mutually exclusive. If we start excluding half-Hispanics like Rangel based on some purity test I think we'd be surpised with the who would also be excluded.
By the way, I chose to include Congressman Charles Rangel but not former Senator John Sununu, Jr. on the list of Hispanic congressmen because I recognize that lines have to be drawn regarding how far back someone's Hispanic connection goes. Rangel's father was born and raised in Puerto Rico, so I thought that he should be included; Sununu's father was born (but not raised) in Cuba to a an Arab father (of both Palestinian and Lebanese extraction) and a Salvadoran (born and raised) mother (of Lebanese and Greek extraction). I would consider John Sununu, Sr. to be Hispanic because of his Salvadoran mother (although his Cuban birth doesn't hurt, either), but believe that one Hispanic grandparent is not enough for the younger Sununu to qualify. Yes, it's arbitrary, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, and I think that the line should be closer than having just one Hispanic grandparent but not so close that it excludes someone with a Hispanic father.
Regarding the partially Spanish-descended delegates from Guam, the Northern Marianas and the Philippines, I really don't know how they should be treated, but it seems to me that either they all should go in or none should. So, SamEV, I don't really object to you eliminating all of them; as I said before, I'd like to get the input of Chamorros and Filipinos regarding whether Chamorros and Filipinos of partial Hispanic descent should be considered Hispanic. However, I fail to see why former USVI Delegate Ron de Lugo, whose father was Puerto Rican (the Virgin Islands are right next to Puerto Rico and hundreds of Puerto Ricans moved back and forth between PR and the VI during the 19th and 20th centuries), who spent some of his formative years in Puerto Rico (he attended and graduated from the same high school as future Puerto Rico Resident Commissioner and Governor Aníbal Acevedo-Vilá) and who was a longtime member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, should be excluded from a list of Hispanic congressmen.
But I'm not going to add anyone else to the page; I'll leave it to others to decide who is Hispanic and thus should belong on the list. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 14:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
SamEV, Ron de Lugo joined the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, and is not of Portuguese descent, nor did he represent a constituency with a substantial Hispanic presence, so I assume that he considered himself to be Hispanic. Of course, that someone consider himself Hispanic should not, by itself, settle the issue, since it also matters how other people view the person: Congressman Trent Franks considers himself to be Mexican-America (maybe he had a Mexican grandparent, I don't know), but I don't think that many Hispanics view him as being Hispanic. But De Lugo was accepted in the Congressional Hispanic Caucus without any "Portuguese-American caveat" or anything, so I think that he was viewed as being Hispanic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AuH2ORepublican ( talk • contribs) 13:56, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Sorry about forgetting to sign my March 22 comment. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 14:11, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Richard Pombo and David Valadao are not a Hispanic or Latino, so they should not be included on the list of Hispanic and Latinos since they are Portuguese Americans. Brazilians are Latinos, but not Portuguese. Only Brazilians; Spanish, who by the way are Hispanics, but not Latinos; Latin Americans; and their descendants should be included in the list. Willminator ( talk) 23:37, 26 December 2013 (UTC) P.S: I decided to do the work in deleting Richard Pombo and David Valadao from the list. Willminator ( talk) 01:11, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
It's lacking. For example, why do the Senators get an ancestry/POB column, but the representatives don't? -- 96.241.77.157 ( talk) 17:03, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
@ AuH2ORepublican, Filipinos and Chamorro born before the Spanish-American War are Hispanic because they were born in Spanish territory. Spain even recognizes this by provisions regarding the Philippines in the Spanish nationality law. By definition of jus sanguinis Hispanic, Nahua peoples of Mexico are not Hispanic if they are of 100% indigenous blood even if they were born in Mexican territory or spoke Spanish.
