I'm trying to organise each section under three headers, where we can move them around as we decide. Please add your own comments. Note that I'm in the UK, and I expect the US slant on these to be different.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
keep Common word and practice in the UK.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
All three of these are sufficiently well-understood by most English speakers to qualify as true loanwords IMO. The toughest call is manga, but the slight difference in meaning (comics in general versus Japanese comics in particular) clinches it for me.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 13:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
文楽, a form of traditional Japanese
puppettheatre, performed by puppeteers, chanters, and
shamisen players.
keep This is highly obscure, but amongst puppeteers (I hang around with puppeteers) this style of life-size puppets worked by a single (visible) operator directly alongside them is termed bunraku in UK practice.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Personally, I haven't heard "bunraku" used outside of my Japanese classes. And this is the first time I ever heard of "bokeh"
LlamaDude78 (
talk) 14:27, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Blumenthal, Eileen (2005). Puppetry and Puppets. Thames & Hudson. p. 81.
ISBN0-500-51226-4. describes a 1983 Netherlands performance The Trees of Life by Figurentheater Triangel with "bunraku-type puppets". p. 43 also suggests that it's a fairly common form amongst street performers in Buenos Aires (dancer and bunraku puppet partner).
Andy Dingley (
talk) 15:15, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
オタク or おたく or ヲタク, a geeky enthusiast, especially of
anime and
manga (note that the Japanese usage has a much stronger negative connotation than the Western usage).
keep Common word and practice in the UK, at least in comic shops.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I'd disagree with this: the term was sufficiently unfamiliar for a general English audience that, for instance, the character of Otacon in Metal Gear Solid had to be provided with a significant additional explanation in the English release explaining his name. It's not a word I'd expect to see used without such an explanation outside of specialist publications in English.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 13:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I am on the fence about this one.
LlamaDude78 (
talk) 14:22, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Metal Gear Solid dates (AFAIK) from 14 years ago. Things have changed since then.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 14:42, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Recognised as commonly in use, but is the concept absorbed into non-Japanese culture?
俳句 listenⓘ, a very short
poem consisting of three lines of 5, 7, and 5
morae (not
syllables as commonly thought) each; see also tanka below.
Both of the above are sufficiently well-understood by single-language English speakers to qualify as genuine loan words. It doesn't really matter that the concepts themselves are still perceived to be Japanese: what matters is that English speakers have, by and large, chosen to adopt the Japanese words for them over their own.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:03, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I agree with Chris on this one for haiku and bonsai.
LlamaDude78 (
talk) 14:24, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
It has far more significance than just geography though. It's a well-known style of porcelain, exported into the UK and collected in the 18th century (Satsuma similarly). Its influence also shows up in home-produced
Crown Derby wares. This is only going to be known amongst antique collectors, but within that group it's a well-known term.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 14:48, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I didn't say it wasn't a well-known word. I said that I didn't think it was really a loan word on accounts of following a very common structure for products manufactured in a particular geographic region. I don't think names structured in this format are typically considred to be loan words, not least because they're often protected against generalisation (e.g. Champagne).
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 09:33, 14 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Look at the Crown Derby pieces though. They're described as "imari", despite having lost any connection to a Japanese location. It's like Bulgarian Champagne - EC rules notwithstanding, we take this "methode champenois" wine and call it champagne, knowing that it is similar in function but no longer has any geographical link.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 11:19, 14 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Source added to the article to suggest that this finds common use in political metaphor in the United States at least. Definite keeper.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:08, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
切り紙, similar to
origami, but involves cutting in addition to folding.
I don't think this is as commonly understood as origami. In general, this is simply referred to as papercraft in English AFAIK.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:08, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Against I collect woodblocks. Only amongst other collectors do I hear this word used. Likewise sumi-e.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Agreed with Chris. The only reason why I know any of these is because of classes I have taken on the subjects.
