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The Daedalus will have a bigger role on Stargate Atlantis than the Prometheus on Stargate SG-1, so I think this separate Daedalus page should be kept and not merged. WayneC
there are three ships, not two. we only saw one get hit and the front blow up.... there is still a possiblity that some of it survived. we dont know for sure... so i say we keep it as 3 current active ships... 206.113.23.187 14:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
one was destroyed. theres no doubt about that. MarineCorps 13:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
really? cause if one was destoyed then either mitchell and daniel die or teal'c dies... i say it got damaged, but i need to re watch the episode to make sure, i dont think the entire ship blows up. Xornok 19:16, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Daniel and Mitchell were on the Korolev, Teal'c was on a Jaffa Ship. -
59.167.32.221 12:53, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
RJ: The oddyssy is still ok. The russian vessel got destroyed throu the first ori attack. This info is based on the facts which stands on gateworld.net about the 10th season.. but i would prefer to wait until its clear which one was destroyed.
I believe that the Odyssey was destroyed. Destroying the Korelov means risking the loss of up to three main(ish) characters: Colonel Mitchell, Daniel Jackson and Colonel Chekov. There weren't any main characters on the Odyssey. RG
Far as I'm aware nothing is known of the Korelev other then it exists. Has it said that it is a Daedalus class? MarineCorps 19:48, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Gateworld spoilers say it's Daedalus class 59.167.6.100 10:54, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
The only thing gateworld says on the Korelev is this"Carter radios the Ori ships in the hopes of contacting any survivors of the Korelev, an Earth ship apparently destroyed by the Ori (probably how Daniel wound up on board). Daniel finds his radio and responds, assuring Sam that he made it okay. He and Vala hope to zat Adria and capture her." MarineCorps 23:17, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
You have to visit the blogs of the executive producers, not just read the simple spoilers the site admins left in the episode guide. 59.167.6.100 01:16, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I have. Even googled the word korelev for gateworld and the only thing it turned up was the spoilers in the episode guide. So unless you can provide a link I can only assume this is speculation at this point. MarineCorps 03:34, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I also saw that. However that might have been a flash back. Wait till next friday before taking any action. MarineCorps 18:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't be surprised if the Korelev is somewhat between a Prometheus and Daedalus. Its Russian and doesn't have to be an identical design to USAF ships. Alyeska 18:37, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Gen. Landry specifically refers to the ship they had to give to the russians as a "304", unless they created a new prefix, an F-304 refers to Daedalus class vessels, while the Prometheus is an F-303. Cheezykins 10:15, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
F means fighter. The 304 and 303 are Battlecruisers therefore BC MarineCorps 02:30, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Prometheus has "BC-303" written on the side of it's hull, or at lesat it did until it's hull started orbiting Tegalus in a debris field. the letter suffix infront of a ship's numerical classification represents the role the craft plays. X = eXperimental, F = Fighter, A = Assault, B = Bomber, etc... Since this is an airforce show, and it's already been shown with Prometheus as a BC 303, that the Daedalus would be BC. Additionally, the simple fact that it's too large to be a fighter, prompts it to be called BC-304. - 59.167.11.69 09:11, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
If the Korolev was destroyed and the Odyssey wasn't, remember, both ships have Asgard beaming capability, so they can beam all the crew of one ship to another, in which case Daniel and Cameron won't die. Sorani172 01:27, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
The article says 20 days, however in Season 2 Episode 2 of Atlantis (The Intruder), one of the opening comments is that it takes 18 days to travel from Earth to Atlantis. Does anyone wish to verify? Steven 03:32, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
In the second episode of the 2nd season of Atlantis it was stated they were 18 days into their trip and that they had an additional 2 days before they reached Atlantis. This is a twenty day trip. Alyeska 05:31, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Apparently people are still a little confused on the subject of travel time. The Daedalus was stated to be 18 days into the trip with an additional 2 days to Atlantis. This is a travel time of 20 days, not 18. Stop editing 20 back to 18, its a wrong number. Alyeska 03:21, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
It seems that people are still having a hard time figuring out the travel times. I've had to correct it once again. The travel time between Atlantis and Earth is 20 days, not 18. The episode in question had Daedalus 18 days from Earth, but still another 2 to get to Atlantis. Alyeska 21:21, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
It's amazing that the number of times they say, both on Earth and Atlantis that the travel time is 18 days. The number in "Intruder" may have been a mistake in the script. in "Ripple Effect", "Prometheus Unbound" and "Critical Mass" the trip takes 18 days, or is the older BC-303 faster then it's sucessor? 59.167.6.100 01:10, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Prometheus Unbound said it would take about a month. In in the SG1 episode with the multiple SG1 teams, Prometheus was said to take 3 weeks to reach Atlantis. The 18 day figure comes purely from Intruder. The actual time length is 20 days, and comments of three weeks travel time fits 20 days. 18 days would be only two and a half weeks. Alyeska 05:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Other then that single statement of travel time in Intruder which states 18 days, can someone find me any other example of the stated travel time for the Daedalus? I've looked for the trascript of Intruder and found that the wording of 18 days could be interpreted as 18 days total, or only 18 days with 2 to go. I know Prometheus was said to be 3 to get to Atlantis, and in theory it should be just as fast as the Daedalus. Any other stated travel times of 18 days and I will concede the issue and accept it. But if this single statement from Intruder is all we have, and with a longer travel time for Prometheus (3 weeks is awfuly close to 20 days) I'm inclined to read the 18 days as 18 days traveled and then take the statement later in the episode which says 2 days to Atlantis left. Alyeska 05:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Here's a transcript, perhaps the one you mention: http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/transcripts/202.shtml
From right near the beginning:
and only a little later on:
I can see how this is ambiguous, Weir could mean either that they've been in the ship for eighteen days or that the trip takes eighteen days in total.
Here's a transcript for Critical Mass: http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/transcripts/213.shtml Prometheus Unbound: http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s8/transcripts/812.shtml and Ripple Effect: http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/transcripts/913.shtml - I did a search for the words "eighteen" or "twenty" and didn't find anything relevant to travel time, but didn't do an exhaustive search. Have I missed anything? Bryan 07:46, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Well Ripple Effect had the statement "about three weeks" and "next three weeks" stated. I hesitate to say that 18 days is 3 weeks. Thats 2 and a half weeks. 20 days is close enough to call it 3 weeks. Anyway, thats my gut call on the issue. From the evidence available, it appears that 20 days is an accurate assesment of the travel time. This does make the assumption that Daedalus and Prometheus move at the same speed. So if someone else wants to contest this, I can't really argue either. Alyeska 02:11, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
This article needs to be renamed either Daedalus class battle cruiser or Daedalus (Stargate).
—wwoods 18:05, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
I know it's picky, but the article talks about /plural/ battlecruisers, doesn't it? - Cws125 09:31, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
In the interests of verifiability would someone mind pointing to the screenshot that shows the BC-02 hull number? AlistairMcMillan 20:05, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
BC-02 is a combination of things. The Daedalus has a hull number of 02. The BC was added in the front using traditional naval naming. Such as CVN-65. Ship number 65, CVN type. The BC part was inferred from the use of established military conventions without being directly seen. The same as BC-302 was inferred (and just so happened to be correct) before it was confirmed. Feel free to remove it if you want. I am starting to think the Deep Space Carrier might be the only real designation we can use. Technicaly, the ship was called a 302, not a BC-302. Given Deep Space Carrier, we could be left with DSC-302 and a hull number of DSC-02. Alyeska 04:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Bah, I had the numbers flubbed. And I don't actualy remember them saying BC-304. I just remember Landry saying "We gave them a 304" or something to that effect. The hull number 02 is clearly visible during the second battle against the Wraith when they bombed 2 Hiveships and then had to retreat. Alyeska 04:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
2 hanger bays. 8 F-302s confirmed in one hanger bay. Times 2, 16 F-302s. Alyeska 05:08, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Episode 202 from Atlantis. Sheppard and McKay are doing work in the hanger and we clearly see 4 F302s on either side of the bay. Thats 8 F302s in total. Alyeska 05:15, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
It's possible we'll never see other hull numbers for the Odessey etc as I doubt they use seperate computer models for each ship. It's perhaps why we haven't seen many close ups of Odessey yet. No Way Back 10:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I checked the battle sequence that Alyeska says he saw he hull number and I didn't find it (I trawled through the scene at half speed to make sure). Until a screen cap can be provided showing the hull number, it should not be put up here. No Way Back 09:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
You watched a terrible copy of the episode to miss something like that. The ship clearly has a hull number of 2. Alyeska 00:52, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, everyone, here is the proof of the 02 thing. It's actually DAEDALUS 02 not BC-02. http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/201/linz/html/stargate17617.html http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/201/linz/html/stargate17621.html
It's a little blurry but you can clearly make it out. Faris b 02:30, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
This is news how? I already stated it was just Daedalus-02 Alyeska 15:30, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, it's news because you never provided an image for proof, you kept directing people to watch the ep. You were right, but all I did was back up your claims with images. And, I checked ep 920 "Camelot", there are no closeups of either ship. You can see the lit up section on the fighter bays but no closeups. I'll bet we may never see it say ODDYSSEY O3 because the ship is a CG model and although it would be easy to change it to a different name, I doubt they will do it in order to save costs. Just like the Prometheus remained "X-303" long after it was designated BC-303.
-- Faris b 20:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
"The Prometheus general design is that of a battlecruiser, a defensive/offensive craft designed to provide fire support in a space combat situation, trading shots with Goa'uld spacecraft. The Daedelus, however, is designed more as a multi-role carrier/battlecruiser, carrying 16 F-302 space-fighters as well as the capability for over 400 soldiers. While it is a carrier structure it is capable of standing up to multiple Wraith Hive Ships or Goa'uld motherships." —Where, pray tell, did THIS come from? I've never heard it anywhere on the show. LD 02:24, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Not only is it considered logical just by watching the two vessels in action. But the producers of the show have said in blogs and in interviews why the Prometheus and the Daedelus are different (Ie: Prometheus carries 2 F-302s and the Daedalus carries 16). And dont forget that Canada has already season the rest of the second season of Atlantis. Daedalus is shipping troops to and from Atlantis in "Inferno" as well as delivering more F-302s. - 59.167.6.100 01:11, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
This is intresting: the length and width are the same (as those of Prometheus), and the Prometheus is relatively taller (just looking at pictures: its got a lot less width for its height). So if the stats are accurate, the Daedalus is a smaller ship with more armaments and more cargo capabilities. Just something to think about :) ----DUCK
Where did the statistics on this ship come from? Specifically the mass and the PSL speed. They have to be made up. It's never been stated how much the craft weighs, and you could never do a mass interpretation from the size given that you don't have accurate schematics nor know the density of the materials. As for the PSL, the only statistic i'm aware of in this range was that the Prometheus could go 110,000 miles per hour. Isn't that somewhere around 60% the speed of light? That's way off 95%. Just a thought, anyone concur? Jordan.Kreiger 04:48, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
The speed was derived from calculations Carter made on how long it would take the Prometheus to travel using sublight engines at a given and known distance. The speed required them to be going very nearly the speed of light. Alyeska 05:06, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
You don't remember that discussion as to travel time between Atlantis and Earth? Whether or not it was 18 days, 20 days, or 3 weeks? We used an example of the Prometheus being said to take 3 weeks to travel to Atlantis as support that the Daedalus could make the trip in aproximately 3 weeks rather then giving a solid figure. And while the hyperdrives and sublight opperate on different principles, a direct comparison between sublight should be near identical principles between both ships. There is no evidence that the Asgard were involved in this element of the ship and both would use the same human design concepts. They might have different acceleration rates (I expect they would), but any top speed one ship has would be the same top speed of the other ship. Alyeska 05:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Top speed in an ocean is far different from top speed in space. The incident with the Prometheus clarly wasn't light speed, but it was very close to it. I need to dig up the calculations on that. So for whatever reason they can't actualy make light speed. Probably the relativistic effects got to nasty. Either way, its a good starting point for the Daedalus which uses largely the same technology which should function under the same properties in the same scientific principles. Alyeska 05:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
The Oydssey is taking the place of Prometheus on SG-1, it's going to be appearing a lot more regularly in the SG-1 series during the 10th season, perhaps it should get it's own page? At the very least, it merits it's own section away from Korelev - Count23 12:19, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
And it has a powered captains chair. :P Shogun 12:32, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, I noticed on the ships seal it said the Odyssey was a space carrier not a battle cruiser.
24.198.200.173 17:52, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
I know how it's spelt, i was in a hurry last night and jumped some letters together. I also noticed the USS, but i was convinced that people would change it to "USAF" and make up some crap about it being a mislabeled prop or something. HOWEVER, you all have missed the point of this discussion section, RE-READ what i wrote, and then reply. - 59.167.43.113 03:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Added a Picture of Colonel Emmerson (his first name is Paul, picked that up on announcement to the Lucian Alliance ships). I'm not sure whether it's in a good position or not, you guys sort it out i guess. - Count23 09:12, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Should the Odyssey get its own page?
Alyeska 05:34, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
USS, as a prefix, is correct. It stands for United States Ship - which is, by presidential order, the standard prefix used for any vessel commissioned in the service United States.
From: [ [1]] "In 1907 President Theodore Roosevelt issued an Executive order that established the present usage:
'In order that there shall be uniformity in the matter of designating naval vessels, it is hereby directed that the official designation of vessels of war, and other vessels of the Navy of the United States, shall be the name of such vessel, preceded by the words, United States Ship, or the letters U.S.S., and by no other words or letters.' --Executive Order 549, 8 January 1907."