Besides that, the peoples of Guam and the Philippines spoke Spanish, particularly the educated political class. It was impossible get formal schooling and not speak Spanish in those territories because that was the language of public instruction. They were at least Hispanicized. With regards to present-day Chamorro, Gregorio Sablan is a member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus which implies Hispanic identity. Shhhhwwww!! ( talk) 07:19, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
He was born to Basque parents, so he would be considered Hispanic. MB298 ( talk) 04:10, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
Which illustrates how dumb this category is. Two men from Basque villages that are five miles apart on the Franco-Spanish border are somehow "racially" distinct in the U.S.A.? 70.115.184.213 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:32, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
According to the only reliable sources regarding Adalice Leite (Congresswoman-elect Lori Trahan's paternal grandmother), she was born in Bahia, Brazil (to Azorean parents) and, when her mother died, was sent to her aunt's home in Graciosa (in the Azores), where she was "raised" by her aunt. None of the reliable sources (either in English or Portuguese) state at what age Adalice Leite moved from Bahia to Graciosa, but if it was as a young girl then I certainly understand the insistence of some editors that Lori Trahan is not actually of Brazilian descent. While I am the editor who had added Trahan to the article (as a member elect) because of the reliable sources pointing to her paternal grandmother, Adalice Leite, being Brazilian, I now believe that we should wait for a reliable source that states that Adalice Leite (whose parents weren't Brazilian themselves) wasn't merely born in Brazil but raised there as well before we include Trahan on the list of Hispanic or Latino members of Congress. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 21:37, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
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I have started a talk page discussion at Talk:John H. Sununu about whether John E. Sununu (who is on this list), John H. Sununu, and Chris Sununu are Hispanic/Latino. Please feel free to visit Talk:John H. Sununu to participate. SunCrow ( talk) 23:46, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Would he go with Lujan or a separate section since he’s appointed and not elected? Caciquedelcibao ( talk) 18:28, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
It seems that there is a disagreement on whether to list Alex Padilla in this article until his official appointment. Should Padilla be added to this list now based on reliable sources [5] [6] [7] stating he will be appointed as a senator from California or should we wait until his official appointment? Fundude99 talk to me 00:55, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
Based on the press gallery list [1] it appears that Devin Nunes, Jim Costa, David Valadao, and Lori Trahan are listed there but not in this article. Is there a reason for this discrepancy? Interestingly, the Press Gallery list omits Mike Garcia and Teresa Leger Fernandez. Yrg8033 ( talk) 07:00, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
The Spanish origins of Joseph Montoya were removed in this edit with the summary "as for Montoya, of course he has Spanish ancestry, but so does every other Mexican, Cuban and Puerto Rican on this list". This is not entirely true. Not all Hispanic and Latino Americans are descended from Spaniards, though almost all of them are assimilated to a culture from Spain. The Hispanos of New Mexico are a separate ethnic group whose culture is mainly derived from Spain. They will have a different experience in life to the Chicanos who identify with being mestizo, and obviously a different experience of life in the US to Afro-Latinos like Ritchie Torres. The assumption that all Hispanic and Latino Americans are of Spanish origin also makes invisible those like John E. Sununu whose ancestors came from a Spanish-speaking country, but were Arabs. Unknown Temptation ( talk) 14:41, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
I added former U.S. representative Antonio Delgado, who identifies as Afro-Latino and has Mexican, Venezuelan and Colombian roots via his maternal grandmother and his mother's maiden name is Thelma Gomez. here. There has been criticism about how he identifies his ethnicity, but reliable sources nonetheless do generally refer to him as Latino per here and here. cookie monster 755 04:10, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
@ Vladimir.copic, being a Sephardic Jew (i.e., a descendant of Jews expelled from Spain or Portugal in the 15th century) is not sufficient to be considered Hispanic. I have removed other Sephardic Jews added to the article, but kept Judah P. Benjamin and David Levy Yulee because they were from Judeo-Spanish (Ladino) speaking families who kept their language and culture for centuries after they were expelled from Spain in the late 15th century. It is their Spanish ancestry, not their Sephardic Judaism, that would qualify them as Hispanic. "Sephardic" is not a Hispanic ancestry, so either Benjamin's and Yulee's "Hispanic or Latino Ancestry" should be listed as "Spanish," or they should be removed from the article.