LlamaDude78 (
talk) 14:51, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
看板, literally a "signal" or "sign" signals a cycle of replenishment for production and materials and maintains an orderly and efficient flow of materials throughout the entire manufacturing process. Part of Six Sigma
One of a large number of quality system terms used in industry, of Japanese origin but adopted, usually under their original name, as the practice appears in the West.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Mostly used in fiction or serious economic discussion, but this term is fairly commonly used in the UK, and it's applied extensively to non-Japanese companies (especially South Korean) too.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
着物, a traditional full-length robe-like garment still worn by women, men and children
Long history in the UK, since around 1870, and so misunderstood as to have become thoroughly naturalised by now. Although the British can't tell a kimono from a cheongsam or an ao dai, the word is used.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Used in reference to the Japanese practice, but is the concept at all common outside Japan?
印籠 inrō, a case for holding small objects, often worn hanging from the obi; (traditional Japanese clothes didn't have pockets)
Oppose Not uncommon amongst collectors and the antique trade (although not so common as netsuke), but only used in this context and still not understood widely.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
あずき or 小豆 listenⓘ, type of bean grown in eastern Asia and the Himalayas, used in Chinese, Korean, and Japanese cuisines, usually served sweet
Found in "health food" cookbooks going back to the early '70s. Rarely cooked in the sweetened forms of their native cuisine. This is a bean that has entered the culture and brought its word along with it, but not its recipes.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
弁当 bentō, a single-portion takeout meal, box lunch
Best known amongst hipsters and my parent's generation wouldn't know it, but you will find bento on the high streets of most decent UK cities these days.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
銀杏 or ぎんなん ginnan, a gymnospermous tree (Ginkgo biloba) of eastern China that is widely grown as an ornamental or shade tree and has fan-shaped leaves and yellow fruit (the word is derived from 17th Century Japanese 銀杏 ginkyō)
Fairly well known, at least in health food shops.
Andy Dingley (
talk)
Common in the UK since the 19th century. So common that few would now recognise the Japanese origin.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
麴 or 麹 kōji, a fungus which is the active agent in the fermentation processes, of producing
miso and
soy sauce from soybeans, and of producing
sake and
shōchū from rice.
松茸, a type of edible mushroom, with a magnificently spicy aroma similar to cinnamon, considered to be a great delicacy and the most coveted mushroom in Japan
パン粉, Japanese white bread flakes. Panko is made from bread without crusts, thus it has a crisper, airier texture than most types of breading found in Western cuisine.
Oppose Common in the UK, but I think the origins are from China, not Japan. Japanese soy variants (shoyu, tamari) are still obscure.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
すき焼き or スキヤキ, a dish in the nabemono-style (one-pot), consisting of thinly sliced beef, tofu, konnyaku noodles, negi, Chinese cabbage (bok choy), and enoki mushrooms among others
照り焼き or テリヤキ, a cooking technique where fish or meat is being broiled/grilled in a sweet soy sauce marinade; in Japanese, it is used exclusively refer to poultry cooked in this manner.
帝, a dated term for "emperor"; specifically for the Emperor of Japan
Another one that came to England with the first wave of Japonisme in the 1870s, no-one knows what it means, but it's widely recognised as a word.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
将軍 shōgunlistenⓘ, the title of the practical ruler of Japan for most of the time from 1192 to the Meiji Era
When it can be used decontextualised as a car model name, that's a word that has already entered the language.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I disagree. Would the man on the street be able to give even an approximately correct answer to "what is a shogun" if asked, other than "a type of 4WD"? A brand name is simply a brand name.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
The "man on the street" would probably get as close as "Chinese emperor" or somesuch. Which isn't really that far from the truth, as an "oriental potentate", filtered through the man on the street's usual inaccuracies. James Clavell's novel came out in the mid '70s. Oddly, from his other novel titles, tai-pan hasn't become anywhere near as well-known (it had a flurry of use after a Somerset Maugham novel in the '20s) and even gaijin isn't well enough known to appear on this page.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 14:53, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
All of these are widely known and used amongst people who wish to discuss a bonze passing a torii (which would be an ecumenical matter). However not many British need to talk about such things, or have absorbed the concept outside of its original context.
公案 kōan, a paradoxial story or statement used during meditation in
Zen Buddhism
Popular amongst hipsters, if not the general population.
Brian Eno used it as the brandname for
a music generation program in the '90s. Admittedly Brian Eno (the Chuck Norris of music) is all-knowing and all-wise anyway, but it shows that he thought the term had enough widespread recognition back then to be a useful name.