24.97.224.6 02:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC) Eliyahu
You moved the page without consultation. That was uncalled for. While the designation is true, we also know that the Daedalus has a hull number of BC-02. Take a wild guess what the BC stands for. Alyeska 05:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
If no one objects, I will move the page by this Friday, Feb. 17. Of course, anybody else is welcome to move the page before then. -- Will74205 22:14, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I object, it's been called a "Daedalus Class Battleship" in "The Ties that Bind" (Sg-1). It's also been called a Daedalus Class Battleship in "Avalon Part 1" and "Intruder". - 59.167.2.27 23:34, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Isn't the USAF the ones that are running the ships (except of course for foreign operated ones)? Would then BC stand not for battlecruiser but rather for bomber/transport via the current air force-navy-army designation? If anything, the class of ships fit a variety of roles, including carrier, transport, and combat oriented. I don't recall the class ever being called battlecruiser or, as the user above said, battleship, but this doesn't mean that either term hasn't been used. I think Wikipedia should default the term to either present military terminology (bomber/transport) or as the crew patches indicate, Deep Space Carrier, and not battlecruiser. - Rudykog 02:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
The term Battlecruiser was stated repeatedly in relation to the Prometheus, and the Daedalus was sufficently similar at a point that McKay thought it to be of the same class. Its possible for the 304 to change from Battlecruiser to Deep Space Carrier, but the BC would never stand for Bomber Transport. If you want to use USAF naming conventions, it should be named the BCS-304. Bomber Transport Spaceplane 304. Alyeska 00:58, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
For one thing, we can't use the actual military ship letter designations, because they are clearly not being used by the creators of Stargate as intended. They are largely going their own way, especially in regards to spaceships, vs. sea-going ships. We can only go with what we've been provided. As to the 'Deep Space Carrier' designation, I am in complete agreement with Rudykog. The designation has been seen on a large monitor in the conference room aboard the Odyssey (not unlike the screensaver for the SGC, only Odyssey-style). Alyeska suggested that it was a designation specific to Odyssey, but I don't believe that is the case. He mentioned its duties was probably why, but the fact is, both ships have been used extensively for deep space transport. I do not at all believe the designation of Battlecruiser applies any longer to either ship, but that rather 'Deep Space Carrier' is the preferred designation of the creators of Stargate. If it wasn't important to them, they would not have had it on the show specifically as such. Seastallion 02:46, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
You have it occuring on a single ship. Not seen on another ship. We have dialogue from someone who is knowledgable and this dialogue isn't contradicted by an asshole known to correct people who make mistakes who is also knowledgeable. Sorry, but it stays Battlecruiser. Alyeska 03:04, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Tonights SG1 episode called Daedalus ships 304s and specificaly said the Russian ship is a 304. So enough with the bullshit that the Daedalus isn't a 304. I stated it was going to be a 304 last year AND I WAS RIGHT. Alyeska 02:46, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
If I wasn't right, then it would not be the BC304. Alyeska 01:53, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Aren't you assuming the 304 is a BC? Landry simply stated '304', not 'BC-304', so you cannot assume that it is since it's a different ship from Prometheus. There might be some evidence from a shot or two of the Daedalus itself that I've missed, but you can't infer BC (I think this feeds into the Battle Criuser/Carrier debate - show me where it says BC on the Daedalus). No Way Back 07:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
"Daedalus Class Battelcruisers" - Cadwell
"304's" - Landry.
By following the simple logic of 1+1 = BC-304.
Reasoning:
BC stands for Battlecruiser (I dare anyone to find information out there that contradicts this fact).
The Prometheus was a Battlecruiser and it was a BC-303.
- 59.167.47.235 01:43, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Care to cite your Caldwell reference? It doesn't matter if you could since it's already pointed out here that 'Battlecruiser' is a generic term the writers like to throw around. How do you know BC stands for Battlecruiser? (I dare you to prove it - the burden of proof is yours to defend). I agree it's most likley the case that BC stands for battlecruiser, but it may well be something else and you cannot cite your own reasoning. Find me a canon source (be it from onscreen or reliable production notes) that says the Deadelus is BC-02.
It *is* Deadelus 02, I've already conceeded that much since it says this on the hull - it does not say BC-02.
And if you want to get picky about the Prometheus' combat role, it was described as a defensive weapons platform more often than a battlecruiser (Memento and Prometheus spring to mind, but there are probably other refs if I do some digging).
304 is a different ship from the 303 (otherwise, why chnage production numbers?) and so you cannot assign the values of one ship to the other. No Way Back 11:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, you're wrong there, the burdon of proof is yours, following the standard naming patterns and designations established already in the series as well as military designations, BC = Battlecruiser is logical, YOU are required to prove that it means otherwise, not the other way around.
Now, as for the reference, my apologies, it was at the beginning of season 9 of SG1 and was the balding accountant that General Landry had to convince to keep funding the SGC. - 59.167.1.77 13:57, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
(excerpt from SG-1 Solutions)
- 59.167.1.77 02:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
What it does rule out is calling it a "Deep Space Carrier" and makes it definently harder to dispute that two types of ships called "Battlecruisers" have BC in their register numbers, suggesting a correlation between teh registry and the vessel type. - 59.167.234.52 03:13, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
This needs to have a conclusion. You all are going around in circles, no offense. I say let's go with what's been proven. Sure, the Daedalus has been called a battlecruiser in a few eps, only "The Seige, pt II" comes to mind but that was back when no one in Atlantis had seen the Daedalus so they were assuming it was a second Prometheus class ship. The Daedalus has no indication at all, the patch only says DAEDALUS on it, the Odyssey, although and identical ship to the Daedalus clearly says "DEEP SPACE CARRIER". Why not just change the page title to Daedalus Class Carrier or something like that until something to the contrary is shown?
It can't be both. They are clearly designed to be carriers it seems. Daedalus carrys supplies and troops to and from Atlantis and the Odyssey does the same so why not stick with what was proven?
-- Faris b 06:11, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
They are clearly designed to be carriers but in every single reference to them verbally or on screen (the only instance of Deep Space Carrier was a mission patch), call them Battlecruisers, Attack ships or Battleships. Besides, Prometheus had fighter bays too, you could call it a carrier if you wanted to. Simple fact is, it's a Battlecruisers and the page wont change. - 59.167.234.52 08:27, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
What it does rule out is calling it a "Deep Space Carrier" and makes it definently harder to dispute that two types of ships called "Battlecruisers" have BC in their register numbers, suggesting a correlation between teh registry and the vessel type.
Once again, show me where it says Daedelus is BC anywhere on it's hull, bulkheads or mission patches and I'll happily concede this point. It does not rule out Deep Space Carriers, how can it? DSC has been seen on screen - not just mission patches but on monitors too, where's you're similar level of proof for BC? I'm not saying don't call it a battle cruiser, I'm not saying BC doesn't stand for Battle cruiser. What I am saying however is that to call it BC without any verifiable evidence except linking it with the 303 is wrong, as is making the connection between BC and battle criuser. I don't know how many different ways I can phrase that, but the simple fact is Daedelus as BC (or BC standing for battle criuser) is not verifiable and does not belong on wikipedia until it can be. No Way Back 17:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Exactly. What we have proven to us is that it's a Deep Space Carrier on the patch of the Odyssey. Maybe since the Daedalus was the prototype of the new class it wasn't assigned that name but since the Odyssey is the 2nd one, they went ahead and gave it the title. If we see a 4th ship that also says Deep Space Carrier, I guess we can assume that is the correct title. That's right, the Daedalus does NOT say BC-02 as so many believed for a while but in fact it says DAEDALUS-02 instead.
On the show, they call ships by many names. Take "The Pegasus Project" for example. Teal'c called the Ori ship an "Ori Vessel" and the Hive ship a "Wraith Vessel/Wraith Ship", Zelenka may have said the latter, though these being general terms for the ships this is my point. So what if they called the Daedalus/Odyssey a Battlecruiser from time to time? It could just be an extent to this whole naming generalization that seems to be going on.
Also, in "Allies", the Daedalus did rely on it's fighters to better fight the Hive ships that were going to Earth remember?
-- Faris b 18:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
You know what? Lets leave ALL spoilers out of the articles until they have actualy aired onscreen or been shown in an offical teaser/trailer by the franchise owners. For all we know, the information on the Oddessy and Korelev could change before the next season airs. Alyeska 02:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Kvasir is not the engeneer for the Odyssey. You can clearely see in Camelot that he has his own Jack O'Neill-class vessel. Further more, in Allies, the season finaley for Atlantis, McKay ironically states that Hermi is not that important on the Deadalus and was probably put there for the Humans to Get used to controlling the advanced Asgard Sensors. And another thing, not related, it seems farfetched that in one week, the russians were able to construct a Deadalus class ship. in that rate, Humans could have an armada in a couple of months. And another thing, in Camelot, on the main viewer, the vessel seems more like a BC-303 but when it exits hyperspace you can clearely see that it is a deadalus class. Oh and the prometheus could cary 8 F-302s
The russians didnt build their BC-304, the Americans gave them it. They said that the ship wasn't going to be finished for another 12 months in Crusade, when Daniel and Landry were discussing the deal, in Camelot, Colonel Emmerson explained that they rushed the ship into service. Korolev was an incomplete BC-304, under Russian control. - 59.167.11.69 09:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Kvasir not being an engineer on board the Odyssey. He was never referred to as such in the show and in Camelot he arrives in his own (maybe not his but an asgard) ship and beams onto the Odyssey. Feral Mutant 16:50, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Why have you modefied my correction of the table of the ship list. It was accurate according to Gateworld spoilers for the first episode of the tenth season of Stargate SG-1?
Why have you not read the discussion page and noted the little bit asking people to stop posting spoilers? Just because Gateworld reported it doesn't make it fact. It can change before aired, and there are people who avoid spoilers. Alyeska 00:33, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
(PLEASE DONT READ THIS IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE SPOILED)
Gateworld has already said for the spoilers for season 10 that the russian ship was destroyed because in the first episode if you go to gateworld and read "flesh and blood" it says the Oddy is looking for people who where still alive from the russian ship. The Oddy is also suppose to be in a fight with the lucian alliance in the first episode so I didnt want to change it untill some of you read this and saw for yourself and since im new to the Stargate Wiki community I figured it talk about it here first :)
Yes it does say that but it could wrong. At the end of season 9 the LA were fighting alongside us yet in the first episode of season 10 we are fighting them. So I would't take the spoliers for granted. MarineCorps 19:09, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
That the Korelov is destroyed according to Gateworld is entirely irrelevent. It is both spoiler material and comes from a non-canon source. We can keep information out of the article until we see it on the screen. Alyeska 19:11, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Any and all season 10 spoilers posted before we have information airing on TV will be deleted by myself on the main page. Until its shown onscreen, it is subject to change. It is also done to intentionaly avoid posting spoilers for people who don't want to read it. Alyeska 01:04, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
In the episode "Off the Grid" the plaque behind Col. Emerson said USS Odyssey Deep Space Carrier. So, would it be more fitting to call the Daedalus class line of ships Deep space carriers instead of battlecruisers? Tegalans 20:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
It can been seen when they are in the briefing room after SG-1 was saved. I believe it was on Col. Emerson's patch also, but I can't be sure. Tegalans 21:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
And the Daedalus was described as the Prometheus sister ship, and we know Prometheus was a Battle Cruiser. Outright designating the Daedalus class is wrong. A notation is sufficent for now. Alyeska 23:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
But you(Alyeska) are designating it as a Battlecruiser what makes you right and the show wrong. Tegalans 18:27, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
The episode "Off the Grid" desginated the Odyssey as a Deep space carrier. The term battlecruiser is a generic name which has little or no evidence,other than word of mouth, to back it up. Weither the Prometheus and Daedalus are sister ships or not isn't irrevelant. It has been stated on the show that the Korolev is a 304, and if the Korolev is a Daedalus class ship then the Odyssey and Daedalus are 304's. The Prometheus may have been called a battlecruiser but the Daedalus is a new class. Surely the 302 and 303 are different classes so the 303 and the 304 must be different and the desgination for the Odyssey is Deep Space Carrier not battlecruiser. Either the Odyssey is an new class of itself dirrerent than the Daedalus and should be moved to a new site stating it's difference. (Remember, Gen. Landry stated that they gave the Russians "a" 304. "A" indicting pural amounts of 304's exist.) In such case then the Daedalus is a 303 making her Prometheus's sistership as Carter said(which I do not believe to be the case)which makes the Odyssey the first of her class. I believe that this article should reflect the name given to the Odyssey and rename it's title Daedalus class Deep space carrier. Tegalans 17:52, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I believe Tegalans is right. There is undeniable proof that the Daedalus class series are Deep space carriers and not battlecruisers. 1st: the show designates the Odyssey as a Deep Spae Carrier. The show is right no matter what it has said in the past, for the present is what matters.Shows change and have plotholes. 2nd:Gateworld.net has an article stating that the three daedalus class ships are Deep space carriers. They get their information directly from the people who work on the show.
This relies on Wikipedia being capable of doing it and having a Wiki editor who knows how to do this. Is it possible to use a format where white text is presented on a white background and you highlight the section to read the spoiler material? Alyeska 03:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Sample text in white so it can't be seen without higlighting, though the hyperlinks still show |
I was trying to create a compromise on the issue rather then an outright yes or no. Alyeska 16:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Looks like we've got a multi-user edit war going on now with uninformative edit summaries. Would someone on the deletion side please explain here on talk: why it's so abhorrent to have this particular tidbit of information present in the article? Wikipedia contains spoilers, there are other spoilers present in many other Stargate articles that haven't sparked this sort of response. And Wikipedia contains non-"canon" information too, this information is cited and verifiable so I don't see a problem on that end either. What's going on? Bryan 16:49, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Darth Vader is really Like Skywalkers father! |
Bloody hell, I copied the damn example above me and it won't work. Alyeska 16:57, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Xornok, I agree with you on the use of spoilers and I couldn't find where it mentions, on gateworld, that kvasir is the ship's engineer. All I could find is that kvasir is helping to repair the systems, and if we infer that helping to repair the odyssey makes him the engineer then we must use the evidence that he did come into battle with his own ship to neget that possibality. If there is proof then it should be stated that kvasir is the odyssey's engineer for gateworld gets their information directly from the source. Tegalans 16:58, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Please, leave Kvasir out of this. He's not the problem here. About the spoilers. As I said before, it's NOT speculation, it's reporting information from a reliable source that a) is CLEARLY labeled as spoiler b) it's source is clearly stated and c) its status is also clearly stated which means 1) people who don't want to read spoilers can easily avoid them and 2) those who choose to read them, are perfectly informed of their nature. Spoilers have been used in lots of other articles, both Stargate and not like, for example, the lists of episodes and several character profiles, and it's the first time I see people having a problem with clearly labeled spoilers. The warnings are big enough to make avoiding them easy. I think the big warnings are the clearly stated status of the information is a good enough compromise between those spoiler-phobic and those who like to read spoilers. -- Andromeda 13:45, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
The problem is how the spoilers are shown in the thread. Indicating in the ship list which ship is destroyed and which isn't is a spoiler without warning. Alyeska 23:55, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Saw this on RfC: under no circumstances should we begin to fiddle around with white-on-white. Or rather, this should be a policy proposal and not done to a particular article for particular reasons. Is the material notable? If so, include it and let it be marked the usual way, if it is not vital to the article and a really huge spoiler which would just be too bad to let out (and it is already out there in the eather for those who want it), don't include it. Lundse 02:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Are you two done with the pissing contest? Your both acting rather childish. Alyeska 00:48, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
there, i think thats a fair compromise - Xornok 18:21, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Speaking as the person who initially crusaded against the changing of the Korolev's status to destroyed based one one spoiler, i think there is now sufficient information to say the Korolev was destroyed in action, both Major Marks and Colonel Emmerson appear to be in at least 4 episodes this season, not including the opening two parter. Perhaps it's time we remove update hte status to reflect this, or at least, remove the speculative comments from the spoilers and leave them as pure spoilers.
My initial comment about Season 10 was that it only had a 12 month old spoiler for the opening of season 10 with a throwaway line about the Odyssey facing down the Lucian Alliance. Now if you read recent reviews posted, after production has been finished, we see that Emmerson and the Odyssey take a much larger role in the episodes that follow. Obviously showing that Odyssey wasn't destroyed with sufficient evidence to prove it. - 59.167.33.205 03:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok. I couldn't find any reference to a second battle at P3Y-299 so why is it referred to as the first battle? I checked Gateworld and such and found nothing. Why not just call it "The battle of P3Y-229"?