I've never been very comfortable with Benjamin and Yulee being included in the article, but could see the point of the editor who added Benjamin (whose family history is almost identical to Yulee's--coincidentally, their parents were friends in Saint Croix when they lived there), and I certainly didn't want to remove someone because he was a Spanish Jew instead of a Spanish Catholic. I guess that I'm agnostic as to whether they should (i) be listed as "Spanish" and stay or (ii) be removed; the only aspects on which I feel strongly are that Benjamin and Yulee should be treated the same and that "Sephardic" is not a Hispanic or Latino ancestry. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 02:42, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Google john garamendi hispanic, as easy as that. 62.99.89.51 ( talk) 12:06, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
His Lower Navarrese mother was from a French and Spanish border condominium. Irony intended, of course. 62.99.89.51 ( talk) 12:09, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
If anyone wants to help with pictures, which I don’t know how to do that would be great. 162.247.88.242 ( talk) 01:44, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
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Lori Trahan describes herself (at least in some sources) as being "the granddaughter of Brazilian and Portuguese immigrants" [9] [10]. I understand that Portuguese-Americans (not Hispanic or Latino) are not listed on this page, but I thought that her partial Brazilian background (Latino) is what is relevant here. As a member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, the CHC BOLD PAC endorsed Trahan's re-election campaign [11]. TJMSmith ( talk) 13:26, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
Brand new congressman John Duarte requires a picture sadly it seems I am having trouble with it. If anyone can help me that would be great. 98.216.87.171 ( talk) 03:19, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
Firstly, Frost is not Cuban, so somebody needs to stop adding that. Being adopted by somebody does not make you a member of their race or ethnicity. His page also lists him as half-Puerto Rican (of Lebanese descent), so is he even Hispanic at all? Shouldn't he be put under Middle Eastern if that is his ethnicity? 74.104.221.2 ( talk) 22:55, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
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First of all Brazil is not part of Hispania. Ibero-America would include Brazil. See Hispanic America. Second of all, Spanish people and people who are European who happen to live in Latin or Central America are NOT Hispanic. Knowing many people who are "Mexican", but who's whole families recently came from Spain or other European countries, they are considered white, not hispanic. The term Latin can refer to people of Spain, Italy, France, etc. People who are mestizo can also be called Latin, but the term "Latino" is used more; which is also used interchangeably with "Hispanic" to describe race. "Latino" and "Hispanic" are used to describe people of mixed ethnicity - Spanish (European) mixed with Native or Native and African. "Hispanic" also refers to the region, culture and language of Spanish-speaking countries, but when referring to race, hispanic is not used. A person from Spain is a Spaniard and a white European.
Do NOT add Spanish people to this list. Spaniards are not Hispanic in terms of race. The term used is Spaniard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic_America DOES NOT REFER TO PEOPLE FROM SPAIN. I will be forced to report those who add back Spaniards to the Hispanic American lists if this continues.
Also, there are many white cubans, Argentineans who are not of native descent (may be Italian, etc.), and other European peoples who are not mestizo who are from Latin American countries. I feel that keeping their nationality is sufficient enough for a category. For instance Argentinean-American vs. Hispanic-American. I will consider the deletion of these other nationalities only after further discussion on the List of Hispanic Americans page. Because the definition refers to those from Central and South America who are not Portuguese. I feel whites from Latin America are NOT Hispanic, however, especially if they are recent immigrants to Latin American countries and are European.-- CreativeSoul7981 ( talk) 03:38, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
I see where you're coming from in reference to this particular article because it looks like Spanish people are grouped with Hispanics to beef up the Hispanic categories (this applies to real life groups as well). But, I disagree on the general Hispanic-American list. "Latin" is used differently than "Latino", though it means the same in Spanish. "Latino" is used for mestizos and in this country is really used interchangeably with Hispanic. Most people see Hispanics as mestizos. "Latin" refers to anyone who is of Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, or French heritage. Hispanic America has it's own page, White Hispanics have their own page. I don't know why there is no differentiation. Hispanic refers to culture from Spanish-language countries with ties to Spain. But, in terms of race, White-Hispanics who don't have native or African heritage, are just white. I don't call Spanish people White Hispanic. I call them Spaniards and white Europeans. Portuguese aren't even Hispanic, but Iberian. They don't speak Spanish. Why add the Portuguese and Italian man back. Italians aren't Hispanic either. I'd welcome your input here. -- CreativeSoul7981 ( talk) 17:53, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
Okay, it seems you did leave out the Portuguese and Italian men I had deleted. -- CreativeSoul7981 ( talk) 17:56, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
"Hispanic" is not a racial category. It does not matter how "most people see Hispanics." The fact that virtually anyone of any race or ethnicity with ancestors who passed through the former Spanish Empire is categorized as "Hispanic" only reveals how broad this category is. But it is a category we have in this country, therefore all members of congress who fit in this category should be here. Personally, I think it is far more informative to identify members of congress as Mexican American, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Spanish, Sephardic Jewish, or so on than as part of a broad category that mainly emerged in the 1970s. (For instance, did Judah P. Benjamin ever identify as part of an ethnic grouping that included Mexican or Cuban people?)