Andy Dingley (
talk)
神風, the literal meaning is "divine wind"; used to refer to a Japanese soldier in World War II who crashed an airplane into an target, committing suicide; also refers to the airplane used in the suicide crash
(from 人力車 jinrikisha/ninryokusha), a human-pulled wagon
sayonara
左様なら or さようなら sayōnara the Japanese term for "goodbye" (note, though, that in Japanese, it has formal and final connotations: one would not say it if one expects to meet again soon)
(from 漆 or うるし urushi, a plant that gives a skin rash on contact) a chemical substance found in
poison-ivy, used to make lacquer-ware
An English language chemical term for the ingredient, derived from the Japanese term urushi for the finished wares.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
変態 listenⓘ, Western usage: pornographic Anime, usually either Japanese in origin or drawn in a Japanese style; Japanese usage: metamorphosis, transformation, abnormality, or perversion
I would argue that this has been fully adopted as a generic term for "cartoon pornography" in the English-speaking West, and not necessarily with any Japanese connotations (other than that Japan is an, erm, prolific exporter of such works).
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
In use in some circles, but perhaps not as well known as
otaku.
Andy Dingley (
talk)
I wouldn't argue that this is at all widely-understood outside of specialist circles. There are plenty of English words for the same thing.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
先生, the Japanese term for "master", "teacher" or "doctor". It can be used to refer to any authority figure, such as a schoolteacher, professor, priest, or politician.
Very likely to be understood by that portion of the editing community which watched Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on Saturday mornings during the Eighties, but I wouldn't think it to be generally understood. The language already has plenty of equaivalent words.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Probably better known in the martial arts community than turtles. I know of no equivalent word in English. Amongst those who use it at all, the additional connotations of the meaning are used very specifically and with great care.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 14:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
The Turtles were martial artists. :) Seriously, though: martial arts incorporate dozens of bits of terminology directly from the original language, but these should probably be considered jargon if their use is specific to that activity.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 15:31, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I'm trying to organise each section under three headers, where we can move them around as we decide. Please add your own comments. Note that I'm in the UK, and I expect the US slant on these to be different.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
keep Common word and practice in the UK.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
All three of these are sufficiently well-understood by most English speakers to qualify as true loanwords IMO. The toughest call is manga, but the slight difference in meaning (comics in general versus Japanese comics in particular) clinches it for me.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 13:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
文楽, a form of traditional Japanese
puppettheatre, performed by puppeteers, chanters, and
shamisen players.
keep This is highly obscure, but amongst puppeteers (I hang around with puppeteers) this style of life-size puppets worked by a single (visible) operator directly alongside them is termed bunraku in UK practice.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Personally, I haven't heard "bunraku" used outside of my Japanese classes. And this is the first time I ever heard of "bokeh"
LlamaDude78 (
talk) 14:27, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Blumenthal, Eileen (2005). Puppetry and Puppets. Thames & Hudson. p. 81.
ISBN0-500-51226-4. describes a 1983 Netherlands performance The Trees of Life by Figurentheater Triangel with "bunraku-type puppets". p. 43 also suggests that it's a fairly common form amongst street performers in Buenos Aires (dancer and bunraku puppet partner).
Andy Dingley (
talk) 15:15, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
オタク or おたく or ヲタク, a geeky enthusiast, especially of
anime and
manga (note that the Japanese usage has a much stronger negative connotation than the Western usage).
keep Common word and practice in the UK, at least in comic shops.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I'd disagree with this: the term was sufficiently unfamiliar for a general English audience that, for instance, the character of Otacon in Metal Gear Solid had to be provided with a significant additional explanation in the English release explaining his name. It's not a word I'd expect to see used without such an explanation outside of specialist publications in English.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 13:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I am on the fence about this one.
LlamaDude78 (
talk) 14:22, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Metal Gear Solid dates (AFAIK) from 14 years ago. Things have changed since then.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 14:42, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Recognised as commonly in use, but is the concept absorbed into non-Japanese culture?
俳句 listenⓘ, a very short
poem consisting of three lines of 5, 7, and 5
morae (not
syllables as commonly thought) each; see also tanka below.