Also, I am in favor of changing the page name from Daedalus class battlecruiser to Daedalus class Carrier as it is NOT a battlecruiser but a carrier, the USS Odyssey patch says "Deep Space Carrier" on it and since it's identical to the Daedalus, I'd say all of them a DSC's. What ever happend to this issue?
Faris,
Because, for all we know, there's going to be another battle at P3Y-229. It makes sense to leave the comment as specific as possible until we know for sure. Dont forget the Odyseey and Lucian Alliance ships survived the battle. AND the Orii Supergate isnt going anywhere... - 59.167.19.238 00:18, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
It's more of a continuation of the battle since the shown ended. The next season will pick up where Crusades left.
They had to retreat, teh gate is still intact, when they get around to it they're going to have to attack the gate again, hence there will likely be a "second" battle. - 59.167.47.235 01:39, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Thats unknown currently so it's just speculation MarineCorps 01:54, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Exactly, we dont know if that will be the only fight, so until we confirm that it was the only battle, the "First" qualifier remains. - 59.167.47.235 14:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Please see Template_talk:Spoiler#CSS_class_good_solution_to_complaints. Armedblowfish 21:00, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Policy is explicitly clear here. Please read the last paragraph of Wikipedia:Spoiler warning under the heading "Unacceptable alternatives". AlistairMcMillan 01:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Find an alternate means to hide the text from immediate view. For someone browsing the article, the spoilers are not located on the bottom of the article and in an attempt to get other information and avoid spoilers, they wouldn't. The current setup works well enough because it hides it from casual view but lets people still read it. As of yet I haven't heard of a SINGLE complaint about people not being able to read the material by highlighting. Alyeska 02:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Done. Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Media, art and literature AlistairMcMillan 02:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't get it, why hide it from immediate view? What possible point could hat serve except to irritate a reader trying to find info? And it doesn't matter if you haven't heard a complaint about it. If there's a vandal, and no one complains about him, does he still have the right to break policy and vandalize? No! The same applies here. American Patriot 1776 03:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
How do you even know that people are reading this content with a white background? AlistairMcMillan 03:11, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Can we all at least agree that removing the information entirely is unwarranted? The sources provided for it are reputable and the information is properly qualified as being based on casting information, and Wikipedia does contain spoilers. Bryan 18:23, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Has the dispute of white on white text been resolved? It's quite clearly not acceptable on WP:SPOILER. If so, please remove from RfC. Thanks. Tyrenius 16:52, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Daedalus-class vessels, at least the Daedalus, are armed with weapons that Caldwell has called 'Mark Eight Tacticals'. (Ref: SGA Siege Part III) Why is this marked as Mark VI here? Jordan.Kreiger 04:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps it would be best to remove that column from the ship chart, and thus stop the reverts that have been going on for some time now. Hermiod is the only Asgard known to be attached to a particular ship; has it been stated that each ship carries an Asgard engineer, or might the Daedalus be an isolated incident? If so, then this column is extraneous. ···Q Huntster (T) • @ • (C) 05:11, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, just remove the column because it was stated in I believe it was "The Intruder" that Dr. McKay explained to sheppard that they needed Hermoid because "Intergalactic hyperdrive is fairly new to us".
Faris b 06:47, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. But for the sake of accuracy, I've added a note on the Daedalus section of the article stating that it has an Asgard engineer onboard for the sole reason of operating the intergalactic hyperdrive. Is this addition ok? Feel free to rework it if need be.
One more thing. I think the reason that Kvasir keeps being added back is because about 90% of those edits were by unregistered users who probably don't check the edit history. I even sent one of them a personal message stating that Kvasir was not the engineer and they wrote back to me and said "Kvasir was not the engineer, Vasir was". Can you believe it? -- Faris b 02:11, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I'm sure we all remember how a lot of people were going on and on about how it was the Korolev that survived because key people were onboard and the Odyssey was destroyed because no one in a pivotal role was on it.
Ok, no offense to anyone but..
HOW COULD ANYONE THINK THAT? One look at the track record of the Russians and you'll see that their things are destroyed, their teams are all killed usually how could anyone think they'd get to keep a ship on this show? Obviously, their first (and most likely the only) ship will surely be destroyed. We all know how the SG-1 team has more lives than a cat and combined with the fact that the Russians always get screwed on the show, how could anyone think they'd get to keep the only ship in the Milky Way galaxy? Anyone have any thoughts on how people came to this conclusion? I knew immediately it was the Odyssey that survived (not because I read the spoilers) but because I knew what happens with the Russians on Stargate.
Faris b 07:50, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
That's what I mean. So how could so many people think that the Korolev suvived especially seeing how the SG-1 members have cheated death in the past, why should this time have been different in their opinions? I mean, I was surprised when everyone after Camelot aired were saying "Oh, the Korolev survived because Daniel and Mitchell were onboard".
Faris b 19:53, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
It stretched the realms of reason to assume both characters somehow managed a miricle and left the ship in time. It might have been interesting to have to only ship in the Milky Way under Russian control, but I imagine that's not a viewpoint that would be terribly popular. No Way Back 21:23, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Because, and mistakenly enough, some of us thought that when the writers said they would "shake things up" they may have changed the status quo when it comes to space-combat superiority between Earth nations, which would have made for interesting stories in the future. Also, teh simple fact was, we DIDNT know which ship was destroyed, simply put, and this is an encyclopedia of fact, not conjecture or anticipation. - 59.167.1.77 13:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I saw under the history section of the Daedalus, that with the ZPM, it's speed was 1215 LY per min. Where did this figure come from? That would mean that Pegasus is 7 million LY from the Milky Way. Has this been stated somewhere?
Faris b 04:12, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Pegasus is a real galaxy in this universe, only problem is there are two of them, so we can't say where the galaxy is for definite. Is there a cite for the 1215 lY/min? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else. No Way Back 13:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I already know, I did a search for it on here. But both Pegasus galaxies are not even close to 7 Mil LY. One of them is 2.5 Mil LY and the other is 3.5 Mil LY not even close.
Faris b 19:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok I think I found an accurate way to get the true size of the Daedalus. http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/zocalo/sga_2x06/sga-2x06-449.jpg That pic shows a few blue rectangles which appear to be windows at the bow (front) of the ship and there are people visible (average height is around 5'8" or so), so using this, I managed to get 118 ft or 35 m for the front of the Daedalus's height, the back end of the ship is bigger but I haven't worked on that yet. Can this be used as a serious way to measure the Daedalus's size? I can also work it to work for length as well? Because I don't want to do all this work and then have it be reverted. If anyone else wants to work on this as well, they may do so.
Faris b 21:08, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it's from an ep. It's from "Trinity" when the Daedalus was protecting the jumper to go through the orbital gate when the weapon was firing everywhere. I also believe there is another episode shot of this. In "Flesh and Blood", when the Odyssey came to scoop up Carter in the fighter bay, she seemed to be about the same size (compared to the USAF letters which I double checked the size of compared to people) as what I got in the "Trinity" pic.
-- Faris b 23:49, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
You have no way of knowing how far Carter was from the side of the ship, so an accurate comparison to the size of the decals is impossible. I've just checked my copy of Trinity and this pic appears very similar to the scene there, but I'm not convinced they are the same. In every frame in the episode that the picture could have come from, there appears to have been weapons fire visible from behind the ship. It also appears that the Sci-fi singage has eihter been removed or cropped out of the picture, so I don't think we could use it anyway. No Way Back 11:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I missed your message and didn't check until today.
Anyway, I'm not a new member who doesn't know anything, I wouldn't use fake images, that site, www.thescifiworld.net does have a lot of fan CG artwork and wallpapers but I'm sure this is from the screenshot section.
Here http://www.thescifiworld.net/zocalo_images_sga2x06_05.htm
I also compared it to a small scale pic from www.stargatecaps.com and it was pretty much a match when I shrank the image. Anyway, I never noticed that the scifi logo was missing but you're right but it's possible to remove those things nowadays.
Incase you all decide my work is acceptable for use here is what I came up with
Length 1416 ft = 431.60 meters
Width 615 ft = 187.45 meters
Height 210 ft = 64.01 meters
I used the Odyssey blueprints from the Stargate magazine for reference.
You may need to check my measurements in meters because I'm not good with the metric stuff but my stuff in Imperial units is correct based on what I came up with.
-- Faris b 23:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm all for accuracy, but since we have no actual proof of the specs, can I replace the current ones with the ones I came up with? I mean, if we have unproven data from an unknown source, wouldn't it be better to have data that is more likely to be correct?
-- Faris b 20:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Okay, someone please confirm whether or not a dash is permitted between Name and class, aka, is it Daedalus-class or Daedalus class? I'm seeing it both ways, and haven't noticed a concensus on this issue when there should be one. Based on the whole of the 'pedia, it looks like not is the verdict, but, thoughts? -- Huntster T • @ • C 04:01, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm guessing that without the dash would be better.
-- Faris b 04:15, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I heard that there will be more Deep space carriers in service later on in season 10, is that true?
Also, why aren't other countries building their own ships? They supposedly got the plans for at least something like the Prometheus as stated in season 6.
Faris b 03:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Russia has the plans for the 303, yes, but the 303 has already been discontinued in favor of the Daedalus, and Russia didn't possess the facilities to build their own Prometheus class vessels even when it was still not obsolete. JBK405 03:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah but then why did they want the plans if they couldn't even build them? Not to mention the fact that they never even made the seemingly mass-produced F-302.
I'm thinking if we see more ships they'll probably be other countries' ships because the Korolev was supposed to be the 3rd US Deep Space Carrier and it was still a year away from completion so they're starting on the 4th one from scratch no doubt so it'll be a while unless the show is introducing ships that belong to other nations.
Faris b 03:14, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
And just what is this Deep Space Carrier? Its been called a Battlecruiser in dialogue. End of story. Alyeska 03:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
I consider them Deep Space Carriers because that was written and clearly visible on the Odyssey patches and their insignia, although it wasn't written on the Daedalus anywhere, my explanation is that since it was the prototype for it's class it wasn't officially called a Deep space carrier, "battlecruiser" is pretty much an umbrella term on the show it seems, they call anything Earth-built a battlecruiser, until I see WRITTEN evidence to the contrary I will know them as Deep space carriers. We'll see in season 10 if they have anymore ships what they're called, I'm thinking it'll be Deep Space Carrier like the Odyssey if it's a US built ship.
Faris b 04:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
The ship is used for the exact same missions as the Prometheus. The Prometheus is a Battlecruiser. The Daedalus has been called a Battlecruiser and conducts the same missions. Deep Space Carrier is a worthless description and its not been actively used. Alyeska 04:17, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
It comes down to this: You can personally call it Deep Space Carrier (or whatever) if you want, but please don't use that term on Wikipedia. This issue has been well beaten into the ground. -- Huntster T • @ • C 04:54, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry but I'm not going to call it something I believe is a big mistake on here.
Here is how I see it, things that are shown on screen are usually taken as the truth, take the spelling of Naqahdah for example, for YEARS everyone said it was spelled "naqua" but eventually the true spelling that was shown on screen became known as the correct one, as far as I know, I was the only one to spell it correctly (No, I'm not trying to say I was the one who made that happen) before anyone else finally started to pick up the correct spelling when that screenshot started to be more widely known so why isn't it the same here? Why is something that is spoken being taken as the truth when we have written, factual evidence of the term Deep Space Carrier? Would it make a difference to you all if it had a simmilar thing on the Daedalus patches as well? What happens if there is a 4th ship and it also bears "Deep Space Carrier" in some way or another?
Also, the Ori ships were never called battlecruisers but that's what they're called on Wiki, they've used the term "Ori Vessel" and "Ori ship" but the only true name for them, at least from the peasants of the Ori galaxy is Starcraft yet we don't call them "Ori Starcraft" so this is why I am saying that the use of the term "Battlecruiser" is a little bit of an umbrella term.
Faris b 06:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, I took a look back at the discussions above and it was a majority vote that the page should be renamed Daedalus Class Deep space carrier so why is it that you are claiming that it was the other way around? Or is it that the people in charge just like the name "battlecruiser" better and are refusing to let anyone change it? Unless there is another discussion that I'm missing the majority vote is to change the name to Daedalus class deep space carrier.
Faris b 06:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Naqueda is a red herring. There was no dialogue to contradict the spelling in universe. The Daedalus class has been called a Battlecruiser by McKay, someone who knew a lot about its construction. It was considered the sister ship to the Prometheus at one point. It conducts the exact same missions as the Prometheus. You have but a single incident with the DSC while I have overwhelming weight of evidence as to the ship being a Battlecruiser. Alyeska 15:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
If by 'overwhelming' you mean one throw away line from Everret, I'd say you have a penchant for hyperbole :) Check every other episode, ever. I think you'll find that there isn't any other reference to Battlecruiser (nor were the 304's ever reffered to as 'BC'). I beleive the Prometheus was reffered to as a defensive weapons platform more often than Battlecriuser:
CARTER: Prometheus was designed primarily for defensive purposes. Memtento Transcript
Gateworld entry mentioning it's status as a defensive platorm for Earth
Niether of these are obviously roles of a Battlecriuser. Did you also notice that the Prometheus was only ever sent on one attack mission? For the majority of season eight, the ship was in fact in Earth orbit defending the planet, it was only ever sent out during the events of Ethon (and maybe, 'Unatural Selection' although this is mearly used as transport) on an attack mission.
So the Prometheus was never very Battlecriuser-esque to begin with. This is where your logic in connecting the 303 and the 304 gets a little fuzzy, since (in past arguments on this talk page)you link them via the 'BC' prefix on the registry. The 304 has never been linked with this term and the two series of ships must be fundamentally different both in design and purpose for a change of production number. The Odessey has only been sent out on missions so far because it is the only ship remaining for Earth to use, perhaps if the Prometheus was still around it would get used more often, but it's not.
DSC has two reference point on SG1. The first is obviously the mission patches worn by each Odessey mission patch and the second here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/the_timmsv2/sg1cap.gif
Two different departments using the same information? I could see you're point if it was just one or the other, but two implies that someone sat down and thought about this rather than an artist taking a little creative liscencing.