24.167.52.195 (
talk) 23:51, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
I deleted Charles Rangel. He might be half-Puerto Rican by blood, but even that is disputed, and it's definitely no part of his identity. Nowhere on his own page is he referred to as Hispanic, except in a footnote about the disputation; I think this page should draw on what that page says, and any arguments/edits take place there. -- Minivet ( talk) 22:40, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Charles Rangel's father was from Ponce, Puerto Rico. Says who? Says the New York Times in an article published on September 10, 2008: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/nyregion/11spanish.html ("Mr. Rangel himself is part Hispanic; his father, Ralph Rangel Sr., was born in Ponce, Puerto Rico, though he left the family when Mr. Rangel was 6."). In Puerto Rico, Rangel (pronounced "ran-HELL") is not a very common surname, but it is well known (in fact, the first wife of the late Gov. Luis A. Ferré was a Rangel). I know that references to Ralph Rangel, Sr. of Ponce, Puerto Rico being Charles Rangel's father were recently removed from Wikipedia, but, in fact, an 18-year-old single male named Rafael Rangel ("Rafael" is the Spanish-language version of "Ralph") arrived in Ellis Island on October 17, 1917 on a ship that had departed from San Juan, Puerto Rico (even though Puerto Ricans had just been made U.S. citizens, travelers from PR to New York still had to stop in Ellis Island in those days): http://www.ellisisland.org/search/passRecord.asp?LNM=RANGEL&PLNM=RANGEL&CGD=M&first_kind=1&last_kind=0&TOWN=null&SHIP=null&RF=46&pID=610225010297&MID=09516497760151207552& I don't have access to the U.S. Census data that used to be posted on Wikipedia as evidence of Ralph Rangel, Sr. being originally from Ponce, Puerto Rico, but if it indeed showed Ralph, Sr. as having been born circa 1899 then it's probable that we're talking about the same person here.
I fail to see why a Congressman whose father was born in Puerto Rico to Puerto Rican parents and raised in Puerto Rico until he left at the age of 18 should be excluded from a list of Hispanic members of Congress. It wasn't that his father happened to be born in Puerto Rico (to non-Puerto Rican parents) and moved away as a young child, à la Joaquin Phoenix; Ralph Rangel, Jr. appears to have been a bona fide Puerto Rican. Charles Rangel is Hispanic, and should not be removed from the article. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 01:48, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
Delegates Manuel L. Quezón of Philippines, Ron de Lugo of Virgin Islands, Vicente T. Blaz and Robert A. Underwood of Guam, and Gregorio Sablan of Northern Marina Islands are included on this list. But that seems to be on the basis of ancestry and/or membership in the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, whereas being Hispanic or Latino American is about place of origin, specifically it's about having origins in Hispanic America or Spain. See Hispanic and Latino Americans for a more complete treatment of this.
I'm really not sure yet how to deal with them. Does anyone else have an opinion? SamEV ( talk) 23:27, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Ron de Lugo's father was a Puerto Rican who lived in the U.S. Virgin Islands, and Ron de Lugo actually went to high school in Puerto Rico. He was also a long-time member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. His inclusion should not be controversial.
As for the Delegates from Guam and the Northern Marianas and the Resident Commissioner from the Philippines . . . yes, that's not quite as cut-and-dried. I added Quezón because he was noted for being a mestizo (of both Spanish and Filipino descent) and, in fact, looked more mestizo than Filipino (unlike the other Resident Commissioner from the Philippines, almost all of whom have Spanish names but about whom I could not find evidence of being of Spanish ancestry).