Both of the above are sufficiently well-understood by single-language English speakers to qualify as genuine loan words. It doesn't really matter that the concepts themselves are still perceived to be Japanese: what matters is that English speakers have, by and large, chosen to adopt the Japanese words for them over their own.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:03, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I agree with Chris on this one for haiku and bonsai.
LlamaDude78 (
talk) 14:24, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
It has far more significance than just geography though. It's a well-known style of porcelain, exported into the UK and collected in the 18th century (Satsuma similarly). Its influence also shows up in home-produced
Crown Derby wares. This is only going to be known amongst antique collectors, but within that group it's a well-known term.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 14:48, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I didn't say it wasn't a well-known word. I said that I didn't think it was really a loan word on accounts of following a very common structure for products manufactured in a particular geographic region. I don't think names structured in this format are typically considred to be loan words, not least because they're often protected against generalisation (e.g. Champagne).
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 09:33, 14 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Look at the Crown Derby pieces though. They're described as "imari", despite having lost any connection to a Japanese location. It's like Bulgarian Champagne - EC rules notwithstanding, we take this "methode champenois" wine and call it champagne, knowing that it is similar in function but no longer has any geographical link.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 11:19, 14 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Source added to the article to suggest that this finds common use in political metaphor in the United States at least. Definite keeper.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:08, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
切り紙, similar to
origami, but involves cutting in addition to folding.
I don't think this is as commonly understood as origami. In general, this is simply referred to as papercraft in English AFAIK.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:08, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Against I collect woodblocks. Only amongst other collectors do I hear this word used. Likewise sumi-e.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Agreed with Chris. The only reason why I know any of these is because of classes I have taken on the subjects.
LlamaDude78 (
talk) 14:51, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
看板, literally a "signal" or "sign" signals a cycle of replenishment for production and materials and maintains an orderly and efficient flow of materials throughout the entire manufacturing process. Part of Six Sigma
One of a large number of quality system terms used in industry, of Japanese origin but adopted, usually under their original name, as the practice appears in the West.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Mostly used in fiction or serious economic discussion, but this term is fairly commonly used in the UK, and it's applied extensively to non-Japanese companies (especially South Korean) too.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
着物, a traditional full-length robe-like garment still worn by women, men and children
Long history in the UK, since around 1870, and so misunderstood as to have become thoroughly naturalised by now. Although the British can't tell a kimono from a cheongsam or an ao dai, the word is used.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Used in reference to the Japanese practice, but is the concept at all common outside Japan?
印籠 inrō, a case for holding small objects, often worn hanging from the obi; (traditional Japanese clothes didn't have pockets)
Oppose Not uncommon amongst collectors and the antique trade (although not so common as netsuke), but only used in this context and still not understood widely.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
あずき or 小豆 listenⓘ, type of bean grown in eastern Asia and the Himalayas, used in Chinese, Korean, and Japanese cuisines, usually served sweet
Found in "health food" cookbooks going back to the early '70s. Rarely cooked in the sweetened forms of their native cuisine. This is a bean that has entered the culture and brought its word along with it, but not its recipes.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
弁当 bentō, a single-portion takeout meal, box lunch
Best known amongst hipsters and my parent's generation wouldn't know it, but you will find bento on the high streets of most decent UK cities these days.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
銀杏 or ぎんなん ginnan, a gymnospermous tree (Ginkgo biloba) of eastern China that is widely grown as an ornamental or shade tree and has fan-shaped leaves and yellow fruit (the word is derived from 17th Century Japanese 銀杏 ginkyō)
Fairly well known, at least in health food shops.
Andy Dingley (
talk)
Common in the UK since the 19th century. So common that few would now recognise the Japanese origin.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
麴 or 麹 kōji, a fungus which is the active agent in the fermentation processes, of producing
miso and
soy sauce from soybeans, and of producing
sake and
shōchū from rice.
松茸, a type of edible mushroom, with a magnificently spicy aroma similar to cinnamon, considered to be a great delicacy and the most coveted mushroom in Japan
パン粉, Japanese white bread flakes. Panko is made from bread without crusts, thus it has a crisper, airier texture than most types of breading found in Western cuisine.