Back to the BC issue, it's never been canonically stated that BC even stands for Battlecriuser. You cannot assume it does because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and therefore needs reference. Everything I have said here, I have backed up, you cannot deny there is at the very least enough evidence to warrent more than a passing reference to this term. No Way Back 01:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Never canonicaly called a BC? When the BC303 first got mentioned it was called BC303, BC, and Battlecruiser multiple times by various people including a general in charge of the program. A colonel calling the Daedalus a BC and having McKay near by who is known to correct people for mistakes (McKay knew enough of the Daedalus to know how much the Asgard helped out and knew its systems pretty quick) didn't say a word. The patches ultimately don't mean a lot because it doesn't necessarily contradict Battlecruiser. It can easily have a different meaning. We know the ship is a Battlecruiser from dialogue and we have a nebulous designation with no real meaning behind it. Alyeska 01:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
The 303 was called BC, yes. But it's never been linked with the 304, nor has it ever been shown that BC stands for Battlecriser. McKay not correcting him is a fairly weak defence too, since there were numerous more important things happening (like the city on self-destruct) when the stakes are so high, McKay has demonstrated an ability to focus on a task before. No Way Back 15:21, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? When the BC303 designation was first given, we hear several people use the term BC303 and Battlecruiser interchangably, including the general in charge of the project. BC was directly tied to Battlecruiser canonicaly. Alyeska 00:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I know the Asgard have a policy of not putting any weapons on any Earth ships but why not retrofit something from an Al'kesh or Ha'tak, surely they could have gotten their hands on one of the Ha'taks after the battle with the replicators or at least have a team study their design or something like that, why not ask the Free Jaffa Nation to let a team study the weapons on a Ha'tak, it obviously woudln't risk their security because they have way more ships than Earth probably ever will and the fact that Earth wouldn't dream of attacking them like that, they have no problem letting SG personnel onboard them if need be so why not?
I'm tired of this, why are the writers are afraid to make Earth ships too powerful or at least more effective than targets with great shields? The missiles are limited and the railguns, while they do pass thru shields (this WAS stated because of the fact that they travel at Mach 5, the same reason that SG-1 could run thru shields in "Upgrades"), they aren't very effective unless you hit something like a fighter bay
Or is it a power thing? Like the reason that the Asgard hyperdrive and shields are only being powered at 25% of their max output? I got these figures from the Daedalus taking 4 days to get from Earth to Atlantis with the ZPM which can give full power and it taking 18 (YES, I am one of those who think it's 18 not 20 days) to travel from Earth to Atlantis which is just a little over 4x the amount of time it takes to go without the ZPM and the same reason the shields give out so easily under constant fire. So I guess weapons fire would do little good at 25% yield? But didn't they say in "There But For The Grace Of God" that the weapons of a Ha'tak are as powerful as 200 Megaton warheads? So at 25% that would be 50 Megatons so I don't see power being a problem especially because the Goa'uld systems use Naqahdah generators but Asgard systems use Neutrino Ion generators (Mentioned in "Nemesis").
Faris b 06:49, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was no move. -- tariqabjotu 00:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Daedalus class battlecruiser → Daedalus class (Stargate) – Hopefully this should settle the dispute over page name.
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
Add any additional comments
There is absolutely no reason to move this page. The ship has been called in Dialogue a Battlecruiser pure and simple. Alyeska 15:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
(1) Wait a second, how is "Daedalus class (Stargate)" in the least bit ambiguous? It is obviously a ship, and its obviously from Stargate, thus removing ambiguity (and if it is ambiguous, then Prometheus needs to be renamed to something else as well). I would *only* support a move to "Daedalus class (Stargate)", and only then because it fits better with Prometheus' entry, and because I believe all things Stargate related should be tagged with "Stargate" instead of just the name to avoid any confusion (as should any television, film, etc material). (2) Now, in terms of the battlecruiser debate, I believe spoken dialogue outweighs visuals, since we know that the special effects department does not always do a good job of keeping with continuity. Not to say that scriptwriters are perfect, but dialogue is typically taken, in my experience, as a matter of fact. This begs the question (as I don't remember it being mentioned), has it ever been verbally described as a Deep Space Carrier, and even then, how many times compared with it being called Battlecruiser? -- Huntster T • @ • C 19:20, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok, you're obviously not thinking in accordance with Wiki's NPOV rule. These articles are as much for people familiar with the show as they are for people learning about the show, to someone familiar with it, "Daedalus class" would signify the ship, but to someone unfamiliar with the show, it wouldn't make sense. That is how I see it. I mean, if I didn't know much about the show and I searched "Daedalus" and found "Daedalus class (Stargate)" it wouldn't seem like it's a ship to me, don't ask why, that's just how I think but if I saw "Daedalus class ship (Stargate)" it would make sense. Personally,
Also, Alyeska, what is your deal with insisting that it be kept as "battlecruiser"? Are you not reading what I'm saying about the show calling EVERY Earth-built ship a "battlecruiser"? Do you think every SG team is told the whole specs on the ships? To them, anything's a battlecruiser, just like most people see someone in the military and think of them as an "Army guy" when they know the Army isn't the only branch, I see it as the same way with the term "Battlecruiser", just because it's been stated on the show, doesn't mean it's correct. Do you have ANY other reason aside from the fact that it was spoken onscreen? If not, I think that you are just liking the name "battlecruiser" better and just don't want it to be changed for some reason I have no idea what it is. And why is that your sole argument? I can think of at least a couple of reasons why Deep Space Carrier is the correct name other than the fact that it was shown in the background.
Faris b 23:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Your mentioning NPOV is a red herring. It has absolutely nothing to do with the article. Why do I insist on it being called a Battlecruiser? Lets see. The Prometheus was called a Battlecruiser and was even designated as a BC. The Daedalus originaly started out as the Prometheus's sister ship and was going to be a BC. McKay was very knowledgeable in the construction of the Daedalus because he knew the Asgard were helping out alot. He called the Daedalus a Battlecruiser. This is a LOT of evidence in support of Battlecruiser. Your position relies on a SINGLE piece of information from a single episode. Weight of evidence supports Battlecruiser. I don't mind a comment being made in the article about DSC, but for the moment we don't have much information to indicate the classification has changed as of yet.
Alyeska 00:07, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
__
Everett is a military man and would not make the mistake of calling a Carrier a Battlecruiser because of ignorance over classification. He has been thoroughly briefed, and a thorough briefing would include something as basic as general information about the sole hope for saving Atlantis, so he wouldn't have simply assumed because he'd never been told the ships true title.
This particular quote has probably been hashed and rehashed, but I still think it speaks pretty plainly. The Daedalus has been identified as a Battlecruiser and, as such, it makes sense that the page be titled as such. JBK405 00:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Good point but I have a counter-point:
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sg1/s8/819/ninie/html/Moebius1x0001.html
Take a good look at that pic. Notice anything? It's a Prometheus class ship! Sure it was called "The Daedalus" but it seems originally the Daedalus was to be PROMETHEUS class then it was changed to an entirely new class probably just to be different as the creators so like to do between the shows.
Differences:
*1. It has that "ring" like thing on the aft tower like the Prometheus and the Daedalus clearly doesn't have it.
*2. It has a fatter front bit while the Daedalus is overall slimmer.
*3. It only has 2 rear engines like the Prometheus instead of about 8 on the Daedalus.
*4. It's fighter bays are slimmer like on the Prometheus and we all know the Daedalus has double the carrying capacity of the Prometheus because the bays are twice as large.
Thus, it's a writing mistake because the Daedalus was ORIGINALLY supposed to be a PROMETHEUS class ship but before they made the 3rd part for "The Seige" it was changed to a new class so SGA could have it's "own" ship in most ways.
So that was a mistake made before the Daedalus was actually shown, therefore, if between seasons, the ship class was completely changed, it's designation most likely changed as well but it was never commented on.
Also, isn't it possible the Daedalus wasn't assigned the title of DSC because it's the first of it's class, like a prototype ship of it's class so the next in line was named DSC, if the Korolev survived for more than 1 ep or was in the hands of the Americans, I believed it would have been a DSC.
And what does the Daedalus primarliy do?
Ferry supplies between Earth and Atlantis, sounds like a Deep Space Carrier to me. It doubles as a battlecruiser of sorts when it goes up against the Wraith but it doesn't do well, that was even stated by Caldwell just last week thus it's design was a carrier, not a battlecruiser. It seems the show always refer to them as 304's so unfortunately that doesn't help us with the battlecruiser vs. DSC argument.
Faris b 01:26, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Are you trying to talk people to death? The Daedalus got called a BC in dialogue by a military person who is briefed on the ship and someone knowledgable in its construction who is known to correct people did NOT correct him. You have a SINGLE piece of evidence that the Daedalus is a DSC. We have dialogue and past history. Alyeska 01:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
A well-written counter-point (Including visual aids, which people so often forget to show despite their claims of possession), and it certainly does look like that picture is of a Prometheus rather than Daedalus class, but we're still at a crossroads of implication and presentation. It certainly does appear that they originally intended the Daedalus to be a Prometheus class (Supported by McKay's statement that it was the P's sister ship), but regardless of their intentions, they changed it to a new class without any official in-show change. Sure, I'll bite that the writers changed their minds, but until it is commented upon within the show (Maybe something like "Ever since we changed over from the Battlecruiser to the Carrier design with the Daedalus, we've seen...") it hasn't happened within the shows universe, and the pre-change dialogue is still supposed to be dead on.
Also, why would its status as a prototype effect its title? I mean, I know how that would effect its title, but why would it effect its title like that? Why would it be called a Battlecruiser instead of a DSC just because it was the first? If it was a prototype name I would have thought that would be "Daedalus class Experimental Battlecruiser/DSC" (Or something along those lines), reflecting its status both as a prototype and its role. Besides, even if that's accurate and it's planned for future ships to be called DSC's, that hasn't happened yet and right now it's conjecture (Your own words: "if the Korolev survived for more than 1 ep or was in the hands of the Americans, I believed it would have been a DSC.")
In addition, I've actually taken issue with Caldwell's statement from Sateda. True, the Daedalus has suffered rather extreme damage at the hands of the Wraith, but the Wraith have taken quite a bit more. The Daedalus has taken down three hive ships singlehandedly, damaged others, and survived in combat against many more. I think its actions are actually quite suited to a BC, since it's done rather well considering it's almost always outnumbered and outgunned. However, even that's not very relevant to this discussion, it's performance is a moot point. Regardless of how well it does in battle, it was designed for battle, built for battle, and used for battle. Naval Battleships are still called as such, even in todays age when they are largely rendered ineffective due to aircraft, submarines, and long-range missiles. Perhaps the SGC will change their name to DSC because of its lack of success as a BC, but until they do that's still its title. JBK405 01:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
I find the notion that we should move it because Everett might be wrong to be absurd. It was stated on-screen, and until it is disproven on screen, it is a battlecruiser. I'm also quite certain that he would have been briefed on someting like that. That would be like saying, we can't say the Stargate is made of Naquahah because it might be wrong! We can only go on what is said, and until someone says that the Daedalus is not a battlecruiser and is indeed a Deep Space Carrier, then the article should remain here. American Patriot 1776 21:58, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm not saying Everett made a mistake, I'm saying the writers goofed up by originally having it be a battlecruiser but on a whim, they decided to change it to a DSC before season 2 started, so the information about the Daedalus being a battelcruiser WAS correct until they decided to make the ship look different, therefore, as of season 2+ of Atlantis and season 9+ of SG-1 the term DSC would be correct by this logic then.
Basically, they are both correct terms, but the BC term WAS correct and the term DSC is currently correct.
Faris b 00:07, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
But you've yet to give any support for that statement. An interview with a writer, commentary on an episode, etc. Until you get somebody actually saying that it is a DSC, it's still just conjecture. JBK405 00:46, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
No, Faris, what you are proposing is based upon "selective hearing"... In other words, as someone said above, you are ignoring the mound of evidence for Battlecruiser and latching on to the single bit that said Deep Space Cruiser. And as I mentioned above, I don't recall the term DSC actually being spoken in an episode (please correct me if I'm wrong). Spoken dialogue always takes precidence over visuals: again, scriptwriters and editors normally have a much higher degree of fact-checking than the folks in graphics do (in fact, graphics are usually outsourced to a separate company...one can simply look to Star Trek series to see the number of times their outsourced starship models and graphics got screwed up because of a lack of communication or misunderstanding between producer and design company).
Simply put, graphics are in every way secondary to script. -- Huntster T • @ • C 00:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
No, I never said I'm ignoring the evidence it being a battlecruiser but I'm talking about things proven on the show, the fact that the Daedalus ferries supplies, does not do that well against hives and yes, my favorite, the Odyssey insignia but you can't deny that the show generalizes the terms for ships, right?
Yes, you’re right, they never called it a DSC-304 but they never called it a BC-304 either, they always selectively call it a 304, nothing else. If they DO call it a BC-304, I will no longer pursue this but it hasn't happened.
So what happens if another Daedalus class ship appears and also says Deep Space Carrier somewhere on it as well? Will this page be renamed or will it be ignored again? I understand your viewpoint, it was only on 1 out of 3 ships, but that should be 1 out of 2 because the other one (Korolev) didn't exist long enough to have been given a title.
Faris b 02:13, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Once again, its performance is irrelevent. It is not our place to judge or make a decision based upon its performance, since that would be our opinion and thus not allowed on the main page. Also, it's performed very well (Taking down three Hive-Ships singlehandedly and damaging/surviving against others), so if it was our decision I'd still vote to keep it at BC and not DSC.
Anyway, none of the ships has once been referred to as a DSC except (apparently) by props, which are significantly less important than dialogue since, as has been said, props and script often contradict one another and the scripts are of higher authenticity. Your evidence has been its performance (Which is irrelevent), and props (Which take a back seat to dialogue). I understand where you're coming from and get what you're trying to say, but the facts simply weigh in favor of the official and In-Universe classification being Battlecruiser since it has been addressed as such in dialogue. It is not our position to change its official title because we feel that it doesn't apply, since Wikipedia is meant to give the facts, not what we think the facts should be (Sorry for sounding harsh, but we've been saying the same things back and forth for a while now). JBK405 05:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I havend had the patience to read all that is written in this Discusion, I only have one Argument, a rather large one, ok maybe 2. 1: The Daedalus was given this name from the greek engeneer that constructed wings for him and his son. It is also stated that the daedalus is the first ship to be designed to bridge the gap between the two galaxies where humans have settlements. Now the odyssey was called the sistership of Daedalus or a Daedalus class Ship and we could see the designation on Odyssey's emblem or whaterver that was. Combine this (Deep Space Carrier) with the name of the Class (Daedalus) and you have Daedalus class Deep Space Carrier (it carries people into deep space for the help of Atlantis). The term battlecruiser is so generic it scares me. The Daedalus class was created not to defeat the goa'uld or any other race because it was over with them so all they had to concentrate upon was going to pegasus and I think that is why Daedalus class has no energy weapons, it had no reason to, there was no rush, goa'ulds were down replicators down end of story. and another thing, A shield or anything including an energy weapon and hyperdrive is only as strong as it's energy source so that is why the daedalus was so much powerfull with the ZPM. IT all depends on how much energy you can sqeeze out of the naquadah. One last thing The battlecruiser obsesion is the same as it is with spaceship on star trek. It does not designate a class, it's just something general, Althought I have to admit it does give you a head aiche.
jameshowlett 22:41, 31 August 2006
So which is it in the image for the Battle of P3Y-229? The Korolev or the Odyssey? I always thought it was the Odyssey. Can anyone comfirm the ship positions?