U.S. territories are part of America. Someone who is of not insignificant Spanish descent who was raised in America would almost certainly be considered Hispanic, so it seems odd to exclude Blaz, Underwood and Sablan just because they were born and raised in Guam or the Northern Marianas. And, the way I see it, Quezón has at least as good a claim of being Hispanic as Blaz, and an even better claim than Underwood and Sablan (who appear to be Chamorros with some Spanish ancestry), because Quezón was a mestizo born and raised in a Spanish colony that became part of America in 1898.
Perhaps someone who is more knowledgable about Chamorro and Filipino culture could chime in and halp us decide whether Chamorro or Filipinos with not-insignificant Spanish ancestry are considered Hispanic. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 02:04, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
SamEV, you wrote "Going by immediate place of origin is much more in keeping with the definition of "Hispanic or Latino."" If you could explain to me what that means, and how it applies to Hispanics born and raised in the U.S., maybe I'd agree with you.
It's an easy case when someone is born in the U.S. both of whose parents were born and raised in Mexico or Cuba or some other Latin American country, even if the grandparents were from Spain or some other Old World country; not as easy when someone's parents came directly from Spain, since there would be no tie to a "Latin American" country. It's weird line-drawing, really: no one doubts that former Senator (and current Secretary of the Interior) Ken Salazar, whose ascendants emigrated from Spain to the Southwest U.S. in the 1500s, is Hispanic, and no one doubts that former Texas solicitor general (and current U.S. Senate candidate) Ted Cruz, who was born in Canada to a Cuban father and non-Hispanic American mother, is Hispanic, but Charles Rangel is not deemd by many to be Hispanic even though his father was born and raised in Puerto Rico for the simple reason that Ralph (Rafael) Rangel, Sr. married a black woman instead of a white woman, and the fact that Rangel is (incontrovertibly) black makes it impossible for some people to accept that he's *also* Hispanic. (I guess that Roberto Clemente was lucky that he was born in Puerto Rico, not the U.S. mainland, and that it was his mother, not his father, whose last name was Walker, since otherwise his blackness and "American-sounding" name might be deemed by some to nullify his Hispanicness.) Hispanics can be of any race (as the U.S. Census famously proclaims), and they can be as white as Alexis Bledel and as black as Alfonso Soriano and every shade in between, so we need to get away from the way of thinking that leads to saying things like "Rangel is Hispanic? I thought he was black"? Being Hispanic and black, or Hispanic and white, or Hispanic and Asian (think former Peruvian president Alberto Fujimori), are not mutually exclusive. If we start excluding half-Hispanics like Rangel based on some purity test I think we'd be surpised with the who would also be excluded.
By the way, I chose to include Congressman Charles Rangel but not former Senator John Sununu, Jr. on the list of Hispanic congressmen because I recognize that lines have to be drawn regarding how far back someone's Hispanic connection goes. Rangel's father was born and raised in Puerto Rico, so I thought that he should be included; Sununu's father was born (but not raised) in Cuba to a an Arab father (of both Palestinian and Lebanese extraction) and a Salvadoran (born and raised) mother (of Lebanese and Greek extraction). I would consider John Sununu, Sr. to be Hispanic because of his Salvadoran mother (although his Cuban birth doesn't hurt, either), but believe that one Hispanic grandparent is not enough for the younger Sununu to qualify. Yes, it's arbitrary, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, and I think that the line should be closer than having just one Hispanic grandparent but not so close that it excludes someone with a Hispanic father.
Regarding the partially Spanish-descended delegates from Guam, the Northern Marianas and the Philippines, I really don't know how they should be treated, but it seems to me that either they all should go in or none should. So, SamEV, I don't really object to you eliminating all of them; as I said before, I'd like to get the input of Chamorros and Filipinos regarding whether Chamorros and Filipinos of partial Hispanic descent should be considered Hispanic. However, I fail to see why former USVI Delegate Ron de Lugo, whose father was Puerto Rican (the Virgin Islands are right next to Puerto Rico and hundreds of Puerto Ricans moved back and forth between PR and the VI during the 19th and 20th centuries), who spent some of his formative years in Puerto Rico (he attended and graduated from the same high school as future Puerto Rico Resident Commissioner and Governor Aníbal Acevedo-Vilá) and who was a longtime member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, should be excluded from a list of Hispanic congressmen.