Oppose Common in the UK, but I think the origins are from China, not Japan. Japanese soy variants (shoyu, tamari) are still obscure.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
すき焼き or スキヤキ, a dish in the nabemono-style (one-pot), consisting of thinly sliced beef, tofu, konnyaku noodles, negi, Chinese cabbage (bok choy), and enoki mushrooms among others
照り焼き or テリヤキ, a cooking technique where fish or meat is being broiled/grilled in a sweet soy sauce marinade; in Japanese, it is used exclusively refer to poultry cooked in this manner.
帝, a dated term for "emperor"; specifically for the Emperor of Japan
Another one that came to England with the first wave of Japonisme in the 1870s, no-one knows what it means, but it's widely recognised as a word.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
将軍 shōgunlistenⓘ, the title of the practical ruler of Japan for most of the time from 1192 to the Meiji Era
When it can be used decontextualised as a car model name, that's a word that has already entered the language.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I disagree. Would the man on the street be able to give even an approximately correct answer to "what is a shogun" if asked, other than "a type of 4WD"? A brand name is simply a brand name.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
The "man on the street" would probably get as close as "Chinese emperor" or somesuch. Which isn't really that far from the truth, as an "oriental potentate", filtered through the man on the street's usual inaccuracies. James Clavell's novel came out in the mid '70s. Oddly, from his other novel titles, tai-pan hasn't become anywhere near as well-known (it had a flurry of use after a Somerset Maugham novel in the '20s) and even gaijin isn't well enough known to appear on this page.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 14:53, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
All of these are widely known and used amongst people who wish to discuss a bonze passing a torii (which would be an ecumenical matter). However not many British need to talk about such things, or have absorbed the concept outside of its original context.
公案 kōan, a paradoxial story or statement used during meditation in
Zen Buddhism
Popular amongst hipsters, if not the general population.
Brian Eno used it as the brandname for
a music generation program in the '90s. Admittedly Brian Eno (the Chuck Norris of music) is all-knowing and all-wise anyway, but it shows that he thought the term had enough widespread recognition back then to be a useful name.
Andy Dingley (
talk)
神風, the literal meaning is "divine wind"; used to refer to a Japanese soldier in World War II who crashed an airplane into an target, committing suicide; also refers to the airplane used in the suicide crash
(from 人力車 jinrikisha/ninryokusha), a human-pulled wagon
sayonara
左様なら or さようなら sayōnara the Japanese term for "goodbye" (note, though, that in Japanese, it has formal and final connotations: one would not say it if one expects to meet again soon)
(from 漆 or うるし urushi, a plant that gives a skin rash on contact) a chemical substance found in
poison-ivy, used to make lacquer-ware
An English language chemical term for the ingredient, derived from the Japanese term urushi for the finished wares.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 13:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)reply
変態 listenⓘ, Western usage: pornographic Anime, usually either Japanese in origin or drawn in a Japanese style; Japanese usage: metamorphosis, transformation, abnormality, or perversion
I would argue that this has been fully adopted as a generic term for "cartoon pornography" in the English-speaking West, and not necessarily with any Japanese connotations (other than that Japan is an, erm, prolific exporter of such works).
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
In use in some circles, but perhaps not as well known as
otaku.
Andy Dingley (
talk)
I wouldn't argue that this is at all widely-understood outside of specialist circles. There are plenty of English words for the same thing.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
先生, the Japanese term for "master", "teacher" or "doctor". It can be used to refer to any authority figure, such as a schoolteacher, professor, priest, or politician.
Very likely to be understood by that portion of the editing community which watched Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on Saturday mornings during the Eighties, but I wouldn't think it to be generally understood. The language already has plenty of equaivalent words.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 14:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Probably better known in the martial arts community than turtles. I know of no equivalent word in English. Amongst those who use it at all, the additional connotations of the meaning are used very specifically and with great care.
Andy Dingley (
talk) 14:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply
The Turtles were martial artists. :) Seriously, though: martial arts incorporate dozens of bits of terminology directly from the original language, but these should probably be considered jargon if their use is specific to that activity.
Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (
talk) 15:31, 13 August 2012 (UTC)reply