Faris b 06:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
The Daedalus will have a bigger role on Stargate Atlantis than the Prometheus on Stargate SG-1, so I think this separate Daedalus page should be kept and not merged. WayneC
there are three ships, not two. we only saw one get hit and the front blow up.... there is still a possiblity that some of it survived. we dont know for sure... so i say we keep it as 3 current active ships... 206.113.23.187 14:48, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
one was destroyed. theres no doubt about that. MarineCorps 13:24, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
really? cause if one was destoyed then either mitchell and daniel die or teal'c dies... i say it got damaged, but i need to re watch the episode to make sure, i dont think the entire ship blows up. Xornok 19:16, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Daniel and Mitchell were on the Korolev, Teal'c was on a Jaffa Ship. -
59.167.32.221 12:53, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
RJ: The oddyssy is still ok. The russian vessel got destroyed throu the first ori attack. This info is based on the facts which stands on gateworld.net about the 10th season.. but i would prefer to wait until its clear which one was destroyed.
I believe that the Odyssey was destroyed. Destroying the Korelov means risking the loss of up to three main(ish) characters: Colonel Mitchell, Daniel Jackson and Colonel Chekov. There weren't any main characters on the Odyssey. RG
Far as I'm aware nothing is known of the Korelev other then it exists. Has it said that it is a Daedalus class? MarineCorps 19:48, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Gateworld spoilers say it's Daedalus class 59.167.6.100 10:54, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
The only thing gateworld says on the Korelev is this"Carter radios the Ori ships in the hopes of contacting any survivors of the Korelev, an Earth ship apparently destroyed by the Ori (probably how Daniel wound up on board). Daniel finds his radio and responds, assuring Sam that he made it okay. He and Vala hope to zat Adria and capture her." MarineCorps 23:17, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
You have to visit the blogs of the executive producers, not just read the simple spoilers the site admins left in the episode guide. 59.167.6.100 01:16, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I have. Even googled the word korelev for gateworld and the only thing it turned up was the spoilers in the episode guide. So unless you can provide a link I can only assume this is speculation at this point. MarineCorps 03:34, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
I also saw that. However that might have been a flash back. Wait till next friday before taking any action. MarineCorps 18:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't be surprised if the Korelev is somewhat between a Prometheus and Daedalus. Its Russian and doesn't have to be an identical design to USAF ships. Alyeska 18:37, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Gen. Landry specifically refers to the ship they had to give to the russians as a "304", unless they created a new prefix, an F-304 refers to Daedalus class vessels, while the Prometheus is an F-303. Cheezykins 10:15, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
F means fighter. The 304 and 303 are Battlecruisers therefore BC MarineCorps 02:30, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Prometheus has "BC-303" written on the side of it's hull, or at lesat it did until it's hull started orbiting Tegalus in a debris field. the letter suffix infront of a ship's numerical classification represents the role the craft plays. X = eXperimental, F = Fighter, A = Assault, B = Bomber, etc... Since this is an airforce show, and it's already been shown with Prometheus as a BC 303, that the Daedalus would be BC. Additionally, the simple fact that it's too large to be a fighter, prompts it to be called BC-304. - 59.167.11.69 09:11, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
If the Korolev was destroyed and the Odyssey wasn't, remember, both ships have Asgard beaming capability, so they can beam all the crew of one ship to another, in which case Daniel and Cameron won't die. Sorani172 01:27, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
The article says 20 days, however in Season 2 Episode 2 of Atlantis (The Intruder), one of the opening comments is that it takes 18 days to travel from Earth to Atlantis. Does anyone wish to verify? Steven 03:32, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
In the second episode of the 2nd season of Atlantis it was stated they were 18 days into their trip and that they had an additional 2 days before they reached Atlantis. This is a twenty day trip. Alyeska 05:31, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Apparently people are still a little confused on the subject of travel time. The Daedalus was stated to be 18 days into the trip with an additional 2 days to Atlantis. This is a travel time of 20 days, not 18. Stop editing 20 back to 18, its a wrong number. Alyeska 03:21, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
It seems that people are still having a hard time figuring out the travel times. I've had to correct it once again. The travel time between Atlantis and Earth is 20 days, not 18. The episode in question had Daedalus 18 days from Earth, but still another 2 to get to Atlantis. Alyeska 21:21, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
It's amazing that the number of times they say, both on Earth and Atlantis that the travel time is 18 days. The number in "Intruder" may have been a mistake in the script. in "Ripple Effect", "Prometheus Unbound" and "Critical Mass" the trip takes 18 days, or is the older BC-303 faster then it's sucessor? 59.167.6.100 01:10, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Prometheus Unbound said it would take about a month. In in the SG1 episode with the multiple SG1 teams, Prometheus was said to take 3 weeks to reach Atlantis. The 18 day figure comes purely from Intruder. The actual time length is 20 days, and comments of three weeks travel time fits 20 days. 18 days would be only two and a half weeks. Alyeska 05:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
Other then that single statement of travel time in Intruder which states 18 days, can someone find me any other example of the stated travel time for the Daedalus? I've looked for the trascript of Intruder and found that the wording of 18 days could be interpreted as 18 days total, or only 18 days with 2 to go. I know Prometheus was said to be 3 to get to Atlantis, and in theory it should be just as fast as the Daedalus. Any other stated travel times of 18 days and I will concede the issue and accept it. But if this single statement from Intruder is all we have, and with a longer travel time for Prometheus (3 weeks is awfuly close to 20 days) I'm inclined to read the 18 days as 18 days traveled and then take the statement later in the episode which says 2 days to Atlantis left. Alyeska 05:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Here's a transcript, perhaps the one you mention: http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/transcripts/202.shtml
From right near the beginning:
and only a little later on:
I can see how this is ambiguous, Weir could mean either that they've been in the ship for eighteen days or that the trip takes eighteen days in total.
Here's a transcript for Critical Mass: http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/transcripts/213.shtml Prometheus Unbound: http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s8/transcripts/812.shtml and Ripple Effect: http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/transcripts/913.shtml - I did a search for the words "eighteen" or "twenty" and didn't find anything relevant to travel time, but didn't do an exhaustive search. Have I missed anything? Bryan 07:46, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Well Ripple Effect had the statement "about three weeks" and "next three weeks" stated. I hesitate to say that 18 days is 3 weeks. Thats 2 and a half weeks. 20 days is close enough to call it 3 weeks. Anyway, thats my gut call on the issue. From the evidence available, it appears that 20 days is an accurate assesment of the travel time. This does make the assumption that Daedalus and Prometheus move at the same speed. So if someone else wants to contest this, I can't really argue either. Alyeska 02:11, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
This article needs to be renamed either Daedalus class battle cruiser or Daedalus (Stargate).
—wwoods 18:05, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
I know it's picky, but the article talks about /plural/ battlecruisers, doesn't it? - Cws125 09:31, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
In the interests of verifiability would someone mind pointing to the screenshot that shows the BC-02 hull number? AlistairMcMillan 20:05, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
BC-02 is a combination of things. The Daedalus has a hull number of 02. The BC was added in the front using traditional naval naming. Such as CVN-65. Ship number 65, CVN type. The BC part was inferred from the use of established military conventions without being directly seen. The same as BC-302 was inferred (and just so happened to be correct) before it was confirmed. Feel free to remove it if you want. I am starting to think the Deep Space Carrier might be the only real designation we can use. Technicaly, the ship was called a 302, not a BC-302. Given Deep Space Carrier, we could be left with DSC-302 and a hull number of DSC-02. Alyeska 04:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Bah, I had the numbers flubbed. And I don't actualy remember them saying BC-304. I just remember Landry saying "We gave them a 304" or something to that effect. The hull number 02 is clearly visible during the second battle against the Wraith when they bombed 2 Hiveships and then had to retreat. Alyeska 04:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
2 hanger bays. 8 F-302s confirmed in one hanger bay. Times 2, 16 F-302s. Alyeska 05:08, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Episode 202 from Atlantis. Sheppard and McKay are doing work in the hanger and we clearly see 4 F302s on either side of the bay. Thats 8 F302s in total. Alyeska 05:15, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
It's possible we'll never see other hull numbers for the Odessey etc as I doubt they use seperate computer models for each ship. It's perhaps why we haven't seen many close ups of Odessey yet. No Way Back 10:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I checked the battle sequence that Alyeska says he saw he hull number and I didn't find it (I trawled through the scene at half speed to make sure). Until a screen cap can be provided showing the hull number, it should not be put up here. No Way Back 09:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
You watched a terrible copy of the episode to miss something like that. The ship clearly has a hull number of 2. Alyeska 00:52, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, everyone, here is the proof of the 02 thing. It's actually DAEDALUS 02 not BC-02. http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/201/linz/html/stargate17617.html http://www.stargatecaps.com/sga/s2/201/linz/html/stargate17621.html
It's a little blurry but you can clearly make it out. Faris b 02:30, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
This is news how? I already stated it was just Daedalus-02 Alyeska 15:30, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, it's news because you never provided an image for proof, you kept directing people to watch the ep. You were right, but all I did was back up your claims with images. And, I checked ep 920 "Camelot", there are no closeups of either ship. You can see the lit up section on the fighter bays but no closeups. I'll bet we may never see it say ODDYSSEY O3 because the ship is a CG model and although it would be easy to change it to a different name, I doubt they will do it in order to save costs. Just like the Prometheus remained "X-303" long after it was designated BC-303.
-- Faris b 20:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
"The Prometheus general design is that of a battlecruiser, a defensive/offensive craft designed to provide fire support in a space combat situation, trading shots with Goa'uld spacecraft. The Daedelus, however, is designed more as a multi-role carrier/battlecruiser, carrying 16 F-302 space-fighters as well as the capability for over 400 soldiers. While it is a carrier structure it is capable of standing up to multiple Wraith Hive Ships or Goa'uld motherships." —Where, pray tell, did THIS come from? I've never heard it anywhere on the show. LD 02:24, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Not only is it considered logical just by watching the two vessels in action. But the producers of the show have said in blogs and in interviews why the Prometheus and the Daedelus are different (Ie: Prometheus carries 2 F-302s and the Daedalus carries 16). And dont forget that Canada has already season the rest of the second season of Atlantis. Daedalus is shipping troops to and from Atlantis in "Inferno" as well as delivering more F-302s. - 59.167.6.100 01:11, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
This is intresting: the length and width are the same (as those of Prometheus), and the Prometheus is relatively taller (just looking at pictures: its got a lot less width for its height). So if the stats are accurate, the Daedalus is a smaller ship with more armaments and more cargo capabilities. Just something to think about :) ----DUCK
Where did the statistics on this ship come from? Specifically the mass and the PSL speed. They have to be made up. It's never been stated how much the craft weighs, and you could never do a mass interpretation from the size given that you don't have accurate schematics nor know the density of the materials. As for the PSL, the only statistic i'm aware of in this range was that the Prometheus could go 110,000 miles per hour. Isn't that somewhere around 60% the speed of light? That's way off 95%. Just a thought, anyone concur? Jordan.Kreiger 04:48, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
The speed was derived from calculations Carter made on how long it would take the Prometheus to travel using sublight engines at a given and known distance. The speed required them to be going very nearly the speed of light. Alyeska 05:06, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
You don't remember that discussion as to travel time between Atlantis and Earth? Whether or not it was 18 days, 20 days, or 3 weeks? We used an example of the Prometheus being said to take 3 weeks to travel to Atlantis as support that the Daedalus could make the trip in aproximately 3 weeks rather then giving a solid figure. And while the hyperdrives and sublight opperate on different principles, a direct comparison between sublight should be near identical principles between both ships. There is no evidence that the Asgard were involved in this element of the ship and both would use the same human design concepts. They might have different acceleration rates (I expect they would), but any top speed one ship has would be the same top speed of the other ship. Alyeska 05:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Top speed in an ocean is far different from top speed in space. The incident with the Prometheus clarly wasn't light speed, but it was very close to it. I need to dig up the calculations on that. So for whatever reason they can't actualy make light speed. Probably the relativistic effects got to nasty. Either way, its a good starting point for the Daedalus which uses largely the same technology which should function under the same properties in the same scientific principles. Alyeska 05:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
The Oydssey is taking the place of Prometheus on SG-1, it's going to be appearing a lot more regularly in the SG-1 series during the 10th season, perhaps it should get it's own page? At the very least, it merits it's own section away from Korelev - Count23 12:19, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
And it has a powered captains chair. :P Shogun 12:32, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, I noticed on the ships seal it said the Odyssey was a space carrier not a battle cruiser.
24.198.200.173 17:52, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
I know how it's spelt, i was in a hurry last night and jumped some letters together. I also noticed the USS, but i was convinced that people would change it to "USAF" and make up some crap about it being a mislabeled prop or something. HOWEVER, you all have missed the point of this discussion section, RE-READ what i wrote, and then reply. - 59.167.43.113 03:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Added a Picture of Colonel Emmerson (his first name is Paul, picked that up on announcement to the Lucian Alliance ships). I'm not sure whether it's in a good position or not, you guys sort it out i guess. - Count23 09:12, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Should the Odyssey get its own page?
Alyeska 05:34, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
USS, as a prefix, is correct. It stands for United States Ship - which is, by presidential order, the standard prefix used for any vessel commissioned in the service United States.
From: [ [1]] "In 1907 President Theodore Roosevelt issued an Executive order that established the present usage:
'In order that there shall be uniformity in the matter of designating naval vessels, it is hereby directed that the official designation of vessels of war, and other vessels of the Navy of the United States, shall be the name of such vessel, preceded by the words, United States Ship, or the letters U.S.S., and by no other words or letters.' --Executive Order 549, 8 January 1907."