But I'm not going to add anyone else to the page; I'll leave it to others to decide who is Hispanic and thus should belong on the list. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 14:07, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
SamEV, Ron de Lugo joined the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, and is not of Portuguese descent, nor did he represent a constituency with a substantial Hispanic presence, so I assume that he considered himself to be Hispanic. Of course, that someone consider himself Hispanic should not, by itself, settle the issue, since it also matters how other people view the person: Congressman Trent Franks considers himself to be Mexican-America (maybe he had a Mexican grandparent, I don't know), but I don't think that many Hispanics view him as being Hispanic. But De Lugo was accepted in the Congressional Hispanic Caucus without any "Portuguese-American caveat" or anything, so I think that he was viewed as being Hispanic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AuH2ORepublican ( talk • contribs) 13:56, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Sorry about forgetting to sign my March 22 comment. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 14:11, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Richard Pombo and David Valadao are not a Hispanic or Latino, so they should not be included on the list of Hispanic and Latinos since they are Portuguese Americans. Brazilians are Latinos, but not Portuguese. Only Brazilians; Spanish, who by the way are Hispanics, but not Latinos; Latin Americans; and their descendants should be included in the list. Willminator ( talk) 23:37, 26 December 2013 (UTC) P.S: I decided to do the work in deleting Richard Pombo and David Valadao from the list. Willminator ( talk) 01:11, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
It's lacking. For example, why do the Senators get an ancestry/POB column, but the representatives don't? -- 96.241.77.157 ( talk) 17:03, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
@ AuH2ORepublican, Filipinos and Chamorro born before the Spanish-American War are Hispanic because they were born in Spanish territory. Spain even recognizes this by provisions regarding the Philippines in the Spanish nationality law. By definition of jus sanguinis Hispanic, Nahua peoples of Mexico are not Hispanic if they are of 100% indigenous blood even if they were born in Mexican territory or spoke Spanish.
Besides that, the peoples of Guam and the Philippines spoke Spanish, particularly the educated political class. It was impossible get formal schooling and not speak Spanish in those territories because that was the language of public instruction. They were at least Hispanicized. With regards to present-day Chamorro, Gregorio Sablan is a member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus which implies Hispanic identity. Shhhhwwww!! ( talk) 07:19, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
He was born to Basque parents, so he would be considered Hispanic. MB298 ( talk) 04:10, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
Which illustrates how dumb this category is. Two men from Basque villages that are five miles apart on the Franco-Spanish border are somehow "racially" distinct in the U.S.A.? 70.115.184.213 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 04:32, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
According to the only reliable sources regarding Adalice Leite (Congresswoman-elect Lori Trahan's paternal grandmother), she was born in Bahia, Brazil (to Azorean parents) and, when her mother died, was sent to her aunt's home in Graciosa (in the Azores), where she was "raised" by her aunt. None of the reliable sources (either in English or Portuguese) state at what age Adalice Leite moved from Bahia to Graciosa, but if it was as a young girl then I certainly understand the insistence of some editors that Lori Trahan is not actually of Brazilian descent. While I am the editor who had added Trahan to the article (as a member elect) because of the reliable sources pointing to her paternal grandmother, Adalice Leite, being Brazilian, I now believe that we should wait for a reliable source that states that Adalice Leite (whose parents weren't Brazilian themselves) wasn't merely born in Brazil but raised there as well before we include Trahan on the list of Hispanic or Latino members of Congress. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 21:37, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
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I have started a talk page discussion at Talk:John H. Sununu about whether John E. Sununu (who is on this list), John H. Sununu, and Chris Sununu are Hispanic/Latino. Please feel free to visit Talk:John H. Sununu to participate. SunCrow ( talk) 23:46, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Would he go with Lujan or a separate section since he’s appointed and not elected? Caciquedelcibao ( talk) 18:28, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