24.97.224.6 02:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC) Eliyahu
You moved the page without consultation. That was uncalled for. While the designation is true, we also know that the Daedalus has a hull number of BC-02. Take a wild guess what the BC stands for. Alyeska 05:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
If no one objects, I will move the page by this Friday, Feb. 17. Of course, anybody else is welcome to move the page before then. -- Will74205 22:14, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I object, it's been called a "Daedalus Class Battleship" in "The Ties that Bind" (Sg-1). It's also been called a Daedalus Class Battleship in "Avalon Part 1" and "Intruder". - 59.167.2.27 23:34, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Isn't the USAF the ones that are running the ships (except of course for foreign operated ones)? Would then BC stand not for battlecruiser but rather for bomber/transport via the current air force-navy-army designation? If anything, the class of ships fit a variety of roles, including carrier, transport, and combat oriented. I don't recall the class ever being called battlecruiser or, as the user above said, battleship, but this doesn't mean that either term hasn't been used. I think Wikipedia should default the term to either present military terminology (bomber/transport) or as the crew patches indicate, Deep Space Carrier, and not battlecruiser. - Rudykog 02:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
The term Battlecruiser was stated repeatedly in relation to the Prometheus, and the Daedalus was sufficently similar at a point that McKay thought it to be of the same class. Its possible for the 304 to change from Battlecruiser to Deep Space Carrier, but the BC would never stand for Bomber Transport. If you want to use USAF naming conventions, it should be named the BCS-304. Bomber Transport Spaceplane 304. Alyeska 00:58, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
For one thing, we can't use the actual military ship letter designations, because they are clearly not being used by the creators of Stargate as intended. They are largely going their own way, especially in regards to spaceships, vs. sea-going ships. We can only go with what we've been provided. As to the 'Deep Space Carrier' designation, I am in complete agreement with Rudykog. The designation has been seen on a large monitor in the conference room aboard the Odyssey (not unlike the screensaver for the SGC, only Odyssey-style). Alyeska suggested that it was a designation specific to Odyssey, but I don't believe that is the case. He mentioned its duties was probably why, but the fact is, both ships have been used extensively for deep space transport. I do not at all believe the designation of Battlecruiser applies any longer to either ship, but that rather 'Deep Space Carrier' is the preferred designation of the creators of Stargate. If it wasn't important to them, they would not have had it on the show specifically as such. Seastallion 02:46, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
You have it occuring on a single ship. Not seen on another ship. We have dialogue from someone who is knowledgable and this dialogue isn't contradicted by an asshole known to correct people who make mistakes who is also knowledgeable. Sorry, but it stays Battlecruiser. Alyeska 03:04, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Tonights SG1 episode called Daedalus ships 304s and specificaly said the Russian ship is a 304. So enough with the bullshit that the Daedalus isn't a 304. I stated it was going to be a 304 last year AND I WAS RIGHT. Alyeska 02:46, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
If I wasn't right, then it would not be the BC304. Alyeska 01:53, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Aren't you assuming the 304 is a BC? Landry simply stated '304', not 'BC-304', so you cannot assume that it is since it's a different ship from Prometheus. There might be some evidence from a shot or two of the Daedalus itself that I've missed, but you can't infer BC (I think this feeds into the Battle Criuser/Carrier debate - show me where it says BC on the Daedalus). No Way Back 07:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
"Daedalus Class Battelcruisers" - Cadwell
"304's" - Landry.
By following the simple logic of 1+1 = BC-304.
Reasoning:
BC stands for Battlecruiser (I dare anyone to find information out there that contradicts this fact).
The Prometheus was a Battlecruiser and it was a BC-303.
- 59.167.47.235 01:43, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Care to cite your Caldwell reference? It doesn't matter if you could since it's already pointed out here that 'Battlecruiser' is a generic term the writers like to throw around. How do you know BC stands for Battlecruiser? (I dare you to prove it - the burden of proof is yours to defend). I agree it's most likley the case that BC stands for battlecruiser, but it may well be something else and you cannot cite your own reasoning. Find me a canon source (be it from onscreen or reliable production notes) that says the Deadelus is BC-02.
It *is* Deadelus 02, I've already conceeded that much since it says this on the hull - it does not say BC-02.
And if you want to get picky about the Prometheus' combat role, it was described as a defensive weapons platform more often than a battlecruiser (Memento and Prometheus spring to mind, but there are probably other refs if I do some digging).
304 is a different ship from the 303 (otherwise, why chnage production numbers?) and so you cannot assign the values of one ship to the other. No Way Back 11:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, you're wrong there, the burdon of proof is yours, following the standard naming patterns and designations established already in the series as well as military designations, BC = Battlecruiser is logical, YOU are required to prove that it means otherwise, not the other way around.
Now, as for the reference, my apologies, it was at the beginning of season 9 of SG1 and was the balding accountant that General Landry had to convince to keep funding the SGC. - 59.167.1.77 13:57, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
(excerpt from SG-1 Solutions)
- 59.167.1.77 02:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
What it does rule out is calling it a "Deep Space Carrier" and makes it definently harder to dispute that two types of ships called "Battlecruisers" have BC in their register numbers, suggesting a correlation between teh registry and the vessel type. - 59.167.234.52 03:13, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
This needs to have a conclusion. You all are going around in circles, no offense. I say let's go with what's been proven. Sure, the Daedalus has been called a battlecruiser in a few eps, only "The Seige, pt II" comes to mind but that was back when no one in Atlantis had seen the Daedalus so they were assuming it was a second Prometheus class ship. The Daedalus has no indication at all, the patch only says DAEDALUS on it, the Odyssey, although and identical ship to the Daedalus clearly says "DEEP SPACE CARRIER". Why not just change the page title to Daedalus Class Carrier or something like that until something to the contrary is shown?
It can't be both. They are clearly designed to be carriers it seems. Daedalus carrys supplies and troops to and from Atlantis and the Odyssey does the same so why not stick with what was proven?
-- Faris b 06:11, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
They are clearly designed to be carriers but in every single reference to them verbally or on screen (the only instance of Deep Space Carrier was a mission patch), call them Battlecruisers, Attack ships or Battleships. Besides, Prometheus had fighter bays too, you could call it a carrier if you wanted to. Simple fact is, it's a Battlecruisers and the page wont change. - 59.167.234.52 08:27, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
What it does rule out is calling it a "Deep Space Carrier" and makes it definently harder to dispute that two types of ships called "Battlecruisers" have BC in their register numbers, suggesting a correlation between teh registry and the vessel type.
Once again, show me where it says Daedelus is BC anywhere on it's hull, bulkheads or mission patches and I'll happily concede this point. It does not rule out Deep Space Carriers, how can it? DSC has been seen on screen - not just mission patches but on monitors too, where's you're similar level of proof for BC? I'm not saying don't call it a battle cruiser, I'm not saying BC doesn't stand for Battle cruiser. What I am saying however is that to call it BC without any verifiable evidence except linking it with the 303 is wrong, as is making the connection between BC and battle criuser. I don't know how many different ways I can phrase that, but the simple fact is Daedelus as BC (or BC standing for battle criuser) is not verifiable and does not belong on wikipedia until it can be. No Way Back 17:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Exactly. What we have proven to us is that it's a Deep Space Carrier on the patch of the Odyssey. Maybe since the Daedalus was the prototype of the new class it wasn't assigned that name but since the Odyssey is the 2nd one, they went ahead and gave it the title. If we see a 4th ship that also says Deep Space Carrier, I guess we can assume that is the correct title. That's right, the Daedalus does NOT say BC-02 as so many believed for a while but in fact it says DAEDALUS-02 instead.
On the show, they call ships by many names. Take "The Pegasus Project" for example. Teal'c called the Ori ship an "Ori Vessel" and the Hive ship a "Wraith Vessel/Wraith Ship", Zelenka may have said the latter, though these being general terms for the ships this is my point. So what if they called the Daedalus/Odyssey a Battlecruiser from time to time? It could just be an extent to this whole naming generalization that seems to be going on.
Also, in "Allies", the Daedalus did rely on it's fighters to better fight the Hive ships that were going to Earth remember?
-- Faris b 18:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
You know what? Lets leave ALL spoilers out of the articles until they have actualy aired onscreen or been shown in an offical teaser/trailer by the franchise owners. For all we know, the information on the Oddessy and Korelev could change before the next season airs. Alyeska 02:21, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Kvasir is not the engeneer for the Odyssey. You can clearely see in Camelot that he has his own Jack O'Neill-class vessel. Further more, in Allies, the season finaley for Atlantis, McKay ironically states that Hermi is not that important on the Deadalus and was probably put there for the Humans to Get used to controlling the advanced Asgard Sensors. And another thing, not related, it seems farfetched that in one week, the russians were able to construct a Deadalus class ship. in that rate, Humans could have an armada in a couple of months. And another thing, in Camelot, on the main viewer, the vessel seems more like a BC-303 but when it exits hyperspace you can clearely see that it is a deadalus class. Oh and the prometheus could cary 8 F-302s
The russians didnt build their BC-304, the Americans gave them it. They said that the ship wasn't going to be finished for another 12 months in Crusade, when Daniel and Landry were discussing the deal, in Camelot, Colonel Emmerson explained that they rushed the ship into service. Korolev was an incomplete BC-304, under Russian control. - 59.167.11.69 09:08, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Kvasir not being an engineer on board the Odyssey. He was never referred to as such in the show and in Camelot he arrives in his own (maybe not his but an asgard) ship and beams onto the Odyssey. Feral Mutant 16:50, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Why have you modefied my correction of the table of the ship list. It was accurate according to Gateworld spoilers for the first episode of the tenth season of Stargate SG-1?
Why have you not read the discussion page and noted the little bit asking people to stop posting spoilers? Just because Gateworld reported it doesn't make it fact. It can change before aired, and there are people who avoid spoilers. Alyeska 00:33, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
(PLEASE DONT READ THIS IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE SPOILED)
Gateworld has already said for the spoilers for season 10 that the russian ship was destroyed because in the first episode if you go to gateworld and read "flesh and blood" it says the Oddy is looking for people who where still alive from the russian ship. The Oddy is also suppose to be in a fight with the lucian alliance in the first episode so I didnt want to change it untill some of you read this and saw for yourself and since im new to the Stargate Wiki community I figured it talk about it here first :)
Yes it does say that but it could wrong. At the end of season 9 the LA were fighting alongside us yet in the first episode of season 10 we are fighting them. So I would't take the spoliers for granted. MarineCorps 19:09, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
That the Korelov is destroyed according to Gateworld is entirely irrelevent. It is both spoiler material and comes from a non-canon source. We can keep information out of the article until we see it on the screen. Alyeska 19:11, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Any and all season 10 spoilers posted before we have information airing on TV will be deleted by myself on the main page. Until its shown onscreen, it is subject to change. It is also done to intentionaly avoid posting spoilers for people who don't want to read it. Alyeska 01:04, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
In the episode "Off the Grid" the plaque behind Col. Emerson said USS Odyssey Deep Space Carrier. So, would it be more fitting to call the Daedalus class line of ships Deep space carriers instead of battlecruisers? Tegalans 20:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
It can been seen when they are in the briefing room after SG-1 was saved. I believe it was on Col. Emerson's patch also, but I can't be sure. Tegalans 21:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
And the Daedalus was described as the Prometheus sister ship, and we know Prometheus was a Battle Cruiser. Outright designating the Daedalus class is wrong. A notation is sufficent for now. Alyeska 23:50, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
But you(Alyeska) are designating it as a Battlecruiser what makes you right and the show wrong. Tegalans 18:27, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
The episode "Off the Grid" desginated the Odyssey as a Deep space carrier. The term battlecruiser is a generic name which has little or no evidence,other than word of mouth, to back it up. Weither the Prometheus and Daedalus are sister ships or not isn't irrevelant. It has been stated on the show that the Korolev is a 304, and if the Korolev is a Daedalus class ship then the Odyssey and Daedalus are 304's. The Prometheus may have been called a battlecruiser but the Daedalus is a new class. Surely the 302 and 303 are different classes so the 303 and the 304 must be different and the desgination for the Odyssey is Deep Space Carrier not battlecruiser. Either the Odyssey is an new class of itself dirrerent than the Daedalus and should be moved to a new site stating it's difference. (Remember, Gen. Landry stated that they gave the Russians "a" 304. "A" indicting pural amounts of 304's exist.) In such case then the Daedalus is a 303 making her Prometheus's sistership as Carter said(which I do not believe to be the case)which makes the Odyssey the first of her class. I believe that this article should reflect the name given to the Odyssey and rename it's title Daedalus class Deep space carrier. Tegalans 17:52, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
I believe Tegalans is right. There is undeniable proof that the Daedalus class series are Deep space carriers and not battlecruisers. 1st: the show designates the Odyssey as a Deep Spae Carrier. The show is right no matter what it has said in the past, for the present is what matters.Shows change and have plotholes. 2nd:Gateworld.net has an article stating that the three daedalus class ships are Deep space carriers. They get their information directly from the people who work on the show.
This relies on Wikipedia being capable of doing it and having a Wiki editor who knows how to do this. Is it possible to use a format where white text is presented on a white background and you highlight the section to read the spoiler material? Alyeska 03:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Sample text in white so it can't be seen without higlighting, though the hyperlinks still show |
I was trying to create a compromise on the issue rather then an outright yes or no. Alyeska 16:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Looks like we've got a multi-user edit war going on now with uninformative edit summaries. Would someone on the deletion side please explain here on talk: why it's so abhorrent to have this particular tidbit of information present in the article? Wikipedia contains spoilers, there are other spoilers present in many other Stargate articles that haven't sparked this sort of response. And Wikipedia contains non-"canon" information too, this information is cited and verifiable so I don't see a problem on that end either. What's going on? Bryan 16:49, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Darth Vader is really Like Skywalkers father! |
Bloody hell, I copied the damn example above me and it won't work. Alyeska 16:57, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Xornok, I agree with you on the use of spoilers and I couldn't find where it mentions, on gateworld, that kvasir is the ship's engineer. All I could find is that kvasir is helping to repair the systems, and if we infer that helping to repair the odyssey makes him the engineer then we must use the evidence that he did come into battle with his own ship to neget that possibality. If there is proof then it should be stated that kvasir is the odyssey's engineer for gateworld gets their information directly from the source. Tegalans 16:58, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Please, leave Kvasir out of this. He's not the problem here. About the spoilers. As I said before, it's NOT speculation, it's reporting information from a reliable source that a) is CLEARLY labeled as spoiler b) it's source is clearly stated and c) its status is also clearly stated which means 1) people who don't want to read spoilers can easily avoid them and 2) those who choose to read them, are perfectly informed of their nature. Spoilers have been used in lots of other articles, both Stargate and not like, for example, the lists of episodes and several character profiles, and it's the first time I see people having a problem with clearly labeled spoilers. The warnings are big enough to make avoiding them easy. I think the big warnings are the clearly stated status of the information is a good enough compromise between those spoiler-phobic and those who like to read spoilers. -- Andromeda 13:45, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
The problem is how the spoilers are shown in the thread. Indicating in the ship list which ship is destroyed and which isn't is a spoiler without warning. Alyeska 23:55, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Saw this on RfC: under no circumstances should we begin to fiddle around with white-on-white. Or rather, this should be a policy proposal and not done to a particular article for particular reasons. Is the material notable? If so, include it and let it be marked the usual way, if it is not vital to the article and a really huge spoiler which would just be too bad to let out (and it is already out there in the eather for those who want it), don't include it. Lundse 02:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Are you two done with the pissing contest? Your both acting rather childish. Alyeska 00:48, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
there, i think thats a fair compromise - Xornok 18:21, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Speaking as the person who initially crusaded against the changing of the Korolev's status to destroyed based one one spoiler, i think there is now sufficient information to say the Korolev was destroyed in action, both Major Marks and Colonel Emmerson appear to be in at least 4 episodes this season, not including the opening two parter. Perhaps it's time we remove update hte status to reflect this, or at least, remove the speculative comments from the spoilers and leave them as pure spoilers.
My initial comment about Season 10 was that it only had a 12 month old spoiler for the opening of season 10 with a throwaway line about the Odyssey facing down the Lucian Alliance. Now if you read recent reviews posted, after production has been finished, we see that Emmerson and the Odyssey take a much larger role in the episodes that follow. Obviously showing that Odyssey wasn't destroyed with sufficient evidence to prove it. - 59.167.33.205 03:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok. I couldn't find any reference to a second battle at P3Y-299 so why is it referred to as the first battle? I checked Gateworld and such and found nothing. Why not just call it "The battle of P3Y-229"?
Also, I am in favor of changing the page name from Daedalus class battlecruiser to Daedalus class Carrier as it is NOT a battlecruiser but a carrier, the USS Odyssey patch says "Deep Space Carrier" on it and since it's identical to the Daedalus, I'd say all of them a DSC's. What ever happend to this issue?
Faris,
Because, for all we know, there's going to be another battle at P3Y-229. It makes sense to leave the comment as specific as possible until we know for sure. Dont forget the Odyseey and Lucian Alliance ships survived the battle. AND the Orii Supergate isnt going anywhere... - 59.167.19.238 00:18, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
It's more of a continuation of the battle since the shown ended. The next season will pick up where Crusades left.
They had to retreat, teh gate is still intact, when they get around to it they're going to have to attack the gate again, hence there will likely be a "second" battle. - 59.167.47.235 01:39, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Thats unknown currently so it's just speculation MarineCorps 01:54, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Exactly, we dont know if that will be the only fight, so until we confirm that it was the only battle, the "First" qualifier remains. - 59.167.47.235 14:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Please see Template_talk:Spoiler#CSS_class_good_solution_to_complaints. Armedblowfish 21:00, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Policy is explicitly clear here. Please read the last paragraph of Wikipedia:Spoiler warning under the heading "Unacceptable alternatives". AlistairMcMillan 01:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Find an alternate means to hide the text from immediate view. For someone browsing the article, the spoilers are not located on the bottom of the article and in an attempt to get other information and avoid spoilers, they wouldn't. The current setup works well enough because it hides it from casual view but lets people still read it. As of yet I haven't heard of a SINGLE complaint about people not being able to read the material by highlighting. Alyeska 02:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Done. Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Media, art and literature AlistairMcMillan 02:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
I don't get it, why hide it from immediate view? What possible point could hat serve except to irritate a reader trying to find info? And it doesn't matter if you haven't heard a complaint about it. If there's a vandal, and no one complains about him, does he still have the right to break policy and vandalize? No! The same applies here. American Patriot 1776 03:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
How do you even know that people are reading this content with a white background? AlistairMcMillan 03:11, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Can we all at least agree that removing the information entirely is unwarranted? The sources provided for it are reputable and the information is properly qualified as being based on casting information, and Wikipedia does contain spoilers. Bryan 18:23, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Has the dispute of white on white text been resolved? It's quite clearly not acceptable on WP:SPOILER. If so, please remove from RfC. Thanks. Tyrenius 16:52, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Daedalus-class vessels, at least the Daedalus, are armed with weapons that Caldwell has called 'Mark Eight Tacticals'. (Ref: SGA Siege Part III) Why is this marked as Mark VI here? Jordan.Kreiger 04:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps it would be best to remove that column from the ship chart, and thus stop the reverts that have been going on for some time now. Hermiod is the only Asgard known to be attached to a particular ship; has it been stated that each ship carries an Asgard engineer, or might the Daedalus be an isolated incident? If so, then this column is extraneous. ···Q Huntster (T) • @ • (C) 05:11, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, just remove the column because it was stated in I believe it was "The Intruder" that Dr. McKay explained to sheppard that they needed Hermoid because "Intergalactic hyperdrive is fairly new to us".
Faris b 06:47, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. But for the sake of accuracy, I've added a note on the Daedalus section of the article stating that it has an Asgard engineer onboard for the sole reason of operating the intergalactic hyperdrive. Is this addition ok? Feel free to rework it if need be.
One more thing. I think the reason that Kvasir keeps being added back is because about 90% of those edits were by unregistered users who probably don't check the edit history. I even sent one of them a personal message stating that Kvasir was not the engineer and they wrote back to me and said "Kvasir was not the engineer, Vasir was". Can you believe it? -- Faris b 02:11, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I'm sure we all remember how a lot of people were going on and on about how it was the Korolev that survived because key people were onboard and the Odyssey was destroyed because no one in a pivotal role was on it.
Ok, no offense to anyone but..
HOW COULD ANYONE THINK THAT? One look at the track record of the Russians and you'll see that their things are destroyed, their teams are all killed usually how could anyone think they'd get to keep a ship on this show? Obviously, their first (and most likely the only) ship will surely be destroyed. We all know how the SG-1 team has more lives than a cat and combined with the fact that the Russians always get screwed on the show, how could anyone think they'd get to keep the only ship in the Milky Way galaxy? Anyone have any thoughts on how people came to this conclusion? I knew immediately it was the Odyssey that survived (not because I read the spoilers) but because I knew what happens with the Russians on Stargate.
Faris b 07:50, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
That's what I mean. So how could so many people think that the Korolev suvived especially seeing how the SG-1 members have cheated death in the past, why should this time have been different in their opinions? I mean, I was surprised when everyone after Camelot aired were saying "Oh, the Korolev survived because Daniel and Mitchell were onboard".
Faris b 19:53, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
It stretched the realms of reason to assume both characters somehow managed a miricle and left the ship in time. It might have been interesting to have to only ship in the Milky Way under Russian control, but I imagine that's not a viewpoint that would be terribly popular. No Way Back 21:23, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Because, and mistakenly enough, some of us thought that when the writers said they would "shake things up" they may have changed the status quo when it comes to space-combat superiority between Earth nations, which would have made for interesting stories in the future. Also, teh simple fact was, we DIDNT know which ship was destroyed, simply put, and this is an encyclopedia of fact, not conjecture or anticipation. - 59.167.1.77 13:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I saw under the history section of the Daedalus, that with the ZPM, it's speed was 1215 LY per min. Where did this figure come from? That would mean that Pegasus is 7 million LY from the Milky Way. Has this been stated somewhere?
Faris b 04:12, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Pegasus is a real galaxy in this universe, only problem is there are two of them, so we can't say where the galaxy is for definite. Is there a cite for the 1215 lY/min? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else. No Way Back 13:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, I already know, I did a search for it on here. But both Pegasus galaxies are not even close to 7 Mil LY. One of them is 2.5 Mil LY and the other is 3.5 Mil LY not even close.
Faris b 19:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok I think I found an accurate way to get the true size of the Daedalus. http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/zocalo/sga_2x06/sga-2x06-449.jpg That pic shows a few blue rectangles which appear to be windows at the bow (front) of the ship and there are people visible (average height is around 5'8" or so), so using this, I managed to get 118 ft or 35 m for the front of the Daedalus's height, the back end of the ship is bigger but I haven't worked on that yet. Can this be used as a serious way to measure the Daedalus's size? I can also work it to work for length as well? Because I don't want to do all this work and then have it be reverted. If anyone else wants to work on this as well, they may do so.
Faris b 21:08, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it's from an ep. It's from "Trinity" when the Daedalus was protecting the jumper to go through the orbital gate when the weapon was firing everywhere. I also believe there is another episode shot of this. In "Flesh and Blood", when the Odyssey came to scoop up Carter in the fighter bay, she seemed to be about the same size (compared to the USAF letters which I double checked the size of compared to people) as what I got in the "Trinity" pic.
-- Faris b 23:49, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
You have no way of knowing how far Carter was from the side of the ship, so an accurate comparison to the size of the decals is impossible. I've just checked my copy of Trinity and this pic appears very similar to the scene there, but I'm not convinced they are the same. In every frame in the episode that the picture could have come from, there appears to have been weapons fire visible from behind the ship. It also appears that the Sci-fi singage has eihter been removed or cropped out of the picture, so I don't think we could use it anyway. No Way Back 11:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I missed your message and didn't check until today.
Anyway, I'm not a new member who doesn't know anything, I wouldn't use fake images, that site, www.thescifiworld.net does have a lot of fan CG artwork and wallpapers but I'm sure this is from the screenshot section.
Here http://www.thescifiworld.net/zocalo_images_sga2x06_05.htm
I also compared it to a small scale pic from www.stargatecaps.com and it was pretty much a match when I shrank the image. Anyway, I never noticed that the scifi logo was missing but you're right but it's possible to remove those things nowadays.
Incase you all decide my work is acceptable for use here is what I came up with
Length 1416 ft = 431.60 meters
Width 615 ft = 187.45 meters
Height 210 ft = 64.01 meters
I used the Odyssey blueprints from the Stargate magazine for reference.
You may need to check my measurements in meters because I'm not good with the metric stuff but my stuff in Imperial units is correct based on what I came up with.
-- Faris b 23:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm all for accuracy, but since we have no actual proof of the specs, can I replace the current ones with the ones I came up with? I mean, if we have unproven data from an unknown source, wouldn't it be better to have data that is more likely to be correct?
-- Faris b 20:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Okay, someone please confirm whether or not a dash is permitted between Name and class, aka, is it Daedalus-class or Daedalus class? I'm seeing it both ways, and haven't noticed a concensus on this issue when there should be one. Based on the whole of the 'pedia, it looks like not is the verdict, but, thoughts? -- Huntster T • @ • C 04:01, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm guessing that without the dash would be better.
-- Faris b 04:15, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I heard that there will be more Deep space carriers in service later on in season 10, is that true?
Also, why aren't other countries building their own ships? They supposedly got the plans for at least something like the Prometheus as stated in season 6.
Faris b 03:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Russia has the plans for the 303, yes, but the 303 has already been discontinued in favor of the Daedalus, and Russia didn't possess the facilities to build their own Prometheus class vessels even when it was still not obsolete. JBK405 03:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah but then why did they want the plans if they couldn't even build them? Not to mention the fact that they never even made the seemingly mass-produced F-302.
I'm thinking if we see more ships they'll probably be other countries' ships because the Korolev was supposed to be the 3rd US Deep Space Carrier and it was still a year away from completion so they're starting on the 4th one from scratch no doubt so it'll be a while unless the show is introducing ships that belong to other nations.
Faris b 03:14, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
And just what is this Deep Space Carrier? Its been called a Battlecruiser in dialogue. End of story. Alyeska 03:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
I consider them Deep Space Carriers because that was written and clearly visible on the Odyssey patches and their insignia, although it wasn't written on the Daedalus anywhere, my explanation is that since it was the prototype for it's class it wasn't officially called a Deep space carrier, "battlecruiser" is pretty much an umbrella term on the show it seems, they call anything Earth-built a battlecruiser, until I see WRITTEN evidence to the contrary I will know them as Deep space carriers. We'll see in season 10 if they have anymore ships what they're called, I'm thinking it'll be Deep Space Carrier like the Odyssey if it's a US built ship.
Faris b 04:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
The ship is used for the exact same missions as the Prometheus. The Prometheus is a Battlecruiser. The Daedalus has been called a Battlecruiser and conducts the same missions. Deep Space Carrier is a worthless description and its not been actively used. Alyeska 04:17, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
It comes down to this: You can personally call it Deep Space Carrier (or whatever) if you want, but please don't use that term on Wikipedia. This issue has been well beaten into the ground. -- Huntster T • @ • C 04:54, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry but I'm not going to call it something I believe is a big mistake on here.
Here is how I see it, things that are shown on screen are usually taken as the truth, take the spelling of Naqahdah for example, for YEARS everyone said it was spelled "naqua" but eventually the true spelling that was shown on screen became known as the correct one, as far as I know, I was the only one to spell it correctly (No, I'm not trying to say I was the one who made that happen) before anyone else finally started to pick up the correct spelling when that screenshot started to be more widely known so why isn't it the same here? Why is something that is spoken being taken as the truth when we have written, factual evidence of the term Deep Space Carrier? Would it make a difference to you all if it had a simmilar thing on the Daedalus patches as well? What happens if there is a 4th ship and it also bears "Deep Space Carrier" in some way or another?
Also, the Ori ships were never called battlecruisers but that's what they're called on Wiki, they've used the term "Ori Vessel" and "Ori ship" but the only true name for them, at least from the peasants of the Ori galaxy is Starcraft yet we don't call them "Ori Starcraft" so this is why I am saying that the use of the term "Battlecruiser" is a little bit of an umbrella term.
Faris b 06:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, I took a look back at the discussions above and it was a majority vote that the page should be renamed Daedalus Class Deep space carrier so why is it that you are claiming that it was the other way around? Or is it that the people in charge just like the name "battlecruiser" better and are refusing to let anyone change it? Unless there is another discussion that I'm missing the majority vote is to change the name to Daedalus class deep space carrier.
Faris b 06:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Naqueda is a red herring. There was no dialogue to contradict the spelling in universe. The Daedalus class has been called a Battlecruiser by McKay, someone who knew a lot about its construction. It was considered the sister ship to the Prometheus at one point. It conducts the exact same missions as the Prometheus. You have but a single incident with the DSC while I have overwhelming weight of evidence as to the ship being a Battlecruiser. Alyeska 15:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
If by 'overwhelming' you mean one throw away line from Everret, I'd say you have a penchant for hyperbole :) Check every other episode, ever. I think you'll find that there isn't any other reference to Battlecruiser (nor were the 304's ever reffered to as 'BC'). I beleive the Prometheus was reffered to as a defensive weapons platform more often than Battlecriuser:
CARTER: Prometheus was designed primarily for defensive purposes. Memtento Transcript
Gateworld entry mentioning it's status as a defensive platorm for Earth
Niether of these are obviously roles of a Battlecriuser. Did you also notice that the Prometheus was only ever sent on one attack mission? For the majority of season eight, the ship was in fact in Earth orbit defending the planet, it was only ever sent out during the events of Ethon (and maybe, 'Unatural Selection' although this is mearly used as transport) on an attack mission.
So the Prometheus was never very Battlecriuser-esque to begin with. This is where your logic in connecting the 303 and the 304 gets a little fuzzy, since (in past arguments on this talk page)you link them via the 'BC' prefix on the registry. The 304 has never been linked with this term and the two series of ships must be fundamentally different both in design and purpose for a change of production number. The Odessey has only been sent out on missions so far because it is the only ship remaining for Earth to use, perhaps if the Prometheus was still around it would get used more often, but it's not.
DSC has two reference point on SG1. The first is obviously the mission patches worn by each Odessey mission patch and the second here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v351/the_timmsv2/sg1cap.gif
Two different departments using the same information? I could see you're point if it was just one or the other, but two implies that someone sat down and thought about this rather than an artist taking a little creative liscencing.