It seems that there is a disagreement on whether to list Alex Padilla in this article until his official appointment. Should Padilla be added to this list now based on reliable sources [5] [6] [7] stating he will be appointed as a senator from California or should we wait until his official appointment? Fundude99 talk to me 00:55, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
Based on the press gallery list [1] it appears that Devin Nunes, Jim Costa, David Valadao, and Lori Trahan are listed there but not in this article. Is there a reason for this discrepancy? Interestingly, the Press Gallery list omits Mike Garcia and Teresa Leger Fernandez. Yrg8033 ( talk) 07:00, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
The Spanish origins of Joseph Montoya were removed in this edit with the summary "as for Montoya, of course he has Spanish ancestry, but so does every other Mexican, Cuban and Puerto Rican on this list". This is not entirely true. Not all Hispanic and Latino Americans are descended from Spaniards, though almost all of them are assimilated to a culture from Spain. The Hispanos of New Mexico are a separate ethnic group whose culture is mainly derived from Spain. They will have a different experience in life to the Chicanos who identify with being mestizo, and obviously a different experience of life in the US to Afro-Latinos like Ritchie Torres. The assumption that all Hispanic and Latino Americans are of Spanish origin also makes invisible those like John E. Sununu whose ancestors came from a Spanish-speaking country, but were Arabs. Unknown Temptation ( talk) 14:41, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
I added former U.S. representative Antonio Delgado, who identifies as Afro-Latino and has Mexican, Venezuelan and Colombian roots via his maternal grandmother and his mother's maiden name is Thelma Gomez. here. There has been criticism about how he identifies his ethnicity, but reliable sources nonetheless do generally refer to him as Latino per here and here. cookie monster 755 04:10, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
@ Vladimir.copic, being a Sephardic Jew (i.e., a descendant of Jews expelled from Spain or Portugal in the 15th century) is not sufficient to be considered Hispanic. I have removed other Sephardic Jews added to the article, but kept Judah P. Benjamin and David Levy Yulee because they were from Judeo-Spanish (Ladino) speaking families who kept their language and culture for centuries after they were expelled from Spain in the late 15th century. It is their Spanish ancestry, not their Sephardic Judaism, that would qualify them as Hispanic. "Sephardic" is not a Hispanic ancestry, so either Benjamin's and Yulee's "Hispanic or Latino Ancestry" should be listed as "Spanish," or they should be removed from the article.
I've never been very comfortable with Benjamin and Yulee being included in the article, but could see the point of the editor who added Benjamin (whose family history is almost identical to Yulee's--coincidentally, their parents were friends in Saint Croix when they lived there), and I certainly didn't want to remove someone because he was a Spanish Jew instead of a Spanish Catholic. I guess that I'm agnostic as to whether they should (i) be listed as "Spanish" and stay or (ii) be removed; the only aspects on which I feel strongly are that Benjamin and Yulee should be treated the same and that "Sephardic" is not a Hispanic or Latino ancestry. AuH2ORepublican ( talk) 02:42, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Google john garamendi hispanic, as easy as that. 62.99.89.51 ( talk) 12:06, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
His Lower Navarrese mother was from a French and Spanish border condominium. Irony intended, of course. 62.99.89.51 ( talk) 12:09, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
If anyone wants to help with pictures, which I don’t know how to do that would be great. 162.247.88.242 ( talk) 01:44, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
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Lori Trahan describes herself (at least in some sources) as being "the granddaughter of Brazilian and Portuguese immigrants" [9] [10]. I understand that Portuguese-Americans (not Hispanic or Latino) are not listed on this page, but I thought that her partial Brazilian background (Latino) is what is relevant here. As a member of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, the CHC BOLD PAC endorsed Trahan's re-election campaign [11]. TJMSmith ( talk) 13:26, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
Brand new congressman John Duarte requires a picture sadly it seems I am having trouble with it. If anyone can help me that would be great. 98.216.87.171 ( talk) 03:19, 4 January 2023 (UTC)
Firstly, Frost is not Cuban, so somebody needs to stop adding that. Being adopted by somebody does not make you a member of their race or ethnicity. His page also lists him as half-Puerto Rican (of Lebanese descent), so is he even Hispanic at all? Shouldn't he be put under Middle Eastern if that is his ethnicity? 74.104.221.2 ( talk) 22:55, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
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