Back to the BC issue, it's never been canonically stated that BC even stands for Battlecriuser. You cannot assume it does because Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and therefore needs reference. Everything I have said here, I have backed up, you cannot deny there is at the very least enough evidence to warrent more than a passing reference to this term. No Way Back 01:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Never canonicaly called a BC? When the BC303 first got mentioned it was called BC303, BC, and Battlecruiser multiple times by various people including a general in charge of the program. A colonel calling the Daedalus a BC and having McKay near by who is known to correct people for mistakes (McKay knew enough of the Daedalus to know how much the Asgard helped out and knew its systems pretty quick) didn't say a word. The patches ultimately don't mean a lot because it doesn't necessarily contradict Battlecruiser. It can easily have a different meaning. We know the ship is a Battlecruiser from dialogue and we have a nebulous designation with no real meaning behind it. Alyeska 01:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
The 303 was called BC, yes. But it's never been linked with the 304, nor has it ever been shown that BC stands for Battlecriser. McKay not correcting him is a fairly weak defence too, since there were numerous more important things happening (like the city on self-destruct) when the stakes are so high, McKay has demonstrated an ability to focus on a task before. No Way Back 15:21, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? When the BC303 designation was first given, we hear several people use the term BC303 and Battlecruiser interchangably, including the general in charge of the project. BC was directly tied to Battlecruiser canonicaly. Alyeska 00:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I know the Asgard have a policy of not putting any weapons on any Earth ships but why not retrofit something from an Al'kesh or Ha'tak, surely they could have gotten their hands on one of the Ha'taks after the battle with the replicators or at least have a team study their design or something like that, why not ask the Free Jaffa Nation to let a team study the weapons on a Ha'tak, it obviously woudln't risk their security because they have way more ships than Earth probably ever will and the fact that Earth wouldn't dream of attacking them like that, they have no problem letting SG personnel onboard them if need be so why not?
I'm tired of this, why are the writers are afraid to make Earth ships too powerful or at least more effective than targets with great shields? The missiles are limited and the railguns, while they do pass thru shields (this WAS stated because of the fact that they travel at Mach 5, the same reason that SG-1 could run thru shields in "Upgrades"), they aren't very effective unless you hit something like a fighter bay
Or is it a power thing? Like the reason that the Asgard hyperdrive and shields are only being powered at 25% of their max output? I got these figures from the Daedalus taking 4 days to get from Earth to Atlantis with the ZPM which can give full power and it taking 18 (YES, I am one of those who think it's 18 not 20 days) to travel from Earth to Atlantis which is just a little over 4x the amount of time it takes to go without the ZPM and the same reason the shields give out so easily under constant fire. So I guess weapons fire would do little good at 25% yield? But didn't they say in "There But For The Grace Of God" that the weapons of a Ha'tak are as powerful as 200 Megaton warheads? So at 25% that would be 50 Megatons so I don't see power being a problem especially because the Goa'uld systems use Naqahdah generators but Asgard systems use Neutrino Ion generators (Mentioned in "Nemesis").
Faris b 06:49, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
The result of the debate was no move. -- tariqabjotu 00:31, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Daedalus class battlecruiser → Daedalus class (Stargate) – Hopefully this should settle the dispute over page name.
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
Add any additional comments
There is absolutely no reason to move this page. The ship has been called in Dialogue a Battlecruiser pure and simple. Alyeska 15:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
(1) Wait a second, how is "Daedalus class (Stargate)" in the least bit ambiguous? It is obviously a ship, and its obviously from Stargate, thus removing ambiguity (and if it is ambiguous, then Prometheus needs to be renamed to something else as well). I would *only* support a move to "Daedalus class (Stargate)", and only then because it fits better with Prometheus' entry, and because I believe all things Stargate related should be tagged with "Stargate" instead of just the name to avoid any confusion (as should any television, film, etc material). (2) Now, in terms of the battlecruiser debate, I believe spoken dialogue outweighs visuals, since we know that the special effects department does not always do a good job of keeping with continuity. Not to say that scriptwriters are perfect, but dialogue is typically taken, in my experience, as a matter of fact. This begs the question (as I don't remember it being mentioned), has it ever been verbally described as a Deep Space Carrier, and even then, how many times compared with it being called Battlecruiser? -- Huntster T • @ • C 19:20, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok, you're obviously not thinking in accordance with Wiki's NPOV rule. These articles are as much for people familiar with the show as they are for people learning about the show, to someone familiar with it, "Daedalus class" would signify the ship, but to someone unfamiliar with the show, it wouldn't make sense. That is how I see it. I mean, if I didn't know much about the show and I searched "Daedalus" and found "Daedalus class (Stargate)" it wouldn't seem like it's a ship to me, don't ask why, that's just how I think but if I saw "Daedalus class ship (Stargate)" it would make sense. Personally,
Also, Alyeska, what is your deal with insisting that it be kept as "battlecruiser"? Are you not reading what I'm saying about the show calling EVERY Earth-built ship a "battlecruiser"? Do you think every SG team is told the whole specs on the ships? To them, anything's a battlecruiser, just like most people see someone in the military and think of them as an "Army guy" when they know the Army isn't the only branch, I see it as the same way with the term "Battlecruiser", just because it's been stated on the show, doesn't mean it's correct. Do you have ANY other reason aside from the fact that it was spoken onscreen? If not, I think that you are just liking the name "battlecruiser" better and just don't want it to be changed for some reason I have no idea what it is. And why is that your sole argument? I can think of at least a couple of reasons why Deep Space Carrier is the correct name other than the fact that it was shown in the background.
Faris b 23:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Your mentioning NPOV is a red herring. It has absolutely nothing to do with the article. Why do I insist on it being called a Battlecruiser? Lets see. The Prometheus was called a Battlecruiser and was even designated as a BC. The Daedalus originaly started out as the Prometheus's sister ship and was going to be a BC. McKay was very knowledgeable in the construction of the Daedalus because he knew the Asgard were helping out alot. He called the Daedalus a Battlecruiser. This is a LOT of evidence in support of Battlecruiser. Your position relies on a SINGLE piece of information from a single episode. Weight of evidence supports Battlecruiser. I don't mind a comment being made in the article about DSC, but for the moment we don't have much information to indicate the classification has changed as of yet.
Alyeska 00:07, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
__
Everett is a military man and would not make the mistake of calling a Carrier a Battlecruiser because of ignorance over classification. He has been thoroughly briefed, and a thorough briefing would include something as basic as general information about the sole hope for saving Atlantis, so he wouldn't have simply assumed because he'd never been told the ships true title.
This particular quote has probably been hashed and rehashed, but I still think it speaks pretty plainly. The Daedalus has been identified as a Battlecruiser and, as such, it makes sense that the page be titled as such. JBK405 00:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Good point but I have a counter-point:
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sg1/s8/819/ninie/html/Moebius1x0001.html
Take a good look at that pic. Notice anything? It's a Prometheus class ship! Sure it was called "The Daedalus" but it seems originally the Daedalus was to be PROMETHEUS class then it was changed to an entirely new class probably just to be different as the creators so like to do between the shows.
Differences:
*1. It has that "ring" like thing on the aft tower like the Prometheus and the Daedalus clearly doesn't have it.
*2. It has a fatter front bit while the Daedalus is overall slimmer.
*3. It only has 2 rear engines like the Prometheus instead of about 8 on the Daedalus.
*4. It's fighter bays are slimmer like on the Prometheus and we all know the Daedalus has double the carrying capacity of the Prometheus because the bays are twice as large.
Thus, it's a writing mistake because the Daedalus was ORIGINALLY supposed to be a PROMETHEUS class ship but before they made the 3rd part for "The Seige" it was changed to a new class so SGA could have it's "own" ship in most ways.
So that was a mistake made before the Daedalus was actually shown, therefore, if between seasons, the ship class was completely changed, it's designation most likely changed as well but it was never commented on.
Also, isn't it possible the Daedalus wasn't assigned the title of DSC because it's the first of it's class, like a prototype ship of it's class so the next in line was named DSC, if the Korolev survived for more than 1 ep or was in the hands of the Americans, I believed it would have been a DSC.
And what does the Daedalus primarliy do?
Ferry supplies between Earth and Atlantis, sounds like a Deep Space Carrier to me. It doubles as a battlecruiser of sorts when it goes up against the Wraith but it doesn't do well, that was even stated by Caldwell just last week thus it's design was a carrier, not a battlecruiser. It seems the show always refer to them as 304's so unfortunately that doesn't help us with the battlecruiser vs. DSC argument.
Faris b 01:26, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Are you trying to talk people to death? The Daedalus got called a BC in dialogue by a military person who is briefed on the ship and someone knowledgable in its construction who is known to correct people did NOT correct him. You have a SINGLE piece of evidence that the Daedalus is a DSC. We have dialogue and past history. Alyeska 01:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
A well-written counter-point (Including visual aids, which people so often forget to show despite their claims of possession), and it certainly does look like that picture is of a Prometheus rather than Daedalus class, but we're still at a crossroads of implication and presentation. It certainly does appear that they originally intended the Daedalus to be a Prometheus class (Supported by McKay's statement that it was the P's sister ship), but regardless of their intentions, they changed it to a new class without any official in-show change. Sure, I'll bite that the writers changed their minds, but until it is commented upon within the show (Maybe something like "Ever since we changed over from the Battlecruiser to the Carrier design with the Daedalus, we've seen...") it hasn't happened within the shows universe, and the pre-change dialogue is still supposed to be dead on.
Also, why would its status as a prototype effect its title? I mean, I know how that would effect its title, but why would it effect its title like that? Why would it be called a Battlecruiser instead of a DSC just because it was the first? If it was a prototype name I would have thought that would be "Daedalus class Experimental Battlecruiser/DSC" (Or something along those lines), reflecting its status both as a prototype and its role. Besides, even if that's accurate and it's planned for future ships to be called DSC's, that hasn't happened yet and right now it's conjecture (Your own words: "if the Korolev survived for more than 1 ep or was in the hands of the Americans, I believed it would have been a DSC.")
In addition, I've actually taken issue with Caldwell's statement from Sateda. True, the Daedalus has suffered rather extreme damage at the hands of the Wraith, but the Wraith have taken quite a bit more. The Daedalus has taken down three hive ships singlehandedly, damaged others, and survived in combat against many more. I think its actions are actually quite suited to a BC, since it's done rather well considering it's almost always outnumbered and outgunned. However, even that's not very relevant to this discussion, it's performance is a moot point. Regardless of how well it does in battle, it was designed for battle, built for battle, and used for battle. Naval Battleships are still called as such, even in todays age when they are largely rendered ineffective due to aircraft, submarines, and long-range missiles. Perhaps the SGC will change their name to DSC because of its lack of success as a BC, but until they do that's still its title. JBK405 01:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
I find the notion that we should move it because Everett might be wrong to be absurd. It was stated on-screen, and until it is disproven on screen, it is a battlecruiser. I'm also quite certain that he would have been briefed on someting like that. That would be like saying, we can't say the Stargate is made of Naquahah because it might be wrong! We can only go on what is said, and until someone says that the Daedalus is not a battlecruiser and is indeed a Deep Space Carrier, then the article should remain here. American Patriot 1776 21:58, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm not saying Everett made a mistake, I'm saying the writers goofed up by originally having it be a battlecruiser but on a whim, they decided to change it to a DSC before season 2 started, so the information about the Daedalus being a battelcruiser WAS correct until they decided to make the ship look different, therefore, as of season 2+ of Atlantis and season 9+ of SG-1 the term DSC would be correct by this logic then.
Basically, they are both correct terms, but the BC term WAS correct and the term DSC is currently correct.
Faris b 00:07, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
But you've yet to give any support for that statement. An interview with a writer, commentary on an episode, etc. Until you get somebody actually saying that it is a DSC, it's still just conjecture. JBK405 00:46, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
No, Faris, what you are proposing is based upon "selective hearing"... In other words, as someone said above, you are ignoring the mound of evidence for Battlecruiser and latching on to the single bit that said Deep Space Cruiser. And as I mentioned above, I don't recall the term DSC actually being spoken in an episode (please correct me if I'm wrong). Spoken dialogue always takes precidence over visuals: again, scriptwriters and editors normally have a much higher degree of fact-checking than the folks in graphics do (in fact, graphics are usually outsourced to a separate company...one can simply look to Star Trek series to see the number of times their outsourced starship models and graphics got screwed up because of a lack of communication or misunderstanding between producer and design company).
Simply put, graphics are in every way secondary to script. -- Huntster T • @ • C 00:48, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
No, I never said I'm ignoring the evidence it being a battlecruiser but I'm talking about things proven on the show, the fact that the Daedalus ferries supplies, does not do that well against hives and yes, my favorite, the Odyssey insignia but you can't deny that the show generalizes the terms for ships, right?
Yes, you’re right, they never called it a DSC-304 but they never called it a BC-304 either, they always selectively call it a 304, nothing else. If they DO call it a BC-304, I will no longer pursue this but it hasn't happened.
So what happens if another Daedalus class ship appears and also says Deep Space Carrier somewhere on it as well? Will this page be renamed or will it be ignored again? I understand your viewpoint, it was only on 1 out of 3 ships, but that should be 1 out of 2 because the other one (Korolev) didn't exist long enough to have been given a title.
Faris b 02:13, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Once again, its performance is irrelevent. It is not our place to judge or make a decision based upon its performance, since that would be our opinion and thus not allowed on the main page. Also, it's performed very well (Taking down three Hive-Ships singlehandedly and damaging/surviving against others), so if it was our decision I'd still vote to keep it at BC and not DSC.
Anyway, none of the ships has once been referred to as a DSC except (apparently) by props, which are significantly less important than dialogue since, as has been said, props and script often contradict one another and the scripts are of higher authenticity. Your evidence has been its performance (Which is irrelevent), and props (Which take a back seat to dialogue). I understand where you're coming from and get what you're trying to say, but the facts simply weigh in favor of the official and In-Universe classification being Battlecruiser since it has been addressed as such in dialogue. It is not our position to change its official title because we feel that it doesn't apply, since Wikipedia is meant to give the facts, not what we think the facts should be (Sorry for sounding harsh, but we've been saying the same things back and forth for a while now). JBK405 05:00, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
I havend had the patience to read all that is written in this Discusion, I only have one Argument, a rather large one, ok maybe 2. 1: The Daedalus was given this name from the greek engeneer that constructed wings for him and his son. It is also stated that the daedalus is the first ship to be designed to bridge the gap between the two galaxies where humans have settlements. Now the odyssey was called the sistership of Daedalus or a Daedalus class Ship and we could see the designation on Odyssey's emblem or whaterver that was. Combine this (Deep Space Carrier) with the name of the Class (Daedalus) and you have Daedalus class Deep Space Carrier (it carries people into deep space for the help of Atlantis). The term battlecruiser is so generic it scares me. The Daedalus class was created not to defeat the goa'uld or any other race because it was over with them so all they had to concentrate upon was going to pegasus and I think that is why Daedalus class has no energy weapons, it had no reason to, there was no rush, goa'ulds were down replicators down end of story. and another thing, A shield or anything including an energy weapon and hyperdrive is only as strong as it's energy source so that is why the daedalus was so much powerfull with the ZPM. IT all depends on how much energy you can sqeeze out of the naquadah. One last thing The battlecruiser obsesion is the same as it is with spaceship on star trek. It does not designate a class, it's just something general, Althought I have to admit it does give you a head aiche.
jameshowlett 22:41, 31 August 2006
So which is it in the image for the Battle of P3Y-229? The Korolev or the Odyssey? I always thought it was the Odyssey. Can anyone comfirm the ship positions?
Faris b 06:47, 31 August 2006 (UTC)